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Lufthansa To Acquire 100% Of Brussels Airlines  
User currently offlineSN535 From Belgium, joined Feb 2005, 35 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 17881 times:

Christoph Franz stated to the German press (Suddeutsche Zeitung) that Lufthansa will excercise its right to acquire the remaining 55% of Brussels Airlines. This right can be excercised every year in april with the deadline in 2017. But the first objective remains to make SN profitable, which shoul be the case in 2014.

Link to the article in a Belgian newspaper, only available in Dutch:

http://www.standaard.be/artikel/deta...spx?artikelid=DMF20130326_00518456

Personally, having worked at Sabena, I have mixed feelings about this. What will become of the airline once they are fully owned by Lufthansa? I'm sure they will keep the brand however, the business strategy and operations will be what the group wants it to be. On the other hand, SN can't survive on its own as a small regional player.
What are your thoughts on this?

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQazar From Canada, joined May 2006, 327 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 17815 times:

This was expected... Over the past few years, LH has either completely absorbed its partial ownership in its airline portfolio (Swiss, Austrian, Germanwings, etc...) or has divested itself completely from them (BMI)... Brussels Airlines and Luxair are the only 2 remaining in the LH portfolio that are not fully owned and quite frankly, had LH not intended to acquire the SN fully, it would have sold its 45% shareholding a longtime ago!

LH management is one of the best in the World and this is excellent news for both SN and LH!!!

Cheers


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1582 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17210 times:

It seems that LH is quietly pursuing a strategy to consolidate European airlines for the purpose of preserving market share and dominance in the region. Different than the process employed by the USA carriers, but the end will no doubt be the same. LH intends on being a survivor it's clear.

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11357 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17181 times:

Today in the news:

- LH to launch a long haul low cost carrier

and

- LH to acquire Brussels Airliners for 100%

Hm   



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineusctrojan18 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 92 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17043 times:

Would love to see more flights from Brussels to the USA. So far SN only serves JFK and IAD, and I would love to see other airports including BOS and ORD. I'm planning a trip to Belgium next year and the more flight options to Brussels, the better.

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11357 posts, RR: 33
Reply 5, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 17002 times:

Quoting SN535 (Thread starter):
only available in Dutch

And in English:

Quote:
German carrier Lufthansa will wait until its minority owned unit Brussels Airlines has turned profitable before acquiring the remaining 55 per cent of the shares, its chief executive told a German newspaper.

"A complete takeover will result when the turnaround is complete and Brussels can firmly stand on its own two legs," Lufthansa CEO Christoph Franz said in an interview with the Sueddeutsche Zeitung published on Monday.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1990 posts, RR: 24
Reply 6, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 16872 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
Hm

I do think there's potential for SN to be an LCC. They'd make a great LCC. And BRU a great low-cost hub.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Indonesia, joined Sep 2000, 4503 posts, RR: 72
Reply 7, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 16555 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 6):
I do think there's potential for SN to be an LCC. They'd make a great LCC. And BRU a great low-cost hub.

The Africa operation is too high yielding for that to happen.


User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 16433 times:

I think it is time for LH to start thinking of a new name for itself and all its subsidiaries. I know it will be something very radical for many Europeans from various nations (Swiss, Austrians, Germans, etc.) but it only makes sense to consolidate under one brand, which shouldn't be nation-specific...

User currently offlinerlwynn From Germany, joined Dec 2000, 1081 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 16367 times:

Quoting VS11 (Reply 8):
but it only makes sense to consolidate under one brand, which shouldn't be nation-specific...

I do not think that makes sense at all.



I can drive faster than you
User currently offlinekordcj From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 96 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 16304 times:

Quoting VS11 (Reply 8):

I think it is time for LH to start thinking of a new name for itself and all its subsidiaries. I know it will be something very radical for many Europeans from various nations (Swiss, Austrians, Germans, etc.) but it only makes sense to consolidate under one brand, which shouldn't be nation-specific...

UNITED - Europe haha



The most obvious proof for intelligent life in the universe is that they haven't tried to contact us.
User currently offlinesmc88 From UK - England, joined Mar 2013, 4 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 16068 times:

I do see this as a good thing for SN but at the same time I can not help but think that the airline will only shrink in size.

User currently offlineBommerJan From UK - England, joined Dec 2005, 54 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15977 times:

Quoting rlwynn (Reply 9):
ut it only makes sense to consolidate under one brand, which shouldn't be nation-specific...

For example "Lufthansa"..... the hansa league was a multinational network, Lufthansa's blue and yellow corporate colors are not specific to any of the nations in their group.

I am sure everyone can live with "Luft"  .


User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15953 times:

Quoting VS11 (Reply 8):

I think it is time for LH to start thinking of a new name for itself and all its subsidiaries. I know it will be something very radical for many Europeans from various nations (Swiss, Austrians, Germans, etc.) but it only makes sense to consolidate under one brand, which shouldn't be nation-specific...

Why? Each individual brand is strong, and are subsidiaries of the Lufthansa Group with some degree of autonomy. One brand would be commercial suicide.

Quoting smc88 (Reply 11):

I do see this as a good thing for SN but at the same time I can not help but think that the airline will only shrink in size.

It's inevitable that the Avro RJ fleet will be retired soon. They have 13 in the fleet and only one A320 on order so in the next few years SN will shrink.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25154 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 15953 times:

Quoting VS11 (Reply 8):
but it only makes sense to consolidate under one brand, which shouldn't be nation-specific...

No it most definitely does not make sense. Countries in Europe are not the same as U.S. states. Residents of each European country have strong brand loyalties to their own airlines and it makes complete sense to capitalize on that.

What you are suggesting is fine for an LCC like Ryanair but for full-service carriers other factors than price are important, especially for high-yield traffic. A carrier like Swiss (and previously Swissair) has spent millions to reinforce their brand image. Losing all of that by changing to some pan-European generic name would mean the loss of all of that investment and would be a very bad idea. One group and multiple brands is the way to go.

[Edited 2013-03-26 17:43:27]

User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15453 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
No it most definitely does not make sense. Countries in Europe are not the same as U.S. states. Residents of each European country have strong brand loyalties to their own airlines and it makes complete sense to capitalize on that.

What you are suggesting is fine for an LCC like Ryanair but for full-service carriers other factors than price are important, especially for high-yield traffic. A carrier like Swiss (and previously Swissair) has spent millions to reinforce their brand image. Losing all of that by changing to some pan-European generic name would mean the loss of all of that investment and would be a very bad idea. One group and multiple brands is the way to go.

The idea is to create a global brand, not a pan-European one. The growth in the global economy is not coming from Europe, neither is it going to come from Europe any time soon. While, indeed, the brands are well-established in Europe, the new brand would be really for markets outside Europe. Just think of Coca-Cola (or any other global brand).


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25154 posts, RR: 22
Reply 16, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15333 times:

Quoting VS11 (Reply 16):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
No it most definitely does not make sense. Countries in Europe are not the same as U.S. states. Residents of each European country have strong brand loyalties to their own airlines and it makes complete sense to capitalize on that.

What you are suggesting is fine for an LCC like Ryanair but for full-service carriers other factors than price are important, especially for high-yield traffic. A carrier like Swiss (and previously Swissair) has spent millions to reinforce their brand image. Losing all of that by changing to some pan-European generic name would mean the loss of all of that investment and would be a very bad idea. One group and multiple brands is the way to go.

The idea is to create a global brand, not a pan-European one. The growth in the global economy is not coming from Europe, neither is it going to come from Europe any time soon. While, indeed, the brands are well-established in Europe, the new brand would be really for markets outside Europe.

Same arguments apply. Brands like Lufthansa and Swiss are very strong in other parts of the world. Many Asians flyiing to Europe prefer to fly Swiss than their own national carriers because of the brand image. Many Africans fly SN because of their long history (including the Sabena heritage) in many African countries.

All of that is lost with a global brand. Millions of people buy Volkswagens, BMWs, Audis and Mercedes all over the world because of their association with German quality and engineering, although the cars are built in many parts of the world. You don't see them coming up with a new "global" brand to replace their names.

And, using the LH Group anaology, Volkswagen owns Audi, Porsche, Skoda, SEAT and Bentley but you don't see them trying to replace all those brands with one global brand, although many vehicles are built on common platforms under the skin. I see many of the same reasons for the LH Group to maintain their separate brands.

[Edited 2013-03-26 18:26:49]

User currently offlineSenchingo From Germany, joined Oct 2010, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15190 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 2):
It seems that LH is quietly pursuing a strategy to consolidate European airlines for the purpose of preserving market share and dominance in the region

Agree

Quoting VS11 (Reply 8):
I think it is time for LH to start thinking of a new name for itself and all its subsidiaries

No way. Lufthansa is a brand that is known for different reasons. There's a reason why they didn't change their livery for such long time - recognition value. Same goes for the name, just changed from Deutsche Luft Hansa to Lufthansa because of different, very deep political reasons after a dark time for Germany.

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
No it most definitely does not make sense. Countries in Europe are not the same as U.S. states. Residents of each European country have strong brand loyalties to their own airlines and it makes complete sense to capitalize on that.

Exactly. We Europeans can never understand why people would make countries here all the same... Italy, France, Germany, Spain, Belgium etc etc are about as different in culture as they can be.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 15):
Lol. Here's my suggestion:


Quoting VS11 (Reply 16):
The growth in the global economy is not coming from Europe, neither is it going to come from Europe any time soon

Huh? Germany is the leading market in Europe. Some of the worlds biggest car manufacturers, technology companies, research institutes, pharma industries and so on are located in Germany. In total the European market is one of the biggest, except Asia and the US (plus growing ones like China (who declare themselves as "development country" so they can keep on getting founds) and India (mainly pharma/chemical and IT)).
Don't quite understand why Europe would not be a major player here?

P.S: I'm keeping out of the political debate why the Euro is losing value as Germany keeps feeding other, dying economies to survive just to make the Euro Zone "more stable"...

Quoting SN535 (Thread starter):
Personally, having worked at Sabena, I have mixed feelings about this. What will become of the airline once they are fully owned by Lufthansa?

Well, my 2 cents: They will end up like all the others: Keep the brand, but restructure it and make it belong to Lufthansa. Fight with Flight and/or Cabin Crews, come up with new cost saving contracts and make it work  

Cheers/Sen


[Edited 2013-03-27 12:49:41 by Luxair747SP]

User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2885 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15141 times:
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One day, perhaps 50 or 100 years the world will see global carriers as if LH, UA, AC, ANA, Avianca, Thai, China will all just merge into one - same as with AA, BA, TAM, Cathay etc etc. The yet to be born A.netters will talk about the good old days (today) look at all the old cool liveries and vintage 787's that ran on fossil fuel!

Remember in 2001 PanAm flew to the space station.



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14687 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 20):
Why create one if you already have one? "Lufthansa" may be German, but doesn't even include the name of the country in any language.

Well, for sensitivity reasons, it may be difficult to rename Swiss and Austrian to Lufthansa, even though that would be a natural step. So while "Lufthansa" could very well be the unifying brand, and I think it is a strong brand, it might be more acceptable for some of the subsidiaries (and the respective countries) to have a new brand.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11556 posts, RR: 61
Reply 20, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14607 times:

Quoting VS11 (Reply 21):
Well, for sensitivity reasons, it may be difficult to rename Swiss and Austrian to Lufthansa, even though that would be a natural step.

Okay, but you do realize that those "sensitivity reasons" apply to virtually every other country and every other national airline brand in Europe, especially with Germany (and Lufthansa). Therein lies the problem with your theory of unifying under one pan-European or "global" brand. It just doesn't work.

For better or worse, national airlines are intensely tied to national identities, probably even more so in Europe than some other places. People don't care about it as much for Ryanair or EasyJet because those truly have become pan-European brands. But people still associate Lufthansa with its homeland, see Swiss Air Lines as a symbol of Switzerland, and define Alitalia as definitely Italian.

This phenomenon is not going to change any time soon.


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8702 posts, RR: 43
Reply 21, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14586 times:

Quoting VS11 (Reply 21):
Well, for sensitivity reasons, it may be difficult to rename Swiss and Austrian to Lufthansa, even though that would be a natural step.

Why on earth would it be a natural step? You really need to stop thinking of European countries in terms of American states.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14545 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 22):
Okay, but you do realize that those "sensitivity reasons" apply to virtually every other country and every other national airline brand in Europe, especially with Germany (and Lufthansa). Therein lies the problem with your theory of unifying under one pan-European or "global" brand. It just doesn't work.

For better or worse, national airlines are intensely tied to national identities, probably even more so in Europe than some other places. People don't care about it as much for Ryanair or EasyJet because those truly have become pan-European brands. But people still associate Lufthansa with its homeland, see Swiss Air Lines as a symbol of Switzerland, and define Alitalia as definitely Italian.

This phenomenon is not going to change any time soon.

Yes, I do realize the sensitivities - I am myself from Europe. That's why I suggested a new name - so no one feels like losing. The point I am making is that from a global perspective it is better for all these airlines to be perceived as one by people outside Europe e.g. consumers in the Americas, Asia, etc.


User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 14949 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 23):
Why on earth would it be a natural step? You really need to stop thinking of European countries in terms of American states.

It is a natural step because LH bought them - that's all, otherwise they would have become bankrupt sooner or later. (And I don't think of European countries as American states - I am from Europe)


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2757 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14445 times:

Well, all the best to LH here, and may they make SN profitable very soon, so that LH may do its acquisition, and then SN could get anti-trust TALT along with the other *A members.

With then with all of that........ it would be time to see an SN hub-to-hub DEN-BRU nonstop flight.

Just my    thrown in for fun.....

 


25 JU068 : Funny that you ask others to keep some of their opinions to themselves, maybe you should do the same, especially since you want to keep out of the po
26 1400mph : Well yes and we also wouldn't want the rest of Europe thinking they were getting a bit overly controlling now would we......................
27 IndianicWorld : Interesting that they state that they will take the 100% stake in SN only once it becomes profitable. It better do that in next few yewars or I am sur
28 okAY : Even if the idea is to create a global brand (which I'm not absolutely sure is the ultimate goal), basic marketing ideas still apply. "Think global, a
29 Post contains links and images Paolo92 : Edward Russell on twitter, yesterday: #Brussels Airlines could make a tentative narrowbody fleet replacement decision by Q3, says @lufthansa_usa CFO
30 YTZ : I wasn't attempting to be funny entirely. I have Austrian relatives. Indeed, my godsister's boyfriend works for OS. How do you think they feel about
31 American 767 : And some will say: "Do you remember the A380?" " I want to fly one last time on the A350 before they are gone" "A350 final flight. When and where?" "
32 drgmobile : Couldn't agree more. And Lufthansa is not a bad base from which to start. After all, Holland America,Norwegian Cruise Lines, Southwest Airlines demon
33 YTZ : If I were Belgian, I'd be more worried about people saying, "There used to be a country named Belgium?", 50 years from now.
34 SKAirbus : Whatever happened to IAG's strategy of challenging LH's dominance in Europe??? I thought they were on the war path and going to buy up various airline
35 sierra3tango : Well they bought BMI from (err was it?) LH at a knock down price
36 Post contains links sierra3tango : Oh and here's another one I forgot IAG Increases Offer For Vueling Shares (by LHRFlyer Mar 27 2013 in Civil Aviation)
37 VV701 : This will only be possible when all the international routes operated by the various airlines are either covered by an EU Air Services Agreement or b
38 VS11 : There are very easy ways around this. All they have to do is change their name, or not even that - keep their existing legal names but paint the plan
39 Viscount724 : However they could do what LAN does with separately registered subsidiaries in multiple countries other than Chile (LAN Peru, LAN Argentina, LAN Ecua
40 senatorflyer : What would exactly be the benefit to have one brand? So far I only hear it would be a good idea without any real advantage. Lufthansa Group is working
41 VS11 : I think you answered your own question - well, partly. Having a consistent product would be one advantage. Just imagine people like you knowing that
42 senatorflyer : Ahm, raising the standards on LH will cost a lot of money. Seriously, we are talking of a quality brand with a fleet of 100 airplanes. So apply the sa
43 VS11 : In the case of LH, you will not have 3 governments, only LH calling the shots.
44 SCQ83 : I completely agree on Swiss... they are perceived as a more exclusive product, part of the "Swiss" uniqueness in every sense. Changing the name and a
45 senatorflyer : Agreed, and hence they have all the freedom to standardise everything behind the scene. Again, keeping it the way it is brings far the better results
46 senatorflyer : I think Brussels is a special case. Squeezed between Paris, Amsterdam and Frankfurt they obviously can't offer an extended longhaul network since the
47 SCQ83 : Again, I think for the case of SN, it would be benefitial for them to get the whole Lufthansa brand and name to get more relevance both at home and ab
48 senatorflyer : I hear you, the only problem is that SN is not going to offer a massive longhaul network. So, if you want to go anywhere on Star you will have to chan
49 SCQ83 : But as others have pointed there are two points of interest: - The African network. It can easily be expanded to North America (NA-Africa) with new co
50 dennys : Why no ex LH A343s given to SN , then ?
51 senatorflyer : I still hear you, however, the African destinations could be easily moved to Frankfurt and they could relay on the rest of the LH network. SN is not a
52 senatorflyer : Adding that Sabena only had 1 profitable year in its 80 year old history says something about the market conditions in Brussels.
53 Miami : I hope this means Brussels will launch MIA sooner or later
54 JU068 : They tried and they failed. Lufthansa Italia did not last very long. But Air Dolomiti seem to do just fine and they are owned by Lufthansa and operat
55 Post contains links SwissVA : Awe... Poor little Belgium and Brussels... Last week I was reading somewhere that the Brussels Capital Region is on the nr. 3 spot of the wealthiest
56 factsonly : And many of you will be familiar with the outcome of the Airline Hunter Strategy, developed for Swissair by the great consultants McKinsey!!! From Wik
57 blueflyer : In this age of code-shares and (transatlantic) joint-ventures, I am not sure that the name of the airline operating the flight matters at all. I think
58 Viscount724 : LH Italia was basically a stand-alone carrier operrating various routes to/from MXP. It wasn't integrated with the rest of the LH network but had to
59 JU068 : True, but the business models of both Austrian Airlines and Swiss is closer to that of Lufthansa Italia than Air Dolomiti.
60 SN535 : Interesting you're saying this. Can we see a more consistent alignment of services between all carriers in the future? Will Lufthansa let them keep t
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