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Proposed Renovations MIA Central T (E, F, And G)  
User currently offlinebeechtobus From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 273 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4081 times:

I don't recall seeing this posted on Airliners, apologies if this has been posted/discussed. I found a website with a nice PowerPoint on proposed renovations for MIAs central terminal (concourses E, F, and G) that would modernize the area between the recently renovated north and south terminals.

Here is the link from Jan 2012:

http://exmiami.org/threads/miami-int...erminal-redevelopment-proposed.44/

It looks like the plan for the new Central terminal would total 33 gates including a midfield concourse with 27 gates plus 6 gates on the terminal. This would replace the 47 gates currently on E, F, and G.

Does anyone know what stage of planning this is in currently? Does it look like this project is for sure, and if so, what type of timeline are we looking at? Any other thoughts on the project?

Like I said, apologies if this has already been discussed. After just traveling through MIA I was wondering about the 1960's era mess between the 2 relatively nice 2000's terminals, and had to see if there was any plans for it. This is what I came up with.

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 633 posts, RR: 40
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4029 times:
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Quoting beechtobus (Thread starter):

I've seen the pictures from exMiami.org not long ago. I'm very happy with the renderings.

MIA will be extending the leases of retailers currently in the central terminal for another two years, until January 2015.

The airport expects to have completed plans for the Central Terminal redevelopment by that time.

The Central Terminal is composed of the terminal and concourses known as “E” (including Satellite E), “F”, and "G”. Developed around 1960, the Central Terminal, which includes the only wooden concourse (G) at the Airport, is the only section of the Terminal that has not been modernized.

The Miami Dade Aviation Department (MDAD) is analyzing the potential for the redevelopment of the Central Terminal to bring it into parity with the new North and South Terminals and achieve the following - -
- Provide ease of expansion for existing air carriers;
- Increase gate capacity (passenger volumes) and flexibility for accommodating a mix of
domestic and international activity;
- Maximize the potential for post security, non-aviation revenue-generation by significantly expanding the shopping opportunities to defray some of the debt service associated with this potential construction;
- Enhance the customer experience within the Terminal by providing spacious and open areas, a diverse mix of retail and food offerings within a short walking distance, and ease of connectivity to the North and South Terminate, the Miami intermodal Center Station and other landside facilities;
- Improve customer service for passengers connecting from domestic flights so they would not have to be re-screened; and
- Improve aircraft circulation within and around the new gates in the Central Terminal area.

Of the 33 new gates projected within the redeveloped Central Terminal, 27 are wide-body gates capable of serving long-range international flights. An additional five gates will be capable of accommodating the larger (500+ passenger capacity) and newer generation aircraft such as the Airbus A380.

Based upon a recent capacity analysis and depending upon the rate of MIA passenger traffic growth, the redevelopment of the Central Terminal may need to be completed by 2021. The deadline is not due to inadequate airport capacity to accommodate traffic growth but to the limitation of the new North and South Terminals to temporarily accommodate Central Terminal Airlines during the construction of the new Terminal. Moreover, the need for the redevelopment of the Central Terminal could arrive sooner than 2021 if airline activity continues growing at a higher rate than that projected by MDAD’s Traffic Engineer. Such analyses are ongoing but, regardless of the outcome of those capacity analyses, a key question will be the affordability of redeveloping the Central Terminal.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 633 posts, RR: 40
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4021 times:
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The terminal will be connected via underground walkway (like the AA terminal at JFK), with 33 gates of which 27 are widebody capable and 5 a380 capable.


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlinejustplanenutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 492 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3539 times:

Looks like this would demo the low-E gates currently connected behind security to AA's North terminal. Seems like this would limit AA's ability to expand, unless they demo the RCF or the old National hanger and expand linearly.

User currently offlineAtlflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 735 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 3499 times:

This would be great news! The other terminals are so nice and modern. The Central Terminal needs to go!

User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8090 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3443 times:
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Whatever redevelopment happens they should not reduce the amount of gates. Maybe MIA needs to kill the diagonal runway and expand the midfield terminal to include land where the diagonal runway is ?

User currently offlineeastern023 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 861 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3393 times:

Air side pathway is what is needed between terminals.


AA will Rise Again!
User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 633 posts, RR: 40
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 3262 times:
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Quoting Atlflyer (Reply 4):

I agree. The central terminal is outdated. I hope this will be built.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3236 posts, RR: 9
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3176 times:

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 3):
Looks like this would demo the low-E gates currently connected behind security to AA's North terminal. Seems like this would limit AA's ability to expand, unless they demo the RCF or the old National hanger and expand linearly.

Overflow from D could just go to the Central Terminal like it does now.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 5):
Whatever redevelopment happens they should not reduce the amount of gates. Maybe MIA needs to kill the diagonal runway and expand the midfield terminal to include land where the diagonal runway is ?

MIA also needs its runways. The diagonal one can't simply be done away with like at FLL.


User currently offlineBOACCunard From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 851 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2806 times:

I can't figure out if the hotel is getting replaced in this plan, or if the entire space is taken up by a 9-level (!) shopping mall instead. Surely a high-quality in-terminal hotel is an asset that should be a part of a world-class terminal facility.

The transformation that MIA has undergone since the 1990s has been nothing short of spectacular, and I look forward to seeing it completed. It can't happen soon enough.

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 3):
Seems like this would limit AA's ability to expand

Why would it do that? MIA is 100% common-use. AA would be no more limited to D after this project is complete than it is now.



Getting There is Half the Fun!
User currently offlinejustplanenutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 492 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2476 times:

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 8):
Overflow from D could just go to the Central Terminal like it does now.
Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 9):
Why would it do that? MIA is 100% common-use. AA would be no more limited to D after this project is complete than it is now.

I guess a better way to say that would be that the plan does not appear to anticipate/facilitate future AA growth. It:

* Eliminates 8 hardstands Eagle currently uses
* Limits expansion of the RCF to South with placement of the interior taxiway
* Replaces the low-E gates with an island that is a much further walk
* Does not expand the Skytrain into the new terminal

On the positive side for AA, the 6 landside gates would be walkable, so perhaps that could be used for OW partners.


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8090 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2383 times:
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Quoting Miami (Reply 1):
Of the 33 new gates projected within the redeveloped Central Terminal, 27 are wide-body gates capable of serving long-range international flights. An additional five gates will be capable of accommodating the larger (500+ passenger capacity) and newer generation aircraft such as the Airbus A380.

33 gates is less then what is there now, how is this progress?


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3236 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 11):
33 gates is less then what is there now, how is this progress?

Because "progress" has a different meaning in Miami. I am concerned that there doesn't seem to be anywhere to expand after this, though, unless the hardstands east of J are used for a new Concourse K expansion.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11120 posts, RR: 62
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2334 times:

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 10):
I guess a better way to say that would be that the plan does not appear to anticipate/facilitate future AA growth. It:

I think it does. There doesn't seem to be too much precluding AA and its partners from heavily utilizing these new concepts.

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 10):
* Replaces the low-E gates with an island that is a much further walk

I share your concern. To me it would seem like the best option for E would just be to get rid of the satellite altogether and reconfigure it as another long pier sticking straight out from the terminal. Nonetheless, perhaps MIA wants to get away from that or thinks that's a suboptimal use of real estate.

Quoting justplanenutz (Reply 10):
* Does not expand the Skytrain into the new terminal

True, but that's unavoidable no matter what. Due to the nature and design of D and the Skytrain, there would be no way to divert it with a spur over to E. But E is relatively small compared to D, so I don't think it's all that big a problem.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 12):
Because "progress" has a different meaning in Miami. I am concerned that there doesn't seem to be anywhere to expand after this, though, unless the hardstands east of J are used for a new Concourse K expansion.

How much room to expand to they realistically need? MIA already has tons of underutilized gate space as it is. Large portions of the central terminal is already empty for large portions of the day, no? Excluding AA/partners, how many flights does the Central Terminal even handle per day now? 30? 40? Seems like much of what's left in the Central Terminal (outside of the AA/partner operations in E) is relatively small U.S./foreign airlines in the market with relatively few flights per day. Depending on schedule, all of it could probably fit in a single concourse. And that's before US and LA/JJ vacate J for D and E, respectively, and UA and many of the other carriers in E/F/G could easily move to J in its place (UA is far smaller at MIA than US).

To me, the most logical strategic investment is to facilitate as easy a connection between D and 'new E' as much as possible to give AA lots of breathing room - realistically AA is going to continue to be by far the dominant airline going forward.

[Edited 2013-03-31 18:47:50]

User currently offlinemiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 633 posts, RR: 40
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2300 times:
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This project will not be built until 2015 and so on.

MIA will be extending the leases of retailers currently in the central terminal for another two years, until January 2015.

The airport expects to have completed plans for the Central Terminal redevelopment by that time.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlinejustplanenutz From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 492 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2158 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 13):
To me it would seem like the best option for E would just be to get rid of the satellite altogether and reconfigure it as another long pier sticking straight out from the terminal.

Other options that would provide better connectivity to AA could include:

*Extending D in an "L" configuration to the site of the current E satellite (with Skytrain above)
*A tunnel directly connecting the island with D
*A Skytrain bridge, like LAX is planning.

Again, it just doesn't seem to me that the proposed design concerns itself much with its most likely user, AA. Perhaps there are other options for AA to expand linearly (close N/S taxiway and expand RCF west or demo the old National hanger and expand east).


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8090 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2115 times:
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Quoting OB1504 (Reply 12):
Because "progress" has a different meaning in Miami. I am concerned that there doesn't seem to be anywhere to expand after this, though, unless the hardstands east of J are used for a new Concourse K expansion.

There is no rrom east of J concourse since there is a fuel farm there( where would you move it). Any additional passenger terminal expansion will have to be west of the diagonal runway into the cargo area. Maybe its time for a west terminal and entrance at MIA like they did in Atlanta with the new international concourse.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11120 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 16):
There is no rrom east of J concourse since there is a fuel farm there( where would you move it). Any additional passenger terminal expansion will have to be west of the diagonal runway into the cargo area. Maybe its time for a west terminal and entrance at MIA like they did in Atlanta with the new international concourse.

Again, though - why would you need that???

Once LAN/TAM vacates J and moves to E, J will have more open space, likely more than enough to accommodate UA. F/G seem largely deserted for major portions of the day now as it is. MIA already has so much underutilized gate space - I still struggle to see why they would need to build any "west terminal" complex anytime soon.

Here's a question: when LAN/TAM move to E, could you consolidate all the remaining F/G carriers into H/J? Would it be possible? If not, how much would still be left over that couldn't fit into H/J? From what I can tell, most of the non-AA-aligned carriers currently in the Central Terminal are carriers with very few departures per day/week - UA probably being the largest.

Again - it seems to me the more pressing and important investment should be to get a revitalized and upgraded E built as soon as possible to facilitate easy expansion and connections for AA, which is realistically going to be the dominant tenant and likely major growth driver for the foreseeable future.


User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 1884 times:

It has been talked about a lot here let's just say we are a long ways away from
seeing any redevelopment happening. Nothing has started nor will
it start for a while. Hopefully it will soon. E, F and G are eyesores.

Terminal G is used by UA and Bahamasair. But the terminal offers nothing
no amenities what so ever.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5402 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 1694 times:

Quoting Atlflyer (Reply 4):

Concourse G old Concourse/Pier 2 is MIA funky 1960 classic. There are still even a couple orphan gates with the original "mini-me" jet bridges and stairs to a lower area for a hard stand gate (back in the prop era). There are no amenities and it was a ghost town back in August of 2012 when we were still there. (FL). I'd like to see G the lower gates "restored" to encorporate the funky MIMO 1950's era but with all the modern bells and whistles. The last time I was in F concourse was in 1970 when we flew to MIA on National. And, I've never been on E so I can't say anything abot it. I hope by the time the central portion gets the extreme airport terminal makeover we WN have a much overdue presence at MIA!

Quoting BOACCunard (Reply 9):

The Miami International Airport HOtel was the first incorporated in the terminal hotel. It should not be demoloished instead it should get an extreme makeover. The rooftop pool and fitness facilities and Top of the Port should all be refurbished and made into a showcase. We WN could give USmerican a run for the money and be a formidable competitor and open the Miami Dade area to the WN way and keep ticket prices from becoming prohibitied which will happen with USMerican as the oligopoly at MIA. And eventually once US becomes folded into AA, they will operate out of the North terminal openening up real estate in J concourse.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlines4popo From United States of America, joined Nov 2008, 258 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 1605 times:

Quoting zippyjet (Reply 19):
We WN could give USmerican a run for the money and be a formidable competitor and open the Miami Dade area to the WN way and keep ticket prices from becoming prohibitied which will happen with USMerican as the oligopoly at MIA.

You are kidding, right? Southwest flies to FLL and on routes that I have priced, AA out of MIA is regularly lower than WN.


User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1563 times:

Terminal E- "low E" is used for AA except for E4-its used for Interjet and as on overflow for Skyking and AA
and E8 & E10-used by BA & AB. E11 used for IB & overflow for AA. It has very few amenities. "High E" is a
ghost town all the restaurants & duty free shops are closed. It's only used by Skyking & World Atlantic.
That terminal needs a complete overhaul bad.

Terminal F- has very few amenities aside from a duty free shop, Burger king and a small bar has nothing
to offer. Several different airlines use it such as Avior, Westjet, VS, SU, Inselair, Transaero & Santa barbara.
That's it for that terminal.

Terminal G- Has nothing to offer still only vending machines. Only UA & Bahamasair use it.
It needs to be demolished.

There is no way NK, B6 or WN will start flights to MIA.


User currently offlinemiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 633 posts, RR: 40
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1543 times:
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Quoting mia305 (Reply 21):

I would expect for MIA to do a redevelopment of the Central Terminal. But not until 2015, when MIA has completed plans.



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlinemiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 633 posts, RR: 40
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1540 times:
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What plan(s) do you like the most?

I like Alternative 3B and 4



Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 1534 times:

Quoting miami (Reply 22):

Unless MIA lowers its costs/fees none of LCC will fly to MIA

The central terminal will be nice once completed and will lure more
airlines. But, I doubt we will see any other LCC fly into MIA.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5402 posts, RR: 12
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1543 times:

Quoting s4popo (Reply 20):
You are kidding, right? Southwest flies to FLL and on routes that I have priced, AA out of MIA is regularly lower than WN.

Were these flights in to BWI? What other cities?

Quoting mia305 (Reply 24):
Unless MIA lowers its costs/fees none of LCC will fly to MIA

Rumor has it we (WN) and Metro Dade (authority that operates MIA) were negotiating a nice deal to get us into MIA. I know, we like the smaller LCC's go into FLL but, FLL is saturated and is now overcrowded and there is that vast market of the spread out Miami metropolitan area. FLL doesn't have the Latin American coverage that MIA has. We, WN also go into PBI so what's not stopping us from expanding our Luv into MIA?



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1530 times:

Why did WN pull out of MIA after the merger? There is no way that WN
would be able to compete against AA on their turf.


User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5402 posts, RR: 12
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1520 times:

Quoting mia305 (Reply 26):

WN never served MIA. WN had the flights. The last year or so there was only one flight to and from BWI out of MIA. MIA was one of the original Valu Jet cities. A WN presence at MIA would keep fares competitive. Otherwise once AA takes over US, prices will soar sky high.



I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1508 times:

Before the merger FL had 1 daily flight MIA-BWI. When WN merged with FL they had the flights
as you mentioned. Why did WN decide to drop it completely?

As with any merger fares are going to go up regardless.


User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 314 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 1505 times:

Would it be nice to see more LCC's in MIA.... of course. I just don't see it happening
for a while that's all.


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