mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 707 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12377 times:
To me, there should be some regulation on how long an airlines can continue to delay a flight before they have to either cancel it or agree to reimburse passengers. For instance, what if somebody was going to trhe mainland for something importsnt and they couldn't afford to rebook eith another airline? It doesn't seem rihgt to me.
crj900lr From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 197 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (2 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 12259 times:
That's unfortunatly what you get with carriers like that. Pay the extra money and fly a established carrier such as a DL, UA, AA and you definatly won't have issues like this. Flight may be delayed but its not gonna be delayed 35 hours!
whatusaid From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 595 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11897 times:
Allegiant's word of mouth advertising is taking a turn for the worse. There was a time when people spoke of the deal and the nonstop service. Now, it seems as if there are more horror stories than not. Granted, the carrier has an impressive track record, but how many times can they delay flights a day or more and not expect to find prospective traffic head elsewhere? Word travels fast in smaller markets that G4 has targeted.
Their Facebook page doing more damage than serving as a marketing tool.
As much as I looked forward to their FAT-HNL flights, I wouldn't risk a vacation by flying G4. I'll pay the difference for AS or anyone else...
BTW, they're pulling down most of the HNL/smaller cities in August. All that's bookable is Bellingham and Vegas to HNL and Bellingham to OGG.
FlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 541 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11827 times:
Quoting crj900lr (Reply 2): That's unfortunatly what you get with carriers like that. Pay the extra money and fly a established carrier such as a DL, UA, AA and you definatly won't have issues like this. Flight may be delayed but its not gonna be delayed 35 hours!
Not to defend Allegiant, but wasn't there a UA flight from Shanghai (or was it Beijing?) to Newark this past summer that was delayed three days?
Or is my memory failing me again...?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 707 posts, RR: 1 Reply 5, posted (2 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11803 times:
SSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 432 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (2 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 11543 times:
Quoting crj900lr (Reply 7): I'm sure that those passengers were taken care of, they weren't given a meal voucher and told to wait 3 days.
Well, it does sound like the G4 passengers got "taken care of," too. But still it sucks for that much time to be sucked up doing nothing more than hanging out at airports and hotels, even if the out-of-pocket costs are "taken care of."
atcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 665 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10199 times:
Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 4): Not to defend Allegiant, but wasn't there a UA flight from Shanghai (or was it Beijing?) to Newark this past summer that was delayed three days?
Yes, SFO-PVG, but that was a weird situation. The aircraft diverted to ANC because all but one or two of the lavs crapped out (pun intended). They sent a replacement aircraft from SFO the next morning (approx. 12 hours later), but it had mx issues and was no-go. A third aircraft was sent within another 12-24h, but by then there weren't many spare 772s to go around, so it took longer to dispatch to ANC, and it departed to PVG without issue. UA could have handled it better, but it was just really bad luck. UAs 772 fleet has very good reliability...better than 99%.
Quoting whatusaid (Reply 3): Maybe G4 needs to stay in the lower 48?
This is a big reason WN has been so late to the party. Waiting for a substantial 738 fleet means aircraft swaps will be much less of a headache, thus avoiding the issue G4 has run into.
I think Hawaii was a good idea for G4 and is making them money, but without a large enough fleet capable of the trip to have out-of-service aircraft come into play, they really screwed themselves from the start. Bringing the 757 and now Airbus 319/320 into the fleet, they've broken the cardinal rule of the LCC/ULCC business -- don't operate more than one type, and definitely don't operate more than one manufacturer. Rules are made to be broken, but only if they're done sensibly and not all at the same time. It's too much too fast and now they're getting bitten on the ass. They're better off switching to a true hub-and-spoke with connections than what they're trying to do right now.
awacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1415 posts, RR: 1 Reply 9, posted (2 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 9808 times:
Hate to say it, but you get what you pay for with G4 and NK and WN and the like who don't interline...in WN's defense, they have a big enough route network to get you to your destination (via Timbuktu, if necessary).
luv2fly From United States of America, joined May 2003, 11957 posts, RR: 51 Reply 11, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 6550 times:
This is the problem with a carrier like G4, one that doesn't interline with other airlines. The happens with charters as well. To bad though it is the nature of the beast when you choose to fly this way.
wedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5526 posts, RR: 5 Reply 12, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4510 times:
Quoting whatusaid (Reply 3): BTW, they're pulling down most of the HNL/smaller cities in August. All that's bookable is Bellingham and Vegas to HNL and Bellingham to OGG.
If G4 is pulling down the majority of their HNL flights, there has to be something else other than 757 maintenance, like lack of enough pax traffic to support profitability. They invested a lot of money in ETOPS ops and that investment doesn't seem to be paying off.
I kind of wondered why WN hasn't pulled their trigger on HI flights. Their 73H's are ETOPS. Maybe, it's not worth the investment right now.
HA and AS must be doing a good job of blocking Hawaii out for others...than the incumbents.
penguinflies From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 975 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4206 times:
United transported the delayed passengers, refunded the fares, and offered $1000 toward future travel.
It sounds like G4 is learning quickly about ETOPS and maintenance and flight crew interaction. From the way the article was written, it sounds like one plane didn't pass an ETOPS inspection prior to departure, and two went tech. But again, it's long isolated routes with very few alternative landing sites. Professionals would be rather picky about what maintenance can be deferred and what cannot be deferred.
Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 12): Quoting whatusaid (Reply 3):
BTW, they're pulling down most of the HNL/smaller cities in August. All that's bookable is Bellingham and Vegas to HNL and Bellingham to OGG.
If G4 is pulling down the majority of their HNL flights, there has to be something else other than 757 maintenance, like lack of enough pax traffic to support profitability. They invested a lot of money in ETOPS ops and that investment doesn't seem to be paying off.
I kind of wondered why WN hasn't pulled their trigger on HI flights. Their 73H's are ETOPS. Maybe, it's not worth the investment right now.
HA and AS must be doing a good job of blocking Hawaii out for others...than the incumbents.
Hawaii is a very cyclical load factor market. Especially if your main market is the low-fare, leisure traveler. Everyone seems to travel to/from in the Summer and Winter around the holidays. In Jan-Feb and Sept-Oct, lows can be painfully low. Perfect times to update your fleet in heavy maintenance.
PMUA787 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 48 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 months 1 week 22 hours ago) and read 3807 times:
I find it quite amusing in when you click on the link to the Star Advertiser article on the G4 MX issues you see at the top a prominent ad for HA featuring their new A330's.
hawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3089 posts, RR: 9 Reply 17, posted (2 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3342 times:
Quoting PMUA787 (Reply 15):
I find it quite amusing in when you click on the link to the Star Advertiser article on the G4 MX issues you see at the top a prominent ad for HA featuring their new A330's.
Hawaiian has been a regular advertiser on the Star-Advertiser's web site for quite a while now.
Darksnowynight From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 979 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2738 times:
Quoting n7371f (Reply 16): The 757 doesn't have this kind of dispatch reliability problem at any other airline.
It most certainly does. 757s are routinely dispatched with inop APUs & other whole systems, not just parts, locked out. The difference is that at DL or UA, you will not see this as they are more often not flying an ETOPS route (which have their own set of MX standards) and are also much more easily swapped out when you have a fleet of 100 or more. DL, UA, & AA's 757s are in no better shape.
The problem for G4 isn't the reliability of the type, it's the fact that they have so few of them that a single incident can cause this type of mess.
Posting without Talent is simply Tolerated Vandalism... We are the Vandals.
That is debatable. All carriers operating the 757 start out by using a maintenance program based on the Boeing MPD. Managing the fleet using a pure Boeing MPD program is just a starting point. Most larger or more experienced carriers have added additional tasks to address specific reliability issues they are experiencing. For instance, ATA 36 (pneumatics) is particularly troublesome for most 757 operators and is the #1 delay / cancellation driver for the worldwide 757 fleet. Most larger or more experienced carriers have put programs into place to address the pneumatic system problems. While the MPD is the minimum, each carrier has the ability to customize the maintenance program to suit their needs. However each added task adds to the cost of maintaining the aircraft. Experience is what drives carriers to add the reliability driven tasks. I suspect this may be an issue of G4 still being on the steep side of the learning curve for this type.
F9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 4730 posts, RR: 30 Reply 21, posted (2 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2498 times:
I take it that the 757s they bought are lemons perhaps? I hope G4 continues Hawaii. Can an A320 make the hop? And, would it be worthwhile for G4 to keep its ETOPs for future destinations? Is G4 not looking at adding any more 757s?
HiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 605 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (2 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1808 times:
How long did G4 fly the 57's domestically before starting the ETOPS service to Hawaii? You'd think they'd have had plenty of experience with the maintenance issues of that aircraft before having the FAA sign off on their new certificate for extended-range overwater flying.
aztrainer From United States of America, joined Oct 2011, 400 posts, RR: 1 Reply 24, posted (2 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1634 times:
Quoting F9animal (Reply 21): I take it that the 757s they bought are lemons perhaps? I hope G4 continues Hawaii. Can an A320 make the hop? And, would it be worthwhile for G4 to keep its ETOPs for future destinations? Is G4 not looking at adding any more 757s?
I do not know if you could call their 757's lemons, but they are high cycle planes from Thompson Airways.
No, an A-320 cannot make it to Hawai'i due to the winds.
Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 23): How long did G4 fly the 57's domestically before starting the ETOPS service to Hawaii? You'd think they'd have had plenty of experience with the maintenance issues of that aircraft before having the FAA sign off on their new certificate for extended-range overwater flying.
I think this is more if an issue about the non-flexibility in number of planes. They only have 6 frames and if one goes technical then there is nothing that can replace it for the flight.
They received their 757's in May of 2010 and started to fly them from LAS in September 2011. November of 2012 is when they started to fly to Hawai'i, so that means that they had about a year to "break them in".
25 BasilFawlty: Thomson Airways Anyway, comparable holiday airlines from Europe are having such lengthy delays from time to time for ages and they can get away with i
26 SGAir: It continued yesterday. The HNL-SMX flight returned to HNL in the morning. G4 ferried a 757 from LAS to SMX to cover the SMX-HNL afternoon flight. HNL
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