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Turkish Aviation April 2013  
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Posted (1 year 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 15131 times:

Hello TK Aviation fans,
What a great spring day here in Istanbul, welcome to April!


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Wesley Moolman



Please continue here where we left off from last month, with TK's big narrowbody order, leased 77Ws, possible Australia link and Congrats to TK on its first day of non-stop IST-IAH.


Welcome,
TK787

149 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26501 posts, RR: 58
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 15045 times:

Quoting TK787 (Thread starter):
What a great spring day here in Istanbul, welcome to April!

Thanks for a new thread and wish you could send some of that weather here !

Love the 2020 logo jet. Fingers crossed for a successful bid . 166 days to go  

Im sure if they get it then TK would do a more substanial livery for it.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineMeCe From Turkey, joined Oct 2009, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 14756 times:

TC-JJG is scheduled for inaugural flight to Houston. She has 309 pax on board, good load for first flight.

User currently offlinegokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1123 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 14585 times:

I am sure the IAH route will go daily very soon. Is it aircraft availability issue or TK being cautious for a new route? I think the traffic that TK is going after here would need a daily frequency...


Gercekleri Tarih Yazar Tarihide Galatasaray
User currently offlinestylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2904 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14561 times:

Quoting MeCe (Reply 2):

TC-JJG is scheduled for inaugural flight to Houston. She has 309 pax on board, good load for first flight.

good loads are indeed expected; however, around 120 pax on this particular inaugural flight were invited guest of TK. I expect this route to be daily in a very short time.


User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14537 times:

Greetings from TK33, inaugural flight to Houston.

We are now somewhere over Reykjavik. It is nice to be on a inaugural flight. Only problem is the slow internet. I'll provide some more update later today from Houston.


User currently offlineGEsubsea From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14503 times:

Quoting gokmengs (Reply 3):
I am sure the IAH route will go daily very soon. Is it aircraft availability issue or TK being cautious for a new route? I think the traffic that TK is going after here would need a daily frequency...
Quoting stylo777 (Reply 4):
I expect this route to be daily in a very short time.

It's confirmed to be going 6X per week (according to Trade Arabia) starting in July....wish this was known sooner though as I am having to travel on this same flight in August but choosing from the current 4X per week schedule....preferred the Wed. flight option coming this summer.

Anyone know when you can get seat assignments? Is it still 90 - 100 days from departure or has that changed?

"Beginning in July, flights between the two cities will be increased to six times weekly with the addition of Wednesday and Sunday flights."

http://www.tradearabia.com/news/TTN_233249.html

[Edited 2013-04-01 09:01:41]

User currently offlineMeCe From Turkey, joined Oct 2009, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14463 times:

Yes TK33 will be 6x weekly from July 2013. After delivery of leased 777's some frames will be available for these increments. However this summer will be very chaotic in IST; daily departures hit over 900 from day one of summer schedule. Lets wait and see how TK will handle this situation.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 14447 times:

Here is insight to another TK route - the Thailand regional manager gave an interview.

The Bangkok market which TK has now served for 25-years is very strong. In 2012 monthly load factors reached a peak of 91%. They expect to average more than 88% LF for 2013.

BKK routes premium traffic demand in 2012 was up 24% while revenue increased by 36%. Economy traffic demand grew 14% with revenue was up 15% in 2012.

Interesting that while in the past traffic was primarily inbound to Thailand due to its popularity as a tourism destination, now TK is concentrating on selling growing number outbound seats from Thailand as well by pushing the benefits of its wide European network. It mentioned that Spain in particular is a popular beyond market due to TKs service to 5 Spanish cities there.

This year BKK will operate 11x weekly nonstops from IST with mix of A330/A340 equipment.

Turkish delight for airline's BKK route
http://www.bangkokpost.com/business/...kish-delight-for-airline-bkk-route

Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 6):
.wish this was known sooner

Its been loaded in GDS since March 16th.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 14260 times:

TK plans on adding Heraklion(Crete) Greece to its network.

Pending government approvals, route would start as soon as June.

Story:
http://english.capital.gr/News.asp?id=1763676

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinestylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2904 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 14151 times:

something regional:
Seabird Airlines started its operations between Istanbul and Bursa. A Twin Otter with 18 seats is used for prices as low as 100TRY.

Sounds quite interesting and should be tried out...


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 14106 times:

Back in the day TK served Bursa along with other nearby cities like Yalova, Tekirdag, Bandirma.

With some 2 million people Bursa is certainly not a small market, however its geography (being so close to Istanbul) and location of the Yenisehir airport has hampered service. Many people simply opt to take the fast boat ferry across to Istanbul.

Be interesting how Seabird Airlines does. However I do have doubts as they seem to come up with route ideas to only quietly drop them a but later.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14082 times:

according to a post in Indian aviation thread theres an Air India A310Fapparently in AI livery, stored at SAW, who does it belong to now any idea?

User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 14078 times:

Here is a short info about my experience today for ESB-IST-IAH flight.

I took TK2109 from ESB to IST on a A343 (TC-JDK Diyarbakir). I see that A343/332 are regular visitors to ESB for morning and evening connections to/from US & Far East flights. In the summer even 777 is used time to time for these connections. Also today TK2109 was totally packed. I also observed that interior of plane is in very good shape in comparison to its age.

A few weeks back, some one claimed that ESB-IST-XXX flights may be cheaper than IST-XXX flights: No it is NOT! As a regular purchaser of such tickets, I can say that at least 50 Euro have to be paid on top of IST-XXX ticket price unless there is a special promotion. However since IST-ESB flights are also packed, normally you have to pay more than that.

I went to TK Lounge at IST. Again it was crowded, not a single place to sit. Looks like TK Lounge is crowded 7/24. I think TK needs to extend it ASAP before it becomes to late (OK it is brand new, but TK is growing at 20%).

At the gate, there was a small welcome cocktail (of course no liqueurs!) which was also a nice touch.

Once we were airborne, Economy Minister Zafer Caglayan and Hamdi Topcu went through all the plane and welcomed everybody on board one by one.

Food was excellent as always. With Planet AVOD System TK has come a long way and it is OK for movies but for music/podcast/documentary content, it is still ages back in comparison to ICE of EK.

Apart from slow passport process, IAH was also a nice experience.


Houston we have a problem, TK33 is approaching!  


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13977 times:

Quoting TK105 (Reply 13):

Welcome to a.net and thanks for the short trip report.
I lived for a short time in Houston almost 20 years back and never thought about a TK nonstop flight from IST to IAH. I even played soccer for the awesome IstanbulSpor there, we had great uniforms.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26501 posts, RR: 58
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 13839 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 9):
TK plans on adding Heraklion(Crete) Greece to its network.

Yes hope it goes ahead. There is alot of scope for the increase in tourism. Also CFU has been mentioned as a seasonal service.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 13757 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 12):
according to a post in Indian aviation thread theres an Air India A310Fapparently in AI livery, stored at SAW, who does it belong to now any idea?

There was also a passenger A310. They are being parted out by MyTechnic.

Here is a photo by someone - you can see the freighter (N430AL) in the background
http://distilleryimage8.s3.amazonaws...6852606711e2a5b622000a9f1254_7.jpg

Here is the passenger one (N428AL) before the chop job
http://jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=7321146&nseq=0

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 13637 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 15):
Yes hope it goes ahead. There is alot of scope for the increase in tourism. Also CFU has been mentioned as a seasonal service.

I think its actually quite interesting how regional Greek authorities have been heavily lobbying TK and other Turkish companies the last year or so.

I think they realize one of the potential economic life lines they have is attracting Turkish visitors and business activity.

Hopefully its part of further détente between the nations making it a win-win for everyone in the long run.

Someone even suggested with the mess in Cyprus, there could be mutual benefits in encouraging new economic links between the sides also.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26501 posts, RR: 58
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13589 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
I think its actually quite interesting how regional Greek authorities have been heavily lobbying TK and other Turkish companies the last year or so.

Well after the Pasok era in Greece in the 80s Greece looked more West and less towards the East which I always said was not maybe the right idea. Greece always had decent relations with the East but did not take full advantage of these historical ties. Obviously the relationship between Greece and Turkey has had its rocky road but since 1999 things have changed. They realise now that you dont put all your eggs in one basket and you need to explore markets that were often there but never actively gone after.

On my trips to IST especially the ones from ATH-IST it is heartening to see flights full of Greek and Turkish businessmen and school exchange students. Who would have thought that such a route as Izmir, historically known as Smyrna would have direct flights ADB-ATH.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Someone even suggested with the mess in Cyprus, there could be mutual benefits in encouraging new economic links between the sides also.

We are a long way from a jointly run NIC   But it will certainly force people on both sides into considering things that were not before. The casinos in the North have seen the decline from money taken in from ''Southern'' tourists so this affects the whole Island. A strong economy on both sides is good for all.

I would love to see the transit figures for TK connecting from ATH. TK last year had a large advertising campaign and offered some amazing fares to the USA and Far East. When my Family were over in March they would have booked TK ATH-IST-DUB but they wanted to visit the UK too so BA was the only option. TK were the best value though.

Another issue of course is the visa problem. This is hampering the potential cross border tourism between Turkey and Greece and something needs to be done about it. Im sure a scheme could be arranged to ease the red tape.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineGEsubsea From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 183 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 13583 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 8):
Quoting GEsubsea (Reply 6):
.wish this was known sooner

Its been loaded in GDS since March 16th.

Understood, however these tickets were bought back in January when the original schedules were loaded for 4X weekly service.

[Edited 2013-04-02 11:33:10]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 13526 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 18):
ho would have thought that such a route as Izmir, historically known as Smyrna would have direct flights ADB-ATH.

Many might not know - But Athens was TK's first international route back in 1947 using a DC-3, and Izmir-Athens services operated for many decades until relations soured over Cyprus.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 13483 times:

Today THY had an invitation in Houston for celebrating IST-IAH inaugural flight.

There Hamdi Topcu announced that they expect to go double daily to IAH soon and next destinations in US will be SFO and ATL (!).



User currently offlinePbb152 From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 608 posts, RR: 2
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 13414 times:

Quoting TK105 (Reply 21):
There Hamdi Topcu announced that they expect to go double daily to IAH soon and next destinations in US will be SFO and ATL (!).

Double daily or daily? I know they are going to 6x weekly in July, and I would expect daily soon after. But I can't imagine they are already looking at going double daily.


User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 13355 times:

Quoting Pbb152 (Reply 22):
Double daily or daily? I know they are going to 6x weekly in July, and I would expect daily soon after. But I can't imagine they are already looking at going double daily.

He repeated twice in front of US Federal Congress Members of Texas, Mayor of Houston and Turkish Minister of Economy : Double daily!

Is he serious or is this just wishful thinking, I leave it up to you.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13326 times:

As usual lots of random commentary from senior executives.
I'd rather hear news it from Kotil the CEO whom is actually involved in day to day operations. Topcu as chairman is more involved in mega fleet orders, politics and PR events.


In more serious news - Lufthansa subsidiary will train 100 pilots cadets for THY with type rating on the Airbus A320 or Boeing 737NG.

http://atwonline.com/training/100-tu...-study-pilot-training-network-gmbh

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinethomasphoto60 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 3860 posts, RR: 23
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 13439 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 24):
As usual lots of random commentary from senior executives.

Agreed, playing to the local media and community.



"Show me the Braniffs"
User currently offlinetkfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 650 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 13445 times:

Turkish Airlines is leasing 4 A320 for six years. Does anyone know where they will come from??

SE notification from April 01

http://www.turkishairlines.com/tr-tr...kurumsal/yatirimci-iliskileri/2013


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 13562 times:

Quoting TK105 (Reply 21):

I knew he had a little bit of Texas in him. How far has he come from Rize.
Double Daily; I hesitate to believe.


User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13452 times:

I attended multiple meetings/presentations and will be attending more in Austin and Houston today and tomorrow.

Texas in general is the biggest trade and business partner of Turkey in US. Yesterday there was the signing ceremony of cooperation between Port of Istanbul and Port of Houston too. Texas is the preference of Turkish Companies for investment due to lower cost and taxation, its central location as well as easy and better quality of life. I also met with multiple Turkish Construction SME Companies that moved to Texas from other states due to stronger growth in this state.

Moreover I heard that there is strong demand for under belly cargo too. Especially IAH-IST direction's already fulling the cargo.

This altogether proves a growing healthy business traffic between IST-IAH. I think double daily potentially can be doable, perhaps by summer 2014 or 2015. TK does not have the equipment to do it earlier anyway.


User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13445 times:

Jat Airways has signed a code-share agreement with Atlas Jet via Istanbul to Antalya, Bodrum and Izmir. Ankara will be in cooperation with Austrian Airlines and Sun Express via Vienna.

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13436 times:

Quoting TK105 (Reply 28):
Yesterday there was the signing ceremony of cooperation between Port of Istanbul and Port of Houston too.

Also, I heard that yesterday there was a groundbreaking ceremony for a Borusan factory (close to Houston) that will eventually be employing 300 workers .


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 13245 times:

Finnair are to launch seasonal service to Antalya from June.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 16):

Thanks LAX.


User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 13013 times:

It seems that Adria will be launching charter flights from Maribor in Slovenia to Ercan/Tymvou airport in northern Cyprus. Naturally these flights can't be operated directly so I wonder if they might fly via Istanbul or via another city in Turkey.

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 12694 times:

Reporting from TK11 IST-JFK, -JJE, Dolmabahce. A five year girl just moved to the empty seat next to me. MORE WINE please!!!!!
5 empty seats on Comfort tonight.
J full
Y 80% full.
More tomorrow.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 34, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12400 times:

Good Morning from sunny NYC!
Good to be back home after 3 weeks in Istanbul.
More about TK11 last night;

-IST was a breeze, no lines at TK nor security, but they are re modeling around Starbucks and such, less room to lounge. Anyone know what are the plans?
-As usual one hour before departure no annoucements and people lined up and started the boarding process without any help or direction. No first class first, no handicapped, families with children first....Is there any policy about boarding at TK? Last time they used Groups, not this time.
-I was on the phone while entering the plane, the chef asked me to finish my phone call outside the plane. It is really hard to take any of that seriously, since you know...
-We were delayed 40 min. due to cargo and the A.C. was off, inside the plane baking. The usual FA'S running around, folding carts being pushed around...
-Slippers and headphones were already stuck inside the pockets for every seat. First time I've seen this. Later they came back with amenity kits.
-First time for me, FA asked a couple to fold their TVs for take off. Again no such precaution for cell phones or seatbelts, both during take off and landing. People were on the phone over JFK before landing.
-We had an American captain with Turkish FOs. I wonder what is the plan at TK once the next batch of WBs arrive.
-Bathrooms were kept pretty clean throughout the flight even with this high load. FA's courteous, Do&Co predictable.
For the last two flights I decided to skip the second meal and snacks and feel so much better. It makes me to have some dinner after arrival to help with jetlag. I recommend.


BUT the event of the night; 2 hour 5 minute wait at US Immigration line. (Latest budget cuts?) Absolutely not acceptable, with only 2-3 lanes open for US citizens. When I went through, the Immigration officer was complaining to me how tired she was!!! There were still few hundred people behind me. Some TK pax might have been in that line over 3 hours.
Time for me to get the Global Entry card.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26501 posts, RR: 58
Reply 35, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 12373 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 34):
-I was on the phone while entering the plane, the chef asked me to finish my phone call outside the plane. It is really hard to take any of that seriously, since you know...

Indeed  
Quoting TK787 (Reply 34):
-Slippers and headphones were already stuck inside the pockets for every seat. First time I've seen this. Later they came back with amenity kits.

I prefer the personal touch where they hand them out.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 34):
For the last two flights I decided to skip the second meal and snacks and feel so much better. It makes me to have some dinner after arrival to help with jetlag. I recommend.

Yes you can often over eat and feel sluggish. Sometimes its hard to resist.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 34):
There were still few hundred people behind me. Some TK pax might have been in that line over 3 hours.

Ouch that is a bit crazy and seems a bit stressful.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 12324 times:

Just back from IAH and waiting for my connecting flight to ESB.

Ground stuff is very inexperienced at IAH and to connect my luggage to ESB via IST, they kept me waiting for half an hour. They could not enter my M&S number in the system as well and they promised that they would do it manually once the check in finished. I got the feeling that I will need to claim those miles.

I went to United Lounge to wait for the flight. It has a nice club ambiance. But nothing compares to TK lounge at IST, they have no quality food (actually no food). There are some house wines and draft beers for free. You also need to pay if you would like to have a quality wine or liqueur.

Flight was packed: Y and C were almost full. Comfort Class had 4-5 empty seats. I noticed that quite a number of Indians are taking this flight.


User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12284 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 34):
-As usual one hour before departure no annoucements and people lined up and started the boarding process without any help or direction. No first class first, no handicapped, families with children first....Is there any policy about boarding at TK? Last time they used Groups, not this time.

This is the most inconsistent and ineffective thing at TK. They want to be a 5 star airline, however, the boarding process is comparable to boarding a bus at harem.

Here are the major problems with boarding TK:

-There is almost never any announcement
-Sometimes there is grouped boarding and sometimes not
-The arrival/departure screens turn from "Wait in Lounge" to "Last call", with no "Boarding" sometimes
-The IST lower level gate (where you have to take the bus) lounge is terrible. There are no places to sit and people crowd over around the doors
-Ground staff very inexperienced
-The boarding never starts at times printed on the boarding card (boarding cards show very early boarding times).



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 38, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12272 times:

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 37):

TK11 yesterday departure was 18:20 and boarding was to be 17:20.
I was the very first person at the gate and watched -JJE being serviced. Flight crew and Cleaning Crew arrived almost two hours before departure. Two teams of (at least a dozen people) cleaning crews (with vacuum cleaners, garbage bags..) entered the plane through stairs. On the left side of the plane 3 doors were open, and I can see two doors open on the Left side for Do&Co. It is amazing to see how many people trying to turn that plane around.
2 Hours of cleaning and prep, still;
-For Cargo, 40 min delay
-Slippers, headphones stuffed at seat backs
-Folding cart races back and forth the aisles
-No A.C. and temp inside the plane feels like 30 Celcius.
-FA's only make sure the window shades open, but don't enforce seatbelts, Personal Tv's, cell phone usage. I doubt that they enforce Exit Row people to have shoes on, headphones Off during takeoff and landing.

I always remember recent a KL 747 Combi flight to AMS from New York. FA's were so calm and everything was so orderly, I never realized that the doors were closed and we left the gate.
Yesterday, I saw a KL flight crew at Passport Control at IST and complimented them how wonderful and professional they looked. All nicely tailored uniforms, smiling faces, ready to work.


User currently offlineElPistolero From Canada, joined Feb 2012, 887 posts, RR: 3
Reply 39, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12281 times:

Had an interesting time with TK over the past two weeks.

YYZ-IST in Comfort: the load looked to be around 65-70%. A few empty seats, particularly towards the back of the cabin. J looked even emptier. Y looked packed - must have been running over 90%. The seats are showing wear and tear (the padding of the seat bottom was wearing thin). Catering was excellent - no discernible change in quality since my first Y+ flight exactly a year ago. WiFi on board was excellent - it worked everytime I tried. Live TV was a little dodgy - it stuttered a lot.

On transit in IST, went to a smaller security point (2 machines) - no priority lane there.

IST-YYZ in Comfort: Y was pretty full - only counted one or two empty seats, J looked to be somewhere between 40% and 50%. Y+ looked like a healthy 80% + - must have been around 6 - 8 empty seats. Y+ seems very popular with Europeans, Turks and Iranians. Again, top notch catering, WiFi and IFE worked without a hitch, and all in all an excellent flight, but the wear and tear was more obvious here - the plug point had no cover, which made it hard to charge (it was working, but the slightest movement could dislodge the plug).

Also had the VERY unfortunate experience of flying IST to DAC. The combination of being a TK E and a one-stop *A flight made TK my obvious choice, but if I were to judge my experience on that flight alone, I would choose 9W 2 stop in a heartbeat. Poor ground handling - flight delayed by 1 hour, but ground staff kept in the dark and all displays showed on-time departure. Poor souls had to deal with some very irate pax. Personally, I would have preferred to stay in the lounge than sit at the 300 gate level. Boarding was a mess - they really should assign more staff to certain flights, particularly those going to South Asia. No priority boarding for TK E+/E/*G announced. Quietly inquired about it midway through the board process and was escorted past the line by a poor lady who looked like she was about to cry. Should point out that boarding in IST was a mess even for IST-YYZ. No priority boarding announced (just one quick announcement of Group A), and it rapidly turned into a free for all.

The Meridiana 332 was, quite simply, atrocious in Y. It was simply appalling. There was no legroom to speak off, and while the generous recline was somewhat helpful, the absence of IFE was quite jarring for a flight this length. In half a mind to send TK a very irritated letter about how inconsistent their product was. The bright spots - excellent catering and I finally got my hands on the pencil case amenity kit. Love it.

This was redeemed somewhat by an excellent experience in a 333 on the return leg. The slide forward mechanism was a bit odd. TK's Y breakfast (the cheese pastry with the spinach and the grilled cheese sandwich) is undoubtedly my favorite airline breakfast by a country mile. Got a more basic amenity kit - no box.

Pleased to note that the cabin crew are looking less flustered these days - lots of service with a smile. The lounge in IST was brilliant as always, though it does seem to get a little too crowded at times. Some lounge users might benefit from some lessons in etiquette - the greed on display when that delciious Pide was available was a bit baffling. The concierge I encountered on both legs was very pleasant on the eyes.

All in all, apart from the Meridiana experience and the boarding in IST, everything was top notch - no discernible deterioration in the quality of service (wear and tear notwithstanding) and the crew seem to have stepped up their game. Security in IST was pretty fast too. Was with non-*G travel companions, so didn't try to use the priority security lane (there seemed to be one), but security took less than 5 min. Hope they keep comfort class on this route once the new non-Y+ 777s are inducted.


User currently offlineElPistolero From Canada, joined Feb 2012, 887 posts, RR: 3
Reply 40, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 12259 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 38):
-FA's only make sure the window shades open, but don't enforce seatbelts, Personal Tv's, cell phone usage. I doubt that they enforce Exit Row people to have shoes on, headphones Off during takeoff and landing.

Ah yes, forgot about that. They enforced seatbelts, cell phone usage and window shades on all my flights, and collected headphones prior to descent. On YYZ-IST in comfort they made us stow PTVs, but on IST-YYZ, some folk definitely had their PTVs out - albeit without headphones.

I found that very strange too - particularly since I mostly fly AC which is very stringent about most of these (except cellphone usage - the announcements are made, but I've seen people visibly listen to their iPods/phones without the FAs saying anything).


User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 674 posts, RR: 3
Reply 41, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 12198 times:

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 39):
Also had the VERY unfortunate experience of flying IST to DAC. The combination of being a TK E and a one-stop *A flight made TK my obvious choice, but if I were to judge my experience on that flight alone, I would choose 9W 2 stop in a heartbeat. Poor ground handling - flight delayed by 1 hour, but ground staff kept in the dark and all displays showed on-time departure. Poor souls had to deal with some very irate pax. Personally, I would have preferred to stay in the lounge than sit at the 300 gate level. Boarding was a mess - they really should assign more staff to certain flights, particularly those going to South Asia. No priority boarding for TK E+/E/*G announced. Quietly inquired about it midway through the board process and was escorted past the line by a poor lady who looked like she was about to cry. Should point out that boarding in IST was a mess even for IST-YYZ. No priority boarding announced (just one quick announcement of Group A), and it rapidly turned into a free for all.

The Meridiana 332 was, quite simply, atrocious in Y. It was simply appalling. There was no legroom to speak off, and while the generous recline was somewhat helpful, the absence of IFE was quite jarring for a flight this length. In half a mind to send TK a very irritated letter about how inconsistent their product was. The bright spots - excellent catering and I finally got my hands on the pencil case amenity kit. Love it.

I have had the exact similar asymmetric experience in last December ... in both directions.

JFK-IST ... 77W Y+ ... Fabulous flights ... lots of food, legroom, IFE, clean-large lavatories ... etc
and
IST-DAC ... 332 Y ... simply pathetic ... delay in flights, poor communication at the gate, pre-assigned seats changed without any explanation, worn-out seats, broken hardware, no IFE at all, no cabin lights (!!!), cabin crew avoiding contact (to avoid the questions and complaints of course). I wrote back to TK immediately ... got some BLAH BLAH reply about a month later.

I am glad that you atleast got a new/clean 333 on the way back. I do not plan to use TK on the DAC route until they regularly use 'standard' planes ... how long are these Meridiana 332s gonna stay?


User currently offlineElPistolero From Canada, joined Feb 2012, 887 posts, RR: 3
Reply 42, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 12150 times:

Quoting ASA (Reply 41):
I am glad that you atleast got a new/clean 333 on the way back. I do not plan to use TK on the DAC route until they regularly use 'standard' planes ... how long are these Meridiana 332s gonna stay?

Only because it was an open-jaw and I didn't fly back from DAC. It appears as though that Meridiana aircraft is dedicated to DAC, not unlike my experience from DEL last year - identical situation to yours, with seats being changed because the scheduled 333 was swapped for a 332 in both directions. Those 332s - no IFE at all, were apparently returned later last year - only to be replaced by the Meridiana crap.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 43, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12026 times:

Quoting ElPistolero (Reply 42):
It appears as though that Meridiana aircraft is dedicated to DAC

It seems that since the onset of the S13 schedule, the DAC route has reverted to the two leased A332s TC-JNF and TC-JNG, while the Meridiana aircraft seems to now operate Dubai and Europe trips.


User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 12025 times:

Again I got upgraded to C on TK2170 to ESB. If you are a EP card holder, with 1/3 probability for evening departures to ESB you get an upgrade. These flights are mostly overbooked.

On TK2170, there was another surprise : All stuff was from XQ. We are used to it for SAW-ESB flights or Anadolujet, but now IST-ESB flights also?

I wonder if TK management does it to
- fight against the labour union
- cope with the expansion
- lower the costs
- combination of some of the above

Whatever the reason is, as a IMKB (Istanbul Stock Exchange) company, they are supposed to be transparent on such decisions with proper announcements to public with reasons. I wonder if this is in line with the law?


User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 11785 times:

I guess this is not good publicity for Turkish Airlines. The French daily, Le Figaro, in an article on the 'Islamic drifts of Erdogan's Turkey' starts by mentioning Turkish Airlines.

The article states that you can choose to either watch a film during the flight or listen to the Quran on one of the channels. It also mentions the alcohol ban on some flights and then moves on to the proposed uniforms which caused an uproar in Turkey.

It basically says that Turkish Airlines suffers because of the political agenda of its nation's leader.

You can read the rest of the article here, though it is in French:
http://www.lefigaro.fr/mon-figaro/20...mistes-de-la-turquie-d-erdogan.php


User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 46, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11661 times:

Well whatever they might be trying to do, I did not know that Turkish Airlines offers Quran readings on its flights. Is this new and is it on all its flights or only on a few ones?

User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11654 times:

Well yes French in recent years becoming more allergic to Islam it seems. Sad but true.

If TK has IFE offering of spiritual Quran, that is smart. They look to serve their customers. Also they are not alone. remember EK had Quran recitation along with video channel on Islamic literature.
Some airlines even recite a passage of Quran on PA system before takeoff. So if TK have a channel on IFE, it does not hurt or bother anyone. Some people want to listen to Lady Gaga, others find peace in Quran reading.


User currently offlineN14AZ From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2607 posts, RR: 25
Reply 48, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11649 times:

Currently, I am sitting in the TK lounge in IST and outside I saw an IB A346 parked at the Northern end of the apron, jyst where TKs mx-area starts. Does anybody know why it's here?

User currently offlineTurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1436 posts, RR: 8
Reply 49, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11629 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 49):

Currently, I am sitting in the TK lounge in IST and outside I saw an IB A346 parked at the Northern end of the apron, jyst where TKs mx-area starts. Does anybody know why it's here?

The aircraft brought in the Real Madrid football team...



Coffee - Tea or Me?
User currently offlineTurkish350XWB From Switzerland, joined Jan 2009, 465 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11625 times:

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 49):
Currently, I am sitting in the TK lounge in IST and outside I saw an IB A346 parked at the Northern end of the apron, jyst where TKs mx-area starts. Does anybody know why it's here?

Maybe the Real Madrid squad for the Champions League game on Tuesday?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26501 posts, RR: 58
Reply 51, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 11055 times:

Its certainly a shame if Comfort Class goes. It is a great product and as above gives people an alternative if they cant afford or justify J but want some extra space and comfort.


AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 11080 times:

I was sad reading the Comfort Class news, I enjoyed flying in Comfort Class and had decided to fly only on CC on long hauls. Economy class seats in TK 777s and 330s are very tight, it is impossible for tall people to spend 10+ hours (LAX flights take 13-14 hours) in those seats.

Generally the business class seats are very expensive and CC gave us a great opportunity to have more space while flying.

- Air France has Premium economy with I think 38' seats.
- British airways have it in long haul routes
- KLM has it in long haul



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineMeCe From Turkey, joined Oct 2009, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 11051 times:

TK started Comfort class too big on planes, 63 seats. A new product may take time make money; at now it is started make money. They have to stay calm and not throw this product...

User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1832 posts, RR: 23
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 10933 times:

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 52):
I was sad reading the Comfort Class news,

What news?

I haven't seen any concrete news on them getting rid of CC.


User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days ago) and read 10760 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 54):
I haven't seen any concrete news on them getting rid of CC.

Yesterday there was a post with the link but I think it got deleted.. So here it is, only in Turkish though

http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...erleri/thyde-bir-donemin-sonu.html



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 56, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 10635 times:

Fresh news from "Emrecan", link TK website;
TK orders 70+25 options of mix of 737s
20 x 738s, 65 x 738Max, 10 x 739Max
Deliveries between 2016-2021
http://www.turkishairlines.com/tr-tr...kurumsal/yatirimci-iliskileri/2013 (Turkish Only)

[Edited 2013-04-09 05:43:27]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 57, posted (1 year 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 10385 times:

TK getting 3 more flight simulators - A32x, 737NG and 777.
Will bring simulator count at the training center to 10.

http://atwonline.com/training/turkis...ining-center-adds-three-simulators

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 58, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 10091 times:

-TK's Kuala Lumpur flights to start on April 25th 3 x weekly, to go to 4 x weekly on June 17th. Hope this time around it works out for TK.
-TK's latest 738 joined the fleet TC-JHS. Another 321 made its first flight to join shortly.

With the latest WB and NB orders, TK has more planes on order now that it currently flies. Crazy!


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 59, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10075 times:

Looking at another thread this disaster scenario comes to my mind;
Forget about TK getting rid of Comfort Class on the new batch of 77W;

-The Survey Says...
In 2010 only 15% of the 77W deliveries were 10-abreast
whereas
In 2012 69% of the 77W deliveries are 10-abreast.

If TK were to go in the way of AF/KL/EK and go to two class on the 77W;
by going down to 60" on the J seat from the current 78", TK can fit 42 seats in J
and going 3-4-3 seating on the remainder of the cabin, TK 77Ws will have;

42J and 385Y seats.

Let's not give them any ideas!


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 60, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 10076 times:

TK is working on yet another C class concept for the future 77W deliveries.

From what I have heard it will be more premium than today product and rival F class more. I think seeing the F class product on the Jet Airways leases left TK with some ideas. As C class product upgrades move fast in the industry I think TK want to have something that will remain top end for a while. Also should help TK continue to attracting an ever higher end traveler and hopefully lessen need to discount as much.

For Y class, I would not discount going 10 across. It has a very compelling business case, especially for carrier like TK that does not earn the strongest yields.

Regarding Comfort Class, I absolutely would hate to see it be cut. It was a well timed and excellent offering which brought TK many accolades, however it was configured with way too many seats from the start which left TK in a difficult spot with pricing and justifying the onboard floor space.
I can also understand the issues and complaints they have been getting from narrow body transfer passengers and those flying on routes with mixed equipment not having comfort on the 330/340 fleets.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 61, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9976 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 58):
-TK's Kuala Lumpur flights to start on April 25th 3 x weekly, to go to 4 x weekly on June 17th. Hope this time around it works out for TK.

They are not dropping any destinations so it will more than likely work.


User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 1 week 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 9986 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
I can also understand the issues and complaints they have been getting from narrow body transfer passengers and those flying on routes with mixed equipment not having comfort on the 330/340 fleets.

I think there is another problem for TK 777 Comfort Class: When TK uses these planes for flights to ESB, ADB, DXB, JED, LHR, etc. they have a big problem! Probably Y passengers are seated in CC. This is not only loss of revenue but also a complain from other Y passengers who are sitting at the back.


User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (1 year 1 week 18 hours ago) and read 9736 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
For Y class, I would not discount going 10 across. It has a very compelling business case, especially for carrier like TK that does not earn the strongest yields.

With the current seat pitch of the TK 777s, it is not possible to make 10 abreast. TK has 31 and 32 inch seat pitch in their 777s, when you make this 17 inch seat width (10 abreast), average sized people will start to feel very uncomfortable, let alone the flights for these 777s are all above 10 hours, LAX nearing 14 hours.

The 10 abreast 777s have 33 or 34 inch seat pitch. Those airlines compensate 2 or 3 inches of leg room for 1 inch of seat width. In total, for the same amount of floor space, you get roughly the same amount of seats.

Check out Emirates vs TK's 77Ws. So it is either 10 with larger legroom, or 9 with tight legroom.

10 with tight legroom = charter quality flight



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineASA From Bangladesh, joined Dec 2010, 674 posts, RR: 3
Reply 64, posted (1 year 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 9647 times:

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 63):
he 10 abreast 777s have 33 or 34 inch seat pitch. Those airlines compensate 2 or 3 inches of leg room for 1 inch of seat width. In total, for the same amount of floor space, you get roughly the same amount of seats.

Check out Emirates vs TK's 77Ws. So it is either 10 with larger legroom, or 9 with tight legroom.

Very interesting - I did not know that!

So, little bit off the topic here, what is the strategy that guides the airlines to choose a 9 or 10-abreast seating if the total layout seat number does not change much? I mean, why doesn't EK use the seemingly more spacious 9 abreast seating like TK, QR, etc? Any long term benefits or plans to have 1-2 class scenarios, where a 10-abreast may give more yield?

Experts, thinkers, flamers ... please weigh in  


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 65, posted (1 year 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 9620 times:

There is no set rule about pitch in 9 vs 10 across. Airlines can pick what they want.

Also pitch is a dubious measure in reality. For example the newest set of thin line seats while 1-2-inches less actually provide more space for the passenger then older style seats with same floor spacing.

So 10-across does not need higher pitch numbers as some rule. 32inches using new seats is quite viable.

At the end there is a growing chorus for 10-across on the 777 (Air France, Air NZ, AA, Emirates, KLM, Etihad, TAM, Aeroflot, etc.. ) as the economics are quite compelling.
Even giving up one row of seats for those that want more pitch, having 30 added rows of 1-more seat adds up to nice bump in revenue potential.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (1 year 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 9549 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 65):
There is no set rule about pitch in 9 vs 10 across. Airlines can pick what they want.

Also pitch is a dubious measure in reality. For example the newest set of thin line seats while 1-2-inches less actually provide more space for the passenger then older style seats with same floor spacing.

Whatever. You get the idea. Of course there is no set rule, this is not the constitution  

General industry practice (except for charter ops and planes like AF Caribbean 77Ws) is narrow seats-higher pitch, wider seats-tighter pitch



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 67, posted (1 year 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 9290 times:

I read part of the CED report ( Cevresel Etki Degerlendirme) on the 3rd. Istanbul report from airporthaber; http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...alimani-ced-raporu-yayimlandi.html
and very detailed report and I will point out some interesting stuff;
-1. Phase will have 2 pax and 1 Cargo runways with the main terminal and even though it is expected to be finished in 42 months, it shows to be in operation in late 2017, more likely in 2018.
2.Phase will include the 4th runway and another terminal by 2024
3.Phase will include the 5th runway and another terminal by 2031
4.Phase will include the 6th runway and another terminal by 2038

-5 of the runways will be North South direction, 1 runway in the East West direction.
-1 runway to be 4100m. x 60m, 4 runways to be 3750m x 60m and the last one to be 3500m x 60m.

Here is some crazy math: when calculating landings per runway... they use an average of 300pax a plane (they average it from A380 (850pax??) and 737 (150pax), but they take into account more 737s than 380s. Still 300 pax/plane??

150million pax divided by 365 days= 410,000 pax daily
410,000 pax/day divided by 300pax/plane = 1370 planes/day
1370 planes/day divided by 24 hours = 57 landings/hour (not taking into account rush hour)
Planning on 3 simultaneous runway operations and that means 19planes/hour/per runway.
Which means, 3mile separation or 100second separation; one landing every 3.15minutes.

Some other numbers;
-The new airport will be built at 105m. elevation. Right now the land elevation is somewhere between 160m and -37m.
Which means 2,500,000,000m3 of land fill. How many truck loads/trips is that?
-During construction they are planning on having 2000 trucks, 500 cars, 600 medium trucks. That will add to the traffic nearby.
-When completed they are expecting 100,000 cars to travel to the new airport daily and they are expecting a total of 850,000kg of garbage daily.


Here is a pic of the 4 Phases of Construction;



User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (1 year 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 9044 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 67):

This project looks like an environmental disaster on its own. According to report, daily expected emission of exhaust gasses (both planes and cars) when full capacity are as follows:

CO : 53.225 kg/day
NOx : 32.470 kg/day
SOx : 96.300 kg/day

On an other note, Hamdi Topcu says that Houston flights already have a load factor of 93% and by june it is expected that no seat will be available:

http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...udan-onemli-aciklamalar-43987.html (Turkish)


User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 8666 times:

I flew IST-ESB yesterday and back. On the IST-ESB route, the flight showed an A333, and when checking in it was still an A333. I got on the bus and it stopped in front of a 77W !

15 minutes ago during the check in it was an A333 and changed to a 77W. Imagine the chaos when 250 passengers tried to board the plane randomly from the front and the back (the busses left people randomly and there was no one to guide on the ground) and inside the plane people going from all the way to the front from the very back of the plane. On top of that, some poeple didnt have their seats and in some seats double passengers were booked (the checkins were made according to an A333).

All the economy passengers were seated in the economy rows and comfort class was left completely empty.

In my opinion, TK is light years away from being a 5-Star airline. Albeit my small experience with 5 star airlines and some 4 star airlines, their service and quality level is so consistent that in a 100 flights you get always the same things. But TK needs to understand that service and quality is not buying new airplanes and serving good food (btw. which is getting worse and worse)



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 70, posted (1 year 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 8595 times:

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 69):

Ha ha ha...
This genius way of boarding plane from front and the back at the same time without directing people is unaccaptable.
I have seen this before, but as an a.netter I know, seat 26D on a 738 is easily reachable from the back door. Most people have no idea, so in the middle of the plane one person trying to reach row 5 another get to the back. Crazy!
Where there is no rule of the law, there will be rule of the jungle.

What happens to the crew of the 77W. Now that they have done a short hop to ESB, they have to get back to IST. Give or take 3 hours on the clock and fly another 10+ hours????


User currently offlineMeCe From Turkey, joined Oct 2009, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 71, posted (1 year 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8502 times:

It is very common jump on mess after a long flight. Every Time without exception there is mess at the gate. Some people waiting strollers, some trying reach to wheelchair. There always some crowd of service staff waiting to enter to plane because they have to turn the plane in 90 minutes for another ER flight. Weird thing is passenger relations staff is no interest for passengers, they always busy with another thing. If you have missing stroller or some another issue you are deep in ocean no one will help you.

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 72, posted (1 year 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 8506 times:

Latest results from TK: http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-fr...te/investor_relations/special/2013
16.04.2013
Traffic results for the period of January-March 2013 are as follows:
During the period of January-March 2013 total passenger carried has increased by 26%, reaching to 10 million passengers from 8 million passengers for the same period of 2012. Increase in number of passengers carried in domestic and international lines is 16% and 33%, respectively.
International Business/Comfort Class and Transfer passengers increased by 21% and 38%, respectively for the same period.
L/F increased by 5,1 point to 77,9%.
ASK with 21% increase reached to 25 bn during the period January-March 2013 from 20.6 bn for the same period of 2012. Increase in ASK in domestic and international lines is 14% and 22%, respectively.
RPK with 30% increase reached to 19.5 bn during the period of January-March 2013 from 15 bn for the same period of 2012. Increase in RPK in domestic and international lines is 17% and 32%, respectively.
Number of landing 64.360 for the period of January-March 2012 has increased to 77.901 in 2013 (21%).
During the period January-March 2013, number of destinations has increased by 15%, reaching to 219 from 191 for the same period in 2012.
Cargo/Mail carried during the period of January-March 2013 reached to 122.932 tons from 108.252 tons in 2012 (+14).


User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 73, posted (1 year 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 8435 times:

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 69):

Today I had a day return trip as ESB-SAW-ESB. In the morning on TK and late afternoon return flight on Anadolujet, all operated by XQ.

Compared to TK stuff, I must admit that XQ FAs are much more good looking, relaxed and smiling, though they are said to be paid less than half.

Moreover I also feel like XQ pilots are flying softer on IST/SAW-ESB sector. I mean TK pilots are like kamikaze compared to XQ (sorry if I offended anybody). (Most likely) This is just to my perception due to never ending stress level on TK operations.


User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 74, posted (1 year 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8389 times:

Quoting TK105 (Reply 73):
though they are said to be paid less than half.

Does anyone know how much TK pays its pilots and cabin crew?


User currently offlineNuD38 From Germany, joined Jan 2011, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 8246 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting JU068 (Reply 74):
Does anyone know how much TK pays its pilots and cabin crew?

This might give you a clue about senior pilot wages:
"Pilots with Mr. Ennis's experience earn $230,000 a year and qualify for a pension of $10,000 a month if they retire at age 60. At Turkish Airlines, it is estimated that he will earn $150,000 annually."

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/globe-i...top/article1939277/?service=mobile


User currently offlinestylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2904 posts, RR: 12
Reply 76, posted (1 year 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8148 times:

Are TK 332/333/343 pilots certified to also operate the 330 freighter or are the pax and cargo ops/scheduling different?

User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 77, posted (1 year 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8195 times:

Quoting NuD38 (Reply 75):

Wow... that's really good then! Thanks.


User currently offlineTurkishWings From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1436 posts, RR: 8
Reply 78, posted (1 year 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8120 times:

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 76):
Are TK 332/333/343 pilots certified to also operate the 330 freighter or are the pax and cargo ops/scheduling different?

I know a 330 pilot who does both pax and cargo...



Coffee - Tea or Me?
User currently offlineNuD38 From Germany, joined Jan 2011, 66 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (1 year 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 8038 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 69):
15 minutes ago during the check in it was an A333 and changed to a 77W

I believe this is a bigger issue than just having 5*. My idea is that TK had a system issue which did not show the correct assignment. Switching from A333 to 77W cannot be done in 15 minutes. Indeed, this should be planned a few days/weeks earlier. Crew scheduling, maintenance requirements etc...


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1832 posts, RR: 23
Reply 80, posted (1 year 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 7872 times:

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 55):
Yesterday there was a post with the link but I think it got deleted.. So here it is, only in Turkish though

http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili....html
Quoting TK105 (Reply 62):
I think there is another problem for TK 777 Comfort Class: When TK uses these planes for flights to ESB, ADB, DXB, JED, LHR, etc. they have a big problem! Probably Y passengers are seated in CC. This is not only loss of revenue but also a complain from other Y passengers who are sitting at the back.
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
I can also understand the issues and complaints they have been getting from narrow body transfer passengers and those flying on routes with mixed equipment not having comfort on the 330/340 fleets.

My takeaway from that is the biggest complaint happens when there is equipment change or when passengers change aircraft at transit. And to some extent having been a CC pax last year I can understand the complaint. I got great treament from YYZ to IST with CC. And then I got on a more cramped 330 in Y to BOM. I knew this at the time of booking. But I can see how some passengers might not realize that when booking and feel it was bait and switch when there's not CC for some leg of the flight.

To me, this does not mean they should be cutting CC. It means they should be rolling out across the entire long haul fleet to improve consistency of their product offering.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
Regarding Comfort Class, I absolutely would hate to see it be cut. It was a well timed and excellent offering which brought TK many accolades, however it was configured with way too many seats from the start which left TK in a difficult spot with pricing and justifying the onboard floor space.

Are load factors really that bad in CC? We are talking less than 20% of the seats. On my trip over Christmas 2011/2012, I saw that cabin as virtually sold out in both directions. I'd be curious to know which routes they have issues selling Y+ on. I'm due to fly in a few weeks on TK in CC again. I'll do a quick headcount when I get the chance.

For me anyway, if CC ditches Y+, I'll have less of a reason to travel with TK. That's for sure. There's lots of competition in the Y pool.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 60):
For Y class, I would not discount going 10 across. It has a very compelling business case, especially for carrier like TK that does not earn the strongest yields.

For sure. I would hope though that TK stays with 9-abreast and goes to 10-abreast when they get the 777-X.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 81, posted (1 year 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 7847 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 80):
Are load factors really that bad in CC?

I've done 8 CC segments in the last 11 months and seldom it is full or looks full. I would say an average of 60% load on my flights, mostly betweeen JFK-IST.


User currently offlineankaraflyjet From Turkey, joined Mar 2007, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 82, posted (1 year 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7828 times:

Removal of CC is a very wrong decision for TK. If they would have a consistent product throughout their fleet they would not take this decision. They should revise the plan, downsize the CC cabin, add more to C class and try to harmonize all wide body a/c with the new lay out.

All major competitors of TK like BA, AF and LH (LH decided to launch Y+) offer Y+ of course in no way comparable to TK's level of in flight service so TK should as I said revisit this decision. Never too late !!!


User currently offlineradiopolitic From Canada, joined Jan 2009, 113 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (1 year 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 7807 times:

My father flies TK CC YYZ-IST and back maybe 8 times a year and says its always 90% full at a minimum. I think the YYZ-IST sector is consistently full but there are other routes where it isn't as utilized.

User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (1 year 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7786 times:

The new flight IST-SCQ-IST (3xw) starting in May is going to be merged with BIO (4xw) from W13 (IST-BIO-SCQ-BIO-IST) going daily.

User currently offlinevincewy From Taiwan, joined Oct 2005, 767 posts, RR: 1
Reply 85, posted (1 year 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7776 times:

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 82):
Removal of CC is a very wrong decision for TK.

Maybe I missed the update but has this been officially announced yet (removal)? For the same reason I've been scrambling to rack up miles to get to Elite Plus this year.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 86, posted (1 year 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 7760 times:

Regarding CC bookings, remember TK has had a hard time finding the optimal price point for the cabin and has had to discount it compared to its original plans.
Also CC is often available at check-in for mere €200 more, so just because its full at departure time does not mean TK made much money on the space unfortunately.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 87, posted (1 year 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7699 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 84):

Is this to reduce congestion at Istanbul or are these routes not performing as expected?


User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 7675 times:

Whenever I was in CC, it was packed. Either full or above 90%.

My opinion about CC is that TK should reduce the number of seats, say, from 63 to 40, but put CC seats in every type in the fleet. Even in the domestic 737s and 320s. For the narrowbody planes, it could be only a single row of seats with larger legroom and the same seats as others in the plane. It is not hard to fill 6 seats in a narrowbody and it would make the entire fleet consistent. Then, CC can be recognized as a brand and people would book it without a doubt in their mind if they will end up in economy. It is all about consistency, consistency and consistency.



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (1 year 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 7640 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 86):
Also CC is often available at check-in for mere €200 more, so just because its full at departure time does not mean TK made much money on the space unfortunately.

It could also be that due to overbooking, economy passengers could be upgraded to CC.



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 90, posted (1 year 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7504 times:

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 89):
It could also be that due to overbooking, economy passengers could be upgraded to CC.

And if you have the seats to move people to in CC class, it means you were not selling those CC seats to being with. That is the problem.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 91, posted (1 year 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7493 times:

Quoting Northstar80 (Reply 88):
but put CC seats in every type in the fleet. Even in the domestic 737s and 320s.

From a business stand point, it makes much more sense to get rid of CC from 12 planes and go to a 2-class airline. And few years later to realize a segment in the market and bring it back.


User currently offlineumit From Turkey, joined May 2009, 127 posts, RR: 3
Reply 92, posted (1 year 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 7491 times:

When I looked the management of TK on what they have done in last several years , their pros are more then cons. Therefore , whatever they decide it would probably be the good one .

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 93, posted (1 year 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 7412 times:

TK have sponsored weather updates at a local private news channel here, its showing a TK aircraft flying between different destinations each marked with TK logo, when its lands at the place the weather info pops up.

[Edited 2013-04-18 11:56:43]

User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (1 year 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7374 times:

Anybody has information about LH MUC-ESB and FRA-ESB flight statistics? I do not know if it is possible to get below information but any input will be appreciated:

- Total number of passengers
- Percentage of connecting traffic and where to
- Percentage of Turkish and non Turkish passengers
- Percentage of EU citizens


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1832 posts, RR: 23
Reply 95, posted (1 year 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7272 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 91):
From a business stand point, it makes much more sense to get rid of CC from 12 planes and go to a 2-class airline. And few years later to realize a segment in the market and bring it back.

How does that make sense?

LH is considering Y+. Air Canada is dipping its toe in the water. British Airways, Virign, Air France, etc. all have great Premium Economy products.

I don't see how it's sensible for TK to give up the brand strength it has in this sector and then fight to re-establish it later.

TK needs to improve consistency across its product. Doing that by taking away service is not going to win it any accolades.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 96, posted (1 year 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7226 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 95):
How does that make sense?

It doesn't. But TK is thinking about getting rid of CC 2-3 years after offering it. Trial-Error, changing world economy, other factors....
TK leased 9W 77Ws first, then ordered its own 12 frames. Less then two years later leases the same 9W 77Ws, while ordering more 77Ws.
See the pattern? Constantly adjusting their business plan, whatever makes sense at the time.
In a perfect world, TK would have ordered more than 12 x 77Ws the first time, and had more J seats, less CC seats in them, marketed/priced CC better and kept going with that plan. But I guess in real business life, TK constantly adjusts products even it hurts their brand and things are not consistent inside the fleet. Most important for TK is their bottom line.

So, it is not farfetched to think, they get rid of CC in the near future to increase profits, and might come back with it when they figure out a better scenario.


User currently offlineNorthstar80 From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 97, posted (1 year 22 hours ago) and read 7132 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 95):
LH is considering Y+. Air Canada is dipping its toe in the water. British Airways, Virign, Air France, etc. all have great Premium Economy products.

Agreed. One good thing about their solid business plan is that they have it almost in their entire fleet.



You have to have your heart in the business and the business in your heart. -Thomas J Watson
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1832 posts, RR: 23
Reply 98, posted (1 year 10 hours ago) and read 6962 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 96):
See the pattern?

I see poor planning or failure to anticipate their growth. One cannot, for example, imagine EK making such a mistake.

They are leasing, simply because, they didn't plan well for growth. And now they are going to allow their leased aircraft dictate product across the board? Seems like poor decision-making to me.

Quoting TK787 (Reply 96):
So, it is not farfetched to think, they get rid of CC in the near future to increase profits, and might come back with it when they figure out a better scenario.

That's based on an assumption that they'll sell all the extra J and/or Y seats they'll get from ditching the CC cabin.


User currently offlineankaraflyjet From Turkey, joined Mar 2007, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 99, posted (1 year 7 hours ago) and read 6881 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 98):

I can't agree more, well said.

Very unprofessional approach to fleet and product planning. Yes, airlines can take advantage of last minute deals in a/c leasing but this became a customary habit for TK, this is not a charter airline for God sake, more consistent and well managed business plan please !!!!


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 100, posted (1 year 7 hours ago) and read 6865 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 98):
That's based on an assumption that they'll sell all the extra J and/or Y seats they'll get from ditching the CC cabin.


From personal experience I have seen people flying CC since they couldn't find J seats. Similarly I have seen people given CC seats (upgrades) since Y is full.
TK has more demand on J and Y, at least from my experience on the JFK-IST route and I have heard similar stories from other routes where 77W fleet flies.
Personally I love the CC, and will fly TK on CC all the time, which I am doing currently. But I can see the empty seats and they need to do something. I, like many others, would love to see CC seats to go down from the current 9 rows to 5 or so, and that should fix it.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 98):
I see poor planning or failure to anticipate their growth.

-Yep. I still hear stuff from the TK top brass; "By 2020, TK fleet will be 350-400 frames". That is 7 years from now and 50 planes is a bit much.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 98):
imagine EK making such a mistake.

Well, we all make mistakes. EK can afford to make mistakes, or can afford to order dozens of 380s at a time, because of they are backed by UAE.
Heck, look at Boeing making mistakes with the 787 and still fixing it.

So, TK planning is not pretty, but seems to be working for the moment.


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1832 posts, RR: 23
Reply 101, posted (1 year 4 hours ago) and read 6829 times:

If the 9W AUD hub plan comes to fruition, TK won't be getting any 9W leased aircraft. Time for TK to start planning properly.

User currently offlineupwardfacing From British Indian Ocean Territory, joined Apr 2013, 90 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (1 year ago) and read 6847 times:

TK Comfort Class is a great concept and great for passengers, but TK arguably made the cabin too large.

I think the fundamental problem is that in most countries without a good-sized upper-middle class, the demographic that is flying internationally skews either budget or luxury. People in those countries who can afford to pay for CC would rather jump straight to business class, and frequent flyers would rather be upgraded straight from Y to J.


User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 103, posted (1 year ago) and read 6862 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 101):
If the 9W AUD hub plan comes to fruition, TK won't be getting any 9W leased aircraft

The deal for a 2-year least of 3 B77W aircraft has been signed. I do not believe that 9W will be able to get out of that.


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1832 posts, RR: 23
Reply 104, posted (12 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 6678 times:

Quoting upwardfacing (Reply 102):
I think the fundamental problem is that in most countries without a good-sized upper-middle class, the demographic that is flying internationally skews either budget or luxury. People in those countries who can afford to pay for CC would rather jump straight to business class, and frequent flyers would rather be upgraded straight from Y to J.

This shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the purpose of Y+. If this is true, then why is it that BA, AF, VS, etc. can make Y+ work? They fly to many of the same markets at TK.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 105, posted (12 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 6587 times:

News out that atleast 4 parties will bid on the new airport tender.

Reportedly TAV, Fraport, the Sabanci conglomerate, and a consortium of Turkish construction companies were expected to submit bids at the May 3rd tender.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 104):
If this is true, then why is it that BA, AF, VS, etc. can make Y+ work? They fly to many of the same markets at TK.

One thing to keep in mind their cabins are much smaller.

BA 77W only have 44 Y+ seats, AF 32 Y+ on its 77Ws.

Also the network and revenue pictures are very different compared to TK which greatly influence the cabin configurations. Having bases in London or Paris is not the same at Turkey.

At the end of the day, an airplane is like a restaurant, hotel, or any other business that only has fixed revenue earning square footage available.

Ultimately the game is the mix and match the configuration to maximize potential revenue across your network.
This actually is a huge science at airlines which can often requires major compromises as well.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 106, posted (12 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6554 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 105):
At the end of the day, an airplane is like a restaurant, hotel, or any other business that only has fixed revenue earning square footage available.

Ultimately the game is the mix and match the configuration to maximize potential revenue across your network.
This actually is a huge science at airlines which can often requires major compromises as well.

In that respect, I believe we can all agree that the 28J vs 63W split had failure written all over it from the onset. I also believe that to give both cabins the same 2-3-2 accross layout was not the smartest of ideas in terms of clearly distinguishing both products.


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1832 posts, RR: 23
Reply 107, posted (12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6382 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 105):
One thing to keep in mind their cabins are much smaller.

BA 77W only have 44 Y+ seats, AF 32 Y+ on its 77Ws.
Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 106):
In that respect, I believe we can all agree that the 28J vs 63W split had failure written all over it from the onset. I also believe that to give both cabins the same 2-3-2 accross layout was not the smartest of ideas in terms of clearly distinguishing both products.

Again, that doesn't speak to eliminating the product. That speaks to re-aligning it. For example, I don't understand why TK didn't go 2-4-2 in CC or employ a smaller cabin?

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 105):
Also the network and revenue pictures are very different compared to TK which greatly influence the cabin configurations. Having bases in London or Paris is not the same at Turkey.

Debatable. Are you sure that most Y+ traffic to LHR and CDG is O/D and not transit traffic?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 108, posted (12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6365 times:

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 106):
In that respect, I believe we can all agree that the 28J vs 63W split had failure written all over it from the onset.

  

Quoting HB-IWC (Reply 106):
I also believe that to give both cabins the same 2-3-2 accross layout was not the smartest of ideas in terms of clearly distinguishing both products.

Reason they went with the 2-3-2 in J was that 77W cabin was so wide compared to the 330/340 so it not only looked strange with very wide aisles by keeping 2-2-2, but they would have needed to split the J cabin into B-zone unless they were willing to accept an even smaller 24 seat cabin.

But anyhow, there is a further updated J class product over the horizon, which will further improve TK offering and would require tinkering with the overall cabin mix anyhow.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 107):
Again, that doesn't speak to eliminating the product. That speaks to re-aligning it. For example, I don't understand why TK didn't go 2-4-2 in CC or employ a smaller cabin?

You are right - they could always play with it and try various scenarios. However dont think they have not done so already on paper.

However what I will tell you, is the financials for CC have been disappointing from day one. TK has yet to be able to price it in a manner where it works regardless of the accolades it has received by the flying public. I have consistently posted that CC has been a dilemma TK has had for the last couple years now. Sadly while the product is awesome it failed to produce the hoped for net results.

Simply put today, the demand for J class exceeds capacity in many markets like the US and glowingly China, while Y class has been rather easy to sell, so the numbers point to the need for more J and Y seats.
Combined this with a host of other reasons not the least being TK has a new commercial senior management executives which are cooler to Y+ after its economic blunder, plus as mentioned above there is a new J class product on the way also which will require shuffling of configuration mix to maximize revenues again.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 107):
Debatable. Are you sure that most Y+ traffic to LHR and CDG is O/D and not transit traffic?

It goes back to the bigger revenue picture for those airlines. Clearly the mix of F, J, Y+ and Y revenue does not make it beneficial to offer more Y+ seats.

If you want to look at Virgin Atlantic - almost a wholly O&D airline and they also small Y+ section - 31 seats on A340-600.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 109, posted (12 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 6360 times:

Do you think the liberalization of the Israeli air travel might have an impact on Turkish carriers' presence in Tel Aviv?

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 110, posted (12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6297 times:

Personally I think open-skies in Israel can be good for TK also.

As fares drop, and market gets stimulated which could mean lots more people desiring to travel of which TK can garner a percentage of.

TK is already the largest foreign airline in Israel in boardings, so if the pie grows, TK should be able to enjoy a piece of it also.

Additionally don't forget as TK's global network also grows, the number of potential connection routes grows as well which further makes TK attractive.

Lastly, if Turkey and Israel political rapprochement holds, Turkey again could likely return to being a top destination for Israelis tourist as well.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 111, posted (12 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 6287 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 110):

Yes but the thing is that now we are probably going to see a lot of European airlines opening up new routes to Israel which will reduce the need for connections via various airports, Istanbul included.
Plus, Turkish Airlines also has to compete with Pegasus which had recently added more flights to Tel Aviv if I am not mistaken.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 112, posted (12 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6193 times:

Quoting JU068 (Reply 111):
Yes but the thing is that now we are probably going to see a lot of European airlines opening up new routes to Israel which will reduce the need for connections via various airports, Istanbul included.
Plus, Turkish Airlines also has to compete with Pegasus which had recently added more flights to Tel Aviv if I am not mistaken.

I would not worry. Not only will the pie grown, but TK provides a whole lots of unique markets that wont be directly served even with new flights.

Anyhow, outside of LCCs, what new flights will there be to Israel really? All the European legacy carriers already link their hubs with Tel Aviv. Outside of a new flight or two, they wont do much.

TK at the end is still a hugely viable option for Israel not only from Europe, but all over - including the Americas, Far East, Africa, South Asia etc.
And TK is not afraid to reduce prices either. It has an extremely low cost base very few can beat.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineHB-IWC From Greece, joined Sep 2000, 4480 posts, RR: 72
Reply 113, posted (12 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 6136 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 108):
Reason they went with the 2-3-2 in J was that 77W cabin was so wide compared to the 330/340 so it not only looked strange with very wide aisles by keeping 2-2-2, but they would have needed to split the J cabin into B-zone unless they were willing to accept an even smaller 24 seat cabin.

I hear you, but then TK should have gone with 2-4-2 for the W cabin and restrict it to 32 seats tops.

Anyhow, I presume we will eventually see more J seats and if a new J concept is considered, TK may well opt for the Swiss and Etihad setup, which Garuda will also launch in its new B77Ws and which would then extend the J section behind doors 2.


User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 114, posted (12 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 6130 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 112):
Anyhow, outside of LCCs, what new flights will there be to Israel really?

Yes but the lowcost carriers are not to be ignored, especially if airlines like Wizz Air, easyJet or Ryanair add flights. I should have specified when I wrote my original post, I was referring to the Turkish Airlines' connecting passengers from Israel to Europe.


User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 115, posted (12 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 5861 times:

Regarding proposed US customs and immigration cleareance at AUH, how will it affect TK?

User currently offlineSR4ever From Luxembourg, joined Mar 2010, 799 posts, RR: 1
Reply 116, posted (12 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5834 times:

Who knows, TK could be the 1st European airline to operate scheduled flights to VDA, as in AQJ and SSH...

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 117, posted (12 months 17 hours ago) and read 5639 times:

This is pretty cool. I didn't know this.
Now you can get an e-visa to enter Turkey instead of waiting in line at the airport.
https://www.evisa.gov.tr/en/
Apply online, pay by credit card, your visa letter will be emailed within 24 hours.

I always thought this could have been done online, during the flight coming into Turkey, maybe one day.

[Edited 2013-04-24 06:32:43]

[Edited 2013-04-24 07:06:09]

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26501 posts, RR: 58
Reply 118, posted (12 months 17 hours ago) and read 5628 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 117):
This is pretty cool. I didn't know this.
Now you can get an e-visa to enter Turkey instead of waiting in line at the airport.
https://www.evisa.gov.tr/en/
Apply online, pay by credit card, you visa letter will be emailed within 24 hours.

Thats great . It will save the hassle of the visa desk .  



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offline9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 2106 posts, RR: 19
Reply 119, posted (12 months 11 hours ago) and read 5500 times:

Any news on the aircraft that will do the inaugural to KUL in a few hours time?

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26501 posts, RR: 58
Reply 120, posted (12 months 10 hours ago) and read 5504 times:

TK have launched an overhaul of their iPhone App.

Passbook BP now supported.

New display and quicker access to bookings.

iphone friendly seat maps

So far its working quite well and fast.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1832 posts, RR: 23
Reply 121, posted (12 months 9 hours ago) and read 5459 times:

Quoting 777way (Reply 115):
Regarding proposed US customs and immigration cleareance at AUH, how will it affect TK?

I can't see the impact being huge. I don't really think people will choose flights based on preclearance, especially for long-haul. Slight advantage. But not enough to really sway most travelers.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 122, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 5308 times:

TK to sponsor Borussia Dortmund soccer team for 3 years;
http://www.turkishairlines.com/en-in...ip-with-germanys-borussia-dortmund


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 123, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 5268 times:

News about the 3rd Istanbul airport tender;
http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/ekonomi/23130992.asp (in Turkish)
This article says, the rules about who can enter, made flexible. This reads not enough interest. Last I heard it was down to 3-4 bids for the May 3rd deadline.
-New rule says, the bidding group no longer has to have "up to 3 companies". So we might see bidding groups having more than 3 partners.
-And the other rule change; One of the companies inside the group should hold 51% of shares, being the Pilot company. This rule is relaxed so bunch of smaller companies can form a joint bid.

I think since the excavation costs are estimated at 2.5 Billion euros, and completion of first phase in 4 years, the number of bids staying low. The tender is being watered down just to get the interest up. Hope it works out.
I still think TAV will do anything to get this one.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 124, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5242 times:

TK flies to KUL and here is a pretty cool graphic;
http://pinterest.com/pin/65443000807932914/


User currently offline9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 2106 posts, RR: 19
Reply 125, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5221 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 124):
TK flies to KUL and here is a pretty cool graphic

Some mistakes though:

1. South EAST Asia, not South West Asia.
2. GMT 8 instead of GMT 5.
3. The HIGHEST twin towers instead of the longest twin towers. We don't measure height of a building by its length.

Cute graphic nonetheless.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 126, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5187 times:

Quoting 9MMAR (Reply 125):

Ha ha...
Where is that "Like" button. Thanks.
I will shoot an email to TK with these.

Also, my wife suggests "Tallest" could be more appropriate than "Highest", since a building at a mountain top could be higher than a building at sea level.  Smile

[Edited 2013-04-25 08:21:27]

User currently offline9MMAR From Malaysia, joined Jul 2006, 2106 posts, RR: 19
Reply 127, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5228 times:

Tallest would be most appropriate, I stand corrected LOL.

User currently offlinetkfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 650 posts, RR: 1
Reply 128, posted (11 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5092 times:

Everybody is cutting ATH frequencies, Turkish Airlines is increasing from 21 to 25 weekly, June 3rd

http://www.turkishairlines.com/tr-tr.../haberler/22404/atina-sefer-artisi


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26501 posts, RR: 58
Reply 129, posted (11 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 5000 times:

Quoting tkfan (Reply 128):
Turkish Airlines is increasing from 21 to 25 weekly, June 3rd

Good news. S7 will also introduce a new route ATH-DME from 27th April.
Also IBERIA Express will offer ATH-MAD from 29th June. Transavia will increase ATH-AMS from the Winter timetable also.
Aegean also increase the following routes ATH-LCA / ATH-DME / ATH-PRG / New route ATH-GVA / New route ATH-IEV .
New route ATH-MAN / Increase in ATH-WAW. / ATH - MAD increases. / ATH - CDG increase.

So its great to see airlines increasing flights for the Summer . TK is doing well at ATH especially on Eastern traffic EX ATH. They are launching another promo for USA and Canada too.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 130, posted (11 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 4875 times:

Congrats to Pegasus   

Today was their IPO first trading date on the Istanbul Stock Exchange.

They managed to raise 1.93 billion lira (USD 1.07bil) for a 35.4% stake in the airline.

The share sale was managed by Barclays exceeded initial estimated price. The investor spread was also quite diverse with big chunks sold to UK, US and European investors.

Proceeds from the IPO will be utilized to help fund growth and the Airbus order.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinetkfan From Turkey, joined Oct 2007, 650 posts, RR: 1
Reply 131, posted (11 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 4804 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 129):

Wonderful news,
but I thought more of the likes of Singapore, Thai, Emirates, Gulf.
Its not only O&D, I guess Turkish Airlines is one of the main carriers to the East...


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26501 posts, RR: 58
Reply 132, posted (11 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 4780 times:

Quoting tkfan (Reply 131):
but I thought more of the likes of Singapore, Thai, Emirates, Gulf.
Its not only O&D, I guess Turkish Airlines is one of the main carriers to the East...

Daily EK , Double daily QR ,Daily EY there are plenty of connections East. GF have their own issues and couldn't make it work. Just like they said they couldn't make DUB work and pulled out. Now EK and EY fly to DUB and make it work very well. With regards to SQ and TG it was the Gulf carriers that took their passengers a lot of them premium. So the fittest survived. TK wouldnt be increasing ATH if there was not demand for it and if the traffic figures were not showing signs of improvement. Its the same reason TK are yet again increasing DUB.



AEGEAN-OLYMPIC AIR - ΟΛΥΜΠΙΑΚΗ " μέλος στη Star Alliance
User currently offlineJU068 From Serbia, joined Aug 2009, 2579 posts, RR: 6
Reply 133, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 4638 times:

Turkish Airlines is considering charging for alcohol on its Russian flights as the airline experienced problems with drunk passengers.

User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 4567 times:

This week I had a tour around North Europe. Here are some short notes:

ESB-AMS on TK
Flight was overbooked. Yet C was only one passenger and Y was completely full. Passenger composition is gradually changing. It used to be only Turkish immigrants in the past. Now around 30% appears to be business related travelers including non Turkish origin. Good for ESB direct Europe flights.

AMS-HEL on KL
I had the chance to visit KL's lounge at AMS. It looked very modern. But the food was very very poor as well as the wine. All you can enjoy is Dutch Beer and Internet!

Similarly service during the flight was at or even below Anadolujet level. Only good part is they continue serving Dutch Beer.

However I must admit that F/A are at an age of 40+ and very experienced with good connectivity to passengers. TK has a lot to learn on this matter from continental Europe airlines.

HEL-IST-ESB on TK
Again all flight were full. Though it was the new number of daily flights and passengers record day, I did not recognize any thing special at IST. Everything went very well as much as it can be at IST. At the passport control there were no queues at all. I think Port Authority, DHMI and TAV are doing a great job.

TK has a very good passenger composition on HEL-IST segment. I think more than 50% were connecting passengers, mostly to ME and Far East.

Notes on HEL:
Looks like Air Finland now has a niche market for Far East connectivity. Around 18:00 hours, there were a lot of Air Finland planes leaving to East with good passenger loads. However after these planes left, the airport was deserted.

During the security checks a Nazi looking security officer kept my cigar lighter saying that this is in torch category and not allowed on board. I traveled everywhere with that lighter before, even at AMS they carefully checked and allowed it. I'm sure he is now enjoying his victory whenever he lights his cigarette.


User currently offlineankaraflyjet From Turkey, joined Mar 2007, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 135, posted (11 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4344 times:

Quoting TK105 (Reply 134):

AMS ESB flights were started by KL in 1954 and KL operated the route since 1990. KL also operated 5th freedom rights until 70ies and did take pax from ESB to ATH, BEI etc.

It is a pitty how KL did not return to ESB ever since. The last time KL flew to Ankara this was a triangle flight AMS-ESB-ADB-AMS with A310. Great service on a widebody. KL started with DC6 in 50ies, and then DC-8 and A310 on the route.

KL also used DC-10 on charters during summer months in 80ies.

TK runs ESB AMS non-stop since 1972 and has been a popular route ever since. It also is the longest Western route from ESB until BD ceased LHR ESB in 2008. TK used B727 in 70ies, followed by A310 in 90ies and then B737 on this route ever since.

Hope KL returns to ESB again, will be good to see competition and KL can offer good connections to UK and North America in particular, AMS is defifinitley a better airport than IST for such connections. Now that TK will also quite Comfort Class, KL's pemium economy can be a good replacement as well for those who seek a little more space at favorable prices !!!


User currently offlinestylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 2904 posts, RR: 12
Reply 136, posted (11 months 3 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4187 times:

regarding ESB: been there this week as well and I'm still wondering how they could built such a big airport for so minimal traffic?!? from passenger point-of-view it is great, no lines at check-in or security, quite airy and clean; however, for TAV this must be minus calculation?!?

User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (11 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 4091 times:

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 136):

ESB was built according to 10M annual passenger capacity which in 2013 this target will be achieved. In this regard, with 15+ years operational period, probably TAV is doing fine.

Obviously every airport terminal would look operating under capacity when compared to IST. For example whenever I fly to DXB from IST, I always feel like this. But when you look at the statistics, of course this is not the case.

On the other hand, governmental decision like moving all kind of financial institutes or banks to Istanbul or airlines like TK opting to grow only in IST naturally avoids ESB to get better results it deserves (similarly for ADB as well). We also know that TK makes the best revenue still from IST-ESB flights as it is mostly business traffic driven. This alone proves the potential of ESB.


User currently offlineankaraflyjet From Turkey, joined Mar 2007, 267 posts, RR: 1
Reply 138, posted (11 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 3933 times:

Quoting TK105 (Reply 137):

Thank you for the explanation but you will get a lot of oppositon in this forum if you start talking about expansion of another airport in Turkey other than IST and I quit doing that long time ago.

ESB is the second biggest permium pax traffic after IST in Turkey, the pax numbers in IST for international traffic are not representative as there is a lot of pax originating their journey from ESB or ADB that not all are onward transit, so the numbers in fact are at bare minimum due to geographical advanatge of IST as well as the number of diverse options to fly to any destination worldwide.

Current terminal at ESB can hardly meet the domestic traffic nowadays and will need to expand further to be able to cope with the increasing domestic traffic.

I still hope that we will see more international traffic at ESB and ADB (main line carriers) that will help development of these airports to its real potential and also will have an impact on the economy of Ankara and Izmir.

On an AF flight in early nineties I was flying from CDG to ESB with an AF310 that had 24 Business Class and around +170 pax in economy. The routing was CDG-ESB-IST-CDG triangle flight. The business cabin ex-CDG was full and I was one of the passangers too. Among the 24 pax, 23 disembarked at ESB and only one continued onward to IST. Among the 150 pax in economy only 40 disembarked at ESB and 110 went on to IST. So we should see 40 economy pax + 23 Business Class pax is more profitable or 1 Business Class pax + 110 economy pax is more profitable?

Similarly on a BA flight on a B757 which I flew almost thrice monthly in late eghties and nineties from LHR to ESB vice-versa (in those days BA had 2x daily flights to IST one one continued oward to ESB) the club cabin would be by more than half to/from ESB always. This is beacuse Ankara hosts over 100 embassies and there is always an influx of official VIP's, delegations travelling that usually travel in Business Class.

Likewise in early 70ies for instance Ismet Inonu as President of Turkey flew Pan Am from ESB to JFK or Ozal used a LH B727 on a specil charter from ESB to IAH.

Those days are gone as we know but wanted to highlight it for the younger members in the forum who may want to learn about those years.


User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 2
Reply 139, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3729 times:

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 138):
ESB is the second biggest permium pax traffic after IST in Turkey,

This is a little like saying Lyon is the second biggest business market in France. But how many airlines serve Lyon compared to Paris ?

When 90% of gold is in one place, really does not matter what the rest is. Airlines go where the money and people are.

Ankara has and will always be far secondary compared to much more promising market like Istanbul.
If not seat of government it would simply be a little average provincial town.

Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 138):
On an AF flight in early nineties I was flying from CDG to ESB with an AF310 that had 24 Business Class and around +170 pax in economy. The routing was CDG-ESB-IST-CDG triangle flight. The business cabin ex-CDG was full and I was one of the passangers too. Among the 24 pax, 23 disembarked at ESB and only one continued onward to IST. Among the 150 pax in economy only 40 disembarked at ESB and 110 went on to IST. So we should see 40 economy pax + 23 Business Class pax is more profitable or 1 Business Class pax + 110 economy pax is more profitable?

I hope you realize, virtually all Istanbul person would go on the direct nonstop Paris - Istanbul service, not the 1-stop via ESB.

Countless foreign airlines have found Ankara not attractive market.


User currently offlineokapi From France, joined Jun 2006, 206 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 139):

I'm afraid LYS is not the second premium city in France, NCE offers much more. However, TK flies to LYS twice a day though (TK1807/1809). Yet, LYS does not have the real premium pax generated by embassies and other Turkish institutions. I've flown once between IST and ESB on a TK A321, and yes, the plane was fully packed, on both inbound and outbound. I'm sure more airlines would fly to ESB if it had a bit tourism to justify a full cabin but we all know how attractive Istanbul is, especially with cruise ships travellers. So you're right when saying Ankara is not attractive enough for foreign carriers.

A side note or question, are there any A380 enabled gates at IST yet?


User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1131 posts, RR: 2
Reply 141, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3663 times:

Quoting okapi (Reply 140):
I'm afraid LYS is not the second premium city in France, NCE offers much more.

Note, I did not say premium, I said business.
NCE is rather small'ish and different market itself, a unique more playboy lifestyle market. Not typical city.

But it really does not matter, as France like Turkey is heavily focused on single city as its population, commercial, and aviation hub.

Unfortunately for Ankara does not have much benefit for neither tourist, business, or rich playboy traffic.

Also for info the embassies hardly purchase premium tickets. I have colleagues, and the government purchases economy tickets for virtually entire staffs even when longhaul travel. And these tickets are discount fares as government have contracts with airlines for such travel.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 142, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3653 times:

This Ankara debate is a bit like the A.net threads about other smaller communities stuck in the shadow of a larger one.

Regardless of it being the 2nd largest business market (for info Ankara was not the 2nd busiest airport - Antalya, Istanbul SAW and Izmir were all busier), Ankara is still rather thin slice of a big pie.

For example in 2012 the Turkish air travel market was some 130 million, Ankara's traffic was some 9 million.

And yes, government travel is most often in the back of the bus. Even Turkish Foreign Ministry buys it staff all the way up to Consul Generals economy class tickets, with them praying for upgrades at the airport.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineleftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 143, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 3601 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 139):

True, but still LYS, NCE, MAN, BHX, LED etc. secondary cities like ESB all get far more traffic from foreign airlines. TK has such a strong grip on ESB pax that it funnels through IST, the situation can't even be compared to NCE or LYS or MAN or BHX.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24325 posts, RR: 47
Reply 144, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3532 times:

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 143):
True, but still LYS, NCE, MAN, BHX, LED etc. secondary cities like ESB all get far more traffic from foreign airlines.

In fairness those secondary cities are in the heart of Europe and connected easily and cheaply to nearby European hubs.

Ankara is literally on another continent - even the closest major hub like Vienna is 1600km away from Ankara. While CDG to ESB is almost exactly 2,600km, and AMS or London even further

The operating economics of serving a distant secondary city like Ankara would be radically different for Air France let say versus operating a short hop to to MAN for example.

Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 143):
TK has such a strong grip on ESB pax

TK is strong in ESB as others simply don't want to serve the market.

At one time TK was 100% of the domestic market share in Turkey, but today its just under 50% even with TK's massive growth, because other airlines have continued to grow and increase their own services.

Pegasus, or foreign carriers could greatly increase their services at ESB if they believed there was a compelling reason, regardless of what TK operates.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineleftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 145, posted (11 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3470 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 144):
Pegasus, or foreign carriers could greatly increase their services at ESB if they believed there was a compelling reason, regardless of what TK operates.

That is what I hope for, once PC starts receiving their NEOs. Hopefully SAW won't be able to accommodate all of the fleet  


User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3378 times:

Quoting okapi (Reply 140):
Quoting mercure1 (Reply 141):
Quoting LAXintl (Reply 142):
Quoting leftyboarder (Reply 145):

Gentlemen,

I think we are coming to a point but first lets not make some false assumptions, resulting to wrong conclusions.

First lets take a look at traffic results for 2012:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_the_busiest_airports_in_Europe

ESB has 10% annual growth rate which will probably put it in Europe Top 25 before the end of decade.

Apart from AYT and partly ADB, there is no tourism related low premium international traffic in ESB. ESB international traffic is basically business and Turkish Diaspora traffic.

There is not much foreign embassy related international traffic either (Come on! Ankara is not the headquarters of UN or NATO, just another capital). As a frequent traveler I rarely recognize such people. Moreover this traffic mainly goes via MUC by LH.

There is not much government traffic either (both domestic and international). It is quite easy to recognize them as they mostly go through CIP which is a unique situation in Turkey. On average 5 passengers (rarely 10+) on each ESB-IST flight are in this category.

My observation is that international traffic to ESB is basically due to Turkish immigrants and following industries located in Ankara : Construction, Technology, Universities, Medical and Defense. Especially construction and defense business has a big lead in this.

I do not think any non *A airline has a chance in ESB as ESB is a TK fortress. Even LH can not continue its position if TK ever challenges them. Because Turkish people will hardly fly with foreign airlines (due to food, language, national/political, etc reasons).

Considering that average 50% on each ESB-IST flight is international traffic, we can talk about some 3 million international traffic originated in ESB going via IST. I suppose that this is a remarkable volume.

However this traffic goes everywhere, not concentrated to specific destination. In this regard, on short term it will be good if TK originates some direct flights to satisfy business owners in Ankara going to especially ME, Russia and West Europe destinations where above industries are active. To name a few are:

Dubai
Riyadh
Jeddah
Erbil
Bagdath
Qatar
Muscat
Trablus
Askabat
Moscow
Amsterdam
Brussels
Munich

Some of the above locations are already served by TK and others. Frequencies may be increased. But especially ME and North locations need more attention. Especially Dubai and Riyadh (perhaps Trablus) are short term musts.


User currently offlineleftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 147, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3341 times:

Quoting TK105 (Reply 146):
Dubai
Riyadh
Jeddah
Erbil
Bagdath
Qatar
Muscat
Trablus
Askabat
Moscow
Amsterdam
Brussels
Munich

EBL, VKO, AMS, BRU and MUC are already served as you've said. RUH, JED, BGW, DOH, DXB (I added that one), GYD (Baku) also make sense to the east - in fact if I were to travel from Asian Istanbul to JED or DXB, I'd rather fly SAW-ESB-JED/DXB than cross town to IST to fly IST-DXB. I also want to see FCO, CDG, LHR/LGW, ZRH from ESB in the short term.


User currently offlineTK105 From Turkey, joined Mar 2013, 128 posts, RR: 0
Reply 148, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3264 times:

Here are some interesting facts and figures about ESB. First one is from 2011 and next one is from 2013. It shows how important is ESB traffic on IST international traffic:

http://tavairports.turkline.com/en-E...uments/ESB%20Airport%20Profile.pdf

http://www.esenbogaairport.com/tr-TR.../Documents/ESB-Airport-Profile.pdf

Interestingly in 2011 TAV mentions 10M annual passenger capacity, but this information is taken out in 2013!

[Edited 2013-04-30 09:59:28]

User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4299 posts, RR: 12
Reply 149, posted (11 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3159 times:

Please continue here:
Turkish Aviation May 2013 (by TK787 Apr 30 2013 in Civil Aviation)


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