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Delta Shrinks Lavatories, Adds Seats  
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1613 posts, RR: 1
Posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 20630 times:

An article on NBCNews.com reports that Delta will decrease the size of its lavatories on board its 737-900s in order to fit 4 additional seats in the cabin:

http://www.nbcnews.com/travel/shrink...lta-fits-four-more-seats-1C9184100

This march toward cramming seats into every last crevice and space on board an aircraft makes Ryanair's proposal that passengers stand up seem less ludicrous every day!

65 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4212 posts, RR: 37
Reply 1, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 20479 times:

So they are going to unnoticably shrink the lav and add recline to seats that didn't previously have it... and people still complain? Brilliant!


Chicks dig winglets.
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 20411 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Thread starter):
This march toward cramming seats into every last crevice and space on board an aircraft makes Ryanair's proposal that passengers stand up seem less ludicrous every day!

How so?

From the article: Will passengers feel the squeeze in what already constitutes tight quarters for all but the smallest passengers? No, said Delta spokesman Morgan Durrant via e-mail, as the design utilizes previously unused space behind the sink and a sculpted exterior wall.

So if it's unnoticeable to the passenger, how is it remotely in the same ballpark as the Ryanair proposal?


User currently offlinebohica From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 2718 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 20258 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Thread starter):
4 additional seats in the cabin:

Can NBC explain how they will add 4 seats in coach as stated in the article? There are 6 seats in each row of Y on a 737.


User currently offlinersmith6621a From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 194 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 20237 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Thread starter):
This march toward cramming seats into every last crevice and space on board an aircraft makes Ryanair's proposal that passengers stand up seem less ludicrous every day!

Ladies and Gentleman...Welcome aboard Greyhound Airlines...

Corporations are always pushing the free market concept. Delta will spend all this money making the transition, the customer rejects this, the airline remove it and then......

...... THEY FILE BANKRUPTCY and the exploitation of the system starts all over again... MORE SEATS do not not do anything to make employment more secure for the worker.

How about the airlines stop participating in FUEL SPECULATION and drive the cost of gas back down to realistic levels.

These kind of STUNTS make me glad I am no longer in the industry.



Did You Ever Think Freedom Could Be this Bad
User currently offlineXFSUgimpLB41X From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4212 posts, RR: 37
Reply 5, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 20055 times:

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 4):
Ladies and Gentleman...Welcome aboard Greyhound Airlines...

Corporations are always pushing the free market concept. Delta will spend all this money making the transition, the customer rejects this, the airline remove it and then......

...... THEY FILE BANKRUPTCY and the exploitation of the system starts all over again... MORE SEATS do not not do anything to make employment more secure for the worker.

How about the airlines stop participating in FUEL SPECULATION and drive the cost of gas back down to realistic levels.

These kind of STUNTS make me glad I am no longer in the industry.

What an eloquent response. Now go fact check what is actually happening here. Seat pitch isn't being reduced.. the use of the space in the lav is only being made more efficient. But, by all means, react with emotion instead of logic.  



Chicks dig winglets.
User currently onlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13270 posts, RR: 100
Reply 6, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19945 times:
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Quoting JAAlbert (Thread starter):
An article on NBCNews.com reports that Delta will decrease the size of its lavatories on board its 737-900s in order to fit 4 additional seats in the cabin:

Past due. That was wasted space. Although, someone explain to me how they found room for 4 seats when it is 3 per side... I assume this is a mix of F/Y addition?


Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineflyfree727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19916 times:

my fav quote from the article.. "your standing there traveling at 500 MPH. They ain't water on the floor.."

Yet, DAILY, I see passengers go into the lav barefeet or only with socks.. I don't even try to explain any more.

AA ORD


User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 779 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19787 times:

Oh but could this mean there WILL be a "mid-cabin" 3rd lav....PLEAASSE!


My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlinetommy767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 6671 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19761 times:

Hah! The 739 is such a dog.


"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
User currently offlineCoachClass From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 441 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19758 times:

I suspect that in the future Delta will offer, in addition to the new smaller toilets, "comfort toilets" for a fee for those wishing a few extra inches in the loo in order to do luxury things like turn around or tie your shoelace.

User currently offlineBD338 From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 718 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19695 times:

Jury is still out for me if there really is that much wasted space in a design that is already very compact to allow an extra row and 4 seats onto an aircraft without some pinching of the legroom. While the 31-32" seat pitch for Y listed on DL.com for the 738 might still be very true on the 739 I have a feeling there will be a whole heck of a lot more at 31" than 32". Passengers really are an inconvenience to airlines, what with our desires to sit in something approaching half comfortable, stand up, go to the toilet etc  

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17672 posts, RR: 46
Reply 12, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19539 times:

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 5):
Seat pitch isn't being reduced.. the use of the space in the lav is only being made more efficient

This has all of the hallmarks of one of those "enhancements" that is great for the airline's costs, but not so much for one's knees. Without even looking I'm sure pitch is reduced, just not at ankle level or wherever they measure for the PR. Regardless, it's the right move.

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 4):
These kind of STUNTS make me glad I am no longer in the industry.

There was an article I saw somewhere recently whose headline essentially was "it's time to stop complaining about crappy airline service--passengers are getting exactly what they wanted". You should check it out.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlinemayor From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 10512 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 19486 times:

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 4):
These kind of STUNTS make me glad I am no longer in the industry.

Probably a good thing you're no longer in the industry, too, with your inability to read the entire article and figure out that it won't be nearly as bad as you say.

Quoting XFSUgimpLB41X (Reply 5):
But, by all means, react with emotion instead of logic.

  



"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20746 posts, RR: 62
Reply 14, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 19318 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 6):
Although, someone explain to me how they found room for 4 seats when it is 3 per side

On another forum it was postulated that due to the tapering of the long 739 cabin + having the seats recline into the lav wall, the last row on both sides of the main cabin will only have 2 seats each, not unlike other planes with reduced seat counts in the back rows.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineusairways85 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 3432 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 19288 times:

Can't imagine narrowbody lav's getting any smaller than they already are. I'm a relatively small guy and find them pretty tight.

User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 19107 times:

Quoting rsmith6621a (Reply 4):
Ladies and Gentleman...Welcome aboard Greyhound Airlines...

Corporations are always pushing the free market concept. Delta will spend all this money making the transition, the customer rejects this, the airline remove it and then......

...... THEY FILE BANKRUPTCY and the exploitation of the system starts all over again... MORE SEATS do not not do anything to make employment more secure for the worker.

How about the airlines stop participating in FUEL SPECULATION and drive the cost of gas back down to realistic levels.

These kind of STUNTS make me glad I am no longer in the industry.

I think YOU are really missing the point here.

What they ARE doing, as part of the fiduciary responsibility to the shareholder that they have, is increasing yields and with it profits.

It really is CRAZY to say that this will lead to them filing bankruptcy.


User currently offlinenws2002 From United States of America, joined Feb 2008, 900 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 19054 times:

Quoting usairways85 (Reply 15):
Can't imagine narrowbody lav's getting any smaller than they already are. I'm a relatively small guy and find them pretty tight.

Have you ever seen the forward lav on a CRJ-7/9?


User currently offlinePSAJet17 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 19052 times:

Nothing like reading this story and then finding the next forum topic is about Wizz Air.

[Edited 2013-04-03 12:59:18]

User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 3045 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 18894 times:

Quoting nws2002 (Reply 17):
Have you ever seen the forward lav on a CRJ-7/9?

or the aft lav on the CR7 and E145.


User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1265 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 18225 times:

Quoting PSAJet17 (Reply 18):
Nothing like reading this story and then finding the next forum topic is about Wizz Air.

  

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 10):
I suspect that in the future Delta will offer, in addition to the new smaller toilets, "comfort toilets" for a fee for those wishing a few extra inches in the loo in order to do luxury things like turn around or tie your shoelace.

You could be onto something here. Bring back the lounges, including a dedicated lav, but for a fee. Let's see.... have all seat pitch at 28" or something. Then have a for-a-fee lounge that some passengers use for almost the entire flight, other than takeoff and landing. It would be priced so it's less than, say, an F seat per passenger, but sized so it still drives more revenue per flight than current configurations. With the growth of independent airport lounges for a fee, maybe expanding to the plane would work. It's all about perception on the passengers' part.


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 17775 times:

The actual article's headline puts the whole story into a negative tailspin.

Instead, they should be praising Delta for finding wasted non-revenue generating space and turning it into revenue-generating space. Of course, that would require looking at the bigger picture.. and that's something a lot of people seem to lack nowadays. All they see is "smaller" and think bad. Heck, reading the article it doesn't even seem like the lavs are getting smaller.



Fly Delta Jets
User currently offlinereality From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 498 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 17178 times:

Quoting ghifty (Reply 21):
Heck, reading the article it doesn't even seem like the lavs are getting smaller.

Reading the article actually doesn't seem to give any information at all. Apparently this is a Boeing decision, not a Delta decision.

"B/E Aerospace (Nasdaq:BEAV), the world’s leading manufacturer of aircraft cabin interior products and the world’s leading distributor of aerospace fasteners and consumables, today announced that TheBoeing Company has selected B/E Aerospace to become the exclusive manufacturer of modular lavatory systems for Boeing’s 737 Next-Generation family of airplanes, as well as the 737 MAX which is expected to be introduced into service later this decade. The estimated value of the award is in excess of $800 million, exclusive of retrofit orders, which are expected to be substantial.

"The B/E Aerospace modular lavatory system (MLS) utilizes B/E Aerospace, patent pending, Spacewall® technology, which frees up floor space in the cabin, creating the opportunity to add up to six incremental passenger seats on each airplane."

source: http://pin-pointsolutions.com/be-aerospace-newsletter/

This same information is everywhere on the internet. But nowhere can I find how this technology will actually allow for more passenger seats. Does anyone have more info?


User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15729 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 6):
someone explain to me how they found room for 4 seats when it is 3 per side... I assume this is a mix of F/Y addition?

A good point that I wondered about myself. An extra row of first class seats would equal 4 seats, but jeez, I don't see how Delta found that much extra space behind the sink! And what is this new design? A narrower space that extends farther back?

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):
Will passengers feel the squeeze in what already constitutes tight quarters for all but the smallest passengers? No, said Delta spokesman Morgan Durrant via e-mail,

Yes, says Delta. But what will passengers say? Look, I'm all for airlines right-sizing space in the economy section to match the low cost of a restricted coach ticket. When I can, I fly up front, but often the cost is simply prohibitive for me. My recent experience flying coach is that it is so uncomfortable that it becomes an ordeal.

Quoting CoachClass (Reply 10):
I suspect that in the future Delta will offer, in addition to the new smaller toilets, "comfort toilets" for a fee for those wishing a few extra inches in the loo in order to do luxury things like turn around or tie your shoelace.

Hah! Don't say that too loud, it could happen!


User currently offlineghifty From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 891 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 15404 times:

Quoting reality (Reply 22):
This same information is everywhere on the internet. But nowhere can I find how this technology will actually allow for more passenger seats. Does anyone have more info?

My sentiment is that the wall separating the interior of the lavatory to the main cabin must be thinner or something. Somehow that must free up enough space for one (?) more row of seats.



Fly Delta Jets
25 FlyHossD : Can you explain how your comment is relevant to this thread? I don't see the connection.
26 tommy767 : You wouldn't have to shrink a lav on a 757. The 739 is so finicky that they have to reduce lav space for only FOUR extra seats? Sounds like cramming
27 FlyHossD : In my opinion, you didn't answer my question. Granted a 737-900 cabin isn't a long as a 757-200, but so what? Neither is a 737-800 or an A320. Why do
28 Flighty : Four extra jet seats across a fleet in the USA (~200 total seats) flying 10 hours per day earns enough to pay a lot of workers. Even getting 8c RASM
29 homSar : I'm sure if there was a way to make a lav smaller on a 757 to fit in four extra seats, they'd do it.
30 Schweigend : It's very hard to tell what it could mean, without a plan or specs to look at. "Modular"?? We all know the floor plan of a lavatory is usually a toil
31 ikramerica : I could see that, where the sink projects into the space where an aisle seat might be, but the "dead corner" that currently exists next to the sink a
32 Post contains links and images planemaker : I haven't heard that in a very long time.... View Large View MediumPhoto © Lyndon Thorley
33 Post contains images NWAROOSTER : Looks to me like Delta may find themselves with a law suit claiming discrimination about very large passengers not being able to fit into the lav and
34 777fan : I just flew aboard my first (UA) 739 (BWI-DEN) and couldn't help but notice the mid-cabin lav is insanely narrow even by airline standards - how do th
35 questions : They could probably make a lot of money with that offering!
36 questions : Per the article in OP, "Neither the company nor Delta responded to inquiries as to how the dimensions would compare to a typical 3 x 3-foot coach lava
37 questions : Simple. It's the new AirLavBidet. Passenger will walk into a narrow, closet-like lav... lock the door... put on an oxygen mask... roll down the aircr
38 Post contains images lightsaber : Or that. People get what they pay for. Unfortunately. (I'm a cheap bastard.) My understanding is access minimum width is the same. The best part, eve
39 strangr : It's pretty easy, before you get on your 1.5 hour flight, relax and visit the big restroom on the ground. I see no problem here at all.
40 SSTeve : If it's a 90 minute flight in the US, people just drive.
41 strangr : After my recent trip to the USA i noticed a few things that i think would do worlds for airlines and their profit. 1] remove carry on bins. If it don'
42 intermodal64 : I think it's just a curtain. Why use walls, anyway? They're too heavy, and they take up too much room.
43 ckfred : The article repeatedly says the coach lavatory. On a typical narrowbody (A320, 737NG, 757, MD-80), is the first class lav any bigger than the coach la
44 Post contains images DeltaMD90 : Lawsuit for what? Did you even read the article? I don't think many fat people will care that there is less space behind the sink
45 0NEWAIR0 : A 90 minute flight starts pushing the "just drive" limit a little. a 90 minute flight is at least a 7 hour car ride. Add 30 minutes to that flight ti
46 Post contains images akelley728 : THIS IS NOT DELTA'S DECISION!!! People will take any opportunity to bash an airline without getting all the facts straight. I personally think Delta
47 tommy767 : 739s actually are not the most capable on a transcon. They can and will divert during the winter if the headwinds are strong. They are better for mid
48 Post contains images mayor : You do realize that they are ALREADY turning a profit, correct? Since we're trying to save space, why not just wash your hands in the toilet??
49 max999 : I suspect you may change your mind when the vast majority of airlines in your country start to charge for check in baggage. Americans are just respon
50 bonusonus : Actually, innovations in aircraft interior designs do create and support jobs--for the engineers that design aircraft interiors. I should know, I'm o
51 AADC10 : Probably not. I sounds like they are shrinking the aft lavs but there is likely an ADA compliant lav in F.
52 FlyASAGuy2005 : Where are you getting your information from? Turn-time for our DC9s and 319s is 35 minutes. 40 minutes for 320s, 737s, MD88s and MD90s. 50 Minutes fo
53 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Ever heard of connecting? All those RJ's flying into the likes of ATL and DFW are coming from Birmingham, Alabama, not Birmingham, UK. I don't think
54 Post contains images mayor : Much like a fungus, no doubt....
55 Post contains images SSTeve : Guys, it was hyperbole responding to hyperbole, and we're talking 739s. Sheesh. Yes of course there are flights shorter than 90 minutes in the US, bu
56 B727FA : DL IFE is complimentary. Some items are ppv, but the basic stuff free.
57 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I guess it cancelled itself out when I read it. -Dave
58 1337Delta764 : On domestic flights, live TV and pre-recorded TV shows are free, while movies and games are paid. However, on international, Hawaii, Alaska, and Puer
59 Post contains images EA CO AS : ...you mean that law that doesn't apply to air carriers? I think you meant the Air Carrier Access Act.
60 MaverickM11 : They can do everything the 757s can do on the average transcon, but cheaper. In fact there are precious few places you need a 757 for performance--ev
61 Post contains images OB1504 : Airlines in the United States have had no choice but to embrace the à la carte model because passengers (especially with the recent economic downtur
62 777fan : $7.99 for any flight over two hours...a pittance on a four-hour flight, if you ask me. Consider that a beer or cocktail costs about the same but last
63 FlyASAGuy2005 : Not to mention the extra weight of the 57. She's pretty heavy compared to a 739 that will carry the same amount of people on the same exact missions
64 strangr : The vast majority of airlines in Australia do charge for luggage. Jetstar, Virgin, Tiger the only one that does not is Qantas. My point is that its c
65 catiii : If F is so cost prohibitive, there are any number of options in Y that are marginally more expensive for more legroom. In any event, I'm still waitin
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