OA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 24924 posts, RR: 60 Reply 5, posted (2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 14119 times:
No such thing as zero or £1 fares . Expect to pay GBP55-65 at least when you take everything into account. What you pay at the check out is what most people want to know.
OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ "Η ΕΛΛΑΔΑ ΨΗΛΑ" "GREECE FLYING HIGH"
flyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1005 posts, RR: 1 Reply 8, posted (2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 13996 times:
Quoting DLD9S (Reply 7): So that is a £17.00 fare in my book as that goes directly to the carrier's pocket. It might appear as a "tax", but it is not.
Agreed, but it comes with the implied promise that if oil drops to $20, it will go away.
Last time oil prices eased significantly, YQ rates went down. Slowly, but they went down. Until oil went back up and airlines jacked up YQ rates again.
[Edited 2013-03-18 07:59:02]
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
BlueShamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2515 posts, RR: 25 Reply 11, posted (2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13375 times:
Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 9):
I hope they open up some comptetitve pricing on the LHR - MAN route as BA has been creeping up the fares since the absorbtion of BMI
£112 return seems, these days, a perfectly reasonable fare for MAN-LHR return.
That's a RETURN fare of £8 plus taxes, and you can get that for travel as soon as tomorrow, right through until Christmas:
Fare: £8
Government, authority and airport charges Per adult
Air Passenger Duty - United Kingdom GBP26.00
Passenger Service Charge - United Kingdom GBP34.10
Total government, authority and airport charges* GBP60.10
British Airways fees and surcharges Per adult
Fuel Surcharge** GBP37.00
Total British Airways fees and surcharges GBP37.00
More information
Total taxes, fees and surcharges per person GBP97.10
Total Fare: £106 return.
Even if you regard the Fuel Surcharge as indirect fare of £37, it has been a long, long time since the basic fare was ever less than the £45 it currently is.
Rgds
So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
GCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1104 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 13222 times:
I have never been able to see how the "fuel surcharge" or "passenger service charges" are classed by BA as "taxes", they cover some of the basic costs of providing their product (fuel and facilities) - every other business in the world regards this as part of "cost of sales". Anyway, rant over, as someone above said, "zero fares" will equal somewhere in the £100-£120 return region on BA which, if you are lucky, is about what is already charged. However, VS will hopefully stop or slow the price escalation that BA has been steadily applying as a monopoly on these routes.
FYI - I booked yesterday for a flight in two week's time on Easy LTN-EDI-LTN for £75 return including all fees (incl. credit card fee) from STN it is still available at £65 incl. everything, so I don't think either BA or VS is going to take the low price crown from Easy.
1400mph From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2013, 223 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13028 times:
It's hard to imagine that the authorities overseeing the decision to make BA hand over slots envisaged the recipient engaging in this kind of practice/behaviour.
Heaven only knows what the Green Party will make of this.
I am baffled as to how an airline can introduce tax only fares into a major global slot restricted hub like LHR ?
AeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 18864 posts, RR: 64 Reply 14, posted (2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 13004 times:
Quoting 1400mph (Reply 13):
It's hard to imagine that the authorities overseeing the decision to make BA hand over slots envisaged the recipient engaging in this kind of practice/behaviour.
If they didn't expect a promotional fare to kick off the service, then they were simply being naïve.
flyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1005 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12900 times:
Quoting GCT64 (Reply 12): "passenger service charges" are classed by BA as "taxes", they cover some of the basic costs of providing their product (fuel and facilities)
Passenger service charges are charged on behalf of the airports they use. The reason it needs to be charged separately is that BA for example will publish a base fare LON-AMS that is valid on LGW-AMS, LCY-AMS and LHR-AMS. The passenger charge is different at each airport. LGW is £11.21, LHR is £28.30 and LCY is a whopping £34.91. BA doesn't keep any of this money, they merely pass through the user charge to the end user.
You can choose which airport to fly from, and pay accordingly. This allows a lot more flexibility in the fare structure than filing a separate fare from each London airport in the GDS. It's cheaper too.
Quoting GCT64 (Reply 12): FYI - I booked yesterday for a flight in two week's time on Easy LTN-EDI-LTN for £75 return including all fees (incl. credit card fee) from STN it is still available at £65 incl. everything, so I don't think either BA or VS is going to take the low price crown from Easy.
You're comparing apples to oranges (no pun intended). The reason that LTN-EDI and STN-EDI are cheaper than LHR-EDI is because their passenger service charges are lower. Unfortunately, I can't find a fare breakdown on easyJet.com, but I found something on Ryanair.com. LTN is £9.34 and STN is £13.68.
You pay extra for the convenience and better facilities of LCY or LHR if you choose to fly from there, regardless of which airline you choose to fly with.
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
flyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1005 posts, RR: 1 Reply 16, posted (2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 12859 times:
Quoting 1400mph (Reply 13): I am baffled as to how an airline can introduce tax only fares into a major global slot restricted hub like LHR ?
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 14): If they didn't expect a promotional fare to kick off the service, then they were simply being naïve.
Exactly. This is a classic loss-leader. Get some buzz, let people know you're out there, maybe get a few of them visiting your website. They might have 5 seats or perhaps even 10 seats per flight at that price, but rest assured it will be a limited number. This is not going to make the difference between success or failure for them. But it does give them free publicity and word-of-mouth, which might translate into bookings at higher fares later on.
I don't expect fares to remain at this level for long.
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
Shame they weren;t offering such competitve fares before Virgin entered the market
Quoting DLD9S (Reply 7):
So that is a £17.00 fare in my book as that goes directly to the carrier's pocket. It might appear as a "tax", but it is not.
And you think that 17 quid actually covers the cost of the fuel? Hardly...
Quoting GCT64 (Reply 12): STN it is still available at £65 incl. everything
Not including a snack, drink or a bag... which BA and VS include in their fares.... so saying they offer 65 incl everything is misleading.
Quoting 1400mph (Reply 13): It's hard to imagine that the authorities overseeing the decision to make BA hand over slots envisaged the recipient engaging in this kind of practice/behaviour.
Why? The competition authorities are thinking of the CONSUMER.... so by offering lower fares they have made the right decision have they not? Get of your BA high horse, have coffee and smell the roses... (on this thread and your other anti VS one). Competiion is a good thing for consumers!
GEN2STEW From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 83 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12728 times:
FABULOUS! A further devaluation of air travel. To all those who will kvetch, piss and moan, etc.. in the future when BA's and other carriers service standards sink to Spirit or Ryan air standards to stay solvent, remember "Little Red Zero" and the like. You are getting exactly what you want an inexpensive ticket at ANY COST. Cheers!
The only things PAX see is the fare thay paid and the seat in front of them. Gotta love the race to the bottom!
GCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1104 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12701 times:
Quoting flyingalex (Reply 15): You're comparing apples to oranges (no pun intended).
Quoting flyingalex (Reply 15): You pay extra for the convenience and better facilities of LCY or LHR
As an 11-year weekly commuter from London to EDI (if I'm not going somewhere else in the world that week), I am fully aware of the relative merits of LTN and LHR (and LGW and STN) (and not everything about LHR is better). I view it as not much different from catching a bus or train and am simply looking for on-time, safe point-point air service at approximately my desired departure time. From the perspective of simply getting from A to B and back to A, comparing VS, BA and Easy's services from London to EDI is like comparing oranges to oranges (pun intended )
(Caveat - I've got a bit of downer on BA at the moment as they managed to cancel both my LHR-EDI and my EDI-LHR flights last week - resulting in an extra night stay in EDI (in a grotty hotel) )
flyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1005 posts, RR: 1 Reply 20, posted (2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 12593 times:
Quoting GCT64 (Reply 19): As an 11-year weekly commuter from London to EDI (if I'm not going somewhere else in the world that week), I am fully aware of the relative merits of LTN and LHR (and LGW and STN) (and not everything about LHR is better). I view it as not much different from catching a bus or train and am simply looking for on-time, safe point-point air service at approximately my desired departure time. From the perspective of simply getting from A to B and back to A, comparing VS, BA and Easy's services from London to EDI is like comparing oranges to oranges (pun intended )
I realise that everyone has different views of what may be convenient. Convenience can vary hugely depending on where in London you live. But LCY and LHR have advantages for the average inbound traveller in that they are linked to the tube, which means it can be really cheap to travel to and from them, whereas STN or LTN usually involve a rail journey and/or coach. But that was not the point of my post.
My point was that the fare difference you cited boils down to the difference in charges at each airport, and that these charges are set by the airports themselves, not the airlines that fly from them. If easyJet flew from Heathrow, I am certain that their fares would be higher by at least that £10-£15 difference as well.
Or in other words, if you have a £0 base fare, how much you effectively pay is at least as much a factor of which airport you choose as which airline you choose.
[Edited 2013-03-18 12:27:13]
Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
YLWbased From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2006, 678 posts, RR: 5 Reply 23, posted (2 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 7766 times:
These kind of fares are pretty common in Asia. Air Asia, Cebu Pacific, Tiger Airways always have $1 fare or free seats, I believe it is great promotion as it only cost the airline so much to create huge marketing impact!
Here are the total cost break down for all my recent flights flown or booked in 2012-2013, you guys will be amazed.
Jan 2012
Hong Kong Airlines
HKG- NRT | Return | Tax-in
HKD$1500 (US$192)
Feb 2012
Cebu Pacific Air
HKG - MNL | Return | Tax-in
HKD$365 (US$45.6)
Mar 2012
Air Asia
HKG-KUL | Return | Tax-in
HKD$668 (US$83.5)
Mar 2012
Air Asia
KUL-RGN | Return | Tax-in
MYR$162 (USD$51)
YLWbased From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2006, 678 posts, RR: 5 Reply 25, posted (2 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7717 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 24): Fare: £5.00
UK Air Passengers Duty: £13.00
UK Passenger Service Charge: £11.21
BA Fuel Surcharge: £18.50
These kind of charges always amazes me. Still remember booking myself on a $1 flight in Canada (no additional fuel surcharge) and my ticket came to $63 after tax...
YLWbased
Hong Kong is not China. Not better or worse, just different.
RyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 2527 posts, RR: 2 Reply 26, posted (2 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 7704 times:
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 24): They're common in the UK/EU as well, even by the likes of British Airways, but that doesn't work for the OP's intents and purposes.
Precisely. If you book some way out, LHR-MAN was routinely about GBP5 + taxes/charges (GBP60-70ish altogether) pre-VS. Not much has really changed, to the point that I'm not sure why this is newsworthy.
As an aside, last week I was looking at LHR-MAN-LHR for December. Guess which airline was cheaper? BA by GBP30 rt.
NorthstarBoy From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1713 posts, RR: 1 Reply 27, posted (2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 6192 times:
Quoting 1400mph (Thread starter): Little Red is introducing tax only fares on LHR-ABZ.
(that doesn't bode well)
BA responds with £1 offer.
Just what the industry needs.
Where will it end ?
When Little Red leaves the market or goes bankrupt?
NW did something similar to F9 a few years ago. F9 tried to start a focus city in Memphis, one of NW's hubs, NW responded by upgrading all of it's Den-Mem flights from CRJs to 2 class A319s and offering 95 dollar first class upgrades at check in. F9 ended up scrapping it's plans for a Memphis focus city and was forced to downgrade their Den-Mem flights first to E170s then cancel the service entirely after which NW went back to flying the trip with 50 seat RJs.
I could have elite status if I wanted it, but flying the same airline all the time is boring.
neutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 351 posts, RR: 0 Reply 29, posted (2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 5466 times:
Quoting YLWbased (Reply 23): These kind of fares are pretty common in Asia. Air Asia, Cebu Pacific, Tiger Airways always have $1 fare or free seats, I believe it is great promotion as it only cost the airline so much to create huge marketing impact!
These LCCs do it regularly throughout the year, the most frequent and lowest fare being CebuPacific which is one Peso or two & a half US cents. My quarterly trips to Manila and/or Clark are booked up to one year in advance and cost about US$70/- all-in for the basic carriage sans meals & baggage.
1400mph From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2013, 223 posts, RR: 0 Reply 31, posted (2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2124 times:
Quoting neutrino (Reply 29): These LCCs do it regularly throughout the year, the most frequent and lowest fare being CebuPacific which is one Peso or two & a half US cents. My quarterly trips to Manila and/or Clark are booked up to one year in advance and cost about US$70/- all-in for the basic carriage sans meals & baggage.
Not really interested in what the LCC's do because they're not operating into a restricted global hub like LHR. For good or for bad there are reasons why not a single LCC operates into LHR. Those slots could be put to far better use than this.
IAG was forced to hand over slots in order to purchase BD. Granted they benefitted but BD was not free and came with heavy losses and alot of work to be done. (many jobs were also salvaged) If VS cannot fill these flights through genuine even reasonable demand when they are very much a novelty it doesn't bode well for the future.
IAG were actually a bit slow on this one. LH were so desperate to sell BD that IAG should have included a caveat in the purchase agreement that any surrendered LHR slots as a result of the purchase should come from LH.
Bongodog1964 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2006, 3019 posts, RR: 2 Reply 32, posted (2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 1703 times:
Quoting 1400mph (Reply 31): IAG were actually a bit slow on this one. LH were so desperate to sell BD that IAG should have included a caveat in the purchase agreement that any surrendered LHR slots as a result of the purchase should come from LH.
The deal didn't go through (it couldn't) until the competition commission ruled what the terms were including slot surrender. IAG knew exactly what they were buying. If they wanted extra slots from LH they would have needed to pay a lot more money.
Quoting 1400mph (Reply 31): IAG was forced to hand over slots in order to purchase BD. Granted they benefitted but BD was not free and came with heavy losses and alot of work to be done. (many jobs were also salvaged) If VS cannot fill these flights through genuine even reasonable demand when they are very much a novelty it doesn't bode well for the future.
Its early days yet, VS will go from no seats on these routes now to full operations in less than 2 weeks time. Somehow they need to get passengers on to their planes. The problem comes if they still have to more or less give seats away in 12 months time.
neutrino From Singapore, joined May 2012, 351 posts, RR: 0 Reply 33, posted (2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 1364 times:
Quoting 1400mph (Reply 31): Not really interested in what the LCC's do because they're not operating into a restricted global hub like LHR. For good or for bad there are reasons why not a single LCC operates into LHR. Those slots could be put to far better use than this.
I understand your point since LCCs does not affect you much if at all from where you are.
For us, it does a lot. Different parts of the world benefit differently from the downhill slide in fares. Anyway since LCCs do not arouse your interest, for the legacies of PR & SQ, their current return Manila prices are now about US200/- to US$220/- as opposed to US$400/- to US$600/- in 1979. Apples to apples, its still a very sizable drop from their price levels of 34 years ago.
1400mph From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2013, 223 posts, RR: 0 Reply 34, posted (2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 1200 times:
Quoting neutrino (Reply 33): I understand your point since LCCs does not affect you much if at all from where you are.
For us, it does a lot. Different parts of the world benefit differently from the downhill slide in fares. Anyway since LCCs do not arouse your interest, for the legacies of PR & SQ, their current return Manila prices are now about US200/- to US$220/- as opposed to US$400/- to US$600/- in 1979. Apples to apples, its still a very sizable drop from their price levels of 34 years ago.
LCC's are fine. You have to remember though that in the UK many peoples perception of an LCC (including mine ) is FR.
Even then it's not so much the quality of the airline but the style engaged by its management. It just turns me right off ! For me personally I love to travel long-haul for leisure and my job does not necessitate domestic or short-haul flying. If it did I'm sure I would use LCC's instead of and aswell as legacies if they proved more beneficial in any particular scenario.
I have flown many times between Los Angeles and Vegas on Southwest without even a backward glance at the legacies but somehow that seems different. FR are just so...I don't know.....intimidating in their approach.
I wouldn't class Easyjet as a LCC anymore but their livery puts me off. That shade of orange. Arrghh. How ridiculous is that I know but we can't help who we are.
GCT64 From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2007, 1104 posts, RR: 1 Reply 35, posted (2 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 898 times:
Quoting 1400mph (Reply 31): For good or for bad there are reasons why not a single LCC operates into LHR
VY does operate into LHR and they are definitely an LCC.
4U operates into LHR and they might or might not be an LCC depending on your definition.
Couldn't think of any more off the top of my head.
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