Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Allegiant Flight Delayed 21 Hours At PGD  
User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3143 posts, RR: 10
Posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 9003 times:

Apparently passengers at PGD were delayed departure after being told multiple times that a replacement aircraft was just a half-hour away. My only question here is with all the cities that Allegiant serves have they stretched themselves too thin on spare aircraft availability. How many spare aircraft generally speaking do the legacy carriers have available, roughly should an aircraft that is ready to depart suddenly develop a problem?

The video report suggests that 3 significant delays have taken place at PGD in the last month. Maybe if we have some Allegiant employees in the forum they can enlighten all of us on this matter.

Courtesy: WBBH-TV - Video Report At Link

Passengers Furious After 21-Hr Flight Delay In Punta Gorda

http://www.nbc-2.com/story/21846726/...furious-after-21-hour-flight-delay

39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 8656 times:

Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):

I have noticed in flightaware that PGD has had serious consistent dèlays. G4 will destroy the market if their Ontime is that poor. Where does G4 have spares and crews on reserve? SFB?


User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2058 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 8353 times:

Maybe its not for lack of a spare plane sitting around, lack of air crew can be a big factor. Just because you are profitable, that you can afford a spare plane at every hub. This (mx issues) could be a factor in them switching from MD's to Airbus.


Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8163 times:

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 2):
Just because you are profitable, that you can afford a spare plane at every hub.

They need to have spares at LAS and SFB and reserve crews. Its this type of problem that can kill an airline like Allegiant


User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1972 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 8159 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 3):
Its this type of problem that can kill an airline like Allegiant

This, the Hawaii fiasco and their carry-on charges are doing a good enough job already!


User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3847 posts, RR: 7
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 8097 times:

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 2):
This (mx issues) could be a factor in them switching from MD's to Airbus.

I would wager to say that the mx on a 10-15 year old airbus isn't much of a better situation than on a 20-25 year old MD 80.


User currently offlinedsuairptman From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 904 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 7929 times:

Despite all their gripping, most if not all those complaining pax will be back on G4 in the future. After all it is the least expensive and only non stop option to the PDG/RSW area from whichever small mid-west town they came in from. Remember, price is king for G4's clientele. Also these pax got free pizza and an extra night in sunny Florida on G4.

The only real criticism would be the alleged mis-leading delay information.



GEAUX SAINTS!
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1228 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7820 times:

You get what you pay for. Plain and simple. If you're a G4 customer, you have to expect sub-standard performance. G4 is growing too quickly for them to adequately manage. They have for a long time, but I think it's only beginning to become apparent. They've got an ageing fleet and an unconventional network, which leaves the door open for problems like this one. They need to get things under control before they continue growing at the pace they have been or it'll only exacerbate and potentially cause irreparable damage to the company.

User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7807 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
Apparently passengers at PGD were delayed departure after being told multiple times that a replacement aircraft was just a half-hour away.
Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 6):

The only real criticism would be the alleged mis-leading delay information.

   This is what would irk me if I was scheduled to go out on that flight. They should know for sure if there is a plane on the way or not if they are claiming it's only a half hour out. Obviously this wasn't the case.

While it was nice they provided a hotel room in sunny Florida for these pax, the matter of the fact is this flight was scheduled to be back Sunday night, in time to return home for work and/or school the next day for many passengers after being on Spring break.

Quoting dsuairptman (Reply 6):
Despite all their gripping, most if not all those complaining pax will be back on G4 in the future. After all it is the least expensive and only non stop option to the PDG/RSW area from whichever small mid-west town they came in from. Remember, price is king for G4's clientele. Also these pax got free pizza and an extra night in sunny Florida on G4.

None the less it won't be good press for G4. I do agree that some of them will probably come back though.


User currently offlinerampbro From Canada, joined Nov 2012, 270 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7767 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 8):
in time to return home for work and/or school the next day for many passengers after being on Spring break

That's a new G4 marketing angle - fly with Alleigant and get a bonus day of spring break!


User currently offlinesunking737 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2058 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 7755 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 5):
Quoting sunking737 (Reply 2):
This (mx issues) could be a factor in them switching from MD's to Airbus.

I would wager to say that the mx on a 10-15 year old airbus isn't much of a better situation than on a 20-25 year old MD 80.

Agreed



Just an MSPAVGEEK
User currently offlineUnited727 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7666 times:

I find it strange how everyone on this board hasn't heard of this before. RFD traffic have experienced significant delays with G4 over the past couple months. Matter of fact, their first flight to PGD was delayed several hours with the local news crews there and watching. It was supposed to be a breath of fresh air after what happened last year. IIRC, they waited for 4 to 5 hours and passengers were all told it was a WX related delay. Although not 21 hours, all these delays and MX issues with all their types are going to catch up.

edit SP

[Edited 2013-04-02 10:10:38]


Looking for the impossible way to save those dying breeds!!!!
User currently offlinepwm2txlhopper From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7561 times:

Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):

Reminds me of my experience with Allegiant lAst year trying to fly SFB-BGR. While the flight was delayed five hours instead of 21, they told us numerous times a replacement plane was being flown up from FLL and the plane was in the air. However, every time I checked Flightaware, it showed no planes had departed FLL for SFB. This went on for hours before a flight suddenly popped up as departed and enroute. But heck, what do I know? Maybe the plane really had departed and just wasn't showing up on the tracker for four hours while it flew south first and circled Cuba and Jamaica for a few hours?


User currently offlineplanenutz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 7529 times:

G4 has been experiencing significant delays across its system over the last several days.

From the Allegiant Air website:

3/30/2013

Flight 571 originally scheduled to depart Honolulu, HI to Las Vegas, NV on March 30, 2013 will now be operating as Flight 1571 on March 31, 2013. The new scheduled time of departure out of Honolulu is 8:00 am, arriving in Las Vegas at 4:45 pm.

Flight 883 from Grand Rapids, MI to St. Petersburg, FL originally scheduled to depart Grand Rapids, MI at 6:20pm on March 30, 2013 will be operated as Flight 1883 on March 31, 2013 departing from Grand Rapids, MI at 10:35 am, arriving in St. Petersburg, FL at 1:05 pm.

Flight 125 originally scheduled to depart Sioux Falls, SD to Phoenix/Mesa, AZ onMarch 30 2013 will now be operating as Flight 1125 on March 31 2013. The new scheduled time of departure out of Sioux Falls is 3:00 pm, arriving in Phoenix/Mesa at 3:50 pm.



3/31/2013

Flight 580 from Las Vegas, NV to Bellingham, WA originally scheduled to depart Las Vegas, NV at 8:00 am on March 31, 2013 will be operated as Flight 1580 on April 1, 2013 departing from Las Vegas, NV at 3:05pm, arriving in Bellingham, WA at 5:45 pm.

Flight 581 from Bellingham, WA to Las Vegas, NV originally scheduled to depart Bellingham, WA at 11:45 am on March 31, 2013 will be operated as Flight 1581 on April 1, 2013 departing from Bellingham, WA at 7:00 pm, arriving in Las Vegas, NV at 9:30 pm.

Flight 966 from Punta Gorda, FL to Peoria, IL originally scheduled to depart Punta Gorda, FL at 2:50pm on March 31, 2013 will be operated as Flight 1966 on April 1, 2013 departing from Punta Gorda, FL at 10:00am, arriving in Peoria, IL at 11:30am.

Flight 967 from Peoria, IL to Punta Gorda, FL originally scheduled to depart Peoria, IL at 5:00pm on March 31, 2013 will be operated as Flight 1967 on April 1, 2013 departing from Peoria, IL at 12:10pm, arriving in Punta Gorda, FL at 3:40pm.

http://www2.allegiantair.com/travel-advisory


User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3143 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7413 times:

Quoting United727 (Reply 11):
I find it strange how everyone on this board hasn't heard of this before. RFD traffic have experienced significant delays with G4 over the past couple months. Matter of fact, their first flight to PGD was delayed several hours with the local news crews there and watching.

United727 thanks for your reply. Speaking for myself if we were aware of what you have just shared regarding RFD we would mention that too. This thread is not meant to be a slam on Allegiant, PGD or anyone else. What I was trying to state was some info regarding this particular event which only suggests a recent trend regarding some of their aircraft. The report itself mentioned two earlier breakdowns within a month. Again the events themselves are just provoking us to ask some questions and not passing judgement anywhere.

Some of the posters here in their replies have suggested some possible causes but we do not know what the real causes are as yet. All airlines have delays for a variety of reasons as we all know. This event sticks out because of two "known" facts. The unusual length of the delay and a few recent delays prior to this within a month.

At this point we are as we always do are just seeking information and as I pointed out at the top it is hoped that some Allegiant staff can provide us with that.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7409 times:

The FAA might have to step in and limit their growth ala ValuJet in 1995.

User currently offlinecactus739 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2450 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 7383 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 15):
The FAA might have to step in and limit their growth ala ValuJet in 1995.

Very unlikely. Valujet's growth led to incidents that cost people their lives and damaged planes.

Allegiant's issues have caused people delays.

Huge difference.



You can't fix stupid.... - Ron White
User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20334 posts, RR: 59
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7310 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 7):
You get what you pay for. Plain and simple. If you're a G4 customer, you have to expect sub-standard performance.

No. Nobody should expect substandard performance. You should expect to be transported safely and in a timely manner. If an airline is incapable of delivering this basic service, then it should have its license pulled.

I'm not saying no delays ever. I'm saying that delays should be the exception and not the norm and they should never be "expected." Safety issues should be the exception and not the norm. And that probability of a delay should not relate to price, especially when the delay is MX-related, because then that implies necessarily that MX is related to price and that is absolutely unacceptable. You do not cut corners on MX.


User currently offlineUnited727 From United States of America, joined Nov 2010, 412 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7235 times:

Quoting KarlB737 (Reply 14):
Again the events themselves are just provoking us to ask some questions and not passing judgement anywhere.

I merely mentioned facts above and was not in the least passing judgement. G4 has been operating subpar and I think that's a clearly proven fact. Additionally, it's throughout their system, not just in select cities. The question is...do they care? What are they going to do about it? I live within 5 minutes from RFD and choose to fly out of ORD due to this type of service



Looking for the impossible way to save those dying breeds!!!!
User currently offlineluvfa From United States of America, joined May 2005, 447 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 7235 times:

This is part of the problem when you operate p2p using secondary airports with an infrequent schedule! Reminds me of my first airline job, SunJet International, back in the mid 90s. We had days like these with our aging fleet of DC9/MD80s. If a plane broke down we usually could not get a spare until another A/C became available! Sometimes we would have to put 2 flights together with 1 A/C. Example: we were short on A/C and instead of being able run MYR-EWR and PIE-EWR with 2 A/C, we would have to run PIE-MYR-EWR and back with the same A/C bumping some pax. Needless to say, we didn't last long!

User currently offlinesprout5199 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 1855 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6980 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 7):
If you're a G4 customer, you have to expect sub-standard performance

Have you ever flown on them? I have many times, and so have my daughters. Have there been delys? Yes, and also have seen them actually leave 15 min. early. All in all, very nice flights, very comfortable, more than I expect for the price. I dont complain about the bag fees, BOB stuff as thats why I have a cheap ticket price.

Maybe Hawaii was more than they could chew, but for who they are and where they fly, they are a nice break from all the connecting flights I would have had to take flying to eastern Tenn from Florida.

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 5):
20-25 year old MD 80.

Nothing beats a Mad Dog/Diesel 9. Love them.

Dan in Jupiter


User currently offlinePI4EVER From United States of America, joined May 2009, 704 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6921 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

They've contracted out their maintenance to Carnival Cruise Lines.....


watch what you want. you may get it.
User currently offlineMaverick623 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 5732 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6895 times:

Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
How many spare aircraft generally speaking do the legacy carriers have available

Not as many as you'd think, at least that are available. Aircraft are constantly getting rotated in and out of heavy checks, so there's spares to cover that, but at my hub at any given time there are usually less than 3 non-routed spares. You can increase the apparent amount by doing aircraft swaps and delaying a few flights, but it's not like anyone just has extra airplanes sitting around to go bail out the system when things go wrong.



"PHX is Phoenix, PDX is the other city" -777Way
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6805 times:

Quoting Maverick623 (Reply 22):

Often spares are buried in the turns. There actually isnt a plane sitting there but the schedule is lax enough it can create a full plane through the day at the hub if needed. Given that G4 uses fully depreciated MD80s paid with cash, there is little costs to actually parking a plane in LAS and SFB with reserve crews. Or at least having slack in the schedule to create a full plane.

Quoting cactus739 (Reply 16):
Very unlikely. Valujet's growth led to incidents that cost people their lives and damaged planes.

While Valujet had some incidents no one was killed until the Miami crash, i dont recall. They were already under scrutiny before the crash.


User currently offlineDocLightning From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 20334 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 6682 times:

Quoting United727 (Reply 18):
The question is...do they care? What are they going to do about it?

And that is the end issue. It's not about whether you mess up (although frequency of mess-ups is important) but rather, how you recover. Stringing your customers along on bad information for 21 hours is not a good recovery.


User currently offlineluvfa From United States of America, joined May 2005, 447 posts, RR: 4
Reply 25, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6832 times:

They can't cancel flights, due to the limited service. They have to take the delay and complete the flight whenever they can! If this happens too much, they can't survive!

User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9507 posts, RR: 26
Reply 26, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6860 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 24):

Agreed. Allegiant built its business primarily on good word of mouth - because honestly, when I flew them in the period of 2004-2008, I found them to be pretty great, and reliable, etc.

They need to be careful or that same word of mouth will tank them.

It's nice they are offering some accomodations for the delay, but when you fly to out-of-the-way and secondary airports, you're kind of stuck when there. Keeping the rental car extra so you can get out and do things rather than sit in an airport for say 5 to 6 extra hours (or more) costs you an extra day's rental, etc. etc. One time I was delayed on Southwest 5 hours ... at least they were honest about it ... I hopped on the CTA and went to downtown Chicago and did some bar hopping with a couple of other passengers who didnt want to sit all that time in Midway, came back and got on the plane and trekked back to New York - arriving at 2a. At least we knew about it and we were in an airport where we could find some entertainment.

The company has plenty of cash in the bank to let them spend a little and step up its game - whether it be on reserve crews and planes at different major bases across the country or what have you.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineB727LVR From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 630 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6823 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 5):
I would wager to say that the mx on a 10-15 year old airbus isn't much of a better situation than on a 20-25 year old MD 80.

Agreed! I work with a DC9-33, that is 44 years old, and it's one of the most reliable aircraft we have. She may not be pretty, or as new, but she still get the job done.

I think the bigger issue, as mentioned above is the mx on them. Airplanes are like cars the more TLC you give them the better. How much of the little maintenance are these planes getting? The larger carriers do over night checks and other little things here and there (where available that is) that go along way. Not trying to bash G4, but do they, or can they do the smaller things like the bigger carriers do as I mentioned?



I'm like a kid in a candy store when it comes to planes!
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8366 posts, RR: 23
Reply 28, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 6628 times:

Quoting Kcrwflyer (Reply 5):
I would wager to say that the mx on a 10-15 year old airbus isn't much of a better situation than on a 20-25 year old MD 80.

Agreed as well. In my days as a ramp rat I remember the MD's and A320's were always giving us the biggest maintenance issues. But the old 737-200's, covered in patches, were reliable as hell!



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineTW870 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 282 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 5301 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
No. Nobody should expect substandard performance. You should expect to be transported safely and in a timely manner. If an airline is incapable of delivering this basic service, then it should have its license pulled.

I agree with this completely, especially on reliability being required for license maintenance.

But the challenging thing about the situation is that the flying public doesn't recognize that you inevitably take a greater risk of major delay when you fly on a carrier - or out of an airport - where they can't interline you to another carrier in the event of a major delay. Even when airlines are at the top of their game, sometimes you just have a bad day where you are short aircraft at a bunch of stations and can't possibly run your whole schedule. But if you have to force pax to sit and wait until a spare airplane or crew is available - rather than sending them off on AA or UA or whoever else - delays can be immense. I had an MX cancelation on AA the other day on MSP-ORD, and I was on a DL flight 20 minutes later. But the whole business model of G4 is built on markets where people cannot access or afford AA or DL (given high fares in smaller midwest markets that are all RJs). Thus, people have to recognize that a G4 fare might just have to come with an extra day at the beach.


User currently offlinebraynfeeble From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 5066 times:

Annoying when you have a "rolling delay" I'd rather be told "come back tomorrow" this happens all the time where I work & I feel sorry for the customers.


♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨* je voudrais voler / comme un oiseau d'aile d'aile ♥☆•*¨*•.¸¸¸.•*¨* •☆•*¨*
User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4748 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting braynfeeble (Reply 30):
Annoying when you have a "rolling delay" I'd rather be told "come back tomorrow" this happens all the time where I work & I feel sorry for the customers.

I had a 30 hour delay on F9 at TTN but we were atleast told to come back tommorrow about 45 minutes after scheduled departure. It was a weather/pilot caution delay. Seems that the runway which is only 6000' was wet and the temps were right around freezing. Also TTN was a new station and they were unsure about how conditions would effect landing. Was given a $200 voucher but lost a day and a half and arrived in MCO around 1am.

[Edited 2013-04-02 19:01:59]


Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineAVLAirlineFreq From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 1080 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4304 times:

Quoting braynfeeble (Reply 30):
Annoying when you have a "rolling delay" I'd rather be told "come back tomorrow" this happens all the time where I work & I feel sorry for the customers.

There was a similar delay last week on a G4 flight from AVL to FLL:

http://www.wlos.com/shared/news/feat...gers-irate-over-delays-10995.shtml


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3813 times:

Allegiant needs to focus a bit more on this ever expanding problem. Two and three hour delays should not be the norm. Travelers aren't going to buy the excuse of weather if it is clear in Florida and Ohio. Tons of airports have monitors displaying flights and weather. There should be no reason their flights continuously leave late to start the day.

Trust me, this is a growing problem and leads to black eyes for many airports. Maybe they should focus a tad bit less on their huge profits for a quarter and work to minimize these problems. As a shareholder, I would be happy to sacrifice some gains now if it leads to better reliability in the long run.



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently onlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 3383 times:

I'm not sure what the solution is to the type of travel G4 provides. As pointed out, they pretty much can't cancel the flight as there isn't another one to put people on. A "regular scheduled airline", by contrast, will just flat out cancel the flight and then work on protecting people if they aren't at an airport with a replacement aircraft available within a reasonable time, rather than have a 4-8-12-20 hour delay. Those that interline, have the option to re-accommodate on other carriers if they don't have their own flights to fall back on. (I've "trickle-protected" many a passenger by ones and twos on whatever flights you could find.) Southwest does very minimal interlining, but they generally have many of their own flights to fall back on, or have the deep pockets to actually write a check to put their pax on a competitor. (I do wonder how that's going to go as their model changes to new/revised markets with just single or double-dailies, rather than the 8-10 dailies of the historic business model.)

G4 may not have more mechanicals than others by big percentages, but they show up more because they just have to wait for one of their own airplanes no matter how long it takes. Break down in an airport where they are the only game in town, and then only once or twice a week, and problems get the big, "film at 11" notice.

Any ideas?



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlinetjwgrr From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 2503 posts, RR: 2
Reply 35, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 3352 times:

Quoting planenutz (Reply 13):
Flight 883 from Grand Rapids, MI to St. Petersburg, FL originally scheduled to depart Grand Rapids, MI at 6:20pm on March 30, 2013 will be operated as Flight 1883 on March 31, 2013 departing from Grand Rapids, MI at 10:35 am, arriving in St. Petersburg, FL at 1:05 pm.

Ahh...that explains the G4 Mad Dog getting an engine change on the ramp at GRR. Bummer for the pax- but, you get what you pay for.



Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1228 posts, RR: 2
Reply 36, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2941 times:

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 17):
No. Nobody should expect substandard performance. You should expect to be transported safely and in a timely manner. If an airline is incapable of delivering this basic service, then it should have its license pulled.

That's not what I was referring to when I said they should expect substandard performance. I was referring to performance with regards to customer relations during IROPS. Every airline deals with delays -- some worse than others -- but what sets airlines apart is how the customers are handled throughout the process. G4 has outsourced virtually the entire workforce except for pilots and cabin crew, meaning the people who "work for them" often could care less about the passengers. This was what I meant when I said that G4 customers should expect substandard performance, because more traditional carriers are more likely to take care of their customers (that being a relative term, of course).

Quoting sprout5199 (Reply 20):
Have you ever flown on them? I have many times, and so have my daughters. Have there been delys? Yes, and also have seen them actually leave 15 min. early. All in all, very nice flights, very comfortable, more than I expect for the price. I dont complain about the bag fees, BOB stuff as thats why I have a cheap ticket price.

Maybe Hawaii was more than they could chew, but for who they are and where they fly, they are a nice break from all the connecting flights I would have had to take flying to eastern Tenn from Florida.

I have, and I'm not exactly a fan. The longest sector I've flown is AZA-LAS, and that's the longest I think I can handle. I fly a lot and am a UA elite, so I look for very different things in an airline than the infrequent flier. I don't think I would refer to G4 as nice or comfortable, but to each his own and I am by no means disrespecting your opinion -- I just don't happen to share it.

Since the announcement of their foray to the Hawaiian market, I have been of the opinion that Hawaii was way more than G4 was ready for. Given all of the negative press in recent weeks, I think more people are beginning to see that. This, along with the 757 and adding a fleet of Airbus, is breaking away from the business model that made them the only profitable carrier throughout the economic recession.

Changing a business model over time to allow for a logical and calculated expansion to new markets is a good thing. However, G4 knows nothing other than rapid expansion -- essentially the aviation version of Blitzkrieg. That worked before with a fleet of Maddogs connecting small communities to sunny destinations, but adding two new fleet types in less than two years while trying to break into the Hawaii market is foolish. It seems like many of the decisions made in the past 2-3 years have been made with very little thought. It's all too much, too fast, and I think it's really going to bite them...in fact, I think the biting has already started.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3447 posts, RR: 6
Reply 37, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 2700 times:

Quoting Wingtips56 (Reply 34):
Southwest does very minimal interlining, but they generally have many of their own flights to fall back on, or have the deep pockets to actually write a check to put their pax on a competitor.

Interestingly, fellow ULCC Spirit will also buy tickets right off other airlines' websites to protect their passengers in the event of an MX or crew delay/cancellation, though obviously it's a last resort.


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4432 posts, RR: 6
Reply 38, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2677 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Does any one know where G4 keeps spares? I've seen quite a few MD-80's on the ground in LAS. I'm sure at times there are many more available than others available due to G4's less than daily flights. I assume G4 has the reserve pilots available to fly these spares in as well?

It's unfortunate they don't interline with a major like UA or DL. Sure it wouldn't help at all airports, but a good chunk of them G4 serves are served by DL and/or UA, at least in the upper Midwest.

It's unfortunate as a passenger to get "strung along" if the airline was stating the replacement aircraft was on the way several times. The good thing is the A319's will probably have a better dispatch rate compared to the MD's, although it will take time to build the Airbus fleet.


User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2087 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 8 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2678 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 36):
G4 has outsourced virtually the entire workforce except for pilots and cabin crew, meaning the people who "work for them" often could care less about the passengers. This was what I meant when I said that G4 customers should expect substandard performance, because more traditional carriers are more likely to take care of their customers (that being a relative term, of course).

If the contractor's station supervisor is tolerating subpar performance then the airline needs to outsource to someone else. I'm pretty sure that contractors have the same incentive to provide a quality service as employees, if they don't they will lose the contract and not have enough work to provide the needed hours. However in G4s case I don't really think they care because they seem to have a ryan air mentality even charging up to $75 for a seat selection at time of purchase.



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
B6 Flight On Runway 8 + Hours At JFK posted Wed Feb 14 2007 23:13:47 by Spinkid
American Eagle Flight Delayed 4 Hours Due To FA Argument posted Thu Sep 20 2012 04:41:23 by JONC777
787 First Flight Delayed At Least One Year? Part 2 posted Thu Jul 30 2009 12:36:40 by Scbriml
Delayed Mango Flight - Pax Get Violent At Airport posted Tue Mar 25 2008 08:11:00 by Umfolozi
CO Flight Delayed Well Over 24 Hours posted Tue May 2 2006 02:00:48 by Klwright69
C-Series First Flight Delayed To June 2013 posted Wed Nov 7 2012 04:38:44 by mastermis
DL Flight Delayed By Massive Swarm Of Bees posted Fri Aug 3 2012 10:11:34 by akelley728
Final Hours At Kai Tak. Video posted Thu Jul 19 2012 14:05:50 by contrails15
Allegiant Flight: SEA To YEG Jan 17 posted Tue Jan 17 2012 12:58:56 by yegbey01
Update: QF VH-OEJ Arriving SYD Tonight 21/01 at 21:20 posted Thu Jan 12 2012 19:14:45 by EK413