jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (3 months 1 week 10 hours ago) and read 16443 times:
Quoting Mariner: Nothing yet about improvements to the terminal. I believe that at the big meeting with the state, the airport and Frontier, an expansion of the holding area was considered top priority.
Well they do have a overflow area setup in the restaurant, any idea if it was converted to a sterile area?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22874 posts, RR: 87 Reply 2, posted (3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16420 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 1): Well they do have a overflow area setup in the restaurant, any idea if it was converted to a sterile area?
I'm not sure that it can be.
I haven't been to TTN, but a chum who was there says that the restaurant is up a flight of stairs and the TSA/sterile area is down a flight of stairs. He sent me photos of it and that made sense to me but you've been there, you'd know much better than I.
As you quoted from the previous thread, I'm told the sterile area was the major topic at the recent airport/Frontier/NJ state meeting but I guess they're waiting on the building engineer's report.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (3 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 16367 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 2): I haven't been to TTN, but a chum who was there says that the restaurant is up a flight of stairs and the TSA/sterile area is down a flight of stairs. He sent me photos of it and that made sense to me but you've been there, you'd know much better than I.
Yes, it is up a flight of stairs from the lobby, but when they used it for overflow seating, I thought their might have been a door to it from the 2nd floor and a staircase that goes to the sterile area. If its not sterile and one must go back down the staircase to the lobby and down to the boarding level and thru security then improving the sterile area is a big deal. Hopefully the engineers report comes soon. They need to start ASAP.
A quick temporary solution would be moving the baggage claim to a temporary building, a trailer perhaps and moving security into the old baggage claim area this would give them the area where security is now and the current non-secure seating area plus they could probably find some room in the old baggage claim area now the security area for some sterile side seating. This would require a TSA agent to guard where the current entrance to the security checkpoint is. Could the Sherrifs Department (current TTN security) do it or would it require a TSA agent.
point2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1964 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15962 times:
It appears as if Mercer County Executives are doing their jobs and making a stink with the FAA about not shutting down the TTN tower because of the sequestration. Hopefully, the letter sent on behalf of TTN keeping the tower operative will be viewed positively by the FAA and will not have to cause uncertainty with F9 and its plans for the airport and area.
Maybe since they're only a few hours from DC, maybe as many as possible of the County Execs need to travel down to the FAA offices and just camp outside their door and make their presence known, and not leave until they're guaranteed that the tower will stay open............ could work???
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (3 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 15944 times:
I'm glad Mercer County Execs are stepping up, it really disappoints me that just when things look like they may be taking a turn for the better at the airport we're faced with obsticales that need not be there. I hope an agreement is reached and the Sequestration can be avoided for the good of all of the goverment programs that truly need to be in place.
EliNYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (3 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 15804 times:
It's a really strange choice on FAA's part - when facing a budget shortfall (and there is a separate discussion on whether it is an actual cut or just a freeze), they actually cut a program which is way more efficient than their own (federal employees staffed) towers. One might think they should actually shed off some of the fed towers to contractors to save money... But hey, who am I to say.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22874 posts, RR: 87 Reply 10, posted (3 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 15193 times:
As long as TTN has been on the Frontier route map, there has been a debate about TTN-DEN and the too-short runway at TTN (for the distance).
I am told that CEO Siegel has addressed that directly with the staff. Apparently, he says they don't presently have an aircraft that could do it but it is an issue they are actively working on.
It suggests there is a solution, but I can't think what it is. I very much doubt that TTN is going to lengthen the runway but - I suppose anything is possible.
I'm guessing they'd have to take out too many seats to reduce the weight of the A319 sufficiently making it not viable economically?
I'm not a Tech Wallah, but I can't think that the new A320's coming later this year could do it - wouldn't they be heavier? Is there a "special performance" A319 (sharklets?) that Frontier doesn't yet have?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22874 posts, RR: 87 Reply 12, posted (3 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 15105 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 11): I think that F9 is going to be keeping 5 e190s that they weren't planning on before, perhaps that is it or your right could be a sharklet thing.
I don;t know where that came from. It was claimed on the Frontier thread - but it isn't what Bryan Bedford said on the cc:
Bedford: The game plan is working out of the pro-rate flying under the Frontier brand."
He suggested various other uses for the E190's - sale or lease to anther party or even an expansion of the Republic/Ceasar's contract, but the intention is that the E190's go.
Now - perhaps the E190's could be useful at TTN, but Siegel said, just yesterday about TTN-DEN, that "at present, we do not have an airplane with the right engine performance, but this is an issue we are actively working on." so I guess he means that the E190's couldn't do it either.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2103 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 14899 times:
Quoting point2point (Reply 4): Hopefully, the letter sent on behalf of TTN keeping the tower operative will be viewed positively by the FAA
Quoting EliNYC (Reply 6): It's a really strange choice on FAA's part - when facing a budget shortfall (and there is a separate discussion on whether it is an actual cut or just a freeze),
I still think there's a lot of "The Sky is Falling" bloviating. Time will tell if the politicians and the senior leadership at the FAA have all but lost their creditability.
If towers do close; my personal thoughts there are enough airports without schedule commercial operations which could shut down before those the likes of TTN. The airspace above TTN between the NYC and Philly ATC Centers is said to be the busiest air corridor in the U.S. It is also a major westward turning point.
Fox Business News is all over the proposed sequestration this morning saying the FAA actually has more federal money this the 2013 fiscal year than they did last year.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 14838 times:
Yep, goverment doesn't like cuts so their going to make it hurt as much as possible to show what kind of horrible things happen when they have to cut back. Do you really think they needed to stop White House tours?
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2103 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (3 months 18 hours ago) and read 14638 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 14): Do you really think they needed to stop White House tours?
Additionally the national news media was reporting last evening the annual White House Easter egg hunt is on the chopping block too; under the sequestration umbrella. But the TSA can go out and spend millions on new uniforms. Go figure.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
9w748capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 412 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (3 months 18 hours ago) and read 14629 times:
Parents are using TTN as an alternative to PHL in a few weeks, curious to see how it goes. One hiccup already though - the rental car facility on-airport closes at 2 PM on sunday - their flight out is at 6 I believe. Awesome!
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (3 months 9 hours ago) and read 14468 times:
Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 16): Parents are using TTN as an alternative to PHL in a few weeks, curious to see how it goes. One hiccup already though - the rental car facility on-airport closes at 2 PM on sunday - their flight out is at 6 I believe. Awesome!
If Mercer County wants to see TTN succeed then they have to make sure that the needed facilities are in place. They need to lower the rent in exchange for longer hours. Its also been several months since they hired the engineer to evaluate the terminal to fix the problems with the lack of facilities post security. If they are waiting for the sequester to be decided they should already have a plan for it. You have to spend money to make money unfortunately. I fear that if people find the facilities to not be adequate then they wont use the airport again and they will tell their friends and family of their experience. I hope that announcements are coming soon.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (3 months 7 hours ago) and read 14386 times:
I just read some comments in a story about taxes going up that tell Mercer County not to build the "parking garage". Is the new parking area going to be a parking garage?? That would explain why it would be so expensive and why it would cost $200,000 to design.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2103 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (3 months 6 hours ago) and read 14374 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 18): That would explain why it would be so expensive and why it would cost $200,000 to design.
From my days as a contracting officer in support of a Civil Engineering Unit; $200,000 is cheap in the design arena. Parking garages are a no-brainer.
The planner has to have an idea of how many parking spaces he needs. You tell the architect the garage design needs to model (municipalities choosing) and supplement it with any modifications and let the architect and auto-cad at it. Rule # one is stay away from words like "should", "could" and "want" (You need) as they tend to take on an appearance of their own in a courtroom.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (3 months 6 hours ago) and read 14352 times:
So with a cost of $2.5 million to build and a design cost of $200k, it would likely be a parking garage? Am I right to say that a parking lot should never cost $200K to design?
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2103 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 14199 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 20): Am I right to say that a parking lot should never cost $200K to design?
A best answer would be size and the region where the project is located matters. I suspect the 200K design estimate was taken from total anticipated cost of the construction. It looks like they may be using roughly 9.8% of total estimated construction cost. From my perch 9.8% appears to be on the high side. 10% is usually the magic number .
The government will normally obtain a estimate from a neutral firm outside of the immediate catchment area normally recognized to be 50-100 miles. This alone may save millions of dollars on a larger project. It may cost 5K up front but pays for itself in arrears.
I've seen design cost in the 6% range elsewhere. The governments estimate and the contractors estimate are also in play. If there is a significant deviation between the two estimates both parties would normally meet; ironically after a contractor is selected. I suspect there is some some fluff built in to the TTN project. After-all a parking garage is a lot of steel and concrete.
A architect friend tells me the design of parking garages are estimated in the 4-7% range. She emphasized there are variables. Engineers use design software which is based on square footage where the cost of steel, concrete and lumber can be manipulated as the cost go up and down. Most municipalities have a fixed fee per square foot. In the home building new construction arena it was $145.00 per square foot in Alaska and $98.00 in Tennessee when I checked last which excludes land.
If it were a federal job the Davis-Bacon wage Act also comes into play which tends to increase prices.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 412 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 14169 times:
Last Friday I flew TTN-MSY and returned MSY-TTN on Monday. Both flights only had about 3 seats open and it was nearly the same people on the return flight as was on the outbound.
I agree with all of the comments about the seating area in Trenton. With a full A319, there were people sitting on the floor and on their carryon luggage. It's certainly not a place you want to arrive too early for your flight as you will be bored to death.
The aircraft touched down in TTN at 2:10 and I was in my car and leaving the airport by 2:30 - and only because I was in row 14. Both flights were on time - hats off to F9!
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1145 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 14148 times:
Jet setter, how did they present the overflow seating in the former restaurant area, were there any signs? Did you have any trouble parking?
25 airfrnt: More politics, designed to get as many people to squeal as possible to their local congressman.
26 GentFromAlaska: Here is the tower closure list from the FAA URL http://www.faa.gov/news/media/fct_closed.pdf
27 jerseyguy: . How bad will conditions have to be before Frontier cancels flights, will low clouds now cause cancelations?
28 GentFromAlaska: I for one didn't know TTN was a contract tower vs a FAA civil service employee staffed tower. It appears the contracted airport towers took the brunt
29 mariner: I hope not. The outsourcing of ground staff is a saving of millions of dollars a year and a fair number of Frontier's outstations are already outsour
30 jerseyguy: Not sure why F9 would reconsider outsourcing their stations, it makes the company more profitable and doesn't cause a degradation of service. I don't
31 jerseyguy: The FAA has said that airports could assume costs of control tower operations if the wished to keep towers open. I think TTN should consider a small P
32 GentFromAlaska: I would argue there is indeed an effect where loyalty to a company enters the equation. With that said aviation is a strange bedfellow. WN is a prime
33 mariner: Southwest has always been able to outsource ground staff at any station with fewer than 12 departures a day - and does so. At its peak this summer, F
34 jerseyguy: Since 5 flights a day are starting soon April 8th. Has TTN come up with any plans for the improvements needed in the terminal. With 5 flights a day i
35 mariner: I haven't heard anything. They're all grown-ups and aware of the situation, so I don't worry about it - I wait to be told what may happen. mariner
36 jerseyguy: Yes they are grown-ups but they are also bureaucrats (remember this is a county run airport). The only reason I "worry" is that I want this project t
37 n7371f: Skirting the truth. Southwest has had a contract that allows for outsourcing stations under 12 daily flights - but when it added Panama City and Char
38 GentFromAlaska: They did? Two or so weeks ago I recall reading F9 was still evaluating if they were going to fly to TTN if the tower did close. I remember the story
39 mariner: I'm sympathetic because I think everyone wants it to work out and - so far - they seem to be doing a fair job of it. I'm pretty sure that Frontier kn
40 mariner: Here we go again. It is a contractual fact - how is it skirting the truth? http://www.timesdispatch.com/busines...1-156a-5362-90fc-05900a6b4005.html
41 GentFromAlaska: TTN could always install the covered plastic walkways outside of the terminal to handle the overflow commonly seen in Alaska and elsewhere I suppose
42 GentFromAlaska: http://www.seattlepi.com/news/articl...-despite-tower-closing-4377177.php [/quote] Great. I don't think the TTN tower closure is a big of a deal. TTN
43 jerseyguy: Yes, lots of planes use the very close by Yardley VOR as a southern approach to the NYC area http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&sour...07532&spn
44 mariner: I'm sure they would prefer to have the tower, but this article in the Denver Post helps to explain some of the process: http://www.denverpost.com/bre
45 jerseyguy: I think they are referring to the many attempts to start commerical service that didn't work out.
46 mariner: That interpretation can only apply if anyone knows that - which, I suggest, the majority of people in Denver don't. mariner
47 jerseyguy: An article from the Trentonian quotes Brian Hughes Mercer County Executive as saying "We estimate it costs about $60,000 a month to keep the tower ope
48 GentFromAlaska: If Princeton or some other nearby University offers a flight training program TTN may want to investigate and diversify as a college flight training p
50 jerseyguy: Anybody know what kind of profit that the county is making on F9 gate rent and landing fees? Did they give them dirt cheap fees or are they actually m
51 mariner: $18,558 a year in terminal fees. Landing fees are a variable depending on the number of flights/passengers. When the Freeholders voted on the origina
52 jerseyguy: I don't know if I trust the numbers from a paper who said Frontier was flying an Airbus 219
53 jerseyguy: Frontier "How Sweet (16) it is" Sale $16 each way CMH-TTN or TTN-CMH
54 jerseyguy: Since my former post seems to be screwed up, I'll add I don't know if this is just a marketing oppotunity or if the loads are bad. Its available every
55 jerseyguy: It appears Frontier has some changes in store for TTN 1.MSY goes seasonal on August 12th. 2 RDU goes to 5X a week June 11th (Loses Tuesday) 3 CMH swit
56 GentFromAlaska: I think it would be neat see PHF connected to TTN which would give TTN another connection to DEN the three or so days of the week the PHF-DEN is serv
57 jerseyguy: Yeah, I was researching taking a trip there because F9 had service and I had never been. Fares only got reasonable starting in June and I found out i
58 GentFromAlaska: Norfolk is still a decent huff from PHF. Chesapeake and Yorktown in the northern Tidewater peninsula ain't chopped liver. I remember flying in and ou
59 Flytravel: I think the distance isn't long for PHF-TTN, as a NJ to VA trip is typically done by drive. It should be atleast an 8hr drive for F9 to consider flyin
60 jerseyguy: Mercer County Freeholders consider funding the tower http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...cer_county_freeholders_disc_1.html
61 MSYtristar: It wouldn't surprise me to see MSY return in, say, mid November...that's when traffic really picks up, and when all four cruise lines return. Me too,
62 GentFromAlaska: "County Executive Brian Hughes has tried to assure passengers that they will be safe." I think it comes down to public education. Is the TTN flying p
63 jerseyguy: First off PHL and EWR are not options because F9 and Mercer County don't want to lose traffic to those other airports. As well alot of people would s
64 enilria: I said since day one that it wouldn't make it year-round. I'm surprised it lasts till August. The fact it goes that long is a good sign that it will
65 mariner: In a letter to the staff last week, Robert Ashcroft discussed the fleet - the incoming N954FR is now registered to Frontier: http://www.planespotters
66 GentFromAlaska: I disagree Its up to the flying public to decide which airport they want to use. I don't think there would be any value added in using PHL in that PH
67 jerseyguy: I agree its up to the public as to what apart they want to use but as I said before F9 and Mercer County don't want to lose them to PHL and EWR Hopef
68 rangercarp: I think it is here to stay, other than some potential minor adjustments. News coverage of the sequester is quickly fading, and CNBC reported this eve
69 jerseyguy: If the tower remains unmanned, what kind of conditions would cause Frontier to divert and would a tower reduce a lot of those diversions?
70 mastyc: Even if the sequester ends, the contract towers don't reopen.
71 GentFromAlaska: I think The N.J. state DOT could easily identify the 60K or whatever it takes in other excess transportation funds which could be reprogrammed to fund
72 STT757: The NJ State Transportation trust fund is bankrupt, it's funded by the State Gasoline tax which is the third lowest in the Nation and has not been rai
73 mariner: Interesting move - suspending flights for two months in September, the low time, while the airport is upgraded: http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2..
74 rampart: On the contrary. It was worse than last year, I think more so in South Jersey. Many school districts used up their snow days. We were frozen for a go
75 GentFromAlaska: I don't know what condition the TTN taxi ways are in. Ten or so years ago while Juneau's single runway was being repaved AS departed and landed on an
76 mariner: They may do the taxiway work at the same time, Gent, but this is primarily about the EMAS at the end of the main runway (it's already done on the sho
77 jerseyguy: Yeah that's when all of the really cheap airfares come out, I love those 2 months. None of the airports taxiways are long enough to land a plane on.
78 GentFromAlaska: I do too. September is a great time of year to visit MCO and the rest of Florida. The crowds are less, the temps are cooler , the kids are in school
79 jerseyguy: I wonder if there is money in the Tourism or economic development budget. Especially since a lot of big companies from the Princeton area fly their co
80 IllinoisMan: Let's see if I got this right. They're going to close the tower saving $60,000 a month and make using TTTN more dangerous, but now they are going to
81 jerseyguy: The sequester is all about politics and making sure that people think that there is no room for cuts without it hurting. One company wanted to charge
82 mariner: Pretty much. But just to make the point - it is the FAA that is closing the tower, not the airport, or Frontier. If this makes the airport more "dang
83 jerseyguy: Of course it makes the airport more dangerous because having an eye on the runway would make it safer. Its just a matter of how much more dangerous it
84 jerseyguy: Mariner, In the US, that is a phrase meaning that someone thinks that something cost too much or someone gets paid too much for their job. It doesn't
85 mariner: Then there are a lot of dangerous airports in the US. I'm not not sure why TTN is copping so much attention, when there are other, busier airports th
86 jerseyguy: I just looked at a story regarding Bloomington-Normal airport suing the FAA. Perhaps while this is in court there will be an injunction that will sto
87 mariner: Maybe: http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/03/...-sues-faa-over-control-tower-cuts/ I understand that BMI and other airports, such as GEG - which has mo
88 jerseyguy: The difference between the cost of living and therefore salaries between Bloomington and Trenton A $50,000 job in Bloomington would be the equivalent
89 mariner: But that only indicates equivalent value, not necessarily actual pay. The point is that there may be ways of reducing the cost, making it more attrac
90 enilria: I have a feeling that F9 encouraged the timing of this, rather than being upset about it.
91 jerseyguy: I believe our good friend Daniel Shurz pretty much confirms it in a statement released by Frontier. "We thank the County Executive Brian Hughes and c
92 mariner: Oh, sure, I would. As one of the Airtran CEO's said, he'd like to be able to close down his airline for September. Since the work has to happen - thi
93 GentFromAlaska: To bad we don't have more of this. The Heartland Effect perhaps. And moving on to a new topic: The TTN all-stop and two month closure is going to fre
94 mariner: In other parts of the world, airlines are moving to fully automated check-in. We have it, for most flights down here at AKL - I haven't used a check-
95 jerseyguy: Sure put some kiosks in but don't take away the check-in. Since its not done over here yet, lets not start it at an airport that already doesn't have
96 IllinoisMan: Every pilot flying in and out of TTN should be concerned about their safety. Your about to remove one of the best safety measures you have at an airp
97 mariner: I think not having to stand in line is a considerable improvement, but if you'd rather do that - each to their own. To reiterate, it isn't just TTN,
98 GentFromAlaska: AS turned ANC into a full Kiosk airport in 2004 branded the airport of the future. It looked like a robot check-in area Quite futuristic at the time.
99 jerseyguy: I'm not saying we there can't be kiosks but lets keep 1 agent space available for those that don't want to use it, forcing people to use kiosks is no
100 GentFromAlaska: In the technology arena I remember the day when the flying public thought E-airline tickets were a bad idea. It was more or a trust thing. I loved tha
101 jerseyguy: I actually do, I lost my ticket when connecting in MIA EWR-MIA-SRQ back in the 90s. They had e-tickets but I was flying on a reward ticket I believe
102 mariner: Since I started this, I'll see it through. At the various fully automated airports I've used, there is always a CSA available near the kiosks to help
103 mariner: In the latest schedule extension, TTN-MSY ends on August 12 but resumes on November 8, still as 2 x weekly. I'm very pleased to see that. mariner
104 jerseyguy: Also looking at the new schedule unless I'm missing something TTN-MDW-DEN becomes a connection in MDW rather than a direct flight. DEN-MDW-TTN remains
105 GentFromAlaska: Do we know where the F9 MDW connecter flight originates from?. The reason I ask last August on a WN flight between BNA-MDW-PVD me and dad were seated
106 floridaflyboy: Looks like it's a runway construction issue, rather than a demand thing. According to this article, it will require the suspension of all F9 TTN flig
107 jerseyguy: Actually looking into it further it seems that it is the same plane just a different flight number Because F9 915 arrives MDW at 1150am from TTN. F9
108 mariner: PIT is on my mind, as in TTN-PIT. For some reason, Frontier's few remaining repo flights for Apple have turned up in the OAG - and thus in the OAG thr
109 Frontier14: Jersyguy or anyone know how the Frontier on-time performance at TTN has been over the past three months? Understand the systemwide issues of poor on-t
110 jerseyguy: Looks like the TTN Control Tower got a stay of execution and won't be closed till June 15th http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/n...-faa-towers-budget-
111 GentFromAlaska: Here's another article which brings it a little closer to home. A medical helicopter and Cessna collision at SHD in 2010 http://www.usatoday.com/stor
113 jerseyguy: It looks like maybe the threatened closures might have given TTN free pubilicity. http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...nton-mercer_airport_control_1
114 jerseyguy: I was in the area so I swung by TTN today to see whats new New parking lot looks like its finished but not open yet. The new bar Sky Lounge at Ewing w
115 rampart: I'm really not a fan of those bus station seats. I suppose they are low maintenance. But not comfortable.
116 DBCooper: CLE-PIT is NOT a repo. It is a live flight for Apple Vacations. So is CLE-CVG. So is ORD-STL. None of them carry local traffic - just Apple Vacations
117 mariner: Thanks - I had forgotten that about CLE-PIT. mariner
118 mariner: Today was a big day, wkth the start of the TTN expansion: http://princeton.patch.com/articles/...unches-services-to-five-new-cities "Frontier Launches
119 ScottB: ILG, actually. ILM is in North Carolina. I doubt it's anything that calculated on the part of the newspaper. I'd expect ILG-MCO.[Edited 2013-04-08 13
121 SFOJFK: Just got this from Frontier today. Runway work will cause TTN flights to cease from Sept to Nov 2013. Temporary Schedule Suspension at Trenton-Mercer
122 PHLBOS: One has to wonder why the runway enhancement project didn't take place before F9 started TTN service. Talk about not so great timing. One has to wonde
123 mariner: Availability of Federal funds, perhaps? Originally, it was planned fro this summer, but that was before Frontier turned up and I'm not sure that anyo
124 jerseyguy: When they finally decide and get approval from the board to do it , I think they also need to make sure there are signs throughout the terminal as co
125 jerseyguy: Oh look, the TTN controllers are trying to save their ass and are willing to scare the flying public to do it. Air traffic controllers, pilots protest
126 GentFromAlaska: As it relates to crowded airspace around the greater NYC a sign reminding the the flying public of the sight seeing helicopter and the small airplane
127 jerseyguy: Meanwhile, if it doesn't work and they scare enough people, F9 doesn't fill up planes and leaves.
128 GentFromAlaska: My Magic 8 ball tells me F9 and TTN are in it for the long haul. F9 has certainly found a niche.
129 jerseyguy: I was fooling around with Flight Aware looking at TTN flights and I saw that one of them I believe from FLL came into Gate 2 at TTN. Knowing that Flig
130 jerseyguy: Few updates Sky Lounge at Ewing Bar is now open for business http://flic.kr/p/ebYtrE Grab and Go food/beverage area is also open in the Observation ar
131 jerseyguy: Looks like F9 will be loaning Mercer County money ($450K) to do improvements to the terminal. It is being reported as Bathrooms in the secure area and
132 Frontier14: Anyone know about how much a used jet bridge + transportation + install could cost to replace the broken one at TTN?
133 GentFromAlaska: If TTN plays there cards right and coordinates through the New Jersey State Agent for Surplus Property SASP it could cost them pennies on the dollar.
134 kingcavalier: I believe a big issue with the jet bridge in TTN is, if used, doesn't allow F9 to park two Airbuses side by side on the ramp. In order to fit to the a
135 mariner: From the article: "“This investment by Frontier indicates the airline’s commitment to Trenton-Mercer Airport,” Willmot said." That seems right
136 PHLBOS: That service could be subject to how well B6 does w/its PHL-BOS service (which will start a month from now). Should B6 bomb, I could see F9 giving ei
137 GentFromAlaska: I wonder if there might be some viability to resurrect what was the old Weymouth Naval Air Station; 30 miles or so south of Boston. This would take st
138 jerseyguy: Seems like Mercer County Freeholders are a very careful bunch every time I read about an improvement at the airport. There always seems to be a questi
139 slcdeltarumd11: Amtrak is the real competition. Unless they want to offer frequenecy New England is probably out of the question.
140 Flytravel: Amtrak takes forever on TRE-BOS. What F9 needs if it started it, is an early AM departure out of TTN for TTN-BOS, and many could fly into to BOS this
141 PHLBOS: Unfortunately, there would likely be some serious NIMBY issues with that. Look at the numerous times BED used to offer commercial airline service whe
142 slcdeltarumd11: Talk about incredibly inconvenient........They would need 2x daily minimum to have a chance of success and it would be pretty much all business peopl
143 mariner: I think New England is wide open, there are several possible choices. Maybe it could be the ol' Southwest trick - MHT or PVD and not BOS. I'm not so
144 PHLBOS: If memory serves, most if not all of the airlines that flew TTN-BOS (or BED) either went under (thereby ceasing all operations not just that route) o
145 mariner: Which is the other key to Frontier at TTN - not just low frequency, but, crucially, low fares. mariner
146 mariner: Crossing the i's and dotting the t's. For a small airport with one airline, it is a big decision and there is a debate as to whether a Frontier loan
147 Flytravel: A lot of business travelers of high income live in Princeton-Plainsboro area, Newtown-Yardley, and TTN is a far closer drive without the morning traf
148 jerseyguy: Looks like TTN's tower may just be spared Senate passes bill to ease FAA furloughs http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-...passes-bill-to-ease-faa-furl
149 GentFromAlaska: It looks like the law allows the FAA to redistribute/reapportion upwards of a quarter of a billion dollars the agency was forbidden from touching for
150 enilria: I think given F9's short stint in other focus cities, it is not surprising that TTN might want to see a little more success before committing funds e
151 slcdeltarumd11: Sure some do but most use amtrak more for sure. Fro example lets use Boston students most live in NJ/NY/CT suburbs and its much easier to get to Stam
152 ScottB: Except the sort of ground transportation you suggest just isn't convenient for business travelers. The convenience gained by using TTN in one directi
153 mariner: As in this article, the debate isn't about whether they should take out a loan from Frontier for the terminal improvements: http://www.nj.com/mercer/
154 jerseyguy: Just a shot in the dark, I'm thinking its probably not workable. 2 questions 1. what are the differences in costs per passenger between SRQ and TPA. 2
155 bmibaby737: Can anyone confirm that Frontier Airlines is to receive cn 3205 Airbus A320-214 leased from Aercap?
156 GentFromAlaska: It appears there may be a shift where State National Guard forces receive training prior to deploy to Southwest Asia. The NBC affiliate in Nashville i
157 mariner: As on the last conference call, Frontier is leasing 2 x A320 this year . The second one (August?) may be the one you mean, but I don't know the MSN.
159 mariner: There seems to have been a change to that. Listening to the latest conference call, today, I checked the fleet plan and it now seems Frontier is leas
160 jerseyguy: Ah to think I was concerned that Trenton area NIMBYism was dead. Group requests environmental review of Trenton Mercer Airport http://www.nj.com/merce
161 Flytravel: Not if pax lands in EWR. It's one train to Trenton. And the pax would in one scenario have to take that train anyways if they flew EWR-BOS return BOS
162 Flytravel: Amtrak doesn't service Princeton Junction or Metropark. NJ Transit does along with many more stations in NJ. It goes into NYC where those "inconvenie
163 rampart: Yes they do (and so does NJ Transit as well). I've used Amtrak on both stations, and Metropark is my primary Amtrak station. Both are on Northeast Re
164 slcdeltarumd11: Sorry but they do with amazing FREQUENCY plus great service to Trenton station which gets alot of politicians who can walk its so close to where they
165 Flytravel: There is Amtrak service from MET to BOS, but the travel time is long and nothing earlier than 10am departing on a weekday. Northeast Regional Departs
166 rampart: So they do have service, which you originally said they didn't. If not Metropark, there are at least 4 morning trains from Newark Penn Station to Bos
167 GentFromAlaska: I was getting ready to say I looked at the Amtrak route maps a few months ago and saw a Philadelphia-Trenton-New York route. http://tickets.amtrak.co
168 mariner: If the NIMBYs are stirring, so are the anti-NIMBYs: http://www.trentonian.com/article/20...-mercer-airport-should-be-expanded "Attention leaders of M
169 jerseyguy: Re: 500 feet to the runway Now that the Nimbys have shown up I think went from a slim to none anytime soon
170 mariner: Oh, I;m sure - and the airport website (such as it is) says it won't happen anytime soon, partly to calm the NIMBYs. http://www.state.nj.us/counties/
171 GentFromAlaska: I've never understood that thesis. In my mind the distance any specific airframe wanted to attempt would be based on weight of the aircraft lifting o
172 jerseyguy: I could be wrong but I think the deal is that the A319 can't take off with the amount of fuel and reserve necessary to fly the 1700 miles to DEN with
173 mariner: That's how I understand it. As it is, Frontier has to use the higher thrust A319's at TTN. It's one reason why N902FR is being upgraded to higher thr
174 kingcavalier: I believe F9 needs to start DEN-TTN nonstop with a departure late in the morning to pick up west coast connections. They can continue to flag stop MDW
175 jerseyguy: Yeah, currently the 1 stop in MDW leaves at 715am, no connections possible. If they are so enthusatic about TTN-DEN they need to do a DEN-TTN nonstop
176 MSYtristar: Flights like that have certainly been done before...one-stop in one direction, nonstop in the other. One of the best examples I can think of was an o
177 GentFromAlaska: The ANC-DEN and ANC-FAI flights do when they fly seasonally. F9 flight from ANC arrives in DEN about 5:15 AM daily. The FAI-DEN flight a hour or so l
178 STT757: Again the F9 commercials are running constantly on my local cable provider, Cablevision, as well as on local radio and on highway billboards. Kudos to
179 MSYtristar: I saw a F9 ad at one of the commuter rail stations in between Trenton and Wilmington last week. We were flying by at 110mph but I clearly made out the
180 GentFromAlaska: Correction that should have been FAI-DEN vice ANC-FAI.
181 jerseyguy: Re: large amount of advertising. Where are the billboards? There used to be one on rt 1 south near the Quakerbridge mall but when I went by it a month
182 jerseyguy: They sure have, I was in TTN a few hours ago to grab a bite to eat and watch the planes. Both terminal lots were full and 80% of the remote lot was f
183 GentFromAlaska: For whatever reason TTN is not loaded in www.liveATC.net list of airports. http://www.liveatc.net/search/?icao=KTTN I originally thought it might be b
184 GentFromAlaska: A friend who works for the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) located a excess/surplus property jet loading bridge on a military installation in Sagami, J
185 jerseyguy: Maybe it might be easier if you just emailed them at flyttn at mercercounty.org
186 cessna2: I was looking at flights between RDU-TTN during september and got an error message saying service was suspended until November 7th due to runway upgra
187 mariner: That's what it is: http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...rontier_airlines_will_suspend.html "Frontier Airlines will suspend flights at Trenton-Merce
188 jerseyguy: Just found these photos on facebook. Not sure if this is the ad agency doing the Frontier Trenton Ad campaign but they sure do have alot of pics of Fr
189 jerseyguy: As said in one of the comments "What a great problem for TTN to have" When I was there one day 75-80% of the REMOTE lot was filled. Increased Frontier
190 GentFromAlaska: Does TTN have a means to verify or validate vehicles parked at the airport are travelers or authorized to park there? With free parking I could see p
191 jerseyguy: I don't think its that people are carpooling illegally, I think its because alot of people are using the airport. Frontier estimated they needed 1200
192 mariner: It all seems to be coming to a head, and the last paragraph of this article suggests that a nod (but maybe not yet an approval), has been given for t
193 jerseyguy: I'm in Chicago right now, when I came thru Trenton, the shuttle driver told me "Don't even bother trying to find a space near the terminal on Friday S
194 kingcavalier: Did you notice the installation of a CTX machine? I heard TTN was getting one and that should help with the security delays.
195 jerseyguy: Nope no CTX machine, yet[Edited 2013-05-10 19:40:08]
196 jerseyguy: Its official TTNs tower is safe (atleast until the end of the 2013 fiscal year 9/30/13) http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...ontrol_tower_at_trenton
197 mariner: Pity they don't have a zoo at Trenton - be a good sponsorship for Frontier, as at DEN: http://www.prweb.com/releases/2013/5/prweb10724277.htm "Frontie
198 kingcavalier: The Denver Zoo has some photos on their Facebook of today's dedication of the bird house. I like the A319 winglets.
199 GentFromAlaska: Literally a-fowl. Excellent place to market the critters. Although DCA probably doesn't need the help the National zoo in Washington might be another
200 jerseyguy: The statehouse in Trenton is a zoo but I don't think they can sponsor them. Its gotten better since we elected an Elephant (insert Chris Christie fat
201 mariner: ILG has a new website, which seems to be more concerned with the commercial side of things - as in Frontier - than the other ILG/New Castle airport si
203 gustywinds: Frontier has posted a vacancy for a new City Manager for TTN. https://re2o.ultipro.com/rep1003B/JobBoard/JobDetails.aspx?__ID=*08D7995BB950ECFC I'm no
204 jerseyguy: probably due to ILG. The PHL manager will probably get PHL, MDT and ABE (Till it closes) and TTN Manager will get TTN, ILG
205 mariner: Something has changed at Frontier, and I donlt mean the move to ULCC, hey seem much more conscious of getting the name out. Given the animal associat
206 GentFromAlaska: With F9 being the only game in town in TTN I think this advertising blitz is solely to get the word out. IMO the "Finally An Airline That Won't Take
207 IllinoisMan: I know a few people from New Jersey who were hoping that WN would choose TTN as their next airport in the region, but they did not. I guess we know w
208 mariner: I'm sorry, I flat out don't understand that. Frontier seems happy, the passengers seem happy, the airport seems happy, the businesses in Trenton seem
209 GentFromAlaska: Others might call it a missed opportunity on WN part.
210 jerseyguy: From what I understand, WN was in talks with TTN and they went south when NIMBYs and some of the county freeholders blocked the building of a modern
211 jerseyguy: Does anyone have the info on crosswinds at TTN for the past 3-5 days? I flew in from Chicago on Sunday and we landed on Runway 24 rather than the runw
212 wagz: Runway 6 usage at TTN would normally be the "exception". Prevailing winds in this part of the country are usually westerly. Before mid-week last week
213 jerseyguy: All the planes I've seen land on video or in person (including the flight from MCO I was on in early February) landed on runway 6, I guess I must of j
214 IllinoisMan: WN didn't come to TTN because of the NIMBYs and because they wanted more flights than the airport could handle. I think the NIMBYs should be required
215 mariner: If it wanted more flights than the airport could handle, then Southwest wasn't being very realistic about the airport. It has that chance now, so all
216 jerseyguy: In a recent letter to the editor, Gary Smotrich of Hopewell, NJ wrote a letter in favor of a new terminal. Best I can find out, Mr. Smotrich is actual
217 mariner: Unsurprisingly, perhaps, TTN has decided it doesn't want to borrow more money from Frontier - or anyone - for the terminal improvements. They plannin
218 jerseyguy: What passenger backlash? With the new rule that Frontier has to quote the fare with all fees including this one, nobody is going to know. Only backla
219 mariner: I dunno. I never know how people will react - look at the hoo-haa about the new charges that only apply to those who book through OTA's. I'm always r
220 jerseyguy: They mention having $615K in PFC Fund, is this from past airlines like Delta/Shuttle America or are they talking about some other charges and explain
221 mariner: I've no idea how it is all allocated. Maybe some of it is from that small airline - Streamline? - that was flying TTN-BED for a while. I doubt it wou
222 jerseyguy: An article posted in The Trenton Times, provides alot of new information on the way the airport is going. 1. Frontier extends lease till 2018 (not rea
223 jerseyguy: County executive Brian Hughes talks about $6, $7, $8 a day. At $8 a day assuming 1000 cars a day (currently have 1300 spots and alot of them are being
224 GentFromAlaska: TTN should be weary of charging an exuberant parking fee on the heels of the $4.50 PFC application. The $4.50 as I recall is the maximum fee which ca
225 jerseyguy: Well they did the new lot they built that opened in April for a whole LOT less, supposedly outside contractors wanted $750K and Mercer County DOT did
226 GentFromAlaska: I posted previously F9 should consider marketing their brand at select military bases. Closer to TTN I thought Joint-Base McGuire-Dix-Lakehurst would
227 mariner: But when this came up a month ago, they referred to "construction of a parking facility." http://www.nj.com/mercer/index.ssf/2...ercer_county_freehol
228 GentFromAlaska: I suspect TTN had visions of a parking garage which would be construction; and they still may. Paving a lot or removing debris and thereafter paving
229 jerseyguy: Unfortunately when it comes to the press you have to take things with a grain of salt. A reporter being told they were building a new parking lot cou
230 mariner: Or vice versa. Like many others, I have problems with an open piece of ground that costs $3 million to construct. If it is only to be an open piece o
231 jerseyguy: Well, It still doesn't say whether it will be a parking lot or garage but it does say it will have 1100 paid spots for passengers and additional 124 s
232 mariner: So they plan to end up with less than the 1200 spaces they have now? mariner
233 jerseyguy: Thats what the article says, you can tell now why my head is hurting. They currently have 870 within walking distance and 440 in the remote lot with
234 mariner: Since the article says they plan to "add" spaces, I'm guessing that the reporter is missing an adjective - such as "new" or "additional" - from the a
235 jerseyguy: It must mean add parking spaces close to the terminal. Another article says the same thing "The revamped parking facility will increase the number of
236 ScottB: Work done by county workers isn't entirely "free" as the time spent on that project isn't available to other projects -- i.e. filling potholes, repav
237 mariner: The $3 million number has always puzzled me, but I accept that they know more about it than I do, always, and that there may be issues I don't know a
238 enilria: I'm assuming they are giving F9 substantial incentives, so customer parking is a necessary revenue stream for the airport.
239 mariner: Well - maybe. I've never heard of any cash incentives at TTN, and I'm not aware that any such deal has ever been presented to the Freeholders, and su
240 GentFromAlaska: Here is the Trenton N.J. pricing schematic for a parking garage with several variables citing a 145,000 square foot facility. http://www.reedconstruc
241 TWA1985: Does anyone know how the loads have been in and out of TTN, particularly for MDW?
242 mariner: I don't think there are any actual loads for MDW published yet, but the anecdotal evidence is that they are doing well. Someone flew TTN-MDW and repo
243 jerseyguy: I believe 37 weekly flights is correct, however that quote is not. If it was it would mean that Frontier is flying an a319 with 243 seats in it and t
244 mariner: I assumed it would be read as 37 round trip flights - pax in each direction, going and coming - but I'm happy to correct it. mariner
245 jerseyguy: Maybe it does, but either way, I believe that TTN is doing well and filling up flights.
246 jerseyguy: For all those who want a TTN-DEN flight here it is http://flightaware.com/live/flight/F...0/history/20130524/1801Z/KTTN/KDEN (ok, its a one time only
247 GentFromAlaska: Historically a flight # such as 9210 is cataloged to identify a specific thing. It could be a charter; military or otherwise. It could have been a se
248 jerseyguy: You might be on to something, here's a flight with the F9 9210 number going to GYR (Phoenix Goodyear Airport) from PHX. GYR is the home to a maintain
249 iowaman: Due to length of this thread, it will be archived. Part three is available here: Frontier TTN Smart Move Part 3 (by iowaman May 24 2013 in Civil Aviat
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