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AA Possible New Routes And Upgrades  
User currently offlineDeltaXNA From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 220 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16239 times:

What routes will possibly get upgrades to mainline from eagle over the summer?

What cities and routes will they possibly add?

Will any existing mainline routes get larger upgrades?

So far there
DFW-LBB and DFW-CRP

Also, ORD-IND

[Edited 2013-03-30 16:00:19]

96 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1968 posts, RR: 21
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 16199 times:

Quoting DeltaXNA (Thread starter):
What routes will possibly get upgrades to mainline from eagle over the summer?

Most probably not this summer, but at some point I'd love for AA mainline to return to CVG         


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4076 posts, RR: 8
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15913 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 1):
Most probably not this summer, but at some point I'd love for AA mainline to return to CVG

I think the writing is on the wall for that. AA will soon have the critical mass to support mainline flights to basically every major market in the country, especially to overpriced legacy hubs like CVG where they won't have to undercut fares by much if at all...


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15835 times:

Also announced:
SAN-MIA
ORD-PDX


User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3201 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 15682 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Maybe not an upgrade, but I'd love to see MYR-DFW and ISP service come back with the merger

[Edited 2013-03-30 18:10:39]


\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineANA787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 15597 times:

Maybe PDX-JFK and PDX-MIA.

User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3159 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15282 times:

I'd like to see a return of SJC-JFK and SJC-BOS, but unfortunately am not holding my breath.

Likewise, with the A319 I'd like to see DFW-OAK, DFW-BUR, DFW-LGB, DFW-BFL, DFW-SBA, DFW-BOI, DFW-GEG and a seasonal DFW-BLI. But again, I'm not holding my breath.


User currently offlinestevemat11 From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 6 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15223 times:

ISP would be interesting. I hear PenAir is to start service back on the old Eagle route(from BizEx), ISP-BOS. With US feed flying PHL and DCA, maybe post merger ISP will see more service.

User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3332 posts, RR: 45
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15147 times:

Still waiting on AUS-MIA...many years later.

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlinelat41 From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 473 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15123 times:

Perhaps AA will look at returning to PVD as there was some rumbling in the past to that effect. A large pool of Southern NE population and businesses awaits. Given the battering AA has taken at BOS to the North, it may be a way to recapture lost passengers.

User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5472 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15096 times:

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 8):
Still waiting on AUS-MIA...many years later.

I was saying the same thing about SAN (to MIA) up until about a month ago, so don't give up -- keep the faith! I honestly expect AUS will be the next mainline route to be added from AA's S Florida hub.

bb


User currently offlineMiami From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 1559 posts, RR: 51
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 15082 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I'm still waiting for AA to launch NRT-MIA.


Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1968 posts, RR: 21
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 14993 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 2):
Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 1):
Most probably not this summer, but at some point I'd love for AA mainline to return to CVG

I think the writing is on the wall for that. AA will soon have the critical mass to support mainline flights to basically every major market in the country, especially to overpriced legacy hubs like CVG where they won't have to undercut fares by much if at all...

You would think with 6-7 daily ERJ's on CVG-DFW it would be a prime candidate for an upgauge to mainline, but I've been waiting for quite a while, here's to hoping though!


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7757 posts, RR: 18
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 14617 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 12):
You would think with 6-7 daily ERJ's on CVG-DFW it would be a prime candidate for an upgauge to mainline, but I've been waiting for quite a while, here's to hoping though!

Maybe they may re-start the PHX-CVG route as well. That's a route that some people were trying to get US to start after DL cut it.



我思うゆえに我あり。(Jap. 'I think, therefore I am.')
User currently offlineaeroc From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13915 times:

Any chance of a return of DFW-BUF/ROC/SYR?

User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13874 times:

Would love to see LAX-MSY or perhaps JFK-MSY for obvious reasons.

User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6776 posts, RR: 17
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13684 times:

For RDU, I could see the following..

DCA - from 15/16 daily to 8 daily mix of E70/319
LGA - Maintain 8 daily mixed E70/CR7/319
ORD - 4 to 5 daily MD80/319/CR7/E70 mix
LAX unchanged
CLT unchanged
PIT unchanged
PHL 319/738/CR7 mix
DFW MD80/321 mix
MIA unchanged
LHR unchanged
PHX return? 1x
JFK up to 5x CRJ/CR7 mix
LAS?



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineCIDFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2328 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13682 times:

Quoting Longhornmaniac (Reply 8):
Still waiting on AUS-MIA...many years later.

Cheers,

Cameron

still can't believe this one has never been started. Hopefully soon!

I for one would just like to see at least one daily mainline flight to DFW from CID  


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 13314 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 6):
I'd like to see a return of SJC-JFK and SJC-BOS, but unfortunately am not holding my breath.

SJC-BOS youll never see unless AA drops its cornerstone strategy.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6500 posts, RR: 20
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13209 times:

Quoting aeroc (Reply 14):

I know BUF had a DFW route------when was ROC-DFW & SYR-DFW operated?



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4416 posts, RR: 6
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13054 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

I'd like to see DFW-RST return 1x daily ERJ, but I'd say it's unlikely. AA started the route in June of 2005 and I don't recall that it stuck around for a long time.

User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2933 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13015 times:

I'd like to see service to Lincoln, NE and Branson, MO, two markets I am somewhat surprised are missing from Eagle's midwestern network.

Going forward I hope the new AA expands away from their cornerstone strategy and adds some point to points back, such as SFO-BOS, SFO-STL, etc.


User currently offlineERJ170 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 6776 posts, RR: 17
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 12901 times:

I would argue the cornerstone strategy is going to be even more utilized here.. uS cut most of their P2P routes under Parker and I could see the same with the new AA..

I predict the cornerstones will be:

DFW (LatAm gateway)
MIA (caribe SoAm gateway)
ORD (Midwest gateway)
LAX (pacific gateway)
CLT (southern hub)
PHL (northern gateway)
DCA (what I call the government hub)

Focus:
LGA (business markets)
JFK (international)
PHX (until eventual downgrade)



Aiming High and going far..
User currently offlineFWAERJ From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 3770 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12619 times:

AA left SBN for the second time in 2003 during the big STL downsizing (the first time in 2000 was to ORD).

I don't think SBN-ORD will return, and STL is no longer a hub, but an AA return to SBN in the form of SBN-DFW has been rumored almost since I joined a.net. Maybe the US merger will speed things up, but I wonder if AA is concerned about cannibalizing FWA-DFW (which does VERY well) if they reopen SBN.



"Did he really need the triple bypass? Or was it the miles?"
User currently offlinebrooklynchris13 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11135 times:

For my adopted hometown here in NYC, I see some pretty interesting possibilities once the merger is finalized and integration completed. LGA will probably see the most change as domestic frequencies currently taken up by smaller RJs and DH8s are upsized and redirected where possible to allow better slot utilization. A good example being LGA-PHL. Post merger, I could see that going down to six or so flights a day on larger RJs (If that many) with the other ten slots being used for domestic adds or expansion into more profitable routes where the 175s, 190s, 738s, and A321s will be able to be used to full advantage.

CMH is another example. Currently up to 6 R/Ts a day on mostly 135s and the occasional CR7 could be replaced by four or five CR7s/175 or perhaps a 190. Carried throughout the station, thats more than a few opportunities to build up LGA destinations with a fleet that (combined) will offer A/C sizes all the way from ERJ140/145 to B752. That would appear to be an opprtunity to give DL a good challenge for their money here in the NYC market, even if they can't quite beat them.



be the change you want to see in the world (mg)
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 972 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11221 times:

Will business routes BOS-SYR/MDT/PIT/RIC/ROC/BUF stay?

Will seasonal and less than daily leisure routes BOS-CUN/PLS/MBJ/PUJ stay?


User currently offlineUSAirALB From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 3109 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11014 times:

I'd like to see ORD-ALB/PVD make a return.


E135/E140/E145/E70/E75/E90/CR2/CR7/CR9/717/732/733/734/735/73G/738/739/752/753/762/772/319/320/321/333
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1064 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11243 times:

Bring back DFW-AVL and start MIA-AVL.

Please.


User currently offlineCairnterriAIR From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 405 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11229 times:

BDL to ORD....please upgrade the E-135/145's to mainline aircraft!

User currently offlineBA0197 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2011, 315 posts, RR: 1
Reply 29, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 11046 times:

Upguage IAH-ORD/LAX!!!!!!

User currently offlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 944 posts, RR: 1
Reply 30, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10917 times:

Quoting BA0197 (Reply 29):

Nice!!! Upgauge to what aircraft though?



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlineBA0197 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2011, 315 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10837 times:

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 30):

Anything mainline. I see Chicago going to a E175, Los Angeles really should be a 738. But I am the humble GA, what do I know about yields. I just think the routes justify larger AC.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 32, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10829 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 2):
I think the writing is on the wall for that. AA will soon have the critical mass to support mainline flights to basically every major market in the country, especially to overpriced legacy hubs like CVG where they won't have to undercut fares by much if at all...
Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 22):
I predict the cornerstones will be:

DFW (LatAm gateway)
MIA (caribe SoAm gateway)
ORD (Midwest gateway)
LAX (pacific gateway)
CLT (southern hub)
PHL (northern gateway)
DCA (what I call the government hub)

Focus:
LGA (business markets)
JFK (international)
PHX (until eventual downgrade)

I think you generally have it right, with the exception that DFW will never be the primary Latin American gateway - it will always be secondary to MIA. Otherwise I agree.

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 24):
For my adopted hometown here in NYC, I see some pretty interesting possibilities once the merger is finalized and integration completed. LGA will probably see the most change as domestic frequencies currently taken up by smaller RJs and DH8s are upsized and redirected where possible to allow better slot utilization. A good example being LGA-PHL. Post merger, I could see that going down to six or so flights a day on larger RJs (If that many) with the other ten slots being used for domestic adds or expansion into more profitable routes where the 175s, 190s, 738s, and A321s will be able to be used to full advantage.

CMH is another example. Currently up to 6 R/Ts a day on mostly 135s and the occasional CR7 could be replaced by four or five CR7s/175 or perhaps a 190. Carried throughout the station, thats more than a few opportunities to build up LGA destinations with a fleet that (combined) will offer A/C sizes all the way from ERJ140/145 to B752. That would appear to be an opprtunity to give DL a good challenge for their money here in the NYC market, even if they can't quite beat them.

  

If AA is smart, they will fully utilize the huge opportunity they now have to leverage a combined slot pool and strengthen their presence in NYC.

These merger opens up lots of opportunities at both LGA and JFK, for different reasons. At LGA, US brings a huge pool of new slots, many of which are obviously being sat on and superfluous for US' existing network ex-LGA. In addition, AA - as you said - has plenty of markets that are being flown with very small RJs that could likely be flown with perhaps 1 fewer daily departure, and still have a very strong schedule, but larger, 2-class EMBs. And at JFK, the key difference post-merger is that AA will be able to exit many if not most of the small ERJ markets ex-JFK that are 1-2x/day and timed exclusively for international connections. Most or all of those connections can now easily be routed over PHL, freeing up precious/scarce JFK slots to be used in more lucrative markets.

Specifically, I think AA could very plausibly add nonstops on large 2-class EMBs from LGA to IAH, MCI, IND and CVG, plus possibly 1 large EMB or even A319 to MSY. At JFK, I could definitely see freed up ERJ slots being used to (1) boost frequency somewhat on LAX/SFO as those markets transition to far smaller A321s, and (2) open up new or expanded service such as 1 well-timed flight to/from DEN, new international flights to FRA, GLA and TLV, plus additional frequencies to SEA and SAN.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 26):
I'd like to see ORD-ALB/PVD make a return.

  

I think we will see plenty of improved capacity (routes, frequency and capacity) between ORD and northeast markets as a result of this merger. The combined scale of AA+US in these markets will give AA a stronger value proposition for capturing local customers in those markets, and ORD is a perfectly-situated hub for westbound connections.

Quoting AVLAirlineFreq (Reply 27):
Bring back DFW-AVL and start MIA-AVL.

I don't think so - that's precisely the type of long, thing market that is likely to be the most challenging in coming years as the economics of 50-seat RJs further deteriorate. I think that's exactly the kind of market that we will see concentrated on a single nearby hub (very, very nearby in AVL's case) - AVL is a perfect eventual DH4/AT7 market for AA via CLT.


User currently offlinecessna2 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 345 posts, RR: 2
Reply 33, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10681 times:

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 16):
For RDU, I could see the following..

DCA - from 15/16 daily to 8 daily mix of E70/319
LGA - Maintain 8 daily mixed E70/CR7/319
ORD - 4 to 5 daily MD80/319/CR7/E70 mix
LAX unchanged
CLT unchanged
PIT unchanged
PHL 319/738/CR7 mix
DFW MD80/321 mix
MIA unchanged
LHR unchanged
PHX return? 1x
JFK up to 5x CRJ/CR7 mix
LAS?

Will be interesting to see what happens in RDU. With the big push by DL to become the dominant carrier can we expect a turf war? Assuming things stay the same now both will have a pretty sizeable operation in RDU. Who bleeds who dry first is the real question.


User currently offlinebrooklynchris13 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10675 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 32):
If AA is smart, they will fully utilize the huge opportunity they now have to leverage a combined slot pool and strengthen their presence in NYC.

Thanks for the positive feedback. I have finally had the chance to make a quick spreadsheet of destinations and frequencies from LGA to have some good data to go on:

Destination.....Avg Flts Per Day...... Airline.........Type
ATL 7 AE CR7
BNA 6 AE CR7/135
BOS 16 US SHUTTLE A319/190
CLE 4 AE CR7/135
CLT 5 AE CR7
CLT* 13 US Variousx
CMH 6 AE CR7/135
DCA 16 US SHUTTLE Various
DFW 15 AA 738/MD80
DTW 6 AE CR7/135
MIA 10 AA B738
MSP 4 AE CR7
ORD 18 AA 738/MD80
PHL 16 US DH8 & Others
PIT 7 US Various Regional
RDU 10 AE CR7/135
STL 3 AA MD80
XNA 3 AE 135
YUL 5 AE 135
YYZ 9 AE CR7

Okay, this is one of my first attempts at doing a chart like this on here, so please be kind.. but my count comes up with about 179 daily departures...

Based on new types, and streamlining, it would seem PHL and CLT are the first obvious adjustments. Followed by "right-sizing aircraft" on routes like DTW, RDU, YYZ, and BNA to grab a flight or two for another destination.

Thoughts on "upguages?"; new destinations? and any of these that may be on the short list for removal in the future?

Also, any possibility of an extension of the "Shuttle" Concept to include Chicago?

-Chris



be the change you want to see in the world (mg)
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 35, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 10637 times:

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 34):
Okay, this is one of my first attempts at doing a chart like this on here, so please be kind.. but my count comes up with about 179 daily departures...

Based on new types, and streamlining, it would seem PHL and CLT are the first obvious adjustments. Followed by "right-sizing aircraft" on routes like DTW, RDU, BNA to grab a flight or two for another destination.

Thoughts on "upguages?"; new destinations? and any of these that may be on the short list for removal in the future?

I did a similar look, using the peak day schedules for this July, and found a grand total - combined - of 179 departures (114 AA + 65 US). By comparison, I show DL having a total of 276. Those numbers could be off a bit, but I think that is a rough ballpark.

As you said, to start with, obvious places to right-size are PHL and CLT, both of which currently see slots being sat on (several instances of 2 departures to the same destination within 15-45 minutes of each other throughout the day). Plus, they can just eliminate AA's LGA-CLT flights and upgauge the remainder of CLT to mainline. So that would save 4 departures at CLT (18 combined to 14) and 3 on PHL (13>10) Beyond that, I could also see several existing AA/Eagle markets lose 1-2 daily departures as they move to larger, 2-class RJs - specifically: BNA* (6>4), RDU (10>8), XNA (3>2), YUL (5>4), and BUF (2/day), CVG (3), IAH (3), IND (3), MCI (3), and MSY (1)**.

* I could see BNA going from 6 RJs back to a mix of mainline/RJ
** On the adds, I could see just about all of those being on 2-class RJs (EMBs) with the exception of MSY (an A319)

Given some strategic adds, and given the comparison of overall slots, I think AA has an enormous opportunity here to become an ever strong offering for the NYC market post-merger. AA is currently utilizing a lot of slots in a very suboptimal way for a variety of reasons including slot restrictions, legacy union contracts, etc. that can now be used in a better way, particularly with the opportunities afforded post-merger. AA has an enormous slot holding at LGA that can be deployed in a few strategic O&D markets from NYC to dramatically boost AA's already-large presence in the region. Plus, on the other side of these routes, AA is now going to have a very strong combined schedule in a lot of central and eastern U.S. markets (IND, MCI, etc.) that will benefit from nonstops to LGA/NYC in addition to nonstops to PHL, DCA, etc. in the northeast.

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 34):
Also, any possibility of an extension of the "Shuttle" Concept to include Chicago?
AA has effectively already had that for years, even if they don't brand it that way. Remember - AA has more departures per day to ORD (18) than US currently has to either DCA or BOS (16 each). I agree with you, though - I could see a rebranding of the 'Shuttle' product that, like with Delta, incorporates the critical ORD market.

[Edited 2013-03-31 18:18:24]

User currently offlinebrooklynchris13 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10475 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 35):
and BUF (2/day), CVG (3), IAH (3), IND (3), MCI (3), and MSY (1)**.

I think you are right on with the Possible Additions. IAH makes a great deal of sense and wasnt on my "imaginary list". A couple of other maybes:

SDF (decent sized market with good business climate, apparently decent revenue on DLs Non-stops)
CHS (seems to be doing well for DL and B6 is entering, might be a bit much, but increasing business activity in the area and cultural connections to NYC area)
MKE (might as well give DL some competition)
CRW (return 1X)
DAY* (I would be very curious about numbers behind this)
CAK** (IF WN were to consolidate at CLE there might be a market for this to continue 1x)
ROA** (If the new AAUS wants to stake a big claim in the old US/Piedmont Heartland and go after DL)
ALB** (If there is enough lingering love (aka Corp and govt $$) that could come US/AAs way)

Thats my quick off the head list..

-Chris



be the change you want to see in the world (mg)
User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 37, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10407 times:

Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 36):
SDF (decent sized market with good business climate, apparently decent revenue on DLs Non-stops)
CHS (seems to be doing well for DL and B6 is entering, might be a bit much, but increasing business activity in the area and cultural connections to NYC area)
MKE (might as well give DL some competition)
CRW (return 1X)
DAY* (I would be very curious about numbers behind this)
CAK** (IF WN were to consolidate at CLE there might be a market for this to continue 1x)
ROA** (If the new AAUS wants to stake a big claim in the old US/Piedmont Heartland and go after DL)
ALB** (If there is enough lingering love (aka Corp and govt $$) that could come US/AAs way)

Honestly, I think most of those markets are either too competitive (MKE) or too small (all the others). AA/Eagle has already been flying LGA-CRW for several years, and they're cancelling it in a few months.

I think AA's primary focus in deploying LGA slots should be to continue doing what they have long been good at - prime business O&D markets. This has long been AA's "bread and butter" at LGA and the 2-class EMBs give them the opportunity to put themselves on an at-least-competitive-if-not-superior footing vs DL in terms of the onboard product since the EMBs are a better experience than the CRJs - particularly on long flights.

Plus, again, there are lots of markets around the country where, post-merger, AA is going to instantly jump to the first or second largest carrier at a given airport, and in lots of those places AA will now be offering nonstop flights to multiple hubs including multiple hubs along the east coast and in the northeast (ORD, DFW, CLT, DCA, PHL, etc.). In several of those markets, AA may well find that adding a few daily flights to LGA will help them attract and retain high-yielding corporate contracts in those spoke markets. (NYC is the largest business travel market in North America, after all.)


User currently offlineaeroc From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 311 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10324 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 19):
I know BUF had a DFW route------when was ROC-DFW & SYR-DFW operated?

The dates may be a little off but BUF had mainline DFW, when it started Im not 100% sure, but ended around the start of 2003 IIRC when Eagle took over the station. It restarted in 2005 with eagle CR7 x1/day and then x2/day for a while before going back to x1/day towards the end.

ROC/SYR started in 2005 as well both with x1/day with the CR7 and both outlasted BUF by about a half year before ending around fall 2008 IIRC.

Im not sure what the seat values were on the flights but I do recall the ROC-DFW flights being full 90% of the time in both directions. At that time the CR7 were 70 seats all coach.

If DFW isnt in the cards for BUF/ROC/SYR maybe there is hope for MIA. It was always a rumor AA/AE wanted to start MIA service to BUF/ROC/SYR from MIA but we were out of range for the E145. PIT was just under the limit and had MIA. Maybe there is a market if MIA gets some CR7 based there?

[Edited 2013-03-31 19:44:12]

User currently offlineLONGisland89 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 738 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10293 times:

In a related note. Where the hell are AA + US physically going to fit together @ LGA?

User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 40, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10294 times:

Quoting LONGisland89 (Reply 39):
In a related note. Where the hell are AA + US physically going to fit together @ LGA?

Very good question.

I have no idea how that's going to happen. I suppose the "easiest" (relatively speaking) solution would be for UA and US to swap locations, with UA moving into the west side of the former US terminal, and AA consolidating in the CTB-C/D. Not sure if that's a big enough space, though. When the LGA CTB rebuild is done, the problem will be solved. But that's years and years away. The combined AA/US operation - even without any additions of new routes or market upgrades - is a very, very large operation (again, just under 200 daily departures). It's going to be "fun" fitting that anywhere.

On a related note, though, AA rolled out their new airport concept in the newly-reopened section of DFW Terminal A last week, and the accompanying press release mentioned that it would be coming to LGA (among other airports) "later this year." LGA was the only other airport specifically mentioned by name. After having gone through the area a few days ago, I must say - it is really nice, and quite a dramatic improvement over what it replaced. I will be happy to see it at LGA, where I think AA has already in recent years done a relatively good job of trying to improve what (little) they have to work with - at least in D.


User currently offlineDeltaXNA From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 9891 times:

I'd like to see ORD-ABQ/EWR/ELP return to mainline. EWR may be tough since their competition across the ramp has hubs at both ends.

I'd also like to see ORD-COS/MTJ/ANC/YVR/YYC return.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 42, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 9677 times:

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 41):
I'd like to see ORD-ABQ/EWR/ELP return to mainline. EWR may be tough since their competition across the ramp has hubs at both ends.

ABQ and ELP - maybe with A319s, but they may well stay as CR7s. EWR I think is much more likely to see the new E175s and maybe a mix of a few A319s during peak summer season. EWR is among the very first markets - along with IAH and ATL - that I expect to get the E175s out of ORD.

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 41):
I'd also like to see ORD-COS/MTJ/ANC/YVR/YYC return.

I think COS and YYC are both plausible with RJs, and ANC and YVR are also totally plausible summer-seasonal.


User currently offlinedsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 903 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 9270 times:

GPT to CLT/DFW on mainline
GPT to ORD restablished with Ejets
GPT to MIA launched.



GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlinebrooklynchris13 From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9103 times:

Quoting DeltaXNA (Reply 41):
On a related note, though, AA rolled out their new airport concept in the newly-reopened section of DFW Terminal A last week, and the accompanying press release mentioned that it would be coming to LGA (among other airports) "later this year." LGA was the only other airport specifically mentioned by name. After having gone through the area a few days ago, I must say - it is really nice, and quite a dramatic improvement over what it replaced. I will be happy to see it at LGA, where I think AA has already in recent years done a relatively good job of trying to improve what (little) they have to work with - at least in D.

From the "changes to come at LGA" news front, the PA has approved construction of a new parking garage in front of Terminal C to serve DL's operations.

http://www.timesledger.com/stories/2...guardiagarage_tl_2013_03_29_q.html

This will be complete in 2015 and permit use of existing parking space for the new CTB. According to a separate Reuter's Article, the construction on the new CTB is supposed to start sometime in early 2014... which seems to be a move up from some of the earlier dates, but will, none-the-less, still be a rather lenghty (but overdue) process.

The suggestion about swapping United and US Airways would seem to make the most sense, but we shall see what happens.



be the change you want to see in the world (mg)
User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 45, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 9073 times:

There has been minimal discussion pertaining to transborder/international services so I thought I'd get the ball rolling on that one (since that's in scope for this thread, correct?)

We have the following coming up:

DFW-LIM (starting 4/2 - tomorrow!)
ORD-DUS (starting 4/11)
DFW-ICN (starting 5/9)
JFK-DUB (starting 6/12)
DFW-HMO (starting 6/12)
DFW-ZCL (starting 6/12)
DFW-BOG (date TBD, late 2013)
MIA-CWB/POA (date TBD, late 2013)
LAX-GRU (date TBD, late 2013)
ORD-GRU (2014)

Additionally, it appears that DFW-GIG is increasing from 3x weekly to 5x weekly starting June 12.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 8865 times:

Would AA upgauge ORD-PIT to mainline? Granted, PIT is no longer a US hub, but I would expect a number of US F/F flyers in western Pennsylvania are probably flying UA on ORD-PIT, especially if they are connecting to other cities in the Midwest.

User currently offlinecjpmaestro From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 93 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 8680 times:

Quoting Miami (Reply 11):
I'm still waiting for AA to launch NRT-MIA.

As we head down the merger path, I'd love to see AA or JAL announce PHL-NRT.


User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 8205 times:

I'm hoping we see some more expansion in Germany. Additional flights to FRA, perhaps from JFK. Also, with the new AB partnership, maybe we will see TXL (or BER if it ever opens) in the near future.

What I really want is to see additional Europe flying from non-JFK hubs. Lets see MIA-MXP and maybe ORD-ZRH again. I just hate how ORD, DFW, MIA have minimum Europe flying.



I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlinelweber557 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 49, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8158 times:

Hopefully they bring back AUS - MIA. I don't think they'd have any trouble on it since B6 and WN fly AUS - FLL and they seem to do well on it.

User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8104 times:

Is there any possibility AA will bring back mainline to HPN and start up
SWF again? I know they had mainline to HPN and SWF back in the late
90' then downgraded HPN to RJ's and dropped SWF entirely.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 51, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

Quoting oc2dc (Reply 48):
I just hate how ORD, DFW, MIA have minimum Europe flying.

Well, to be fair, you now have to look at the network in context of a merged AA-US, rather than from the existing cornerstone US hubs.

My guess is that, specifically referring to PMAA hubs, we might see some out-of-box startups like MIA-MXP and MIA-ZRH, where there is potential to draw in high-yielding traffic capable of competing against entrenched competition. From NYC, AA will (hopefully) attempt a few routes with high O&D levels like JFK-SVO/DME, JFK-TLV, JFK-FRA, etc.

However, the real surge will come from assets that US Airways brings to the table from its hubs. PHL will evolve in the role of the domestic-to-international TATL gateway, while CLT will retain a few key international linkages to LHR, FRA, CDG and the seasonal FCO and MAD (not sure about DUB) much like DFW does.

Overall, I'm not too worried about AA's future in Europe, and certainly not in Latin America. It's Asia, and to a lesser degree, Africa, that I think requires the most immediate attention.

Truthfully, I know that growth in Asia, for both North American and Asian carriers alike, has been choppy over the past decade. However, I really think that the time is really ripening for DFW-HKG and MIA-NRT, and once the merger clears, PHL-NRT as well. I think these three are the lowest-hanging fruit with high potential for success.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 52, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 7508 times:

Quoting mia305 (Reply 50):
Is there any possibility AA will bring back mainline to HPN and start up
SWF again?

Isnt the A319 too big for HPN?

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 45):
DFW-ICN (starting 5/9)

I predict this doesnt work

Quoting ckfred (Reply 46):
Would AA upgauge ORD-PIT to mainline?

That could be a A319 candidate.


User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 53, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 7382 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 52):
I predict this doesnt work

We'll just have to wait and see, but I believe you're one of the few that feels that way. DFW-ICN is the largest O&D market between Texas and Asia, larger than DFW-NRT, which has seen 2x daily flights on AA for well over a decade. Granted, both benefit from having hub/codeshare feed from partners at either end, but DFW-ICN should be able to support two carriers thanks to the large business ties between North Texas and Korea, along with a large Korean population in the DFW area. KE is extending its existing DFW service to daily moving forward.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7236 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 52):

I don't think the 319 is to big for HPN JetBlue flies a 320 from HPN to PBI.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 55, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 7144 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 51):
rom NYC, AA will (hopefully) attempt a few routes with high O&D levels like JFK-SVO/DME, JFK-TLV, JFK-FRA, etc.

  

The two existing US PHL-Europe flights that I could definitely see shifting up to JFK would be GLA and the second FRA (both as 757s out JFK), plus possibly VCE.

In terms of growth, I could see JFK-TLV (alongside PHL-TLV) and possibly JFK-DME down the road (I do think Russia is a market AA should be in long-term, but I think JFK is a better gateway than ORD).

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 51):
PHL will evolve in the role of the domestic-to-international TATL gateway

I think it already serves that role well for US, and will continue to do so at AA alongside JFK, which should be optimized more for O&D and select connections (premium transcons, etc.).

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 51):
while CLT will retain a few key international linkages to LHR, FRA, CDG and the seasonal FCO and MAD (not sure about DUB) much like DFW does.

I am not sure how CLT-DUB will do going forward - I could see that being discontinued in favor of simply increasing capacity to DUB from 3 superior gateways (JFK/PHL/ORD). I don't think CLT-FCO will stay (too seasonal and low-yielding) - I expect that to shift to MIA-MXP. LHR and FRA will definitely be year-round (LHR probably an AA 777 + BA 777 and FRA likely a 763) and CDG either seasonal or year-round (at sub-daily frequency). Given the extensive connectivity ex-MAD, I could actually also see MAD going year-round, albeit also perhaps at sub-daily frequency.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 51):
I'm not too worried about AA's future in Europe, and certainly not in Latin America.

  

Post-merger, AA will be essentially tied with UA and DL to Europe, and handily dominant to Latin America.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 51):
It's Asia, and to a lesser degree, Africa, that I think requires the most immediate attention.

I am in the small minority who actually think AA's long term strategic prospects in Asia are not bad at all. Drawing trend lines out into the future over the next decade, I actually think AA is probably not too far behind DL at all. In my view, the next decade for DL in Asia is going to be dominated by dismantling some or most of their NRT hub and transitioning that flying to nonstop flights from U.S. gateways - primarily DTW and SEA. At the same time, AA has now solidified - through the ATI/JV with JAL - beyond-NRT feed for its core U.S.-NRT flying, and is already developing a nonstop U.S.-Asia network beyond Japan. AA will soon be flying as many nonstop flights per week between the U.S. and Korea as DL (7 each), and nearly as many to China (21 vs 28). Those are the core northeast Asia business markets beyond Japan that AA has to have a strong presence in. The other key north Asia market accessible to AA is HKG - AA needs to be flying there, from DFW and/or ORD. Beyond that - everything else can easily be left to JAL and NRT connections, just as will likely be the case going forward for DL and, in many cases, UA, too.

As for Africa, I'm not so sure about the efficacy of substantial investment in growth there. The experience of DL and UA is instructive - both substantially increased growth in Africa, only to substantially pare such growth back. Outside of a few markets - JNB, LOS, ACC - I am not sure how much capacity the continent can realistically handle from U.S. carriers in the near- to mid-term. I think AA's best bet for first entry into Africa is clearly MIA-South Africa. Beyond that, down the road, growth into LOS or ACC might work.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 51):
However, I really think that the time is really ripening for DFW-HKG and MIA-NRT, and once the merger clears, PHL-NRT as well.

Yes to all of those - plus perhaps some additional LAX- and/or JFK-China capacity if they can get appropriate slots.

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 52):
I predict this doesnt work

Not sure why. I think DFW-ICN should do quite well, especially once they get the 777s appropriately reconfigured. The local market is large, the premium segment is strong and to a large extent U.S.-originating, and backed up by several substantial corporate contracts.


User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6816 times:

I'd love to see AA bring back all 763 on MIA-SFO route or maybe try a 777 on that.

I know wishful thinking on the 777. But hey It would be nice.

[Edited 2013-04-02 22:07:31]

User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2214 posts, RR: 15
Reply 57, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 6537 times:

Quoting mia305 (Reply 56):
I'd love to see AA bring back all 763 on MIA-SFO route or maybe try a 777 on that.

It would make far more business sense for AA to introduce its new A320 family series a/c on MIASFO with the 3-class cabin configured bird specifically designed for transcon routes. The 763 product is severely outdated and shoddy by comparison.

777s: not a chance. Way too much density in a highly-saturated market with tons of existing competition. AA needs to compete on product rather than ASMs here.



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6336 times:

I know as well AA had MIA-FRA in the mid to late 90's then dropped it.
Not a new route. Hopefully they will bring it back. As well as ZRH and FCO.

[Edited 2013-04-03 11:53:16]

User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 59, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 6289 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 57):

It's going to be a while when the 321's come to MIA as they will fly out of JFK.
Until that time why not place all 763's on the route and capitalize on what they
have already. They are the only ones flying that route nonstop.


User currently offlineWA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2247 posts, RR: 8
Reply 60, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6185 times:

Quoting commavia (Reply 55):
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 52):
I predict this doesnt work

Not sure why. I think DFW-ICN should do quite well, especially once they get the 777s appropriately reconfigured. The local market is large, the premium segment is strong and to a large extent U.S.-originating, and backed up by several substantial corporate contracts.

AA will also be able to fill up the back of the aircraft with military traffic flying from bases in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, etc to ICN. AA has found a very nice niche in recent years by flying to small towns with big military bases, and this route builds on that strategy.



Seaholm Maples are #1!
User currently offlinetonytifao From Brazil, joined Mar 2005, 1029 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6173 times:

Could we ever see MIA to CVG or SDF on mainline?

User currently offlineDeltaXNA From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 6186 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 57):
777s: not a chance. Way too much density in a highly-saturated market with tons of existing competition. AA needs to compete on product rather than ASMs here.

I agree there is barely a chance to see a 777 on this route. But unless you are including FLL in this, AA is alone on MIA-SFO. There is no nonstop competition.

Quoting tonytifao (Reply 61):
Could we ever see MIA to CVG or SDF on mainline?

I think you will see DFW-CVG on mainline first before MIA. SDF maybe with an E175?

[Edited 2013-04-03 12:30:43]

User currently offlinecrAAzy From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 800 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 5742 times:
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Quoting commavia (Reply 37):
Quoting brooklynchris13 (Reply 36):
SDF (decent sized market with good business climate, apparently decent revenue on DLs Non-stops)
CHS (seems to be doing well for DL and B6 is entering, might be a bit much, but increasing business activity in the area and cultural connections to NYC area)
MKE (might as well give DL some competition)
CRW (return 1X)
DAY* (I would be very curious about numbers behind this)
CAK** (IF WN were to consolidate at CLE there might be a market for this to continue 1x)
ROA** (If the new AAUS wants to stake a big claim in the old US/Piedmont Heartland and go after DL)
ALB** (If there is enough lingering love (aka Corp and govt $$) that could come US/AAs way)

Honestly, I think most of those markets are either too competitive (MKE) or too small (all the others).



AA was considering MKE-LGA several years ago but then decided against competing with YX and started a MSN-LGA route. Hindsight being 20/20 they probably would have been much better off starting MKE-LGA. Now with DL flying into 4x LGA and 1x JFK from MKE they have pretty much locked up the route.

AA could probalby compete fairly well with DL on the route with 3 flighst a day into LGA. IMHO LGA-MKE is going to be a key route to with respect to what AA/US decides to do with NYC - adding flights from LGA-MKE would likely be an indication of them taking a VERY aggressive approach in the NYC market against DL.

Finally, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the "forever wanted" MKE-MIA flight   


User currently offlineHPRamper From United States of America, joined May 2005, 4076 posts, RR: 8
Reply 64, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5606 times:

Quoting mia305 (Reply 54):
I don't think the 319 is to big for HPN JetBlue flies a 320 from HPN to PBI.

I believe the local government has to give an exemption for an aircraft of that size. Not saying it wouldn't happen, but it's just another hoop to jump through.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3546 posts, RR: 5
Reply 65, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5512 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 25):
Will business routes BOS-SYR/MDT/PIT/RIC/ROC/BUF stay?

Will seasonal and less than daily leisure routes BOS-CUN/PLS/MBJ/PUJ stay?

Likely not.

Quoting commavia (Reply 32):

You keep talking about reallocating JFK slots

1. To where?

2. They feed JFK flights. AA, DL, and B6 connect A LOT of people to the international flights at JFK. That feed is needed. Not as much as a lower O and D hub, but it is still needed. You think AA is going to fill JFK-DUB everyday on O and D alone? When Ae Lingus (which has been on the route for decades) has 3 daily across the field? You need feed.

3. The RJs at JFK take up slack when needed. JFK slots are use or lose. You cant fly to international destinations profitably year round with the same frequency. That's why DL and B6 constantly move frequency around with their slots


User currently offlinejfk777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 8428 posts, RR: 7
Reply 66, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5533 times:
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Now that LAX, DFW and JFK have or soon will have the 777-300ER for LHR flights, when will Miami ? For LHR or GRU flights.

User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 67, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5399 times:

I don't think the US merger increases the chances of SBN to DFW. I also don't think that SBN would impact FWA one bit. MLI, PIA, BMI and CMI all have DFW service.

[quote=IrishAyes,reply=53]
Ok I thought B6 only flew E190s into HPN

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 57):

The three class A321 makes no sense on MIA-SFO. People still seem to have little to no understanding of the purpose and role of united's PS service and copycat product by AA. They only work out of NYC and no where else.


User currently offlinetan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1916 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5321 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 67):
I don't think the US merger increases the chances of SBN to DFW. I also don't think that SBN would impact FWA one bit. MLI, PIA, BMI and CMI all have DFW service.

Though, in a realignment it might result in SBN-CLT. There is do doubt SBN could support at least 1 daily DFW as a part of an Eagle station..Actually, correctly timed, I could see 2 DFW and 2 CLT dailies working for the new AA.

As many others have said, with the amount of new aircraft coming "old" AA has a great opportunity to right size, upgauge, and start new service on dozens of new routes. There should be plenty of opportunities to make money and siphon off market share from the others. Eventually when they get a combined FAA certificate, watch out...even more opportunities to maximize aircraft size/ range and connect dozens more of the dots if you will.

We sure would like to know when we will see the 738's out here at FAT..It was supposed to be last summer (late) or early fall of 2012. Don't get me wrong, I love the Mad Dogs...but the reliability issues keep cropping up and using any MD80's on DFW to either coasts where fuel is more costly just doesn't make any sense to me. Keep them within 2 hours of DFW where fuels is cheaper anywhere in the middle of the country.

maybe someone in the know can shed a bit of light on when we will see them. Of course the old joke has been that FAT will be the last MD 80 flight so they can just ferry it over the Sierra Nevada's to Mohave.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 69, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5271 times:

Quoting tan flyr (Reply 68):
Though, in a realignment it might result in SBN-CLT. There is do doubt SBN could support at least 1 daily DFW as a part of an Eagle station..Actually, correctly timed, I could see 2 DFW and 2 CLT dailies working for the new AA.

I do think there is opportunity for CLT flights to smaller sized Midwestern cities. Certainly GRR should be the top of the list. CAT has a plant in NC, so PIA-CLT could work


User currently offline9w748capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 600 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5223 times:

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 60):
AA will also be able to fill up the back of the aircraft with military traffic flying from bases in Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas, etc to ICN. AA has found a very nice niche in recent years by flying to small towns with big military bases, and this route builds on that strategy.

Exactly - I'm sure there will regularly be lots of military pax connecting from OKC and LAW to ICN via DFW. No reason this route shouldn't do quite well for AA.

Quoting crAAzy (Reply 63):
AA could probalby compete fairly well with DL on the route with 3 flighst a day into LGA. IMHO LGA-MKE is going to be a key route to with respect to what AA/US decides to do with NYC - adding flights from LGA-MKE would likely be an indication of them taking a VERY aggressive approach in the NYC market against DL.

I wonder if AA would take on that kind of risk - true MKE isn't quite the bloodbath it used to the last few years but I get the feeling AA would probably rather just let it be rather than compete for questionable yields anyway? Especially since DL far surpasses AA in MKE - not only that but with the skyclub opening they'll have even more leverage on competing for the MKE premium pax. Even though it's possible there are some AA flyers who would make the trek up from norther illinois to fly AA I'm not sure how significant this number would be. Perhaps as the merger gets consummated they might start MKE-DCA and take on FL/WN or perhaps more likely MSN-DCA (F9)?

Additionally I'm still hoping for either 1) upgauge on OKC-ORD to at least E75 - that would be a start, and 2) and OKC-east coast flight on AA. If UA can make OKC-EWR work year round then surely AA can compete with OKC-LGA or now OKC-PHL? As for west coast we're probably maxed out for the moment with a 3rd daily OKC-LAX being added.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4606 posts, RR: 23
Reply 71, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5028 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 69):
I do think there is opportunity for CLT flights to smaller sized Midwestern cities. Certainly GRR should be the top of the list. CAT has a plant in NC, so PIA-CLT could work

I would think any AA or US station that only have 1 hub service now will likely move up to at least 2 hubs to take advantage of the new network. I see CLT getting a lot of connections throughout the Great Lakes (finally) with maybe some to PHL for the int'l stuff. Going west they'll be able to shore up more DFW routes to a lot of cities lacking it.

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 70):
Additionally I'm still hoping for either 1) upgauge on OKC-ORD to at least E75 - that would be a start, and 2) and OKC-east coast flight on AA. If UA can make OKC-EWR work year round then surely AA can compete with OKC-LGA or now OKC-PHL? As for west coast we're probably maxed out for the moment with a 3rd daily OKC-LAX being added.

OKC-EWR has been iffy at times, but the yields are probably good. Not sure if LGA makes sense. I could see the 175 coming onto OKC-ORD at some point. I think OKC-CLT is a definite addition at some point. I agree that OKC to the West is pretty well maxed out now. DFW is interesting as well on what happens there. They are adding 2 50-seaters to the existing 7 daily MD-80s. I have a feeling this stays mostly MD80s until the very end before going to 319s or 738s.


User currently offlineckfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5273 posts, RR: 1
Reply 72, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4923 times:

Quoting HPRamper (Reply 64):
I believe the local government has to give an exemption for an aircraft of that size. Not saying it wouldn't happen, but it's just another hoop to jump through.

IIRC, the White Plains airport has a set number of passengers that they want going through on an hourly basis. When AA dropped the F100s on HPN-ORD and went to Embrears, then other carriers took the capacity. For AA to get significantly larger aircraft would mean either doing some swaps with other carriers or getting the airport to increase the number of passengers who can go through the airport at the time of AA's operations.


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 73, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4872 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 67):
The three class A321 makes no sense on MIA-SFO. People still seem to have little to no understanding of the purpose and role of united's PS service and copycat product by AA. They only work out of NYC and no where else.

On heavy frequency you're right, only those markets can support the likes of 7-15x daily 3-class service.

To say the product doesn't work elsewhere is just plain wrong. AA operates two daily MIALAX 3-class flights - sometimes three - and it works fine.



a.
User currently offlineFRAborn From Germany, joined Feb 2013, 26 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4841 times:

Any chance we may see MKE-MIA?

User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5700 posts, RR: 24
Reply 75, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4817 times:

I wouldnt mind seeing LAX-SLC going to an MD-80 or 738...or perhaps an A319 when they come online.


Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineSouthernDC9 From United States of America, joined Mar 2011, 442 posts, RR: 0
Reply 76, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4758 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 71):
I think OKC-CLT is a definite addition at some point.

OKC-CLT was very randomly included in US's bid for the new DCA Air-21 slots, as a complement to the DCA-OKC service they seek to provide. That I know of, no decision has been made on this but regardless, OKC-CLT is definitely on somebody's radar, somewhere (and there are no slot restrictions forbidding them from starting that particular flight separately from the DCA proposal, as I understand it).



What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 77, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4777 times:

I was wondering as well why did AA drop the SWF/ORD route. I believe at the time they were flying
it it was doing good for them. It would be good for them to bring it back. 

Hopefully they'll be flying MIA/SJC sooner than later.


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4606 posts, RR: 23
Reply 78, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 4703 times:

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 76):
OKC-CLT was very randomly included in US's bid for the new DCA Air-21 slots, as a complement to the DCA-OKC service they seek to provide. That I know of, no decision has been made on this but regardless, OKC-CLT is definitely on somebody's radar, somewhere (and there are no slot restrictions forbidding them from starting that particular flight separately from the DCA proposal, as I understand it).

Indeed it was. Well if US would win (though I don't think it is likely) the slots, they are going to want something else there to balance out just one flight a day for a new station. CLT makes the most sense. I included it because the way I see it, it is almost a manner of when and not if with OKC-CLT. The DCA approval would speed the timetable up, otherwise it would have appeared as US started moving back into the Midwest/Great Plains but now likely after merger integration.

Now if the DOT would just rule on this already. So much for a typical 90-day decision period...this thing is going on forever.

http://www.regulations.gov/#!searchR...ostedDate;po=0;s=DOT-OST-2000-7182


User currently offlineoc2dc From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4544 times:

AA/Eagle just announced they will be starting LAX-EUG. This is in addition to the recently announced LAX-RDM.

These are two great adds for Oregon and AA.

Source:
http://klcc.org/Feature.asp?FeatureID=4410

[Edited 2013-04-04 14:57:57]


I'm not complaining, I'm critiquing...
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3392 posts, RR: 6
Reply 80, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4386 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 57):
It would make far more business sense for AA to introduce its new A320 family series a/c on MIASFO with the 3-class cabin configured bird specifically designed for transcon routes. The 763 product is severely outdated and shoddy by comparison.

While I disagree that MIA-SFO could support dedicated three-class service, you are entirely correct that the 763 fleet (with the notable exception of the 9 delivered in 2003) is showing its age. Then again, as previously mentioned, AA faces no direct competition on the route.

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 57):
777s: not a chance. Way too much density in a highly-saturated market with tons of existing competition. AA needs to compete on product rather than ASMs here.

   While MIA-LAX can support 777 service, the airplane is also serving as an operational spare. It's a unique situation.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 59):
It's going to be a while when the 321's come to MIA as they will fly out of JFK.
Until that time why not place all 763's on the route and capitalize on what they
have already. They are the only ones flying that route nonstop.

The cabin on the newly-delivered 738s is much nicer and more comfortable than that on the 763s. Size isn't everything, especially not if AA wants to compete based on product instead of fare.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11442 posts, RR: 58
Reply 81, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4161 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Big question is what AA plans to do with the 772 released from 77W upgauges. Just know about the ICN flight and potential developments with LAX-GRU. Any others ?

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 45):
Additionally, it appears that DFW-GIG is increasing from 3x weekly to 5x weekly starting June 12

And increases to Daily, on a seasonal basis, on July.
DFW-GRU goes 7x 772 + 4x 763 during mid-June to mid-August.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4101 times:

Would AA be able to to start a LAX-SIN or would they leave that to one of
their alliances?


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 83, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4077 times:

Quoting mia305 (Reply 82):
Would AA be able to to start a LAX-SIN or would they leave that to one of
their alliances?

That would be STAR to STAR hub flying, so it would be difficult for a OW carrier to succeed on that.


User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4035 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 83):

Thanx, I forgot about that.

Would we be seeing AA metal on LAX-SYD or is that staying on QF metal.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 85, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

Quoting mia305 (Reply 84):
Would we be seeing AA metal on LAX-SYD or is that staying on QF metal.

That would require a JV I think


User currently offlineFlyUS From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4020 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 65):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 65):
Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 65):

Why would US discontinue BOS-SYR, ROC, BUF, RIC, CUN, MBJ, PUJ and PLS after the merger? They've been flying these routes for many years. The merger only makes these routes more profitable


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11752 posts, RR: 62
Reply 87, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3993 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 65):
You keep talking about reallocating JFK slots

1. To where?

2. They feed JFK flights. AA, DL, and B6 connect A LOT of people to the international flights at JFK. That feed is needed. Not as much as a lower O and D hub, but it is still needed. You think AA is going to fill JFK-DUB everyday on O and D alone? When Ae Lingus (which has been on the route for decades) has 3 daily across the field? You need feed.

3. The RJs at JFK take up slack when needed. JFK slots are use or lose. You cant fly to international destinations profitably year round with the same frequency. That's why DL and B6 constantly move frequency around with their slots

I never suggested AA would fill their JFK-Europe flights on O&D alone. There would of course always be a connecting component.

But my suggestion has been that they shift around the composition of that connecting component. Today, AA tries to stuff connections from both big markets (LAX, LAS, SAN, SFO, SEA, AUS, DFW, ORD, MIA, MCO, etc.) and relatively small markets (CLE, BWI, CVG, PIT, CMH, etc.) through the JFK connecting channel to fill flights to Europe.

Post-merger, that's no longer necessary. Flying 50-seat RJs JFK-CVG is a total waste of a JFK slot when those CVG-Europe passengers can be far more efficiently connected over PHL. That JFK slot can than be freed up to fly in longer-haul mainline markets with higher passenger load (thus amortizing the fixed costs of the JFK terminal over more enplanements) and perhaps more revenue.

Specifically, I could see AA ending much of the low-frequency JFK ERJ flying and using those freed up slots to add once-per-day flying to several new international markets, some of which would be shifted from PHL (GLA, one of the FRA flights*, possibly VCE), and some of which would be new flying altogether (TLV). In addition, to boost connectings in higher-density markets that also have strong New York O&D, AA could add selected new domestic routes (DEN, SJC, PDX) and add 1-2 additional frequencies on existing routes (SAN 1>2, SEA 1>2, LAS 2>3, etc.).

*Depending on the regulatory constraints placed on the UA-LH JV, AA may be able to use a slot freed up from them

Quoting 9w748capt (Reply 70):
I wonder if AA would take on that kind of risk - true MKE isn't quite the bloodbath it used to the last few years but I get the feeling AA would probably rather just let it be rather than compete for questionable yields anyway?

I don't see MKE being a market AA would fight over out of LGA. In my view, they have other, bigger 'fish to fry' in terms of big local markets from NYC (again, IAH, MCI, IND, CVG, etc.).


User currently offlinemah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 88, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 4001 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 85):

Quoting mia305 (Reply 84):
Would we be seeing AA metal on LAX-SYD or is that staying on QF metal.

That would require a JV I think


AA and QF have a JBA.

Quoting FlyUS (Reply 86):
Why would US discontinue BOS-SYR, ROC, BUF, RIC, CUN, MBJ, PUJ and PLS after the merger? They've been flying these routes for many years. The merger only makes these routes more profitable

On the contrary, the merger makes the majority of US' network less profitable, and there will be plenty of cuts all over.



a.
User currently offlineFlyUS From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 28 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3975 times:

BOS for US is #2 for Dividend Miles members. I would guess AA has a huge BOS ff base. Why would a stronger BOS operation down grade or cut these cities?

User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 90, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 3959 times:

It has been talked about here at MIA for a while about the MIA/AUS.

What is AA waiting for to start that route?

As mentioned before AA should start MIA/SJC and possibly PDX.


User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 91, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 3886 times:

I know I'm probably going to get bashed for this.

Would AA be inclined to upgrading certain flights to HNL to 772's?
Or would that be to expensive to reconfigure the 772 or is it that
the 772's are not available or used on more profitable routes.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 92, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 3619 times:

Quoting mah4546 (Reply 88):

What is a JBA?
How does adding US and AA together make the existing US network LESS profitable???


User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1968 posts, RR: 21
Reply 93, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3561 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 92):
How does adding US and AA together make the existing US network LESS profitable???

The combined carrier's operating costs will be quite a bit higher than US's current cost structure.


User currently offlineJoePatroni707 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3537 times:

Quoting mia305 (Reply 91):
Would AA be inclined to upgrading certain flights to HNL to 772's?Or would that be to expensive to reconfigure the 772 or is it that the 772's are not available or used on more profitable routes.

Never say never but 99.9% unlikely. For some reason AA has never "really liked" flying to Hawaii. They are there for a place to burn AAdvantage miles. You will see the 763 from DFW for some time, possible after the merger an A330 on that route. The LAX-Hawaii will remain 757s till the A321s hit the route.


User currently offlineLonghornmaniac From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 3332 posts, RR: 45
Reply 95, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 3480 times:

Quoting FlyUS (Reply 89):
Why would a stronger BOS operation down grade or cut these cities?
Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 92):
How does adding US and AA together make the existing US network LESS profitable???
Quoting mah4546 (Reply 88):
On the contrary, the merger makes the majority of US' network less profitable, and there will be plenty of cuts all over.

To add on to Mark's explanation about why a stronger BOS operation would suffer, it's because even though there may be more elites, the additional costs associated with a merger even further reduce US' already very slim profit margin making these leisure routes (which almost by definition have very slim profit margins because you're not getting high-paying F customers). When you combine two entities as large as AA and US, costs go up. That much is a given. US has been able to rely on considerably lower costs than their competition to make a lot of these types of routes work. But when costs rise, routes that were profitable before are suddenly in the red. Doug Parker is, first and foremost, interested in profits, which is why you're going to see redundancies eliminated. This means a lot of US' leisure routes to the Caribbean, (including CLT) will be reduced or eliminated altogether in favor of strengthening connecting points. In the case of CLT, it will be a very formidable domestic hub-I would liken it to a mini-DFW connecting the East, but the international connections will be provided almost exclusively via MIA, which not only has high O&D to the Caribbean and South America, but is the absolute best point in the United States to serve the entire US as a connecting point.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 91):

I know I'm probably going to get bashed for this.

Would AA be inclined to upgrading certain flights to HNL to 772's?
Or would that be to expensive to reconfigure the 772 or is it that
the 772's are not available or used on more profitable routes.

No bashing, AA has absolutely no need to send their 772s to Hawaii. I have no actual numbers to back this up, but between the intense competition to Hawaii (read: low fares), and the comparatively long stage length, I imagine most carriers are operating at or below break even, or in best case scenario a very, very slight profit. Adding a 772 in place of a 763 (there's absolutely no way AA would consider it from LAX, so DFW is really the only location it might get considered) just adds more seats, meaning more capacity/supply that would further decrease the price. Furthermore, AA I'm certain has no desire to reconfigure a subfleet of these aircraft more suited to leisure destinations, and the large J cabins are much better suited for medium-profile international destinations that have demand for a good premium cabin.

  

Cheers,
Cameron


User currently offlineripcordd From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1176 posts, RR: 1
Reply 96, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3384 times:

DFW will prop see the 777 to HNL down the road they are all going 2 class like the 767 now serving Hawaii with Lie Flat seats. I love when people say air fare is cheap to Hawaii tell me where I can get some cheap fares to Hawaii in fact you can fly to Europe almost same length for half the cost you can goto Hawaii. But a 777 would bring down their ASMs on the route so I expect to see it over the summer and holiday season once they go 2 class.

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