Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
United Ground Employees Vote No!  
User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1099 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 15123 times:

United's ramp,ticket agents and store employees all have voted no to a tentative contract agreement with the IAM..with very little job protection its no surprise!

http://www.iam141.mobi/news.html


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
131 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinesulley From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 524 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 14923 times:

Excellent (and not surprising) news.


In thrust we trust!
User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2725 posts, RR: 34
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14490 times:

Glad this failed. The contract was garbage.


No info
User currently offlinezippyjet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 5401 posts, RR: 12
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14464 times:

Cool! Because if they passed it, other airlines would take notice and we'd all be thrown under the landing gear!


I'm Zippyjet & I approve of this message!
User currently offlineVonRichtofen From Canada, joined Nov 2000, 4626 posts, RR: 37
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14422 times:

Can somebody give us some coles notes on what the rejected contract offer was?


Word
User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2725 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 14318 times:

Quoting VonRichtofen (Reply 4):

Per the effective date (4/1/13) all but 16 stations would be eligible for outsourcing. Those 16 protected stations would be eligible for outsourcing effective 4/1/16 except LAX IAH DEN SFO ORD EWR IAD.

That was the deal breaker for me.

The pay would stay the same for me (they copied the sCO pay scale) so it didn't bother me. Although we would have lost our yearly pay raises for inflation. Instead we would receive one lump pay increase in 2016. At CO you received a pay raise every June of 2% to account for inflation and cost of living increases.



No info
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 4690 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14014 times:

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 5):
Those 16 protected stations would be eligible for outsourcing effective 4/1/16 except LAX IAH DEN SFO ORD EWR IAD.

Wow! Are you actually suggesting that come 2016 UA could outsource every station except for its hubs?

I understand why that got a no vote, then.

In all seriousness, why did IAM even agree to put this to a vote? Was it just to send a message to management?



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinestyle From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13925 times:

The IAM is also to blame for the way this agreement was structured. I have a friend in iah who works on the Ramp for the CO side and he says a lot of them are upset at the IAM and not the company for dividing the work groups even more by giving different signing bonuses (which the union conveniently called retro pay) to each subsidiary.

He says the sub-UA employees are upset that certain healthcare plans will be gone and that they haven't been made whole going all the way back to 2005.

The sub-CO people are upset that their pay rates wouldn't even go up in some instances and a 3 year pay freeze until April 2016, and then 2.5% increase. Like a previous poster stated, the sub-CO side has traditionally gotten 2.5% increases every year (during good years), so this pay freeze after the initial bump left some people scratching their heads.

The icing on top for voting no was the huge payday the pilots got, he says a lot of people were insulted by this after the pilots got soo much in their agreement.


User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2725 posts, RR: 34
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13881 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 6):
Wow! Are you actually suggesting that come 2016 UA could outsource every station except for its hubs?

I'm not suggesting it, that's what was written in the proposed contract.

Whether or not they'd outsource every station is debatable and uncertain, but the company would have no contractual obligation to it's employees to keep them. Not much security in that. All the company would be required to do for us is provide 90 days notice they are outsourcing the work. Oh and give us furlough pay.



No info
User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 4690 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13831 times:

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 8):
I'm not suggesting it, that's what was written in the proposed contract.

Sorry, poor choice of language by me. I was just checking that I'd read what you had written correctly.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlinemalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3316 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13763 times:

I have some friends at UA and one big deal breaker for them was now having to pay Health Insurance, they currently get free family medical and dental HMO as an option. but the new agreement had them paying maybe now $500 to $800 a month for a family. Id hate to be in that position


There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlinecoairman From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 13735 times:

I think the base hourly pay is relatively low in relation to WN's $26/hour wages plus UA is forcing CO's relatively expensive health insurance plans into the new UA. Paying $200/ mo for a crappy Kaiser HMO for two people is not good verses Almost free for pre merger UA now. Plus as noted above, dividing the s-Ua and s-co compensation. I think the IAM IS CLUELESS as to what it's members want. Very sad and unacceptable.


Patience Can Be A Virtue.
User currently offlineHSVflier From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 118 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13706 times:

Quoting malaysia (Reply 10):
I have some friends at UA and one big deal breaker for them was now having to pay Health Insurance, they currently get free family medical and dental HMO as an option. but the new agreement had them paying maybe now $500 to $800 a month for a family. Id hate to be in that position

Like the rest of America? No wonder the US airlines cant compete. Big overhead due to unions and subpar product compared to european and Middle eastern airlines. Another reason im going back to Delta, less union power.



Flown DL, UA, CO, WN, LH, TZ, WO, AA, US, LO, HA, PX, NW, KE, AB, QR, LX, EE, 5Y
User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2725 posts, RR: 34
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13676 times:

Here's the exact wording of the Job Security subpart.




No info
User currently offlineT5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 508 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13651 times:

This is what this garbage is all about:

This TA was garbage from the start. This TA was divisive from the start. It allowed outsourcing except at the 7 hubs till 2016. Express work in the hubs till 2016. Some of the larger stations would be outsourced at that 2016 date like BOS; CLE; etc. In other words: NO SCOPE AT ALL! This would have opened the door for a bad situation for every carrier. Everybody can't move or bump into a hub like ORD or EWR.

Since sUA haven't had a raise since their contract (IAM) and we (sCO) were under the IBT contract, we are supposed to get our last raise for 2013 at 2.5%. So they wanted to use our raise as the bar to set the new scale. But sCO would lose their 1.00 Market Override which was "red circled" in the contract for high cost of living cities. And no raises till 2015 @6%. Bottom line was sCO employees were gaining nothing from this contract. It was a pay cut for a lot of people, myself included. Plus it had "protection dates" which had neglected a lot of people. Good scope like WN would avoid having job protection dates. It's not all about the money..........

The medical was supposed to be based on the deal that the pilots got. But as it will turn out, our costs would be much higher. (IMHO the free medical that sUA got would be lost in any deal anyway)

The company gave a signing bonus of 130 million which was clearly stated as a "signing bonus" in the LOA, but since they did not negotiate retro for sUA, the IAM wanted to dress this payment up as retro for them while sCO only will get 1 percent, and ATO on the sCO side would get 3 percent. That was another bone of contention.

Passenger Service had their own issues like they would create another classification to assist the agents upstairs with a scale between 9 to 15 (top) an hour. That position would undercut and undermine their jobs.

The vote was happened in a very short timeframe (9 days) since the company wanted this done by April 1. A lot of people did not receive their ballots. The company needs this integration (from all of the workgroups), but it won't happen anytime soon.

This deal had to fail, and they have to go back to the table. SCOPE & MEDICAL were and still is the two most important issues that we wanted to be dealt with. We're not a bankrupt carrier, but the're negotiating like we are. We're not asking for the moon, just to protect our jobs from all of these beancounters.



A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
User currently offlineT5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 508 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13631 times:

Oh, and I forgot about the Seniority issue. The IAM passed it over to an arbitrator and should be decided by the 15th of April. Well after the contract ratification. That's a no vote right there as well.

The only thing we have in this industry is our SENIORITY.



A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1787 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13547 times:

I'm leery anytime the union and the company are both pointing out how great a deal they struck. A great deal never fully satisfies both sides at the table. Only one can view it as great.


The only valid opinions are those based in facts
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1602 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 13437 times:

So how long for a "good" contract ?? 2 to 3 years ??

User currently offlineSilver1SWA From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 4737 posts, RR: 26
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 13396 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 14):
We're not a bankrupt carrier, but the're negotiating like we are. We're not asking for the moon, just to protect our jobs from all of these beancounters.

Hey this sounds familiar. Welcome to the club!  



ALL views, opinions expressed are mine ONLY and are NOT representative of those shared by Southwest Airlines Co.
User currently offlineCOEWR787 From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 334 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 12847 times:

Quoting HSVflier (Reply 12):
Like the rest of America? No wonder the US airlines cant compete. Big overhead due to unions and subpar product compared to european and Middle eastern airlines. Another reason im going back to Delta, less union power.

Oddly enough the only place they seem to make a killing competing is on the International Routes. It is in the Domestic sector that they have difficulty making money, except of course the couple of known exceptions, a sector where there is no European and Middle Eastern carriers to contend with.


User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 781 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11609 times:

Quoting Reply 7):
The IAM is also to blame for the way this agreement was structured. I have a friend in iah who works on the Ramp for the SA)">CO side and he says a lot of them are upset at the IAM and not the company for dividing the work groups even more by giving different signing bonuses (which the union conveniently called retro pay) to each subsidiary.

He says the sub-UA employees are upset that certain healthcare plans will be gone and that they haven't been made whole going all the way back to 2005.

The sub-CO people are upset that their pay rates wouldn't even go up in some instances and a 3 year pay freeze until April 2016, and then 2.5% increase. Like a previous poster stated, the sub-CO side has traditionally gotten 2.5% increases every year (during good years), so this pay freeze after the initial bump left some people scratching their heads

First of all sCO ramp agents have a contract that they ratified with the Teamsters and Continental back in December 2010 and sCO ramp agents have been making $2 dollars more per hour than their counterparts at sUA since that date while doing the SAME job. sSA)">UA ramp employees have been with out a contract since January 1, 2010 and sUA employees did not get a dime or a signing bonus when sCO ramp agents ratified their contract in December of 2010. So it is to be expected that sUA ramp agents would get a bigger retro check than sCO ramp because any raise that they get in a new contract has be be retroactive back to January 1, 2010. To be absolutely truthful if United wanted to be a @$$ they could easily say sCO ramp agents are not entitled to a retro check or a signing bonus because at all. You might ask WHY?? it is because ALL sCO ramp agents are under an existing contract with the company that does not expire till July 1, 2013.

And actually sUA employees have not been made whole since 2002 when sUA under bankruptcy forced ramp agents to take $5 dollar an hour pay cut among other things (I won't go into details about all the sacrifices ramp employees and their families had to make when SA)">UA went into bankruptcy) What happened in 2005 was the company went to court to have all contracts (including pilots, FA, customer service, ramp, RES, stores and maintenance) extended for another 4 years because United claimed they didn't have money to give all of these employe groups raises. So sUA ramp agents have been making the amount of money we have been making since 2002.

United employees are not asking for much we are just asking for our fair share we are asking that the company acknowledge our sacrifices made during all those difficult years. Every since the company emerged from bankruptcy management has not only given themselves raises that have split millions of dollars in bonuses. As the cost of living started to really increase in 2007-2008-2009 I saw employees starting to work 12 hour days multiple days a week to make ends meet. When the financial crisis hit in 2010 and many employees spouses lost their jobs in other fields some United employees had no choice but to work everyday up to 16 hours a day just to be able to provide for their family and keep a roof over their children's head and food on the table. We have had here at O'Hare multiple employees since 2010 have massive strokes, heart attacks, we have people literally die (drop dead on the ramp) because they were the only provider in family who still had a job and to make it they had worked so many hours every day that they literally just dropped dead while at work. All the while people in positions of management from mid level position to the CEO gave themselves raises that totaled in the millions and retired (upper level management) with golden parachutes.

After reading the contract I knew it was trash instead of SA)">UA giving back the $5 dollars per hour that they took from Ramp and customer service agents they only offered a $3 dollar per hour raise then a pay freeze for the next 3 years followed by some crazy bonus. The contract also would leave about 16 medium size stations unprotected come 2016 and that would allow the company if United so decided to contract out the work performed at those stations and no one want to see that happen. A contract is a compromise and the employees are willing to compromise on certain issues but there are certain issues that we can not compromise on.

No one here at United wants to see the company go back into bankruptcy but it is time for United to acknowledge what their non-managenet employees have had to endure financially especially since 2007 when the cost of living really started to rise and give us what we are owed that is all.


User currently offlinegreaser From Bahamas, joined Jan 2004, 1092 posts, RR: 4
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 11334 times:

Quoting HSVflier (Reply 12):
Big overhead due to unions and subpar product compared to european and Middle eastern airlines.

Two Issues: I dont think anyone on this forum wishes for ground staff to be compensated in the same manner that the Middle East airports compensate their ground staff, who comprise mostly of foreign nationals from the Indian subcontinent.

Second, you're sick of unions and so Europe is your natural alternate?



Now you're really flying
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16934 posts, RR: 48
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9503 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 22):
No one here at United wants to see the company go back into bankruptcy but it is time for United to acknowledge what their non-managenet employees have had to endure financially especially since 2007

Is it though? What leverage do ground employees have? Any strike would mean the outsourcing would happen faster and more broadly.

Quoting HSVflier (Reply 12):
Like the rest of America? No wonder the US airlines cant compete. Big overhead due to unions and subpar product compared to european and Middle eastern airlines. Another reason im going back to Delta, less union power.

It makes you wonder--I get consistently excellent customer service from Lowe's, Starbucks, even Kroger lately, and Skywest flight attendants run circles around UA mainline FAs--and they're paid nothing to do umpteen hops a day in a relatively brutal schedule. I can count on UA gate agents, however, to consistently go out of their way to make life difficult. They're like Lily Tomlin's phone company carrier character, "I just found your reservation, and I deleted it. Cuz I can."

[Edited 2013-03-31 16:12:37]


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineramprat74 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1488 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9844 times:

I haven't had a raise since April 26th, 2009. I can live with the top out pay they offered. Just give some kind of cost of living raise every year. I don't care for them calling the retro pay, a signing bonus. That means it will be gift taxed! I don't like the language about how can they can outsource 50 small line stations the day the contract is signed, and another 16 medium line stations after December 31, 2016. I loved the paragraph about if there isn't a signed contract by 11:00pm Central time on December 31st, 2016. The paragraph about the 16 line stations is voided. I been with United since before ESOP. Not one contract has been ratified on the expiration date ever! We always had to wait 2-3 years for a new contract.

User currently offlinestyle From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2006, 263 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 9799 times:

Quoting HSVflier (Reply 12):

Who says US Arlines can't compete? Are you really trying to compare a Middle East carrier that is heavily subsidized by the oil rich nation it serves to DL, UA, or AA? If you want to go down the Europe route, look into how often LH or TP or AZ are on a strike or wok slowdown.

Like another poster stated, both the company and union need to make adjustments to get a fair contract for both but this one simply didn't do it for the employees.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 22):

Please do not forget this also applies to above the wing employees on the s-CO side that feel insulted by the disparity of the signing bonus. S-CO above the wing was not represented by a union up until this point and I can tell you many of them looked at this contract and were amazed that they would be paying union dues for things they already had.

Here's my take: Shame on the IAM and shame on UA management for presenting such a deal to its Ramp and Ticket Agents.


25 MaverickM11 : I don't know how to phrase this nicely, but why? UA is full of people who HATE their job and their airline but are hanging on FOREVER. AA too. Why st
26 ramprat74 : Because I still enjoy doing the job, and working along side the same people for half my life.
27 MaverickM11 : Fair enough. Are you worried the long term trend is probably to outsource most, if not all of these jobs?
28 FlyPNS1 : I think for many they are trapped. If you're 45+ years old and have spent your whole career as a flight attendant, ramper or gate agent, you're in a
29 beachbum1970 : You must have never worked for an airline before. We stay because we've invested so much of our time and energy, basically our whole lives, into buil
30 MaverickM11 : I've worked for several, from the ramp to HQ and everywhere in between. Loved them all, and when I started to hate one, I left and got a better job.
31 F9animal : I cant believe the IAM reached a TA with that bullcrap! Someone is getting stroked. Did the IAM think you guys would vote in favor of this?!! I admit,
32 MaverickM11 : Because anyone looking for job security in a low skilled position in the airline industry is bound to find the Easter bunny first...
33 T5towbar : So just let it become a revolving door no benefit, no pay job then? While management keeps getting bonus after bonus? Jeff already got paid a 14 mill
34 jetmatt777 : On the internal website, the company posted a short article about this on Saturday. The "article rating" feature had around 50 votes averaging 4.5 sta
35 MaverickM11 : It just seems inevitable; NW 86ed their mechanics pretty easily, I'm not sure how ground employees have more leverage than mechanics. You're showin'
36 T5towbar : Just noticed that one as well. I also loved the little line: "We believe these tentative agreements are in the best interests of our co-workers and t
37 Fiveholer : The company simply doesn't care about the frontline. The people with pride who do the grunt work efficiently and safely. Welcome to my RR list.
38 shuttle9juliet : I find it pathetic..All big company's nowadays, Airlines included just want to outsource,outsource,outsource. It is becoming a common trend but the un
39 MaverickM11 : They don't care about the passengers as it is! I think carriers realize they can get crappy customer service from outsourced agents just as easily as
40 style : Quoting F9animal (Reply 33): How can anyone suggest just finding a new job? Because anyone looking for job security in a low skilled position in the
41 shuttle9juliet : I can partially agree with you on that one, but you have to ask the question, is why has the staff morale got so low in years? I guess after years of
42 Fiveholer : I don't want the sky, I want to keep the job I have and continue to to enjoy coming to work at an ungodly hour to do it.
43 Post contains links MaverickM11 : Southwest Airlines Ground Employees Picket At DAL (by MaverickM11 Mar 29 2013 in Civil Aviation) UA frontline staff is not winning any awards, and out
44 shuttle9juliet : You will never get anybody being 100% happy in a job
45 lucky777 : And there you have it. You tried to hold out as long as you could with your earlier comments/critiques but you finally went ahead and bit the bullet
46 MaverickM11 : You have to admit, the link between customer service and outsourcing is comical. I'm pretty sure the DOT stats back that up. You're sensing concern w
47 dlramp4life : So what does this mean for cities like PHX where there are PMUA employees and DGS employees working UA flights?
48 crj900lr : You are correct there has been no improvement on safety, and I believe we may be talking about the same thing. Although it is stressed, nothing is re
49 lucky777 : Actually, i have to admit no such thing. You are the one who has proposed that there is no discernible difference between outsourced work and those w
50 N353SK : United tracks "customer satisfaction" chart on an internal website. For February (most recent month available), the percentage of satisfied customers
51 MaverickM11 : There are so many more variables that go into that though, and don't customers on those flights have contact with UA employees at least on the hub en
52 N353SK : Again, the percentage of satisfied customers on domestic mainline flights was double that of outsourced express flights. This is too big of a gap to
53 T5towbar : That's true. But it seems like the district didn't care. Dues are the same for part-time and full-time employees. That's true at IAD as well. Air Wis
54 ThreeWests : As a contract ramper, I worked most of the shifts I was assigned, sometimes reported to work on time, and was shortly promoted to supervisor. When the
55 N353SK : And I'm guessing you didn't lose it due to performance factors, either. Probably because it was cheaper to "re-hire" people at a different company at
56 MaverickM11 : The product difference is night and day, so there's no way to ascribe the difference to an outsourced gate agent. At UA for example, explus is a comp
57 RDH3E : That's false. below...RJ's will get lower scores, in addition UAX flights are cancelled prior to mainline so that also plays a factor. Can anyone fro
58 T5towbar : Well you have to remember that sCO pilots had the most restrictive scope in the industry, so there were no 76 seaters at all. So all XE have is 50 se
59 N353SK : Rampers, even in outstations, used to make $15-20 per hour, with great benefits, a pension, and very good nonrev travel privileges. They viewed their
60 bobnwa : Can you verify that managemen other than very few managers keep getting these bonuses
61 MaverickM11 : Yes but that's not really relevant--the regional product at CO and UA (and at most carriers, maybe less so at DL and AS) is dreadful to begin with, e
62 RDH3E : I'm saying that the rampers that work for OO/MQ etc do a mighty fine job. Of course you mean 70 seaters. 76 seaters were just agreed to in the new pi
63 slider : As crudely as you put it, I'd amend that statement to just simply say that JOB SECURITY ANYWHERE IS A MYTH. Period. This whole discussion about job s
64 dlramp4life : Thank you for the info. My next question would be any idea when these stations will all be fully insourced?
65 swa4life : To say that the ramp is a low skilled position depends on how you look at it. Firstly, working ramp is not for everyone. At the height of the unemplo
66 Post contains images RDH3E : And you guys claim you don't have hubs....
67 coairman : I strongly disagree. I find in general, mainline employees to be more professional, proficient, knowledgable and have more of a professional appearan
68 FlyPNS1 : They helped the more senior employees. If the employees had no job security provisions at all or concept of seniority, then the airline could have ju
69 crj900lr : I'm calling B.S on this. As bad a some contract companies are there is no way that you would continue to be employed even at the new company with an
70 jetmatt777 : I worked for a contract company before getting on at a mainline carrier. The carrier we worked for dumped our contract company, the new company came
71 crj900lr : I work with several contract companies that are contracted to preform below the wing work for the airline I work for and for the most part the contrac
72 swa4life : I feel like the airline itself often doesn't even realize what they're losing with a contractor. The problem is that by standing aside with a clip bo
73 crj900lr : I voice my opinion and provide the reports, that's about the only thing I can do. You are right it's only a day or 2 at this station or a day or 2 at
74 Post contains images MaverickM11 : Touche. But in this and many other similar cases it's decades of unions trying to stand neck deep in the waves commanding the tide to turn around lik
75 rising : You're one tough customer (and employee) to satisfy! It's been my experience that, in general, you get out of things what you think you're going to g
76 FlyDeltaJets : People consistantly dog frontline customer service and ramp as a low skill position. The amount of training a customer service agent has to go through
77 swa4life : Well I'll put it this way. Working ramp, customer service, or operations is no less skilled than a flight attendant who for what ever reason are place
78 RDH3E : They could not do this. What would happen would be the employees would sue for age discrimination which is protected. Likely the employer would be fo
79 swa4life : Also as far as "entry level", what does that mean if you really think about it. If entry level is defined as a job that you're hired immediately into,
80 United_fan : Welcome to the real world . At my company $800+ a month is employee contribution for a family plan.
81 ThreeWests : I understand why you'd call B.S. It was inconceivable to me also, until I lived it. In three years I never received a raise, worked split shifts, all
82 MaverickM11 : It's pretty black and white. You may not think it's entry level but every company does. ...where he starts again at the bottom, because it's seniorit
83 NWAESC : Not on straight time, they weren't... ..And that's all that needs to be said... There's no shortage of people that think you're (we're) little more t
84 United_fan : That is for the top-tier family plan.
85 beachbum1970 : Then why did you quit your ramp job? Why not stand up for you and your co-workers and try to make your company a better place to work at? Join a nego
86 RDH3E : Because you often get better pay and a better work environment within weeks by changing jobs, but a decade by hanging around an airline. Not worth it
87 jayunited : The work environment is what you make it. There are people who have amazing jobs that pay them a 6 figure salaries and they still are not happy. I ha
88 beachbum1970 : Really? In todays economy? And in the airline industry, you start back at the bottom for pay. Even worse, you could end up being on a "b-scale" or "c
89 Post contains images MaverickM11 : I'm trying to picture how long any of that would have lasted an an express carrier in 2001, post 9/11
90 NWAESC : Still ridiculous... +1 ...Or you can just throw in the towel, then spend tons of bandwidth on an internet site trying to rationalize your choice...
91 bobnwa : I really doubt that managers gave themselves raises at UA
92 coairman : I disagree that frontline airline customer service is an unskilled position. In the case of United's shares, it takes years of experience to be profic
93 RDH3E : If you take a step back though and look at a "job" in a larger sense, there are plenty of jobs where the work environment is actually terrible and it
94 Post contains images FriendlySkies : If you think airline customer service is bad now, start paying front line employees minimum wage with no benefits and see what happens. Yeah, there a
95 bobnwa : jayunited said it and he should clarify what he meant
96 United_fan : Tell me about it....that's the car-biz.
97 jayunited : I don't need to clarify what I said because you took what I said out of context and completely cut the sentence up to try and make a useless point to
98 strfyr51 : On average the most SENIOR employees were all United. While I think NOW the former CO management might have liked the idea except that we all lost ou
99 MaverickM11 : I don't have to rationalize anything--I loved being a ramper but I knew a) the future was only going to bring cuts and reductions, and I was right an
100 RDH3E : Welcome to Continental Airlines.
101 SonomaFlyer : I take it this malaise set in after Gordon left re: headquarters?
102 bobnwa : Yes I do know it Howerver many members of Anet do not know, and make that claim regularly on here
103 MaverickM11 : The very top management is majority CO, but the HQ has gotta be north of 90% UA, so whatever you want to call that. People are always going to bemoan
104 Post contains images COSPN : Guam is one of the places they want to outsource, there is no such thing as "unemployment Insurance" in Guam so when they cut heads you go to the stre
105 RDH3E : I'm not sure if you actually work here or not, but it doesn't seem like you do from this statement. If you were an employee you'd know that HR publis
106 MaverickM11 : Still sounds overwhelmingly sUA, and that includes IAH does it not? I imagine considering only downtown Chicago further widens the gap.
107 COSPN : 4 HQ's that explains some of our problems... make it 5 for Guam we have our own HQ GO in Guam for , I dont see how this saves money.. the 5 HQ's need
108 MaverickM11 : I thought it was all merged onto one certificate?
109 COSPN : Yes but there are still 3 subs s/CMI (Guam) s/UA and s/CO all have separate work contracts, HR, Accounting, Payroll, Upper Management, IT, Insurance,
110 malaysia : but some new positions in Guam are now under the "New United" such as international accounting etc.
111 beachbum1970 : Just curious, if the ramp/CS tentative agreement had passed, would the new contract have let Guam employees bump/transfer within the UA/CO system, in
112 RDH3E : It does not include IAH or ORD. I included only HQ locations, HDQ, HQJ, HQS and WHQ. If you include management personel across all locations, s-CO is
113 MaverickM11 : I meant the Houston HQ locations--just looking at the downtown Chicago HQ it's pretty minimally CO. Very few people moved up to begin with.
114 Post contains images RDH3E : Then you get to about 17%, but I think you're skewing the data to fit your hypothesis if you have to go that far to get an answer you like. Also keep
115 MaverickM11 : I don't think so, it's pretty straight forward--if you look at who is running the airline from HQ (because the Houston and Elk Grove offices are pret
116 strfyr51 : With the IAM covering Ramp, Customer Service, Tower and Ground Equipment? What is the company going to DO actually?? They couldn't even push back an
117 delta2ual : Wow. That seems awfully high. Does your company pay any of portion of your insurance? Well said. Believe it or not, many hiring managers (myself incl
118 COSPN : Yes it would all would be under one Senority list s/CMI s/CO s/UA all the same..However s/CMI should have been "blended" into s/CO long ago..the 25K
119 Antoniemey : Even if a company in-sourced a station, they would have to hire on a significant number of the people working for the contractor. I imagine that they
120 RDH3E : Exactly. CO got significantly less value from their employees on an overall per-head metric. The CO headcount was bloated, and so is the new UA. Oper
121 Antoniemey : Maybe... but since CO had not outsourced all of its Ticket and Gate agents in express-only cities the way UA had, it could be argued that they were s
122 RDH3E : This is from the Merger announcement to Continental employees (emphasis mine): "United also brings many strengths to the new airline, including a glo
123 COSPN : I think CO/CMI had 2 many managers we have 4 layers in Guam alone .. Guam could be run by a GM (and a assistant) and supervisors.. we don't need a GM
124 usflyer msp : PMUA's computer systems were far superior to PMCO's and allowed them to get more done with fewer employees. For example,PMUA usually had 1 agent work
125 AADC10 : I guess UA is going down the road of "Wal-Martization" where frontline labor costs are only something to be reduced. Grocery workers used to have midd
126 COSPN : Yes really sad, problem is UA operates in " super High cost areas" SFO ORD EWR LAX HNL GUM DEN, IAD so walmart wages wont work..If you want people wit
127 Antoniemey : Or the ASM difference balanced out in UA's favor. They did have a much larger international reach overall. Or it's none of the above. It's pretty wel
128 COSPN : well CO did not have crappy 744's that can only fly from SFO
129 Post contains images EaglePower83 : Nice rebuttle.
130 Post contains images MaverickM11 : This all bodes real well for future job stability for ground employees UA has been down that road for the better part of a decade. They would have ou
131 FlyDeltaJets : 747's fly out of ORD and LAX as well, not understanding how that even relates to the discussion.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Southwest Airlines Ground Employees Picket At DAL posted Fri Mar 29 2013 07:50:49 by MaverickM11
US F/A's Vote No posted Fri Mar 30 2012 14:53:57 by Xcltflyboy
Air Canada Ground Employees Walk Off Job At YYZ posted Thu Mar 22 2012 20:06:45 by lnglive1011yyz
Southwest Mechs Vote NO! posted Tue Feb 21 2012 22:49:47 by DC9Fixer
Delta To Give All Ground Employees Raises In '12 posted Thu Dec 15 2011 16:30:49 by cokepopper
Northwest Pilots Vote `no Confidence' posted Tue Jun 19 2007 08:01:50 by Rsmith6621a
Pilots Vote 'no Confidence' In NWA Execs posted Sun Jun 17 2007 00:04:39 by Xbraniffone
Northwest Ground Employees At BIS Lose Jobs Nov 28 posted Sun Aug 13 2006 01:25:03 by KarlB737
AC Pilots Vote NO To 777/787 posted Sun Jun 19 2005 01:43:50 by Lazionic
Continental Flight Attendants Vote No On Cuts posted Thu Mar 31 2005 14:52:56 by ContinentalFan