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Air Tahiti Nui Seeks ATI-JV With Air France, Delta  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 11694 times:

Air Tahiti Nui has filed with the DOT for authority enter into ATI JV with Air France providing for metal neutrality and revenue sharing on its trunk trans-Atlantic route between Tahiti, Los Angeles and Paris. (the local LAX-PPT segment is not covered in the proposal)

Along with the proposed AF-TN JV, Air Tahiti also seeks to link with other Air France immunized alliance partners Alitalia, Delta, and KLM, TN's current single trans-Atlantic route enabling carriers to increase service options, and enhance competitiveness for unaligned TN.

Carriers say their long-term relationship along with the political, cultural and commercial links between Tahiti and France provide for common business interest leading to this proposed Atlantic JV and is essential for the continued viability of TN as a international airline.

Also for those thinking - the application says TN has no plans to join Skyteam - the cost and burdens in joining would outweigh the benefits they say. They also say they will maintain their trans-Pacific codeshare relationship with American Airlines. (and I assume others with QF and JL as well)



OST-2013-TBA

[Edited 2013-04-15 17:05:48]


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (1 year 8 months 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 11296 times:

I wonder when this relationship will evolve into the one like former UTA-Air France.

They both meet and park side by side at LAX.
TN only operates PPT-LAX and AF takes passenger between LAX-CDG.

I think AF and JV partners will find they prefer to keep passengers on own aircraft with better economics then have TN also service Paris directly one day.

Could be eventual win-win.
Allow TN to exit costly operation all the way to Europe, and allow AF to bid adieu to French Polynesia and its complaints about route and staff cost. They also can better schedule LAX service with 2 daily turnarounds instead then.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 10796 times:

There is a lot of nonsense written and spoken about the supposed poor economics of two-sector flights and of the imaginary virtues of codesharing so that one partner flies the first sector and the second flies the second.

I had this discussion with a senior Singapore Airlines executive, who told me that in fact the conventional wisdom is nonsense, and that they find the two-sector model to the USA far more profitable than single-sectors. In addition, they find that codeshares in general when withdrawing from a route are a form of damage minimisation but that they make it impossible to make a profit thereafter on that route.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7944 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 10656 times:

So my thread about a drunk FX pilot's rumor about DL wanting something with TN isn't necessarily all scotch afterall  
(of course this is a reverse case, JV case...)
Well this will be interesting to see. What can DL bring to the table here? Further connections beyond LAX? Would that help TN's financial position?



Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9367 times:

Delta's part in this is allowing TN to join the Atlantic JV, not LAX connections. (TN does that with AA to 19 US markets via LAX already). So for DL on paper there is another US-France flight it can sell.

From reading the application this is all about helping manage the loss making LAX-CDG sector for TN and help unlock the AF network and customer base (they mention frequent flyers) at CDG and improve TN's traffic flow and market competitiveness in Europe.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 9199 times:

The CEO of TN Etienne Howan tell media the Paris segment was very deficient for the carrier. The 22-hour journey produce loss.

With agreement with AF, he say TN can focus to fortify performance of Los Angeles sector, and AF and its partners help manage sales and cost the LAX-CDG sector.

Also says the AF venture will give opening to TN being able to sell itself from other European markets like Italy, Switzerland, Germany under single TN flight code and help boost tourism prospects.

But this not solve the many problems of TN. They currently remain in tense negotiation with trade unions for continued cost reductions.


User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 8722 times:

I do not know the terms of the current contract between AF and TN, but reading the many threads on this subject, I can not help but wonder why France continues to strive to finance an airline like TN, which has never generated any profit ... For tourism?
I would like to know the balance between the expense generated by TN, and profits generated by tourism, because in my opinion, this is the real question.



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlinedeltalaw From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 78 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8422 times:

Begs the question...if they can't make money, was does TN continue to operate LAX-CDG? What benefit to AF does TN provide to motivate them to continue to prop up TN?

User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 8401 times:

Well several comments come to mind.

In general we know France provides and manage annual budgets to its foreign territories, this clearly includes subsidy to help industry, or even things like to provide price controls on product.
TN is a tiny tiny little part of this bigger politic issue. Since its politics I will avoid to discuss here.

For the aviation and tourism view point is as follows.

Until formation of TN, French Polynesia was 100% dependent on outside companies to bring passenger and goods to islands. In my view this was OK, but to many this was bad situation as one become dependent on outside business interest that do not view or place importance on Tahiti market. Some complain fares were high, there were poor schedules, or not enough seats.

So local politicos lobby and gather money to found airline. This was not unusual and different then other French overseas territories that had own airlines (New Caledonia, Reunion, etc).

TN start service in 1998, and no surprise its a very expensive and competitive situation develop.

In order to assist TN, one way or the other, other competition companies were pushed out from Tahiti. Some like Qantas enter codeshare with TN, others like Corsair were pushed harder by government to depart.

Eventually this situation evolve to where TN now become majority of capacity to islands. But instead of making good money and advantage of its situation and everyone happy, we have events of like 9-11, the American wars, world economy mess, and airline continue to lose money as tourism decline.

Today the situation has become that FP, its citizens, and hotels are dependent on the fortune of TN. Good or bad, market is dependent of TN, and without TN it would be real economic disaster for islands. Tourism is still down (this is largest sector about 1/4 of GDP), and local economy is so so. Also cannot accept mass losses of jobs - TN employ almost 1,000 people, and tourism industry cannot absorb more loss either.

But it seems the local government has woken up last year maybe to realize it no longer can afford to write new check to cover losses of TN, but has hard time to define how to improve things. They try to cut cost, increase revenue but it seems this is not enough either yet. Now some depending on TN like hotel industry and local citizens complain even more as fares rise and traffic decline further. Some now say maybe the entire business plan idea might be rotten.

Its almost a stand off now. While I think many realize TN is problem for islands, there is no ready solution to replace capacity which FP is to critically dependent on.

I think this deal with Air France is simply one step of many needed and meant to help manage the losses on the long Paris sector. AF is much more expert at selling tickets from LAX to Paris then TN can. It must often discount heavy. Access to AF frequent flier customer and lots of new connections via CDG can only help TN.


User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8334 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 2):
There is a lot of nonsense written and spoken about the supposed poor economics of two-sector flights and of the imaginary virtues of codesharing so that one partner flies the first sector and the second flies the second.

I had this discussion with a senior Singapore Airlines executive, who told me that in fact the conventional wisdom is nonsense, and that they find the two-sector model to the USA far more profitable than single-sectors. In addition, they find that codeshares in general when withdrawing from a route are a form of damage minimisation but that they make it impossible to make a profit thereafter on that route.

Maybe works for Singapore Airlines, but it seems this is the opposite directional trend in the industry.

The recent mega Qantas - Emirates deal is built around concept transferring customers to partner at middle point. Jointly they can cover many more markets and handle customers than QF can on its own.

So I dont think its surprise TN-AF reach JV agreement via LAX.

Does not seem to be nonsense for much of industry.

Quoting deltalaw (Reply 7):
Begs the question...if they can't make money, was does TN continue to operate LAX-CDG? What benefit to AF does TN provide to motivate them to continue to prop up TN?

AF-TN have had commercial links since the beginning. Also there are strong political, cultural that likely effect the situation.

Plus dont forget AF itself also had a problem in its Tahiti route with its crew base so this could be part of AF helping itself by providing additional flight frequencies to help build revenue in market.

So whatever the reason, it seem AF was happy to enter into such a JV.


User currently offlineAzure From France, joined exactly 2 years ago today! , 632 posts, RR: 16
Reply 10, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 8241 times:

Quoting airproxx (Reply 6):
why France continues to strive to finance an airline like TN

Really ? Can you please explain ? TN was founded by the local government of French Polynesia, right ? I have never heard of the French government subsidizing TN...



Quoting mercure1 (Reply 1):
I wonder when this relationship will evolve into the one like former UTA-Air France.

They both meet and park side by side at LAX.
TN only operates PPT-LAX and AF takes passenger between LAX-CDG.

It is a possibility. This would be similar with what AF and SB are already doing for the NRT - NOU or KIX - NOU services.

I wonder though if this dual carriers service is the best way to serve these distant islands. UTA used to fly around the world and they were successful. I am aware it was a totally different time with much lower fuel price but still, I wonder if AF should not take over SB and TN, period (I know politics are involved here). What is the point for these local carriers anyway ? Their local governments keep on subsidizing them but the price from mainland France is still absurdly high : eg: CDG - PPT via LAX is often at € 2,200 in Y while CDG - LAX alone - the longest sector - is € 800... Any thoughts ?



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 11, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7819 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 2):
There is a lot of nonsense written and spoken about the supposed poor economics of two-sector flights and of the imaginary virtues of codesharing so that one partner flies the first sector and the second flies the second.

Call it nonsense if you wish, but appears more and more in the industry seek to establish such models.

Clearly lots of bright people must look at the numbers and feel its an appealing enough proposition to follow.

If anything it allows carrier to work to their own strengths and use utilize partners to cover weaker spots and fill in network holes.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 8):
Its almost a stand off now. While I think many realize TN is problem for islands, there is no ready solution to replace capacity which FP is to critically dependent on.

Things seems to have become a catch-22.

FP likes control of its capacity, but now its held hostage by fate of TN, and encouraging new competition which might take some time to accomplish might kill TN completely and make islands again reliant on outside capacity the thing that led to formation of TN to begin with !

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 9):
Plus dont forget AF itself also had a problem in its Tahiti route with its crew base so this could be part of AF helping itself by providing additional flight frequencies to help build revenue in market.

Will be interesting to see how this develops in long run.

Will AF eventually exit LAX-PPT and TN leave LAX-CDG ?



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6825 posts, RR: 32
Reply 12, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7766 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 2):
I had this discussion with a senior Singapore Airlines executive, who told me that in fact the conventional wisdom is nonsense, and that they find the two-sector model to the USA far more profitable than single-sectors.

That's an apples-to-oranges comparison. The single sectors from SIN to the USA don't work due to the long distances and the inability of the premium traffic demand to cover the very high costs of operating an A345 from SIN to the USA. If you were trying to draw a valid comparison with TN, it would be between a hypothetical PPT-CDG non-stop and the current PPT-LAX-CDG.

As others have said, the real issue is:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 5):
The CEO of TN Etienne Howan tell media the Paris segment was very deficient for the carrier.

TN lacks the market presence and frequent flyer loyalty in LAX & CDG to effectively compete on the LAX-CDG route, and a fair number of the LAX-PPT seats will be taken by U.S.-originating customers. So operating a half-empty LAX-CDG sector will be very, very costly.

Quoting koruman (Reply 2):
In addition, they find that codeshares in general when withdrawing from a route are a form of damage minimisation but that they make it impossible to make a profit thereafter on that route.

TN loses a boatload of money between LAX & CDG so yes, they do need to minimize the damage. In any event, the requirements to clear U.S. immigration at LAX don't really offer a significant advantage to a single-aircraft operation apart from possible disruptions during irregular operations.

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Air Tahiti Nui Seeks ATI-JV With Air France, Delta

Are you certain that the JV will include DL? It doesn't seem that way from your initial paragraph.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26128 posts, RR: 50
Reply 13, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7707 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 12):
Are you certain that the JV will include DL? It doesn't seem that way from your initial paragraph.

Yes, Delta is included.

The JV is with Air France, which will inturn includes its ATI JV partners DL-AZ-KL in the agreement as they all pool their Atlantic flights.

The first few lines of the application contain:

Air Tahiti Nui and Air France, with Delta, KLM and Alitalia hereby apply for approval of and antitrust immunity for alliance agreement


What is excluded from this is the local LAX-PPT segment. TN says it will maintain it agreement with AA for the trans-Pacific segments and codeshare to 19 domestic cities on AA via LAX.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6917 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 7562 times:

First, to be clear, French Polynesia is France, so a flight to Paris is not a flight to France it's a flight to metropolitan France.

Then, every link between French overseas territories (whatever their exact legal situation) and metropolitan France is subsidized. If TN stops flying to Paris, I can't see how the subsidies can continue.

As for subsidizing the territory in general, well, the French state doesn't get any tax money from there, that says it all. Meanwhile there are public servants, professors etc. (and if they come from metropolitan France, they get a crazy salary and pension), all paid for by the French government. That lets local politicians tax the hell out of people nonetheless, making projects like TN possible.

I love TN livery and choice of aircraft, but things have to change in all the French overseas territories, where corruption and nepotism are rampant, and if that means the death of that airline, so be it.

Just to be clear, I'm not against subsidies and I doubt French overseas territories will ever bring money in the French coffers, but for such cost I would like people there to actually have jobs and a good living standard and democracy, aside from the scenery and weather that is. Unfortunately they even elect people right out of jail !



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3332 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 7164 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 2):
and that they find the two-sector model to the USA far more profitable than single-sectors

That is because a single sector flight from SIN to anywhere US mainland is an ultra-long-haul route that can only be flown (currently) by the A345 or 77L. The economics of flights like this are skewed by the need to carry more fuel to travel the distance and even to lift the fuel and load off the ground. There is also the aspect of needing to carry extra flight and cabin crew on board to cover the downtime and rotation necessitated by such a long time in the air. Plus SQ has the ability to pick up passengers en route to the US via Japan, Taiwan, Moscow etc that TN doesn't get to CDG via LAX.

Good luck to TN on an ATI joint venture with DL & AF, I hope it works well for them and for the people of Polynésie Française.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7095 times:

Yes metropolitan France does subsidize TN and the other territory airlines as well.

For example in middle 2012 airline said its assistance from France has been reduced by EUR2.5mil under Sarkozy budget. I am not sure what this directly cover. However its interesting Hollande campaigned by saying he would reestablish the lost funding previous cuts to overseas territories.
As mentioned above this includes everything from payment of salaries of teachers, to social things like hospitals, to infrastructure projects to whatever amount the airlines get. As example the ATR operator Air Tahiti get very direct funding as routes are considered public service obligation.
Also there was assistance in TN aircraft purchase. A340s are backed by French central bank and even approved by French Senate at time. Also no taxes were paid on purchase which help reduce the cost further.


User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7095 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 10):

Really ? Can you please explain ? TN was founded by the local government of French Polynesia, right ? I have never heard of the French government subsidizing TN...

Mmmm maybe simply because French Polynesia "government" is actually a part of France   ;

Check this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tahiti

with this particular quote : "Tahiti is the largest island in the Windward group of French Polynesia (an overseas country of the French Republic), located in the archipelago of the Society Islands in the southern Pacific Ocean."

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
First, to be clear, French Polynesia is France, so a flight to Paris is not a flight to France it's a flight to metropolitan France.

Then, every link between French overseas territories (whatever their exact legal situation) and metropolitan France is subsidized. If TN stops flying to Paris, I can't see how the subsidies can continue.

Thanks Aesma.



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7085 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
As for subsidizing the territory in general, well, the French state doesn't get any tax money from there, that says it all. Meanwhile there are public servants, professors etc. (and if they come from metropolitan France, they get a crazy salary and pension), all paid for by the French government. That lets local politicians tax the hell out of people nonetheless, making projects like TN possible.

I love TN livery and choice of aircraft, but things have to change in all the French overseas territories, where corruption and nepotism are rampant, and if that means the death of that airline, so be it.

Couldn't have it summed up any better.
It's been too long since TN kept bleeding money from every part. And I don't see why AF wouldn't take over the whole lines between Europe/US and Tahiti.



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlineairproxx From France, joined Jun 2008, 641 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7076 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
The first few lines of the application contain:

Air Tahiti Nui and Air France, with Delta, KLM and Alitalia hereby apply for approval of and antitrust immunity for alliance agreement


What is excluded from this is the local LAX-PPT segment. TN says it will maintain it agreement with AA for the trans-Pacific segments and codeshare to 19 domestic cities on AA via LAX.

Looks like TN is purely requesting the cake and butter here...



If you can meet with triumph and disaster, and treat those two impostors just the same
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7045 times:

For question about Delta above --

Here is quote from TN CEO (translated);

In case of approval, the agreement would enable Air Tahiti Nui to cooperate and coordinate flights between Paris-Charles de Gaulle and Papeete Faa'a over United States.
"Pooling flight schedules with Air France and its alliance comrades will provide our Air Tahiti Nui customers more options on cross Atlantic flights, will give our customers access to the Air France network in Europe and will also increase Air Tahiti Nui offering flights between Tahiti and Paris via Los Angeles" said Etienne Howan, CEO of Air Tahiti Nui.


I guess DL is that "comrade"

[Edited 2013-04-16 18:17:59]

User currently offlinecuriousflyer From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 702 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 8 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6987 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 14):
First, to be clear, French Polynesia is France, so a flight to Paris is not a flight to France it's a flight to metropolitan France.

Then, every link between French overseas territories (whatever their exact legal situation) and metropolitan France is subsidized. If TN stops flying to Paris, I can't see how the subsidies can continue.

As for subsidizing the territory in general, well, the French state doesn't get any tax money from there, that says it all. Meanwhile there are public servants, professors etc. (and if they come from metropolitan France, they get a crazy salary and pension), all paid for by the French government. That lets local politicians tax the hell out of people nonetheless, making projects like TN possible.

I love TN livery and choice of aircraft, but things have to change in all the French overseas territories, where corruption and nepotism are rampant, and if that means the death of that airline, so be it.

Just to be clear, I'm not against subsidies and I doubt French overseas territories will ever bring money in the French coffers, but for such cost I would like people there to actually have jobs and a good living standard and democracy, aside from the scenery and weather that is. Unfortunately they even elect people right out of jail !

Agree 100%

Good luck to TN and AF on that one but I hope they are sensible and limit the cost for the French Government.


User currently offlineAzure From France, joined exactly 2 years ago today! , 632 posts, RR: 16
Reply 22, posted (1 year 8 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 6679 times:

I am well aware that French Polynesia is part of France, thank you ! I am also well aware that TN is subsidized by the local polynesian government.
What I am questioning here is :
1. that the national French government is subsidizing TN directly. Could anyone provide some information on this point ?
2. the interest to subsidize a local airline when it failed to achieve its tasks, ie lowering the ticket price to mainland France and developing/promoting tourism in French Polynesia.



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1714 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 6395 times:

Its a question of degrees.

Paris does not write a check directly to TN, but it yes provides subsidy in various forms to overseas territory airlines.

For example some routes are designated public service obligation. Both domestic routes and international routes can be designated as they are critical links. This subsidy provide to guarantee airline revenue. (this happen in metropolitan France also - service to places like Corsica is with subsidy).

Then there is benefit of avoidance of taxes for overseas companies. They have tax credit and avoid various taxation being based overseas

There is government loan guarantees for overseas companies. Either very low rates, or sometimes government forgiveness of portion commercial loans for benefit of overseas departments. It part of development aid to encourage activity in overseas territories.

Then there is direct payment to overseas departments to assist with infrastructure and transportation. So yes French Polynesia then use this money to fix runways and also to assist local companies.

I suppose which ever way to see it, the French citizen yes is providing subsidy to the many companies based overseas including yes the airlines.


User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (1 year 8 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 6150 times:

This development seriously worries me, not in terms of the economic health of TN/AF, but in terms of more hotel closures.

The SB/AF joint venture has been a disaster for New Caledonian tourism. The two airlines survive due to absurdly inflated fare levels, and as a result their inefficient practices (e.g. flight crews for SB) have been perpetuated and worsened. But a prospective French visitor sees that he or she can fly Economy class to the Seychelles or Mauritius for $1200 or to Noumea for $3900 and turns away.

The exit of Qantas, Continental, competing French carriers and Air New Zealand has been a complete disaster for French Polynesian tourism. Air Tahiti Nui has had an Asia-Pacific monopoly and only Air France competing to the USA and Europe. Fare levels are already absurd compared with Hawaii.

And whereas Hawaiian tourist levels are at historic highs, with even long-abandoned hotels like the Sheraton Keauhou reactivated, multiple French Polynesian properties are already abandoned and derelict, off the top of my head:

Tahiti: Hyatt, Sheraton, Sofitel, Holiday Inn, Te Puna Bel Air, Te Anuanua
Moorea: Club Med, former Beach Club
Bora Bora: Hotel Bora Bora, Club Med, Orient-Express, former Beach Club.

The move to start a joint venture between Air Tahiti Nui and Air France is absurdly anti-competitive, as it will ensure that every single flight into French Polynesia is a monopoly.

And we will watch Hawaiian tourism continue from strength to strength while Tahitian inbound tourism falls ever lower.


25 Prost : Is there any movement to attract more tourists from North America/East Asia to Tahiti? My understanding (which I fully admit may be completely wrong)
26 Post contains links mariner : Australia, certainly,and very successfully, with Aussie tourist numbers returning to pre-GFC levels - at last: http://www.etravelblackboard.com/art..
27 Post contains images Azure : Thank you for your answer. The analogy with Corsica is interesting and I understand the French govt policy in terms of "continuation territoriale" ie
28 Post contains images mercure1 : Tourism is improving - but still far off historic highs. Here is chart - But that is not bad as FP does not want to be, nor has capacity to be mass t
29 mercure1 : Like others mention prior, tourism not focus of New Caledonia, as they have other economic advantages unlike many Pacific islands. Is this a mistake,
30 Post contains images koruman : Mercure 1, I have two points to make in reply. New Caledonia might be blessed with nickel, but living standards would be significantly higher, especia
31 upwardfacing : Has any US carrier served PPT since maybe Pan Am?
32 koruman : Hawaiian still does, with a flight from Honolulu every Saturday which serves principally for Tahitians to go shopping at lower prices. Hawaiian also
33 Mercure1 : In Tahitian media there is story that Air France had to reveal as result of ongoing court case versus its unions that the PPT line lost almost €8mil
34 LAXintl : Makes you wonder why a alleged commercial enterprise like Air France would stick with such loss making route year after year. Surely they don't have r
35 ORDTLV2414 : TN just doesn't have the same quality as AF. hands down.
36 papatango : I don't see anything in this deal which will benefit Delta.
37 Marcus : WOW!!! all of those are closed now? I was in Tahiti back in 2001 and is one of my best vacations, flew an AirLib A340 from LAX, once at PPT there wer
38 mercure1 : They gain additional flight and partner across Atlantic joint-venture.
39 koruman : There has been a change of government in French Polynesia since this thread was started, and I have arrived at the following conclusions: 1) The best
40 mercure1 : I think many realize the interest of the TN and the broader interest of FP and industries like hotels diverge long time ago. In concept it was maybe
41 Post contains links IrishAyes : Interesting article from CAPA. The one thing that I'm struggling to grasp is how this is a win-win for both carriers, as to me, this does not really s
42 mercure1 : Well across Atlantic it adds a frequency to the Joint Venture for partners to sell. It also links the AF CDG network and connections nicely with the
43 davescj : You would think this would be desired in the JV. I wonder why it was left out. What does this actually bring? One more LAX- CDG flight? That's it? Or
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