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Boeing Nears Authority To Offer 777X  
User currently offlinesjc30l From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 59 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31697 times:

"Boeing’s board of directors is expected to decide as early as its next meeting in April whether to give the Commercial Airplanes division authority to offer the proposed 777X derivative to airlines"

http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/awx_03_11_2013_p0-557402.xml

152 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11724 posts, RR: 33
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31724 times:

I followed the ISTAT updates on Twitter. Boeing aims to have a 777-9X with 406 seats by late 2019 and a 777-8LX with 353 seats in 2021. Especially Emirates is focusing on the latter.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31693 times:

And let the speculation on launch customers begin   

Airlines I see operating this:

EK (launch) UA DL AA (MAYBE!) BA (744 replacement) CX QF CZ NH NZ and KE.

I want your opinions on those above!



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31014 posts, RR: 87
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31656 times:
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On the engine side, with the 777-200LR and 777-300ER only CX and AA were said to be hold-outs for RR power and both now operate the 777-300ER so I think Boeing could successfully just offer the GE9X on the 777X.

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11724 posts, RR: 33
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31532 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 3):
Boeing could successfully just offer the GE9X on the 777X.

   And even the A350 is selling very good with only 1 engine offer. This should not be a problem.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31014 posts, RR: 87
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31470 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
Boeing aims to have a 777-9X with 406 seats by late 2019 and a 777-8LX with 353 seats in 2021.

Looks like Boeing is sizing the 777-8 with the 777-300ER, which was the right call, IMO.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11724 posts, RR: 33
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31340 times:

There was also a 777X rendering but without folding wingtips this time.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BFFCdFkCEAELelI.jpg:large



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinecobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1014 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31300 times:

Will they use composites or will it be like A320NEO or 737 MAX?

User currently offlinesjc30l From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31307 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
I followed the ISTAT updates on Twitter. Boeing aims to have a 777-9X with 406 seats by late 2019 and a 777-8LX with 353 seats in 2021. Especially Emirates is focusing on the latter.

What routes would EK use the 8LX on? I was thinking that originally they were focused on the 9X


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11724 posts, RR: 33
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31248 times:

Quoting sjc30l (Reply 8):
What routes would EK use the 8LX on?

No idea.

Quoting sjc30l (Reply 8):
I was thinking that originally they were focused on the 9X

The 777-8LX will have a greater range (over 9000nm) and range + payload = EK.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinesjc30l From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31210 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
There was also a 777X rendering but without folding wingtips this time.

I know it's just a conceptual rendering, but it looks like there are no chevrons on the nacelles for the 777X like with the 787 and 737 MAX


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 31014 posts, RR: 87
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31212 times:
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Quoting sjc30l (Reply 8):
What routes would EK use the 8LX on?

Missions like DXB-LAX/SFO where they are significantly payload-limited on the 777-300ER. It would also allow them to up-gauge 777-200LR routes like DXB-IAH where cargo demand is high (and the 777-300ER lacks the usable payload weight even if it had plenty of volume).


User currently offlineTP313 From Portugal, joined Nov 2001, 260 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 31174 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 5):
Looks like Boeing is sizing the 777-8 with the 777-300ER, which was the right call, IMO.

Huh? Doesn't look like that to me: 353 at 10 abreast is not the same as 365 at 9 abreast

That ULH 350 seater may appeal to Emirates and a few other airlines but I'm not seeing much of a market for the -8
(although an 8-F will sell).

The -9, OTOH, will most likely be a best seller, as the ideal 744 replacement.

[Edited 2013-03-11 09:46:29]

User currently offlinesonomaflyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1809 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 30839 times:
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EK could do a mix of the -8LX and -9 in their order. The -8LXs would be ideal to IAH, DFW, LAX and SFO with SEA also as a possibility if demand picks up.

It isn't just about the range number. By fly to places below their max range, they have the chance to load more cargo on board which is a real money maker for airlines.


User currently offlineTP313 From Portugal, joined Nov 2001, 260 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 30764 times:

Quoting sonomaflyer (Reply 13):
It isn't just about the range number. By fly to places below their max range, they have the chance to load more cargo on board which is a real money maker for airlines.

That has got the 772LR nowhere...


User currently offlineKL911 From Czech Republic, joined Jul 2003, 5142 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 30761 times:

Why are they again using an old design instead of developing a new plane like Airbus does with the A330 to A350?

User currently offlinekaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12478 posts, RR: 34
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 30663 times:

Delighted to hear about the impending launch (which will no doubt allow Boeing to take the focus off the 787 for a while!), but surprised that EK would choose the 779X instead of the -8; I always had them pencilled in as a likely 779X airlines; I'd expect this to be by far the most successful of the two.

Any chance the 778LX would allow airlines to fly PER-LON nonstop?


User currently offlinesjc30l From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 59 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 30643 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):
Why are they again using an old design instead of developing a new plane like Airbus does with the A330 to A350?

I would think it has to do with the significant amount more time and (scarce) resources that would need to be devoted to an all new program vs building on an existing platform.


User currently offlinecobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1014 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 30612 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):
Why are they again using an old design instead of developing a new plane like Airbus does with the A330 to A350?

My point exactly, I assumed that also. I don't especially like A320 and 737 modifications. Maybe we need a third player to change the duopoly. Also the budget to start an airliner is 5-15 billions when we talk A or B. With all the experience in building aircraft over the decade, cost should be lower, especially when making a conventional aircraft


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2015 posts, RR: 24
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 30591 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
and a 777-8LX with 353 seats in 2021

Wow. Pitching it up directly against the A350-1000. That's confident.


User currently offlinephxa340 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 891 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 30498 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 19):

I am assuming the 1000 will do better on shorter segments and the 8X will fly further ?


User currently offlineTP313 From Portugal, joined Nov 2001, 260 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 30438 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 19):
Wow. Pitching it up directly against the A350-1000. That's confident.

If they did the -8 with 386 seats (at 10 abreast) it would have a much better chance against the 350.
This way it will suffer from the same disadvantages as shrinked designs like the 358...


User currently offlineTP313 From Portugal, joined Nov 2001, 260 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 30413 times:

Quoting phxa340 (Reply 20):
I am assuming the 1000 will do better on shorter segments and the 8X will fly further ?

You're quite right.


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6914 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 30256 times:

Quoting KL911 (Reply 15):
Why are they again using an old design instead of developing a new plane like Airbus does with the A330 to A350?

The airlines won't wait for a clean sheet design, and Boeing does not want to invest the money. Airbus was forced into the A350 by customer pressure based on PR for the 787, which I think we all (including me, one of the biggest 787 boosters) was overhyped. It is not that a clean sheet design would not be better, it is that customers, having been burned once by the 787 delays and problems, will not wait a second time and risk a similar outcome. Part of this is perhaps unfair, as hopefully the 787's teething problems will not be repeated, and a 777 replacement would go a bit smoother and more on schedule. But it is still a monstrous risk, one which the Boeing board undoubtedly does not want to take when the 777X will be adequate to maintain Boeing's lead in that market segment. Remember, the enemy of the "perfect" is the "good enough." Boeing is not in business to make the perfect airliner; they are in business to make money, and in this case they undoubtedly figure "good enough" will make more money than "perfect." All of this is assuming that the 777X will in fact be competitive with the A350-1000, which from what I have read seems to be the case.



The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineparapente From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2006, 1587 posts, RR: 10
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 30257 times:

Boeing aims to have a 777-9X with 406 seats by late 2019

To replace the 748i whose production run will have finished by then.


25 FlyingCello : If the 778X is matching the 3ER in size, then the 779X is a 748i killer. I know many on here think it is already a dead duck, but does this confirm th
26 Post contains images airproxx : I wish we could add AF/KL to the list
27 abba : I know very well that John Leahy has said that the 350 will not be stretched further than the 1000. However, when the 777x is locked in its design and
28 airproxx : So one is good on short legs, while the other is good on long journeys? Doesn't make sense to me. If you have a) payload, and b) range + payload, the
29 sonomaflyer : I think much of this is premature until the 77X design is locked and we get a handle on the numbers for some of our regular A.net contributors to cru
30 SCAT15F : I honestly think Boeing does not agree. There is a 61 passenger difference, just as large as the difference between the 77L and 77W or 779X and 778X.
31 TP313 : Because b) may be substantially heavier than a). See 772ER vs. 333
32 TP313 : I see it in the opposite way. Boeing is finally getting serious about the VLA market, building the first VLA twin: the 779X. The 779X CASM numbers ma
33 lightsaber : EK is a given assuming they have their say in the design for both the 777-8 and -9. They have markets for both. UA is a maybe. DL is certain IMHO AA.
34 usscvr : Tried & true. Not to be a naysayer, but with the issues currently facing the 787 (and any 'new' launch for that matter), stick to what you know t
35 jayunited : Why is UA a maybe for this aircraft? I think the 779x would be a great replacement for the 744 fleet and UA already said that our current A359 order
36 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : More pictures are popping up.
37 sjc30l : I haven't seen SQ mentioned yet. I know they have both A359 and 77W on order, but would the 777-8 or -9 fit in their longer term plans?
38 Post contains links and images KarelXWB :
39 PC12Fan : That's pretty much gotten it to where it is today. There aren't many airlines using the LR for what it marketed for to begin with - the 9,400nm range
40 PlanesNTrains : Airbus' first response to the 787 was to do the original A350 vs the XWB. There is plenty of anecdotal evidence that that might have been a perfectly
41 davs5032 : I feel the same way. The 779X should be very successful, and Boeing shouldn't be concerned with killing off the 748i b/c it's already dead, IMO. The
42 sonomaflyer : That fact in the end justifies the launch of this a/c. They won't garner as many orders for the -8LX as the -9 but they'll get a decent number plus i
43 nimool : First i wish they get the 787s back to service ASAP, and then start their new project. 777X would be superb! "The extended twinjet series will include
44 TWA772LR : I thought the 778X was going to be between the size of the 772LR and 773ER? And then the 779X was going to be longer than the 773ER?
45 Atlflyer : You are correct.
46 Dan23 : That should be the case but wouldn't the route already be feasible (range-wise) utilising the 777-200LR, 787-9 or A350-900?
47 sunrisevalley : The 787-10X if it comes out at 7150nm will be all NZ needs if they pull back over time to the Pacific rim. I would be interested to know the term of
48 Post contains images PHX787 : Don't they still have 744s? Or maybe they wanna replace those with A380s or (PLEASE GOD!) 748s Lightsaber thanks for your reply and your expertise! I
49 PA515 : No term mentioned in the ALC Press Release but BA are leasing their two 77W's from ALC for 10 years. PA515
50 RyanairGuru : Unlikely, unfortunately. I'd love to see it happen, but QF have been steadfast in their determination to have a 787 and 380 fleet, just as they had t
51 Post contains images airproxx : That was exactly my point! Agreed a 100%! I'm praying EVERY day for this to happen! The way LH opened about the capacity gap between B77W and A380 ha
52 airproxx : I think that a lot of long time 777 operators rushed much too quickly to a A350 order.... Hopefully the 77X will be already quiet reliable at launch,
53 Bill142 : Unless CASA changes its position on ETOPS
54 RyanairGuru : From everything I've ever heard that is IMHO unlikely, at least in the foreseeable future. That said, CASA surely can't remain 2 decades behind the r
55 goldenstate : It would be refreshing if Boeing offered the 777X with an engine that can actually stay on wing for as long as promised. However, I expect GE will on
56 Post contains images columba : Add Lufthansa to that list as well. The upcoming Swiss order for 6 777W is just a first step
57 817Dreamliiner : Regarding launch Customers, I read a tweet last night from Jon Ostrower stating that Boeing has made Conditional Offers To IAG, Emirates and Japan Air
58 Post contains images EPA001 : You have said that all along. And I agree with you that. . That sounds like a very attractive airplane for them. If they can make the numbers work of
59 BoeingVista : They certainly could, and suspect they will but should they? They asked customers and customers wanted an engine choice, the 77W is a pricey piece of
60 EPA001 : I have never heard of an A350-1200 either. I would presume that if a further stretch would be offered by Airbus, it would be logical to name it the -
61 packsonflight : It is funny that this kind of a deja vu. When Boeing, in the early days of the 787 program was touting the bleed less engines and they where so happy
62 cobra27 : I think it could be in 1-5 billion $ range. That seems reasonable. e.g. if you calculate for exapmle flight test cost for 3000 hour testing and 50 00
63 StickShaker : Agreed - if airlines don't need the ULF range of the 8X then there will be far more efficient platforms available to do the job - 359, 35J, 78J. The
64 BoeingVista : Not launched at this stage, just authority to offer. Airbus have one, its called the A350-900.
65 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : The bigger the plane the less you will sell. Look at the 787: > 800 orders, A350: > 600 orders and a 777X will probably have ~ 300 firm orders
66 USAF336TFS : They have been mentioned as being in the mix as launch customers, even on Scott Hamilton's site. Has the Swiss rumor firmed up yet?[Edited 2013-03-12
67 EPA001 : Thanks to you both for pointing this out. I misinterpreted the ATO as an official launch.
68 StickShaker : I was thinking a bit further down the track Airbus might consider a 350-1000 at 359 gross weight - ie 359 wings, main gear and engines to produce an
69 abba : How will such a 1100 or 1200 look like? And how will i compare to the 9x?
70 Post contains links PanAmPaul : Re composites and other new technologies From: Boeing Close to Approving 777X "Boeing plans to use new technologies to cut fuel consumption by as much
71 Post contains images EPA001 : Well, an A350-1100 or -1200 is at present purely speculation. So it is impossible to answer your questions at present. I am inclined to believe we wi
72 jayunited : I thnk Airbus will sell more A350-900 and 1000, I think the reason why we having seen much more movement with the A350 is because the airlines are on
73 FriendlySkies : I'm not sure what the fixation on a clean sheet design is. History shows that upgraded/enhanced models are pretty much the norm. Look at the 737. Hell
74 BoeingVista : Long... The -1000 is already 73.88m. The capacity gains would have to be made by going 10 across. The -1000 could maybe grow by 5 meters and if it go
75 Post contains links CXB77L : As I understand it, there are two versions of the 777-8: a 315t MTOW version with 88,000lbs engines, and a 777-8LX with the same MTOW as the -9X (344
76 Post contains links and images KarelXWB :
77 bikerthai : If they go with a composite fuselage, they can get weight savings and new 8000 ft cabin pressure. Perhaps they can go with GLARE and go the A380 rout
78 Stitch : If Boeing went with a CFRP fuselage, they might as well just launch Y3. It will be interesting to see if Boeing uses new Al alloys that are said to be
79 davs5032 : I remember Boeing saying at some point that they had the ability to take a few inches out of the current interior panels on the 777.
80 Post contains images FriendlySkies : A while back I think there was talk that Boeing was looking at Al-Li alloys, which are said to be lighter and stronger.
81 bikerthai : This I can see. If they stick with replacing the skin, it would require much less engineering. How easy is it to machine AL-Li? If not that easy then
82 PC9 : There is one thing I don't understand: The 777X is supposed to get a new wing with a wing span of ca. 71 m and a wing area of ca. 467 m2 (e.g. 30 m2 m
83 ncfc99 : But any given route won't have the same load factor % on both planes. The 779 has to be filled with PAX and cargo beyond the capacity of the 35J . So
84 Post contains images lightsaber : Both. And growth. I expect DL's largest plane to be the 779 a dozen years from today. They're not on my radar. I just do not have an opinion right no
85 Post contains links and images PW100 : I would be suprised if a 777X would EIS much before 2019, it would be available in meaningful numbers only in the 2020's. I would expect that Airbus
86 jayunited : Yes airlines could order the 777-300ER to fill their needs for 2018, 2019 however a lot of airlines keep their planes for at least 20 years so why pl
87 SCAT15F : I think going for a single source engine with GE would be a stupid mistake. From all indications the RB3025 is going to be the more advanced and more
88 Post contains images airtechy : I understand they are going with lithium-ion batteries, too. Jim
89 KarelXWB : A358: 60 meters in length A359: 67 meters in length A35J: 74 meters in length That would make 81 meters for a -1100 and 88 meters for a -1200. That's
90 SCAT15F : I don't know about that. More powerful engines will certainly be required, but the A35J wing is just as large in area as the proposed 777X composite
91 davs5032 : The A350 will indeed win most of the battles, I don't disagree on that basic argument. However, I think you're under valuing the ability of the 779 t
92 CXB77L : I'd imagine that nothing will be confirmed until the design has been frozen, but this rumour has been reported by several different sites already. Pe
93 StickShaker : Its an interesting point - the 350Mk1 never competed in the 77W segment and if Airbus had continued with its development then they would have been in
94 sunrisevalley : Probably true but for a competent fleet planning group this sort of rhetoric is probably greeted with a big yawn. Only A.netters and the press pay an
95 ferpe : John Leahy will have more then a ball, he will have some serious competition . The 777X engines will be around 5% more effective then the A350-1000 T
96 817Dreamliiner : Well, its projected to have a wider cabin than the current 777 series so I dont see why some airlines wont go for it.
97 parapente : Does size matter? Of course the bigger the aircraft (for a given range) the "cheaper" it appears to fly pax. But this always,always assumes the same t
98 Post contains images PW100 : Not quite. Also the fleet planning group will understand the rhetoric and have good laugh. But I agree they'll be primarily concerned about the numbe
99 Stitch : A major decision point, IMO, will be how economical a 10-abreast 777-9 is compared to a 9-abreast A350-1000. I don't believe Economy Class comfort is
100 ncfc99 : Wasn't there a thread a few months ago about the 777X RFP for engines stating a 10% improvement over the GE90? If my memory is correct on that, the e
101 ferpe : Yes there was, the GE9X should be 10% more effective then the GE90. The GE90 is around 0.55 lbm/hr/lbf installed means the GE9X is around 0.49. The T
102 SCAT15F : The RB3025 is supposed to be 2% more efficient than the GE9X, or 12% more efficient than the GE90 and 7% more efficient than the Trent XWB.
103 Post contains images ferpe : Yup, and they all work better on ppt then in real life . Of course the RR thing is better on spec, why would Boeing otherwise change the monopoly. I
104 StickShaker : The Boeing 787 "clean sheet design" marketing campaign from 2004-6 was so successful that it convinced airlines to put immense pressure on Airbus to
105 BoeingVista : Carbon fibre fan should take a tonne of the weight of the TXWB. Nothing will incentivize RR to push technology over to the TXWB and A350 program like
106 CXB77L : I disagree that there is no market. The lack of sales for the 747-8i isn't an indication of a lack of market, but it's an indication of how much airl
107 abba : Well - if there were a market it would have been selling.... That is pretty much an analytical statement. However, Ferpe, does it make sense to compa
108 parapente : Quoting CXB77L (Reply 106): The lack of sales for the 747-8i isn't an indication of a lack of market Well - if there were a market it would have been
109 AngMoh : I think the 77W has proven 2 points: 1) If you can choose a bigger plane with lower cost per passenger, you take the bigger plane (77L vs 77W) 2) If
110 Stitch : If you have two aircraft models with "identical" trip costs, you'd be foolish to not take the larger of the two since those extra seats generate a fi
111 ferpe : Leeham now announces that RR is out of 777X, so it will be the Boeing-GE team vs Airbus-RR for the 350-400 segment going forward (the TXWB is exclusiv
112 Stitch : Not a real surprise considering the most logical customers for the 777X are those flying the 777-200LR and 777-300ER and they all have GE engines unde
113 Post contains images bmacleod : I wouldn't count out AC .
114 Post contains links KarelXWB : Boeing press release: Boeing Selects GE as Engine Partner for 777X Studies
115 Post contains links and images ferpe : This is what a payload range chart could look like based on the info we have so far. The 777X and 35J are very close, so close that the fact that they
116 KarelXWB : How must I read that chart, the 748i can fly the furthest with full load?
117 ferpe : Yes, but as always this is a spec OEW chart vs the limits for max payload (MZFW) and payload-range (the first part of the right sloping curve. That s
118 KarelXWB : Ok, that's interesting. I have 2 questions: - According wikipedia the "maximum structural payload" of the 747-8i is 76,700 kg. Where did you find the
119 Post contains images ferpe : This is a comparison of their capability in 2017-2020 I have therefore taken the fully mature empty weight of the 748i (485300lb or 214t), the MZFW i
120 Stitch : In the January 2012 747-8 ACAP, Maximum Structural Payload was given as 82.1t (181,000lb). However, Boeing subsequently pulled those numbers and the
121 Post contains images KarelXWB : Smart Now I understand it, thank you. So now we know that the 777X and the A35J will be very close to each other, but what about total trip cost? If
122 ferpe : Yes, it shows an OEW of 220t, they have also spread the info they are chasing another 5t OEW, that is why I use my numbers for a frame delivered 2019
123 Post contains images ferpe : I avoid cost per passenger as it involves the cabin layout rat race, I therefore give the fuel burn per m2 and 1000nm in the chart, it is fairer (tho
124 Post contains images JamBrain : It would be interesting if you drew that payload range chart normalised for the m2 floor area and even better if you could plot the fuel burn / m2 /
125 seabosdca : What's kind of amazing about that chart is just how much it looks like a chart comparing the 747-400 with the 777-300ER. History repeats itself.
126 Post contains images SCAT15F : I believe that figure will be significantly less, as Boeing are taking at least 5000 lb more out of OEW than the 5000 they have already taken out. It
127 ferpe : I don't quite understand how I should make it, please give me more ideas. You are right in that the fuel burn figures does have a weakness, they are
128 astuteman : Although I'd expect the TXWB to have moved on a bit by then.... rgds
129 EPA001 : Most likely. Also a 5% difference in engines being so close to each other in time (and probably technology level) strikes me as being a very big numb
130 Post contains images CXB77L : Ferpe, thank you very much for your informative posts. That isn't an announcement regarding which engine the 777X will be offered with. The article st
131 JamBrain : I was thinking just divide the vertical values by the air frames m2 so if you want to compare 788 to 779 to 748 to give the payload per m2 at that ra
132 hannahpa : Am I correct in assuming the 777-X will have 787 technology--windows, pressure, OHB's, fuel efficiency, etc.....?
133 CXB77L : Windows themselves will most likely remain unaltered due not only to the expense and complexity involved in changing them, but also the lack of tangi
134 Post contains images hannahpa : I agree..... PH
135 bmacleod : What I'm hearing is if Boeing does go ahead with the 777X, it would basically wipe out any remaining capacity market for the 748i and Boeing should sh
136 kaitak : That's my understanding and I suspect it's a factor in Boeing not having got many 748 orders recently; most prospective 748 customers are also 777 op
137 Stitch : I would expect the decision on continuing 747-8 Intercontinental production will be driven by how long Boeing wants to keep the necessary supply chai
138 SEPilot : The real question is how many supply chains are unique to the 748i. I would expect that they would want to keep the 748i available for VIP planes, as
139 Post contains links ferpe : I will look into it and see what it brings on top of what the standard way brings. I already use solver to get to my present results in a 330 lines a
140 Post contains images ferpe : Given the fuel burn figures for the 35J, 777-8 and -9 are so close I would say that it will be a lot of other factors that decide what the airliners b
141 Post contains images Aviaponcho : Hello Ferpe 777 have 5 sets of doors, A350, 787, A330's 4, How can you take it in account comparing m² of cabin floor ? In the same way, cabin length
142 Polot : Remember that the A350-1000 will have a 5th set of doors, at least as an option (it can be seen in a model/video of the aircraft when CX ordered the
143 Aviaponcho : Yes, but it will be an option only And 4 set of doors is ok for 440 PAX 777-9 will retain 5 sets of door I don't know for 777-8
144 ikramerica : They are still in study phase. There is no reason for the 773 to have 5 sets other than that they wanted to do a simple stretch of the 772 and chose
145 Post contains links Stitch : Looks like that may have changed.
146 timpdx : the last 2 747-8i variants may very well be the future pair of Air Force Ones needed towards the end of the decade. The market seems to be speaking...
147 columba : LH might order a few more this fall....lets see
148 Post contains images JamBrain : Yes thanks, I have been following all your threads with interest, I I do appreciate how much you've done and it sure is complicated, however now you
149 douglasyxz : I do argue that because the entire 744 fleet will be replaced by 388 and 748. The firm orders of both together are slightly below 40. I don't see a n
150 CXB77L : Looks like that may have changed. Interesting. Both articles used the same quote from Bob Feldmann but appeared to have interpreted that in a differe
151 columba : LH said that additional 747-8is might be part of the long expected long haul order this fall.
152 Post contains links KarelXWB : Boeings buys the Everett Modification Center. http://www.bizjournals.com/seattle/n...oeing-buys-600000-square-foot.html
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