redzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 276 posts, RR: 0 Reply 1, posted (2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 6007 times:
Two DL hubs in each "best" list, and four UA hubs in each "worst" list (also a new DL hub -- LGA -- in the worst list for arrivals). Does this speak to the different scheduling practices at each carrier? That is, does DL build more wiggle room into their schedules? Or does it speak to other factors, like airspace congestion, weather conditions, etc?
EricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1454 posts, RR: 1 Reply 2, posted (2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5966 times:
Several items to note:
1. On time performance is up across the board.
2. MDW is #9 for on time arrival, but #27 for departures.
3. Most notable are the number of UA hub airports that are on the bottom of the list. Is this due to UA not padding schedules as much as other carriers or merger integration issues? I realize some of UA's hubs suffer from weather (SFO) or congestion (EWR), but I am surprised to see IAH so low. It is also interesting to note LAX, which is not as heavily dominated by UA, has much better on time performance.
Cubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 21244 posts, RR: 19 Reply 3, posted (2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5909 times:
Quoting EricR (Reply 2): I realize some of UA's hubs suffer from weather (SFO) or congestion (EWR), but I am surprised to see IAH so low
It seems to me that IAH had a lot more foul weather during the summer of 2012 than is typical (or maybe I was just unlucky). Maybe one of our Houston locals can confirm my suspicions.
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kordcj From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 74 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (2 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5823 times:
I wonder why ORD is consistently at the bottom. Flight ops are down significantly from its peak, and even with 9L-27R online, it seems like there was really no improvement in the performance of the airfield overall. Maybe 10R-28L will bring a positive change.
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HPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 3664 posts, RR: 8 Reply 7, posted (2 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5572 times:
Quoting kordcj (Reply 6): I wonder why ORD is consistently at the bottom. Flight ops are down significantly from its peak, and even with 9L-27R online, it seems like there was really no improvement in the performance of the airfield overall. Maybe 10R-28L will bring a positive change.
Even with flight ops down, bad weather will always create delays and ORD often suffers miserable winter weather not to mention the occasional summer storm. Deicing is generally necessary in winter and almost always dings against on-time departures. MDW also seems to suffer this departure delay issue.
IAHFLYR From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 4723 posts, RR: 25 Reply 8, posted (2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5511 times:
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 3): It seems to me that IAH had a lot more foul weather during the summer of 2012 than is typical (or maybe I was just unlucky)
IAH did have to deal with weather issues in 2012, but nothing that I remember that was abnormal from most other summers. IAH is set up to run a large number of arrivals/departures however; the airport has to be managed in such a way that during departure back that overlap into arrivals landing west either 26L or 26R must be utilized for both arrivals and departures.
The normal operation they use is to segregate the departures from arrivals by departing the 15's or 33's and landing west, or landing east using 8L/R for arrivals and the 15's and 9 for departures. Runway 9 should be used for both landing and departure, but then you back up the 15's while the 9 lander is overlying the centerlines of the 15's.
Quoting EricR (Reply 2): but I am surprised to see IAH so low.
It never used to be even close to being ranked so low!
Any views shared are strictly my own and do not a represent those of any former employer.
dalca From Netherlands, joined Aug 2006, 455 posts, RR: 0 Reply 9, posted (2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5475 times:
PHL is doing quite a nice job of climbing in those rankings, especially on the departures side. Anybody have any ideas where this improvement has come from?
US Airways have their 3 main hubs all in the top 10, not too bad. It will probably be the last time in the coming years with the merger of US and AA.
I am suprised to see DFW so low. I would have thought with their ample runway layout they could achieve higher.
Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight: AMS-FRA-SIN-FRA-AMS
FlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 6520 posts, RR: 11 Reply 10, posted (2 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 5412 times:
Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 1): That is, does DL build more wiggle room into their schedules?
Most certainly. I use to catch Delta's 10am LGA-ATL a lot. We would close out on time and push back from te gate within minutes of 1000 but still won't be rolling on T/O until about 1030 or 1040 due to the taxi time and traffic.
Look at today's DL 1847. Out the gate a 0957 (scheduled for 10) but had an off time of 1044. It still made it to ATL on time though. Major padding out of LGA and JFK.
CAM2:"Lightning coming out of that one." CAM1: "What?"
COflyerBOS From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 289 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5309 times:
We had very few thunderstorms here in Houston last year. IAH has been in a prolonged drought. We're heading back into another long, dry summer it seems as today hit 90 without no cloud in sight!
The departure delays at IAH in 2012 were caused by something other than thunderstorms...
dartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 637 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (2 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 5203 times:
This is an airport thing far more than an airline one. All airlines pad as best they can, trying to optimize efficiency of their fleet and passenger connectivity. While some may do more so than others, the different is overwhelmed by airport factors by far.
Alias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2644 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5152 times:
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 5): LAX has always fared well in national ontime rankings.
The airport has ample capacity with its 4 simultaneous runways and favorable weather.
Really any loss of points are due to airlines themselves, not the facility.
You are correct about runway capacity and weather, but the facility is sometimes responsible for late arrivals. It isn't uncommon at LAX to wait several minutes for an alleyway to clear before you can taxi in to the gate. Then you have some gates that are tow in only gates because the alleyway is so tight. Don't get me wrong, LAX is overall a very good set up, and in my opinion the easiest major hub airport to operate at from a pilot standpoint, but there are indeed times that airlines take delays due to the facility.
It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
This is an airport thing far more than an airline one. All airlines pad as best they can, trying to optimize efficiency of their fleet and passenger connectivity. While some may do more so than others, the different is overwhelmed by airport factors by far..
I think that largely depends on how much of the airport is controlled by the hub carrier. If 70% of an airport's ops are controlled by one carrier, then that airline's ops can have a heavy influence on the airport's total numbers.
With that said, I think there are 4 main factors that will affect the numbers: congestion in the air space surrounding the airport (ie. northeast corridor), weather, airport specific operations, hub carrier's operations (padding schedules).
United787 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2346 posts, RR: 1 Reply 15, posted (2 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 5089 times:
Quoting HPRamper (Reply 7): Even with flight ops down, bad weather will always create delays and ORD often suffers miserable winter weather not to mention the occasional summer storm. Deicing is generally necessary in winter and almost always dings against on-time departures. MDW also seems to suffer this departure delay issue.
Then why did MSP do so well...they get more snow than we do in Chicago?
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6874 posts, RR: 29 Reply 16, posted (2 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5034 times:
Quoting United787 (Reply 15): Then why did MSP do so well...they get more snow than we do in Chicago?
2012 was somewhat of an abnormal year with weather. Then again most years are one extreme or the other.
MSP had an extremely mild winter 2011-2012. There was very little snow last winter. March 2012 saw a 3 week string of 70-80 degree days in the Upper Midwest and shattered all kinds of records. MSP likely scored so high since the winter was non-existant, and they also generally don't get as many thunderstorms as parts farther south.
ORD by nature is generally good, but when hit with a stationary or slow-moving line of thunderstorms will grind to a halt. There were a few occasions where this did happen last summer. ORD is so massive in scale its no wonder it falls more middle-of-the-road. The delays at ORD are way down from years past. You also have a lot of volume from ORD headed into congested and delay-prone East Coast airports.
ORDTLV2414 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 33 posts, RR: 0 Reply 17, posted (2 months 6 days ago) and read 4573 times:
this isnt really fair because you have cities like Chicago, where weather can shut down the airport for days, compared with DFW which has a pretty temperate climate. just saying.
iFlyLOTs From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 381 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 months 6 days ago) and read 4455 times:
Quoting EricR (Reply 2): 2. MDW is #9 for on time arrival, but #27 for departures.
At school one of my teachers is a tower controller at MDW and according to them they take great pride in being able to keep as many arrivals on time as possible, and he blames the city mostly for the departures.
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22058 posts, RR: 51 Reply 20, posted (2 months 6 days ago) and read 4339 times:
Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 17): this isnt really fair because you have cities like Chicago, where weather can shut down the airport for days, compared with DFW which has a pretty temperate climate. just saying.
If the airport is closed, and flights don't operate, so they don't count for the stats.
Also a place like DFW and Northern TX in spring and summer gets pummeled by thunderstorms both around the field and in the distance that create all types of ATC difficulties and delays. So place like DFW is not a cake walk either.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
PSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 6874 posts, RR: 29 Reply 21, posted (2 months 6 days ago) and read 4339 times:
Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 17): this isnt really fair because you have cities like Chicago, where weather can shut down the airport for days, compared with DFW which has a pretty temperate climate. just saying.
When was the last time ORD was shut down for "days"? Maybe a day. I can think of times like during the 2011 Super Bowl when DFW was crippled pretty bad with snow/ice.
FlyFree27 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 8 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4215 times:
It has nothing to do with the airlines themselves...for the most part. I worked for CO and then UA after the merger process for a while. You have to take in to account the amount of congestion at these airports on a good day. Throw in the slightest amount of weather even if its only for a period of 30 minutes, and the blank hits the fan. I wont even go into the complexity behind EWR, JFK and LGA airspace issues on a clear skies day haha. 99% of the time mother nature is to blame.
aklrno From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 694 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4135 times:
The raw on-time statistics leave out one important thing: late by how much?
If LAX has an on-time arrival record of about 80%, and SFO is about 70%, it looks like a small difference. But at LAX the delay may be 10-15 minutes caused by ground traffic, but sometimes SFO can be measured in hours caused by gate holds due to weather.
cle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1017 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 months 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4039 times:
Where is CLE?..with well over 200 daily departures we should make the list
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
25 SurfandSnow: Well, this: seems like the airport to use, while this: seems like the airport to avoid. I don't think many of us find this at all surprising. In terms
26 Jpax: Proud to call EWR my domicile. I love her through all her faults.
27 SJUSXM: I think there is a lot more airline fault to blame here, especially with the special circumstances of this year. We had the UA integration issues whic
28 bobloblaw: You make a good point. Since US airports are hub dominated by one carrier, is chronic lateness a function of the carrier or the airport. IAH and IAD
29 PSU.DTW.SCE: I really think you can explain some of it on weather. Airports like MSP, DTW, and even ATL are much higher in 2012 than 2011 simply because of the lac
30 IAHFLYR: I'd love to know your theory and see if it's the same as mine!!!! At times yes, but it wasn't enough to most importantly ride the Texas coast of the
31 jayunited: I can't speak about other airports but I can speak about ORD. Here at ORD runway construction is not complete and we are still using runways that inte
32 phlwok: My guess is a combination of a number of reasons: - Lack of snow in 2012, especially compared to 2011 and several preceding years, where snowfall was
33 TakeOff: I'm surprised HNL didn't make either list. Or is it too small an airport to be on them? TakeOff
34 MountainFlyer: As was mentioned, winter was pretty mild for 2011-2012, but even still, from what I understand MSP is world renowned for their ability to deal with s
35 PHX787: MSP. My favorite airport to connect in for DL. Love the airport, love the people, love the smooth connections. This on-time statistic is pretty much
36 ANITIX87: Am I the only one who thinks it's utterly assinine to rate airports by ARRIVAL on-time performance????? This has more to do with delays at the origina
37 point2point: I've been sorta waiting for someone to state this........ I too have to wonder what these rankings of airports by arrivals and departures show, and d
38 IAHFLYR: It was eluded to in reply 30, but guess not specifically spelled out as such. And to carry it one step further, arrival delays do contribute to depar
39 point2point: Thank you..... didn't even know it until you posted it. Shows how much I pay attention to myself here, eh?
40 zippyjet: How does MSP do it? They too have winter weather issues. What's their secret? DL is a hub taking over the old NW flights. I can't access the list from
41 PSU.DTW.SCE: Again Winter 2011-2012 was the winter that did not exist. Even so, MSP has excellent snow removal and DL runs a very efficient de-icing operation. The
42 zippyjet: Makes sense. On a humorous note: Airport was filmed at MSP and the movie featured an epic blizzard. I forgot to mention that I'll go out on a limb an
43 IAHFLYR: I hope it's a very strong limb or that it's not too high from the ground!!!! The ranking list of for "Major Airports" of which DAL is not considered
44 N62NA: Which is why EWR is always among the worst, thanks to UA (CO).
45 IAHFLYR: Just to be clear, in less than the favorable conditions you didn't mean that LAX could land on all 4 simultaneously?
46 jayunited: How many flights (arrivals and departures) per hour does MSP have when compared to DTW and ORD? Does MSP have and use intersecting runways for both a
47 N62NA: UA (and only UA) overschedules EWR beyond the airport's capacity.
48 zippyjet: Some airports like those in the Northeast are in Murphy's Law land. A combination of ATC congestion/delays and precarious weather almost ensure LGA, J
49 LAXintl: Regardless of weather LAX maintains 4 runways operational. SOP is for 2 inboards for departures, and 2 outboards for landings. Visual approaches can
50 IAHFLYR: My question was simply to verify that when the smog, fog or low ceilings are in place they can't do visuals (plane to plane) they simultaneously land
51 PHX787: MSP runs their operations much like Moscow in the dead of winter, or other wintery airports- they anticipate, they go out when they need to and they m
52 SYfan100: MSP may not be the size of ORD or some of the really bigger Airports. But they are the very best with keeping that Airport running even while it's sno
53 point2point: One has to wonder how much the current layout of an airport, and its pax capacity for that layout, and then how much pax it actually handles, has eff
54 kordcj: It always seems that the midwestern airports are far more efficient at getting/keeping their runways clear and remaining open over their eastern coun
55 N62NA: I don't think so. In the case of EWR, it's infested with RJs. So the airport might be able to handle 40M pax per year (just making the number up to i
56 IAHFLYR: Yep, the DOT stats are aircraft numbers only and one of those 50 seat birds count the same as an A388.
57 point2point: Okay, then if an airport is designed to handle X-amount of arrivals and departures (doesn't matter the type of aircraft arriving and departing... yes
58 rwy04lga: I suppose it's because EWR is the only NY area 'All-purpose airport'. EWR handles both domestic and international operations, LGA handles only domest
59 N62NA: Correct. UA overschedules at EWR and is the reason why EWR consistently ranks so low.
60 Cubsrule: How can any airline overschedule a slot controlled airport?
61 IAHFLYR: A flight delay is a when an airline flight takes off and/or lands later than its scheduled time. The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) considers
62 legacyins: There is a ground stoppage atLAX at this time. Anyone know why?
63 LAXintl: Grass mowing, vegetation control removal. Only covers flights in ZLA, ZOA and ZAB airspace.
64 aerowrench: Deicing will affect arrival performance since out times are determined by the closure of the MCD.
65 point2point: Yes, that I understand and we can only agree here. Questions as to maybe why individual airports perform as to this measure are what is being discuss
66 N62NA: When you have a miserable on time percentage and you are responsible for the vast majority of the traffic at a slot controlled airport.
67 IAHFLYR: I believe some of the reasons have been brought forward in earlier posts in the thread. Yes there are some that are related to how an airport is oper
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