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LH CFO Defies Unions: "We're Prepared To Fight"  
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 10873 times:

Simone Menne, Chief Financial Officer of Lufthansa, told Reuters in a press conference :

"We are ready to go for further strikes, including with pilots, if necessary"
"We are ready to go for more strikes and will not agree to short-term harmony if there is long term further burdening "

Is she bluffing or really trying to start a war against the unions ??



Rgds.
G.


80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
123 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinerampbro From Canada, joined Nov 2012, 255 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10779 times:

Aaaaaaand that's why accountants are not the best folks to do the talking.

User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8735 posts, RR: 42
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10621 times:

Quoting rampbro (Reply 1):
Aaaaaaand that's why accountants are not the best folks to do the talking.

They might want to check with their passengers whether or not those want them to be "prepared to fight".
I'm guessing there'd be more support for "prepared to fly", but hey, they're only your customers.

Lufthansa, I weep for you.

[Edited 2013-03-26 16:39:24]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinePHXFlyer16 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 10579 times:

Another European carrier fighting the unions... sigh.

I feel for them. Unions are strangling these airlines and Europe in general with their entitlement attitudes and it continues to catch on in the US. And people wonder why the Middle East carriers are crushing everyone else.

Very short sighted by the unions. Ultimately you will get more money but several of your co-workers won't be around to enjoy in your greed. Even more of your passengers will have had enough with the fare hikes and fly other carriers when possible.


User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1872 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10513 times:
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This is why a deregulated industry is great. If one airline is on strike/lock out or MIA, there will likely be other airlines there to snap up the business.

Like it or not, the Middle Eastern airlines have changed the paradigm. The ULH aircraft now being deployed have further pushed the industry away from the 1970-2000 era. Both management and the unions must see that and they have to set up their relationship to be able to compete with these airlines or go the way of the dodo.


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8735 posts, RR: 42
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10450 times:

Quoting PHXFlyer16 (Reply 3):
Ultimately you will get more money but several of your co-workers won't be around to enjoy in your greed.

What greed? They're not asking for anything out of this world - and factoring in that unions rarely ever get what they ask for, they must already be asking for more than what even they believe they can get. All in all, the LH staff in question will be lucky to preserve the status quo when all is said and done.

On the other hand, confrontational comments from management like those made by Ms Menne will only drive more people away from LH. "We're prepared for strikes!" means little else than "We don't care if you make it to your destination!"



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlinePHXFlyer16 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10421 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 5):
On the other hand, confrontational comments from management like those made by Ms Menne will only drive more people away from LH. "We're prepared for strikes!" means little else than "We don't care if you make it to your destination!"

I disagree... You have to stand up. If MGT continues to roll over and give in then it sets a precident that all anyone has to do when they do when they decide they want another raise in 6mo is threaten to strike again. It happens again and again and again and you are now Air France or Iberia.


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8735 posts, RR: 42
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10371 times:

Quoting PHXFlyer16 (Reply 6):

Yeah, no. That's not the corporate culture in Germany. Co-determination has forced unions to face the realities of business; when you're a board member, you can't really play the "us versus them" game without ending up a hypocrite. We were once known, and this very much includes Lufthansa, for the low amount of strikes that occurred. But when businesses and politicians started fighting the big unions, successfully in many cases, the workers who no longer felt represented properly joined smaller, specialised unions - and voilà, we got to the mess we're in now. One month it's cabin crew, the next it's ground and then the pilots start again... rinse and repeat in twelve months because nobody seems to sign contracts for more than that amount of time anymore.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8706 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10366 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 5):
On the other hand, confrontational comments from management

Managers fight for the shareholder and customer interests. They don't work for employees. In other words, this is not a "fight" among equals. Managers have a duty to manage the company. Workers have a duty to work there, or leave.

At least in my worldview. I don't make childish threats to anyone. Is the LH CFO doing that, not directly but a little too close for comfort.


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8735 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 10339 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
Managers fight for the shareholder and customer interests.

Interesting priorities...  Anyway, the employees are a major assett to any company, particularly one in a service industry. I cannot for the life of me imagine how the current tone set by management might help preserve the value of that assett.

Bearing in mind that LH management has, over the years, spent (or even wasted) millions upon millions on BMI et al while ignoring several key product trends, I can definitely understand a certain dissatisfaction among the workforce.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17784 posts, RR: 46
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10299 times:

Quoting PHXFlyer16 (Reply 6):
You have to stand up. If MGT continues to roll over and give in then it sets a precident that all anyone has to do when they do when they decide they want another raise in 6mo is threaten to strike again. It happens again and again and again and you are now Air France or Iberia.

Both sides can do what they want; that invisible hand will slap them back to reality regardless in the end. Hey Malev!



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlinemichman From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 544 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10240 times:

Where does she ever say "We're prepared to fight"??? If she didn't say it, don't put it in quotes!!

User currently offlineAR385 From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 6466 posts, RR: 32
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10226 times:
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Quoting PHXFlyer16 (Reply 3):
Very short sighted by the unions. Ultimately you will get more money but several of your co-workers won't be around to enjoy in your greed.

You may wish to take a look at what happened with IB the last few weeks in Spain. The unions got exactly what they wanted and IAG was forced to accept things they had said they would never agree to.


User currently offlineavek00 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 4412 posts, RR: 19
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10191 times:

It's about time! For years, European airline managers have had to pull all sorts of rabbits out the proverbial hat to deal with very expensive and inefficient labor infrastructures. The era of magic spells is now over, with US partners and Mideast & Asian rivals both putting pressure on Euro legacies to no longer be the costliest airlines in the world from an operating standpoint.


Live life to the fullest.
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5906 posts, RR: 5
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10189 times:

Playing devils advocate here...

Quoting aloges (Reply 9):
Interesting priorities

It's the law, management of a public interest have to act in the interests of the shareholders.

Arguably customers are #2 priority as it is their money you need to be profitable.

Quoting aloges (Reply 9):
for the life of me imagine how the current tone set by management might help preserve the value of that assett

Technically employees aren't an asset.


As I said, I'm playing devils advocate. I don't necessarily agree with the legal regime as it stands, but it is what it is



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8735 posts, RR: 42
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10133 times:

Quoting michman (Reply 11):
Where does she ever say "We're prepared to fight"??? If she didn't say it, don't put it in quotes!!

One article in German coming up:

Quote:
Lufthansa zeigt sich unnachgiebig

Die Tarifverhandlungen bei der Lufthansa sind festgefahren. Die Finanzchefin gibt sich weiterhin hart: „Wir sind bereit für neue Streiks, notfalls auch der Piloten, wenn wir dadurch unsere langfristigen Ziele erreichen.“
(...)
„Wir würden nicht wegen kurzfristiger Harmonie unser langfristiges Wachstum aufs Spiel setzen“, ...

Those are the relevant quotes, now for the translation:

Lufthansa unbending

The labour dispute at Lufthansa is going nowhere. The CFO remains tough: "We are prepared for more strikes, possibly even pilots' strikes, if this is how we can achieve our long-term goals."
(...)
"We would not jeopardise long-term growth for short-term harmony" ...

Quoting avek00 (Reply 13):
For years, European airline managers have had to pull all sorts of rabbits out the proverbial hat to deal with very expensive and inefficient labor infrastructures.

You mean like the lower wages and longer hours that LH staff have already swallowed up?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6844 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 10133 times:

Does Simone Menne take the same kind of pay/benefits cuts offered to employees ?


New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineGonzalo From Chile, joined Aug 2005, 1992 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10103 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 9):
Bearing in mind that LH management has, over the years, spent (or even wasted) millions upon millions on BMI et al while ignoring several key product trends, I can definitely understand a certain dissatisfaction among the workforce.

And probably the timing for this kind of statements from a CFO wasn't the best, specially if we consider that right now in this same fórums we have this :

Lufthansa To Acquire Brussels Airliners For 100% (by SN535 Mar 26 2013 in Civil Aviation)

LH To Launch A Long Haul Low Cost Carrier? (by AF185 Mar 25 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Quoting michman (Reply 11):
Where does she ever say "We're prepared to fight"??? If she didn't say it, don't put it in quotes!!

Was there earlier today, even was the title of a couple of articles in the press. I always try to not use the same titles of related press releases in respect of the site rules re copyright ( I already had a couple of threads deleted in the past for that reason ) . In any case, if you read what she said out there in the web, you should see that she is in fact proposing a fight against the unions, no matter what semantic or grammar she could use.


Rgds.
G.



80 Knots...V1...Rotate...Gear Up...DC-3 / EMB-110 / Fairchild-227 / Ab318-19-20 / B732 / B763
User currently offlinePHXFlyer16 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10082 times:

Quoting AR385 (Reply 12):
You may wish to take a look at what happened with IB the last few weeks in Spain. The unions got exactly what they wanted and IAG was forced to accept things they had said they would never agree to.

Exactly, and that's not a good thing. IB was already bleeding money. This will only make matters worse. Wait and see if those higher wages are worth the whole airline shrinking or closing down and many many people losing their jobs. An unprofitable business will in the end suffer the consequences. It is because of Spain's entitlement culture that unemployment is astronomical and they are suffering a debt crisis.


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8735 posts, RR: 42
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10080 times:

Quoting Gonzalo (Reply 17):
And probably the timing for this kind of statements from a CFO wasn't the best, specially if we consider that right now in this same fórums we have this :

...and this, too:

LH Buys 100 A320, 2 A380, 6 77W Part 1 (by FlyingAY Mar 14 2013 in Civil Aviation)

Sadly, timing is just one of the many things they're currently mucking up. For instance, I'm quite curious about the "new Germanwings" where employees from two different categories will, in all likelihood, end up working flights together: those hired by LH under the older, better terms and those hired by 4U... you can already taste the delicious atmosphere on board, can't you?

What gets me the most is this total disregard for people - a no-no in a service industry, if I'm any judge. They're basically telling their employees that their work is worth less and always less and Ms Menne's message to passengers is "We don't really care if you're affected by strikes!"

Quoting PHXFlyer16 (Reply 18):
It is because of Spain's entitlement culture that unemployment is astronomical and they are suffering a debt crisis.

I'm just wondering: What is this extremely broad statement of yours based on? Do you simply feel, well, entitled to an opinion because you've heard it somewhere and liked the sound of it or have you actually studied Spain to such a degree that your opinion is qualified?

[Edited 2013-03-26 19:11:59]


Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5906 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10068 times:

Quoting PHXFlyer16 (Reply 18):
It is because of Spain's entitlement culture that unemployment is astronomical and they are suffering a debt crisis.

Wow, easy there. I agree in principle with a lot of what you said, but this is flat out wrong. Spain does have very generous employment law, I agree.

BUT the economic maelstrom was caused - almost exclusively - by their poorly leveraged banks. It had nothing to do with an "entitlement culture".



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17784 posts, RR: 46
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10053 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 19):

What gets me the most is this total disregard for people - a no-no in a service industry, if I'm any judge.

A) Nobody pays for service. B) The union protection against economic reality is a bit like King Canute commanding the tide to stop coming in, so you end up getting these huge, dramatic step changes that piss everyone off, rather than starting from a flexible structure that can roll with the economic punches. It's a story as old as deregulation, but one thing is for certain, no one will learn from it.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinefutureualpilot From United States of America, joined May 2000, 2608 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10052 times:

Quoting PHXFlyer16 (Reply 3):
I feel for them. Unions are strangling these airlines and Europe in general with their entitlement attitudes and it continues to catch on in the US. And people wonder why the Middle East carriers are crushing everyone else.

Yeah, darn those employees for wanting to be treated fair and compensated justly for their time and effort. What a selfish attitude they must have. Middle east carriers tend to have better work rules and compensate their crews much better, generally speaking than any other place in the world which prevents the need for unions to begin with. FYI, US legacy carriers, all of whom are unionized are expected to show a profit. The reason for the disparity between middle east carriers and "everyone else" is far, far beyond union vs non-union.

Quoting PHXFlyer16 (Reply 3):
Very short sighted by the unions.

But not the management type who admits they're willing to fight? Very disingenuous to only cite the unions for being short sighted here.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 8):
Managers fight for the shareholder and customer interests. They don't work for employees.

Perhaps this is part of the problem. Fighting for shareholder and customer interests tends to be done at the expense of the quality of life of the labor force that makes the company function. With nobody to stand between management and the employees you get...a union.



[Edited 2013-03-26 19:19:02]

[Edited 2013-03-26 19:22:51]


Life is better when you surf.
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17784 posts, RR: 46
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10028 times:

Quoting futureualpilot (Reply 22):
Middle east carriers tend to have better work rules and compensate their crews much better, generally speaking than any other place in the world which prevents the need for unions to begin with.

If you want carriers to fire you because you gained a pound, had a hair out of place, turned 36, or rejected the overture of some nasty sheikh, then go on right ahead!



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinePHXFlyer16 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 10020 times:

I studied in Spain two years ago during the PIGS crisis and this was discussed regularly in class. I witnessed the protests and people living in the parks in protest.

I am not trying to single out Spain, its a great place that I love. That goes for all of Europe, but policies around pensions and unions, retirement, etc have created a dangerous business climate. While much of the world is starting to rebound, Europe is lacking behind because of their laws.

The same thing is happening in the US to a lesser degree. This is why Asian is kicking all of our butts lately. I am not trying to be negative, rather expressing my concern and sadness how these once great countries, economies and airlines are struggling so much.


25 AR385 : What higher wages? You really have no idea what you are talking about do you?
26 futureualpilot : I have no issue with that. I'm not required to go work there and neither is anybody else.
27 PHXFlyer16 : I'm sorry, but I am pretty sure they are treated better than most. It reminds me of auto workers in the US who were getting these ridiculous pensions
28 RyanairGuru : This sort of mentality is the downside of unionism. Similarly US apparently had some people on the ramp at PHL who did, well, nothing. Thankfully the
29 futureualpilot : I don't know too much about LH and their policies but if a labor group is willing to strike I can only assume what is being asked of them is unfair.
30 PHXFlyer16 : Yes, current salaries are higher relative to proposed cuts. This is unsustainable and is not in the long term interest of the airline's survival.
31 aloges : I'm sorry, but this is ridiculous. What is air transportation, if not a service and how do you get someone to provide it to you if not by paying for
32 Post contains links AR385 : Take a look at this. IAG Accepts IB Mediation - Unions Pending (by Stratofish Mar 10 2013 in Civil Aviation)?threadid=5711399&searchid=5714050&am
33 MaverickM11 : You implied that poor service due to crew animosity would drive passengers away, which, were it true, there'd be about two airlines left. Love that a
34 Post contains images Gonzalo : Regarding all the Management / Unions relations, and how they treat each other, I remember a few years ago, I read a book about Southwest Airlines and
35 MaverickM11 : WN essentially bought its labor peace, which worked for a long time, but is now proving a challenge.
36 aloges : There's a lot of choice in the skies of Europe. If 4U fails to deliver what LH has so far managed to keep delivering, passengers will fly on other ca
37 MaverickM11 : Sure is, but 'service' isn't driving buying decisions in any meaningful way. Either that or Ryanair has incredible service. Works great for the most
38 LOWS : So, if I make some massively broad conclusions about the enitre US based on my experience studying in Oklahoma, would that be ok with you? In Austria
39 PanHAM : Nice in theory, but Mr. Frank Bsirske, head of the infamous Ver.di union and co-chairman of the LH board has, throughout his mandate, always worked a
40 seahawk : It is good for the unions to know that they now must fight. And they should not compromise at all.
41 CaptainCrackers : As does the total income of all Lufthansa employees under its profit-sharing schemes. But I bet Menne wasn't hired at a much, much lower fixed rate l
42 zkokq : Borrow Alan Joyce, that will fix the unions.. Company's shouldn't be held to the extortion of unions wants and demands. Otherwise we will end up in a
43 LHRFlyer : Did they? There are still large scale redundancies and the reduction in the number of redundancies will be offset by productivity improvements. IAG c
44 PanHAM : The shareholders get another zero year. Nil, nada, nichts. Ms. Menne gets paid for conrolling the employment costs, that is not a lottery win, she ne
45 AR385 : They got a lot less people to be fired. They got much less reductions in payment scale And much more importantly, all redundancies, will be under the
46 LHRFlyer : That is rather unnecessary. IAG made clear they anticipated industrial action and was prepared for it. If IAG couldn't get a satisfactory outcome, th
47 UALWN : But, honestly, quite deserved. Which they failed to show. At the end, I'd agree that IAG got most of what they wanted, although at a higher price...
48 mozart : Ouch, not very smart of her to make that kind of statement. Indeed, all European legacy carriers face a huge challenge with cost and especially with l
49 Gonzalo : I have the same feeling. The vast majority of people out there ( I'm sure over 90 % ) looking for an airline to fly from point A to point B is absolu
50 aloges : That's interesting, would you be able to provide some background information?
51 turn720 : Lets not put the cart in front of the ox here. The banks became poorly leveraged because they were used to finance the "entitlement cuture". Sorry fo
52 seahawk : 5,2% lunatic? That is a very low demand. In Europe so much money has been thrown down the throats of banks and capitalists, It is time that workers s
53 PanHAM : it is about LH, not banks. The -what you call "capitalists"- get nothing, I said that before. The conditions under which LH is working has been menti
54 AirPacific747 : I guess you have no clue what the low cost carriers are doing to the employees then and they are pulling the entire industry in that direction. Pilot
55 Speedbird128 : In this economy, I think it sadly is lunatic...
56 PHXFlyer16 : That's fine, but then don't join an industry with realities like these if you are interested in making a lot of money. If those are market rates, the
57 PanHAM : The disease is called "ideology". No company, no country can be run efficiently by an ideology unless they call themselves "church" and are tax exemp
58 YTZ : I can appreciate the perspective of an employee. But surely you understand that LH has to be competitive. It faces huge threats all around. The ME3+T
59 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Oh for chrissakes--LH pilots are well compensated by any measure. Half of Europe is being bailed out left and right, and LH pilots are easily in the
60 RDH3E : LH management is widely regarded as the best management team in Aviation, so I don't know what you're talking about. Certainly everyone makes mistake
61 YTZ : If LH's board caves, I daresay, there'll be little reason for anybody to invest in LH. As it is, airlines offer such poor returns. And then you have l
62 AirPacific747 : Once one airline starts cutting down costs somewhere, all the others have to follow suit. So don't join this business you say. Next time it will be s
63 Gonzalo : I could be wrong, but I don't see any spiral here. Are this percentages of 5.2 % (or similar) realistic with the current inflation rate and GDP growt
64 YTZ : Welcome to the global economy. If the best argument that you have against cost-cutting is an argument against globalization, then I fear for LH, Germ
65 AirPacific747 : Good point. There may not be a problem in is exact case. Efficiency to an extent where you think the above mentioned working conditions are acceptabl
66 aloges : I am not an LH employee, but self-employed (as a side job apart from university) and my kind of business depends on reliabilty and punctuality like f
67 futureualpilot : I already admitted I don't know the entirety of the LH situation, however if the LH labor feels what is being asked is unjust there is validity to th
68 Gonzalo : One thing related, at least competition wise, is the fact that the main hub of LH, FRA, is limited by a curfew in the operation hours, a problem that
69 YTZ : Entirely acceptable. Okay I'm being slightly facetious. I don't agree with some of sexual harassment stuff at the ME3. But that's a function of the c
70 Post contains images PHXFlyer16 :
71 mozart : 5.2% pay rise - but what for? To reward them for more work? No, they don't work more. To compensate for higher cost of living? No, inflation is much
72 seahawk : All those cuts are just for the shareholders. It is time the workers get more money - much more money, not just the greedy managers and shareholders.
73 mozart : Hmm. So when shareholders want to increase their returns that is a terrible thing, unethical and they are greedy. But when employees want more money
74 Post contains images Gonzalo : Couldn't agree more !!! LH is not a cooperative. It is a private company. And it does have a system to share profits with the honest workers. The ide
75 Post contains images PanHAM : Thanks for the compliments, I am a "greedy" shareholder and I have more than once, in the 20 or so years I am holding LH shares, got nothing, while a
76 PHXFlyer16 : Unless I am mistaken, LH is a publicly traded company. As such, the employees are welcome to purchase stock (likely at a discount or with additional
77 Post contains images RDH3E : I don't know how it works in Germany specifically, but generally here in the US the largest shareholders in major corporations are Pension funds and
78 MaverickM11 : Even US and DL have no issues recruiting workers--they've had 50+ applicants for every 1 FA position because guess what--it's a freakin' amazing job
79 UALWN : And the upper management. Example: Tom Horton's pretension to get $20m for leading AA into bankruptcy...
80 PanHAM : Same here and with the company we are discussing. "Institutional investors" as they are called here, are the largest individual shareholders and when
81 MaverickM11 : Yeah, one guy, which is admittedly ludicrous and the bankruptcy judge questioned. Even Arpey turned down the golden parachute.
82 mozart : Interesting to note that all our class warriors seem to have left the discussion.
83 Post contains images PanHAM : They are either spending their long easter weekend holidays somewhere in the warmer zones of Europe and the hard core fraction attends thr easter marc
84 seahawk : There is nothing much to discuss. LH can not drop costs to a level that would match the middle eastern carriers. Even if they are able to reduce costs
85 mozart : That shifts the discussion from class war to a much more sensible discussion of strategy and competition. Whilst I do believe that the ME3 are indeed
86 Post contains images Pihero : A comment that in my opinion is uncalled for. Not knowing the workers' situation at Lufthansa, I don't feel able to discuss union - management négoc
87 MaverickM11 : No one is saying it's a sign of good management. It is a sign that all other options have left the building, through years of industry, government, u
88 PanHAM : There is no chapter 11 in Germany which is good for all concerned, but if a company goes bankcrupt, the recently revised (in Germany) bankcruptcy laws
89 douglasyxz : In the same press release LH announced to buy new, fuel-efficient planes, they said they would not pay a dividend. I can't see shareholders get money
90 mozart : But founded by some substance, as objectively any observer, political scientist or economist or other, would put the following choice of language in
91 L410Turbolet : While not sure whether I should simply laugh or shake my head in disbelief over this 19th century rhetoric taken straight from the pages of Communist
92 PHXFlyer16 : All is not rosy here. What we are doing with entitlements is unsustainable. What Europe, and especially France is doing is even more unsustainable.
93 Pihero : Care to compare debts / wages / social security / Medicare... ? I daresay the US is far closer to bankrupcy than France. ... or the EU.[Edited 2013-0
94 Pihero : When these *tired old socialists* participate in paying 150€ per year per Czech citizen, the first thing in order is say "Thank you". Of course, yo
95 AAIL86 : You mean kind of like here in the US, where the dysfunction of the financial system nearly destroyed the world economy in ’08-’09? Instead of pro
96 tommytoyz : Couldn't agree more.
97 PHXFlyer16 : Sure. Overall debt to GDP% in France is lower than the US by about 10%. However, France and Germany and also at the mercy of Greece, Italy, Portugal
98 PHXFlyer16 : Guess what? The world doesn't care! Yes we would all hate for that to happen, but you have to accept the reality of markets. You cannot artificially
99 L410Turbolet : Now, imagine how the Americans must feel... if it wasn't for their Marshall Plan you'd be still sitting on WW2 ruins making sure you are not working
100 AAIL86 : Forgive the sarcasm, but no airline worldwide, even the Gulf carrers, could compete with my slave-staffed airline based in Somalia. And massive amoun
101 Post contains images douglasyxz : "If there was a viable option how to leave the Titanic, I certainly would." Oh Lord... Leave the EU and live on an island right in the middle of Europ
102 Pihero : Read a bit more on history, my friend : France has paid back, to the last cent the loans from the Marshall plan. It was a matter of pride for De Gaul
103 mozart : Works very well for Switzerland thank you very much. Growth rates much higher than in the EU, unemployment much lower, very low public debt, many rec
104 Pihero : A myopic view with blinkers... Just what I thought. Non. Vaut mieux pas. (better not ) Regards.
105 mozart : Again, not my view (the topic is far more complex and off topic), just second guessing. I hope the poster comes back and clarifies whether this is wh
106 Aviaco : The whole thread should be more focussed on HOW she sent the message.. Maybe she is right, maybe she is not. But she decided to use a quite unintegrat
107 mozart : Exactly. I personally find that she was unnecessarily aggressive and conflictual. So are some of the union leaders (Bsirske is quite a warrior himsel
108 Post contains links Pihero : I amalways amazed at the type of sweeping statement that is the normal reporting ways of US journalists. Far from raiding the banks, the Cyprus gover
109 PHXFlyer16 : What are you talking about? The article clearly states "At both banks, deposits above 100,000 euros will be used by the government to contribute bill
110 douglasyxz : I do know very well Switzerland is in good shape. But they have always been independent and neutral. I was referring to Czech, currently member of EU
111 Pihero : After this post,, what I can say is let's agree to disagree. We've already taken too much bandwidth. As for the "bail out ", it's about saving the ba
112 douglasyxz : What you don't understand is that there is a different culture of communication in the US, Europe, China, Japan... You cannot just transfer your hire
113 mozart : Different parts of the world have different mentalities and sensitivities. In the US people seem to be much less sensitive how things are said. The f
114 Post contains links tommytoyz : I think you can sum up European mentality towards money this way: Pay Cut Requested By VW CEO http://blog.checkeredflag.com/my_web...02/pay-cut-reques
115 Pihero : I hope the two latest posts on this thread will help forumers understand each other across an ocean better. Thank you both, Mozart and Tommytoyz.
116 mozart : Very true. Although it is worthwhile noting that there are huge differences between European countries. I made that experience recently when I was in
117 seahawk : That is not surprising considering the aggressive approach VERDI has taken in recent conflicts. And we know that VERDI is usually tamer than the pilo
118 PHXFlyer16 : The statement is a product of her frustration with the Unions continuing to want more and more. She was trying to make it crystal clear that it won't
119 chootie : Hi all!!! IMO Ms. Menne should just take her broom and fly off to someplace for inappropriate behavior. Problem at hand is that, most of the LH employ
120 PanHAM : I could be nasty now and tell you what you could do with the broom stick, but I don't do that. On your three questions yes yes yes and they explore al
121 mozart : There are peope that have seen the structure of their compesnation changed over the past 15 years, true. In the past the company could do exteremely
122 Gonzalo : The logic and smart thinking in this attitude should be widely informed among the unión leaders of several countries around the world, including min
123 YTZ : Some points: 1) LH is not asking employees to take a pay cut or accept working conditions like the ME3. 2) The employees are asking for a pay raise th
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