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DL MD-88/90 Flightdeck Upgrade Official  
User currently offlineTrijetsRMissed From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2238 posts, RR: 7
Posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13808 times:

DL has officially announced plans for the MD-88/90 flightdeck upgrade. This confirms rumor and speculation, (you're welcome  ), and suggests that retirements, (even for the oldest MD-88s), are several years away.

Quote:
ATLANTA, April 3, 2013 /PRNewswire/ --Delta Air Lines (NYSE: DAL) will outfit its fleet of 182 MD-88 and MD-90 aircraft as well as several flight simulators with standardized, state-of-the-art glass cockpits and GPS navigation that will improve efficiency, reduce environmental impact and position the airline to take advantage of procedural improvements outlined in the Federal Aviation Administration's Next Generation Air Transportation System.
Quote:
Installation of the enhanced flight deck technology across the MD-88 and MD-90 fleet is slated to begin in early 2014 and will be completed by IS&S technicians at Delta TechOps facilities. The process is expected to take approximately two years.
http://m.prnewswire.com/news-release...-management-systems-201297341.html

What is interesting is how the time-frame has been stretched to two full years. At one point, the idea of completing them within eight months was bounced around. IMO, this leads me to believe that the total number of modified aircraft will surpass the current fleet of 182.


There's nothing quite like a tri-jet.
37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDTWPurserBoy From United States of America, joined Feb 2010, 1260 posts, RR: 6
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13676 times:

Wonder if this means they want the Saudi MD-90's?


Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13585 times:

This was on the FlightOps code-a-phone a few weeks back too:

"Next, I want to touch on big news for the MD88/90 fleet. This week, we finalized the paperwork to begin the cockpit refresh of that fleet, allowing Delta to continue using these fuel-efficient aircraft well into the next decade. The upgrade will include dual FMS, dual GPS and flat panel displays as well as greatly enhanced nav database capacity. Modified aircraft will be able to fly curved RNAV RNP approaches and will have full datalink capability that includes the flight plan, performance and Takeoff Data Uplinks. Additionally, virtually all NextGen capabilities will be supported with this upgraded technology. The installation is scheduled to begin in 2014 with all aircraft modified by the end of 2015."


User currently offlineCoronado From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 1126 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13586 times:
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How different will the 717's be or are they aiming for one type rating, as when NW DC9-10 thru 50 series covered about a 40 seat range?


The Original Coronado: First CV jet flights RG CV 990 July 1965; DL CV 880 July 1965; Spantax CV990 Feb 1973
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2882 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13410 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):
Additionally, virtually all NextGen capabilities will be supported with this upgraded technology.

Does that mean they'll have ADS-B-in capability and display ADS-B traffic with directionality and Flight ID on the Navigation Display?


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5638 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13351 times:

Pictures! I need pictures!!

User currently offlinecatiii From United States of America, joined Mar 2008, 2802 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13350 times:

Quoting Coronado (Reply 3):
How different will the 717's be or are they aiming for one type rating, as when NW DC9-10 thru 50 series covered about a 40 seat range?

Good question. I'd be itnerested to know if the upgrades give the cockpit all the avionics of the 717, but none of the systems automation.


User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 13277 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
Pictures! I need pictures!!

Here you go


http://www.innovative-ss.com/platfor...asp?ID=73&L1=2&L2=4&L3=0&display=1


User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8093 posts, RR: 24
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13192 times:

Quoting dtw9 (Reply 7):
Here you go

Weird! I was expecting something more 717-esque.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13062 times:

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 4):
Does that mean they'll have ADS-B-in capability and display ADS-B traffic with directionality and Flight ID on the Navigation Display?

Yep.

Quote:
new equipment will align the MD-88/-90 fleet with the rest of Delta’s fleet and provide a more standardized cockpit while incorporating functions such as ADS-B and Data Link.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13026 times:
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Does anybody know at the dollar amount per aircraft this is going to cost DL?

User currently offlineahdharia From United States of America, joined May 2004, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12867 times:
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I was under the impression that MD-88's and MD-90's already had glass cockpit? I thought that was another major difference between those and the DC-9 series aircraft.

"MD-88’s began arriving at Delta with Ship 909 (N909DL) in December 1987. Delta placed its first MD-88 into service on January 5, 1988. As compared to the early MD-82’s, the MD-88 had an updated “glass cockpit” with digital displays powered by cathode ray tubes (CRTs). This advanced avionics package eventually allowed Delta crews to shoot Category 3 instrument approaches."
Source: http://blog.delta.com/2012/04/30/25-years-of-maddogs/

Now I know these will be more modernized supporting GPS/new FMS/ADS-B. Just reading the article, to me it implies that they are just now getting glass instead of the glass cockpits being upgraded.


User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12834 times:

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 10):
Does anybody know at the dollar amount per aircraft this is going to cost DL?

$300,000 per ship was the number kicked around a while ago


User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 628 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12743 times:

What's the ROI? Fuel savings? And maintenance savings?

User currently offlinedtw9 From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 1135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12724 times:

Quoting SSTeve (Reply 13):
What's the ROI? Fuel savings? And maintenance savings?

From the above posted link

Due to the lighter weight of the new equipment, Delta will see an immediate improvement in fuel economy while long-lasting benefits from the new flight decks include reductions in CO2 emissions by 80 million pounds annually and a 50 percent decrease in the aircraft noise footprint once NextGen procedures are fully implemented. The standardized flight decks will improve situational awareness for flight crews and are expected to increase operational flexibility, simplify maintenance and improve dispatch and on-time reliability.


User currently offlineMd88Captain From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 1329 posts, RR: 21
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12692 times:

The main driving factor is the database of the original FMS. It is small compared to the proliferation of SIDs, STARs, Charted Visuals, RNAVs, GPSs, LDA's, etc now required to loaded on every plane. I read somewhere that DFW ate up like 17% of the FMS memory. So, it's an operationally needed upgrade and a big improvement over the original equipment.

No the 88/90 will not be a common category with the 717.

[Edited 2013-04-03 15:22:02]

User currently offlineBoeing717200 From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 623 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12640 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):
This week, we finalized the paperwork to begin the cockpit refresh of that fleet, allowing Delta to continue using these fuel-efficient aircraft well into the next decade.


Discussing the MD-80 and describing it as fuel efficient in one sentence. That's some serious MD Kool-Aid right there.


User currently offlineDeltaB717 From Australia, joined Jun 2012, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12561 times:
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Quoting N766UA (Reply 8):
Weird! I was expecting something more 717-esque.

Yeah I'm with you... I read the press release in my email this morning (Aussie time) and my immediate thought was 717... apparently not!!


User currently offlinePIEAvantiP180 From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 522 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12406 times:
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Quoting dtw9 (Reply 14):

But none of that spells out what the actual % of fuel a given flight might save. My own guess is that it has to be no less then 2.5-4% on the high side in order for this 300K mod to have any kind of ROI.We know a winglet mod runs about 500K for a 3-5% fuel saving per flight.


User currently offlineUA735WL From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 145 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 12349 times:

Quoting Boeing717200 (Reply 16):

What, you think DL is going to cultivate the idea that its aircraft are INefficient?


Besides, the Maddog is efficient... if you compare it to say, a 707...  Big grin

[Edited 2013-04-03 16:41:36]


A or B? I'll stick with MD...
User currently offlineSSTeve From United States of America, joined Dec 2011, 628 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12268 times:

Quoting PIEAvantiP180 (Reply 18):
But none of that spells out what the actual % of fuel a given flight might save. My own guess is that it has to be no less then 2.5-4% on the high side in order for this 300K mod to have any kind of ROI.We know a winglet mod runs about 500K for a 3-5% fuel saving per flight.

Because I just learned it through Google, I'm clearly now an expert, but it's not just the weight savings, but RNAV as referred to in the Delta press release:
http://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsid=8768


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6386 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 12256 times:

Quoting ahdharia (Reply 11):
I was under the impression that MD-88's and MD-90's already had glass cockpit? I thought that was another major difference between those and the DC-9 series aircraft.

"MD-88’s began arriving at Delta with Ship 909 (N909DL) in December 1987. Delta placed its first MD-88 into service on January 5, 1988. As compared to the early MD-82’s, the MD-88 had an updated “glass cockpit” with digital displays powered by cathode ray tubes (CRTs). This advanced avionics package eventually allowed Delta crews to shoot Category 3 instrument approaches."
Source: http://blog.delta.com/2012/04/30/25-years-of-maddogs/

Now I know these will be more modernized supporting GPS/new FMS/ADS-B. Just reading the article, to me it implies that they are just now getting glass instead of the glass cockpits being upgraded.

The MD-88s and MD-90s as they are now have a partial glass cockpit, where there is a mix of CRTs and analog gauges. The new cockpits will be a full glass cockpit with LCDs.

EDIT: Here is what the cockpit currently looks like:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Ryan Richter - Rocky Mountain Aviation Photos



[Edited 2013-04-03 17:03:25]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2882 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12028 times:

Quoting UA735WL (Reply 19):
Besides, the Maddog is efficient... if you compare it to say, a 707... Big grin

Yep, PSA was one of the first airlines to phase out their 727s and go with MD-80s for better fuel efficiencies back around 1984. At the time, the MD-80 was state of the art in fuel efficiency.


User currently offlineN243NW From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1609 posts, RR: 20
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 11923 times:

Quoting catiii (Reply 2):
The upgrade will include dual FMS, dual GPS and flat panel displays as well as greatly enhanced nav database capacity. Modified aircraft will be able to fly curved RNAV RNP approaches and will have full datalink capability that includes the flight plan, performance and Takeoff Data Uplinks. Additionally, virtually all NextGen capabilities will be supported with this upgraded technology.

Very nice. This looks to be very similar to what AA's been doing with the 757s and 767s. AA uses IS&S displays too. I wonder if DL will also go with Honeywell's Pegasus as the FMS of choice...




B-52s don't take off. They scare the ground away.
User currently offlinecosyr From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 334 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 11502 times:

i know the MD-88's are the newest varient of the MD-80's, but what makes them so much better for Delta, than the MD-82/83's that AA and everyone else deemed too fuel inefficient? Those JD9's are still based on 20 years older engine technology than the IAE's.

25 PSU.DTW.SCE : The ROI for this project involves many different aspects than winglet mods. The benefits of the winglet mods are almost entirely attributed to reduce
26 xjet : I'm pretty sure the 717 is a DC-9 type rating. Just differences training required. Similar to 737-3/4/500 being the same as 737NG. But I could be wro
27 lucky777 : It's definitely going against the grain as it relates to Delta's 2 main competitors, UA/AA. Within 3-5 years Delta will be the sole legacy carrier wi
28 wjcandee : ABX Air was one of IS&S's first customers for their glass panel upgrade, which ABX put on its 767-200s. It took a while for the IS&S solution
29 Prost : Well, AA & UA will be carrying financing costs on their new fleet as well, and that cost won't be insignificant. DL seems to have a philosophy of
30 TSS : I'll buy the other listed benefits, but if the reduction in weight with the upgrade was enough to measurably affect fuel burn wouldn't that also nega
31 TheRedBaron : That made me laugh. since I was thinking along the same lines....Mad Dogs efficient? I guess Delta with that huge fleet will re-engine them with next
32 Max Q : By any measure DAL has it right, they are investing 50 % less than UA in new Aircraft over the next decade or so while far out performing UA in profi
33 PSU.DTW.SCE : Whatever weight reduction is likely minimal, atune to removing extra catering carts or magazines.
34 FlyASAGuy2005 : I would say it'll be pretty negligible. At least when it counts (when there are people on board). The 88s/90s are inherently nose heavy with pax onbo
35 Logos : Exactly. A lot of factors go into operating cost, fuel being only one of them. Delta has done very well on those other factors (most notably acquisit
36 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : For DL,there will be many comparisons to AA and UA's fleet strategy - both on the net and in the media. But the reality is, for AA and UA's strategy
37 Post contains images TrijetsRMissed : Thanks for the laugh. But you'd be surprised - given the probable longevity. Let's say DL outfit the youngest frames with the Super 98 package.... If
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