slcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 2899 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2728 times:
153 miles but SO much traffic potential in the way or ferries. It really should be a hit if they timed it perfectly for business traffic. The timing seems really good if you are in bos and need to head to LI for the day but not ideal for LI to BOS for a meeting.
usflyguy From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 679 posts, RR: 0 Reply 5, posted (8 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2708 times:
Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 2): They are an AS partner first and foremost being based in Alaska
AS is based in Seattle, Washington. I'd be surprised if a carrier code-shares with an airline just because they're based in a state that's name is painted on the side of another airline. I'm pretty sure they'll code-share with whoever they can as long as the airline adds value to their network. AS would add absolutely NO value to this flight.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
Art at ISP From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 175 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (8 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2345 times:
ORD from ISP has been tried regularly since 1971 by AA, and perhaps UA at one point. Flights could be full but still lost money. Southwest only recently cut ISP-MDW, so I think that market is still poor from a business perspective.
I'd still like to see one of the majors back at ISP other than US, I just don't think there is a large enough market left to attract a big player. This new service is on Saab 340's. Shades of Business Express...deja vu all over again..
Who'd have ever imagined!? An airline known (to those who even know of PenAir at all) as a modern-day successor to Alaskan bush airlines flying as a commuter some 3,400 miles from 'home.' PenAir is a well-run airline for whom I have the utmost respect...and wish them the very best in their ventures a proverbial 'world away' from from their origins.
knope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2661 posts, RR: 30 Reply 14, posted (8 months 3 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 2099 times:
Brief synoposis covering some of the facts of this, including some things which were in the OP's links (which some appear not to have seen.)
--PenAir is already operating in Boston with a handful of EAS markets they were awarded last year.
--The partnership with Alaska Airlines is long-standing based on their operations in the state of Alaska. It's nothing established for nor intended to benefit the operation in New England.
--PenAIr does not code share with Alaska on their Boston flights.
--Because PenAir's operating is focused on Boston, if they're going to fly the classic business schedule it essentially needs to be based on Boston, not in Islip. Both the morning and evening round trip operates BOS-ISP-BOS, not ISP-BOS-ISP. Were it to be "based" in Islip and fly ISP-BOS-ISP with an early-morning flight, then the plane would sit idle in ISP all day until the evening ISP-BOS-ISP flight. That essentially strands a crew and an aircraft in ISP all day until the evening flight. If they're committed to a classic business schedule as they have published, basing the place and crew in ISP is a non-starter until/unless a more complex and frequent operation comes to pass.
--This service is "subsidized" with incentives and initial marketing money, but not with revenue guarantees, travel banks or similar loss-covering provisions. These sorts of incentives and marketing stipends are very common at airports large and small for specific new services. So while it is definitely a subsidy of sorts, it's not out of the ordinary and definitely does not ensure profits for PenAir.
I'm definiltey hopeful the service succeeds and demonstrates a niche exists for turpoprop service in targeted markets. The days when 6x/day 200-mile hops with 19-seat props were commonplace and profitable are long gone. But I do think there are many city pairs with perhaps 5-7 hour drives where enough travelers (esp business travelers) are willing to pay fares high enough to support nonstop turboprop service. My biggest concern...both about BOS-ISP and about similar services I propose...is that they face real dificulty if they operate without a frequent flyer tie-in. The real road warriors you need to chose your nonstop flights are often additcted to FF programs. Even if they're Delta junkies and you can only offer them United miles, they probably have a lesser-used United account to at least earn something. But if those travelers can't earn useful credits, many won't make the change from their current means of travel, whatever that may be.
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2808 posts, RR: 7 Reply 16, posted (8 months 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 1780 times:
Glad to see ISP and BOS connected once again, and it'll be neat seeing the Saab coming in and out!
Quoting BOStonsox (Reply 9): This is quite a surprise. I've always thought that B6 would be the carrier to launch this route someday, but PenAir should be able to make it work.
I hate to say this, but I honestly think my airline would be WAY too much lift unless we had significant transfer opportunities....and that's coming from someone who is a life-long Long Islander so far and has quite a bit of pride in my airline. Even with significant transfer capabilities, where are they going to transfer to that they couldn't get a non-stop flight out of JFK on us (I know, I know, ISP is barely 1/2 way into Long Island, but still....) as I know many people that don't like adding extra legs to their trip and are willing to just schlep to JFK.
Any way you look at it, this sure as hell beats having to head all the way to the Throgs Neck Bridge or taking an expensive and slow ferry to get to the other side of the Long Island Sound and into New England!!!
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
I concur, I think an e190 would be too much aircraft. But, presumably they'd fly to FLL/MCO and maybe they could parlay that into some stroner brand-recognition which MIGHT help them a bit if they did start BOS.
\________(---)________/ :) World's most beautiful aircraft: 757-200, MD-88/90, E-190, A321
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2808 posts, RR: 7 Reply 18, posted (8 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 1401 times:
Quoting mesaflyguy (Reply 17): But, presumably they'd fly to FLL/MCO and maybe they could parlay that into some stroner brand-recognition which MIGHT help them a bit if they did start BOS.
As I have told Senator Schumer personally when he came to visit my facility and we startded discussing ISP, ISP - FLL/MCO would be an absolute money losing bloodbath until someone pulls out. WN already serves ISP - MCO, TPA, PBI, FLL, RSW. Many of these are seasonal with their higher demand periods so capacity is already at/exceeds demand, people are typically looking for the cheapest ticket which often times would be WN, and the only thing we had that WN couldn't offer before was the chance to transfer in FLL/MCO to continue to the Caribbean. Now that WN and FL are in bed together, that edge is slightly reduced as FL has some (not a lot, but some) presence in the Caribbean through FLL/MCO/BWI. NK had a HUGE edge over WN for that transfer capability in FLL which is why I was quite surprised to see them pull out of the ISP-FLL route they were offering.
As far as brand goes, it amazes me how Newsday and News12 continue to bash our airline. It seems every time we are featured in Newsday or News12 for any type of story (even the good ones like new service, a special event, etc.), they bring up the 2007 Valentines Day meltdown (come now....its been 6 years, really?). My father (who actually takes WN out of ISP most of the time intead of my own airline....I always get weird looks when dropping my parents off at ISP for their WN flight, walking into the terminal with B6 jacket on and whatnot LOL) was the one that noticed the trend and sent it to me with many examples. Not sure if that has changed recently as I do not watch News12 nor do I read Newsday, but my father did send me that stuff about a year or so ago. But I still know plenty of people who go all the way to JFK for our service. My friend from Quogue just flew out today for some sun-n-fun in the Caribbean actually (that is ONE HELL of a drive LOL!!!).
On a side note, when did WN drop ISP-MDW?? I was just looking at their route map and it doesn't pop up as a non-stop anymore?
"If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"
B6JFKH81 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2808 posts, RR: 7 Reply 20, posted (8 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 1310 times:
Quoting JBAirwaysFan (Reply 19): JetBlue's operating costs are lower than Southwest's so I imagine it would actually be the other way around.
...however the operating costs for B6 continue to climb, rapidly, and the folks higher up continue to push the "they're willing to pay a slight premium to take us instead of the other guys for the same route because of our service and products", so our fares have risen quite quickly. I do believe you are correct that there is a chance for the fares to be lower, but I have a feeling it would only be temporary until service is established and there is a customer base willing to pay the premium over WN. Time will tell, I guess. I wonder where B6 would operate out of at ISP. It would be weird operating out of the WN terminal, but I don't think there is anywhere else to operate out of LOL.