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JetBlue To Finally Announce ORH Service  
User currently offlinembk1999 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 9 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 9016 times:

Looks like the big day has finally arrived....

http://www.worcestermag.com/blogs/da...&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582

Pretty sure they're not going there to open up a new Starbucks  

60 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineglobetrotter29 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8884 times:

Good for Worcester and B6, I wish them both success.

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16939 posts, RR: 48
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 8709 times:

Wow, I don't know what's more of a Hail Mary, B6 announcing ORH or Penair announcing BOS ISP.


E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 681 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8531 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):

Well both Pen Air are B6 are getting incentives for this so neither...

Pen Air BOS-ISP = A fifth round draft pick that may be servicable

B6 ORH-??? (most likely MCO or FLL) = letting the third string QB play during preseason


User currently offlinespinkid From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1070 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8532 times:

I don't know. Governor's have shown up for stranger things. That article seems filled with lots of conjecture.

I'd be surprised to see jetBlue offering service there, unless they are getting lots of incentives, then you might see some service to FLL and MCO.


User currently offlinejerseyguy From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 1834 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8521 times:
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Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 2):
Wow, I don't know what's more of a Hail Mary, B6 announcing ORH or Penair announcing BOS ISP.

I'm pretty sure this has to do with bartering with Massport



Frontier Early Returns Ascent Status| Webmaster of an unoffical TTN page see profile for details
User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 8396 times:

I hope it's true and I like Bill's blog; but he's not exactly a solid source in this particular article.

But here's hoping it's true!


User currently offlinebomber996 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 390 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 8312 times:

There goes any chance of B6 in MHT in the next couple of years... Well done...

What kind of things is B6 gona get from Massport at BOS besides C to themselves?

Peace   



AVIATION - A Vacation In Any Town, I Own Nothing
User currently offlineBlueJuice From United States of America, joined Jun 2010, 231 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8067 times:

G4 has plenty of blue in their livery.   

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16939 posts, RR: 48
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7959 times:

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 3):
Well both Pen Air are B6 are getting incentives for this so neither...

I would hope so. If they're already losing money in BOS the idea of flooding the neighborhood with capacity isn't a good one.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineRDUCO From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7879 times:

PEX has a blue livery too


Loving it
User currently offlinedeltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8868 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 7873 times:

Would highly expect ORH to be announced tomorrow. Guessing FLL/MCO.

[Edited 2013-04-02 20:23:39]

User currently offlineBOStonsox From United States of America, joined Dec 2007, 1973 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 7662 times:

I spoke with a B6 flight attendant and he said that ORH and 3x BOS-LGA were on the way. Worcester deserves to get B6 service. While it is a city bus, there is the #19 bus to Union Station where the intercity bus terminal is as well as the commuter rail station to Boston and other destinations in the MetroWest Area.

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
There goes any chance of B6 in MHT in the next couple of years... Well done...

I would hope not. Other carriers have served all seven of the major New England airports before, why can't they now?



2013 World Series Champions!
User currently offlineBA744PHX From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 333 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7430 times:

well ORH is loading on Jetblue's drop down menu however flights are not

User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 7386 times:

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
There goes any chance of B6 in MHT in the next couple of years... Well done...

I don't think the two have any correlation. MHT would make money for B6. ORH won't make a dime for B6, and will go away before you can spell "failure". As others pointed out, there must be an ulterior motive. Once B6 gets what it wants from Massport they will leave ORH.


User currently offlineJBAirwaysFan From United States of America, joined May 2009, 911 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7210 times:

Good for ORH, but I can't imagine them not starting DAB if they're going into ORH. Even if ORH will be subsidized I can't see them passing over DAB yet going into ORH where no other commercial service exists at the moment.

Hopefully this one of a few new domestic stations JetBlue announces this year.



In Loving Memory of Casey Edward Falconer; May 16, 1992-May 9, 2012
User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4011 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7152 times:

I don't believe that JetBlue to Worcester means 'No' for Manchester. The two have no correlation, except to thoroughly embarrass MHT officials who now run the only airport in New England (aside from Bangor) without JetBlue service. More damning: Only one New England state without JetBlue service: New Hampshire.

In the end, this is all about leverage for JetBlue at Logan. In exchange for serving Worcester, JetBlue will get favorable treatment at BOS. But AA tried this trick and left after it failed. But the difference between AA and B6 is that one airline cares and invests in Boston while the other doesn't.

This is a 'Bad Hair Day' for the folks running MHT because they will have to answer the question: Why them and not us?


User currently offlineNASBWI From Bahamas, joined Feb 2005, 1286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7153 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 14):
ORH won't make a dime for B6, and will go away before you can spell "failure". As others pointed out, there must be an ulterior motive.

I could be wrong, but wasn't SWF part of a 'package' with PANYNJ for B6 to gain more access to NYC airports? SWF used to see more flying, but is down to 1x daily FLL and 2x daily MCO flights, and I'm guessing that it doesn't make much money for them, yet it hasn't been axed...Perhaps the same will be said of ORH (should it be a reality): B6 may offer token service there, that'd be subsidized by MassPort.



Fierce, Fabulous, and Flawless ;)
User currently offlineIcebird757 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 656 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 7153 times:

ORH will be seeing blue E190's.


LGB....where you can watch the grass grow because the traffic is so slow.
User currently offlineshadez From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7071 times:

1x daily to FLL and MCO is now bookable beginning Nov 7

User currently offlineglobetrotter29 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7001 times:

Wow, their introductory fares are $56 one way.

User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4011 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6968 times:

Quoting globetrotter29 (Reply 20):
Wow, their introductory fares are $56 one way.

If you want to come home, that's where they nail you   


User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6917 times:

My opinion, foolish move for many reasons. Many airlines have tried and failed. ORH is always fog prone with runway visibility issues. Flights will end up diverting to PVD anyway, probably several times a month. Concentrate on establishing the PVD market.

User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6899 times:

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
There goes any chance of B6 in MHT in the next couple of years.

I dont think it shuts out MHT at all. More now than ever, airports are serving their own markets, and ORH in itself is certainly not a priority for B6 (ALB and ISP on their own are much better candidates) but if Massport starts doing favors for you by moving airlines around so you can get your own terminal...you need to return the favor.

1x each on an E190 is a fairly small token

MHT may be more than a couple years off, but certainly still within the 5 year picture in my opinion, but the market demand will need to support A320s so it can have the viable self-sustaining service that ORH is not.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinewerdywerd From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 6866 times:

Official Press Release:

http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix....-newsArticle&ID=1802982&highlight=

Quote:

JetBlue Announces its 80th City: Worcester, Massachusetts!

-- Daily service to Fort Lauderdale and Orlando take flight November 7, 2013 --
-- Customers can book sale fares one way from $60 to Orlando and from $70 to Fort Lauderdale today through April 10, 2013 at www.jetblue.com/new for travel between Nov. 8 and Dec. 17, 2013 (blackout dates apply) (a) --
NEW YORK, April 3, 2013 /PRNewswire via COMTEX/ --JetBlue Airways (Nasdaq: JBLU) today announces the newest addition to its growing network, Worcester, Massachusetts. Service to the airline's 80th city will take flight on Thursday, November 7, 2013 with daily service to Fort Lauderdale and Orlando, Florida.




User currently offlineloggat From United States of America, joined Feb 2000, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7132 times:

I thought I also read that the ORH tower is being closed due to the sequester too. So in inclimate weather, it should make things interesting. I wonder if that will be the only airport that B6 will operate in to that won't have an operating control tower? I learned to fly out of ORH so I know what a ghost town airport it is, but I also know that when the snow/ice rolls in, it's a lot easier to get field condition reports from an ATC tower, versus Joe Blow in a pickup truck.


There are 3 types of people in this world, those that can count, and those that can't.
User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4011 posts, RR: 2
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 7243 times:

A small 'FAIL' by JetBlue: They flew an A320 to Worcester this morning instead of the E190 that will be used there.

As has been pointed out many times by the 'power-brokers' in Worcester: The community needs to support these flights, not only at 'convenient' periods like school vacations...but year-round. Granted, Orlando and Ft. Lauderdale are 'vacation' destinations so the spotlight will be on the airport to see what Worcester does with those flights. I'm sure 'spotters' will go to the terminal on random, non-holiday periods and count the people getting on and off those flights. Don't count on Massport or JetBlue to divulge that information. I would think that FAA web sites ought to make that information available under 'freedom of information' requests. And if not and all else fails, people will do 'spot checks' to keep everyone honest. No way you can claim 90% LF if only 45 people get on and off those E190s.


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 16939 posts, RR: 48
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7239 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 16):
But the difference between AA and B6 is that one airline cares and invests in Boston while the other doesn't.

Please, BOS chose the cheapest fare as they always do, and B6 is the only one that can afford to take the cheap traffic, and even they've admitted BOS loses money. DL invested in BOS--how'd that work out?



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 7216 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 26):
A small 'FAIL' by JetBlue: They flew an A320 to Worcester this morning instead of the E190 that will be used there.

That was probably intentional as opposed to a "fail"

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 26):
I would think that FAA web sites ought to make that information available under 'freedom of information' requests. And if not and all else fails, people will do 'spot checks' to keep everyone honest. No way you can claim 90% LF if only 45 people get on and off those E190s.

You cant fake passenger numbers like that due to the way taxes and things like PFCs get calculated.



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6680 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 17):

I could be wrong, but wasn't SWF part of a 'package' with PANYNJ for B6 to gain more access to NYC airports? SWF used to see more flying, but is down to 1x daily FLL and 2x daily MCO flights, and I'm guessing that it doesn't make much money for them, yet it hasn't been axed...Perhaps the same will be said of ORH (should it be a reality): B6 may offer token service there, that'd be subsidized by MassPort.

Not quite. But Chuck Schumner asked them to serve SWF...and they were pretty indebted to him. So they did it. I notice, Chucky-boy is trying to get ISP...but B6 drew the line there.

They had to serve BUF, ROC, SYR, and BTV for the JFK slots. Ironically, all are very profitable for them.

I agree that ORH is likely a mistake.

And a mistake in the routes too. They would likely lose less money with 2 daily 190 service to JFK...and still capture the same traffic.

I would have used some off peak slots and done that.


User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6582 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 29):
And a mistake in the routes too. They would likely lose less money with 2 daily 190 service to JFK...and still capture the same traffic.

Agree, they're going for 100% O&D leisure and presumably using their particular assumptions plus the Allegiant stats as the basis for the justification. It never ceases to amaze how common sense can be trumped by the existence of data in the route planning world.

Better in the long run would be to open up the whole B6 network through JFK which would draw leisure and business travelers who find connecting in T5 to be far more pleasurable than driving back and forth to BOS. Once loyalty is built around the network, adding O&Ds to Florida become easier to fill.


User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 6357 times:

Quoting NASBWI (Reply 17):
I could be wrong, but wasn't SWF part of a 'package' with PANYNJ for B6 to gain more access to NYC airports? SWF used to see more flying, but is down to 1x daily FLL and 2x daily MCO flights, and I'm guessing that it doesn't make much money for them, yet it hasn't been axed...Perhaps the same will be said of ORH (should it be a reality): B6 may offer token service there, that'd be subsidized by MassPort.

There are significant differences though. SWF is 70 miles from the nearest airport while ORH is 45 miles from BOS. SWF as easy access, ORH doesn't. Most of the potential passengers for ORH are likely to NOT live in Worcester, putting them a lot closer to BOS than the 45 miles mentioned above. On top of all, Worcester was the snowiest city in the country this past Winter. That ought to contribute to some unreliable service not to mention passengers not being able to get to the airport for their flights.

Quoting Sligo (Reply 30):
Better in the long run would be to open up the whole B6 network through JFK which would draw leisure and business travelers who find connecting in T5 to be far more pleasurable than driving back and forth to BOS.

Driving to/from BOS, from the West is not nearly as bad as from the North and South. And if you consider that the large catchment area is actually East of Worcester along the 495 belt, then driving to ORH won't create a huge time savings when compared to driving to BOS. That in a nutshell is why ORH has never been able to retain any significant air service.


User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6273 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 31):
driving to ORH won't create a huge time savings when compared to driving to BOS. That in a nutshell is why ORH has never been able to retain any significant air service.

Yes, the drive comparison has always been debatable with the lack of an ORH access road always coming up sooner or later. But even with the lack of access road and even with the new tunnels to BOS of the past 10 years, ORH has a good, discrete population to market to b/c of the drive is easier for a million or two people..esp at rush hours, the cost of parking, the easy-in/easy-out nature of ORH, and the fact that it has a very nice terminal.

There is enough of a market there that would be willing to fly from ORH regularly if it had real, consistent service with sufficient frequency at a decent fare. Allegiant or Direct Air or even B6 2x to Florida will not reverse the leakage to BOS in any significant way and that's too bad.


User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1082 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 5887 times:

1x Daily to MCO/FLL E190

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/jetblu...s-worcester-florida-150404282.html



These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
User currently offlinewerdywerd From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 538 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5432 times:

Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDgHr...hare&list=UUWvqb5Oore0-h3HcC1CL_Qg


User currently offlineknope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2818 posts, RR: 30
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 5158 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 27):
Quoting chrisnh (Reply 26):
I would think that FAA web sites ought to make that information available under 'freedom of information' requests. And if not and all else fails, people will do 'spot checks' to keep everyone honest. No way you can claim 90% LF if only 45 people get on and off those E190s.

You cant fake passenger numbers like that due to the way taxes and things like PFCs get calculated.

Onboard passenger loads are a matter of public record and are released monthly with about an 80 day lag time.


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 24
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4640 times:

Quoting bomber996 (Reply 7):
There goes any chance of B6 in MHT in the next couple of years... Well done...

No kidding. I'd much rather drive to MHT than ORH, too, unless I lived south/west of… idk, Framingham.

Maybe MHT would siphon away too many Logan travelers.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4011 posts, RR: 2
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4161 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 36):
No kidding. I'd much rather drive to MHT than ORH, too, unless I lived south/west of… idk, Framingham.

Maybe MHT would siphon away too many Logan travelers.

Actually, I think this bodes well for MHT. As many have said, MHT isn't a matter of 'if' but 'when.'

The supposed 'obstacles' to coming here are being knocked down one by one:

1.) "MHT is too close to Boston; JetBlue doesn't want to cannibalize their traffic." Uhhh..PVD and now Worcester
2.) "JetBlue doesn't want to go where Southwest is." Uhhh...BOS, PVD, BDL, PWM etc. etc. etc.

In fact, as I said earlier, they will make a bigger splash with MHT because it will then represent something that Southwest cannot claim: Service to all six New England states. If JetBlue gets to MHT before Southwest gets to BTV, that trophy is theirs.


User currently offlinecontrails15 From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 1181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4141 times:

Ah, thats why there was a ferry going up there today.


Giants football!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9235 posts, RR: 25
Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 4141 times:

Quoting RL757PVD (Reply 28):
That was probably intentional as opposed to a "fail"

Very intentional. the A320 is much more tv camera "on board" friendly than an E190.



Eternal darkness we all should dread. It's hard to party when you're dead.
User currently offlinemesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 2483 posts, RR: 4
Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 4017 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting werdywerd (Reply 34):

Love thee video! Having family up in NE has made me learn how to pronounce those kinda things   



\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
User currently offlineVS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1062 posts, RR: 0
Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 3978 times:

Quoting werdywerd (Reply 34):
Video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gDgHr...hare&list=UUWvqb5Oore0-h3HcC1CL_Qg

Great video! Very nice way to introduce the new destination - hope it works out.


User currently offlinecentralma From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 31 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 3926 times:

I was on a flight one of the first days Northwest started flying to ORH. I remember the PA announcement..."welcome on board flight (xxx) with nonstop service to..(click, pause, click) nonstop service to... ( click, pause, click) well, you know where we are going."

I knew i was flying to ORH just by listening to the accents of the passengers.

I also remember an outgoing flight from ORH to the west coast where we never took off from the first airport on my ticket, the next 3 airports were not on my ticket, and my bag reached Los Angeles at least 8 hours before I did....fog at ORH and bused to BOS, with bags handled more efficiently than passengers.

ORH is supposed to be getting a new taxiway and a Cat III ILS. Parking was readily available (even free, i think) in the 80s, even now that would be a big draw over BOS and even PVD.


User currently offlinecloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 793 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3719 times:

Quoting N766UA (Reply 36):
No kidding. I'd much rather drive to MHT than ORH, too, unless I lived south/west of… idk, Framingham.

Maybe MHT would siphon away too many Logan travelers.

I am assuming then that most of us are really just some shared hallucination, or that we are FAR too uncultured to fly anywhere?

There is a huge catchment area for ORH. It is pretty dead central, and if prices are cheaper than flying out of BOS, then leisure travelers will give it a shot. Parking may not be free - but then again it very well might be, staffing is, shall we say, inconsistent at the collection booths even when they do have flights.

Worcester itself is pretty well connected, between the pike, 290/395 and 190. The last few miles are the challenge and I agree does need to be addressed. Perhaps a regularly scheduled airline might be the tipping point it needs to get that done.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently onlinezrs70 From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 3011 posts, RR: 9
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 3283 times:

Interesting diagram of ORH's airline history:


http://www.telegram.com/assets/pdf/WT17668313.PDF



14 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2013
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3134 times:

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 43):
There is a huge catchment area for ORH. It is pretty dead central, and if prices are cheaper than flying out of BOS, then leisure travelers will give it a shot. Parking may not be free - but then again it very well might be, staffing is, shall we say, inconsistent at the collection booths even when they do have flights.
Quoting Sligo (Reply 32):
There is enough of a market there that would be willing to fly from ORH regularly if it had real, consistent service with sufficient frequency at a decent fare. Allegiant or Direct Air or even B6 2x to Florida will not reverse the leakage to BOS in any significant way and that's too bad.

No one has been willing to fly from ORH for years. The market can't possibly be that good. Just about everyone agrees that B6 is getting something in return for starting service to ORD. They're not doing it because they think they can make money or because they think that there is a market. If that was the case they would have started service a long time ago, or someone else would have. The bottom line is this is politics. Re-instating commercial air service at ORH is something that the governor needed to check off his campaign donors list. It's as simple as that. This won't last.


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6346 posts, RR: 9
Reply 46, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 3132 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 9):
I would hope so. If they're already losing money in BOS the idea of flooding the neighborhood with capacity isn't a good one.

Are you saying that B6 is currently losing money in BOS?


User currently offlineB6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2848 posts, RR: 7
Reply 47, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3121 times:

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 46):
Are you saying that B6 is currently losing money in BOS?

Based on the Analyst Day call held a few weeks ago, it was. However, that is expected when you expand at such a high rate in one city as we did in BOS.

The Analyst Day presentation is on the webstie, and I think there may be a recorded version of the call itself here:

http://investor.jetblue.com/phoenix....=irol-EventDetails&EventId=4929546



"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 681 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2996 times:

Quoting B6JFKH81 (Reply 47):

From looking at the presentation slides - B6 was in the black in BOS for 2009, 2010 but trending down that year, lost money in 2011 and rebounded sharply in 2012.


User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3176 posts, RR: 5
Reply 49, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2962 times:

That is when they shifted strategy in BOS. It seems like it effected them badly. BOS used to biggy back JFK when they opened a new city. Then, in an attempt to capture business traffic, they started adding high frequency routes out of BOS to close in cities. I have said for a while, they are bloodbaths.

I think B6 should be content to expand smartly. They are not Delta.

Did they need 16 flights a day from BOS to DCA? Couldn't they grab a piece of the market with 5? And to all the people that tell me management says DCA is profitable...look at the loads and look at the fares. They are taking a bath. Same with BWI. Same with PHL coming up.

Their DFW approach has been better. 3 flights a day. Build up a token (yet profitable) presence on the route


User currently offlineFlytravel From United States of America, joined Dec 2009, 873 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2903 times:

Since B6 wants business traffic from BOS, they need destinations and frequencies, but to offset losses in being competitive, they might as well charge for the first bag to get that ancillary revenue. Since all the legacies charge the fee and its more or less industry standard, companies reimburse their travelers for that expense. The volume leisure VFR traffic flying might hesitate to pay the $20-25 fee but the low fares and DirecTV will still get them on the plane, or they'll just pack light and not check a bag. I can't see it as the deal breaker.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 49):
Did they need 16 flights a day from BOS to DCA? Couldn't they grab a piece of the market with 5? And to all the people that tell me management says DCA is profitable...look at the loads and look at the fares. They are taking a bath. Same with BWI. Same with PHL coming up.
BOS-DCA and BOS-IAD together seem excessive, but I think some number more than just 5, maybe 8x to DCA would have been fine. BWI is a different market slightly capturing Baltimore-Towson and Annapolis. The 5x to PHL isn't much and basic to compete against US. It's all short-haul, unlike BOS-DFW.

[Edited 2013-04-06 10:55:55]

User currently offlineadamh8297 From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 681 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 2857 times:

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 50):

Since B6 wants business traffic from BOS, they need destinations and frequencies, but to offset losses in being competitive, they might as well charge for the first bag to get that ancillary revenue.

Their presentation stated that there were too many negatives from doing that which means they considered it.

Quoting Flytravel (Reply 50):
Since all the legacies charge the fee and its more or less industry standard, companies reimburse their travelers for that expense

I agree with you that baggage fees do not affect business travel that much but, for business trips up to a week that do not require supplies (i.e. items tradeshows/trainings etc.), most biz travelers go carry-on only. I do think that people tend to not care about ticketing change fees and on-board food purchases when its billed to the company.


User currently offlinecloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 793 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2789 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 45):
No one has been willing to fly from ORH for years. The market can't possibly be that good. Just about everyone agrees that B6 is getting something in return for starting service to ORD. They're not doing it because they think they can make money or because they think that there is a market. If that was the case they would have started service a long time ago, or someone else would have. The bottom line is this is politics. Re-instating commercial air service at ORH is something that the governor needed to check off his campaign donors list. It's as simple as that. This won't last.

The problem is that ORH hasn't had legitimate service for so long that no one has had the opportunity to use it. For that matter they still don't - B6 is just recreating the same old Mass to Florida route. What will hopefully happen - both here and in PVD - is that they smarten up and start serving JFK. Both Boston and PVD have easy train access to NYC. Worcester does not. It's a little too far to drive. A three times a day service with the Embraer, kept reasonably priced (none of these $250 fares!) would pick up quite a bit of traffic - both from people traveling to NYC as well as the price conscious traveler looking for the cheaper fares and better options out of JFK. Even with political favors B6 isn't going to be able to expand Boston forever. And if they want to increase their profits out of Boston, they need to shift lower profit margin routes to airports with lower operating costs. Now they can offer cheap fares through PVD and ORH, which still fall in teh market area, and offer higher fares but more convenience through BOS.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlinedeltairlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8868 posts, RR: 12
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2761 times:

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 52):
It's a little too far to drive.

It really isn't though. Driving from downtown Worcester to Manhattan takes 2h45 if you avoid traffic, and it's all freeway (my preferred route is 290 to the Pike to 84 to 684 to 87).

When you consider that ORH is not the easiest airport to get to, you get there 45 minutes before departure (and I'm being generous here), take a 1h10 block time flight, then spend 45 minutes to get to Manhattan (and that's if you don't even have bags!), you're looking at a wash at best.

Now, if you want to feed connections, that's a different story. However, to waste valuable JFK slots and gate space on a route that would be heavily feed (thus dragging down yields), I don't see it happening. As it stands, most B6 destinations out of JFK can be reached out of BOS nonstop, and the time that someone would spend doing ORH-JFK-PUJ would take them just as long to drive 45 minutes to BOS and get on the nonstop - plus, there'd be no need to worry about getting caught up in JFK delays.


User currently offlinechrisnh From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4011 posts, RR: 2
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2509 times:

Quoting cloudboy (Reply 43):
There is a huge catchment area for ORH. It is pretty dead central,

The same can be said for Mid America Airport, so how's that been working for them?


User currently offlineSligo From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 55, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2422 times:

Quoting chrisnh (Reply 54):
The same can be said for Mid America Airport, so how's that been working for them?

Chris,

Catchment must be defined not as how many people live close to a particular airport, but how many people the airport in question is clearly easier to get to versus other airports. ORH has a strong, discrete catchment that would clearly prefer to stay close to home and fly from ORH; it numbers 1-2 million. Mid America has significant overlap with STL; discrete catchment might be a few hundred thousand tops for Mid America.

There's really no comparison.


User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5958 posts, RR: 17
Reply 56, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2261 times:

How far is ORH from BOS, PVD, MHT, BDL?


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4630 posts, RR: 12
Reply 57, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2233 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 56):
How far is ORH from BOS, PVD, MHT, BDL?

Using Worcester city center not airport...

PVD 51 min
BOS 53 min
MHT 69 min
BDL 73 min

So all pretty close by and the distribution is probably varied by which side of town you live on, though looking at the map the city sprawls more north and east.

If I had to guess I would probably guess the leakage looks something like this:

BOS 65%
PVD 15%
BDL 15%
MHT 5% (only because MHT doesnt over anything unique that the closer options do and least amount of choices)



Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlinecloudboy From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 793 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2090 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 56):
How far is ORH from BOS, PVD, MHT, BDL?

By miles or by minutes?
Boston is probably a good 10 to 15 minutes closer during non rush hour traffic, but if you add rush hour you are talking probably an extra 10-15 more. It is a little more of a straight shot in, however. Balanced out by tolls.

But that is from the city proper. This is New England the shortest path between point A and point B doesn't exist. That's what makes it more challenging to guage. Those along the Rt. 2 corridor have a little more difficult time getting to the airport without going out of the way, those along the 395 corridor, while PVD is closer find it easier to get to Logan, whereas their more easterly neighbors along 146 find it easier to get to TF Green. South on 495 it is pretty easy to pick up 95 into PVD, But if you live along 395, it is easier to take that north to the pike. Southwest Worcester County is probably closer to Boston by highway miles, since to get to BDL you need to go out of your way. But it is a much easier drive.

Navigating New England is more art than science. And even getting to ORH depends on how well you know the back roads. If you know and are willing ot travel back roads those south, north and west of ORH can get there pretty easy, but if you don't know them, you end up going around the city to get there.

sorry to not have a clear answer. And that is the key here. They have to clearly define some airport access routes, even if they don't make any connectors. It can make a huge difference in how mush easier or harder it is to get to ORH.



"Six becoming three doesn't create more Americans that want to fly." -Adam Pilarski
User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22304 posts, RR: 20
Reply 59, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2031 times:

Quoting Sligo (Reply 55):
Mid America has significant overlap with STL; discrete catchment might be a few hundred thousand tops for Mid America.

Before we start slicing and dicing Saint Louis County--some of which, owing to traffic patterns, is probably in what you call the "discrete catchment" for BLV--it's around 800,000 (the three Illinois counties in the MSA plus Jefferson County Missouri).



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 5958 posts, RR: 17
Reply 60, posted (1 year 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1988 times:

Is the schedule for ORH the same as SWF? They seeme to be doing OK there, theyve been there, what, 5 years. People always say "ITS TOO FAR FROM NYC"


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
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