tropical From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 81 posts, RR: 0 Reply 3, posted (2 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 14634 times:
Quoting liverpoola380 (Reply 1): Does anybody know if this has ever kicked in with an in service A380 as of yet?
Not exactly what you had asked, but According to the Airbus press release:
"ROPS was first approved by the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) on the A380 in October 2009 and to date is currently in service or ordered on around 70 per cent of the A380 fleet."
I'd be interested to know which A380 operators have acquired it...
Unflug From Germany, joined Jan 2012, 188 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (2 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 14184 times:
Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 2): It might have on the 2nd of March when the A380 lost its steering at MAN, but im not entirely sure...
I don't think that the system would help much if the steering is lost on the ground. The main goal seems to be to help to make the right decisions on approach:
The Airbus-patented ROPS computes minimum realistic in-flight landing and on-ground stopping distances while comparing them to available landing distances in real time. The analyses take into account factors such as runway topography, runway condition, aircraft weight and configuration, wind and temperature. The resulting outcome produces audio callouts and alerts for pilots, making ROPS an awareness tool to assist the crew in the go-around decision making process and also the timely application of retardation/stopping means on touchdown.
Anybody know what happened to the A380's Steering?? We've had that happen on the A320 with the loss of the 24GA and 25GA nose landing gear sensors. That's a bad thing to happen to an airplane that Big. Seems to me the BSCU's Might have been put on separate channels as backup Fail Safe .
817Dreamliiner From Montserrat, joined Jul 2008, 1404 posts, RR: 1 Reply 6, posted (2 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 13820 times:
Quoting Unflug (Reply 4): I don't think that the system would help much if the steering is lost on the ground. The main goal seems to be to help to make the right decisions on approach:
Well, the incident im talking about happened during landing, which is why I thought it was relevant...
Blast Reality, Burst it into shreds! Banishment, This World!
SYfan100 From United States of America, joined May 2008, 587 posts, RR: 0 Reply 8, posted (2 months 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 9399 times:
Many runways now including I still think MSP has one where the end of it almost turns to sand if a plane is landing and runs into problems.
Someone can correct me if I am wrong but I believe this design was to help protect where you don't have a plane leaving the Airport area if it's sliding around.
Now you have something within the Airplane that helps as well in which safety is always the #1 item for everyone because you don't want to conduct a family and tell them the sad news about a death because of a Airplane accident.
Everyday you would prefer whoever no matter if it's a employee or a passenger to get home safely to their respective family even if they are not married.
Most still have a Mom and Dad living besides either a sister or brother in which how would you like to get the news that your son or daughter didn't make it back home to their apartment or house alive because of a accident?
Technology has come along ways in which at the sametime though I take a look at past Airplane accidents or incidents on a runway in which those, have helped with all of us coming along the way as well for understanding more of what happened and what can be prevented? And even what can we just not prevent because mother nature might have the final say?
Look at this as another tool for helping those fly the planes so things are safe.
When ROW/ROP gives you those stopping point designators for your top of descent briefing, it assumes you will fly a standard profile at standard reference speeds, crossing the threshold at 50ft and putting the beast down in the touchdown zone. But it still works if you don't do any of those.
If you are high and fast on approach, ROW/ROP knows, and the stopping point designators move away from you down the runway. If you then carry out an extended flare as well, they may move beyond the runway end and, if they do, you will get two warnings: one scripted on the primary flight display saying "runway too short", and a recorded voice saying the same words.
What I tell you now is not strictly relevant, but I was struck by it just the same: the voice that tells you "Runway too short" (or alternatively "If wet, runway too short), is highly compelling because it's different: it's not one of those dead-pan, mid-tone, American-accented voices. It's a male voice, but pitched-up, and with an exquisitely English English accent. Your invisible guardian sounds as if he is looking over your shoulder and is genuinely worried about what he sees.
It would make anyone go-around.
But if you elect not to go around, when you touch down the system gives you absolutely maximum braking for the conditions.
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2767 posts, RR: 7 Reply 11, posted (2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7595 times:
Quoting SYfan100 (Reply 9): Many runways now including I still think MSP has one where the end of it almost turns to sand if a plane is landing and runs into problems.
Yup, Runway Arresting Beds are installed in A LOT of airports now to ensure that the 1000' safety buffer is there:
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8740 posts, RR: 52 Reply 12, posted (2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7408 times:
It sounds like a good investment. One event like the one in Jamaica where the AA 737 ran off the runway a few years ago will pay for the implementation and training of this system on the fleet.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
web500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 588 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (2 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 7045 times:
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 13): It sounds like a good investment. One event like the one in Jamaica where the AA 737 ran off the runway a few years ago will pay for the implementation and training of this system on the fleet.
it would have saved at least one SW737 and AF358... an amazing action to allow this safety improving technology to be used by other manufacturers...kudos to airbus.
kanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2467 posts, RR: 21 Reply 14, posted (2 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 6136 times:
AS ice, snow, and water accumulations are the most frequently sighted causes, beyond avoiding wildlife intrusions and blown tires, I really wonder how much this will help versus providing a false sense of security.
There's a lot of problems with moisture in the steering sensors on the A380, get a big enough difference between the two resolver outputs and the system fails.
Differential braking is still avail but usually results in needing a tow to stand once stopped.
There are new versions of the sensors but there are still problems with drift.
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 8740 posts, RR: 52 Reply 17, posted (2 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5355 times:
Quoting kanban (Reply 14):
AS ice, snow, and water accumulations are the most frequently sighted causes, beyond avoiding wildlife intrusions and blown tires, I really wonder how much this will help versus providing a false sense of security.
True that it won't solve all problems, AA is sensitive about overruns. They have had a number of such events with prominent events in flights 331 and 2253. There is a good chance that such a system could have prevented the Jamiaca accident since they touched down with a tailwind well beyond the threshold.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
PassedV1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 143 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4387 times:
I'm a little skeptical. If the system works (and by works I mean it cannot give you a false warning to 5 - 9's 99.999)then great. If it gives you a bunch of false-warnings (i'm thinking like most Gear warning horns and the RAAS system) it can not only not-make you more safe, it can actually make you less safe. If I ran the FAA for a day I would rip out the RAAS systems of every airliner that currently uses it.
dynamo12 From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 40 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4157 times:
The key thing is really avoiding false alarms. Having worked in another field entirely false alarms are terrible. I've seen folks turn off major safety systems because they couldn't silence a false alarm.
Once checks have been done and the alarm is clearly false, let us at least silence the damn things! Otherwise you get folks pulling breakers on entire systems so they can think.
Especially for situations where the alarm is unlikely to be true, even a low false alarm rate will totally dominate user experience with the system = disaster.
Unflug From Germany, joined Jan 2012, 188 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2954 times:
Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 18): I'm a little skeptical. If the system works (and by works I mean it cannot give you a false warning to 5 - 9's 99.999)then great. If it gives you a bunch of false-warnings (i'm thinking like most Gear warning horns and the RAAS system) it can not only not-make you more safe, it can actually make you less safe.
If a System doesn't work reliably it is of no use, agreed so far. But there seems to be no indication that this is the case. I would assume that we might have heard of it if this system gave bunches of false-alarms resulting in unnecessary go-arounds, especially since the aircraft in question is the A380.
packsonflight From Iceland, joined Jan 2010, 321 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2583 times:
Quoting PassedV1 (Reply 18): I'm a little skeptical. If the system works (and by works I mean it cannot give you a false warning to 5 - 9's 99.999)then great. If it gives you a bunch of false-warnings (i'm thinking like most Gear warning horns and the RAAS system) it can not only not-make you more safe, it can actually make you less safe. If I ran the FAA for a day I would rip out the RAAS systems of every airliner that currently uses it.
Sounds a little like early opinions of the TCAS system
tropical From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2008, 81 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (2 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 2143 times:
Quoting max550 (Reply 10): What I tell you now is not strictly relevant, but I was struck by it just the same: the voice that tells you "Runway too short" (or alternatively "If wet, runway too short), is highly compelling because it's different: it's not one of those dead-pan, mid-tone, American-accented voices. It's a male voice, but pitched-up, and with an exquisitely English English accent. Your invisible guardian sounds as if he is looking over your shoulder and is genuinely worried about what he sees.
It would make anyone go-around.
Airbus should get Brian Blessed to do the voice warnings. That'd get the pilots' attention.
hivue From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 157 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (2 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 1864 times:
There's an interesting recent thread (can't seem to find it now) regarding extending LHR's runways and allowing take offs and landings simultaneously on the same runway to relieve congestion. A system like this might be important for making such a scheme work.
Quoting pvjin (Reply 20): I think this is a great system, there have been plenty of overruns simply caused by aircraft touching down too late
AB sems to be very proactive at finding solutions to problems.
25 Unflug: This is probably the thread you were thinking of: Ex Concorde Pilot Proposal To Bust LHR Capacity (by Gonzalo Mar 12 2013 in Civil Aviation)
26 PassedV1: RAAS isn't even giving you real warnings, an analogy I heard is it's like having a jumpseater and everytime you are approaching a runway, or while yo
27 pvjin: Well I would imagine that in the future RAAS will be improved and amount of false positives would reduce. After all it's still very new technology in
28 Mir: Not when the false positives he's talking about are built into the system. There are certain useful components of RAAS like the alert that goes off i
29 hivue: I'm confused. Is RAAS only supposed to alert you if you're lining up on the wrong runway (not the one in the FMC) or on a taxiway? If not, then there
30 PassedV1: I mean "false positve" in the sense that a system is squawking at you when nothing is wrong. Limiting the lineup warning to when it's not the FMC pro
31 N766UA: But that's not how it works. It's not like once you're overrunning it can stop you, it's just a tool to help you decide whether or not you're going t
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