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Around-the-World Routes In The 1970's  
User currently offlineTWA85 From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 224 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 6005 times:

Hello Everbody!

What were some around-the-world routes that were flown during the 1970's by airlines different from all over the world? Is there a source that provides a list of various airlines around-the-world routes in the past?

51 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6873 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5940 times:

Depends what you mean by "route".

If you mean a scheduled airliner takes off and flies all the way around the world and lands at its origin point-- those have been pretty rare.

But circa 1971 Qantas and Japan Air had route networks stretching around the world, along with Pan Am and TWA and maybe BOAC. Does that count?


User currently offlineNWOrientDC10 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1404 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5932 times:
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According to a 1970 timetable I have (Sept.1 - Oct. 24), Pan Am flight one departed LAX, flew west, and arrived at JFK with about a dozen stops along the way. Flight two departed JFK, flew east, and arrived at LAX with about the same number of stops. Maybe Pan Am operated LAX - JFK and JFK - LAX flights without fifth freedom rights.   

In 1973, the same flights still existed.

http://www.departedflights.com/PA042973p47.html

Those flights had about forty - five hours of flight time (not including layover time).  Wow!

Good Day  

Russell

[Edited 2013-03-30 13:37:10]


Things aren't always as they seem
User currently offlineTWA85 From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5865 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 1):
But circa 1971 Qantas and Japan Air had route networks stretching around the world, along with Pan Am and TWA and maybe BOAC. Does that count?

This is what I mean.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 5832 times:

Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 2):
According to a 1970 timetable I have (Sept.1 - Oct. 24), Pan Am flight one departed LAX, flew west, and arrived at JFK with about a dozen stops along the way. Flight two departed JFK, flew east, and arrived at LAX with about the same

However there was an aircraft change at least a couple of times on those flights.

Airlines I can think of that have operated around the world routes at one time or other.

Pan Am
TWA
United
JAL
Qantas
BOAC/British Airways
Air France
Air New Zealand


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3373 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5723 times:

Quoting NWOrientDC10 (Reply 2):
Maybe Pan Am operated LAX - JFK and JFK - LAX flights without fifth freedom rights.

Prior to deregulation and then the NA acquisition, PA did not operate domestic flights where they carried local traffic, except to HI & AK, IIRC.

http://www.departedflights.com/PA042973.html

http://www.departedflights.com/PA042979.html

Check out these PA route maps, one from 73 and one from 79.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3373 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5722 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Airlines I can think of that have operated around the world routes at one time or other.

Pan Am
TWA
United
JAL
Qantas
BOAC/British Airways
Air France
Air New Zealand

UTA?



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinecedars747 From Norway, joined Dec 2005, 2721 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5697 times:

Trans Mediterranean Airways (TMA) was the first all-cargo carrier to establish round the world services in both directions


Tengo una pasion por la aviacion !لدي شغف للطيران !I have a passion for aviation !
User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5608 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
UTA?

No. UTA operated from Paris to LAX via Asia & the Pacific, it did not complete the link LAX-Paris, that was AF.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5594 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 6):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Airlines I can think of that have operated around the world routes at one time or other.

Pan Am
TWA
United
JAL
Qantas
BOAC/British Airways
Air France
Air New Zealand

UTA?

Yes, forgot about them. Their around the world service was fairly brief prior to merging with AF.


User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 629 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 5565 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Airlines I can think of that have operated around the world routes at one time or other.
Quoting gemuser (Reply 8):
No. UTA operated from Paris to LAX via Asia & the Pacific, it did not complete the link LAX-Paris, that was AF.

Correct. But UTA did fly CDG - SFO - PPT - AKL - NOU - CGK - SIN - CDG (with a change of aircraft in NOU). It was defintely one of the few "around the world airlines" !
About UTA, watch this nice video : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB6W1Q_UakI&feature=player_embedded#!

About Air France : "In 1973, Air France launched a round-the-world Paris, Lima, Papeete, Tokyo, Paris route by Boeing 707. In 1989, AF offered a Paris, Los Angeles, Papeete, Tokyo, Paris service with a 747 "



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6873 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5520 times:

In 1971 PA, TWA, BOAC?, JL and QF all had round-the-world networks. Think Davies said JL quit flying transatlantic 12/72, QF ditto... around 1974? BOAC and TWA dropped the Pacific around that time? So in 1976, PA and maybe Air France-- nothing else.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5513 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 10):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Airlines I can think of that have operated around the world routes at one time or other.
Quoting gemuser (Reply 8):
No. UTA operated from Paris to LAX via Asia & the Pacific, it did not complete the link LAX-Paris, that was AF.

Correct. But UTA did fly CDG - SFO - PPT - AKL - NOU - CGK - SIN - CDG (with a change of aircraft in NOU). It was defintely one of the few "around the world airlines" !

Yes, it was the UTA service CDG-SFO-PPT I was referring to.


User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6873 posts, RR: 7
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
there was an aircraft change at least a couple of times on those [PA] flights.

No indication of that in the timetables. In prop days yes, but after 1960 the 707/747 went thru far as we can tell.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5460 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 13):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
there was an aircraft change at least a couple of times on those [PA] flights.

No indication of that in the timetables. In prop days yes, but after 1960 the 707/747 went thru far as we can tell.

I think there was still an aircraft change, except since it was the same type it probably didn't appear in their timetable.


User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 629 posts, RR: 16
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5456 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 11):
So in 1976, PA and maybe Air France-- nothing else.

Air France for sure. See my previous post (reply 10)



Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Yes, it was the UTA service CDG-SFO-PPT I was referring to.

  



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6873 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5423 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 15):
Air France for sure

What year did Air France end their RTW network?


User currently offlinetimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6873 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5418 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
I think there was still an aircraft change [on PA]

Where? Why?


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25653 posts, RR: 22
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5392 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 17):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
I think there was still an aircraft change [on PA]

Where? Why?

Probably at points like LHR or FRA and either HKG or HND/NRT, and likely to permit enough time for line maintenance. To send a 707 or 747 all the way around the world with only 60 to 90 minute en route stops might have been difficult, and would have resulted in poor on-time performance as there would have been very little time to make up for delays at earlier stops. By switching aircraft that may have been on the ground for a few hours those issues would be minimized.


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5291 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12):
Yes, it was the UTA service CDG-SFO-PPT I was referring to.

Don't remember that one. Got a rough time frame, please?

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineTWA85 From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 224 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 5139 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):

What city pairs did these airlines serve along the around the world routes?


User currently offlinegemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5714 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5054 times:

Quoting TWA85 (Reply 20):

What city pairs did these airlines serve along the around the world routes?

Qantas:
Eastward from Australia:
Southern Cross Route: SYD-NAN-HNL-SFO-IDL/JFK-LHR
Fiesta Route: SYD-NAN-PPT-ACA-MEX-NAS-Bermuda-LHR

Westward from Australia:
Kangaroo Route: SYB/BNE/PER//DRW/later MEL to SIN via JKT/DPS & non stop. From SIN via KUL/BKK/CCU/DEL/BOM to the Middle East mainly BAH but included DAM/THR & others. Then to Europe including (at various times, never all these at once) IST, ATH, FCO, Belgrade, VIE, FRA, PAR & AMS ( FRA being the only current port, although not for long unless there is a change of heart) then on to LHR, & for a short while MAN.

All three routes met at LHR.

Gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 629 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4904 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 16):
What year did Air France end their RTW network?

The Tokyo-Papeete-Lima leg closed on 10 January 1977.



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3373 posts, RR: 5
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 4833 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 10):
- AKL - NOU - CGK - SIN - CDG

According to departed flights this Thurs only service ran PPT-AKL-NOU-CGK-SIN-BAH-CDG 5 stops on a 742 UT/AF

http://www.departedflights.com/PPT83p1.html

I know UT operated a NRT-NOU flight, where did that aircraft come from? At any point did they operate NRT-CDG, or NRT-PPT?



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineClipper002 From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 679 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4572 times:

Quoting timz (Reply 17):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 14):
I think there was still an aircraft change [on PA]

Where? Why?

Probably at points like LHR or FRA and either HKG or HND/NRT, and likely to permit enough time for line maintenance. To send a 707 or 747 all the way around the world with only 60 to 90 minute en route stops might have been difficult, and would have resulted in poor on-time performance as there would have been very little time to make up for delays at earlier stops. By switching aircraft that may have been on the ground for a few hours those issues would be minimized.

Actually we did use the same aircraft all the way around the world. We would use a plane fresh out of a maintenance check and fly it JFK/BDA/JFK in the morning arriving back at JFK at 1605 LT. That would allow just under 3 hours to correct any mechanical issues that cropped up on the first flight. Then it would depart as flt 002 at 1900 LT that evening. Most stops were for at least 2 hours. These particular flights had configurations that were peculiar to the RTW service. In the 707 the a/c was in a 32/97 configuration. Since we only had a fairly small number of a/c configured this way it was virtually impossible to swap out at enroute stops all the way around the world.

Ed



Ed
25 Viscount724 : I believe UTA obtained CDG-SFO-PPT rights in 1986 following a French government policy change that permitted privately-owned UTA to compete with then
26 Viscount724 : Interesting. Thanks for the history. Were Pan Am's DC-8s ever used on the RTW service?
27 Azure : UTA never operated NRT-CDG (nor NRT-PPT). IIRC NOU - NRT was operated with the DC10-30 that came from LAX - PPT - AKL and later from SFO - PPT - AKL.
28 Post contains links Viscount724 : Took a look at UTA's June 1979 timetable here. See page 5 (click pages to enlarge). http://timetableimages.com/ttimages/ut2/ut79/ At that time it loo
29 RWA380 : I was almost 100% positive someone before TN had operated a NRT-PPT n/s
30 AR385 : I always wondered about that route. Of course the ACA stop was because of the altitude at MEX but was it ever profitable? I would have loved to have
31 Post contains images gemuser : Who knows? I doubt it, but then fares were high, so again who knows? Only south bound was ACA necessary for technical reasons, but QF chose to stop b
32 Azure : Thanks ! You are correct : AF did in the 70s (see my previous posts)
33 RWA380 : OK, Yes, thank you very much for the information, I am not as familiar with French Aviation as I am US, so your insight and informative posts have fi
34 timz : I remember reading some mention (around 1963) that the US wasn't allowing QF the frequency they wanted; Fiesta route started 1964 or 1965. Public tim
35 timz : I'll check, but I'm guessing a public timetable from circa 1965 will show half the stops an hour or less.
36 PanHAM : BOAC was mentioned I think but no routing. Must have been LHR NYC SFO HNL NAN SYD SIN CCU CAI LHR, although I have in my memory that they also flew fr
37 Post contains links Viscount724 : I can't find any timetables from that period but it's my recollection that QFdid in fact stop at ACA in both directions for most if not all of their
38 TWA85 : Do any of these airlines that are still operating today still have the rights to fly these routes if they wished to reume these routes?
39 Viscount724 : I expect they all do. Airlines rarely give up rights once they're obtained.
40 TWA85 : I have never understood why airlines have stopped flying these routes. Yes larger aircraft with longer range have become available. However... Wouldn
41 thegoldenargosy : April 29, 1973 Pan Am 1 Los Angeles - Honolulu - Tokyo - Hong Kong - Bangkok - Delhi - (Karachi or Tehran depending on the day of the week) - Beirut -
42 gemuser : This is the first comment I have ever heard that suggested that ACA was not normally a stop in each direction. Every public timetable I have seen bet
43 Viscount724 : Makes more sense to use your alliance partners to serve those points now. Fifth freedom revenues are rarely very profitable.
44 rocket45 : Rocket45 Around the world in 7 days on TWA in 1971. Day 1 -ORD-JFK 727 ORD-ROM 747 that diverted to BOS due to bomb threat. Passengers slept in closed
45 mozart : Fascinating thread! Thanks to everybody for contributing Surely those 707s made some tech stops between Paris and Lima and between Tokyo and Paris. An
46 Post contains links and images Azure : Certainly, Monsieur ! The route to Lima depended on the day of departure. For instance, in 1974 : Wednesday : Paris CDG - Pointe à Pitre (Guadeloupe
47 TWA85 : Is it very hard these days for a unalligned airline like Air Asia to obtain fifth freedom rights to begin around the world service?
48 AR385 : In the 80s the also did Paris CDG-Cayenne-MAO-LIM with a 747
49 Post contains links Viscount724 : JAL used DC-8s, routing HND-HNL-SFO-JFK-LHR, and then their various routings LHR-HND via Asia. JAL's routing between HND and LHR via the U.S. was ide
50 timz : Apparently not-- the 12/64 OAG and several more thru 1971 show stops at ACA both ways. Like he said, the DC-8-62 flew Tokyo to London via SFO-JFK; as
51 kellmark : This is a great thread that brings back some great memories. I flew PA2 twice all the way around, once in 1971, and once in 1973. When I flew it in 1
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