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Cyprus Airways: Investor Or Close Down  
User currently offlineVCy From Cyprus, joined Dec 2012, 241 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 12 months 18 hours ago) and read 15560 times:

http://www.sigmalive.com/inbusiness/news/business/38707 sorry the article is in Greek. one of the important fact that its states is that there is interest for the airline from the Middle East and China as well.
Also, yesterday it was reported that there was 3 other scenarios. One was to close it down immediately, the other one was to help it survive for the summer season and the last one was to reduce the aircraft to 6 and sack reduce its staff.
What are your thoughts?

253 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineVCy From Cyprus, joined Dec 2012, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 12 months 14 hours ago) and read 15204 times:

According to the latest information the airline is very close to being sold, with the possibility of signatures by tomorrow.

User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 3114 posts, RR: 6
Reply 2, posted (1 year 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 15188 times:

Quoting VCy (Reply 1):

Did they say who they are being sold to? Or at least who are the interested parties.

User currently offlineVCy From Cyprus, joined Dec 2012, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 15112 times:

Its a chinese company that s in the airline industry according to the latest information. They have been negotiating for the past 15 days apparently. Will upload the link soon, but its in Greek.

User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 3114 posts, RR: 6
Reply 4, posted (1 year 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 15055 times:

Quoting VCy (Reply 3):

Great, I guess the Russians are out of Cyprus but the Chinese will step right in to take over. :P

When you have the link please upload it  

User currently offlinekonrad From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 545 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 12 months 13 hours ago) and read 15024 times:

Quoting VCy (Reply 3):
Its a chinese company that s in the airline industry according to the latest information. They have been negotiating for the past 15 days apparently. Will upload the link soon, but its in Greek.

As Cyprus Airways are an EU airline there is a limit of less than 50% on non-EU ownership.

User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 3114 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (1 year 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 14911 times:

Quoting konrad (Reply 5):

The government of Cyprus owns 69.2% of the airline, so even if they sell 49% to the Chinese they will have 20% stake in the airline. I doubt they would make the life of the Chinese difficult. I am sure they would provide them with the necessary majority when needed.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27785 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (1 year 12 months 12 hours ago) and read 14866 times:

We should know the answer tomorrow. The Chinese investors are the only ones who seriously seem interested and they are chewing over the deal apparently and are to come back to CY management with their final decision by tomorrow latest.

Basically if the Chinese are not interested then its curtains for CY unless another last minute buyer shows up.

User currently offlineCYatUK From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 14849 times:

Quoting JU068 (Reply 6):
The government of Cyprus owns 69.2% of the airline, so even if they sell 49% to the Chinese they will have 20% stake in the airline. I doubt they would make the life of the Chinese difficult. I am sure they would provide them with the necessary majority when needed.

I think that the above has changed after the last issue of rights when the Government exercised (proportionally) more rights than the private sector owners who owned the remaining 30.8%.

In any case, I think that a split of 50% - 1 share for the Chinese Investor, 20-25% for the Government and a 25-30% for the remaining/existing private investors could be beneficial for the airline.

If a deal is to go ahead, a LOI will be signed during the weekend.

User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1733 posts, RR: 4
Reply 9, posted (1 year 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 14818 times:

Very interesting. I know that MEA was considering purchasing the airline last year but with the Cypriot economy as it is I think it would be a hefty burden for an airline the size of MEA.

I think the airline should close down and rebrand as a low cost airline- like the huge majority of airlines serving the island.

A few A320s for key European routes and then Dash8 Q400s for a regional operation which could include Athens, Istanbul, Cairo, Beirut, Amman which then feed into their daily A320 ops to Europe. I am rather impressed with Pegasus' Airlines operations in Istanbul.

In the summer months when their is an increase of traffic they could lease in additional A320s for the summer season only. That way they won't have such an overstocked fleet when the winter months come around

Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 3114 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (1 year 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 14813 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 9):

Hehe well, they will have to wait a bit until they can deploy their Dash-8 there  

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27785 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (1 year 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 14809 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 9):

LOL... I wonder if we will see MEA in TLV first or CY in IST    

User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1733 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 12 months 11 hours ago) and read 14757 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 11):
LOL... I wonder if we will see MEA in TLV first or CY in IST  

   Woops- probably won't happen then! I don't know why I said IST.. but any similar short haul route would suffice as a substitute to IST!

Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26687 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (1 year 12 months 9 hours ago) and read 14641 times:

No matter who opt to buy the ailing carrier, Cyprus Airways needs a major overhaul.

Business as usual clearly does not work, and the carriers needs a new business strategy to better align with the stark market realities of being based in an incredibly seasonal home market, and under constant competition from low cost competitors.

Frankly I doubt a minority owner (especially one without airline experience) will have much power to change things as long as the government is involved and unwilling to make the tough decisions including staff and cost cuts to allow the carrier a clean sheet of paper to work with.

[Edited 2013-04-05 09:08:47]

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 3114 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (1 year 12 months 8 hours ago) and read 14564 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):

The government is desperate enough and I am sure they will not pose any problems to the new owners. They are getting ready to introduce harsh measures in all government institutions so I am sure that Cyprus Airways is no different. Plus, the position of the government has been a clear one, people needed to be fired and contracts needed to be revised.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27785 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (1 year 12 months 8 hours ago) and read 14512 times:

I think they would have been better with a Gulf carrier who had the funds to inject into the project. Im sure the Chinese will have to get a very good deal to take CY and its issues.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27785 posts, RR: 59
Reply 16, posted (1 year 12 months 2 hours ago) and read 14244 times:

Latest updates of things being suggested are as follows :

50% of the workforce to be made redundant.

LHR route axed.

Only 5/6 aircraft to be retained.

Some A320's to be returned to lessor saving EUR1 Million a month on each frame.

Total cost savings of EUR30 Million.

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26687 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 13762 times:

Well selling the LHR slots should bring in some money.

Last month we saw Etihad purchase the 3 Jet Airways LHR slots for $70mil.

Suppose CY might get $40mil+ for their 2 daily pairs.

From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 3114 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 13546 times:

I just got an e-mail from them, they are removing the dedicated business class seats. Business class will be kept and the middle seat will be blocked.

It seems that they are expanding their cooperation with Alitalia as they will offer flights from Larnaca via Rome to Geneva, Madrid, Barcelona, Malta, Tunisia and Brussels.

If London Heathrow flights are to be suspended, does it mean their partnership with Virgin Atlantic is over?

[Edited 2013-04-05 23:43:53]

User currently offlineVCy From Cyprus, joined Dec 2012, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13475 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
Latest updates of things being suggested are as follows :

50% of the workforce to be made redundant.

LHR route axed.

Only 5/6 aircraft to be retained.

Some A320's to be returned to lessor saving EUR1 Million a month on each frame.

Total cost savings of EUR30 Million.

i think this is the plan if the deal with the Chinese company fails. it would be a real shame if LHR is axed  

User currently offlineDutchBoeing From Netherlands, joined Apr 2010, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13416 times:

I understand they need cash now, but is it wise on the long run to sell the LHR-slots? I suspect (don't know, just a hunch) that LHR is one of the few routes they actually make money on. LCA-LHR must be pretty big or is there too much competition on LON-LCA from lcc's? Then it is the last route to axe I would say. But I understand they need to do something... Would they leave LON altogether or just switch to i.e. STN?

On a side note: I really hope they will keep the dedicated business class seating. One of the few airlines in EU that still has those. Would be a shame if another carrier gets rid of proper C-class seating. Apparently there really is no market for them in EU anymore. That only leaves RO, JU and SU? If you can count SU as EU of course and I believe JU is also getting rid of them with their new interiors. Any other ones still have them?

User currently offlineVCy From Cyprus, joined Dec 2012, 241 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 13408 times:

Quoting DutchBoeing (Reply 20):
I suspect (don't know, just a hunch) that LHR is one of the few routes they actually make money on. LCA-LHR must be pretty big or is there too much competition on LON-LCA from lcc's?

The LON-LCA market is huge and CY has recently entered an agreement with VS to transit passengers to the USA through LHR. I have never flown on a CY flight to LHR without the flight being close to full, therefore i have no idea why they would do that. There is alot of competition by lccs, such as Easyjet & Monarch but no one can use them to transit, and Cypriots seem to prefer LHR. I would believe they would be better off giving up their Rome slots and let A3 pick up the route. And for sure the Frankfurt and Munich as i don't see the market being that big and the capability of CY to compete with LH. I think another good move would be to give their CDG route to AF & AMS to KLM. However, not everything should happen, cause if it did then CY would be left only with its Greece routes  

[Edited 2013-04-06 00:22:36]

User currently offlineJU068 From Vanuatu, joined Aug 2009, 3114 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13375 times:

Quoting DutchBoeing (Reply 20):

Jat has a mix of them but some of the recently refurbished aircraft lost their dedicated business class seating. They have the demand on some routes, so I think that in the long run only a few aircraft will keep it.

I doubt Cyprus Airways would leave London as the market is massive. However I do not know how wise it would be to move to Gatwick with easyJet and Aegean already competing on this market. I guess we will have to wait and see, but my guess is that London Heathrow is here to stay.

Quoting VCy (Reply 21):

If I remember correctly Rome is quite cheap as an airport to fly into, at least cheaper than some other European airports. Maybe that is one of the reasons why Cyprus Airways sought to establish this partnership with Alitalia. In addition to this, there is a market between Larnaca and Rome, Cyprus Airways sells most of its seats to Italian tourist agencies. This is why one of Ryanair's first destinations out of Larnaca was Bologna, a lot of people used this flight to visit Rome.
Mind you, Cyprus Airways has been sending their A321 to Frankfurt a few times, so the market is there. Unfortunately for Cyprus Airways most of those passengers are low-yielding tourists coming to sun tan on the Cypriot beaches.
I flew at least 8 times on Cyprus Airways from Larnaca to Amsterdam and most of those flights used to be the horrible ones that would stop in Paphos. In Larnaca we would be around 10 to 20 passengers while the flight out of Paphos would leave completely full, mostly with elderly Dutch people. I do not know what impact the removal of Paphos from their network had on their loads but I hope their flights are carrying more passengers than those times I flew on them out of Larnaca.

CY's primary problem is its cost structure. Only by fixing it they can actually make a profit by flying tourists in and out of Cyprus.

User currently offlineDutchBoeing From Netherlands, joined Apr 2010, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13345 times:

Quoting VCy (Reply 21):
However, not everything should happen, cause if it did then CY would be left only with its Greece routes  

That would have an 'OA-scenario-reek" to it... (OA recently having axed all A320's and being an all prop-airline now, what a shame).

What tough decisions to make now, esp. with the local economy to be spiralling down. One of the scenario's to save CY is for it to be bought by another airline (or investment group), as has been mentioned above. What can it offer other airlines? What can CY cash in on? There is so much competition in the region. Additionally, CY's network isn't very strong and frequencies on all routes are relatively low (most 1 x daily). I also don't think they have a very strong brand recognition in the North of EU. It is not an airline which comes to mind to most people when they need to go to AMM/CAI/BEY/etc. I would say. They lack the exposure of an alliance and they lack being part of a large FF-program like FB or M&M. Perhaps joining one of those would suddenly persuade more people to notice and use them? I know it is silly, but... it's nowadays not always the best (i.e. fares, service, routes) airlines that win, it usually is the one with the best / strongest FF-program. Look at all major airlines in the world compared to the boutique ones. It is the large bland ones what seem to win. So their loyality base doesn't seem very large. Locally it probably is, but the way the local economy is going... So why would anybody want to invest in CY? What can be the benefit in the long run?

User currently offlineDutchBoeing From Netherlands, joined Apr 2010, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 11 months 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 13342 times:

Cyprus Airways and Alitalia together, now that sounds like a winning team... The blind leading the deaf!   (sorry...)

[Edited 2013-04-06 01:00:37]

25 JU068 : Personally I always thought that Cyprus Airways is beyond salvation and I do not know why the Chinese want to invest. Naturally, I would be happy if
26 Post contains images VCy : My guess is that they see that in the long run they will benefit from its location. Its located between Europe, Asia and Africa. I know that every si
27 OA260 : Yes so it looks like its a definate source of cash. Shame all the same to have to sell off the Family silver. I would expect CY to keep some sort of
28 GCT64 : I very much doubt that CY can compete on LON-LCA/PFO route against BA for the high end (efficiently run, FF program, economies of scale etc.) or EZY/
29 OA260 : A3 would be mad to take on CY . With the issues that CY have with regards pay/unions it would be a disaster even if A3 were given it for free. Your r
30 Post contains links VCy : www.sigmalive.com/news/local/38934 according to the article (in greek), the government is trying to connect the island with flights to China and also
31 OA260 : But would taking over CY enable them to make a go of it? I think they would need to create a new ULCC model and choose their routes carefully. DUB us
32 Post contains images VCy : i didnt mean take over the airline just take over some routes as A3. And obviously that will mean some CY employees will be able to find a job with A
33 OA260 : Yes that might be possible. I do fear though that alot of the former CY employee's would be shed as after a 50% cull it still leaves way too many. Al
34 VCy : A good thing is that CY's pilots are trained on A320s and A321s as well so that will make it easier i guess. But yes, its fair to say that even at su
35 JU068 : There is a reason why no one is rushing to established direct links between Cyprus and Dublin. Last year the Irish tourists in Cyprus were the lowest
36 Post contains images VCy : woooow that's alot I'm just guessing that a direct flight will make it more preferable maybe? Its a different thing having a small amount of charter
37 OA260 : Yes it was similar with OA. Some pilots went from A3 to OA and now some have gone back and to other A320/321 operators.
38 LAXintl : LOL. That ship sailed long time ago. Trying to make LCA into a regional hub not only will take lots of time, its will take massive investment in buil
39 Post contains images VCy : Well, yes obviously it will take alot of time. I dont think anyone thinks LCA will be a massive hub by next year and by saying hub they dont mean hug
40 OA260 : It certainly would be ambitious and of course if there was a chance I wish them luck with it. They picked themselves up after 1974 and prospered agai
41 mercure1 : CY building a "mini" hub is hardly a positive business plan to follow and certainly not some that that can be done well on a small fleet. For a succes
42 JU068 : Turning Larnaca into a regional mini-hub could work but it would take a lot of time and planning. There are many things that would work in their favou
43 OA260 : For sure they would need feed into a mini hub so unless they can team up with someone else it would be very hard. The diaspora on Cyprus would not su
44 Tobias2702 : So, when do you expect the official announcement about the future of CY? Today (Sunday), tomorrow (Monday) or some time later? Being honest, I don't t
45 OA260 : Monday there is another meeting so more will come from that no doubt. The other thing is anyone taking over CY would also have to deal with a EU inve
46 Cassi : The appearance of mysterious, unheard of last-minute Chinese (or Russian, or Chinese-Russian) investors is usually the last stage before bankruptcy.
47 panais : This seems to be the only prescription offered by Germans to Cyprus lately.(Sorry, just couldn't resist, just look at the banking fiasco) This compan
48 Post contains images VCy : My thoughts exactly but tried not to turn it into a political discussion. Glad you pointed this out tho
49 mercure1 : The more I think about it, the more I realize place like Cyprus does not need an own airline. Being in EU it already has openskies, and it can adopt i
50 JU068 : Yes, we know you have come to realize that. You do not miss a chance to remind us of that. The thing is that Cyprus is an island and it has to have a
51 Post contains images VCy : Plus, i'd like to add that many Cypriots, despite their economic situation, including me and the majority of the people i know, would rather choose a
52 panais : The reality here is that the goverment turned CY into a costly enterprise. If it was private, it would have a good chance of surviving.
53 mercure1 : If you are afraid of Wizz or Ryanair then you continue subsidy, or give to other airlines for other routes. Be cheaper in long run. In Tahiti we unfor
54 Tobias2702 : Indeed, this is what I wanted to point out by stating that All these arguments calling for CY to take advantage of the country's geographical positio
55 SCQ83 : The FR/W6 thing is pure snobbism. Cyprus has a good number of holiday airlines (Thomas Cook, Monarch...), some flying year round to destinations popu
56 Post contains images VCy : I see what you mean but, talking from a local aviation enthusiast point of view, many will miss it. And i'm not referring just to the thousands of em
57 bennett123 : Problem is, that unless they can fill their planes, and do so at a profit, then they have little future.
58 JU068 : It is not snobbism at all. Cyprus has really bad experience with Ryanair so it is natural for everyone here to be reluctant to rely on them. As for W
59 Tobias2702 : Back to the current news: From what today's papers say, CY needs EUR 80 million to just survive through the summer season. The airline could only surv
60 JU068 : From what I know 1,200 is in total while 560 is the number that was supposed to stay after the staff reduction. From what I know there weren't any so
61 OA260 : Its actually nearer 1000 now with 50% ( 500 ) to be slashed in any restructuring bid. Another thing is that if CY were to close only 4 routes would b
62 JU068 : Exactly, as was the case with Milan.
63 aerokiwi : Agreed. I also note that you say that Cyprus (I'm assuming you mean the government) doesn't need to own an airline. That doesn't preclude a private c
64 OA260 : Seems there is a very strong chance that all CY flights will be suspended. The government says is cant assist even if the law allowed. Not looking goo
65 SCQ83 : I am just saying that whether CY goes bankrupt (hopefully not), Cyprus will not be at the mercy of Ryanair's wishes. There are a good share of airlin
66 Post contains links Tobias2702 : The corresponding news story: http://famagusta-gazette.com/breakin...ons-may-be-suspended-p18874-69.htm Is there any deadline by when a solution for
67 JU068 : Do you have any proof that Aegean's operations in Cyprus are loss making? The fact that they have added flights this summer proves otherwise. Ok, the
68 CYatUK : Despite Cyprus being a low yielding market (hopefully this will change in the next few years), I can still see space for a Cypriot airline operating
69 Tobias2702 : Just read on twitter that the CY booking engine does not seem to be working anymore.
70 CYatUK : I 've just tried booking a LCA-ATH return trip and the online system worked fine up to the card payment which (of course) I didn't do. In any case, m
71 aerokiwi : Apologies, I had thought you were referring to CY. Though the very presence of Aegean supports the idea that the market will provide just fine withou
72 JU068 : It makes me wonder if Cyprus Airways is shut down tomorrow, which I think it will (unfortunately), then it is likely that the airport will fire some p
73 OA260 : Well apparantly there are also 400,000 advance bookings so thats a large number and alot of those are over the peak Summer season.
74 EI564 : Cyprus Airlines failing would probably not be an absolute disaster for Cyprus (with the large exception of those working for the airline) but lets no
75 CYatUK : It will be for the employees of the airline and their families As far as scheduled (i.e. non low cost) airlines are considered, I can only see A3 str
76 Cyba : The one recent example is the failure of Malev. Within days Ryanair and Wizz announced increased or new services to many of the destinations that MA
77 OA260 : With A3 starting new routes from HER and SKG to TLV that could be a possibility even with a tag.
78 JU068 : Alitheia just reported that the government will not shut down the airline, at least not for the time being, but that they will implement the 6+1 deal.
79 CYatUK : The 6+1 scenario is to keep only the 6 leased A320s & the old owned A320 (as a spare) and get rid of all A319s and A321s (already happening). Thi
80 JU068 : Great, thanks for the clarification. I suppose they will get the salary reductions and a revised working schedule?
81 VCy : Any idea if the DOH route will start as said?
82 Post contains images VCy : Personally , i don't like this option but at least they will help the tourism this summer, so fair enough
83 Post contains links JU068 : From the Cyprus Mail article: 'The restructuring plan reportedly calls for a drastic downsizing: the fleet would be stripped down from 11 to 6 aircraf
84 OA260 : Nothing really more than we already knew . What they need to do is make a decision fast! May is coming and the tourist season with it. They need to ma
85 aerokiwi : It's the only alternative to the existing non-market solution - government run - which hasn't worked out so great. Afterall... Exactly. There will al
86 Tobias2702 : With the A319s leaving the fleet, which flights will be cut? Currently, they are rotated between ATH, LCA, HER, SKG and RHO. The A319s are quite heavi
87 DutchBoeing : Ok, well, good they might survive, albeit in a hugely slimmed form. Getting rid of the A319/A321's must also mean a slash in routes or at least freque
88 Post contains images CYatUK : I would expect that, if such scenario is realized, CY will try to keep routes like ATH, SKG, LHR, BEY and TLV and possibly AMS and FCO. I would also
89 JU068 : Well, I am sure they will close their base in Greece- that's for sure. I do not know how many aircraft are based over there. From Larnaca, Sofia might
90 JU068 : Hmm I would not bet my money on either Zurich or Frankfurt. Both of these routes see good loads as Cyprus is a popular destination among the Swiss an
91 OA260 : Cyprus Airways management might not have the luxury to pic and choose the routes! With the aircraft gone they are going to have to be very selective o
92 JU068 : Yes, but the thing is that the A321s and the A319s are leaving the fleet. So looking at their current summer timetable the following routes are opera
93 Tobias2702 : But then again, who says that the ATH network won't be kept, using the A320 instead of the A319, and other routes be cut? Don't forget that CY heavil
94 JU068 : Well, I do not know how they are performing in Greece but I heard rumours that they are not doing great. I guess we will just have to wait and see. I
95 OA260 : Indeed with this kind of restructuring absolutely nothing is off the table.
96 rutankrd : Think i said in the earlier 321 disposal thread to expect a minimum of one slot pair at LHR to disposed off and that's almost certainly the midday pai
97 JU068 : This will most likely stay as no one ever questioned it. Plus, I think even the European Union is not opposing it. Does anyone know how much money th
98 VCy : For sure! Always wondered why there were no direct flights with Spain until Ryan (and those flights were packed!) On another note, I think giving up
99 Post contains links OA260 : Protest marches by the staff of Cyprus Airways tomorrow ! I dont see what good that will do to be honest. They are going to demand that the government
100 Post contains images mercure1 : Yes there needs to be deep and painful cuts. Things like nostalgia and big dreams have not place at table now. See Reply 17 for idea. Use LGW, STN or
101 VCy : Heathrow is Heathrow though, their route is very well established here. Plus they have their agreement with VS!
102 rutankrd : Its not just the slot value and bums on seats through. Its utilisation the route (due to the turkish problem) ties up an aircraft (the size of an A32
103 mercure1 : Yes LHR is LHR, but there is a cost to do business there. You need high revenues to cover such premium airport. Cyprus more leisure or ethnic market m
104 TK105 : Is there any information available about number of passengers from south using Ercan for TK or H9? For what destinations and is this effecting CY?
105 OA260 : There are no doubt some who did but not a sizeable amount. In fact British and other Ex Pats have been flying back from LCA for years on the UK and G
106 Post contains links LAXintl : Yes Southern Cypriots do use at Ercan and its growing. Also growing number of charter flights to bring tourist to the island via Ercan. From a Souther
107 BasilFawlty : In my view they should keep the routes where they have code-share agreements and/or are the only operator. AMS, CDG, FCO, BEY, SVO, SOF, LHR (better s
108 OA260 : The thing that will most likely happen is a futher slump at LCA and PFO and an increase at ECN. With the new terminal and runway its supposed to at l
109 TK105 : Thanks. As they are planning a new parallel runway at ECN and new terminal building is already under construction with 20M passengers a year target i
110 BasilFawlty : Not going to happen, Northern Cyprus is and will not be recognised by other countries except Turkey, therefore you will only see Turkish operators in
111 OA260 : A long way away from that if ever. The target of 20M where did you get that figure and by what year are they saying they will get that figure? I read
112 rutankrd : Political statement its true however time is now right to recommence talks with view to federation. Like it or not Athens have dumped squarely on Nico
113 LAXintl : Yes ECN is getting another terminal and other facilities like new parking structure. New terminal will have - 8 jetways and capacity for 5mil annual e
114 OA260 : Thats a bit more like it . Yes I would think that more Gulf flights would be interested in future either on a schedule or charter basis. The requirem
115 Post contains images BasilFawlty : Which costs a lot of extra time and money, hence why almost all operators prefer LCA or PFO.
116 SCQ83 : Now Cyprus has three civilian airports (LCA, PFO on the Greek side and ECN on the Turkish) and there are talks about a 4th one?? For an island of its
117 JU068 : Common sense and market demands are fuelling these developments. Naturally they are there to serve the growing tourist market. Though I think that a
118 Post contains links and images TK105 : I remember reading it somewhere. Though not exactly the same content, here is what I found with a short google search: http://kokpit.aero/ercan-haval
119 JU068 : No one said it will. The south is willing to find a solution but not at all cost. Personally I can't wait for the two sides to find a solution as I a
120 LAXintl : The point is LCA and PFO hardly have a monopoly on activity on the Southern side. There is traffic bleed across to ECN. I recall last summer some UK t
121 rutankrd : The South are not The UN agreement had political acceptance in principle and voted for by the Northern ! For scuppering that agreement the EU awarded
122 OA260 : Well the practical idea would be to redevelop the old NIC airport and have a style like BSL with exits for the South and the North straddling the bor
123 JU068 : I think there are going to be problems from now on because the European Union is actually conducting an investigation since a lot of people flew into
124 rutankrd : Yes I know and in another place I would be happy to discuss it !
125 TK105 : I'm curious how this gonna work. Can you provide us more info about this investigation?
126 mercure1 : Ha yes, I forget yes people indeed access Southern Cyprus via Turkish side. Unless Cyprus want to close borders, I dont think they can stop their citi
127 LAXintl : So with a fleet of 6 aircraft the CY route map clearly shrinks. From what I can tell in GDS this is the weekly frequencies they intend to operate this
128 JU068 : Sure, the European Union found out that the Commission's office in Cyprus was bringing people to the south via the north. So they got angry and said
129 OA260 : Another opinion I read was that if they dont allow the merger then both carriers risk collapse and CYs demise could add to that arguement also. With
130 Post contains links EL-AL : The Israeli media already warns passengers not to buy Cyprus Airways tickets as the airline is about to collapse: http://www.mako.co.il/news-money/eco
131 CYatUK : Well, since the people of Cyprus have voted, everyone has to respect their decision. Its quite difficult to persuade me that people who have lost the
132 TK105 : Thanks. This is actually a bitter joke on its own proving how desperate and senseless are the policies of EU in all aspects of Cyprus Question. I won
133 CYatUK : It is an interesting point. If I am not mistaken, Louis Cruises have registered their ships elsewhere in order to be able to travel to Turkish ports.
134 CYatUK : I have just heard on the news that the Government have chosen the "6+1 scenario" which shrinks CY down to 6x A320s (+1 older A320 for backup) and to 5
135 JU068 : I guess we will see a revised summer schedule being released soon. Will be interesting to see which routes survive. Does anyone know the registration
136 rutankrd : 5B-DBB C/N 256 ! Classical muddling through by politicians ! Kicking the problem down the road again - In under 12 months we will be discussing the sa
137 Post contains links OA260 : News report here : Near-bankrupt Cyprus airways to keep flying – for now Near-bankrupt national carrier Cyprus Airways will be kept operational for
138 mercure1 : I somewhat wonder what point of China or Lebanon investors could be. With EU ownership limit, such investors cannot own majority of CY and cannot full
139 JU068 : Since the European Commission could not launch an investigation by itself, it really makes me wonder who reported them? I doubt it was Aegean so who c
140 CYatUK : Could it be related to the fact that CY is an EU airline and hence there are no restrictions on what routes they fly inside the EU? I mean, given tha
141 Post contains images VCy : Also, if im correct, MEA can not fly to the US right? Maybe the can launch BEY-LCA-JFK? On another note, it looks like LHR will not be axed for now
142 EL-AL : What about TLV? CY is operating 8 flights a week with increasing tourism from Israel to Cyprus in the past few years, can Lebanese share holders live
143 Post contains images VCy : Probably the government will try and prevent this from happening. And also, given that the route is so profitable, apparently, i think they'll live w
144 TK105 : Considering that main traffic to Cyprus is from mainland Europe, this will not be a practical routing as it will add at least 2 hours more flight tim
145 Post contains images VCy : True, however with the strong SkyTeam links i'd say AZ is most likely. Or CDG or AMS
146 CYatUK : I don't know about this, but I honestly think that a mini-hub/base in an EU country located so close to BEY will be beneficial for MEA. The suggested
147 VCy : Agreed! I know that MEA wanted to launch Moscow & Madrid, and also served Copenhagen, Dusseldorf, Nice & Rhodes seasonally, something that CY
148 OA260 : There are many advantages for MEA if they did decide to invest. Also as we have seen in previous years during conflict they have often evacuated thei
149 TK105 : It is a nice fantasy. However realities of CY is much different and a realistic profitable business plan is needed.
150 OA260 : Not with CY metal but with MEA metal maybe.
151 panais : Any Cypriot junior accountant can create a funding vehicle that is 100% EU with 100% non EU citizen or company ownership. And this is totally legal a
152 Post contains images TK105 : Let's assume that you have found enough number of passengers for this flight to become profitable year around! They you need to unload the flight com
153 CYatUK : I think that, as far as the number of passengers is concerned, Lebanon has a population of around 4.5m which becomes 5.4m if you add Cyprus populatio
154 Tobias2702 : Sorry, but in my opinion, it's obivious that there won't be an investor. The sole purpose of this "6+1" plan has already been posted: A purely life su
155 OA260 : They already do it in may cases. Take the premium BA flight LCY-JFK. Now this is for immigration customs but it lands and all passengers get of and r
156 VCy : According to the news this plan, the 6+1 has been suggested since November and it will start taking place shortly this month.
157 TK105 : Actually you answer yourself. They do it in LHR CDG FRA IST, right, but the number of local passengers boarding at those airports is hundreds even th
158 OA260 : How do you know it wont work ? Do you have the figures for Lebanon-USA its a very large amount. If MEA was flying then you would get alot who would t
159 LAXintl : Forget the idea of MEA to the US via LCA. MEA has authority on paper to operate via Paris even, but as bared to serve the US for other reasons. So LCA
160 CYatUK : To be honest, I am not optimistic either however the smaller size in combination with some valuable slots (LHR) could make a deal possible.[Edited 20
161 OA260 : So what reasons other than security were they barred for?
162 CYatUK : Just to add to my previous post, it appears that certain CY Unions have already rejected the plan increasing further my pessimism.
163 JU068 : Hahahaha this only goes to prove that Cyprus Airways unions are made up of morons who desperately need a reality check. It is only because of them th
164 VCy : Not sure how unions work, but isnt it wiser for them to accept having some people sacked for the sake of everyone else? Plus i've heard that one of th
165 PanHAM : unions and work is an oxymoron. You are reaölistic, a way of thinking only a few unions follow. Fact is, CY has no chance to survive without subsidi
166 Post contains images OA260 : LOL... A lot of the time this can be indeed true. The unions will bankrupt the airline for sure if they have their way. They need rid of the unions a
167 LAXintl : Well a few years ago the issue was control over the security infrastructure at the airport and surrounding areas. More recently it is the larger conc
168 OA260 : Yes that certainly was an issue having been a good few times myself I remember one time when a certain group came in and took over the airport and th
169 VCy : Or in CY colors? Would there be a problem if the route was LCA-BEY-USA?
170 raffik : It is due to security reasons and not helped that Hezbollah are in power in Lebanon and in turn in control of security at BEY. Hezbollah are deemed a
171 JA : Can I ask a stupid question? Why doesn't Cyprus Airways look for flying opportunities in other parts of the EU besides Greece and Cyprus? Is their cos
172 VCy : They fly to quite alot of EU destinations like Paris, Rome, Amsterdam, Brussels, London, Zurich, Frankfurt, Munich, Sofia . The places I guess there
173 JU068 : I think he was referring to basing aircraft outside these two regions.
174 VCy : ooooh excuse me! lol i dont think they d be able to compete with something like that!
175 Post contains images VCy : Unfortunately, according to local media, the 6+1 plan is no longer sure. Talks will start again, whilst bankruptcy has still not been avoided. All of
176 Post contains links OA260 : Yes seems so they would rather the company folds then do the sensible thing. Article here only in Greek : Οι εργαζόμενοι της CYPRUS A
177 VCy : According to local media the 6+1 plan is officially not an option anymore.
178 JU068 : They should just shut down the airline or see with Aegean for them to take over these 400,000 bookings. They can ask additional funds from the Europea
179 CYatUK : Perhaps the OA model is suitable for CY.
180 OA260 : Indeed its the only way to crush the unions and re open with no debt, low wage costs and just employ the minimum workforce needed. Otherwise you will
181 Post contains images VCy : Was just looking for flights between LCA-EDI in June. Found the flights were 280 euros, but adding the taxes and fees it ended up costing 505 euros. T
182 TK105 : Try ECN-IST-EDI-IST-ECN routing via TK: All in all less than 300 Euro!
183 VCy : Yes but i wouldn't travel through ECN :p
184 Post contains links VCy : The Airline's pilot union have accepted the plan, describing it as the only realistic approach. http://sigmalive.com/news/local/39994 (greek)
185 JU068 : So which other unions have refused it?
186 Post contains images VCy : The rest of the airline employee unions. I'm guessing flight attendants, managerial positions & ground services (if they are owned by CY). At leas
187 Tobias2702 : Quite easy to explain: They have the better paid jobs, and there is no perspective for any equivalent work on Cyprus if CY should shut down.
188 Post contains images VCy : Trying hard to see their point of view but i really cant... The pilots accepted a 17% reduction in their salary plus the fact that a lot of them will
189 mercure1 : I hope CY realize all these days of problems is causing them to continue to lose business. For instance in France the large Nouvelles Frontières agen
190 JU068 : Flying from the north makes sense only for those who live in Nicosia. If you live in Larnaca you need at least €20 for the petrol, €40 if you liv
191 LAXintl : Sure when there is bad news people will avoid companies. Frankly, I think with all the news and turmoil in Cyprus the broader tourism industry might s
192 OA260 : It may have some effect but unlike in Greece there have not been pictures of violence on the streets and it all seems very calm and thats been said b
193 Post contains images VCy : It has nothing to do with cost or distance. I'm Greek Cypriot, therefore why would i travel through IST when they don't recognize me? They only recog
194 GCT64 : I'm not sure this is already known by everyone else but I wasn't aware that the two A321s are off to Monarch very shortly: 5B-DCO is becoming G-ZBAF.
195 Post contains links OA260 : NEW: 11th hour meeting to broker Cyprus Airways deal Attempts to broker a deal for national carrier Cyprus Airways (CY) continue today as unions and g
196 YVRLTN : A lot of the Cypriot community is in North London, which of course is an easy (if long) tube ride to LHR. However, LTN or STN may make more sense in
197 LAXintl : You realize KM almost shut down last year? The government with EU approval had to recapitalize the company to a tune of €130 million, brought in a
198 VCy : Statement from CY : Ελπιδοφόρο το μέλλον για τις Κυπριακές Αερογραμμές Η χθεσινή συμφωνία
199 Tobias2702 : So, what does CY wants to tell us? There seems to have been some kind of "decisive agreement" with the unions, but what exactly? To me, this sounds li
200 Post contains links JU068 : Late last night a deal between the government, Cyprus Airways board and unions was reached. It includes the following: 1. A redundancy package for 490
201 Post contains images VCy : LHR slots?
202 CYatUK : Well, one may think that these are good news however, the fact that they have reached an "internal" deal for downsizing CY, doesn't automatically sto
203 VCy : So MEA's people are coming to Cyprus tomorrow, with the CEO coming as well.
204 Post contains links and images VCy : In Cyprus for discussions in relation to a possible acquisition of Cyprus Airways are representatives of the Lebanese airline Middle East Airlines. Re
205 VCy : The representative's of MEA had meetings with the board of directors of CY & also the Minister of Finance. They should be departing the island ton
206 mercure1 : It still seem the future of CY not clear. Also even of MEA invest, they are not European so they also have limit on being able to take control and dir
207 VCy : Jat and Etihad are an example. Etihad only has 49% of the airline therefore not being the majority stakeholder.
208 LAXintl : What Etihad 49% in JAT? The Etihad CEO today said "Etihad chief executive James Hogan told a news conference on Monday that any investment could be a
209 Post contains images DutchBoeing : I still don't see what MEA would be gaining by taking a share in CY. LCA is right next door to BEY, so why stimulate two hubs so close together and le
210 OD720 : According to reports, the talks with MEA are at a very early stage. Probably both parties exchanged some ideas and shared their views. Such deals usua
211 panais : Here is how it works. A lawyer in Cyprus, creates a Cyprus registered company, lets call it MEA Cyprus ltd. Owners of this company is a trustee (i.e.
212 VCy : Any ideas what MEA will seek to benefit from in case of some sort of an investment?
213 JU068 : According to Cypriot media the Chinese are presenting their proposal to the government today.
214 Post contains images VCy : And also that 3 Asian companies have showed an interest. Hopefully the media gets to know the Chinese plan
215 Post contains images VCy : There are some very very low fare across CY's schedule. Check the website if you are about to travel found flights to Heathrow return for 170 euros al
216 VV701 : For anyone confused by this, the Greek Orthodox Easter Sunday is on 5 May.
217 OA260 : I guess these fares reflect the drop in bookings ! Its all very unstable at the moment. I guess if you book with a credit card you would be covered i
218 mercure1 : Except such is not possible in aviation sector. Just setting up European shell corporation by majority foreign ownership still not allowed. Look at t
219 VCy : CY is launching DOH soon. Flight will be operated three times a week, with a mixture of A319 & A320. Schedule is Tuesday, Wednesday, Saturday LCA-
220 JU068 : Well, I guess they will be operated with A320s as it was announced that the A319s will leave the fleet, unless they changed their mind.
221 Post contains images VCy : I hope so! Not a fan of A319s
222 JU068 : More bad publicity for Cyprus Airways. A flight to Thessaloniki, operated by an Airbus A320 with 67 passengers onboard, was forced to return to the ai
223 DutchBoeing : Why not? Aren't they newer than the A320's? I personally prefer A319's over A320's, but don't know why really - on the inside you can't see the diffe
224 Post contains images OA260 : I have to say I like the A319s
225 rutankrd : Scheduled with the good old + One frame 5B-DBB C/N 256 Such confidence they have in this aircraft these days it rarely goes further afield than Athen
226 JU068 : Plus this is the aircraft that is supposed to be parked once the new plan kicks in, it is 21.4 years old but it seems that it was stored from 2009 to
227 OA260 : Apparantly Aegean are looking at expanding the LCA hub and starting LCA-BEY and LCA-TLV. With the LGW-LCA route going I guess they feel the aircraft w
228 JU068 : Do you know when/why are they discontinuing their Gatwick flights? MEA will be increasing Larnaca from daily flights to ten weekly. Morning flights a
229 OA260 : Last flight 9th May . Those affected being offered Via ATH or full refunds. Because they are going to use the aircraft for higher yielding routes.
230 JU068 : It is a shame they couldn't make money on this route during the summer season. Let's hope they return to London from Larnaca once the economic situat
231 DutchBoeing : Wait, what? Have the officially axed LHR now as well? I missed that completely...
232 OA260 : Yes its gone totally.
233 Post contains links and images VCy : http://www.dailystar.com.lb/Business...-airlines-talks.ashx#axzz2R2FYVwhq MEA confirms that they are interested in CY. However the article states that
234 Post contains links JU068 : Here is another interesting article on the fees at both Cypriot airports. However, I doubt Ryanair or Wizz Air paying the full fees. http://www.cyprus
235 OD720 : I saw that report on LBC and from memory it says that CY first contacted MEA about a year ago but MEA didn't seem interested as CY was a hugely loss
236 VCy : Does anyone have any idea what MEA will benefit from such an investment?
237 OD720 : Could be that they want a way to the North American market? Just an idea.
238 rutankrd : I think there may yet be issues with the FAA if and when the CY/ME partnership is sanctified. It remains the best Beirut-US opportunities are via Par
239 VCy : Why would there be a problem if the flights were operated with CY aircraft? An A330-200 could do LCA-JFK, maybe a lease by MEA?
240 OA260 : If it was CY aircraft that originated in LCA then I don't see an issue but if the flight originated in BEY there maybe. They may see it the same as a
241 rutankrd : May be okay if registered in Greece ! Ironically this might to allow over flight of Turkey, and Central Europe, North Atlantic on a great Circle rout
242 JU068 : At least it seems that Paphos will do just fine this year. Currently there are nine charter flights on their way from the United Kingdom (5x B738 and
243 Post contains links LAXintl : According to this story, the CY board met on Thursday and was commencing the process of cancelling aircraft leases, and also adjusting its flight sche
244 Post contains links mercure1 : It seems the Lebanon Central Bank Governor says the government would not approve MEA plans to acquire CY as it would create big risk for the Lebanese
245 LAXintl : Lebanese government is playing it safe. Simply being the money man without ownership control is a bad situation to be in. ME itself is not very big an
246 Post contains links VCy : www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/general_aviation/read.main/5760913/ let's continue under the new post
247 Post contains links GB777 : The end of the road for CY ? http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cy-board/...s-over-redundancy-package/20130514
248 CYatUK : I think what is not mentioned in the report is that the Board's decision came just after the Government's decision to hire external Consultants to ov
249 raffik : The Lebanese Central Bank, that owns a vast percentage of the airline (MEA) has said that they will not provide funding for MEA to make the purchase o
250 Post contains links OA260 : BA increasing their presence in the Cypriot market. British Airways launches new route: Larnaca – London Gatwick British Airways is launching a new
251 mercure1 : So what is latest? I see unions agree to the cuts. When are aircraft getting parked, and schedules trimmed? Also who is keeping CY afloat in the mean
252 bennett123 : Personally, I would ground 5B-DBB, which was built in 1992. It may be still possible to get some $ for it. If there are no takers, then it could be us
253 CYatUK : All CY fleet is leased apart from 5B-DBB. The Cypriot Government have appointed a brand new Board of Directors yesterday (worth to note that none of
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