AirDance From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 12 posts, RR: 0 Posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11108 times:
According to the Daily Press in Newport News, "People Express airlines has signed a purchase agreement to buy an unnamed charter airline, a company official said, potentially launching the rebirth of the 1980s airline out of the Newport News-Williamsburg International Airport. In an email, People Express president Michael Morisi told the Daily Press that the purchase agreement had been signed, and that a $500,000 refundable loan that was used to help finance the purchase was returned to taxpayers."
The article also stated that additional details would be released on Monday, so the employees of the charter airline could be notified of the purchase before the "public" announcement happened.
srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 2, posted (2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10767 times:
Since there are several charter airlines that currently operate the 737-400, it does narrow down the potential airline being acquired. I'm thinking that it's either Sky King or Swift Air that they buy, with Vision or Xtra being not as likely. Then again, Ryan Int'l just went under and they might be able to buy the remains of the airline on the cheap.
AirDance From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 12 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 months 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 8492 times:
Looking at the FAA Airline Certificate Information website of the potential charters mentioned, Xtra Airways is the only carrier that appears to have a fleet of only 5 Boeing 737's. The website also states that the carrier has its domestic and flag certification.
sunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1930 posts, RR: 9 Reply 6, posted (2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 8014 times:
IMHO its Skyking as they are operating under Chap. 11. They filed in Aug. '12. Skyking does have 737-400 and the moved their Maintenance Base to Lakeland Linder Airport in Lakeland, Florida.
Wingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 216 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7516 times:
Do you think PeoplExpress is truly married to only having the 734? Is that really the hard granite limitation on which certificates (airlines) they would pursue? Why not someone with any 73xNG or even A320 family?
Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
tarmacphotos From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 309 posts, RR: 2 Reply 8, posted (2 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 7497 times:
I too was wondering why they would limit themselves to this one specific aircraft (734). I can see not wanting a mixed fleet for economical reasons, but what does it matter if they are all either Airbus 320 family or 73x family?
Also, If this gets off the ground it could be perfect timing since they are considering PIT as their hub and there will soon be an empty state of the art ops center and other buildings available at PIT courtesy the AA/US merger. PIT would be a lot better choice than Newport News for a hub for several reasons including better facilities, better location, more population ect. PIT was built as a hub so I think it would be a no brainer if the ACAA who runs PIT gives them some incentives.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22026 posts, RR: 51 Reply 9, posted (2 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7285 times:
I think they were looking at the 734 as they offer good capacity while cheap to acquire.
According to their DOT filings that had signed agreement on 12 ex Qantas sisterships.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
steeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 8804 posts, RR: 19 Reply 10, posted (2 months 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 7249 times:
Quoting tarmacphotos (Reply 8): Also, If this gets off the ground it could be perfect timing since they are considering PIT as their hub and there will soon be an empty state of the art ops center and other buildings available at PIT courtesy the AA/US merger. PIT would be a lot better choice than Newport News for a hub for several reasons including better facilities, better location, more population ect. PIT was built as a hub so I think it would be a no brainer if the ACAA who runs PIT gives them some incentives.
Two things...
I'm thinking regardless of why they're initially going with the 734, they'll be used to build/establish the airline first, and then eventually phased out in favor of newer 737 or perhaps A320s. I guess they were going with the 734s because they were the cheapest aircraft at the time when they were trying to secure their own certificate rather than buying another small airline for use of that one. Given that, however, that is a good question. Why not just secure a an airline certificate that used newer 737/A320 equipment?
About the possible PIT ops, I though the ACAA is already throwing incentives at them...
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DTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 529 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (2 months 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 6966 times:
IMHO what they really want to purchase is the operating certificate. They won't want the employees and airplanes are readily available around the world.
The real headache in an airline startup is writing the manuals and getting them approved by the feds. That is a very time consuming task.
steeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 8804 posts, RR: 19 Reply 12, posted (2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 6658 times:
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 11): IMHO what they really want to purchase is the operating certificate. They won't want the employees and airplanes are readily available around the world.
The real headache in an airline startup is writing the manuals and getting them approved by the feds. That is a very time consuming task.
That's a good point.
Will they be able to effectively launch in a few months? Their time frame is still June, isn't it? They might be cutting it close...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 15, posted (2 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 6316 times:
Quoting steeler83 (Reply 12): Their time frame is still June, isn't it? They might be cutting it close...
They could always contract the airline they're acquiring to fly on their behalf until the deal is closed.
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 11): They won't want the employees and airplanes are readily available around the world.
What PeoplExpress wants is essentially a turnkey airline, which means more than acquiring an operating certificate and manuals. They will need employees rather quickly once they get gov't approval for their operations in order to get the airline off of the ground as quickly as possible and that's what buying an existing operator gives them. I'm guessing that the airline will contract out their airport operations as much as possible in order to keep costs down, even at PIT and PHF.
DTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 529 posts, RR: 2 Reply 16, posted (2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6253 times:
Quoting srbmod (Reply 15): What PeoplExpress wants is essentially a turnkey airline, which means more than acquiring an operating certificate and manuals. They will need employees rather quickly once they get gov't approval for their operations in order to get the airline off of the ground as quickly as possible and that's what buying an existing operator gives them. I'm guessing that the airline will contract out their airport operations as much as possible in order to keep costs down, even at PIT and PHF.
This is partially correct but one must remember that People's advertised business model is entirely different from a traditional airline. At these carriers, flight attendants are flight attendants, pilots fly airplanes and rampers load and unload aircraft and agents check people in and check luggage. People's is reverting to the original business model by the former EWR-based airline that used cross utilization. Pilots flew some days and were managers on the others. Flight attendants flew some days, worked as res agents some days and at the ticket counter on others. This was the same for all of the employee groups. Everything was done on a "team" basis." Even the pilots did not wear traditional pilots uniforms that immediately identified them as pilots. IIRC they were not called captain or first officer but "team leaders" or some such thing. It was confusing to the employees, customers and became a nightmare to manage. Eventually they transitioned to a more traditional system--pilots got REAL uniforms and traditional titles (critical in order to quickly identify the Chain of Command)., as did the flight attendants.
Employees that worked under a traditional system would find it almost impossible to switch to the old system overnight and frankly most would refuse, especially at the low starting wage. Another thing to consider is that this incarnation of the airline, like the previous, requires all of their employees to purchase stock in the new company putting their personal finances at increased risk. The amount required was based upon your salary level and was non-negotiable. Would any a.netters care to invest in this project? Not I, thank you.
I really think trying to revert to a failed business model dooms the project. I would stick to the "KISS" principle. There is no shortage of experienced airline employees that are laid off that might want to give it a shot but I have serious doubts about its long-term viability. Just my humble opinion.
srbmod From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 16888 posts, RR: 51 Reply 17, posted (2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6224 times:
Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 16): People's is reverting to the original business model by the former EWR-based airline that used cross utilization. Pilots flew some days and were managers on the others. Flight attendants flew some days, worked as res agents some days and at the ticket counter on others. This was the same for all of the employee groups. Everything was done on a "team" basis." Even the pilots did not wear traditional pilots uniforms that immediately identified them as pilots. IIRC they were not called captain or first officer but "team leaders" or some such thing. It was confusing to the employees, customers and became a nightmare to manage. Eventually they transitioned to a more traditional system--pilots got REAL uniforms and traditional titles (critical in order to quickly identify the Chain of Command)., as did the flight attendants.
I was under the impression they were recycling the name, not the business plan. That's also the impression that the writers of various articles on the airline have gotten as well. There's nothing on their website that even gives that impression either.
DTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 529 posts, RR: 2 Reply 20, posted (2 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5735 times:
Quoting srbmod (Reply 17): I was under the impression they were recycling the name, not the business plan. That's also the impression that the writers of various articles on the airline have gotten as well. There's nothing on their website that even gives that impression either.
The original article in the Daily Press here on the Virginia peninsula quoted the CEO as confirming they were going to crosstrain. I wil search the paper's archives to see if I can locate the entire piece.
DTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 529 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (2 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5597 times:
Found it!
This is a quote from an article entitled "PeoplExpress Chief Thinks Big" published on Feb 12, 2012 in The Daily Press of Newport News, VA. The author was Jon Crawley.
"To be profitable in an unstable industry, PeoplExpress intends to adhere to a cost-constrained management structure, use a cross-trained and non-unionized workforce."
Another article from the same publication states that employee stock ownership will be mandatory and partially paid for out of profit-sharing.
Search The Daily Press archives for more informaton.
"
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1107 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5478 times:
Its too bad that PeoplExpress 2013 didn't form sooner they may have been able to atleast make TTN a focus city and get some of the NYC name recognition that the old PE had back in the day. Too late now, TTN is at capacity with Frontier.
ItalianFlyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 948 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (2 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5396 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 22): Its too bad that PeoplExpress 2013 didn't form sooner they may have been able to atleast make TTN a focus city and get some of the NYC name recognition that the old PE had back in the day. Too late now, TTN is at capacity with Frontier.
I thought the same thing....but then new PE is fighting for the same NYC/NNJ/SePA customers everyone else is chasing with a huge capital disadvantage. Focusing on PIT seems like a reasonable business plan; the city's metrics are moving in the right direction...western PA and NE OH are riding a shale oil boom and the airport authority is VERY motivated to make sweetheart deals. I am not saying I think the project is a home-run. PIT ain' t JFK, Morris is not Neeleman, used -400s are not new 320s, investors are not lining up and the economy isnt 1999.
steeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 8804 posts, RR: 19 Reply 24, posted (2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5304 times:
Quoting ItalianFlyer (Reply 23): I am not saying I think the project is a home-run. PIT ain' t JFK, Morris is not Neeleman, used -400s are not new 320s, investors are not lining up and the economy isnt 1999.
True, but PIT isn't a stagnant economy anymore either. Not to mention, the airport debt could potentially be paid off sooner rather than later depending on how this shale deal plays out...
Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
25 ItalianFlyer: I agree....see my remark "the city's are moving in the right direction'. Logical vortex for upstate NY (showing signs of economic life)....Ohio....Ca
26 jerseyguy: You mean Morisi. Think Egyptian president it will help you remember.
27 Antoniemey: Cross-trained could indicate anything from rampers and counter agents being able to do both jobs up to the idea of F/As doubling as gate agents. It r
28 dabpit: A cross-trained workforce will benefit the company in the long run. Also if everyone is shown how to do the other jobs at the company (even if it is t
29 DTWPurserBoy: They will have to recruit a unique group of employees that are willing to buy into such a system. I check their website almost daily and it always say
30 dabpit: I am not saying go back to the original model of in depth cross training because it is not realistic and does not make much business sense. Now giving
31 bennett123: Not being facetious, but there are serious limits to crosstraining. Certain roles such as Flight Crew, Mechanics and Cabin Crew require significant pe
32 ItalianFlyer: Some of the original PE people I've flown with said this was a serious problem. That and rampant theft. Cross-functionality can work within limits; e
33 dabpit: Those that you listed really should not be cross trained because like you said they already require a lot of training. However they can still be give
34 sunking737: I have heard from a very reliable source (private no link) that Xtra Airways was indeed sold to Peoplexpress. No other information is available to me
36 B727FA: Plan on that info; we have similar sources. Again, private, no "hard" proof.
37 DTWPurserBoy: Over two weeks ago PeoplExpress touted that they would announce which airline they had purchased on Monday in order to give employees of the "sold" ca
38 B727FA: Yes. There has been notice that it is Xtra and has been reported on here several times.
39 DTWPurserBoy: That is odd because the local paper have been following this story closely and nothing "official" has appeared. "Reliable sources" and rumors do not s
40 ouboy79: Yeah I'm with DTWPurser. I haven't see any link to anything official on here. Just all speculation by A.netters that it is Xtra based on the verbiage
41 N62NA: Just got this today in my email. Good to see things moving forward! Greetings friends.... We wanted to let you know that we are very close to an excit
42 B727FA: I can't name my source but I've known him for over 10 years and he currently works at Xtra and has confirmed this.
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