jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (2 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 14917 times:
Quoting Mariner: Nothing yet about improvements to the terminal. I believe that at the big meeting with the state, the airport and Frontier, an expansion of the holding area was considered top priority.
Well they do have a overflow area setup in the restaurant, any idea if it was converted to a sterile area?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 2, posted (2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 14894 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 1): Well they do have a overflow area setup in the restaurant, any idea if it was converted to a sterile area?
I'm not sure that it can be.
I haven't been to TTN, but a chum who was there says that the restaurant is up a flight of stairs and the TSA/sterile area is down a flight of stairs. He sent me photos of it and that made sense to me but you've been there, you'd know much better than I.
As you quoted from the previous thread, I'm told the sterile area was the major topic at the recent airport/Frontier/NJ state meeting but I guess they're waiting on the building engineer's report.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 months 1 week 16 hours ago) and read 14841 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 2): I haven't been to TTN, but a chum who was there says that the restaurant is up a flight of stairs and the TSA/sterile area is down a flight of stairs. He sent me photos of it and that made sense to me but you've been there, you'd know much better than I.
Yes, it is up a flight of stairs from the lobby, but when they used it for overflow seating, I thought their might have been a door to it from the 2nd floor and a staircase that goes to the sterile area. If its not sterile and one must go back down the staircase to the lobby and down to the boarding level and thru security then improving the sterile area is a big deal. Hopefully the engineers report comes soon. They need to start ASAP.
A quick temporary solution would be moving the baggage claim to a temporary building, a trailer perhaps and moving security into the old baggage claim area this would give them the area where security is now and the current non-secure seating area plus they could probably find some room in the old baggage claim area now the security area for some sterile side seating. This would require a TSA agent to guard where the current entrance to the security checkpoint is. Could the Sherrifs Department (current TTN security) do it or would it require a TSA agent.
point2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1961 posts, RR: 1 Reply 4, posted (2 months 6 days ago) and read 14436 times:
It appears as if Mercer County Executives are doing their jobs and making a stink with the FAA about not shutting down the TTN tower because of the sequestration. Hopefully, the letter sent on behalf of TTN keeping the tower operative will be viewed positively by the FAA and will not have to cause uncertainty with F9 and its plans for the airport and area.
Maybe since they're only a few hours from DC, maybe as many as possible of the County Execs need to travel down to the FAA offices and just camp outside their door and make their presence known, and not leave until they're guaranteed that the tower will stay open............ could work???
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (2 months 6 days ago) and read 14418 times:
I'm glad Mercer County Execs are stepping up, it really disappoints me that just when things look like they may be taking a turn for the better at the airport we're faced with obsticales that need not be there. I hope an agreement is reached and the Sequestration can be avoided for the good of all of the goverment programs that truly need to be in place.
EliNYC From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 9 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 14278 times:
It's a really strange choice on FAA's part - when facing a budget shortfall (and there is a separate discussion on whether it is an actual cut or just a freeze), they actually cut a program which is way more efficient than their own (federal employees staffed) towers. One might think they should actually shed off some of the fed towers to contractors to save money... But hey, who am I to say.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 10, posted (2 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 13667 times:
As long as TTN has been on the Frontier route map, there has been a debate about TTN-DEN and the too-short runway at TTN (for the distance).
I am told that CEO Siegel has addressed that directly with the staff. Apparently, he says they don't presently have an aircraft that could do it but it is an issue they are actively working on.
It suggests there is a solution, but I can't think what it is. I very much doubt that TTN is going to lengthen the runway but - I suppose anything is possible.
I'm guessing they'd have to take out too many seats to reduce the weight of the A319 sufficiently making it not viable economically?
I'm not a Tech Wallah, but I can't think that the new A320's coming later this year could do it - wouldn't they be heavier? Is there a "special performance" A319 (sharklets?) that Frontier doesn't yet have?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 12, posted (2 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13579 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 11): I think that F9 is going to be keeping 5 e190s that they weren't planning on before, perhaps that is it or your right could be a sharklet thing.
I don;t know where that came from. It was claimed on the Frontier thread - but it isn't what Bryan Bedford said on the cc:
Bedford: The game plan is working out of the pro-rate flying under the Frontier brand."
He suggested various other uses for the E190's - sale or lease to anther party or even an expansion of the Republic/Ceasar's contract, but the intention is that the E190's go.
Now - perhaps the E190's could be useful at TTN, but Siegel said, just yesterday about TTN-DEN, that "at present, we do not have an airplane with the right engine performance, but this is an issue we are actively working on." so I guess he means that the E190's couldn't do it either.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (2 months 2 days ago) and read 13373 times:
Quoting point2point (Reply 4): Hopefully, the letter sent on behalf of TTN keeping the tower operative will be viewed positively by the FAA
Quoting EliNYC (Reply 6): It's a really strange choice on FAA's part - when facing a budget shortfall (and there is a separate discussion on whether it is an actual cut or just a freeze),
I still think there's a lot of "The Sky is Falling" bloviating. Time will tell if the politicians and the senior leadership at the FAA have all but lost their creditability.
If towers do close; my personal thoughts there are enough airports without schedule commercial operations which could shut down before those the likes of TTN. The airspace above TTN between the NYC and Philly ATC Centers is said to be the busiest air corridor in the U.S. It is also a major westward turning point.
Fox Business News is all over the proposed sequestration this morning saying the FAA actually has more federal money this the 2013 fiscal year than they did last year.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (2 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13312 times:
Yep, goverment doesn't like cuts so their going to make it hurt as much as possible to show what kind of horrible things happen when they have to cut back. Do you really think they needed to stop White House tours?
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 15, posted (2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13112 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 14): Do you really think they needed to stop White House tours?
Additionally the national news media was reporting last evening the annual White House Easter egg hunt is on the chopping block too; under the sequestration umbrella. But the TSA can go out and spend millions on new uniforms. Go figure.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
9w748capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 409 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (2 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 13102 times:
Parents are using TTN as an alternative to PHL in a few weeks, curious to see how it goes. One hiccup already though - the rental car facility on-airport closes at 2 PM on sunday - their flight out is at 6 I believe. Awesome!
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (2 months 16 hours ago) and read 12942 times:
Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 16): Parents are using TTN as an alternative to PHL in a few weeks, curious to see how it goes. One hiccup already though - the rental car facility on-airport closes at 2 PM on sunday - their flight out is at 6 I believe. Awesome!
If Mercer County wants to see TTN succeed then they have to make sure that the needed facilities are in place. They need to lower the rent in exchange for longer hours. Its also been several months since they hired the engineer to evaluate the terminal to fix the problems with the lack of facilities post security. If they are waiting for the sequester to be decided they should already have a plan for it. You have to spend money to make money unfortunately. I fear that if people find the facilities to not be adequate then they wont use the airport again and they will tell their friends and family of their experience. I hope that announcements are coming soon.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 months 14 hours ago) and read 12860 times:
I just read some comments in a story about taxes going up that tell Mercer County not to build the "parking garage". Is the new parking area going to be a parking garage?? That would explain why it would be so expensive and why it would cost $200,000 to design.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 19, posted (2 months 13 hours ago) and read 12848 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 18): That would explain why it would be so expensive and why it would cost $200,000 to design.
From my days as a contracting officer in support of a Civil Engineering Unit; $200,000 is cheap in the design arena. Parking garages are a no-brainer.
The planner has to have an idea of how many parking spaces he needs. You tell the architect the garage design needs to model (municipalities choosing) and supplement it with any modifications and let the architect and auto-cad at it. Rule # one is stay away from words like "should", "could" and "want" (You need) as they tend to take on an appearance of their own in a courtroom.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (2 months 13 hours ago) and read 12826 times:
So with a cost of $2.5 million to build and a design cost of $200k, it would likely be a parking garage? Am I right to say that a parking lot should never cost $200K to design?
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 21, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12673 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 20): Am I right to say that a parking lot should never cost $200K to design?
A best answer would be size and the region where the project is located matters. I suspect the 200K design estimate was taken from total anticipated cost of the construction. It looks like they may be using roughly 9.8% of total estimated construction cost. From my perch 9.8% appears to be on the high side. 10% is usually the magic number .
The government will normally obtain a estimate from a neutral firm outside of the immediate catchment area normally recognized to be 50-100 miles. This alone may save millions of dollars on a larger project. It may cost 5K up front but pays for itself in arrears.
I've seen design cost in the 6% range elsewhere. The governments estimate and the contractors estimate are also in play. If there is a significant deviation between the two estimates both parties would normally meet; ironically after a contractor is selected. I suspect there is some some fluff built in to the TTN project. After-all a parking garage is a lot of steel and concrete.
A architect friend tells me the design of parking garages are estimated in the 4-7% range. She emphasized there are variables. Engineers use design software which is based on square footage where the cost of steel, concrete and lumber can be manipulated as the cost go up and down. Most municipalities have a fixed fee per square foot. In the home building new construction arena it was $145.00 per square foot in Alaska and $98.00 in Tennessee when I checked last which excludes land.
If it were a federal job the Davis-Bacon wage Act also comes into play which tends to increase prices.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jetsetter629 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 409 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12642 times:
Last Friday I flew TTN-MSY and returned MSY-TTN on Monday. Both flights only had about 3 seats open and it was nearly the same people on the return flight as was on the outbound.
I agree with all of the comments about the seating area in Trenton. With a full A319, there were people sitting on the floor and on their carryon luggage. It's certainly not a place you want to arrive too early for your flight as you will be bored to death.
The aircraft touched down in TTN at 2:10 and I was in my car and leaving the airport by 2:30 - and only because I was in row 14. Both flights were on time - hats off to F9!
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12622 times:
Jet setter, how did they present the overflow seating in the former restaurant area, were there any signs? Did you have any trouble parking?
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 26, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12674 times:
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 27, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12844 times:
Quoting gustywinds (Reply 24): Unfortunately, TTN did make the FAA Contract Tower Closure List. 149 total. 40 others were spared. Effective April 7
.
How bad will conditions have to be before Frontier cancels flights, will low clouds now cause cancelations?
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 28, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12833 times:
Quoting gustywinds (Reply 24): Unfortunately, TTN did make the FAA Contract Tower Closure List. 149 total
I for one didn't know TTN was a contract tower vs a FAA civil service employee staffed tower. It appears the contracted airport towers took the brunt of the hit.
Not to steal anybody's thunder but Bloomberg.com gets into the weeds and explains is fairly well. It looks like the FAA spared non-contract towers managed by FAA employees and snubbed its nose at the contractor run towers. TTN may have to address that down the line.
F9 receives its air traffic control guidance for TTN from PHL; thus it may not be as bad as we think. Still the long final airspace is crowded in a busy corridor.
In a weird way if TTN closes this may actually do some good in the shedding light on arena as F9 prepares to contract out the their outstations. Lets hope F9 might take a second look at their decision to outsource their outstations. Contractors are generally understood to be step children as the FAA has just proved.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 29, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12834 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 28): In a weird way if TTN closes this may actually do some good in the shedding light on arena as F9 prepares to contract out the their outstations. Lets hope F9 might take a second look at their decision to outsource their outstations.
I hope not.
The outsourcing of ground staff is a saving of millions of dollars a year and a fair number of Frontier's outstations are already outsourced, with no detrimental effects to service.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 30, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12815 times:
Not sure why F9 would reconsider outsourcing their stations, it makes the company more profitable and doesn't cause a degradation of service. I don't understand how the closing of TTN's control tower or even the discontinuing of F9 service would change any of that.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12802 times:
The FAA has said that airports could assume costs of control tower operations if the wished to keep towers open. I think TTN should consider a small PFC in order to keep the tower running. Flights need to be consistent if pax will want to use the airport.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 32, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 12781 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 29): The outsourcing of ground staff is a saving of millions of dollars a year and a fair number of Frontier's outstations are already outsourced, with no detrimental effects to service.
I would argue there is indeed an effect where loyalty to a company enters the equation. With that said aviation is a strange bedfellow. WN is a prime example; in the late 90's it was the number one company in America to work for. I could take you into the weeds with the Baldrige Criteria, Dr. Covey's Seven Habits of Highly Effective People and author Donald Phillips book Lincoln on Leadership; but I won't
Contacts aren't always what they are chalked up to be. If F9 ultimately decides to stop flying to TTN through the sequestration period and loses a boatload of cash It appears a contract may bite F9 in the tush.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 33, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12774 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 32): I would argue there is indeed an effect where loyalty to a company enters the equation.
Southwest has always been able to outsource ground staff at any station with fewer than 12 departures a day - and does so.
At its peak this summer, Frontier will have 5 flights a day at TTN.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 32): If F9 ultimately decides to stop flying to TTN through the sequestration period and loses a boatload of cash It appears a contract may bite F9 in the tush.
Since the contract for ground staff at TTN is already signed, some time ago, there isn't much Frontier can do about it.
And since Frontier has said that it will continue flying at TTN - even without the tower - it seems moot.
I believe the FAA is also closing the tower at BMI, another airport Frontier serves, and no one seems concerned about that.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 34, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12763 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 33): At its peak this summer, Frontier will have 5 flights a day at TTN.
Since 5 flights a day are starting soon April 8th. Has TTN come up with any plans for the improvements needed in the terminal. With 5 flights a day its gonna get quite crowded.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 35, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12746 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 34): Since 5 flights a day are starting soon April 8th. Has TTN come up with any plans for the improvements needed in the terminal. With 5 flights a day its gonna get quite crowded.
I haven't heard anything. They're all grown-ups and aware of the situation, so I don't worry about it - I wait to be told what may happen.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 36, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12727 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 35): I haven't heard anything. They're all grown-ups and aware of the situation, so I don't worry about it - I wait to be told what may happen.
Yes they are grown-ups but they are also bureaucrats (remember this is a county run airport). The only reason I "worry" is that I want this project to work out. I like having a small airport so close to me.
n7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1495 posts, RR: 12 Reply 37, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12725 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 33): Southwest has always been able to outsource ground staff at any station with fewer than 12 departures a day - and does so.
Skirting the truth. Southwest has had a contract that allows for outsourcing stations under 12 daily flights - but when it added Panama City and Charleston, it placed Southwest workers in there - and did not have an outsourced station. I believe this has now happened with the FL station conversions.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 38, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 12727 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 33): And since Frontier has said that it will continue flying at TTN - even without the tower - it seems moot.
They did? Two or so weeks ago I recall reading F9 was still evaluating if they were going to fly to TTN if the tower did close. I remember the story indicating aircraft would be allowed to take off and land but F9 preferred the tower be manned but nothing which mentioned they had agreed too.
Yes BMI is another one.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 39, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12723 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 36): Yes they are grown-ups but they are also bureaucrats (remember this is a county run airport). The only reason I "worry" is that I want this project to work out. I like having a small airport so close to me.
I'm sympathetic because I think everyone wants it to work out and - so far - they seem to be doing a fair job of it.
I'm pretty sure that Frontier knew the limitations of TTN when they scheduled the additional flights, they knew what they were getting into at TTN.
And I'd be certain - based on what we know has happened - that the airport is aware of its limitations and is trying to fix 'em.
Southwest may - or may not, as at RIC - choose to avoid it, but they can.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 38): They did? Two or so weeks ago I recall reading F9 was still evaluating if they were going to fly to TTN if the tower did close.
"Frontier: Trenton growth on despite tower closing
Frontier Airlines says the announced plan to close the control tower at Trenton-Mercer Airport won't affect its plans to further expand service there."
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 41, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 12696 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 34): Since 5 flights a day are starting soon April 8th. Has TTN come up with any plans for the improvements needed in the terminal. With 5 flights a day its gonna get quite crowded.
Quoting mariner (Reply 35): I haven't heard anything. They're all grown-ups and aware of the situation
TTN could always install the covered plastic walkways outside of the terminal to handle the overflow commonly seen in Alaska and elsewhere I suppose more-so at maritime terminals; They would keep the passengers corralled outside of the terminal. The heated ones are quite cozy.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 42, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12634 times:
If I understand the ATC workings the TTN tower is responsible for the ground traffic which are few; even at five scattered about the day. I suppose PHL also keeps a eye on the low altitude flying across the forty or so miles between PHL and TTN what I'm told is a very busy air corridor.
Having flown around rural Alaska for a few years with some exposure to bush flying; what scares me are the small fliers who may not use a transponder.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 43, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12619 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 42): I suppose PHL also keeps a eye on the low altitude flying across the forty or so miles between PHL and TTN what I'm told is a very busy air corridor.
"Frontier Airlines' new focus city loses its air traffic tower
We are very disappointed that the FAA decided to keep Trenton-Mercer on the closed list," said Kate O'Malley, Frontier's spokeswoman. "But, it does not impact our plans. We are increasing our service in Trenton to five new cities beginning April 8."
Frontier has assured Hughes that it can safely land its commercial jets at Trenton using an instrument landing system — or ILS — instead of relying on an air traffic controller."
There's more but it is unfortunate (if not surprising in the Denver Post) that some of it has a negative, if not alarmist, tone:
"But, now that they are talking about expanding their flight schedule, I don't know," Hughes said. "I think it is a problem that they don't want to think about and, frankly, I don't want to think about."
Why would Frontier "not want to think about it"? The airline obviously has thought about it.
"According to Hughes, Frontier said that it can land with ILS except for in extreme weather conditions, such as heavy rain, fog or snow.
"I don't know what their alternative plan would be if they couldn't land," Hughes said. "Safety is obviously the number one issue and I have to take them on their word."
And doesn't leave it there:
"Trenton-Mercer Airport, which was elated about Frontier's arrival at the fledgling airport this year, but is now potentially facing another heartache."
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 45, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 12604 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 44): Anther heartache? What was the first one?
I think they are referring to the many attempts to start commerical service that didn't work out.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 47, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 12616 times:
An article from the Trentonian quotes Brian Hughes Mercer County Executive as saying "We estimate it costs about $60,000 a month to keep the tower opened, and that is $60,000 the county does not have”.
If every flight was filled to capacity they would have to charge a $4.34 PFC to pay to keep the tower open. So even if they wanted to that wouldnt really be a viable option.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 48, posted (1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 12435 times:
If Princeton or some other nearby University offers a flight training program TTN may want to investigate and diversify as a college flight training program. It appears the education airports avoided the ATC sequestration chop. TTN offers some valuable training in a busy air corridor students may not be exposed too elsewhere.
DeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3623 posts, RR: 11 Reply 49, posted (1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12344 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 48): If Princeton or some other nearby University offers a flight training program TTN may want to investigate and diversify as a college flight training program. It appears the education airports avoided the ATC sequestration chop. TTN offers some valuable training in a busy air corridor students may not be exposed too elsewhere.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 50, posted (1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12241 times:
Anybody know what kind of profit that the county is making on F9 gate rent and landing fees? Did they give them dirt cheap fees or are they actually making money?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 51, posted (1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 12241 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 50): Anybody know what kind of profit that the county is making on F9 gate rent and landing fees? Did they give them dirt cheap fees or are they actually making money?
$18,558 a year in terminal fees. Landing fees are a variable depending on the number of flights/passengers.
When the Freeholders voted on the original Frontier contract it is said that Streamline, which was there for a year, paid the airport $72,000 in fees and based on the then 2 x weekly TTN-MCO schedule it was estimated that Frontier would be paying about the same:
"The freeholders will vote tomorrow on whether to approve a two-year lease agreement that calls for the airline to pay $18,558 per year to the county in rent for space inside the airport’s main terminal. The airline will also pay a series of fees for using the runways and airport equipment as well as parking and fueling the plane.
County officials have said the most recent passenger airline at Trenton-Mercer, Streamline, was paying approximately $72,000 in various fees to the county.
When all fees and charges are calculated Frontier Airlines will be paying about as much to the county as Streamline did during its tenure, said county attorney Arthur Sypek Jr."
Using that as a baseline, I'll let you do the math as to what the additional flights bring in.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 53, posted (1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 11944 times:
Frontier "How Sweet (16) it is" Sale
$16 each way CMH-TTN or TTN-CMH
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 54, posted (1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 11884 times:
Since my former post seems to be screwed up, I'll add I don't know if this is just a marketing oppotunity or if the loads are bad. Its available every flight until Memorial Day
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 55, posted (1 month 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11676 times:
It appears Frontier has some changes in store for TTN
1.MSY goes seasonal on August 12th.
2 RDU goes to 5X a week June 11th (Loses Tuesday)
3 CMH switches from Sun/Mon/Thur to Sun/Tue/Thur on June 10th.
Any ideas of what its replacement might be, I'll assume we'll see MSY return by Late February for the Mardi Gras season. It appears it will be a destination that is 3X weekly.
I think it would be neat see PHF connected to TTN which would give TTN another connection to DEN the three or so days of the week the PHF-DEN is service is offered. I would think TTN and PHF would supplement each other neatly.
As to the MSY seasonal cut. Having spent a little time near NOLA; the heat and humidity can be horrendous in southern Louisiana in July and August into September. That time of year is also high storm season.
Louisiana shares a summertime pest; what Alaskans refer to as their state bird the mosquito The sand fleas are no laughing matter either. A resident tolerates it a little easier. For visitor it can spoil a vacation.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 57, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 11471 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 56): As to the MSY seasonal cut. Having spent a little time near NOLA; the heat and humidity can be horrendous in southern Louisiana in July and August into September. That time of year is also high storm season.
Yeah, I was researching taking a trip there because F9 had service and I had never been. Fares only got reasonable starting in June and I found out its because of the hot and humid summers. I was surprised that they didn't cut NOLA earlier say end of June.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 56): I think it would be neat see PHF connected to TTN which would give TTN another connection to DEN the three or so days of the week the PHF-DEN is service is offered. I would think TTN and PHF would supplement each other neatly.
I guess people who have relatives in the Navy might use it. Or maybe a sailor coming home to the PHL/NJ area. I wonder if PHF would give a subsidy for it being that they lost AirTran service, then with a subsidy they would probably try it.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 58, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 11307 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 57): I guess people who have relatives in the Navy might use it.
Norfolk is still a decent huff from PHF. Chesapeake and Yorktown in the northern Tidewater peninsula ain't chopped liver. I remember flying in and out of PHF on a handful of business trips across ten or so years when US offered PHF-DCA connecting to AS at DCA in later years for JNU via SEA
On the leisure side Yorktown is rich in Civil War history and sees a fair share of visitors. Colonial Williamsburg and Busch Gardens also see's its fair share of tourism. Last year the tidewater beach areas came in one and two in a smarter travel poll for family vacations
When US ka-bashed PHF-DCA: PHL became the new hub connection. I tried really hard to avoid PHL whenever possible because the airport was so run-down. I remember tripping once on some ripped carpet. I haven't been back in years so I'll stay reserved.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
Flytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 524 posts, RR: 0 Reply 59, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 11205 times:
I think the distance isn't long for PHF-TTN, as a NJ to VA trip is typically done by drive. It should be atleast an 8hr drive for F9 to consider flying it from TTN. Maybe one or two exceptions, that is PIT and BOS which are in bigger regions and probably more association to NJ/ SE PA.
Quoting NJ.COM ARTICLE: Freeholder Anthony Carabelli said he had been hearing concerns from people ever since the Federal Aviation Administration announced on Friday due to deep budget cuts it would could no longer support tower service at Mercer.
During their meeting last night, the freeholders also expressed concern that if passengers are concerned about safety and chose not to fly from Trenton-Mercer the local economy will suffer. Since Frontier Airlines began flying from the airport in November the surrounding area has seen a boost of activity, Frisby has said.
Frisby said he would like to see the county administration consider what it would cost to take over the contract for the tower — at least for a few months — to keep it manned.
Hughes said last week preliminary estimates show that it could cost $60,000 a month to keep the tower operating as it is currently.
“I don’t know if that is a bad price tag for a month or two to support the economy,” Frisby said.
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 61, posted (1 month 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 11084 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 55): I'll assume we'll see MSY return by Late February for the Mardi Gras season
It wouldn't surprise me to see MSY return in, say, mid November...that's when traffic really picks up, and when all four cruise lines return.
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 57): . I was surprised that they didn't cut NOLA earlier say end of June.
Me too, although tourism in June is still fairly high. July/August/September is when it drops off a cliff.
"County Executive Brian Hughes has tried to assure passengers that they will be safe."
I think it comes down to public education. Is the TTN flying public in the know that PHL takes care of the "in air" flying and TTN ATC more-so maintains the ground aspect. For the flying fearful PHL and EWR are options.
For F9 flights originating at TTN and BMI F9 might also consider broadcasting over the cabin PA system or possibly IFE the comms from PHL ATC and also the ATC airport which serves BMI from http://www.liveatc.net/ this would offer some assurance to the cabin.
As it relates to the bird concern. As I recall Trenton is a decent huff from the coast. I would think any concern about fowl. would be closer to the coast. F9 could with an empty airframe practice a couple of go-arounds with PHL ATC after lift out of TTN. Another idea might include placing a couple of owl statutes around the airport perimeter which will go along way and mitigate bird activity.
The local landfill has two owls which hoot actual owl sounds. Surprisingly it's a very inexpensive deterrent and it does work. I've also seen the owl idea used in coastal Maine to keep the sea birds and their bombs away from hotel roofs and to a certain extent peoples heads.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 63, posted (1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 10990 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 62): I think it comes down to public education. Is the TTN flying public in the know that PHL takes care of the "in air" flying and TTN ATC more-so maintains the ground aspect. For the flying fearful PHL and EWR are options.
First off PHL and EWR are not options because F9 and Mercer County don't want to lose traffic to those other airports. As well alot of people would still be nervous because they don't trust politicians anyway, in general they tell you what you want to hear. The question is how long will this sequester go on before, I would say it won't go on for more than 2 months. After politicians here from their constituents due to delays in Air Travel and other cuts such as to the federal unemployment extensions they will find a way to make it work so they don't have problems in their 2014 elections
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 62): For F9 flights originating at TTN and BMI F9 might also consider broadcasting over the cabin PA system or possibly IFE the comms from PHL ATC and also the ATC airport which serves BMI from http://www.liveatc.net/ this would offer some assurance to the cabin.
In order for that to work, you have to get the people on the plane first the flyers who wont travel because of the lack of a tower won't be getting on the plane.
Maybe TTN needs to start charging a PFC, they need money to renovate the airport anyway. Fares are lower than EWR or PHL in many cases as it is. In looking around, I would have a hard time finding a similar fare Chicago trip unless I want to go to LGA or maybe ACY.
I said since day one that it wouldn't make it year-round. I'm surprised it lasts till August. The fact it goes that long is a good sign that it will return at least for FEB-APR in 2014.
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 55): 3 CMH switches from Sun/Mon/Thur to Sun/Tue/Thur on June 10th.
Day of week switches become a really big deal with these non-daily schedules as it basically means all your bookings disappear as typically you can't involuntarily reaccom people to other days.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 65, posted (1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 10933 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 10): I'm not a Tech Wallah, but I can't think that the new A320's coming later this year could do it - wouldn't they be heavier? Is there a "special performance" A319 (sharklets?) that Frontier doesn't yet have?
In a letter to the staff last week, Robert Ashcroft discussed the fleet - the incoming N954FR is now registered to Frontier:
But he also said that N902FR is being uprated to "high thrust" because they need it for airports like MDW - and TTN.
Frontier already has a few hot rod A319's in a deal done with Airbus over a delayed A318 delivery (damaged by Airbus) years ago, but they are mostly used for overwater ops. It's basically a software upgrade but it cost (then) about $1 million per plane - presumably a bit more now.
BUT - I don't if engine improvements made since then will give the A319 sufficient thrust for TTN-DEN and I don't think (?) that TTN could handle the incoming A320 with sharklets. Or if retrofitted sharklets on the A319 would help the case.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 66, posted (1 month 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 10789 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 63): First off PHL and EWR are not options because
I disagree Its up to the flying public to decide which airport they want to use. I don't think there would be any value added in using PHL in that PHL would be providing TTN service anyways. Shoot Amtrak or Megabus would be other options if folks are that fearful. I'm sure some who would normally fly are in fact using other modes of transportation. Personally I like a since of adventure.
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 63): F9 and Mercer County don't want to lose traffic to those other airports.
I agree. The powers that be might consider placing a one page ad in the local Sunday newspaper explaining it to the fearful and uninformed. They might want to try using the roller coaster analogy. You are safer in a jet than you are on a roller coaster. How many of us ride roller coasters?
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 63): In order for that to work, you have to get the people on the plane first the flyers who wont travel because of the lack of a tower won't be getting on the plane.
I'm not convinced about that. I've felt a few bumps on the ground I couldn't explain luggage bouncing around things hitting the airframe below me. I didn't go running for the front door in fear. Possibly it could be brought into the terminal. I agree that it should be a short inconvenience.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 67, posted (1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 10749 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 66): I disagree Its up to the flying public to decide which airport they want to use.
I agree its up to the public as to what apart they want to use but as I said before F9 and Mercer County don't want to lose them to PHL and EWR
Hopefully sequester wont be here much longer as more people get affected by it.
rangercarp From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 123 posts, RR: 0 Reply 68, posted (1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10689 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 63): The question is how long will this sequester go on before, I would say it won't go on for more than 2 months.
I think it is here to stay, other than some potential minor adjustments. News coverage of the sequester is quickly fading, and CNBC reported this evening about a new poll which says most Americans favor more cuts in addition to the sequester.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 69, posted (1 month 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 10627 times:
If the tower remains unmanned, what kind of conditions would cause Frontier to divert and would a tower reduce a lot of those diversions?
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 71, posted (1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10253 times:
I think The N.J. state DOT could easily identify the 60K or whatever it takes in other excess transportation funds which could be reprogrammed to fund the TTN tower. Most states have contingency funding. It doesn't sound like N.J. had the Winter it has had in prior years. Maybe the State could identify excess funding in the road deicing or brine fund which could be reprogrammed. Although some might argue that should go towards pot hole repair on federal highways.
The State of Texas just announced they are going to fund the thirteen towers which are slated to close under the sequester.
[Edited 2013-03-29 07:49:52]
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16256 posts, RR: 52 Reply 72, posted (1 month 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 10242 times:
The NJ State Transportation trust fund is bankrupt, it's funded by the State Gasoline tax which is the third lowest in the Nation and has not been raised in over 20 years. Governor Christie decided as a stop gap measure to kill the Hudson Commuter rail tunnel that had just started construction. He diverted those funds from building a new commuter rail tunnel to provide a one time infusion of funds into the Transportation Trust fund in order to keep highway projects such as the Turnpike/Garden State Parkway expansion and Pulaski Sky renovation progressing. It's a temporary solution to a long term problem, the Trust fund will now limp along until Christie is out of Office and either the next Governor raises the Gas tax or steals funds from other worthy programs.
"Frontier Airlines will temporarily suspend flights at Trenton-Mercer Airport in September
Frontier Airlines will suspend flights at Trenton-Mercer Airport for two months starting in September while construction crews install a safety enhancement project on the airport’s main runway.
The airline said in a news release today that it will suspend flights Sept. 9 and resume them Nov. 9. Frontier is currently only selling tickets for flights through Sept. 8, and this Sunday will begin selling tickets for the week of Nov. 8 to Nov. 13, the release said."
rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2851 posts, RR: 7 Reply 74, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10177 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 71): It doesn't sound like N.J. had the Winter it has had in prior years.
On the contrary. It was worse than last year, I think more so in South Jersey. Many school districts used up their snow days. We were frozen for a good portion of January and February, and saw numerous snows/freezing rain in Feb. and March, not big ones, but enough to that people are tired of it. And I think the plow/salting budgets are being expended.
I enjoy the low gas prices, but I could stand to pay a few cents more per gallon to be able to fund the highway infrastructure at a more sustainable level. (Rather that than tolls.) I don't necessarily agree that it should be used for airport improvements, however. Use passenger charges for that.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 75, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10161 times:
I don't know what condition the TTN taxi ways are in. Ten or so years ago while Juneau's single runway was being repaved AS departed and landed on an taxi-way adjacent to their runway. The airport installed temporary lights.
It lasted for about the same two months as the anticipated TTN closure. In fact the asphalt they used was recycled and used on a eight mile stretch of pressed gravel mountain road which lead up to the local ski area. It may be an option they may want to pursue, To use a taxi way takes FAA concurrence. The only con I see is if the sequester ends up being longer than anticipated.
An outside the box approach might be to ask McGuire or Lakehurst if they borrow their facilities for a two months. F9 is approved to conduct military charters which would normally involve them flying into and out of the military installation where the charter originates and ends. It could be valuable ATC training for a tower which would normally be with military operations. McGuire is twenty of so miles from Ewing. I liken it to a military airframe conducting touch and goes at a commercial airport. There are a few airports which share runways military installations Two which come to mind are PIE and HNL
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 76, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 10155 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 75): I don't know what condition the TTN taxi ways are in. Ten or so years ago while Juneau's single runway was being repaved AS departed and landed on an taxi-way adjacent to their runway. The airport installed temporary lights.
They may do the taxiway work at the same time, Gent, but this is primarily about the EMAS at the end of the main runway (it's already done on the shorter runway).
From the article:
"During the two-month period crews will installed an Engineered Material Arresting System (EMAS) on the airport’s 6,006-foot runway. The EMAS is a series of crushable concrete blocks placed at the end of the runway to slow and stop planes that overrun the runway.
The airport installed EMAS beds at both ends of the airport’s shorter runway last year"
But the timing is fun - one of the Airtran CEO's said that he like to be able o close his airline down in September.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 77, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 10157 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 76): But the timing is fun - one of the Airtran CEO's said that he like to be able o close his airline down in September.
Yeah that's when all of the really cheap airfares come out, I love those 2 months.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 75): I don't know what condition the TTN taxi ways are in.
None of the airports taxiways are long enough to land a plane on. Most of TTN taxiways are in poor condition anyway with the exception of one or 2 they recently redid.
Really what should happen is the FAA should pay for the tower like it did before with the fuel and passenger taxes that it collects. In any case, for the tower alone with all planes at an 85% load factor they'd need to charge a $4.30 PFC. Plus which now that the government requires airlines to advertise the total cost with fees of fares, it would make it harder to do. Though I think they will probably have to add PFCs at one point or another they do need to fix some stuff in the terminal such as overcrowding and lack of bathroom and food facilities post security.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 78, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10029 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 77): Yeah that's when all of the really cheap airfares come out, I love those 2 months.
I do too. September is a great time of year to visit MCO and the rest of Florida. The crowds are less, the temps are cooler , the kids are in school (but there are the long weekends). Historically the end of season discounts are there from airfare to hotel and dining. I'd rather vacation in May or in late August or early September.
If the theme parks and the amusements are your thing you can actually make progress in a single day. Little to no waiting in line for rides. And you don't have to deal with those come back for head of the line of privileges at a select time. Vacations are not suppose to be about schedules and being at a certain place at a certain time.
Last year I took dad to Maine at the end of August into early Sept.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 79, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 10004 times:
I wonder if there is money in the Tourism or economic development budget. Especially since a lot of big companies from the Princeton area fly their corporate jets out of there as well. The freeholders did write to Gov Christie maybe he will find some money somewhere.
IllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 117 posts, RR: 0 Reply 80, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9973 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 73): Interesting move - suspending flights for two months in September, the low time, while the airport is upgraded
Let's see if I got this right. They're going to close the tower saving $60,000 a month and make using TTTN more dangerous, but now they are going to spend $15.8 million to build crushable concrete pads to make the airport safer? Interesting! How can 'crushable concrete blocks' possibly cost $15.8 million dollars anyways?! Wow, I'm in the wrong business for sure.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 81, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 9956 times:
Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 80): Let's see if I got this right. They're going to close the tower saving $60,000 a month and make using TTN more dangerous, but now they are going to spend $15.8 million to build crushable concrete pads to make the airport safer? Interesting! How can 'crushable concrete blocks' possibly cost $15.8 million dollars anyways?! Wow, I'm in the wrong business for sure.
The sequester is all about politics and making sure that people think that there is no room for cuts without it hurting. One company wanted to charge TTN $750,000 to create a parking lot that had 260 spaces. They employed Mercer County DOT workers and did it for around $250,000.
But just to make the point - it is the FAA that is closing the tower, not the airport, or Frontier.
If this makes the airport more "dangerous", here's a heads-up - I urge you not to fly into some other airports such as BMI (which has more traffic) - or BKG (will Southwest be more dangerous?) - or DRO, which has never had a tower.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 83, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9926 times:
Of course it makes the airport more dangerous because having an eye on the runway would make it safer. Its just a matter of how much more dangerous it is and if its still an acceptable risk
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 84, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9910 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 82): Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 80):Wow, I'm in the wrong business for sure
I couldn't possibly comment on that.
Mariner,
In the US, that is a phrase meaning that someone thinks that something cost too much or someone gets paid too much for their job. It doesn't mean that a person thinks they would be better suited for that or another job.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 85, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 9903 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 83): Of course it makes the airport more dangerous because having an eye on the runway would make it safer. Its just a matter of how much more dangerous it is and if its still an acceptable risk
Then there are a lot of dangerous airports in the US.
I'm not not sure why TTN is copping so much attention, when there are other, busier airports that will not have a tower. BMI, for example has sued the FAA - but no one talks much about it or wonders why BMI's tower is cheaper.
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 84): Mariner,
In the US, that is a phrase meaning that someone thinks that something cost too much or someone gets paid too much for their job. It doesn't mean that a person thinks they would be better suited for that or another job.
Yes, I did live in the US for twenty five years (I still pay US tax). The line I used is taken from a famous UK tv series - House of Cards - recently remade in the US with Kevin Spacey.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 86, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9867 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 85): BMI, for example has sued the FAA
I just looked at a story regarding Bloomington-Normal airport suing the FAA. Perhaps while this is in court there will be an injunction that will stop all the closures of all the airports including TTN.
The lawsuits specifically mention the National Environmental Policy Act, which requires extensive review of any airport changes, as well as the Safety Management Systems protocols requiring thorough risk analysis that the FAA must carry out.
"That requirement is not excused" by the budget cuts, Olson said.
Olsen BTW is Carl Olson, director of the Central Illinois Regional Airport in Bloomington, Ill.
Also it appears that will use the closure in September that TTN to preform the changes to the airport to reduce crowding. Trenton Mercer will use the temporary measures it has put in place, overflow seating in the pre-security restaurant area to make it past the summer.
"The two-month shut down will also allow the county to complete construction projects including upgrades to parking lots located next to the terminal and to start new construction projects like upgrades to the terminal, enhanced concessions and improve rest room facilities. A recent $2.5 million state grant awarded to the airport will be used to improve taxiways."
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 87, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9837 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 86): I just looked at a story regarding Bloomington-Normal airport suing the FAA. Perhaps while this is in court there will be an injunction that will stop all the closures of all the airports including TTN.
I understand that BMI and other airports, such as GEG - which has more traffic than TTN - are seeking judicial review.
But I think it is interesting is that the cost for the TTN tower is pegged at $60,000 a month - $720,000 a year by my math, but BMI has a different number:
"The airport authority says it plans to continue control tower service even if it has to pay the $500,000 yearly bill itself."
Of course, I would like the TTN tower to continue, but I don't think it is the end of the world if it doesn't and most of all, I wonder why TTN's tower is nearly a quarter of a million dollars a year more expensive.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 91, posted (1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9800 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 90): I have a feeling that F9 encouraged the timing of this, rather than being upset about it.
I believe our good friend Daniel Shurz pretty much confirms it in a statement released by Frontier.
"We thank the County Executive Brian Hughes and county transportation officials for working cooperatively and productively with Frontier to move this work to the lowest demand period of the year and look forward to welcoming customers back on board Frontier flights from Trenton-Mercer airport in November," Shurz adds in the statement.
"From Sept. 9 through Nov. 7, the low-budget carrier is forced to suspend flights into and out of the region while the airport’s runways are outfitted with Engineered Material Arresting System (EMAS) beds"
If they're going to do the terminal work at the same time - two birds, one stone.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 93, posted (1 month 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 9588 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 81): They employed Mercer County DOT workers and did it for around $250,000.
To bad we don't have more of this.
Quoting mariner (Reply 87): But I think it is interesting is that the cost for the TTN tower is pegged at $60,000 a month - $720,000 a year by my math, but BMI has a different number:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 88): A $50,000 job in Bloomington would be the equivalent of a $68,000 job in Trenton.
The Heartland Effect perhaps.
And moving on to a new topic: The TTN all-stop and two month closure is going to free up two maybe three airframes. I can't see two airframes sitting idle unless they send them in for "C" checks. I suppose we should be listening for hints as to what the power that be have in mind. I can't see new routes being added. Possibly strengthening some of the popular routes for two months and maybe extend DEN-ANC for two additional months to gauge how it would do year around.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 94, posted (1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 9525 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 92): If they're going to do the terminal work at the same time - two birds, one stone.
In other parts of the world, airlines are moving to fully automated check-in. We have it, for most flights down here at AKL - I haven't used a check-in counter for two years - the airline doesn't allow it unless there is a problem - and I am completely comfortable with kiosks. It's quick and easy and no waiting in line.
Ryanair has been fully automated for some time, and now Easyjet is considering it:
"Self-service kiosks are available at a number of airports. Payments for services such as priority boarding and baggage fees can be made at the airport kiosk up to 40 minutes prior to the scheduled flight departure."
So I wonder if the shut down and terminal renovation at TTN gives Frontier an opportunity to introduce something similar. With the smaller number of flights, surely it would be fairly easy to do.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 95, posted (1 month 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 9456 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 94): In other parts of the world, airlines are moving to fully automated check-in. We have it, for most flights down here at AKL - I haven't used a check-in counter for two years - the airline doesn't allow it unless there is a problem - and I am completely comfortable with kiosks. It's quick and easy and no waiting in line.
Sure put some kiosks in but don't take away the check-in. Since its not done over here yet, lets not start it at an airport that already doesn't have a following. We don't want people to associate TTN as the terminal so small they don't even have check-in desks. Spirit doesn't even feel the need to do that.
IllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 117 posts, RR: 0 Reply 96, posted (1 month 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 9439 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 82): But just to make the point - it is the FAA that is closing the tower, not the airport, or Frontier.
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 83): Of course it makes the airport more dangerous because having an eye on the runway would make it safer. Its just a matter of how much more dangerous it is and if its still an acceptable risk.
Every pilot flying in and out of TTN should be concerned about their safety. Your about to remove one of the best safety measures you have at an airport - CONTROL! Without ATC it is going to become a more unsafe environment. First there will be radio congestion, since pilots will have to announce their position in every section of the traffic pattern. Then who will be number one for the runway? Who's following who? Is there any kind of wild life on the runway? Whats the most current wind direction and speed? Is someone taking off from the runway? Pilots will have to figure this all out on their own while still flying their aircraft (just think of it as texting and driving). Next there will be IFR departure delays, pilots sequencing themselves, aircraft suddenly being at the same place and time. As a pilot you should know that the greatest chances of a mishap is within 10 miles of an airport. That is where the most congestion is.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 97, posted (1 month 3 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 9403 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 95): Since its not done over here yet, lets not start it at an airport that already doesn't have a following. We don't want people to associate TTN as the terminal so small they don't even have check-in desks.
I think not having to stand in line is a considerable improvement, but if you'd rather do that - each to their own.
Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 96): Every pilot flying in and out of TTN should be concerned about their safety. Your about to remove one of the best safety measures you have at an airport - CONTROL! Without ATC it is going to become a more unsafe environment.
To reiterate, it isn't just TTN, and to some extent TTN may be in a better position than some others because there is PHL and TRACON:
"PHL TRACON's main responsibility is obviously - Philadelphia International Airport. Additionally, they offer approach and departure services to several other satellite airports near PHL; Northeast Philadelphia Airport (PNE), New Castle Airport (ILG) in Wilmington, Delaware, Trenton Mercer Airport (TTN) in Trenton, New Jersey"
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 98, posted (1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 9300 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 95): Sure put some kiosks in but don't take away the check-in. Since its not done over here yet
AS turned ANC into a full Kiosk airport in 2004 branded the airport of the future. It looked like a robot check-in area Quite futuristic at the time.
"Alaska Airlines introduced its Airport of the Future check-in process at Ted Stevens International Airport in Anchorage, Alaska, in 2004. The design, which was patented in 2006, speeds the check-in process by eliminating the traditional ticket counter and, instead, providing customer-friendly islands of check-in kiosks and bag-check stations. In Anchorage, the concept cut in half the average wait time for customers. Alaska Airlines and its sister carrier, Horizon Air, opened the first phase of a similar, though larger, Airport of the Future check-in area at Seattle-Tacoma International Airport in October 2007. The Seattle project is scheduled to be completed by mid-2008."
There were no less than ten kiosks in a 200 square foot area. AS kept a human behind the counter for first class check-in and one or two amongst the kiosk bank to assist customers. Even the Kiosk challenged amongst us at the time found them easy to negotiate. I find airline kiosk easier to negotiate than grocery store self check-out lanes. With that said I still struggle with purchasing fare from the machines in Washington D.C. Metro stations. You wouldn't want to be behind me at rush hour. This is second nature to the people who use them daily.
Because TTN is talking parking lots; an idea might be to place a few weather proof Kiosk banks in the parking lot(s). This allows the flying public to check-in where they park. It also takes stress of the smaller terminal facilities. It's no different than the pay-to-park Kiosks at many medium and larger airports today. I would think the local Fire Marshall has established a maximum capacity allowed in the terminal at any one time.
Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 96): Sure put some kiosks in but don't take away the check-in. Since its not done over here yet
TTN airport authorities could always place a 10-15 minute safety zone around all F9 arrivals and departures. Were only talking five airframes a day after April 8th so 10 x daily. And no other large airline offers large jet service to TTN thus it's not that much of an inconvenience to the small fliers. The airport adds the diversion to TTN NOTAM (notice-to-airmen).
It's no worse than the FAA placing a non-stop at commercial airports where the Presidents or V-P aircraft is visiting. Once in RNO on a AS flight ATC gave us a fifteen minute window to depart RNO or get stuck for an hour while the VP aircraft was preparing for departure. We did.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 99, posted (1 month 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 9242 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 97): I think not having to stand in line is a considerable improvement, but if you'd rather do that - each to their own.
I'm not saying we there can't be kiosks but lets keep 1 agent space available for those that don't want to use it, forcing people to use kiosks is not a good idea. I was actually disapointed that there were no kiosks but forcing people is a bad idea especially at a new airport.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 100, posted (1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9187 times:
In the technology arena I remember the day when the flying public thought E-airline tickets were a bad idea. It was more or a trust thing.
I loved that era in time. You would too if you ever forgot, misplaced or left your paper ticket in the pouch of the seat in front of you. If it couldn't be found you were required to purchase a new ticket.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 101, posted (1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 9180 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 100): You would too if you ever forgot, misplaced or left your paper ticket in the pouch of the seat in front of you. If it couldn't be found you were required to purchase a new ticket.
I actually do, I lost my ticket when connecting in MIA EWR-MIA-SRQ back in the 90s. They had e-tickets but I was flying on a reward ticket I believe (yes I know what a bad use for an award ticket..but I was young and stupid back then LOL). Missed my flight to SRQ and had to pay $75 to change to the later flight. Sure, it reality kiosk-only is a great timesaver but it would also be new to this part of the country and some people would count it as a negative. May be if they had a good foothold on the TTN market and maybe by the end of the summer they will but we'll have to see.
Speaking of which they had a good overall load % from TTN in November (89.7%) and Dec (86.1%) but I wonder what the average fares were, if they are doing well?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 102, posted (1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 9235 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 99): I'm not saying we there can't be kiosks but lets keep 1 agent space available for those that don't want to use it, forcing people to use kiosks is not a good idea.
Since I started this, I'll see it through. At the various fully automated airports I've used, there is always a CSA available near the kiosks to help and there is still a counter for those who have problems.
But - for my money - it is a quicker and much more efficient way of checking in, and pleasanter because I've seen very little aggravation compared with standing in line.
That said, I have no idea if Frontier is planning to go down this road - although I'll lay good money it ail happen eventually. So it seems to me that if they are remodelling the terminal at TTN, it seems like a good place to start.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 104, posted (1 month 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 9157 times:
Also looking at the new schedule unless I'm missing something TTN-MDW-DEN becomes a connection in MDW rather than a direct flight. DEN-MDW-TTN remains a direct no change of planes flight. Hopefully when they restart service in November they will have everything fixed and running well. Replace the jetway, expand post security seating, add post security bathroom and atleast a vending machine preferably giving access to the restaurant to the sterile area if possible.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 105, posted (1 month 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 9022 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 104): TTN-MDW-DEN becomes a connection in MDW rather than a direct flight. DEN-MDW-TTN remains a direct no change of planes flight
Do we know where the F9 MDW connecter flight originates from?. The reason I ask last August on a WN flight between BNA-MDW-PVD me and dad were seated next to someone who I understood worked on or with the management team at MDW who mentioned the airport facilities were at capacity. What I don't know is he was talking just WN or all carriers. This may be why we haven't seen more service announced at or through MDW.
You would think facilities and the amount of flights any specific carrier offers would be managed by the carrier. I suppose it could be stress on the ATC system or runways (outside the terminal) The fact that ORD is nearby and the airspace is usually crowded may also be a factor.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
floridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1985 posts, RR: 0 Reply 106, posted (1 month 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 8986 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 103): In the latest schedule extension, TTN-MSY ends on August 12 but resumes on November 8, still as 2 x weekly.
I'm very pleased to see that.
mariner
Looks like it's a runway construction issue, rather than a demand thing. According to this article, it will require the suspension of all F9 TTN flights for about 2 months.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 107, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 8920 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 105): Do we know where the F9 MDW connecter flight originates from?
Actually looking into it further it seems that it is the same plane just a different flight number
Because
F9 915 arrives MDW at 1150am from TTN.
F9 533 departs MDW at 1230pm to DEN
BUT
F9 532 arrives MDW at 1027am from DEN
and departs MDW at 1115am to TTN
So the MDW-TTN flight leaves before the TTN-MDW arrives, since I don't believe there any other destinations from MDW other than DEN and TTN I have to assume that 915 and 533 are the same plane. Which is weird
Connections are easy though at MDW anyway, as they leave out of the small 3 gate Concourse C now.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 108, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8803 times:
PIT is on my mind, as in TTN-PIT.
For some reason, Frontier's few remaining repo flights for Apple have turned up in the OAG - and thus in the OAG thread, attracting, inevitably, a couple of negative comments.
There are four listed, of which one, ORD-STL, is not a repo flight. It carries Apple pax from ORD to STL to connect to some of the south of the border routes, especially the thinner ones such as LIR and HUX.
But CLE-PIT is a repo, which has to happen because Frontier doesn't otherwise serve PIT.
I wonder if it could? I wonder if there is sufficient traffic to make TTN-PIT work. I doubt there'd be a lot of traffic from TTN for the Apple flights, easier to drive to PHL, but TTN-PIT might be useful and could replace, depending on scheduling, the repo. I doubt we will ever see DEN-PIT.
US seems to do well with PHL-PIT and EWR-PIT ain't bad. But I don't know how much that means.
Frontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 28 posts, RR: 0 Reply 109, posted (1 month 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 8780 times:
Jersyguy or anyone know how the Frontier on-time performance at TTN has been over the past three months? Understand the systemwide issues of poor on-time performance for Frontier, but curious as to this new market.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 110, posted (1 month 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 8450 times:
Looks like the TTN Control Tower got a stay of execution and won't be closed till June 15th
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 111, posted (1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8330 times:
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 112, posted (1 month 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 8328 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 103): In the latest schedule extension, TTN-MSY ends on August 12 but resumes on November 8, still as 2 x weekly.
DBCooper From Brazil, joined Jun 2004, 188 posts, RR: 0 Reply 116, posted (1 month 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 7928 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 108): But CLE-PIT is a repo, which has to happen because Frontier doesn't otherwise serve PIT.
CLE-PIT is NOT a repo. It is a live flight for Apple Vacations. So is CLE-CVG. So is ORD-STL. None of them carry local traffic - just Apple Vacations passengers heading to Mexico or the Dominican Republic.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 117, posted (1 month 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 7863 times:
Quoting DBCooper (Reply 116): CLE-PIT is NOT a repo. It is a live flight for Apple Vacations. So is CLE-CVG. So is ORD-STL. None of them carry local traffic - just Apple Vacations passengers heading to Mexico or the Dominican Republic.
"Frontier to offer flights out of New Castle Airport
The Denver-based Frontier Airlines will begin offering flights out of New Castle Airport, returning commercial air service to Delaware for the first time in five years, officials say.
A formal announcement by state and airline officials is scheduled for Tuesday at the airfield off of U.S. 13, according to two commissioners of the Delaware River & Bay Authority, which manages the airport facility. Gov. Jack Markell and U.S. Rep. John Carney are expected to attend."
Hmmmm. I guess it could be scheduled service - but the photo is of the E190, so I wonder if it is something to do with the casino contract?
SFOJFK From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 79 posts, RR: 0 Reply 121, posted (1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7591 times:
Just got this from Frontier today. Runway work will cause TTN flights to cease from Sept to Nov 2013.
Temporary Schedule Suspension at Trenton-Mercer Airport
Dear SFOJFK,
Due to construction of a federally-mandated runway enhancement project scheduled at Trenton-Mercer Airport in Ewing, NJ from Sept. 9 to Nov. 7, 2013 — Frontier Airlines will temporarily stop service from Princeton/Trenton during that time.
This announcement doesn't affect customers who have already purchased travel or who would like to purchase travel to or from Trenton-Mercer Airport prior to Sept. 8, 2013. Booking is also open for flights on or after Nov. 8 through our current schedule extension up to Nov. 13 on FlyFrontier.com.
As of April, Frontier operates service to 10 cities from Trenton, including new nonstop flights to/from Atlanta, Chicago-Midway, Columbus, Detroit and Raleigh/Durham. Book now with low fares starting at $49* one way.
We thank you for your patience regarding this matter, and we look forward to serving the Trenton area before and after this temporary service disruption.
PHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7253 posts, RR: 25 Reply 122, posted (1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 7536 times:
One has to wonder why the runway enhancement project didn't take place before F9 started TTN service. Talk about not so great timing.
Quoting mariner (Reply 118): But here's something I wasn't ready for - Frontier at ILG - Wilmington, Delaware?
One has to wonder when this service will actually start? Should it start this September (when they have to temporarily halt TTN service), this might help keep F9 on the Delaware Valley's radar for those 2 months.
[Edited 2013-04-08 14:25:48]
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 123, posted (1 month 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7503 times:
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 122): One has to wonder why the runway enhancement project didn't take place before F9 started TTN service. Talk about not so great timing.
Availability of Federal funds, perhaps? Originally, it was planned fro this summer, but that was before Frontier turned up and I'm not sure that anyone was quite expecting the success at TTN.
Given the September drop-off in traffic, I don't know if it's a bad thing, because it means they can make the (very necessary) terminal improvements at the same time.
A lot of things have changed since Frontier started TTN.
Quoting mariner (Reply 118): I guess it could be scheduled service - but the photo is of the E190, so I wonder if it is something to do with the casino contract?
I;m corrected again - LOL. An irate dickie bird says it isn't the E190, it's an E170 (Paxton the Puffin) from the original Frontier/Republic contract.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 124, posted (1 month 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7483 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 123): because it means they can make the (very necessary) terminal improvements at the same time.
When they finally decide and get approval from the board to do it , I think they also need to make sure there are signs throughout the terminal as conditions even with the overflow seating aren't going to be good this summer. I hope one of those repairs is the jetway.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 125, posted (1 month 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 7305 times:
Oh look, the TTN controllers are trying to save their ass and are willing to scare the flying public to do it.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 126, posted (1 month 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7207 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 125): Oh look, the TTN controllers are trying to save their ass and are willing to scare the flying public to do it.
As it relates to crowded airspace around the greater NYC a sign reminding the the flying public of the sight seeing helicopter and the small airplane collision over the Hudson river near Teterboro a few years ago would have brought it closer to home.
If memory serves me the the NTSB initial findings blamed a lapse of communication between pilots on the collision. Some of it was also non-regulated air space.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 127, posted (1 month 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 7270 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 126): As it relates to crowded airspace around the greater NYC a sign reminding the the flying public of the sight seeing helicopter and the small airplane collision over the Hudson river near Teterboro a few years ago would have brought it closer to home.
If memory serves me the the NTSB initial findings blamed a lapse of communication between pilots on the collision. Some of it was also non-regulated air space.
Meanwhile, if it doesn't work and they scare enough people, F9 doesn't fill up planes and leaves.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 128, posted (1 month 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 7146 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 127): if it doesn't work and they scare enough people, F9 doesn't fill up planes and leaves.
My Magic 8 ball tells me F9 and TTN are in it for the long haul. F9 has certainly found a niche.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 129, posted (1 month 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 6897 times:
I was fooling around with Flight Aware looking at TTN flights and I saw that one of them I believe from FLL came into Gate 2 at TTN. Knowing that Flight Aware does make errors, I checked flyfrontier.com and they said yes Gate 2. Gate 2 to the best of my knowledge is the broken jetbridge at TTN. Anybody know if they fixed or replaced the jetbridge? or more than likely there were 2 planes there at the same time and one was assigned "Gate 2".
Grab and Go food/beverage area is also open in the Observation area next to SkyLounge.
Items include Soda, Water, Gatorade. Local Papers and USA Today. Snacks and Candy Bars. Fresh Salads, Sandwiches, etc. Ham/Cheese Wrap about $8.50 (not horrible for airport pricing).
(Sorry no pictures)
Observation Area http://flic.kr/p/ebSPiz
(Thats todays (4/16) Frontier 929 to DTW if anyone is wondering)
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 131, posted (3 weeks 6 days 21 hours 9 minutes ago) and read 6254 times:
Looks like F9 will be loaning Mercer County money ($450K) to do improvements to the terminal. It is being reported as Bathrooms in the secure area and redesign of the terminal layout. They also said it would be 0% in exchange for 50% off "passenger facility charges", which I don't know exactly what they mean, maybe they mean terminal rental space fees?
I am a bit disappointed that there is no replacement of the broken Jetbridge but I guess that was deemed as too much money. Personally I think having to board in possible bad weather conditions is a big negative.
Frontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 28 posts, RR: 0 Reply 132, posted (3 weeks 6 days 18 hours 20 minutes ago) and read 6130 times:
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 133, posted (3 weeks 6 days 15 hours 51 minutes ago) and read 6055 times:
If TTN plays there cards right and coordinates through the New Jersey State Agent for Surplus Property SASP it could cost them pennies on the dollar. I hear a-lot of federal excess/surplus property is slowly becoming available as U.S. forces start the draw down in southwest Asia. I would also check https://gsaxcess.gov/ its sort of like Ebay for surplus federal property. TTN may have to pay to have it shipped. A cost comparison would dictate which is most advantageous.
I would think airports network this type of info amongst themselves. I remember when COS was trying to relinquish several loading bridges shortly after West Pac went belly up.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
kingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 18 Reply 134, posted (3 weeks 6 days 15 hours 30 minutes ago) and read 6040 times:
I believe a big issue with the jet bridge in TTN is, if used, doesn't allow F9 to park two Airbuses side by side on the ramp. In order to fit to the aircraft, the Airbus would need to be more centered in the ramp and wouldn't allow two aircraft to park. The other issue with the jet bridge is passengers must go up a flight of stairs in order to get up to the jet bridge. That's not great for strollers, wheelchairs and everyone with their roller bags. There is a tiny 2 person elevator adjacent to the jet bridge but imagine how long it could take to deplane and enplane. The best solution is to expand the ramp area a little and install two new used jet bridges that either connect to an upper gate area or start on the ground level and ramps up to the aircraft.
I believe F9 would use boarding ramps in all locations if they could in order to save money and help prevent aircraft damage. F9 does not use jet bridges in BLI, JAC, DRO, SJD, PVR, ZIH, LIR, CZM, PUJ, BKG, COU, TTN and soon to be ILG.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
"“This investment by Frontier indicates the airline’s commitment to Trenton-Mercer Airport,” Willmot said."
That seems right to me. Did they go ahead with the $200,000 loan (from Frontier) for the development of the parking facility?
So what's interesting now is Frontier develops the airport - and the relationship between TTN and ILG.
I don;t imagine we'll hear of any "new stuff" before the runway closure and the winter schedule may not bring much for growth addicts. But if they have been able to make routes like RDU work, then it seems to me the route map is wide open for anything not much more than about 1000 miles from TTN. And there are a surprising number of cities that don't have LCC service to the TTN/PHL area. Or, like BMI, anything to the northeast at all.
I'd like to see New England - and probably BOS - from TTN, but again, I'm not sure it's something they would start in the winter. Maybe, at two or three weekly.
I suppose there's the possibility of more Florida, but other than perhaps PBI and (even more perhaps) JAX, I'm not sure how much more Florida there is to add.
The biggest drawback at TTN is runway length, and I'm not sure anything will happen with that in the foreseeable future, because I think any attempt to add even 500 feet - and thus the possibility of larger aircraft - might rile up the Nimbys.
But then again - the Nimbys have ben remarkably quiet up till now.
PHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7253 posts, RR: 25 Reply 136, posted (3 weeks 6 days 1 hour 4 minutes ago) and read 5878 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 135): I'd like to see New England - and probably BOS - from TTN, but again, I'm not sure it's something they would start in the winter. Maybe, at two or three weekly.
That service could be subject to how well B6 does w/its PHL-BOS service (which will start a month from now). Should B6 bomb, I could see F9 giving either TTN-BOS or ILG-BOS a go.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 137, posted (3 weeks 6 days 21 minutes ago) and read 5842 times:
I wonder if there might be some viability to resurrect what was the old Weymouth Naval Air Station; 30 miles or so south of Boston. This would take stress of of BOS and cater to those visiting the Cape Cod region seasonally.
Not considering the condition of the facilities it could be another hidden gem mirroring TTN. I believe the Navy close Weymouth around 1995.
ORH in the other direction is another option for BOS but does not cater to the South shore. I lived on the Massachusetts south shore for a couple of years which involved a daily commute into Boston. If I wasn't on Route 93 by 6:00 AM the proverbial parking lot scenario was in play. Fifteen minutes made a huge difference.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 138, posted (3 weeks 5 days 23 hours 14 minutes ago) and read 5811 times:
Seems like Mercer County Freeholders are a very careful bunch every time I read about an improvement at the airport. There always seems to be a question about something.
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2452 posts, RR: 0 Reply 139, posted (3 weeks 5 days 22 hours 42 minutes ago) and read 5775 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 135): I'd like to see New England - and probably BOS - from TTN,
Amtrak is the real competition. Unless they want to offer frequenecy New England is probably out of the question.
Flytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 524 posts, RR: 0 Reply 140, posted (3 weeks 5 days 21 hours 43 minutes ago) and read 5740 times:
What F9 needs if it started it, is an early AM departure out of TTN for TTN-BOS, and many could fly into to BOS this way. The BOS-TTN return might not be as popular though esp if it returns in the late AM, but there'd be those that fly TTN-BOS return via another carrier on EWR, PHL and have to take a taxi from the NJT station back to the TTN parking lot or have someone pick them up from the NJT station.
PHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7253 posts, RR: 25 Reply 141, posted (3 weeks 5 days 21 hours 8 minutes ago) and read 5710 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 137): I wonder if there might be some viability to resurrect what was the old Weymouth Naval Air Station; 30 miles or so south of Boston. This would take stress of of BOS and cater to those visiting the Cape Cod region seasonally.
Unfortunately, there would likely be some serious NIMBY issues with that. Look at the numerous times BED used to offer commercial airline service where the locals whined about the so-called air-traffic noise (from turboprops no less). Additionally, this is a region that took literally 30 years just to build a unidirectional commuter runway at BOS (R/W 14-32) and a similar time-frame to develop/design/replace an elevated highway with a wider tunnelled one (aka The Big Dig).
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 137): Not considering the condition of the facilities it could be another hidden gem mirroring TTN. I believe the Navy close Weymouth around 1995.
That being the case, I'm surprised the original Shuttle America didn't try to fly out of there en lieu of BED.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 137): ORH in the other direction is another option for BOS but does not cater to the South shore
ORH doesn't cater to the North Shore either so what's your point?
That said, ORH could be a possibility.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 137): If I wasn't on Route 93 by 6:00 AM the proverbial parking lot scenario was in play. Fifteen minutes made a huge difference.
Similar could be said for other highways throughout the US. I-76 and US 422 in the Greater Philadelphia area being 2 similar examples and those highways are only 4-laners. With I-93 and Route 3 (south of Braintree); one's at least has 6 lanes.
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2452 posts, RR: 0 Reply 142, posted (3 weeks 5 days 20 hours 30 minutes ago) and read 5680 times:
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 140): What F9 needs if it started it, is an early AM departure out of TTN for TTN-BOS, and many could fly into to BOS this way. The BOS-TTN return might not be as popular though esp if it returns in the late AM, but there'd be those that fly TTN-BOS return via another carrier on EWR, PHL and have to take a taxi from the NJT station back to the TTN parking lot or have someone pick them up from the NJT station
Talk about incredibly inconvenient........They would need 2x daily minimum to have a chance of success and it would be pretty much all business people. You are not going to see alot of leisure people doing this route. College kids in this area are all pretty entrenched on amtrak.
Acela Express is fast from Metropark when you factor in no security wait, no long air traffic control or landing delays, many options if you miss the train, and you arrive right downtown! I would take acela all day long its really nice on board, i can get a ton of work done even wifi, and tons of options so i wont loose time waiting. Airlines have tried TTN-BOS so many times and there certainly is some solid business demand in the Princeton/New Brunswick area but the majority seem happier on amtrak or driving in the end of the day they dont seem to be willing to wait.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 143, posted (3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 5658 times:
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 136): That service could be subject to how well B6 does w/its PHL-BOS service (which will start a month from now). Should B6 bomb, I could see F9 giving either TTN-BOS or ILG-BOS a go.
I think New England is wide open, there are several possible choices. Maybe it could be the ol' Southwest trick - MHT or PVD and not BOS. I'm not so keen on ORH or BED, but who knows?
I do I think the TTN route map is incomplete without New England, and Frontier's low-frequency model nay be a clue as to how they eventually approach it, assuming they do. In which case - low frequency - BOS may be the contender.
I'm guessing we won't know until and unless they add a third aircraft at TTN, which may not be until next summer. I think they're spoiled for choice at TTN, the schedule mostly limited by the size of the terminal.
PHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7253 posts, RR: 25 Reply 144, posted (3 weeks 5 days 19 hours 50 minutes ago) and read 5653 times:
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 142): Airlines have tried TTN-BOS so many times and there certainly is some solid business demand in the Princeton/New Brunswick area but the majority seem happier on amtrak or driving in the end of the day they dont seem to be willing to wait.
If memory serves, most if not all of the airlines that flew TTN-BOS (or BED) either went under (thereby ceasing all operations not just that route) or grossly overcharged to a point that it just wasn't worth utilizing (regional affiliates of legacy carriers).
"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 145, posted (3 weeks 5 days 19 hours 46 minutes ago) and read 5656 times:
Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 144): If memory serves, most if not all of the airlines that flew TTN-BOS (or BED) either went under (thereby ceasing all operations not just that route) or grossly overcharged to a point that it just wasn't worth utilizing (regional affiliates of legacy carriers).
Which is the other key to Frontier at TTN - not just low frequency, but, crucially, low fares.
For a small airport with one airline, it is a big decision and there is a debate as to whether a Frontier loan should fund it or whether part of it should come from reserves - the airport already owes $250,0000 to the airline:
“Our fund is pretty healthy and I did know that passenger facility charge cannot be used for parking areas,” said Freeholder Lucylle Walter during the meeting. “But if we pass the resolution that we have in our packet, it looks like we already have $250K from Frontier?
During the meeting, officials from the airport authority clarified that in addition to the $450,000 requested to upgrade the terminal, Frontier will also fund upwards of $250,000 to develop a new parking lot. The payments must be made separately because passenger facility charges cannot fund external improvement to the airport, like parking facilities.
“That would mean that we would owe $700,000 to Frontier and at $250 of passenger facility charges per flight paid back, I hope they have a very long and prosperous relationship with the airport,” joked Walter."
Which would imply that the airport charges are a pretty good deal - for Frontier.
Flytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 524 posts, RR: 0 Reply 147, posted (3 weeks 5 days 14 hours 36 minutes ago) and read 5478 times:
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 142): Talk about incredibly inconvenient........They would need 2x daily minimum to have a chance of success and it would be pretty much all business people. You are not going to see alot of leisure people doing this route. College kids in this area are all pretty entrenched on amtrak.
A lot of business travelers of high income live in Princeton-Plainsboro area, Newtown-Yardley, and TTN is a far closer drive without the morning traffic or lengthy train rides of EWR or PHL from these areas. This would prove very convenient, even if used more for the outbound while the pax uses UA or B6 for the evening return into EWR or PHL and then takes NJT. A flight arriving anytime before 8:30 AM in BOS isn't inconvenient for the business pax working in BOS.
JetBlue's presence on BOS-EWR and BOS-PHL is primarily aimed for the BOS based traveler, although it does stimulate low fares for all, including leisure pax out of EWR and PHL. I've heard of college students using MegaBus and china town buses over Amtrak as Amtrak is generally too expensive for them.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 148, posted (3 weeks 4 days 11 hours 18 minutes ago) and read 5315 times:
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 149, posted (3 weeks 4 days 2 hours 10 minutes ago) and read 5221 times:
It looks like the law allows the FAA to redistribute/reapportion upwards of a quarter of a billion dollars the agency was forbidden from touching for the remainder of fiscal year 13 or Sept 30.
Ironically the passage of this late light law comes on the heels as the Congress prepares to disembark the nations capital for a Spring break of sorts today and across the weekend. I suppose lawmakers didn't want to have to deal with the same flight delays the common folk do.
In they eyes of safety of the flying public this is good news for TTN and F9.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
enilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 6132 posts, RR: 13 Reply 150, posted (3 weeks 4 days 14 minutes ago) and read 5179 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 146): Which would imply that the airport charges are a pretty good deal - for Frontier.
mariner
I think given F9's short stint in other focus cities, it is not surprising that TTN might want to see a little more success before committing funds even if F9 is financing it. I'm assuming F9 could still leave and TTN would owe them anyway.
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2452 posts, RR: 0 Reply 151, posted (3 weeks 3 days 23 hours 34 minutes ago) and read 5148 times:
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 147): I've heard of college students using MegaBus and china town buses over Amtrak as Amtrak is generally too expensive for them
Sure some do but most use amtrak more for sure. Fro example lets use Boston students most live in NJ/NY/CT suburbs and its much easier to get to Stamford, Metropark, princeton junction, or newark from their homes. Its incredibly inconvient to get to China Town and those pickups from the burbs. Even NJ Transit or Metro North connetions to amtrak are easy. Sure student with their friends might use megabus to visit for the day with friends to the city center but not for travelling home for the weekend that is Amtrak Central.
To pull it back Basically Frontier would not get the college crowd on board, Amtrak is just too perfect for their parents to drop them off and head straight in by train with frequency. Same could be said for students headed to Princeton, Rutgers, UPenn, Yale, Columbia, URI etc etc etc if you live in the Northeast Corridor Amtrak is just so convenient for college kids Frontier wont win them over. I just dont see TTN-BOS being successful without high frequency. They wont win business travellers, college kids, leisure crowd (theyll drive)
ScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6359 posts, RR: 34 Reply 152, posted (3 weeks 3 days 17 hours 30 minutes ago) and read 5101 times:
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 147): A lot of business travelers of high income live in Princeton-Plainsboro area, Newtown-Yardley, and TTN is a far closer drive without the morning traffic or lengthy train rides of EWR or PHL from these areas. This would prove very convenient, even if used more for the outbound while the pax uses UA or B6 for the evening return into EWR or PHL and then takes NJT.
Except the sort of ground transportation you suggest just isn't convenient for business travelers. The convenience gained by using TTN in one direction and PHL in the other is outweighed by the inconvenience of changing trains at 30th St. Station in Philadelphia and then taking a cab from Trenton to TTN to pick up one's car.
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 137): I wonder if there might be some viability to resurrect what was the old Weymouth Naval Air Station; 30 miles or so south of Boston. This would take stress of of BOS and cater to those visiting the Cape Cod region seasonally.
Not considering the condition of the facilities it could be another hidden gem mirroring TTN. I believe the Navy close Weymouth around 1995.
NAS South Weymouth closed in 1997 and it's extremely unlikely that it would ever reopen as a commercial airport. There's housing nearby in every direction and the region currently does not suffer a lack of commercial airport capacity.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 153, posted (3 weeks 3 days 17 hours 28 minutes ago) and read 5106 times:
Quoting enilria (Reply 150): I think given F9's short stint in other focus cities, it is not surprising that TTN might want to see a little more success before committing funds even if F9 is financing it. I'm assuming F9 could still leave and TTN would owe them anyway.
As in this article, the debate isn't about whether they should take out a loan from Frontier for the terminal improvements:
"The other proposal is a $7.1 million bond ordinance, allowing the county to take out bonds for long-term construction projects at the airport. The ordinance sought for the board to allow the county to bond for $3 million for the construction of a parking facility at the airport. The passenger facility charge fund cannot be used toward the construction of any parking facility, Hughes said."
Unsurprisingly, that proposal was also postponed until next month.
Given that they'e being asked to approve a $3 million bond for the parking structure at the same time the debate is about whether they should take out an additional loan from anyone for the terminal remodel, or fund it from reserves.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 154, posted (3 weeks 3 days 11 hours 41 minutes ago) and read 4997 times:
Just a shot in the dark, I'm thinking its probably not workable. 2 questions
1. what are the differences in costs per passenger between SRQ and TPA.
2. Anyone know how TTN-TPA is doing?
I'll assume by now, you know where I'm going, if the numbers work, perhaps TTN-SRQ could be given a shot at 2x-3x a week. There are people who prefer SRQ to TPA. If tha airport board would be willing to give some incentives and TPA was doing well, perhaps something could be tried. There is no service between PHL or EWR and SRQ. Only JFK
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 156, posted (3 weeks 3 days 1 hour 2 minutes ago) and read 4889 times:
It appears there may be a shift where State National Guard forces receive training prior to deploy to Southwest Asia.
Across the last ten or so years National Guard forces received training in Mississippi for several weeks prior to deploying to SWA (Southwest Asia). This may be specialized training for the demobilization from the SWA theater. Although charters would most likely be involved directly into the McGuire; significant troop straggler travel does occur. Given TTN geographical location to Fort Dix and McGuire AFB (20 miles) it might be worth F9 to keep an eye on high density travel from the cities it serves around military installations to TTN. In the charter arena F9 is an approved carrier on the HQ U.S. Transportation Command for military charters.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 159, posted (2 weeks 6 days 17 hours 33 minutes ago) and read 4322 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 157): As on the last conference call, Frontier is leasing 2 x A320 this year . The second one (August?) may be the one you mean, but I don't know the MSN.
There seems to have been a change to that. Listening to the latest conference call, today, I checked the fleet plan and it now seems Frontier is leasing 3 x A320 this year.
The A320 fleet is scheduled to increase from 16 to 19:
The first is (I believe) to be factory fresh, so I still think the second A320 may be the one you mean - coming from an Asian airline in August? - but I still don't have the MSN.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 160, posted (2 weeks 4 days 2 hours 2 minutes ago) and read 4100 times:
Ah to think I was concerned that Trenton area NIMBYism was dead.
Flytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 524 posts, RR: 0 Reply 161, posted (2 weeks 3 days 16 hours 18 minutes ago) and read 3969 times:
Quoting ScottB (Reply 152): Except the sort of ground transportation you suggest just isn't convenient for business travelers. The convenience gained by using TTN in one direction and PHL in the other is outweighed by the inconvenience of changing trains at 30th St. Station in Philadelphia and then taking a cab from Trenton to TTN to pick up one's car.
Not if pax lands in EWR. It's one train to Trenton. And the pax would in one scenario have to take that train anyways if they flew EWR-BOS return BOS-EWR. Most from Princeton/Central NJ use EWR over PHL.
Taking a cab that's a reimbursed expense isn't a hassle. What's more a hassle is driving early in the morning from Central NJ to reach EWR, or waiting for a limo/shared car and the drive is still there, or using the trains in both ways, over flying from a nearby airport and having free parking.
For those in SE PA, the changing of SEPTA trains at 30th Street on an evening commute isn't a big deal. Many that live in SE PA change trains, and obviously not everyone is driving and parking.
Flytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 524 posts, RR: 0 Reply 162, posted (2 weeks 3 days 15 hours 58 minutes ago) and read 3949 times:
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 151): Sure some do but most use amtrak more for sure. Fro example lets use Boston students most live in NJ/NY/CT suburbs and its much easier to get to Stamford, Metropark, princeton junction, or newark from their homes.
Amtrak doesn't service Princeton Junction or Metropark. NJ Transit does along with many more stations in NJ. It goes into NYC where those "inconvenient" buses can be found.
Given that Amtrak's minimum time is 4hrs15mins from Newark to Boston on a Acela Express and not lower than $125, an F9 TTN flight under 1 hour of travel time can be competitive for leisure pax.
rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2851 posts, RR: 7 Reply 163, posted (2 weeks 3 days 15 hours 42 minutes ago) and read 3928 times:
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 162): Amtrak doesn't service Princeton Junction or Metropark. NJ Transit does along with many more stations in NJ.
Yes they do (and so does NJ Transit as well). I've used Amtrak on both stations, and Metropark is my primary Amtrak station. Both are on Northeast Regional, and I think some Keystone trains run into Princeton as well. I don't think Princeton is an Accela stop, but Metropark is.
slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2452 posts, RR: 0 Reply 164, posted (2 weeks 3 days 11 hours 29 minutes ago) and read 3876 times:
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 162): Amtrak doesn't service Princeton Junction or Metropark
Sorry but they do with amazing FREQUENCY plus great service to Trenton station which gets alot of politicians who can walk its so close to where they are or need to go. I doubt Frontier can be competative for leisure passengers on a TTN-BOS run I'm sorry they just wont be. All of the carriers that served the route and failed got pretty much all business travellers and alot doing non overnight runs for the day. Historically they really suffered to get people on the flights to BOS area but flights to florida from TTN have always filled.
Flytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 524 posts, RR: 0 Reply 165, posted (2 weeks 3 days 3 hours 10 minutes ago) and read 3802 times:
Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 164): Sorry but they do with amazing FREQUENCY plus great service to Trenton station which gets alot of politicians who can walk its so close to where they are or need to go. I doubt Frontier can be competative for leisure passengers on a TTN-BOS run I'm sorry they just wont be. All of the carriers that served the route and failed got pretty much all business travellers and alot doing non overnight runs for the day. Historically they really suffered to get people on the flights to BOS area but flights to florida from TTN have always filled.
There is Amtrak service from MET to BOS, but the travel time is long and nothing earlier than 10am departing on a weekday.
Northeast Regional
Departs: 10:08 AM
Wed May 15 2013
Metropark-Iselin, NJ (MET)
Arrives: 3:12 PM
Wed May 15 2013
Boston, MA - South Station (BOS)
Duration: 5 hr, 4 min
That's pretty much a day of not being on a client site gone and much more of an inconvenience.
TRE-BOS has more trips and one arriving BOS at 12:43pm but the AM is gone.
The other carriers like DL were charging 3x out of TTN more than comparable rates elsewhere out of PHL.
The Amtrak fare above is $81. Looking at F9's comparable fares booked 7-10 days or more in advance to destinations over twice the distance (e.g. Trenton-Chicago), I think F9 would price it lower than DL did, and competitively, and the time saved would be a huge savings.
rampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2851 posts, RR: 7 Reply 166, posted (2 weeks 3 days 55 minutes ago) and read 3744 times:
Quoting Flytravel (Reply 165): That's pretty much a day of not being on a client site gone and much more of an inconvenience.
So they do have service, which you originally said they didn't. If not Metropark, there are at least 4 morning trains from Newark Penn Station to Boston, including an Accela, 7 morning trains from Philadelphia 30th Street including 3 Accelas, and 3 morning trains from Trenton. Airline: 90 minute getting through the airport + 60 minute flight + 30 minute leaving the airport (waiting to get off, waiting for a cab or train), so 3 hours (using PHL or EWR as my experience, TTN would be better). I'm not counting getting to/from the airport since one has to do that with a train station anyhow. I'm not counting delays, which do happen on Amtrak, but are certainly more likely at EWR or PHL. I'm not with a client, but I certainly get more uninterrupted work done on a train than I do on a plane. Lots of waiting on a plane -- to go through security, to line up at the gate, to wait for the plane to take off and pass 10,000ft, and then to land -- all time I can't use my computer. Love airlines, but given a choice on getting around in the Northeast for business purposes, Amtrak wins for me.
If F9 did schedule something useful, at least 2x daily, TTN to BOS, maybe it would work. It would certainly be convenient for those living in or near Mercer County. But likely not Philly metro, and likely not NYC metro.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 167, posted (2 weeks 2 days 23 hours 58 minutes ago) and read 3728 times:
Quoting rampart (Reply 163): Yes they do (and so does NJ Transit as well)
I was getting ready to say I looked at the Amtrak route maps a few months ago and saw a Philadelphia-Trenton-New York route. http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/amtrak. It looks like Amtrak serves the Trenton to Newark eight times daily starting at 5:45 AM; the last being 8:30PM-ish. The Amtrak fares can be pricy though.
I still think Megabus should consider a PHL-TTN-NYC route which would mirror their Virginia Tech service at Blacksburg, VA which is a stop at a Park & Ride on I-81 on the Washington D.C. Knoxville, TN route. College students use Megabus as an economical mode of transportation.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
"Attention leaders of Mercer County and Ewing Township. And while we’re at it, attention all businesses within a 50 mile radius, anyone who owns a home, anyone who’s looking for a job, anyone at all: Make sure Trenton-Mercer Airport becomes what it should become, namely a one of America’s major regional airports."
He makes the economic case, and then ends with:
"If it was up to me, I’d expand the airport, get more carriers in here, turn this sucker into what it could be. No one can tell me this is not a good idea.
I was at the airport the other morning, 7 a.m. Parking lot was full, and there was a bustle to the place I never saw before. An Orlando flight was boarding, and it had the feel of a “real” airport.
I could only imagine what it could look like, what it could be, what it should be."
Start by adding 500 feet to the runway, I say. I have zero access to actual numbers, but a few dickie birds, not all at Frontier, are singing sweet songs about ILG-DEN - and that 500 feet would make TTN-DEN possible.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 169, posted (2 weeks 2 days 18 hours 41 minutes ago) and read 3645 times:
Re: 500 feet to the runway
Now that the Nimbys have shown up I think went from a slim to none anytime soon
" We will not be lengthening any runways. We are improving the airport, not expanding it."
But if the debate is whether TTN stays as it is or if it grows, then the runway is the first thing that should happen, far more so than smart, new, expensive terminals.
The joke is that by the time the runway safety improvements are made, the runway will be at the required length - just that the additional 500 feet won't be "usable" runway.
Presently, TTN is limited to routes of (about) 1100 miles or less and there are many good and interesting choices in that range, but ultimately, TTN has to decide what it wants to be when it grows up.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 171, posted (2 weeks 2 days 16 hours 24 minutes ago) and read 3598 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 170): Presently, TTN is limited to routes of (about) 1100 miles or less
I've never understood that thesis. In my mind the distance any specific airframe wanted to attempt would be based on weight of the aircraft lifting out with pax, luggage and fuel.
I'm assuming F9 departs out of TTN with enough fuel plus the required reserve. In my mind the airframe should get lighter the further it flies in the fuel burn department. To my understanding AVGAS weighs roughly 6 pounds a gallon.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 172, posted (2 weeks 2 days 15 hours 14 minutes ago) and read 3579 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 171): I'm assuming F9 departs out of TTN with enough fuel plus the required reserve. In my mind the airframe should get lighter the further it flies in the fuel burn department.
I could be wrong but I think the deal is that the A319 can't take off with the amount of fuel and reserve necessary to fly the 1700 miles to DEN with the amount of runway it has. I assume they could take a weight restriction but it would make it uneconomical to fly the flight.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 173, posted (2 weeks 2 days 14 hours 57 minutes ago) and read 3578 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 172): I could be wrong but I think the deal is that the A319 can't take off with the amount of fuel and reserve necessary to fly the 1700 miles to DEN with the amount of runway it has.
That's how I understand it.
As it is, Frontier has to use the higher thrust A319's at TTN. It's one reason why N902FR is being upgraded to higher thrust - they need 'em for a couple of other airports as well.
The CEO has said they don't have an aircraft with the right engine performance (for TTN-DEN) but that they are "actively" working on it.
I'm no Tech Wallah and I don't if he means that there is an A319/engine variant out there that could do it, and I don't know if sharklets would help.
kingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 18 Reply 174, posted (2 weeks 2 days 14 hours 1 minute ago) and read 3541 times:
I believe F9 needs to start DEN-TTN nonstop with a departure late in the morning to pick up west coast connections. They can continue to flag stop MDW or DTW for the TTN-DEN leg.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 175, posted (2 weeks 2 days 13 hours 20 minutes ago) and read 3514 times:
Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 174):
I believe F9 needs to start DEN-TTN nonstop with a departure late in the morning to pick up west coast connections. They can continue to flag stop MDW or DTW for the TTN-DEN leg.
Yeah, currently the 1 stop in MDW leaves at 715am, no connections possible. If they are so enthusatic about TTN-DEN they need to do a DEN-TTN nonstop that would allow connection.
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 176, posted (2 weeks 2 days 13 hours 14 minutes ago) and read 3509 times:
Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 174): I believe F9 needs to start DEN-TTN nonstop with a departure late in the morning to pick up west coast connections. They can continue to flag stop MDW or DTW for the TTN-DEN leg.
Flights like that have certainly been done before...one-stop in one direction, nonstop in the other. One of the best examples I can think of was an old TW flight...STL-HNL on a 757...made a tech stop westbound, but it was nonstop eastbound. I think this is a good idea.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 177, posted (2 weeks 1 day 23 hours 59 minutes ago) and read 3421 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 175): Yeah, currently the 1 stop in MDW leaves at 715am, no connections possible.
The ANC-DEN and ANC-FAI flights do when they fly seasonally. F9 flight from ANC arrives in DEN about 5:15 AM daily. The FAI-DEN flight a hour or so later on the days it flies. I suspect you are talking non-traditional red-eye flights.
I'm not sure I would want to make that may stops between Alaska (the State) and TTN. I think AS flies SEA-EWR non-stop.
I do ponder if a series of 5:00 AM departures from left coast gateways which might include LAX, SFO, SEA, PDX and LAS and PHX for good measure which would be branded as sunrise flights might work. A bank of left coast sunrise departures beats a lot of the I-5 congestion and should get the flier into DEN to meet the 0715 departure to MDW and would actually get a flier to the East coast at a decent time of day considering the time change.
The armchair route planner in me remains curious about a future SEA-MDW-TTN flight which connects to the DEN-MDW flight. I believe the other modes of transportation infrastructure are in place from TTN-Philly and TTN-NYC which would allow these routes to work.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
STT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16256 posts, RR: 52 Reply 178, posted (2 weeks 1 day 23 hours 32 minutes ago) and read 3407 times:
Again the F9 commercials are running constantly on my local cable provider, Cablevision, as well as on local radio and on highway billboards. Kudos to F9 for the strong spread the word campaign. I speak to folks, who are novices about this sort of stuff but are always on the look out for air travel bargains, and they're all aware of the new service at TTN.
Hopefully F9 endures and continues to grow their service, if not I think they've validated the concept to the point if F9 were to disappear someone (NK, G4, B6 etc..) would come to TTN.
MSYtristar From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 6242 posts, RR: 51 Reply 179, posted (2 weeks 1 day 23 hours 29 minutes ago) and read 3409 times:
I saw a F9 ad at one of the commuter rail stations in between Trenton and Wilmington last week. We were flying by at 110mph but I clearly made out the animal tail. That's a very good way to get the brand out there considering thousands of people use those local stops everyday.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 180, posted (2 weeks 1 day 20 hours 35 minutes ago) and read 3348 times:
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 181, posted (2 weeks 1 day 20 hours 18 minutes ago) and read 3339 times:
Re: large amount of advertising.
Where are the billboards? There used to be one on rt 1 south near the Quakerbridge mall but when I went by it a month ago it was no longer there. Also I assume the radio ads are NJ1015?
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 182, posted (2 weeks 1 day 18 hours 45 minutes ago) and read 3323 times:
Quoting STT757 (Reply 178): Hopefully F9 endures and continues to grow their service, if not I think they've validated the concept to the point if F9 were to disappear someone (NK, G4, B6 etc..) would come to TTN.
They sure have, I was in TTN a few hours ago to grab a bite to eat and watch the planes. Both terminal lots were full and 80% of the remote lot was full. WOW If F9 were to disappear, I would hope it would be WN but I know thats not likely, but please no NK or G4.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 183, posted (2 weeks 23 hours 41 minutes ago) and read 3168 times:
It would be nice if hobby HAM radio operator in the area might consider hosting TTN ATC communications. TTN would be a nice addition to the network. I suppose I could listen to PHL ATC for the occasional F9 flight flying to in our out of TTN.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 184, posted (2 weeks 15 hours 21 minutes ago) and read 3092 times:
A friend who works for the Defense Logistics Agency (DLA) located a excess/surplus property jet loading bridge on a military installation in Sagami, Japan.
If TTN is interested in obtaining the jet bridge it would normally be available for pennies on the dollar. TTN would have to pay for slow barge transportation to Bayonne N.J. I suppose. I'm attempting to get a picture of it. From past experience you don't want to go into these things blind. The loading bridge may very well need some work to bring it back to life. I'll know more when I receive the federal condition code. As a general rule the military usually does a good job in the maintenance department of their equipment.
TTN would have to engage the N.J. State Agent for Surplus Property (SASP) who would liaison between the federal government and the State of N.J. The SASP would obtain the property for the TTN airport authority.
If TTN is interested they can contact me via the A.net email interface and I will put them in contact with the U.S. military property people in Japan.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 185, posted (2 weeks 15 hours 1 minute ago) and read 3077 times:
Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 184): If TTN is interested they can contact me via the A.net email interface and I will put them in contact with the U.S. military property people in Japan.
Maybe it might be easier if you just emailed them at flyttn at mercercounty.org
cessna2 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 268 posts, RR: 1 Reply 186, posted (2 weeks 12 hours 9 minutes ago) and read 3034 times:
I was looking at flights between RDU-TTN during september and got an error message saying service was suspended until November 7th due to runway upgrade. anyone know more about this? Sorry if its been previously discussed. Do not have time to read all 185 replies
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 187, posted (2 weeks 11 hours 50 minutes ago) and read 3021 times:
Quoting cessna2 (Reply 186): I was looking at flights between RDU-TTN during september and got an error message saying service was suspended until November 7th due to runway upgrade.
"Frontier Airlines will suspend flights at Trenton-Mercer Airport this fall for runway work
Frontier Airlines will suspend its flight schedule from Trenton-Mercer Airport for two months this fall while a safety enhancement project is installed on the airport’s main runway, the airline said yesterday.
Officials said flights will be suspended on Sept. 9 and resume Nov. 8, after the project is completed."
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 188, posted (2 weeks 3 hours 27 minutes ago) and read 2931 times:
Just found these photos on facebook. Not sure if this is the ad agency doing the Frontier Trenton Ad campaign but they sure do have alot of pics of Frontier Advertisements. Including one on a dry cleaning bag stating "Finally an airline that won't take you to the cleaners"
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 189, posted (1 week 6 days 2 hours 21 minutes ago) and read 2778 times:
As said in one of the comments "What a great problem for TTN to have"
When I was there one day 75-80% of the REMOTE lot was filled.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 190, posted (1 week 5 days 17 hours 10 minutes ago) and read 2643 times:
Does TTN have a means to verify or validate vehicles parked at the airport are travelers or authorized to park there?
With free parking I could see potential abuse i.e.carpool parking. It seems to me a parked vehicle would have to show a ticket stub or something which indicated the car was parked on aviation business a traveler etc to exit the airport or be fined.
If TTN were to install a control gate and those concrete "jersey" barriers those who abuse free parking on non airport related business could potentially be a revenue stream for the airport.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 191, posted (1 week 5 days 15 hours 48 minutes ago) and read 2600 times:
I don't think its that people are carpooling illegally, I think its because alot of people are using the airport. Frontier estimated they needed 1200 spaces, I would estimate there are 600 spaces in the two main lots and 100-150 spaces in the remote lot. When they talk about an ordinance they are talking about allowing the airport to issue bonds to build the parking garage they want to build (I'm reading a $3mil parking facility is probably a parking garage and not just a lot)
Until then they need to use all available space such as this grassy area at the main entrance. http://flic.kr/p/ehDjHZ
They also need to get the employee parking out of the main lot. There are sections for the Sherriffs (who can park near the terminal on the tarmac but out of the way of the planes and TSA and WFS (Frontier Contractor) will have to park in the remote lot and take the shuttle.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 192, posted (1 week 3 days 20 hours 32 minutes ago) and read 2420 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 191): I don't think its that people are carpooling illegally, I think its because alot of people are using the airport. Frontier estimated they needed 1200 spaces, I would estimate there are 600 spaces in the two main lots and 100-150 spaces in the remote lot.
It all seems to be coming to a head, and the last paragraph of this article suggests that a nod (but maybe not yet an approval), has been given for the terminal improvements and the parking structure:
Trenton people claim there are 1300 parking spaces available, all up:
"Trenton-Mercer Airport parking tickets start flying along with increased flights
“Flying from the airport was a great experience,” he said. “It is so easy to get on the plane and everything works out very well out there, except for the parking. You are going to get a lot of upset people.”
The problem is not a lack of parking, county officials said. Construction was recently completed on three remote lots with 440 spots, in addition to the 870 that are within walking distance of the passenger terminal.
Willmot said Frontier had advised that the county that its expanded service would create the need for about 1,200 parking spaces. The airport now has 1,310 spots, she said.
In an effort to avoid further problems, on Tuesday the freeholder board asked the county administration to expedite creation of a parking ordinance for the airport.
County Executive Brian Hughes has said the county will seek several improvements to the airport, including another parking lot and improvements to the terminal to accommodate the increase in Frontier passengers"
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 193, posted (1 week 3 days 13 hours 45 minutes ago) and read 2338 times:
I'm in Chicago right now, when I came thru Trenton, the shuttle driver told me "Don't even bother trying to find a space near the terminal on Friday Saturday and Sunday, just go to the remote lot. The remote lot was pretty full this morning when I left.
Now, that they have multiple flights, security has gotten backed up. It took an half an hour to get thru this morning. When I flew to MCO in January it only took 10. Flight was full too, the flight attendant told me they were expecting only to have 3 seats left and that she had been experiencing similar loads for the past couple days. She also told me that she was positive that when they finished the EMAS project, the extra 250ft woild be enough to do a DEN nonstop, so I'll take her comments with a grain of salt.
kingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 18 Reply 194, posted (1 week 3 days 13 hours 37 minutes ago) and read 2309 times:
Did you notice the installation of a CTX machine? I heard TTN was getting one and that should help with the security delays.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 196, posted (1 week 3 days 12 hours 51 minutes ago) and read 2277 times:
kingcavalier From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 1283 posts, RR: 18 Reply 198, posted (1 week 3 days 11 hours 3 minutes ago) and read 2215 times:
The Denver Zoo has some photos on their Facebook of today's dedication of the bird house. I like the A319 winglets.
Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 200, posted (1 week 3 days 23 minutes ago) and read 2105 times:
The statehouse in Trenton is a zoo but I don't think they can sponsor them. Its gotten better since we elected an Elephant (insert Chris Christie fat joke here) to be the leader.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 201, posted (1 week 2 days 12 hours 25 minutes ago) and read 2001 times:
ILG has a new website, which seems to be more concerned with the commercial side of things - as in Frontier - than the other ILG/New Castle airport site:
I'm not sure what it means. Most F9 managers act as regional performance managers with oversight of two or more cities. TTN, MDT, ABE and PHL are managed by Frontier's PHL City Manager. Maybe F9 feels TTN needs more attention or maybe with ILG coming online it's too much area for person to cover?
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 205, posted (1 week 1 day 15 hours 11 minutes ago) and read 1843 times:
Quoting kingcavalier (Reply 198): The Denver Zoo has some photos on their Facebook of today's dedication of the bird house. I like the A319 winglets.
Something has changed at Frontier, and I donlt mean the move to ULCC, hey seem much more conscious of getting the name out.
Given the animal association, Denver Zoo should have been a sponsorship years ago and I'm pleased to see it happening now.
Same at TTN. After the initial burst of publicity (billboards, etc) I really like the "maintenance" publicity - the busses and, especially, the dry-cleaners:
Hopefully helping make Frontier part of the conceptual infrastructure of Trenton. I believe they're planning a similar approach at ILG, and I hope it works as well.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 206, posted (1 week 1 day 14 hours 5 minutes ago) and read 1775 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 205): Same at TTN. After the initial burst of publicity (billboards, etc) I really like the "maintenance" publicity - the busses and, especially, the dry-cleaners:
With F9 being the only game in town in TTN I think this advertising blitz is solely to get the word out.
IMO the "Finally An Airline That Won't Take You To The Cleaners" caption needs to go. If the intent is to address potentially higher fares at EWR and PHL when compared to TTN I think the flying public is queued in.
I still think F9 would want to advertise specifically to the military community at Joint-Base McGuire-Dix Lakehurst using the Army-Air Force-Exchange-System as a platform. http://gomdl.com/itt/itt-offices-info/ As our Patriots arrive home from Southwest Asia guess where they're going. Orlando.
Here is the Orlando ITT office managed by the Navy http://www.militarydisneytips.com/bl...ffice-navy-exchange-and-commisary/ Ironically the Orlando office is across the street on the backside of MCO. What was a very large CO hanger was viewable from the parking lot where the ITT office was located,.
Many years ago we used ITT at Nellis AFB in LAS and received free tickets to a ventriloquist show at the Rio.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
IllinoisMan From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 117 posts, RR: 0 Reply 207, posted (1 week 1 day 10 hours 36 minutes ago) and read 1692 times:
I know a few people from New Jersey who were hoping that WN would choose TTN as their next airport in the region, but they did not. I guess we know why now. WN does a VERY careful examination of the airport and its political environment. I guess they saw that the City Hall in Trenton looked at their airport as a cash cow...'rewarding' the few people that were using it with massive fines and towering costs. I hope TTN is happy now.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 22711 posts, RR: 88 Reply 208, posted (1 week 1 day 10 hours 26 minutes ago) and read 1700 times:
Quoting IllinoisMan (Reply 207): I guess they saw that the City Hall in Trenton looked at their airport as a cash cow...'rewarding' the few people that were using it with massive fines and towering costs. I hope TTN is happy now.
I'm sorry, I flat out don't understand that.
Frontier seems happy, the passengers seem happy, the airport seems happy, the businesses in Trenton seem happy and I assume City Hall is happy, too.
The Nimbys may not be, that's been going for twenty years, whatever airline, they're a fact of life.
GentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2069 posts, RR: 2 Reply 209, posted (1 week 1 day 1 hour 53 minutes ago) and read 1610 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 208): Frontier seems happy, the passengers seem happy, the airport seems happy, the businesses in Trenton seem happy and I assume City Hall is happy, too.
Others might call it a missed opportunity on WN part.
Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 210, posted (1 week 1 day 1 hour 31 minutes ago) and read 1610 times:
From what I understand, WN was in talks with TTN and they went south when NIMBYs and some of the county freeholders blocked the building of a modern terminal. I guess with the NIMBYs and their 10 flight rule they decieded not to come to TTN. 10 flights would have never operated out of the current terminal. Maybe out of a renovated one.
But yes they did miss out on a opportunity if they pushed hard enough they could have easily gotten the renovations done to the terminal.
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 211, posted (1 week 20 hours 12 minutes ago) and read 1553 times:
Does anyone have the info on crosswinds at TTN for the past 3-5 days? I flew in from Chicago on Sunday and we landed on Runway 24 rather than the runway 6. Flight Aware shows that 532 has been landing on 24 for the past few days. Just wondering. It was an interesting approach as we came in above houses at around 500 feet according to the flight map. It certainly wasn't a smooth landing. Pilot used alot of runway but it was windy, we almost missed our turn onto Taxiway A.
wagz From United States of America, joined Mar 2003, 504 posts, RR: 18 Reply 212, posted (1 week 16 hours 22 minutes ago) and read 1466 times:
Quoting jerseyguy (Reply 211): Does anyone have the info on crosswinds at TTN for the past 3-5 days? I flew in from Chicago on Sunday and we landed on Runway 24 rather than the runway 6. Flight Aware shows that 532 has been landing on 24 for the past few days. Just wondering. It was an interesting approach as we came in above houses at around 500 feet according to the flight map. It certainly wasn't a smooth landing. Pilot used alot of runway but it was windy, we almost missed our turn onto Taxiway A.
Runway 6 usage at TTN would normally be the "exception". Prevailing winds in this part of the country are usually westerly. Before mid-week last week, we were stuck in what I would call in my experience, a very unusual weather pattern. Easterly winds dominated for nearly two weeks straight. We were stuck on a Rwy 9 operation down here at PHL much to my annoyance. We even had almost a full week of clear blue skies and east winds, which is strange for extended periods.
I think Big Foot is blurry, Its not the photographers fault. Theres a large out of focus monster roaming the countryside
jerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1108 posts, RR: 0 Reply 213, posted (1 week 16 hours 15 minutes ago) and read 1464 times:
All the planes I've seen land on video or in person (including the flight from MCO I was on in early February) landed on runway 6, I guess I must of just seen the exceptions. I thought Rwy 6 was normal.
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