KarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 1790 posts, RR: 6 Posted (2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 19215 times:
"KLM Royal Dutch Airlines today presented its new World Business Class (WBC) cabin interior, featuring the new full-flat seat. KLM aims to accentuate the at-home feeling for Business Class customers and that calls for a new cabin interior. In this way, KLM is responding to its customers’ needs and wishes."
First up for redecoration are KLM’s fleet of 22 Boeing 747-400s. The number of seats in World Business Class will be reduced from 42 to 35 aboard the Boeing 747-400. KLM has chosen the Diamond Seat manufactured by B/E Aerospace.
FriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4007 posts, RR: 6 Reply 4, posted (2 months 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 18782 times:
I'm kind of surprised they'd go with the current generation of seats, versus something like AA is putting in the 773ERs, with aisle access from every business seat.
Bad move in my opinion, this was an opportunity to leap frog the competition instead of just catching up.
azjubilee From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 3555 posts, RR: 30 Reply 6, posted (2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 18490 times:
I think it looks great, the added aubergine and brown are a nice complement to the traditional KLM blue. I am a little disappointed that they didn't go with aisle access for all pax. Mentioned earlier that KLM isn't looking to be a trend setter... well, this trend has already be set. Their very close partner DL, for example is well under way in providing aisle access to every customer in business class.
alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4658 posts, RR: 45 Reply 8, posted (2 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 18300 times:
A nice addition/change to the KLM WBC product compared to the mix of old-generation (A332/77E) and AF's NEV3 (77W/A333) seat currently in use.
Not surprisingly they didn't go all-aisle access given the potential reduction in seat-count that would be required (in fact they're already reducing the ratio).
KL is a people hauler. A mid-tier airline that likes to stay on trend, but not ahead of it.
AF is the AFKL group premium airline and AF's new seats will be announced soon for both Affaires and La Premiere. Both will offer full-flat, all pax aisle access.
krisyyz From Canada, joined Nov 2004, 1575 posts, RR: 0 Reply 11, posted (2 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 17918 times:
Very nice! I recently flew WBC on KL and while the seats were comfortable, they did seem a bit dated and the recline setting did feel a bit awkward. I'm not surprised at the reduction of WBC seats, the flight I was on (AMS-YYZ) saw numerous economy passengers, including myself , upgraded to WBC as that class wasn't nearly full, yet numerous economy passengers were on stand-by for the flight.
joost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3128 posts, RR: 4 Reply 12, posted (2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16615 times:
Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 5):
I'm kind of surprised they'd go with the current generation of seats, versus something like AA is putting in the 773ERs, with aisle access from every business seat.
The reason is simple: the 747 and it's unique cabin floor plan (upper deck) make that some modern seats cannot be placed economically.
The B/E Diamond enables for 20 seats in the upper deck (and 15 in the nose section).
The reverse herringbone (JPA / Weber Cirrus), in the DL 747 configuration, only seats 14 pax in the upper deck (and 14 in the nose section). That's a 7 seat difference.
The Reverse Herringbone is very nice for the 777 and A330, and it's also good for the 747 main deck, but it's doesn't fit well in single-aisle configurations.
The traditional (Virgin, AC, CX old config) herringbone does have an efficient floor plan (CX: 22 in the upper deck) for the 747, but has mixed reviews: some love it, some hate it.
LH also used the B/E Diamond for new business class, also for 2-2 on the upper deck.
DL will use the B/E Diamond on it's TATL/Transcon 757s, in a 2-2 configuration also.
Indeed, the config lacks direct aisle access for non-window seats, but I really like the overall view (colors, etc).
AA777223 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1112 posts, RR: 7 Reply 13, posted (2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16458 times:
Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 9): AF is the AFKL group premium airline and AF's new seats will be announced soon for both Affaires and La Premiere. Both will offer full-flat, all pax aisle access.
My goodness! That is a sad state of affairs. If AF is the "premium" airline, they desperately need to step up their game. Angled lie-flats, 10 abreast Y in 777s and dirty planes hardly scream premium.
330lover From Belgium, joined Jul 2008, 504 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (2 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16371 times:
Don't like the very light blue of the 'shells'.
It reminds me of the 'toothpaste' colour of AC. While I think it looks nice as a livery, it does not as interior colour.
Or is it just me, am I seeing colours wrongly?
Britten Norman Islander VP-FBR on Falkland Islands. THAT'S FLYING!
ardian From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 516 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (2 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 15642 times:
For people who are wondering how much you CAN design with a new C-class cabin, since you're pretty restricted inside an airplance cabin and KLM already decided they'd choose the Diamond B/E Aerospace seat), here is an Interview from New York Times with designer Hella Jongerius. I really like how KLM is very proactive in using Dutch designers to enhance their product (Marcel Wanders for the dinner service, Blond Amsterdam for other catering packaging, photographer Carli Hermés for KLM's inflight boutique).
Great job by Hella Jongerius and her team. I really like the color palette and chosen materials. It suits KLM perfectly; no radical design change as if they are trying to be a next SQ, LH, BA or EY. They know they aren't the leader of the pack and instead they are just consistantly doing in what is right for them. They have a solid soft product and now they can match that with this better and improved C-class. Indeed no direct aisle access; next to what Joost in reply #13 already mentioned, KLM's C-class in their 744's is only situated in the A-section and upperdeck. That gives it less (and a smaller) space to work with.
factsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 322 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14574 times:
Quoting 76er (Reply 6): Company policy. A few years ago KL upper management decided it would be better for KL to be a 'smart follower' instead of a trendsetter.
Well, perhaps KLM is a trendsetter.... but not in cabin fittings & trimmings, but in a very different field....like the sustainability of aviation.
See this quote taken from Flight Global.
'The cooking oil biofuel KLM is burning is "very energetic" and flies better than kerosene, KLM Director Eurlings says, but what really counts is that "this step shows that KLM is a frontrunner in making air transportation more sustainable".
alitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4658 posts, RR: 45 Reply 20, posted (2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 14259 times:
Quoting AA777223 (Reply 14): My goodness! That is a sad state of affairs. If AF is the "premium" airline, they desperately need to step up their game. Angled lie-flats, 10 abreast Y in 777s and dirty planes hardly scream premium
AF is changing. Expect an announcement very soon for the refit of Affaires (full flat, full access, full privacy).
La Premier is also being redesigned to bring the on-the-ground experience at CDG to the air with a customized version of a new suite seat.
As for Y, you get what you pay for.
Not sure when you last flew AF, but the planes on the inside don't match the dirt on the outside. All of my flights in the last few years have been spotless with service that was better than anything I've gotten in the states and far better than the -223 airline offers!
I last flew AF a few years ago & both the soft & hard product were not great (in my opinion) As I live in the north of England most of the choice I have for flying to the East is with KLM & AF, (now the same company) & both can be very expensive.
I have found the regional product very good but the long haul very hit & miss, however I will be once again flying AF in about 8 hours from the North East of England to Japan (it is a codeshare with JAL) with the long haul with JAL.
I have to admit I did get a very good price so we will see what they are like now
usdcaguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 756 posts, RR: 2 Reply 23, posted (2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13620 times:
I have flown the new KL WBC with flat beds and absolutely loved it. The staff were very professional, and the seat was much more comfortable than some other lie-flats. KL seems more than a people-hauler to me; they are very nice on regional services and really make an effort to deliver a consistent long-haul product. If I paid for my own business class tickets, I would likely use them on a regular basis.
panamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4587 posts, RR: 26 Reply 24, posted (2 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 13688 times:
Quoting alitalia744 (Reply 21): Not sure when you last flew AF, but the planes on the inside don't match the dirt on the outside. All of my flights in the last few years have been spotless
Not for me...been on a few AF 77W and 332s in the last six months in J, and the seats/surrounding areas were definitely not spotless. Some parts of the seats/fittings were also quite run down...
And the AF CDG operation, even though improved from a few years ago, continues to be a cumbersome, frustrating, and illogical experience, even for someone like myself who is forced to go through CDG quite a bit...
25 panamair: Not sure that is possible since KLM hasn't installed a single flat-bed yet
26 Viscount724: . Very low demand to/from AMS. Dutch companies are quite strict at avoiding extravagance and needless expense. F class cabins were often close to emp
28 PC12Fan: That's smart IMO. Trying to be the innovator in this business can bite you in the you know what. Following what works with a slight "rebranding" does
29 Hooverman: That's fine but they should be a bit quicker to follow in the future I think the design of the cabin is pretty nice though. The blue is not overwhelm
30 PH-BFA: Interesting statement made by Erik Varwijk (KLM); the 787 and A350 will have a different, newer generation business class seat which will be developed
31 motorhussy: Taken them a long time to come up to the standard of most of their competitors and peers but good on them, looks great. I'd not have flown their forme
32 Azure: Although I do like KLM for their no frill, efficient product, and as a FF on both AF and KL, I have to disagree with you : AF is defintely more premi
33 AF185: In addtion to that, AF has reveiled its new Business Class seat in last January (retrofit to start in 2014). They have selected the Zodiac Sicma Cirr
34 klkla: While you are certainly entitled to your opinion, not everyone feels the same way. I have gone out of my way to avoid AirFrance even though it has be
35 TheAviator380: Too dull to me ! I love to see bright colours (Thai or Kingfisher) or light colours (LH/EK) in any cabin. This is neither of it.
36 AA777223: I admittedly haven't flown AF in several years. I have spent quite a bit of time in France over the years, and certainly plenty of time at CDG. I agr
37 Jano: Between AF and DL for a Y flyer I have to agree with you. DL is the better one. I'll be doing my 86th TATL crossing in May.
38 chuchoteur: ...you have to be kidding, right? At CDG the sterile transit areas are a nightmare, if you have a one hour connection you have to run for miles. The
39 777way: Agree, the only blue I like are the shades of sea near tropical beaches, or swimming pools that too a tad greenish, not a big fan of the lighter blue
40 janbrubel: Finally! Looking quite nice. Welcome to the 21st century, KL.
41 anstar: But that is not KL's business model... they are a hub carrier with a small local market. So by default they already need to charge cheaper fares to a
42 toobz: I will take KL and AMS over AF and CDG any day!!! This is such an upgrade to the former J seats.
43 AirAfreak: Not all Diamond Seats look alike... Here is a quote from Business Traveler Online: “It is true that other airlines have the Diamond seat, but our n
45 Glareskin: I agree with above statements. However the light color makes the cabin very open. Maybe a print on the light blue would work. But it is about time th
46 76er: The project will be completed by 2015. The T7's are schedelud to be modified after the 747's and the 330's last. As was mentioned before, the 789's t
47 rwy04lga: KL upgrades employees (ala DL)? Please tell me 'yes'! KL not a 'trendsetter'? Sure they are....they started the 'sustainable' airline trend way back
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