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Bye Bye National Airlines And Jetblue  
User currently offlineDefunctairline From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3579 times:




National Airlines is now in a world of trouble. Their Letter Of Credit expires in early October, and with the major shutdowns they are lossing mega $$$. Also I don't think anyone would want to fly this airline because of the 757-200 Fleet ( Which was targeted by the hijackers ) , also since N7 only flies long haul flights they have a lot of fuel ( Another factor targeted by hijackers). They also have a hub in Vegas a big city. I would not be suprised if who ever these people are hit Las Vegas or a another West Coast city.

P.S. I hope All Of You In NY Are Allright. I My Self Have Lost Friends And Family.




49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAkelley728 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 2193 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3064 times:

Umm, why did you say National AND JetBlue?

Youu don't mention JetBlue in your post, and they don't have the financial problems National has.


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 2, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 2942 times:

Not only has jetBlue fared REMARKABLY well during this tragedy, so far, but they are offering heavily discounted tickets to family of the WTC victims so they can get to New York City. Not only is that an incredible gesture (and, to be entirely honest, on a marketing stand point, that will get them customers and attention, though that is not the point), that shows they care about thier home town and the victims, but they would not be doing it if they could not afford not to. N6 is not your typical start-up. They actually have money to spend and waste.


a.
User currently offlineRyu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 493 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2819 times:

What??? National flies many short-haul flights, like LAS-LAX. And why would someone avoid on an aircraft type simply because it was the same type of plane used by terrorists?

User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2759 times:

In what respect has JB fared remarkably well during the time that they were grounded?

User currently offlineDCA-ROCguy From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 4507 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2735 times:

Defunctairline, my heartfelt sorrow and prayers are with you and your family.

However, as noted above JetBlue will come through this fine, as will Southwest. They're financially flush. National was already in bankruptcy. They may well suffer the same fate as Midway.

Jim



Need a new airline paint scheme? Better call Saul! (Bass that is)
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2674 times:

Flush? As in flush with cash? I was under the impression that JB had gone through it's start up funding.

User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2570 times:

JetBlue reported profits (which many privately held companies usually don't report to media outlets) ahead of schedule, and still are maintaining profitability. National is in CH. 11, and considering the industry as a whole has lost well over $500 million dollars because of the ground stop, no telling how much these financially troubled carriers have lost. It would not be a big surprise if National is still flying a month from now. People will be afraid to fly for who knows how long, and people will also try to avoid flights on 757s and 767s just because those types were used in the attacks, and on top of that, many people flying transcontinential flights my choose to fly multileg flights as opposed to nonstops for the same reasons as they may avoid 757s and 767s. The ground stop killed Midway, and will more than likely kill National. And I think perhaps Vanguard may be on the critical list because losses due to the ground stop as well.

User currently offlineFleet service From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 623 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2544 times:

WN may well come thru this in decent shape, jetblue on the other hand is another story.One of their core routes, JFK-FLL is historically a leisure market, if leisure traffic levels continue to erode will they remain "Flush"?



Yes, I actually *do* work for an airline,how about you?
User currently offlineCeilidh From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 2537 times:

Fleet service - leisure market = low yield. It won't make any major difference to them. It's the high yield business traffic that airlines are much more concerned about!

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 10, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 2461 times:

The NYC-Miami markert (MIA/FLL/JFK) is highly business too, but MIA get's the buisness passengers (mainly AA), while FLL get's the lesiure passenger (WN, JB, DLX). Trust me, you won't many see flights end on this route, maybe one or two, and it is not as low yield as one may think. This is the most traveled city pair in the US. JB will do FINE. They average 95% loads on FLL-JFK on six, soon eight, daily fligts, and have plans to start FLL-LGB next year. Yes, traffic will drop off for a few months, but everyone, including AA and UA, will recover, with few exceptions (maybe National).


a.
User currently offlineSegmentKing From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2417 times:

Ah, but the Florida - East coast yields are PATHETIC!! I can book you a last minute fare from Palm Beach to Newark for about $220 ONE WAY.... versus other markets that charge 4 and 5 times that.... 14 day fares almost ALWAYS seem to hover around $110 - $150 round trip.....

User currently offlineKROC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2396 times:

I seriously doubt that the aircraft type will pprevent a person from flying. The common travler doesn't know what kind of plane they are flying on. It doesn't really matter. Also, the 757/767 were targeted because they were large aircraft fully fueled for a transcon flight. A terrorist will use whatever aircraf they can get ahold of, if they want to.

User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1650 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2325 times:

Keep this in mind....

During the Groundstop airlines were not makeing money...but they were also not spending money ether....(well not much)

Also... I don't think that most pax can tell the diffrence between a 757 and a A340.



My Country can beat up your Country....
User currently offlineN509JB From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 0 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2310 times:

Please dont associate jetBlue with National. We are nothing alike.

No doubt, this will be a challenge for us, and the entire industry. I'd like to thank you all for yer support. It helps me continue to be optomistic about the future.

N


User currently offlineAirbus380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2250 times:

jB is not going anywhere for a long time!

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2237 times:

Excluding West Palm Beach and Islip, there are about 60 (I think actual number is 56) flights a day between South Florida and the New York City area, and rarely do those flights leave without a pretty full aircraft. Yields might not be the best in the world (though please look at how much it would cost to fly MIA-LGA last minute), but it is America's most popular city pair and will remain that. And we're not talking filling up 737s here. AA runs 757s, A300s, and 767s on this route with little, if any, trouble filling up business. DL and Pan Am used to fly 747s on MIA-JFK, and Tower Air filled up 747s everyday on MIA-JFK until they went under. FLL-JFK is the route that keeps jetBlue running.


a.
User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2181 times:

Why would people not fly B757/767 or other fully fuel laden flights? There is nothing wrong with the planes, and the fuel is a neccessary evil, for lack of a better expression. The problem is the people with twisted minds whom we can all run into everyday without knowing. How many murderers have you sat next to in a bus or train or restaurant?

User currently offlineDoug_or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3421 posts, RR: 3
Reply 18, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2175 times:

Sinlock- not spending money!?!?!??! Fine, the grounded aircraft weren't burning gas. many will have larger than usual ramp fees (espeicaly cargo airlines). Pilots and FAs at oustation will still be paid whatever hourly bonusus their airline gives for this. payments on aircraft and leases still will be due. salaried employees still get paid, as will the hourly people working phones and reservations desks. In the coming week or two, airlines will have to shell out a LOT for overtime, and probably burn a decent amount of gas flying empty planes into position. Airplanes on the ground DO cost money, thats why airlines strive for high utilization.


When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11422 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2146 times:

"During the Groundstop airlines were not makeing money...but they were also not spending money ether....(well not much) "

That's far from the truth. The airlines are constantly spending money. They have to pay for the planes, the office space, the gate space, the labor, etc. Midway Airlines went out of business during the ground stop because they were losing so much money and not taking any in, the chances of them ever emerging from bankruptcy were nil.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

OK, I'm concluding from the responses that JB has done "really well" while their aircraft sit grounded and they're still "flush" with cash. Also, they make alot of money in the NYC-FLL market, which has a average yield of $105. It most likely won't even effect them when DL adds an additional 4 flights in the coming months to PBI and FLL.

User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2092 times:

Yeah...I think Vanguard, JetBlue, National, and USAir are in for a world of hurt!

With so little revenue to chase...the big boys are gonna be pounding on the pee-wees....


User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33041 posts, RR: 71
Reply 22, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2068 times:

Padcrasher, your right, it most likely won't affect them because while DL is adding four more flights, jetBlue is adding five more flights, and jetBlue has already made a name for itself in South Florida that Delta Express has not. Delta Express is mainly meant to get tourist FROM the Northeast and Midwest TO Florida at cheap prices. South Floridians perfer flying American, Continental, and jetBlue, as well as mainline Delta, over Delta Express.


a.
User currently offlinePadcrasher From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 23, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2026 times:

Who knew that South Florida had all this pent up demand for NYC? JB adding more capacity is even better. The yield should drop to $65 and they will just wait DL out using their huge cash reserves obtained from their wildly profitable operation.  Big grin

User currently offlineElal106 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 975 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (13 years 1 month 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1989 times:

Uncle sam will have to pay for all the losses of all the companies....correct?~!!!!!!!



25 AgnusBymaster : Nope.
26 Spinkid : This may actually be good for jetBlue. If people are afraid of flying the majors or 757's and 767's. They will turn to jetBlue. National may well not
27 N509JB : >>Yeah...I think Vanguard, JetBlue, National, and USAir are in for a world of hurt!
28 VirginA340 : JB will live on and hopefully become international. DAve knows what he is doing and ever employee has a high moral in that company.
29 Post contains images Elal106 : AgnusBymaster, seems like u dont know much....lets make a bet on it that the goverment will give them the money sometime next week....! VirginA340: JB
30 Mah4546 : Elal106, actually, quite the contrary. jetBlue does have plans to serve Aruba and other island destinations (some domestic, like SJU) in the Carribbea
31 AgnusBymaster : No, that's not what you said. You said that the government would be forced to pay for the airline's losses and there is no way that's going to happen.
32 Greg : JetBlue doesn't have the cash to withstand this. If CO, UA, AA and the like are having problems...you can bet that JetBlue is right behind them. Even
33 N509JB : We just got an email from David Neeleman stating that we are still profitable, still have money in the bank, and not planning on laying off anyone. We
34 Airblue : I agree with Greg, in the next months all carriers battling for every seat possible and they will look more to the low-fares than business in order to
35 Dazed767 : As much as greg doesn't want jetblue to be successful, I think they will do just fine through all this crap. All the airlines are going to suffer, but
36 Greg : Also...recent events have ruined any possibility of having an IPO which JetBlue's Neeleman wanted for expansion (not to mention to get his money out o
37 Lowfareair : A dollar over cost is still millions better than many other airlines, even when fractioned down to B6's size.
38 Greg : The larger point is that his IPO is shot..... And that's his primary reason for starting the airline....he's gotta be pissed! His investors too!
39 Dazed767 : “But with a limited number of destinations and frequencies and only 14 planes (whether brand new or not...) they can..and probalby will be stepp
40 Co LITE : jetBlue will be fine. They have lots of money and I am sure Neeleman knows what he is doing.
41 Lindy field : JetBlue is a "cult" airline for a reason--Nice service at low prices. I fly them frequently and always find the staff very helpful. I'm usually able t
42 Pilot1113 : JetBlue will survive this mess. Neeleman has planned for the worse case scenario... no profit for at least 3 years! I love all the armchair quarter ba
43 Post contains images N509JB : Once again I thank you all for yer support. Sometimes I thank god for free speach. It lets you know who ths fools are. N
44 Jmacias34 : Its jetBlue's 14 A320s which keep their costs down, it isn't like they have 300+ aircraft in their fleet. 9.11.01 hurt jetBlue, but not nearly in the
45 KLM672 : I think JB is fine.
46 JetBlue-320 : jetBlue will survive!
47 Mah4546 : Doesn't jetBlue now have 16 A320s? I though they are getting them at a rate of something like one or two a month. I don't think many people realize ho
48 Ironchain15 : All I can say is that if Vanguard, Midwest Express, and US Airways (and maybe some of the others) all go bankrupt, extinct, or whatever, we are going
49 Post contains links and images L.1011 : how 'bout this? A major buys JB and operates it as a subsidiary. The major could help JB expand while JB would fly passengers from seccondary APs int
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