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Bizzare Demand By Passenger Delays Saudia Flight  
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 19961 times:

Wanted air hostess and all female passengers removed for being without male guardian, was it a first time thing, what about Saudia of the 70s and 80s with western crew and uniforms?
http://aviationbusinessme.com/airlin...s/2013/mar/14/326156/#.UUHy_6Wdnio

24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 19810 times:

This is really bizarre. I know that the law of Saudi Arabia prevents an unaccompanied Saudi woman travelling overseas without consent, but it is surprising that the issue would be raised on a domestic flight, particularly where airline employees are concerned. In a state like Saudi Arabia I would have thought opinion had been sought from religious experts before allowing the airline to employ women as cabin crew. Would not the OIC be regarded as the "guardian" in this instance?

It is good to read in the report that the Captain had the passenger removed so that the flight could eventually proceed.

Of course to people outside the kingdom the law regarding the approval of a guardian is absurd, but at least it was changed to allow foreign women married to Saudis to travel.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 19716 times:

I dont think SV employ local women as crew, its mostly from south / southeastern Asia and north Africa.

[Edited 2013-03-20 08:23:01]

User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 19348 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 2):
I don't think SV employ local women as crew

This obstacle is common among airlines in the GCC area. You would be hard-pressed to find female crew in several Gulf airlines, although in some states there is no law preventing them from applying and EK even has one or two flight crew who are women. But even if there is an objection to women as crew, regardless of origin, would not the authorities in Saudi Arabia not have passed it by the religious advisers before employing women? I guess they did, otherwise the Captain would not have been able to have the objecting passenger removed.

I feel that men need to ask themselves an important question. What is more important? Do they wish to get to where they need to go or to put obstacles in the way? If Allah is all merciful, then it is up to Allah to decide whether a woman is competent to perform as a member of a team. It is not up to man to judge.


User currently offlinegoosebayguy From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2009, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19139 times:

It is a crazy system but the locals are starting to make advances. They do now have the internet though heavily censored. Most of the youngsters really are not into the religion and they are pushing for change. However in the meantime there are belligerent types who will insist on such things as guardians for women. Its the main reason they are not allowed to drive too. I've had many flights on Saudia when very attractive ladies join the flight at LHR but half an hour before landing they all head to the toilets and put on their abbayas!

User currently onlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3453 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 19000 times:
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In some countries you get drunken passengers delaying a flight, others have there pants way down there waist line, showing too much boobs etc... In Saudi we get some idiots like this guy, he was treated the way others interrupting a flight, call security kick him out of the plane, end of story.


I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offlineRussianJet From Belgium, joined Jul 2007, 7694 posts, RR: 21
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18634 times:
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Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 5):
In some countries you get drunken passengers delaying a flight, others have there pants way down there waist line, showing too much boobs etc... In Saudi we get some idiots like this guy, he was treated the way others interrupting a flight, call security kick him out of the plane, end of story

  
Yup. Just another disruptive passenger booted off a flight.



✈ Every strike of the hammer is a blow against the enemy. ✈
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 18624 times:

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 5):
In Saudi we get some idiots like this guy, he was treated the way others interrupting a flight,

This supports my view that in a country where religious views are taken seriously the issue of women serving on flights would obviously have been considered and accepted. The passenger was disruptive and was appropriately removed to ensure the continuance of the flight.

But it can not be denied that in an environment where women are seen as second class citizens (on the mistaken pretext of religion - nowhere does the Qur'an prohibit women from leading productive lives) and where the Government has taken very gradual steps to overcome discrimination, there will be the odd instance where this will happen.


inserted word "have"

[Edited 2013-03-20 11:00:57]

User currently offline1stfl94 From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 1455 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 18274 times:

Surely Saudia has protocols in place to ensure their not in breach of the Islamic law, after all they've been hiring female cabin crew for years?

User currently offlineweb500sjc From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 734 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17949 times:
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I don't know what demand was more outrageous, lack of XL pajamas on QF, or no females on Saudia. ( I realize that the one on Saudia is extremely sexist, but I find holding up a flight so you can get PJs the correct size to be ridiculous.)


I think that if this person felt that there should be no women without a guardian on his flight, he should look into buying a private jet. I hear there is a lovely A380 in Toulouse- it should be enough room to fit his ego.



Boiler Up!
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 17819 times:

Quoting web500sjc (Reply 9):
but I find holding up a flight so you can get PJs the correct size to be ridiculous.)

If this is a reference to QF, the size wasn't the problem. The issue was whether they were PJs for the parvenus in J or for the old money in F. If you have paid for F PJs, you should get them. Basic law of contracts. Trivial maybe, but I suspect the passenger had other reasons for staying and getting someone else to pay. The lack of First Class PJs as opposed to Pleb class was a pretext.

In this instance, the off-loaded misogynist had no similar grounds. Hence he was evicted and no doubt is negotiating what punishment he receives.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17546 times:

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 4):
but half an hour before landing they all head to the toilets and put on their abbayas!

I have travelled SV to from Jeddah and this was never the case, no crew put on abaya pre landing, after landing, after parking, after doors opened after passengers got off, nor were they in abaya at boarding in Jeddah, just the uniform.


User currently onlineSOBHI51 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jun 2003, 3453 posts, RR: 17
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17526 times:
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Quoting 777way (Reply 11):
I have travelled SV to from Jeddah and this was never the case, no crew put on abaya pre landing, after landing, after parking, after doors opened after passengers got off, nor were they in abaya at boarding in Jeddah, just the uniform.

He was talking about female passengers.



I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 17442 times:

ok my bad, on another note do SV still have any western crew pilots or cabin?

User currently offlinekanban From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 3472 posts, RR: 27
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 17138 times:
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Interesting because many of the counties where this might be an issue hire single women from the far east to work for them and do not insist they bring a male relative... perhaps there would be far fewer abuse cases if the all brought a guardian.

User currently offlinestrfyr51 From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 1148 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 14288 times:

Quoting kanban (Reply 14):

That's straight Nut ball!!! If that's Sharia Law?? Then those guys are in REAL trouble !! and I can SEE why the MEA's dislike the West !! But as LONG as they keep it Over there?!? Great!


User currently offlinemozart From Luxembourg, joined Aug 2003, 2168 posts, RR: 13
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 14003 times:

As a matter of fact there are large posters around Qatar advertizing jobs with Qatar Airways for Qatari nationals. This specifically includes women, at least there are picture of women on the posters.

User currently offlinechecksixx From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1088 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 13247 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 3):
You would be hard-pressed to find female crew in several Gulf airlines

I've flown every GCC airline and there has been at least 1 female crew member in every one.


User currently offlineblueflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3965 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12643 times:
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I should note that I do not agree with these restrictions on women's rights, but with that said, within the framework of these restrictions as applied in Saudi Arabia, I do wonder what... loophole evidently exempts flight attendants. Absent that loophole, I find this passenger's position backwards, outdated and yet logical...


I've got $h*t to do
User currently offlineAirstud From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 2651 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 12442 times:

If I were in charge over there, I'd immediately arrange for the women crew and pax to be removed, but by an all-female security team.

Y'know, just to see what he says...



Pancakes are delicious.
User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8675 times:

Quoting checksixx (Reply 17):
I've flown every GCC airline and there has been at least 1 female crew member in every one.

Allow me to clarify: I was referring specifically to women from the relevant country and not expatriates. The comment was in response to 777way's comment about SV possibly not employing local women.


User currently offlinenomadd22 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 1846 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 8483 times:

Seeing how fast the passenger found his butt off the plane, the attendant obviously had a competent guardian. The pilot.


Andy Goetsch
User currently offlinempsrent From Canada, joined Apr 2006, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5649 times:

I'm of the opinion that the pilot serves as the ultimate guardian for all passengers and crew. The pilot demonstrated his "guardian" role by removing the disruptive passenger. Justice was served.

Good thing this happened prior to flight.


User currently offlinefactsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 863 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5332 times:

Well no surprise here........

As part of a global 1990s demonstration tour of a new civil jetliner produced by one of the world's aircraft manufactures, the manufacturer was told that it could not introduce female flight attendants on foreign registered aircraft used for demonstration flights for SAUDIA in the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia.

As this aircraft manufacturer did not employ male cabin attendants, it had to turn to one of its customers to hire some qualified male attendants just for the duration of the flight demonstration in the Kingdom.


User currently offlineklwright69 From Saudi Arabia, joined Jan 2000, 2025 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 22 hours ago) and read 4096 times:

Quoting Quokkas (Reply 1):
This is really bizarre. I know that the law of Saudi Arabia prevents an unaccompanied Saudi woman travelling overseas without consent, but it is surprising that the issue would be raised on a domestic flight, particularly where airline employees are concerned. In a state like Saudi Arabia I would have thought opinion had been sought from religious experts before allowing the airline to employ women as cabin crew. Would not the OIC be regarded as the "guardian" in this instance?

Obviously this point has been decided, this guy is just a lunatic. Women regularly serve as flight attendants in the Kingdom.

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 4):
It is a crazy system but the locals are starting to make advances. They do now have the internet though heavily censored. Most of the youngsters really are not into the religion and they are pushing for change. However in the meantime there are belligerent types who will insist on such things as guardians for women. Its the main reason they are not allowed to drive too. I've had many flights on Saudia when very attractive ladies join the flight at LHR but half an hour before landing they all head to the toilets and put on their abbayas!

Mostly true, except usually the women I see are in abayas before they board they flight. Who wants to do any kind changing in the aircraft lavs? I think on my last BA flight to RUH, the BA flight attendants bring abayas with them to slip on before leaving the airport. The abaya is not sophisticated clothing, you just slip it on over you. At the Sheikh Zayed Mosque in Abu Dhabi, women just slip them on right there in the open before they enter the mosque, it just goes over the clothing.

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 5):
In some countries you get drunken passengers delaying a flight, others have there pants way down there waist line, showing too much boobs etc... In Saudi we get some idiots like this guy, he was treated the way others interrupting a flight, call security kick him out of the plane, end of story.

Absolutely true.

There is no way of knowing what nonsense was going through this guy's mind, unless we speak to him. But this story would only take place in Saudi, coming from one who lives there!

I have seen western north american pilots working for Saudia. I do not know if they have any female pilots. Haven't seen any yet, but there could be, I just don't know. Of course there are female flight attendants.


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