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Indian Aviation Thread Part 103  
User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13317 times:

Part 102 can be found here: Indian Aviation Thread: Part 102 (by LAXDESI Dec 17 2012 in Civil Aviation)

Some interesting Air India on time numbers can be found here: http://www.pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=87352

Quote:
The Minister of State for Civil Aviation Shri K.C. Venugopal informed Rajya Sabha today that Air India and Air India Express have achieved schedule integrity of 99.58 per cent and 99.18 per cent respectively. In addition, Air India and Air India Express have also achieved On Time Performance (OTP) of more than 76.10 per cent and 91 per cent respectively during the Winter Schedule. This was a result of several steps being taken such as close monitoring, optimization of schedules, frequent feedback, making contingency arrangements etc. which were initiated during the winter Schedule These came into effect from 28th October, 2012.

The Minister also informed the Rajya Sabha that no flights of Air India and Air India Express from Kerala to Middle East were cancelled during the year 2013 upto 10th March 2013. However there have been some instances of delays due to various reasons. In case of delays or cancellations passengers are informed in advance and those passengers reaching the airport are attended as per the prescribed norms.

75% OTP during winter (fog season) and less than 0.5% cancellation is indeed a good sign for AI's continued operational restructuring.

In addition, ICAO has published a pretty damning report of DGCA: http://www.livemint.com/Politics/nAD...-air-safety-concerns-in-India.html

Quote:
The United Nations (UN) aviation watchdog has expressed grave concerns on India’s air safety, placing it among the 13 worst-performing nations on this count, according to excerpts of an audit report.

...

The organization has clubbed India with Angola, Congo, Djibouti, Eritrea, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Haiti, Kazakhstan, Lebanon, Lesotho, Malawi, and Sao Tome and Principe.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
130 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13302 times:

The ICAO report excerpt is shocking and disturbing. As is the DGCA's casual response to it.

"The organization has clubbed India with Angola, Congo, Djibouti, Eritrea, Guinea, Guinea-Bissau, Haiti, Kazakhstan, Lebanon, Lesotho, Malawi, and Sao Tome and Principe.

A DGCA spokesman dismissed the concerns as “procedural issues”."

Incidentally Bangladesh was on this list too, but managed to get out of it last year. Yet another area where they have moved ahead of us. The report specifically notes "None of India’s neighbours—Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal, Sri Lanka or the Maldives—has been red-flagged".


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 13295 times:

On the AI OPT stats: Don't know why, but I remain skeptical. My last trip through Delhi in late January this year on a bright and sunny day, I actually took a photo of the Departures board. Half the AI flights were delayed, and a couple cancelled. None of the other airlines showed any problems. But this kind of actual observation always seems to be explained away as a one-off, and never seems to show up in the stats!

User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13175 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 2):
On the AI OPT stats: Don't know why, but I remain skeptical. My last trip through Delhi in late January this year on a bright and sunny day, I actually took a photo of the Departures board. Half the AI flights were delayed, and a couple cancelled. None of the other airlines showed any problems. But this kind of actual observation always seems to be explained away as a one-off, and never seems to show up in the stats!

The data is for 2012. AI's reliability fell off a cliff since mid-December, and is only starting to recover.

SG has also been doing terribly lately...

Quoting sankaps (Reply 1):
The ICAO report excerpt is shocking and disturbing. As is the DGCA's casual response to it.

Yes, the DGCA response is very concerning as well.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinegoacom From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 13115 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 2):

Hmm, interesting. I observed a similar pattern when I was travelling in Dec/Jan while at Bom. Perhaps the phosphors on the monitors have been permanently burnt in to show "late" due to its past record, lol.
Ps. I for one do not trust any AI stats. This POS airline and the government policies that have been established to "protect" it have been the main cause of the calamity facing the Indian aviation sector today.


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13050 times:

Quoting goacom (Reply 4):
Ps. I for one do not trust any AI stats. This POS airline and the government policies that have been established to "protect" it have been the main cause of the calamity facing the Indian aviation sector today.

I completely agree! I don't trust too many stats from the GOI in any case, lots of cooking of data in general, a real disconnect from the on-the-ground reality.


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13031 times:

Quoting goacom (Reply 4):
Ps. I for one do not trust any AI stats. This POS airline and the government policies that have been established to "protect" it have been the main cause of the calamity facing the Indian aviation sector today.

After the KFA reliability debacle, the government has started using airport data to establish OTP, to avoid data fudging.



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13025 times:

Quoting aeroblogger (Reply 6):
After the KFA reliability debacle, the government has started using airport data to establish OTP, to avoid data fudging.

That's good. When did that start though?


User currently offlineaeroblogger From India, joined Dec 2011, 1363 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 12843 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 7):
That's good. When did that start though?

Around a year ago? I don't remember exactly...



Airports 2012: IXE HYD DEL BLR BOM CCU KNU KTM BKK SIN ICN LAX BUR SFO PHX IAH ORD EWR PHL PVD BOS FRA MUC IST
User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 348 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 12664 times:

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/TQO...ament-on-UN-air-safety-report.html

Quote:
Aviation ministry misled Parliament on air safety report: council

The aviation ministry misled the Indian Parliament about a safety audit draft report by a United Nations watchdog, a member of the Civil Aviation Safety Advisory Council (CASAC) said in a letter to aviation minister Ajit Singh and aviation secretary K.N. Srivastava.
This is a very serious allegation. I wonder who will be made to fall on the grenade this time so that top bosses can   .



I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 12647 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 1):
The ICAO report excerpt is shocking and disturbing

Most Issues seem to be manpower related and regulationwise......
DGCA needs to follow an EASA position in terms of regulatory work.......



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 1 week 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 12504 times:

Ariana KBL-Dushanbe-DEL soon http://www.flyariana.com/index.asp

User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 12223 times:

There is currently a rumour here at AMS tha 9W is thinking about a second daily BOM/DEL - YYZ flight via AMS (next to the flight via BRU). Is this a credible rumour? It sounds so strange..

User currently offlineVTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12146 times:

I doubt. They just went from A330-200 to A330-300 on that route. Is demand that high on that route....?

http://www.jetairways.com/EN/US/Pres...rbus330-300DelhiTorontoSector.aspx

Last week there was a story in the Indian press about the "possibility" of the EY deal falling through. So unless 9W is cozying up to KLM as a codeshare partner and thinking of starting AMS.....



Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11936 times:

While landing at SAW (Istanbul sabiha Gokcen), i saw an Air India Cargo A310 freighter. It seemed like parked there or ages.. whats the story, does AI fly freighters to SAW or is that one just parked there

User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 11880 times:

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 14):

While landing at SAW (Istanbul sabiha Gokcen), i saw an Air India Cargo A310 freighter. It seemed like parked there or ages.. whats the story, does AI fly freighters to SAW or is that one just parked there

AI Cargo Freighters both types the A310F & B732F were retired quite a few yrs ago.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 11591 times:

China Airlines Cargo have ended MAA service and Mihin Lanka are suspending DEL from mid April.

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 11482 times:

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 14):

This is the case

Quote:
Quoting 777way (Reply 12):
according to a post in Indian aviation thread theres an Air India A310Fapparently in AI livery, stored at SAW, who does it belong to now any idea?

There was also a passenger A310. They are being parted out by MyTechnic.

Here is a photo by someone - you can see the freighter (N430AL) in the background
http://distilleryimage8.s3.amazonaws...6852606711e2a5b622000a9f1254_7.jpg

Here is the passenger one (N428AL) before the chop job
http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?i...seq=0


User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11412 times:

Which airline/s will the IPL be flying on?

User currently offlineairdfw From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11394 times:

What is going on in India? I mean everything is stand still. Is 9W cannot make up its mind to go to bed with EY or Star?

User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11380 times:

Quoting airdfw (Reply 19):
Is 9W cannot make up its mind to go to bed with EY or Star?

I think you have to be more patience. It's more likely that they're still in negociations and these things take time. AFAIk ther was a news article a few days ago which implied that they're going to create a special company which will hold a majority of the 9W shares. EY would get a majority share in this new comapny However, they need the approval from the Indian government to set up the new company (and this is rumoured to take a few extra weeks/months). If this is correct you won't hear from a possible EY-9W tie up anytime soon. Finally, I think it's more up to EY to decide if they want to invest in 9W rather than 9W making up its mind.


User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 11300 times:

Quoting LJ (Reply 20):
Finally, I think it's more up to EY to decide if they want to invest in 9W rather than 9W making up its mind.

Agree partially - it's also up to 9W to make the investment worthwhile for both parties (instead of only for themselves). I suspect a large part of the current hold up is to do with 9W "wanting the money for free".



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 11281 times:

PP cannot do anything for 9W now and EY is not an Indian airline. 9W will have to to play 'What the Market values them as.'

User currently offlineaviationbuff From India, joined Mar 2008, 1425 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 11230 times:

Quoting brahmin (Reply 18):
Which airline/s will the IPL be flying on?

Must be Spicejet (not sure) due to the Kingfisher fiasco and the entry of Sun group. Sun group owns Spicejet and the new IPL team Hyderabad Sunrisers


User currently onlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11100 times:

Quoting brahmin (Reply 18):
Which airline/s will the IPL be flying on?
http://articles.economictimes.indiat...aredevils-official-airline-partner



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (1 year 5 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10985 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 16):

Air China Cargo too have stopped MAA service.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 26, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 10741 times:

Whats the status on Air Asia India.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 10915 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 26):
Whats the status on Air Asia India.

I heard they're starting to recruit. Btw, strangely enough, a pilot friend (currently unemployed) got a call from Paramount asking if he'd be interested in joining them. Anyone heard anything about a potential restart of ops?



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 17
Reply 28, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 10729 times:

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 27):
Anyone heard anything about a potential restart of ops?

They won a hefty lawsuit which awarded them around 1400 crore INR against GECAS UK, so they maybe looking at re starting



Karan


User currently offlinegr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3107 posts, RR: 4
Reply 29, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10688 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 26):
Air Asia India.

Is that what the new airline is going to be called? Or will there be some other name?

Also, anyone have details on when they are starting ops, what fleet they will operate and where they will be based...? Sorry if this has been discussed before (I'm sure it has).....


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 10661 times:

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 28):
They won a hefty lawsuit which awarded them around 1400 crore INR against GECAS UK, so they maybe looking at re starting

Do you have a source or link for that?


User currently offlineCaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 10669 times:

Heard that TK wont be flying to other indian cities due to no India based airlines showing interest in launching flights to IST, anyone else know more?

User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10631 times:

TK basically caters to Indians traveling on to N America. Indian carriers would have a tough time filling planes for people visiting Turkey or Turks visiting India.

User currently offlinehimmat01 From India, joined Dec 2004, 1047 posts, RR: 6
Reply 33, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 10540 times:

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 29):
Is that what the new airline is going to be called? Or will there be some other name?

Also, anyone have details on when they are starting ops, what fleet they will operate and where they will be based...? Sorry if this has been discussed before (I'm sure it has).....

It will be called Air Asia India and will be based in MAA. The plan is to fly to tier II cities and no flights to either BOM or DEL.



An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 348 posts, RR: 14
Reply 34, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 10304 times:

I am really surprised as to why one of the most happening threads on A.net just a few months ago is now so sparse? Any ideas why? how to revive this thread?


I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlineVTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10288 times:

Air India should ask for compensation for the 787 fiasco again. That will get a lot of people going. Just saying.  

Seriously though everythings gone quiet. Seems to be no movement on KFA, Air Asia, Jetihad........   



Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 36, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 10271 times:

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 34):

part 98 I think went on for months before it reached 200 posts.


User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10268 times:

Revision of bilaterals with DXB, 380 approvals should set the ball rolling..... However, with Union election in less than a year, the government will not bother about aviation (not something that affects the masses) till the new govt is in place with a new MoCA.

Just out of curiosity, what are your opinions on who should be MoCA's candidate from UPA or NDA (whoever comes to power)?

UPA: Sachin Pilot (Namesake :P)
NDA: Rajiv Rudy (Active pilot, past experience, industry knowledge)


User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 38, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10245 times:

I personally feel if BJD comes in the coalition, Jay Panda may have a very good chance.


A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 39, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 10181 times:

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 27):
call from Paramount asking if he'd be interested in joining them. Anyone heard anything about a potential restart of ops?

Heard they were thinking of restarting with A320s

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 34):
how to revive this thread?

Just get folks to start posting.....



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 10177 times:

Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 39):
Heard they were thinking of restarting with A320s

My friend said the HR person mentioned something about ATRs. Secondhand info, yes, but interesting I thought.



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 17
Reply 41, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 10143 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 30):
Do you have a source or link for that?
http://www.business-standard.com/art...-lawsuit-money-112122400122_1.html

Karan


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 42, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 10138 times:

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 41):
http://www.business-standard.com/art...-lawsuit-money-112122400122_1.html

Karan

Thanks. Seems a very high number (Rs 1,650 cr) for a lease dispute over a defective engine. I am skeptical of theaccuracy of this report.


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 43, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10105 times:

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 37):
UPA: Sachin Pilot (Namesake :P)

MoCA will likely go to a non-Congress partner which is not called the NCP

Quoting AirIndia (Reply 37):
NDA: Rajiv Rudy (Active pilot, past experience, industry knowledge)

My sympathies lie with them, but let them win first.

Quoting VTORD (Reply 35):
Seriously though everythings gone quiet. Seems to be no movement on KFA, Air Asia, Jetihad........

AirAsia's and Tony's Twitter feeds have the Cockpit and Cabin crew hiring info. KFA Lenders have grown balls, Mallya and his spawn are nowhere to be seen at IPL matches and even the one F1 race he attended well his cars went out (karma?) the spawn who wanted to be a Bollywood star (got this from my friend Jamal who interviewed him for MH India) is shit scared of coming back to India ever since the Zohal Hamid incident.
As for Jetihad - well... I don't see anything until the second quarter of the FY



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineart From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3382 posts, RR: 1
Reply 44, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 10110 times:

Mr. Ajit Singh, Civil Aviation Minister:

"We also have a national civil aircraft development program for 100-seat medium transport aircraft. Some of the country’s leading aeronautics and space scientists are spearheading the project and I hope this takes shape”, he added.

Dr. R.K. Tyagi, Chairman, HAL said the Company has been focusing on military aviation but now plans to diversify into civil market.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...-to-develop-100_seat-airliner.html

Good idea or not?


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 45, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 10058 times:

Quoting art (Reply 44):
Dr. R.K. Tyagi, Chairman, HAL said the Company has been focusing on military aviation but now plans to diversify into civil market.

http://www.defense-aerospace.com/art...-to-develop-100_seat-airliner.html

Good idea or not?

Someone remind them just how frikkin' long HAL (the lead contractor) has spent on developing the Light Combat Aircraft. Instead of doing these projects, the government should encourage more research in our top technical and engineering colleces in aeronautics and then get private partners to develop aircraft. I believe Mahindra Aerospace is doing a good job here, even if they started by buying an Aussie company.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 46, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9887 times:

Why no cargo operators lining up as yet post FDI?.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 9897 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 43):
Mallya and his spawn are nowhere to be seen at IPL matches

Unfortunately that is not the case. A grinning VJM was in full view awarding Chris Gayle a giant Rs 1 lakh Man of the Match check last week after one of the games. While his KFA staff are still unpaid for 8-10 months. Shameless man.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 45):
Instead of doing these projects, the government should encourage more research in our top technical and engineering colleces in aeronautics

A bit OT, but the government should encourage its best minds to focus on providing the basics of sanitation, healthcare, education, water, power, roads, etc to the people before getting into civil airliner and space programs.


User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 9826 times:

How much traffic does the IPL generate for the Indian carriers? With ten teams there is a minimum of eighty away games and more. I am not too familiar with the series format.

Around 35 people traveling per team times 80 is 2,800.

Does not seem much at all.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 49, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 9719 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 25):

Hong Kong airlines Cargo have also ended MAA and DEL too.


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 50, posted (1 year 5 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 9713 times:

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 34):
I am really surprised as to why one of the most happening threads on A.net just a few months ago is now so sparse? Any ideas why? how to revive this thread?

Even the Non-Av thread has slowed down considerably - once you had to scroll all the way down before hitting yesterday's posts; not so anymore.

Also, Indian Aviation is no longer a hot topic   you'll have to wait for 'India Shining - The Sequel' to reboot.

Other topics - VJM and his son are rapidly becoming India's despised. Aeroblogger was right. The banks (mostly State Owned) are moving in to seize all pledged assets, including his Goa pad and UB stock.

Quoting sankaps (Reply 47):
A bit OT, but the government should encourage its best minds to focus on providing the basics of sanitation, healthcare, education, water, power, roads, etc to the people before getting into civil airliner and space programs.

My bro just went through MAA and he says the bathrooms there are world-class. But I hear you. I have been in India for a year now and I can see why people would rather use the fields instead of the filthy public toilets. Will India ever become a clean country? China used to be filthy too but at least its getting better in the big cities.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 51, posted (1 year 5 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 9491 times:

Quoting brahmin (Reply 48):
Around 35 people traveling per team times 80 is 2,800.

Does not seem much at all.

Not much I would think......

Any details on Air Asia India launch date scheduled......heard they wont touch VABB.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlineBigTom From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2006, 597 posts, RR: 3
Reply 52, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9482 times:

Heard that Air Asia India won't touch BOM or DEL. Will they be able to sell through tickets to SE Asia through Chennai from Indian Tier 2 and 3 cities?

Mel, what's the latest status of BOM new international terminal? Any idea of launch dates?


User currently offlineAirIndia From United Arab Emirates, joined Jan 2001, 1641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (1 year 5 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 9481 times:

Quoting BigTom (Reply 52):
Will they be able to sell through tickets to SE Asia through Chennai from Indian Tier 2 and 3 cities?

As long as its not their own metal, they should be. Wasnt Modiluft in a similar arrangement with Lufthansa in the 90s?


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 54, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9322 times:

Quoting BigTom (Reply 52):
Heard that Air Asia India won't touch BOM or DEL. Will they be able to sell through tickets to SE Asia through Chennai from Indian Tier 2 and 3 cities?

They ought to manage well enough, leaving BOM and DEL to Indigo and SpiceJet are they? Could be a smart move, but then again these two cities do account for one helluva lot of traffic given their massive population bases (NCR - 25mn Greater Mumbai 25mn). That said, I'm not sure that people in these two cities would want a stop-over via MAA to get to KUL just a save tops a few thousand, if that.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlinehimmat01 From India, joined Dec 2004, 1047 posts, RR: 6
Reply 55, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9317 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 54):
That said, I'm not sure that people in these two cities would want a stop-over via MAA to get to KUL just a save tops a few thousand, if that.

For a single traveler, saving of 2-3 thousand may not matter but for a middle class family of 4, that adds up to 10-12 thousand. This difference might effect their decision.



An airplane might disappoint any pilot but it'll never surprise a good one.
User currently offlineBigTom From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2006, 597 posts, RR: 3
Reply 56, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 9198 times:

Air Asia certainly do have some good deals to SE Asia from India, how do they compare with fares offered by the competition on these routes?

User currently onlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 57, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9211 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 54):
That said, I'm not sure that people in these two cities would want a stop-over via MAA to get to KUL just a save tops a few thousand, if that.
Quoting himmat01 (Reply 55):
For a single traveler, saving of 2-3 thousand may not matter but for a middle class family of 4, that adds up to 10-12 thousand. This difference might effect their decision.

A middle class Indian family almost always looks for cheaper alternatives. And why wouldn't they. The Indian Govt has never us reason enough with less fuel surcharges in this generation. So yes another 4-5 hrs would matter less than saving approx Rs 10K.



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 58, posted (1 year 5 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 9079 times:

Quoting himmat01 (Reply 55):
For a single traveler, saving of 2-3 thousand may not matter but for a middle class family of 4, that adds up to 10-12 thousand. This difference might effect their decision.
Quoting JOYA380B747 (Reply 57):
A middle class Indian family almost always looks for cheaper alternatives. And why wouldn't they. The Indian Govt has never us reason enough with less fuel surcharges in this generation. So yes another 4-5 hrs would matter less than saving approx Rs 10K.

True, but I believe you guys are making one mistake, many people in the professional classes do value time as well. Now if I had to get to BKKKUL or SIN for a short break, wasting 3-4 hours journey time each way is silly. If the connections are seamless and smooth like they are in say FRA MUC or even LHR T5 maybe I don't mind a 90 minute stopover. Indeed, I myself have chosen LH to CDG/AMS later next month instead of AF/KL due to price but also because I've transited through MUC before and my connection times are both under 90 minutes.

It is that balance that people have to find, many people would prefer to take a train between Delhi and Mumbai but the Rajdhani takes 16 hours even if a return 1 AC fare is under 5k. People can book well in advance DEL-BOM and get fares of 8-9k. Again a family of four spends 15-20k more, but time versus money equation is always in favour of direct flights. The connection time will be the deal-breaker if you ask me.

And again, a single stopover might work if KUL or BKK are my final destinations with direct Air Asia flights from MAA. Now if I was say going to REP, then, will I be willing for a double-stop flight? Again, to each their own.



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineBigTom From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2006, 597 posts, RR: 3
Reply 59, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8908 times:

Looks as if the Jet-Etihad deal is done pending approvals ...

Etihad to get 32% of Jet


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13135 posts, RR: 100
Reply 60, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8808 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Is this now fact? (Note, I'm asking):
Brushing aside the opposition from state owned carrier Air India, other domestic carriers and private airports, India enhanced traffic rights for Abu Dhabi to 50,000 weekly seats up from current entitlement of around 13,000 seats. With this massive expansion in bilateral, Etihad airways will be virtually in the same league as Dubai- based Emirates which currently has the entitlement of around 54,000 weekly seats.

http://www.business-standard.com/art...deal-is-struck-113042400754_1.html

A slightly smaller number of seats than reported yesterday, but still a HUGE change! (Just under 4X!)

Late edit:
Other sources "only" at 41,000 seats:
http://www.moneycontrol.com/news/mar...etdeal-says-capas-kaul_858327.html

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 34):

I am really surprised as to why one of the most happening threads on A.net just a few months ago is now so sparse? Any ideas why? how to revive this thread?

Growth, or lack thereof. In the past we had 9W, IT, and 6E growing at amazing rates. We also do not currently have an interest AI 'crisis.' Its status quo. IT failed... I think we've talked that out. Its very tough to get excited about an AI bailout right now... The only thing interesting is the 9W-EY deal.

In the past we had:
1. FAST Indian passenger growth.
2. Enough constrained bilaterals to India that the ongoing discussions were *very* interesting. In particular with the attempts to 'protect AI.'
3. New Indian airlines going international, one by one, as they hit the 5-year mark. (Earlier it was the launch of new Indian airlines. When was the last one launched?)
4. "Conflict" with the mid-east carriers. Now its investment...
5. BLR/HYD built/privatized. But where is the expansions?
6. DEL airport expansion, which was supposed to be more of an international hub than its become. Potential is much more interesting than the reality...
7. MAA expansion.
8. Debate on A380s to India. Now everyone just accepts they won't fly there... How many times can we discuss the same topic?

These threads will get interesting again.

Quoting comorin (Reply 50):
Also, Indian Aviation is no longer a hot topic

It has not shown the growth of Chinese air traffic. But it will become hot again.

Quoting BigTom (Reply 59):
Looks as if the Jet-Etihad deal is done pending approvals ...

That it does. IMHO that ends any chance of EK gaining further air service rights for 2 years (or so).

It also seems to indicate a change of strategy to allow AI to fail.    Not tomorrow... but a lingering death.

This will *finally* give an Indian carrier the network to match the mid-east carriers, by joining them!

Lightsaber

[Edited 2013-04-24 11:50:48]


Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinebizmark03 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8762 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 36):
I am really surprised as to why one of the most happening threads on A.net just a few months ago is now so sparse? Any ideas why? how to revive this thread?

Everyone's busy watching IPL

On a serious note, Is the increase seat entitlements between Abu-Dhabi and India already done? Since the Civil Aviation Ministry already issued a press release or it still requires clearances and opposing parties can still stall it?(which I hope they do)


User currently online15a From India, joined Jan 2006, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 8666 times:

http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=95006

This is the official GOI statement on the India - AUH bilateral - 36670 additional seats taking the total bilateral to to 50k seats each


User currently offlinebizmark03 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 8580 times:

Quoting 15a (Reply 62):
http://pib.nic.in/newsite/erelease.aspx?relid=95006

This is the official GOI statement on the India - AUH bilateral - 36670 additional seats taking the total bilateral to to 50k seats each

Too bad! I wonder how GMR and GVK feel after they've pumped so much money into Delhi and Bombay International Airports, the Govt. of India is making policies which favor hubs in the middle east.


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8567 times:

Quoting bizmark03 (Reply 63):
Too bad! I wonder how GMR and GVK feel after they've pumped so much money into Delhi and Bombay International Airports, the Govt. of India is making policies which favor hubs in the middle east.

Good question, though at the end of theday 50k seats isa bout 2.5M seats per year, whch at 75% LF is about 2M pax per year. India has about 20-25M int'l pax each way annually -- so this is only 10% of the total.


User currently offlinerahulrahul From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 175 posts, RR: 0
Reply 65, posted (1 year 5 months 19 hours ago) and read 8503 times:

Has anyone been to the new MAA terminals? I went before the they opened, but people have been saying that it is great. I will be going this summer, so looking forward to it!

Rahul



A300/319/320/321/332/333/343/346 B732/738/744/752/762/763/772/773 CRJ200/700/900 ERJ140/145/170/175 MD88
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3235 posts, RR: 9
Reply 66, posted (1 year 5 months 9 hours ago) and read 8368 times:

Quoting bizmark03 (Reply 63):
Too bad! I wonder how GMR and GVK feel after they've pumped so much money into Delhi and Bombay International Airports, the Govt. of India is making policies which favor hubs in the middle east.

They need to realize they're not monopolies - and they should be encouraging increase air traffic through lower tariffs and promotions. Ancillary revenues should be boosted - and aviation revenues should go up through volumes. Instead they've behaved like monopolies and jacked up prices to incredible amounts (esp. DIAL). Well at the end of the day - a hub is a hub is a hub - and it can be 3 hours away if that means it's better for the bottom line.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 67, posted (1 year 5 months 6 hours ago) and read 8349 times:

Quoting rahulrahul (Reply 65):
Has anyone been to the new MAA terminals? I went before the they opened, but people have been saying that it is great. I will be going this summer, so looking forward to it!

Rahul

Don't forget to visit the bogs there- I hear they are ultramodern and spotlessly clean!  


User currently offlinegr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3107 posts, RR: 4
Reply 68, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8165 times:

Question about AI.....I noticed that most of the 787 flights are scheduled from DEL (once they re-start).....is there anything at all to and from BOM?

Are the 787 crew all based in DEL in that case?


User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 8078 times:

All the 787 crew should be based there, but, the crew will travel to DEL and back to BOM as crew or passenger, stay in a hotel and then operate their flight. This is very uneconomical.

AI should move their crew there. They will face strong resistance to this.


User currently offlinefreqflyer From India, joined Apr 2006, 100 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 8000 times:

Quoting rahulrahul (Reply 65):
Has anyone been to the new MAA terminals?

I was there (domestic) yesterday. Far better than the old dump. But looks like every other new AAI terminal. Some commercial shops are still coming up and seating is somewhat inadequete.

[Edited 2013-04-27 19:36:18]

User currently offlinegr8circle From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 3107 posts, RR: 4
Reply 71, posted (1 year 4 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 7879 times:

Quoting brahmin (Reply 69):
All the 787 crew should be based there, but, the crew will travel to DEL and back to BOM as crew or passenger, stay in a hotel and then operate their flight. This is very uneconomical.

AI should move their crew there. They will face strong resistance to this

For last several decades AI has been BOM based, so anyone wanting to be an AI crew member had to move to BOM from any other part of India......now that AI is setting up DEL as their second base, I guess more and more crew will be DEL based......many of the senior pilots and FAs who are BOM based cannot be denied the opportunity to fly on the 787....I guess those are the ones that will need to be ferried back and forth in the short to medium term......I agree, it is uneconomical.....I guess over a period of time, once AI has a larger 787 fleet, they will have crew based in both BOM and DEL and the ferrying will be reduced to a minimum......


User currently offlinebizmark03 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 47 posts, RR: 0
Reply 72, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7677 times:

Quoting gr8circle (Reply 71):
For last several decades AI has been BOM based, so anyone wanting to be an AI crew member had to move to BOM from any other part of India......now that AI is setting up DEL as their second base, I guess more and more crew will be DEL based......many of the senior pilots and FAs who are BOM based cannot be denied the opportunity to fly on the 787....I guess those are the ones that will need to be ferried back and forth in the short to medium term......I agree, it is uneconomical.....I guess over a period of time, once AI has a larger 787 fleet, they will have crew based in both BOM and DEL and the ferrying will be reduced to a minimum......

AFAIK AI were planning on shifting base from Bombay to Delhi, there was also some talk of leasing out their HQ at the Air India building at Nariman Point. So BOM may just end up becoming a secondary hub for AI or is probably already one.


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 73, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7636 times:

This is a FUD story by the Times of India today
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/b...-services/articleshow/19793961.cms

Personally, I don't mind paying a bit extra to pre-select seats, and if I am offered a discount for being hand-baggage only (I do DEL-BOM day-trips or overnighters at least one a month, only hand-luggage) why shouldn't I use it. Yes, if you are a family of four flying with your kitchen sink, personally I've always felt you should travel AI or 9W. I see Indian LCC"s reducing baggage allowances to 15kgs or less...

Good move!



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 74, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7233 times:

PIA have upped KHI-DEL to A310 from 737 but frequency remains once weekly.

Any idea which PIA aircraft visited Chandigarh few days back was it ATR or some other? Air India A319 was in Lahore earlier this month as well.


User currently offlineCaliAtenza From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1577 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7129 times:

Quoting brahmin (Reply 32):


TK basically caters to Indians traveling on to N America. Indian carriers would have a tough time filling planes for people visiting Turkey or Turks visiting India.

I dont see why Jet cant make a go of it; they have the fleet.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 76, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7069 times:

Whats the launch date for Air asia india.


Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7178 times:

Quoting freqflyer (Reply 70):
But looks like every other new AAI terminal.

This is an issue I have with all of the new terminals coming up. They're all big bloody blocks of steel, glass and marble, freely interchangeable with each other. There should've been a bit more thought into the aesthetics of these buildings, and perhaps some effort could've been made to get them to reflect local culture a bit more. In that regard I like COK, it's getting a bit old now, but the terminal is built with elements of traditional Kerala architecture.



'What's it doing now?'
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 78, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7161 times:

Quoting sturmovik (Reply 77):
some effort could've been made to get them to reflect local culture a bit more

At the new CCU terminal, they have the writings of Tagore inscribed on the ceilings... a nice local touch.

New CCU terminal - Tagore inscriptions on ceiling
New CCU terminal - Tagore inscriptions on ceiling
New CCU terminal - Tagore inscriptions on ceiling


User currently offlinesturmovik From India, joined May 2007, 509 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 7116 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 78):
they have the writings of Tagore inscribed on the ceilings

I was not aware of that, that is indeed a nice touch. I wish BLR and HYD had more stuff like this.



'What's it doing now?'
User currently onlineJOYA380B747 From India, joined Mar 2005, 509 posts, RR: 1
Reply 80, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 6934 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 78):

Are the ground services at the new CCU terminal really that messed up like the media is saying?



If it wasn't for AI and those money mongers sitting in the parliament, 9W would have been as big as SQ...:(
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 81, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 6887 times:

Yes, it is quite messed up. If you look beyond the "showcase" areas, the airport is filthy. Processes still slow. Needless bottlenecks (for example at security) still present.

See this photo of the entrance from the new covered parking lot to the terminal, for example...





User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 348 posts, RR: 14
Reply 82, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6826 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 73):
Personally, I don't mind paying a bit extra to pre-select seats, and if I am offered a discount for being hand-baggage only (I do DEL-BOM day-trips or overnighters at least one a month, only hand-luggage) why shouldn't I use it. Yes, if you are a family of four flying with your kitchen sink, personally I've always felt you should travel AI or 9W. I see Indian LCC"s reducing baggage allowances to 15kgs or less...

AI and 9W are supposed to be "full service" carriers. The global norm for check-in luggage on full service carriers is 1 bag of up to 23 kgs.

As an LCC JetKonnect is welcome to have a zero baggage allowance, but then reduce your tickets prices in line. Otherwise 5kgs less is equal to a Rs 1,250 fare hike.



I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 83, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6664 times:

When did AI resume Bahrain?

User currently offlineojas From India, joined Mar 2008, 2975 posts, RR: 24
Reply 84, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 6673 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 83):
When did AI resume Bahrain?

7-8 months ago. DEL - BAH - AUH - DEL routing



A lion does not concern himself with the opinions of the sheep
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 85, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 6629 times:

Air Asia India announces new CEO: 32-year old former model Mittu Chandilya. An interesting choice for sure!

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/...-in-india/articleshow/20075972.cms


User currently offlineairdfw From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6564 times:

ARE AI 787 are flying now?

User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2889 posts, RR: 17
Reply 87, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 6469 times:

Quoting airdfw (Reply 86):
ARE AI 787 are flying now?

Yes the domestic runs have commenced

Karan


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 88, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6099 times:

Awakening this thread from the depths of despair (OK, so I was in Europe for a few days   )
I found this story interesting...
Subramanian Swamy has slammed the 9W-EY deal calling it a 'mega-fraud'
http://www.dailypioneer.com/nation/s...slams-fraud-jet-etihad-tie-up.html



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineVTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5974 times:

So Swamy thinks the 9W-EY deal is "fraught with massive security risk"? Hmm.....
I wonder what he thinks of EK operating more flights out of India than any other carrier???



Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
User currently offlinebrahmin From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 79 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5963 times:

Well, now we see that the GOI does not always support AI.

User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 91, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5916 times:

Quoting Cricket (Reply 88):
Awakening this thread from the depths of despair (OK, so I was in Europe for a few days )
I found this story interesting...
Subramanian Swamy has slammed the 9W-EY deal calling it a 'mega-fraud'
http://www.dailypioneer.com/nation/s...slams-fraud-jet-etihad-tie-up.html

Swamy Subramaniam, God bless his patriotic soul, is swinging at windmills again. I can't blame him - a lone honest person seeing his country being eaten away by corruption.


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 92, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 5826 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 91):
Swamy Subramaniam, God bless his patriotic soul, is swinging at windmills again. I can't blame him - a lone honest person seeing his country being eaten away by corruption.

But some of what he does is a bit whacky, but if it wasn't for people like him, a lot worse would happen...



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineairdfw From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 93, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 5657 times:

On Science channel here in US, they were showing the building of Mumbai International and I guess it is a new terminal. When the this terminal will be open? It seems there is going to be a new elevated freeway will constructed as well?

The construction (build it bigger, is the show) is amazing.


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2968 posts, RR: 7
Reply 94, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 5431 times:

Not a very clear story, but it appears that Indigo has gotten permission to take delivery of 28 more aircraft in the 2013-14 timeframe. I guess this also means that many aircraft will leave the fleet as well.
http://businesstoday.intoday.in/stor...a320-airbus-aircraft/1/195548.html



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineIlove747 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2007, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 95, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 5237 times:

Have been a follower of this thread for long and not an active contributor. Just came accros this plans for the COK by CIAL the airprort operator. The plans are to build a new International Terminal at COK. CIAL seems to be doing extremly well, with the airprort generating good profits and selffunding all the improvements to date. Link : http://cial.aero/feedBack/suggestion.aspx

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13135 posts, RR: 100
Reply 96, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 5171 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Cricket (Reply 88):
Subramanian Swamy has slammed the 9W-EY deal calling it a 'mega-fraud'

What part of the deal is fraud? Seriously. EY is saving 9W and their cost was air traffic rights to India. If 9W had failed right after IT, that would have set back India's economic growth for a decade.

I think the main thing is that the deal signaled that AI is no longer sacred. By the time EY and 9W complete their expansion, if AI fails, it will not be a very dramatic event. It is simply time for AI to restructure to profitability. If not... wind them down.

I'll never understand why so many middle men are allowed to get in the way of Indian business.

Quoting Cricket (Reply 94):
Not a very clear story, but it appears that Indigo has gotten permission to take delivery of 28 more aircraft in the 2013-14 timeframe. I guess this also means that many aircraft will leave the fleet as well.

Your link states that Indigo will grow. That means more aircraft will come in than leave...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 348 posts, RR: 14
Reply 97, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 5034 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 96):
What part of the deal is fraud? Seriously. EY is saving 9W and their cost was air traffic rights to India. If 9W had failed right after IT, that would have set back India's economic growth for a decade.

Sorry the Daily Pioneer link doesn't work.

The "fraud" part is the quid-pro-quo offered to EY on increasing seat bi-laterals.

I think this Op-Ed piece by PR Sanjai is extremely courageous. http://www.livemint.com/Opinion/5zO7...eal-and-the-national-interest.html

Do also read http://www.livemint.com/Politics/ZBV...-have-clinched-JetEtihad-deal.html

[Edited 2013-06-07 19:42:21]


I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 98, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 5007 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 96):
What part of the deal is fraud? Seriously. EY is saving 9W and their cost was air traffic rights to India. If 9W had failed right after IT, that would have set back India's economic growth for a decade.

   - Actually, no shortage of other candidates to set back India's growth for decades!


User currently offlineVTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 99, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4965 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 96):
What part of the deal is fraud?

Fraud also in the way GoI committed to pump 30,000 crores of tax payers' money in to AI but ended up handing a deal to 9W that would cripple AI. So why waste that money?



Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 348 posts, RR: 14
Reply 100, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 4952 times:

Quoting VTORD (Reply 99):
Fraud also in the way GoI committed to pump 30,000 crores of tax payers' money in to AI but ended up handing a deal to 9W that would cripple AI. So why waste that money?

  You need to read my blog to understand the reasons for that.   

The 30,000 is not for AI. AI is merely the conduit for the flow to the leeches who have been promised and are feeding off the airline. The airline has already burnt through that money and its 777s are idling due to want of spares. http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...how-wasted-1-dot-7-billion-bailout

You honestly believe Air India is an airline?      It is the NetJets of the Govt. of India.   



I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13135 posts, RR: 100
Reply 101, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 4886 times:
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Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 97):
The "fraud" part is the quid-pro-quo offered to EY on increasing seat bi-laterals.

That is wise business negotiation on the part of GoI. Since that benefits all 9W stockholders and puts enough money into Jet to make them at least short term viable... I see no issue. For in effect the GoI negotiated to keep most of 9W Indian (if that can be said in their current stock ownership scheme... which deserves its own thread) is a worthy goal for the GoI. That isn't 'fraud' in my book.

Bilateral rights are always issued with the thought of "what's in it for me." With EK, the air service rights were traded for pharma and chemical trade rights (as Dubai is the mid-east transit center for both) with 'guest worker allowances' also added to appease the populace. Since Abu Dhabi doesn't have the trade connections of Dubai, they had to offer good old fashioned cash.

Which by the way amuses me as India *needs* more trade access in Dubai... but it is a negotiation. Dubai is talking with the German and India governments over pharma and chemical access. In the mean time, the US pharma benefit as the open skies agreement gave them unlimited access to the mid-east markets via Dubai...

There is always a cost to putting up trade barriers. Protecting jobs at AI has cost job growth in other sectors of the India economy...

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 97):
Do also read

Yep. What amused me is:
CAG said in its audit report that more flying rights should not be granted until India had its own hub.
That should have been done already!   

I've noted before that the mid-east growth was enabled by the lack of hubbing capacity in Europe and India. Due to market demand, that is where the hubs should have been (I include IST in Europe, FWIW). But sitting idle since it was obvious EK was growing quick (that would be 2003 to 2005, but *no later*) has been silly. There has been a decade to adapt... We should have had MAA expanded to 3 runways and DEL better optimized as a hub with *far better processes*. (DEL won't become an international hub as long as the transfers take longer and have more hassle than existing options...)

Quoting VTORD (Reply 99):
Fraud also in the way GoI committed to pump 30,000 crores of tax payers' money in to AI but ended up handing a deal to 9W that would cripple AI. So why waste that money?

I agree, why waste the money on AI? A business that has the opportunity for subsidies will eventually reform itself to develop a management culture that performs the actions that ensure the subsidies. AI has passed that point. As BLR aviation notes:

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 100):
The 30,000 is not for AI. AI is merely the conduit for the flow to the leeches who have been promised and are feeding off the airline. The airline has already burnt through that money and its 777s are idling due to want of spares.

Its worse than that. AI is the sole recipient of "EAS" in India, but its not done officially, its done through the subsidies too, so that is very inefficient because of the known receipt of more subsidies.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 100):
It is the NetJets of the Govt. of India.  

Its even worse than that IMHO. What fraction of business class and first class seats on AI are actually sold? I haven't been able to find that which tells me its really low...

Quoting comorin (Reply 98):
Actually, no shortage of other candidates to set back India's growth for decades!

Don't get me started... the 'middleman culture' of India is pushing jobs elsewhere. I have friends in Import/Export and Outsourcing and both China and India have lost their luster. Their going to Thailand, Indonesia, a trickle to Burma, and a trickle to Vietnam. They can get off the plane anywhere... With rising global salaries and automation... Well, everyone should read Freedman's and Bernstein's books on modern capitalism. Or at least "Wealth of Nations." Amazing how few have read them...


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 102, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4827 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 101):
Or at least "Wealth of Nations."

   A little off-topic, but may I also recommend "The Theory of Moral Sentiments" by Adam Smith.


User currently offlineBLRAviation From India, joined Feb 2009, 348 posts, RR: 14
Reply 103, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4551 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 101):
That is wise business negotiation on the part of GoI. Since that benefits all 9W stockholders and puts enough money into Jet to make them at least short term viable... I see no issue.

Cannot disagree with you more. Bilateral air services capacity is a national asset not one to be frittered away for the benefit of just the shareholders of one private airline.

What does India, not Jet, get in return for this granting of additional capacity? which by the way, was NOT ASKED FOR BY ETIHAD.

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 101):
Don't get me started... the 'middleman culture' of India is pushing jobs elsewhere. I have friends in Import/Export and Outsourcing and both China and India have lost their luster. Their going to Thailand, Indonesia, a trickle to Burma, and a trickle to Vietnam. They can get off the plane anywhere...

Well, I do not know your industry segment, so I cannot comment. There are reasons beyond the obvious for companies to shift manufacturing to other countries, and there are many reasons, and many companies that are opening up shop in India.

And talking of middleman culture, what about the US, which is essentially now a trader, not a manufacturer.



I am on Twitter @BLRAviation
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 104, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 4525 times:

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 103):
And talking of middleman culture, what about the US, which is essentially now a trader, not a manufacturer.

Remarkable comment, indeed. While China is now the #1 manufacturer in the world at $2.9T, the US is #2 at $2.4T. Having off-shored a lot of junk manufacturing of cheesy items to China, the quality and content of US is probably even better than ever.


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 105, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4482 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 104):
Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 103):And talking of middleman culture, what about the US, which is essentially now a trader, not a manufacturer.

Remarkable comment, indeed. While China is now the #1 manufacturer in the world at $2.9T, the US is #2 at $2.4T. Having off-shored a lot of junk manufacturing of cheesy items to China, the quality and content of US is probably even better than ever.

Not to mention the quality and quantity of intellectual property and innovation that is still manufactured in the US, which is still by far second to none. Manufacturing can be farmed out, innovation less so.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13135 posts, RR: 100
Reply 106, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4463 times:
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Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 103):
Cannot disagree with you more. Bilateral air services capacity is a national asset not one to be frittered away for the benefit of just the shareholders of one private airline.

That is where India needs to change. It isn't an asset as much as a tool to motivate other bilateral deals.

But the Etihad and Jet alliance is in India's interest. By creating such partnerships, transportation in/out of India will be enhanced and "transportation is the cornerstone upon which a city builds wealth." Now if you're arguing India should have a better strategy for Air service rights, I agree. But right now there have been too many restrictions. For example, Korea is offering quite a bit in return for a few bilateral changes but since Korea isn't getting their changes, work is being sent to Thailand. Cest la vie.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 103):
I do not know your industry segment, so I cannot comment. There are reasons beyond the obvious for companies to shift manufacturing to other countries, and there are many reasons, and many companies that are opening up shop in India.

Its not just my industry. My best friend is in the outsourcing industry and it has become too difficult to outsource or audit an outsourced job in India. He married a woman high up in the hedge fund industry, so their social circle has a very interesting global perspective What they talk about at parties (now generally children parties) usually happens about two years later. What they're not talking about (nor their friends) is moving any more money into India. That does not bode well... I'm sure business is opening in India. But look at the GDP growth rate, it isn't where it needs to be. Look at the so called "Asian Tigers" (Thailand, Malaysia, and Indonesia) and look at their growth rates. Its all about enabling foreign investment. I'm proposing solutions to grow India's GDP. Part of that is to enable business instead of handicap it. E.g., the states in India being allowed to interfere in foreign direct investment:
http://www.fibre2fashion.com/news/ap...ws/newsdetails.aspx?news_id=147255

I've seen the issues in IT outsourcing, auto parts, and now retail...

Its time for India to stop trying to protect AI and instead just enable the other airlines to grow. If AI grows... good for them. If Bernstein ever writes a new edition of "A Splendid Exchange, how trade shaped the world," he should use AI as an example of how protectionism slows a nation's growth.

Quoting BLRAviation (Reply 103):
And talking of middleman culture, what about the US, which is essentially now a trader, not a manufacturer.

My point was more in the un-needed added layers of middlemen in India that are protected. I would worry if India's economy was growing as slowly as the USA's. We're a mature economy with a high standard of living. That gives us more in reserves to make mistakes.

What I'd like to see is India set up aviation policies to challenge the mid-east carriers. India should be the dominant hub! But their need to restrict air service agreements slows hub development. Then there are added middlemen to transition from one flight to the other (customs and other delays). India has HUGE O&D traffic to 'seed' a hub. Yes, low yield, but it is *far* superior to the mid-East O&D traffic.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 105):
Not to mention the quality and quantity of intellectual property and innovation that is still manufactured in the US, which is still by far second to none. Manufacturing can be farmed out, innovation less so.

Are you a registered Republican? It is impossible to counter your statements (even with facts) without looking unpatriotic.


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 108, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 107):
Are you a registered Republican? It is impossible to counter your statements (even with facts) without looking unpatriotic.

I have read your comment several times, but still struggling to comprehend what you are trying to communicate. Are you saying the US is not the hub of innovation and IP, and that innovation can be outsourced? Regardless, what has being Republican or Democrat got anything to do with that???


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 109, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4431 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 106):
India has HUGE O&D traffic to 'seed' a hub. Yes, low yield, but it is *far* superior to the mid-East O&D traffic.

That is true, but has that ship sailed now? Further, even if India were to build a huge, efficient, modern hub without process bottlenecks, could an Indian carrier compete on costs with the ME3 and their cost and tax advantages?


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13135 posts, RR: 100
Reply 110, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4399 times:
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Quoting comorin (Reply 104):
Remarkable comment, indeed. While China is now the #1 manufacturer in the world at $2.9T, the US is #2 at $2.4T. Having off-shored a lot of junk manufacturing of cheesy items to China, the quality and content of US is probably even better than ever.

   And manufacturing is growing quickly in the USA thanks to:
1. Robotics ( a field my brother switched to)
2. China and Thailand tipping the $4/hour wage rate.

But we need to get down our trade deficit which is fuel and manufacturing... We are improving.

Next step is the 'fast food robots' which will free up labor force for manufacturing...

Quoting sankaps (Reply 109):
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 106):
India has HUGE O&D traffic to 'seed' a hub. Yes, low yield, but it is *far* superior to the mid-East O&D traffic.

That is true, but has that ship sailed now?

  
1. Not with how Indonesia, Malaysia, and Thailand are growing. MAA and DEL are well located as transfer hubs. There is still time. Heck, India could 'undermine' the mid-east carriers on quite a few routes thanks to their domestic O&D.
2. India has their own O&D growth which will help 'seed' new flights.
3. Convenience. High O&D means frequency...
4. Dubai/EK being in a credit crunch. For now, DWC cannot be built out. The ship will have sailed when DOH, AUH, and DWC have finished the *next* round of expansions.

But with high O&D traffic, there is always opportunity.


Quoting sankaps (Reply 109):
could an Indian carrier compete on costs with the ME3 and their cost and tax advantages?

The only real issue is the fuel tax.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineLJ From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4430 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4370 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 110):

1. Not with how Indonesia, Malaysia, and Thailand are growing. MAA and DEL are well located as transfer hubs. There is still time. Heck, India could 'undermine' the mid-east carriers on quite a few routes thanks to their domestic O&D.

However, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia already have ailrines which connect Europe (and in some cases expanding). Moreover, the GA is already in bed with EY and is expanding in Europe. By the time Indian airlines have a network around Europe or US, the Thai, Indonesians and maybe Malaysians already have done it.


User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 112, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4324 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 108):
Are you saying the US is not the hub of innovation and IP, and that innovation can be outsourced?

I am saying exactly that, A $600 Billion Apple spends only few million on R&D. HP which has "invent" in its name last invented decade back. We are trying to innovate wind energy, Germany has 20 years lead on it. We want to innovate Solar, China cut panel prices in half and killed the industry.

The only innovation in this country happens in Pharmaceutical sector. Otherwise innovation left the building.

Take 787 program, CFRP innovation comes from Japan, Boeing has the vision to integrate available worldwide advanced technologies. Not the technology itself. Every American Corporation want to be like that.

BTW, discussion was about manufacturing. Most of our manufacturing numbers are from defense production. I may be wrong but mining and utilities(oil & gas) is also bundled under manufacturing.

Apple pays $8 per iPhone to Foxconn. Do you think any US manufacturer can produce at the price. EPA never allow to set up such a polluting factory.

Apologize to sidetrack the thread.


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 2015 posts, RR: 24
Reply 113, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 4262 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 109):
That is true, but has that ship sailed now?

No. The cost advantage of the Gulf Three will never be strong enough to overcome the benefits of o/d to the huge markets in India. But India does need those hubs.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 114, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

With the 9W-Etihad deal, looks like major maintenance will move to Gamco.....so 9w will be another line mx Airline.
This will lead to a reduction of 50-60% staff in maintenance.

With Nick being asked to go and hamid ali joining in......I hope NG is aware of the situation.



Think of the brighter side!
User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 115, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4073 times:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 112):
A $600 Billion Apple spends only few million on R&D

Bad guesswork. Apple spent $ 3.4B in R&D in 2012.
  


User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4069 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 115):
Bad guesswork. Apple spent $ 3.4B in R&D in 2012.

FYI. Most of it is in Israel. Not in USA.


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 117, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 4067 times:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 116):
FYI. Most of it is in Israel. Not in USA.

Appreciate any links on the subject.


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 118, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4018 times:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 112):

The only innovation in this country happens in Pharmaceutical sector. Otherwise innovation left the building.

Wow. Just wow!

(Note again I am referring to IP, design, and innovation, which are higher order attributes than manufacturing and programming which can, should, and is easily outsourced to the lowest cost providers.)

So I guess game-changing products and services like the iPod, iPhone, iPad, Facebook, Twitter, Google and its various products, global standard operating systems as well as industrial, financial, business, and consumer software, aerospace (the biggest export industry for the US), avionics, defense and space products and technology, and financial instruments such as CDO and synthetics, to name just a few that jump to mind from the last decade alone, are all based on IP, designs, and innovations in other countries then?

Learn something new everyday!    

Of course innovation happens in other places too (though not much in India that is of global consequence, I might add). Sure too that the US does not lead in innovation in every single area. But the hotbed of innovation and IP development, the "nerve center", remains the US.

Quoting comorin (Reply 115):
Bad guesswork. Apple spent $ 3.4B in R&D in 2012.

Why let facts get in the way of sweeping generalizations?  
Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 116):
FYI. Most of it is in Israel. Not in USA.

Sure, if you say so! 
Quoting comorin (Reply 117):
Appreciate any links on the subject.

Yes, that would be nice, wouldn't it?


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 119, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3907 times:

Quoting sankaps (Reply 118):
Quoting comorin (Reply 117):
Appreciate any links on the subject.

Yes, that would be nice, wouldn't it?

Thank you for taking over the rest of the rebuttals! I started to, but my mind just got boggled...   

Hyper-efficient Capital Markets that understand risk, as expressed in the Silicon Valley VC community, ensure that the US continues to lead in innovation. Let's not forget the NSF, JPL, Lawrence Livermore, the various private research centers like IBM Research and schools like Stanford U. Case closed.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13135 posts, RR: 100
Reply 120, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3890 times:
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Quoting LJ (Reply 111):
However, Malaysia, Thailand, Vietnam and Indonesia already have ailrines which connect Europe (and in some cases expanding). Moreover, the GA is already in bed with EY and is expanding in Europe. By the time Indian airlines have a network around Europe or US, the Thai, Indonesians and maybe Malaysians already have done it.

There is still time. A high O&D hub will always 'eat the lunch' of a low O&D hub due to passengers inherent desire to avoid extra connections. The only advantage the mid-east hubs have is they will be in range of Europe with the MAX and NEO. Now while you point out the direct flights from the initial O&D sources, they will be so far away it will only be to the European hubs...

But European airlines want more access to India. So their governments will offer more rights to Indian airlines. This will allow flights directly to STR, BER, and other European 'secondary cities' that will not be possible from Vietnam, Indonesia, or Malaysia. But with India's O&D traffic, those flights will be possible. And if India built nice terminals with an excellent 'hubbing experience,' they would gain a large fraction of the market.

Once viable flights are established in India, they would start to pull traffic from the lower O&D mid-east hubs making them less competitive. But it would take friendly service, easy connections, and similar pricing for the Indian hubs to compete.

The Indian hubs would also meet the needs of Indonesia/Malaysia/Thailand to the mid-east and hopefully Africa too. For flights to Africa, the trip length would be much less than through the mid-east hubs (in general, I know specific routes it would not matter economically) that the Indian airlines would be at a high advantage. Obviously not 100% of the market, but enough to be the large hubs.

I personally sit back and wonder why MAA and DEL are not hubs of a nature to be spoken of like DXB, IST, or CGK's size and growth. They have the local demand and geographic location. What is holding them back is GoI policies more than anything.

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 112):
The only innovation in this country happens in Pharmaceutical sector. Otherwise innovation left the building.

Huh? Software is still very innovate in the USA.
The big growth is right now in robotics. For them, the limit is vendor parts. (Ironic, eh?)
Love or hate it, the US innovated with fracking.
Farming in the USA, despite its faults, is also very innovative.
The film industry is still world leading (more so with advertising)
And I'm in aviation. We're becoming the vendor to the world.

The US hit a tough row... but it will improve.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 113):
No. The cost advantage of the Gulf Three will never be strong enough to overcome the benefits of o/d to the huge markets in India. But India does need those hubs.

Infrastructure and changes in some government processes to enable their growth. Ironically, one way is to open air service rights to India in trade for Indian airline rights to fly elsewhere.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 121, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3869 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 120):
There is still time. A high O&D hub will always 'eat the lunch' of a low O&D hub due to passengers inherent desire to avoid extra connections.

Lightsaber, no doubt non-stops are preferred over connections.

But are you talking of hub O&D only, or country O&D? A large chunk of India O&D connect anyway from smaller cities, so for them connecting in DXB or AUH is no worse than connecting in a BOM or DEL hub.

In fact for many customers, an int'l to int'l connection may be preferred (eg CCU-DXB-LON rather than CCU-DEL-LON) as they get to benefit from an international soft and hard product along on both legs (eg free food and free / available booze). Same would be the case for 9W's feed into AUH.


User currently offlinecomorin From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4896 posts, RR: 16
Reply 122, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 3858 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 120):
What is holding them back is GoI policies more than anything.

And local politics. GoI policies have to run the gauntlet of State Govt fiefdoms with their colorful armies of 'rowdies' and what not. And then there is corruption, an a scale that would put Hedge Funds to shame.

As for COK, MAA, BLR et al I agree with you and thought that IT and Paramount would result in the rebirth of the South. Alas, they bit the dust. Fortunately, despite everything, India's massive economic growth will find new players and propel these airports into hubs someday.


User currently offlineblr380 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 123, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3784 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 122):
What is holding them back is GoI policies more than anything.

Speaking of GoI hurdles, 9W - EY deal is currently on hold:

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...8709/jet-etihad-deal-put-hold.html

I guess these hurdles mean greasing more hands - unfortunately.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13135 posts, RR: 100
Reply 124, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3781 times:
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Quoting sankaps (Reply 121):
But are you talking of hub O&D only, or country O&D? A large chunk of India O&D connect anyway from smaller cities, so for them connecting in DXB or AUH is no worse than connecting in a BOM or DEL hub.

Agreed. But if the Indian cities (e.g, MAA) could act as a hub adding in connecting traffic to boost revenue, they would be quite competitive. For secondary cities to secondary cities, it will be a free for all. By no means am I predicting the end of the mid-east hubbing airlines. What I am emphatic about is there is a business case for better hubbing by Indian airlines.

Quoting comorin (Reply 122):
And local politics. GoI policies have to run the gauntlet of State Govt fiefdoms with their colorful armies of 'rowdies' and what not. And then there is corruption, an a scale that would put Hedge Funds to shame.

I lumped that all into 'GoI policies'.

Quoting blr380 (Reply 123):
Speaking of GoI hurdles, 9W - EY deal is currently on hold:

Ugh... and some people wonder why Indian aviation doesn't thrive...

Quoting comorin (Reply 122):
India's massive economic growth will find new players and propel these airports into hubs someday.

India certainly has the potential. But they have too high of a corruption index to move up too far.
MPMG has a long report on the subject.
http://www.kpmg.com/IN/en/IssuesAndI...KPMG_Bribery_Survey_Report_new.pdf


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineblrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1423 posts, RR: 3
Reply 125, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 3745 times:

Quoting blr380 (Reply 123):

Speaking of GoI hurdles, 9W - EY deal is currently on hold:

http://www.deccanherald.com/content/...8709/jet-etihad-deal-put-hold.html

I guess these hurdles mean greasing more hands - unfortunately.

I don't understand the hand-wringing over it. Regulatory approval is a must in all countries when big mergers/takeovers take place, even in the US. And the regulatory authorities go over the agreement to ensure that it is in accordance with the law of the land. Even mergers in US like US/American, NWA/Delta etc all took quite a few months to clear.

And Naresh Goyal is also a NRI, and his Tailwinds company is registered in Isle of Mann, and the ownership is buried in multiple layers. So SEBI asking for more details and/or asking them to restructure certain parts of the deal is not strange, neither does it indicate "greasing of palms".


User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 126, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 3705 times:

Quoting blr380 (Reply 123):

A 24% stakeholder should not act like they own 51%. I guess EY overplayed their hand in management changes even before the deal is closed or India still has bad memories of East India Company.


User currently offlineVTORD From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3634 times:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 126):
A 24% stakeholder should not act like they own 51%

EY paid something like a 32% premium on the list price for the stake so I would not blame them for acting like they have 51% really.....I am not able to find the exact article that mentioned both numbers

And not sure what it means or implies vis-a-vis Jetihad-SEBI concerns but per airlineroute.net EY is using 9W 332 on AUH-DME effective June 16.



Get your facts first. Then you may distort them as you like.
User currently offlineDTW2HYD From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 1972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 128, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3618 times:

Quoting comorin (Reply 117):
Appreciate any links on the subject.

Apple spends money to open a new R&D center to hire Texas Instruments' employee in Israel for their own processor design. They had contract with Samsung (which had a factory in Texas, US) cancelled the contract, paid a Taiwanese Chip manufacturer (TSMC) for tooling and moved production to Taiwan.

http://www.cultofmac.com/204541/inte...ire-former-ti-engineers-in-israel/

US still owns lot of patents from the past, but loosing speed because Govt cannot afford it and Corporate America doesn't want to spend on R&D.


User currently offlinesankaps From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2255 posts, RR: 2
Reply 129, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 3559 times:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 128):
Apple spends money to open a new R&D center to hire Texas Instruments' employee in Israel for their own processor design. They had contract with Samsung (which had a factory in Texas, US) cancelled the contract, paid a Taiwanese Chip manufacturer (TSMC) for tooling and moved production to Taiwan.

So this factoid is enough for you to say Apple (and by extension the US) is no longer an innovator and to personally attack those who beg to differ, starting with:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 107):
Are you a registered Republican? It is impossible to counter your statements (even with facts) without looking unpatriotic.

And to claim:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 112):
I am saying exactly that, A $600 Billion Apple spends only few million on R&D.

And then to assert:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 116):
FYI. Most of it is in Israel. Not in USA.

When in fact:

Quoting comorin (Reply 115):
Bad guesswork. Apple spent $ 3.4B in R&D in 2012.

So essentially you are saying this TI employee in Israel accounts for most of Apple's $3.4B R&D, and then use this claim to postulate that:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 128):
US still owns lot of patents from the past, but loosing speed because Govt cannot afford it and Corporate America doesn't want to spend on R&D.

Would love to see some data behind this claim as well!

However I do agree with this remark you made on the EY-9W situation:

Quoting DTW2HYD (Reply 126):
A 24% stakeholder should not act like they own 51%.

Exactly. They need to move more judiciously and thoughtfully.


User currently offlineHAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 31684 posts, RR: 56
Reply 130, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3401 times:

AI B787 Flying Display at the Paris Airshow .....  


Think of the brighter side!
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