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Are All The Majors Going To Survive?  
User currently offlineCO/ba From United States of America, joined May 2001, 399 posts, RR: 3
Posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

Do you think AA UA will survive all of the negative publicity due to the attack? How will this affect CO, NW, US, and the other majors? What about the low-fares and aviation in the U.S./the rest of the world? This is a huge blow to aviation but who will survive?

38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBoeing in pdx From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2530 times:

It was poor airport security, not the airlines that let these planes be hijaked

User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3266 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2495 times:

I hope you will no longer see any more $5/hour monkeys who can't read and write standing around the x-ray machines pretending to be professional security personnel.


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User currently offlineVulindlela744 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 520 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2451 times:

Halleluhuh!!!!!! I totally agree!!!! We need real professional now with real concern over passenger safety. Not some woman checking to see if her manicure was done good or not

User currently offlineCOboeing777 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 693 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2408 times:

couldnt have said it better myself Vul. I see you've been to EWR quite a few times huh

User currently offlineMCOtoATL From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 474 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2393 times:

It will be interesting to see what happens. In my opinion, which is often far from correct, here is what I see:

* obviously, the airlines racked up huge losses over the past few days when flights were grounded. In addition, many of them are paying for the lodging of their stranded passengers.

* any sort of conflict pertaining to the middle east will most likely see an increase in the price of fuel, and that really affects the bottom line of airlines.

* the airlines were slashing fares prior to Tuesday so that they could attract more flyers. The slowling economy was taking its toll on the airlines.

* there may a bit of trepidation on the part of flyers, at least for a while, and especially for leisure travels.

All of these add up to huge losses for the airlines. To make matters worse, while many airlines face hemmoraging bottom lines, they may have to lower fares to attract passengers, thus taking a "double whammy."

But the airlines that are hurt the most are the ones who have smaller amounts of cash reserves. Airtran comes to mind, and it would be a shame to see profitable airlines unable to overcome some tough (and out-of-their-control) circumstances.

I think the majors will be fine for now. But sadly, smaller carriers may face tougher times. I hope I am wrong about the latter.


User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3402 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2366 times:

what about the strugglers- USair? AmWest?


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineAgnusBymaster From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 652 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2331 times:

The only carriers I am confident about are Southwest, Continental and Delta. Northwest will probably make it. UA and AA will probably pull through, but not without significant cutbacks. I think the future looks bleak for USAirways, and bleaker still for America West.

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2305 times:

You're all way off base.

These hijackers had valid IDs, reservations in thier own names, no metal knives, nor guns. It will turn out that everyone at the security check point did everything that they were asked to do.

What happened was a failure of the airline's security measures.

1) Pilot's venturing out into the cabin.

And/Or

2) Flimsy cockpit doors.

Now, this type of attack has never happened before, so I want to make clear I do not blame airlines for not having these measures in place. But, it is time for a change in In flight security measures.





User currently offlineSouthRebels From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2293 times:

"I hope you will no longer see any more $5/hour monkeys who can't read and write standing around the x-ray machines pretending to be professional security personnel."

Your racist connotations aren't needed nor are they appreciated. And please, don't reply trying to justify or remedy your post. You said it, you know what you were saying and so does everybody else. I understand what you are saying, aiport security "guards" suck and we all know most aiport personel are black. Don't bring racism into this. It's wrong and you know it. Grow up.


User currently offlineRyefly From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1396 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2286 times:

I'm sorry to think this but I fear AA and UA will have major trouble recovering from all of this. They are so huge now so they might survive all of this which I really hope for them but it will be a struggle. If you look at past airlines which suffered major disasters many are no longer flying today. That's scary to think. Pan Am, TWA, Air Florida, are just some I can think off the top of my head that went out of business after highly publicized crashes.

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2281 times:

Uh, South Reb

I read the post and while I thought it was kinda mean it did not occur to me that it was racist. You may be jumping to conclusions here.


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3266 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2276 times:

Ummm,
By looking at your age, I can see how you could jump to such a senseless and defensive conclusion. Face it, we are in some serious times here and there is no room for petty accusations or political correctness.



.......
User currently offlineCathay Pacific From Australia, joined May 2000, 1864 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2263 times:

just wondering, what was the finacial situation for TWA and Pan Am before their major accident????




cathay pacific, now you're really flying
User currently offlineLsjef From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 2264 times:

If the times are so serious, than let's get serious, JMC1975. Your post was seriously wrong, for the hurtful slam you made at the many minimum wagers who are just doing their job. It is not their fault that the security system is marginal by design, and it is clearly not right for you or anyone to label them as $5/hr monkeys.

On the racism issue, I fly mostly on the West Coast where most of these security agents are Hispanic or Asian. I didn't see this quite the same as Southrebels, but I can agree that given the tendency for non-whites to hold these jobs, there is an implied racism.

Whether Black or Asian or poor-white-trash (like myself), it takes a far poorer person to label these workers as $5/hr monkeys. If some of you don't understand this point, take your mom out to lunch and let her see the child she tried to raise. She'll help you to see the shame you should feel...


User currently offlineAWA22 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2240 times:

Why does every one always assume HP is struggling. We really are not, are losses are not that bad, the cash reserve is good, management is pretty good now. I beleive we will survive, we are in a lot better shape then US.

We had a pretty good day at least in SAN, quite a few people buying last minute exspensive one way tickets as we were 1 of only 2 airlines flying out of SAN today. DL was the other.


User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3266 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2220 times:

I'm sorry you feel that way. It's not advisable to make judgements on things you know nothing about.


.......
User currently offlineJmc1975 From Israel, joined Sep 2000, 3266 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2227 times:

AWA22-
I agree with you. I honestly believe that America West is in just as good if not even better position than most airlines (especially UA and AA) due to its route structure and cost structure. In these times, I believe all airlines are now on a level playing field and America West really has the opportunity to shine and put its troubled past behind it.



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User currently offlineDelta_fan From Mexico, joined Jul 2001, 132 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 2187 times:

I think DL will emerge as the new airline gigant and without taking the tragic events of our minds , probably DL will take advantage from AA and UA in this situation.

User currently offlineSouthRebels From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 2120 times:

Jmc - Why can't you just be quiet instead of defending what you said. It a sign of your ignorance. As for my age, I think that helps me realize more than you think. Our generation hasn't seen the likes of this ever before, not is our generation a generally racist group. What our generation has learned in the way of hating people comes mainly from our parents and grandparents. Generations like which you come from. Comments like you make start this shit and only add stress that isn't needed at any time, let alone this time. Just go back and read what you said and think about it. If you can honestly come back here and tell me there were no racist implications you are only lying to yourself, because everyone else can see it, to some extent or another.

User currently offlineMilemaster From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 1063 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2107 times:

Enough!

I am so tired of everyone walking around with racism scanners on. He used the term "Monkeys"... So what?
Doesn't mean his comment was racist.

I went through this on planebusiness.com a while back when I made a comment as to the fact that the only inflight magazines available on my last few flights were Ebony magazine. Instead of people reading for what I was saying, they decided I was being a racist for mentioning it.

I then responded by suggesting that if I had complained about only being golf digest on my flights instead, should expect a verbal assult by a bunch of golfers?

Rediculous.

Let's focus on the topic at hand, not dig up more hate.

Geez....


User currently offlineChepos From Puerto Rico, joined Dec 2000, 6213 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2091 times:

I think the airline that will be most harmed is UAL. They were in a precarious situation (money wise) and now this , AA will also be harmed by this but they were in a better financial shape than UAL. At the same time the TWA takeover in my opinion will affect AA now, they will have to downgrade their system and they will have to retire equipment faster than olanned.
Chepos



Fly the Flag!!!!
User currently offlineLindy field From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 3116 posts, RR: 14
Reply 22, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2066 times:
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I'm with Chepos on this. UAL has been hemhoraging money this year, their labor costs are high, their long-term strategy was blown by the failure of the USAirways merger, and now they face this. I don't necessarily think they'll disappear but I think they face a good chance of Chapter 11. US Airways may also face a struggle for familiar reasons. AA may be overextended with its TWA takeover. These three are on the top of my list of threatened majors. ATA, Sun Country, and certainly National also face trouble.
I see Continental and Southwest as possibly coming out in the best shape, but we'll see...


User currently offlineDeltaOwnsAll From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 2060 times:

I tend to think that DL will take over as THE major airline in the world. While they will obviously not be increasing their system at the moment...I would think that UAL and AA will be in large financial trouble. IF these two airlines are held accountable for the losses of the WTC...including buildings, lives, etc...I don't know what they could do. I personally do not think that they will be held accountable for all of that...but they may be held accountable for enough. I think that the government will keep them going, as they are the two largest airlines in the world...and if they went down there would be something like 180,000 employees (estimate) out of jobs. At any rate...AA is reducing operations by 20% already...and UAL is in worse shape than them...so I would expect them to decrease the same amount if not more. As DL was by far the third largest airline in the world before this tragedy...I would expect them to pick up the slack. I would be interested to see what some of you have to say on this...as I know that I may be very wrong...but please stop the racism talk. This thread was started on the topic of Are All the Majors going to survive.
DeltaOwnsAll


User currently offlineWN700Driver From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (12 years 11 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2051 times:

AWA22:"Why does every one always assume HP is struggling. "

Because you are always late & drive old rust buckets, thats why. Sorry, I really don't mean anything about that, but working for WN, I was oblidged to Slam. You guys a great (to all who are flying today), and keep up the good work. Have a good day all  Big grin


25 Post contains images YoungDon : SouthRebels, Chill out. Its not that crucial. Everyone else, I'm sorry to say that I seriously doubt that US will survive this, especially if DCA is c
26 SouthRebels : Everyone -- I didn't call him racist. I said what he said had racist implications. I don't know how many of you here are currently going to school, bu
27 MDL_777 : Please don't take this as a flame, but maybe you didn't hear the news yesterday. The US Congress has approved $12.5 billion, (that's billion with a "b
28 SFOintern : You think CO is going to survive? Well, they just laid off 12000 employes. That's about 1/5 of their workforce. You have to remember CO's huge debt lo
29 Co/ba : CO will survive and all employees that are laid off will come back to work as soon as we return to profitablity.
30 RJ_Delta : Hi: Possibly many small airlines will not survive like Vanguard, Spirit, Air Tran, Jet Blue, DCAir, and the others. The BIGGEST Carriers like American
31 JAL : The US govt. will never allow any major carrier to fail.
32 Tsully : Congress will step in and keep AA/UA afloat if need be. There is no way they will fall apart. NO way. Long live UAL. Good luck AA.
33 Boeingfan : Congress will approve the 12.5 Billion for the airline industry. Continental will have the shortest 8 hours or less furlough package ever offered. The
34 Sforamper : Now I understand why we were one of the first to start flying on Thursday, AWA22 mentioned people in SAN paying pretty high fares to get to their dest
35 Bruce : Someone in an above post said they had no METAL knives?????? They had box cutting knives. They used them to kill crew members. How can a box cutter be
36 Timmsp : I found the following announcement on NWA's website. It looks like the next several months could make or break an airline in the US. MINNEAPOLIS (Sept
37 YoungDon : MDL_777, No, not a flame at all. I do see your point with CO's high debt, but they also have a lot more cash than most of the major airlines. They los
38 Post contains links and images NWA CRJ : I do not think this will affect Northwest at all. I do not think that I will have to worry about them. Click for large versionPhoto © Janne Laukk
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