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IAG Order 18 More 787 For BA  
User currently offlineseansasLCY From Hong Kong, joined Mar 2007, 853 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 21309 times:

IAG have apparently converted 18 options to orders for the 787 for BA.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...s-iag-boeing-idUSBRE9320YD20130403

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 21326 times:
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As usual, this article is a mess. Replacing 747s with 787s? I also doubt IB would be taking in an order of 748s given the Airbus order just announced.

Hopefully we'll get a release from BA or a more knowledgeable wire service about this order.


User currently offlinen1786b From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 559 posts, RR: 17
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20791 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
I also doubt IB would be taking in an order of 748s given the Airbus order just announced.

They announced an order? Where? Oh, the press article where they were reported to be in talks for the A350?. Fair enough, there is no smoke without fire. But here on a.net, we love to split hairs  


User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2782 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20611 times:
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Interesting news from BA. I would have thought orders would hold off until everything has settled with the dreamliners.

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 1):
Replacing 747s with 787s?

I have to admit I found it a little odd as well. Jon Ostrower from the WSJ did say the same thing though. Maybe they think they can right size some routes this way.
Pat



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User currently offlineabba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1334 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20533 times:

Quoting jetblueguy22 (Reply 3):
Maybe they think they can right size some routes this way.

That is also how I read it. Its the only way it makes sense.


User currently offlineAtlflyer From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 736 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20545 times:

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...787-order-with-iberia-set-for-more

With a quote from Willie Walsh, this seems legit... Congrats to BA and Boeing.


User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20418 times:
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I would expect they would be flexible on subtype in the contract language. Given they are stated to replace the 744s, they would likely be the -1000 type when it's finally offered.

User currently offlineblrsea From India, joined May 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20382 times:

Quoting seansasLCY (Thread starter):
IAG have apparently converted 18 options to orders for the 787 for BA.

Were the options initially for 788 or 789?


User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 19080 times:
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Quoting blrsea (Reply 7):
Were the options initially for 788 or 789?

Options don't normally lock in a sub type. They should be read as flexible and convertible to slots for production of the -8, -9, or -10 once offered.


User currently offlineely747 From Slovakia, joined Jan 2013, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 18078 times:

Would that mean that BA is planning to start some obvious destinations on US East Coast out of MAN or BHX ? 787 seems to be the right fit for such city pairs, in addition this would free up some slots at T5?

User currently offlinewaly777 From United Kingdom, joined Oct 2012, 332 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 18030 times:

Quoting ely747 (Reply 9):
Would that mean that BA is planning to start some obvious destinations on US East Coast out of MAN or BHX ? 787 seems to be the right fit for such city pairs, in addition this would free up some slots at T5?

Those are very unlikely for the foreseeable future, they have quite a few 767 and 777 aircraft to replace in the coming years.



The test of first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold 2 opposed ideas in the mind concurrently, and still function
User currently offlineely747 From Slovakia, joined Jan 2013, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17902 times:

Quoting waly777 (Reply 10):

Why is BA so Heathrow centric actually?


User currently offlineedina From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 743 posts, RR: 9
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17794 times:

Quoting ely747 (Reply 11):

Little or no premium traffic from anywhere else....



Worked on - Caravelle Mercure A300 A320 F27 SD3-60 BAe146 747-100/200/400 DC10-30 767 777 737-400 757 A319 A321
User currently offlineely747 From Slovakia, joined Jan 2013, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17632 times:

Quoting edina (Reply 12):

If my memory serves me well VS were able to fill up a 747 on MAN-LAS though it was leasure market for the most part, but then again CO, AA or US seem to be doing quite well and are confortable at MAN.


User currently offlineSonomaFlyer From United States of America, joined Apr 2010, 1762 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17599 times:
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Quoting edina (Reply 12):
Little or no premium traffic from anywhere else....

EK has done well at airports other than LHR. BA's focus is LHR with connecting traffic. Its unlikely they'll take the chance on P2P flights such as to MAN to North America.


User currently offlineely747 From Slovakia, joined Jan 2013, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17499 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 14):

Sorry wrong topic

[Edited 2013-04-03 17:26:23]

User currently offlineKaiTak747 From Switzerland, joined Aug 2012, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17502 times:

Quoting ely747 (Reply 9):
Would that mean that BA is planning to start some obvious destinations on US East Coast out of MAN or BHX ? 787 seems to be the right fit for such city pairs, in addition this would free up some slots at T5?

UA and AA fly to these destinations using 757s. These are the perfect size aircraft for these small long haul markets.
And as others have stated, some of the 767s are over 20 years old and are in need of replacement.


User currently offlineely747 From Slovakia, joined Jan 2013, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17326 times:

Quoting KaiTak747 (Reply 16):

I think the market is there even for 3 class 763 (club world, world traveller + and world traveller) but aircraft rotation / utilization could become problematic and not efficient respectivelly, adding extra costs to move labor out of its LHR base. Just my thought.


User currently offlineQFVHOQA From Australia, joined Mar 2012, 437 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 17321 times:

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 14):
EK has done well at airports other than LHR. BA's focus is LHR with connecting traffic. Its unlikely they'll take the chance on P2P flights such as to MAN to North America.

A few other airlines can do well with flights to airports outside London - KL serves more British airports than BA.

But for BA, with their TATL partner AA they can leave these routes to be served by AA instead and BA can use their aircraft for London routes. I don't see them venturing back to non-London flights.


User currently offlineblue100 From United States of America, joined Mar 2012, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 17151 times:

Quoting ely747 (Reply 11):
Why is BA so Heathrow centric actually?
Quoting ely747 (Reply 13):
If my memory serves me well VS were able to fill up a 747 on MAN-LAS though it was leasure market for the most part, but then again CO, AA or US seem to be doing quite well and are confortable at MAN.

I have to be honest, I find this topic about BA being LHR-centric to be rather humorous every time it comes up. My question would be how is it any different than what most other airlines do?

With regards to the US airlines listed above, all are flying to their respective hubs (EWR, ORD, PHL etc.). Hub to spoke. In BA's case, LHR is the hub and MAN is the spoke. AF, KL, AZ, SQ, and yes, even EK (DXB) centralize their flights into their respective hubs. Point to point only really works well if there is a lot of O&D traffic or if you have a very low cost base. Even with a large amount of O&D, it may be too cost prohibitive to run outlying flights. That's why you see airlines try to build their hubs with the right mix of O&D and connecting traffic to fill the planes.

Just my   .

Anyway, back on topic, I certainly think that BA will be able to put these aircraft to good use if these options have in fact been picked up. Does anyone know if BA plans to replace the 777 fleet at LGW with 787's? If so, what variant would they likely use for these routes?

Cheers.


User currently offlineely747 From Slovakia, joined Jan 2013, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 16757 times:

Quoting blue100 (Reply 19):

It is slightly different since it is the fattest TATL route. Multiple hub system works fine for LH. If MAN manages to attract more direct services which will and not only to North America, then BA is going to lose out. Businesses need direct links. Surley one cannot ignore greater Manchester area.

[Edited 2013-04-03 18:39:15]

User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6882 posts, RR: 63
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16518 times:

Quoting Atlflyer (Reply 5):
Congrats to BA and Boeing.

And RR...  


User currently offlinelebb757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 9 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16477 times:

The 787 will work nicey for BA

User currently offlineplanesarecool From United Kingdom, joined Nov 2001, 4121 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16325 times:

Quoting ely747 (Reply 20):
Multiple hub system works fine for LH.

Ah that old chestnut of comparing the apple of the UK to the orange of Germany, a common favourite of the MAN fanboys in these monotonous threads. Do some research on the economics, geography, population distribution and inbound tourism of Germany compared to that of the UK and you may realise why they have more success at a 'multiple hub system' than BA or in fact any other airline in Europe.

I'll help you out, answer these four questions...

Where is the most densely populated region of Germany? And the UK?
Where is the financial centre of Germany? And the UK?
Where is the most visited region of Germany for international visitors? And the UK?
What is the most visited city of Germany? And the UK?


User currently offlinecol From Malaysia, joined Nov 2003, 2104 posts, RR: 22
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 16162 times:

I too do not get the BA and MAN push. It failed before and was not good for MAN anyway. The 1-11's have gone!! BA and OW are shrinking at MAN. MAN's future is much brighter without BA, and BA future is much brighter without MAN.

25 kaitak : Since this hasn't officially been launched, these orders can't be for the -10 model. I'm guessing these are for -9s exclusively. That brings BA's 787
26 SonomaFlyer : Unless BA is terrible at negotiating, they will have flexibility to change the sub type up to a certain point before scheduled delivery for a certain
27 eljas : ...and BA serve more airports in the Netherlands (excluding Netherlands Antilles) than KL. That's how hub and spoke works. I'm surprised that BA want
28 LJ : Not entirely correct if you count KLs codeshare on AFs RTM-LCY as a KL flight.
29 Post contains images frigatebird : This is a big boost for Boeing, after reports BA is set to order a huge number of A350s (favouring it over the 777X). It will take the number of 787s
30 PM : To be honest, I'm guessing that's partly what the A350-1000s will be for.
31 frigatebird : Oh, on those routes TA routes that require a bit more capacity than the 787-10, for sure. But I would say the A350-1000 would be best on longer route
32 AirbusA6 : Fascinating timing, with Boeing desperate for some positive PR for the stricken programme, I imagine BA got a very nice deal!
33 waly777 : Lol talk about being melodramatic. No, it had absolutely nothing to do with that BA is making decisions on long haul fleet replacements...oh no, the
34 Lofty : It is a B747 replacment "International Airlines Group (IAG) has reached agreement with Boeing for new long-haul aircraft to replace the older Boeing 7
35 VV701 : From the IAG web site: "International Airlines Group (IAG) has reached agreement with Boeing for new longhaul aircraft for the group's fleet. "IAG pla
36 GCPET : Not surprised by the order and it's good to see BA renewing the Long-Haul fleet further. GCPET
37 airbazar : It does make some sense for BA who have a very large LHR-US/CAN network of p2p routes. 747's are simply too big in this day and age of JV's and high
38 r2rho : Should we interpret from this that 787's for IB are basically a given (sounds almost like an LOI). If so, this comes as a surprise as many were expec
39 SonomaFlyer : For IB, I think we'll see the 359 or 351 for larger routes and the 788 for smaller ones. This will bring IB down to two a/c types for long haul routes
40 Stitch : I'm guessing IB is not having problems filling their A340-300s, since they're taking delivery of A330-300s and not A330-200s, so I would think the 787
41 LHRFlyer : BA had 28 options for the 787, so it's possible that the 10 remaining options have been novated to Iberia.
42 frigatebird : The Businessweek article states "IAG said it has also secured an unspecified number of additional delivery slots for future Iberia needs", so I guess
43 lebb757 : If IB actually order he 787, it would allow fleet commonality within IAG. BA should definetely start looking at the 7810. It is simply the right airpl
44 SEPilot : Considering the fact that when the 744 came out it was the only plane with the range it had, it stands to reason that airlines that did a lot of long
45 behramjee : Dont know why people keep on saying this without knowing the actual facts especially for a market like MANCHESTER where EK and EY in particular have
46 Hamlet69 : Actually, that was Airbus. Though to my knowledge, Boeing never disputed the statement. I'll have to look up my old collection of AW&ST's, but I
47 kaitak : Very interesting figures, but where is AUH on this list?
48 peterinlisbon : I think the reason that it makes sense for KLM to fly to more British airports than BA is that it makes more sense to fly to Amsterdam from places lik
49 behramjee : both DOH and AUH J class travel to MAN was less than 3,000 hence did not fall in the top 20 medium/long haul market segments
50 theginge : There obviously is a premium market but for HKG, thats about 30 a day, not enough for a direct service?? Especially as some of it may well already go
51 Post contains images ScottB : And IMO BA can likely make more money with premium-heavy 787 configurations than they can by trying to sell a bunch of deeply-discounted World Travel
52 Post contains images astuteman : And I find it laughable that we actually believe that airlines would really buy the most expensive frame around, seating 400 people, just so they cou
53 r2rho : Yes and no. On their current route network, I agree. But IMO IB is missing out on opportunities in thinner LatAm secondary markets due to not having
54 JerseyFlyer : Interesting this from IAG's website refers to RR power for BA, not for IAG. This does leave the door open to GE power for IB.
55 GCPET : I think they'll probably have RR's as BA will have them on their's which will cut maintenance costs I'd assume. GCPET
56 jfk777 : The reason for some IB 787-8 could be to fly to cities that are too small for A340 or A333, many Central American cities, San Juan, and Santo Domingo
57 LHRFlyer : But would Boeing be prepared to guarantee delivery slots without an actual order for an aircraft?
58 VV701 : The original order announced on 27 September 2007 and placed in the Boeing Order Book on 24 December 2007 was for six 787 8s that were then scheduled
59 jumpjets : Indeed the new IB A333s which were ordered after the BA/IB combination have GE engines rather than the RR Trent that would have given some commonalit
60 theginge : I would imagine they would for a major airline group like IAG, just as they would for say Emirates for example...
61 sunrisevalley : For Rolls Royce you could read General Electric. The point is that I do not see advantages in being exclusive with one engine over another just for t
62 jumpjets : I seem to recall that when BA originally placed their first order for 787s there was some commentary about how they had got relatively early delivery
63 Stitch : They did so with AA. AA signed an MoU that required their pilot's union ratifying their contract before AA would firm the order. It is believed that
64 Post contains links LHRFlyer : Interesting. I assumed BA had 28 options as that was what was quoted in the fleet table towards the end of the last annual BA report. Either way, it'
65 sweair : I think there will be versions of the 787 that can do hot and high, a 788 with 789 engines and mtow etc?
66 VV701 : Note the last paragraph from this extract of the IAG Press Release. So they are saying is a done deal and includes the Trent 1000 and the RR support
67 bluesky73 : It can't be too long before we see G-ZBJA in BA colours and with the timing I'm sure BA will do some publicity shots with its two new birds joining th
68 rutankrd : Are you prepared to pay for the performance hit ?
69 Post contains images bluesky73 : Does anyone know how much painting the engines blue/red etc will cost efficiency? I don't want this topic going off course but good to know. I'll chip
70 Post contains images VV701 : If they were painted white it would by no means be a first. All high winged aircraft in BA livery excepting only the DO 328s of Sun-Air have been pai
71 Post contains links VV701 : Somebody somewhere is expecting the engines on BA's 767s to be painted white: http://www.airbank-travel.com/airfar.../bites/ba-upgrades-jfk-terminal-
72 SEPilot : If they can make money it doesn't matter whether or not they can fill the thing. If the fares are high enough to cover the costs with the plane only
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