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New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 126  
User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 14540 times:
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FORUM MODERATOR

Welcome to the 126th edition of the New Zealand Aviation Thread.

Link to the previous thread New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 125 (by NZ1 Mar 19 2013 in Civil Aviation)

216 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25013 posts, RR: 85
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 14486 times:
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There was some confusion about the city pairs in the code share with Turkish Airlines, so here is the full list, from the filing:

Operated by Turkish Airlines (TK/NZ*)

Istanbul - Los Angeles
Istanbul - London (LHR)
Istanbul - Ankara
Istanbul - Hong Kong

Operated by Air New Zealand (NZ/TK*)

Los Angeles - London (LHR)
Los Angeles - Auckland
Auckland - Brisbane
Auckland - Hong Kong
Auckland - Sydney
Auckland - Melbourne
Auckland - Wellington
Auckland - Christchurch
Auckland - Queenstown
Wellington - Sydney
Wellington - Melbourne
Christchurch - Brisbane
Christchurch - Sydney
Christchurch - Melbourne

At the risk of repeating myself, this pleases me on many levels, not all of them directly aviation related. I think it is great that it will be in place in good time for 1915, the centenary of Gallipolli.

http://www.onthegotours.com/Anzac-Da...y-Gallipoli-2015-100th-Anniversary

Old enemies become new friends.

mariner

[Edited 2013-04-18 19:41:26]


aeternum nauta
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 14379 times:

I don't share the enthusiasm shown for two issues late in the last thread.

Firstly, while I am fiercely proud of the decision to legalise gay marriage, I don't think that it will really affect Air New Zealand or New Zealand aviation at all. It's marvellous, but I can't see an impact, sorry.

Secondly, I don't see the relevance of the Turkish Airlines codeshare. TK is an excellent carrier, but who is this codeshare supposed to serve?

Which TK passengers could conceivably find themselves on NZ metal who wouldn't otherwise, or indeed vice versa?

In Mariner's example, surely anyone going to Gallipoli would fly 1-stop from New Zealand on Emirates rather than flying Air NZ to London and then backtracking on Turkish Airlines to London? I suppose that there could be a transfer at Hong Kong, but all the same, it's not exactly a big market.

I'm glad to see that under Luxon there appears to be some thought about where the airline is going. But many of the missed opportunities are much closer to home.

Why aren't people incensed that Air NZ has restricted AKL-HNL to twice weekly (and occasionally 3 x weekly) when now Hawaiian has added three weekly frequencies and we can all see that there was demand for 5x weekly all along, but NZ was deliberately charging inflated fares and restricting supply?

The Honolulu case is really scandalous, an example of how an airline can abuse a market monopoly to maximise yields but minimise volumes, yet end up inflicting self-harm upon itself.

If Air NZ had kept its lounge and kept 5 to 7 weekly frequencies at sensible prices they might now dominate Honolulu's markets from not just NZ but also BNE, SYD and MEL.

Even now, with Seats To Suit, AKL-HNL fare levels in both classes on Air NZ are around 40% higher than on the equivalent SYD-HNL flight, even when corrected for distance. I suspect that the bloated yields of the last ten years have been economically insignificant compared with the missed opportunity to sell 1200 seats per week instead of 500.

[Edited 2013-04-18 23:31:02]

User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25013 posts, RR: 85
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks ago) and read 14362 times:
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Quoting koruman (Reply 2):
Firstly, while I am fiercely proud of the decision to legalise gay marriage, I don't think that it will really affect Air New Zealand or New Zealand aviation at all. It's marvellous, but I can't see an impact, sorry.

Whether it does or it doesn't, it's created headlines, which is half of the battle:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10878374

"Rainbow ruling lures pot of Aussie gold"

But I worry that you put words in my mouth, Koruman:

Quoting koruman (Reply 2):
In Mariner's example, surely anyone going to Gallipoli would fly 1-stop from New Zealand on Emirates rather than flying Air NZ to London and then backtracking on Turkish Airlines to London? I suppose that there could be a transfer at Hong Kong, but all the same, it's not exactly a big market

I didn't claim it was a big market. It is some market, but I said that my comments about Gallipoli were not all aviation related:

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
Old enemies become new friends.

Sorry you missed the point.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 14315 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 199):
NZ 787 ops will almost certainly be to the EH destinations like HKG/NRT/PVG while 777s will fly to the WH like LAX/SFO/YVR/South America.

I wonder what AKL-RAR-LAX and AKL-RAR-SYD will be operated with after the 763s retire. Seems a waste to put the new 789 on these routes, but 772 maybe too big?


User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 14178 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 4):
I wonder what AKL-RAR-LAX and AKL-RAR-SYD will be operated with after the 763s retire. Seems a waste to put the new 789 on these routes, but 772 maybe too big?

the question remains whether Christopher will maintain the RAR-LAX sector in the future, especially if the best aircraft for the job is not going to remain in the fleet. Even with the the 763 still in the fleet, if say CHC-PER proves to be a hit I could see the frequency increase coming from the RAR-LAX service.

RAR-SYD can be operated with whatever aircraft type is the ground spare easily enough - the rotation can pretty much be completed in 24h, it's the AKL-RAR-LAX-RAR-AKL flight which takes a plane out of action for around 40h and is harder to schedule..


User currently offlinecchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1759 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 14147 times:

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 5):
the question remains whether Christopher will maintain the RAR-LAX sector in the future, especially if the best aircraft for the job is not going to remain in the fleet. Even with the the 763 still in the fleet, if say CHC-PER proves to be a hit I could see the frequency increase coming from the RAR-LAX service.

From memory, RAR-LAX is sustained by an agreement / contract with the Cook Islands government. Any idea when does that agreement expires?


User currently offlineZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1662 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 14064 times:

''Air NZ's trans-Pacific flight plans hit bump''

Air New Zealand's trans-Pacific plans for operating Boeing 787 Dreamliners have hit a major problem with an announcement in Washington that rules over how far they can fly from an airport are unlikely to be extended.

As the rule for Extended Twin-engine Operations (ETOPS) now stands, Air New Zealand will not be able to fly its new Dreamliners direct from Auckland to the United States or Canada without a stop or a significant route change.

Under ETOPS, twin-engine planes must always be within 180 minutes' flight of an airport when flying on a single engine in an emergency.

Boeing sold the troubled aircraft on the basis that ETOPS would be changed to 330 minutes.

But today the US Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) chief Michael Huerta told a Senate hearing in Washington that the authority was going to further restrict the ETOPS rule.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/business/indu...rans-Pacific-flight-plans-hit-bump



NZ 787-9 flying between PVG - AKL ! CAN'T WAIT!!
User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2950 posts, RR: 28
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14037 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 7):
But today the US Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) chief Michael Huerta told a Senate hearing in Washington that the authority was going to further restrict the ETOPS rule.

He didn't say that. He just said that it's under review. See the last thread.



Note à moi-même - il faut respecter les cons.
User currently offlinekiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 7146 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 14023 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
I think it is great that it will be in place in good time for 1915, the centenary of Gallipolli.

Except for the fact that the number of Kiwis allowed to go to Gallipoli for ANZAC Day has been significantly reduced, it was capped at 2000, whereas the Aussies get 8000 places. So really there won't be that much demand.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25013 posts, RR: 85
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 13976 times:
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Quoting kiwirob (Reply 9):
Except for the fact that the number of Kiwis allowed to go to Gallipoli for ANZAC Day has been significantly reduced, it was capped at 2000, whereas the Aussies get 8000 places. So really there won't be that much demand.

As I tried to explain to Koruman, I am more concerned with the symbolic significance of it. As in:

Quoting mariner (Reply 1):
Old enemies become new friends.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineaotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 13765 times:

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 7):

Be careful of quoting the media direct as they often get- it-wrong!

This article is plainly incorrect. Air New Zealand currently conducts EDTO 180 minute operations on all its current Pacific and Asia routes. In fact EDTO 240 minute operations are about to commence for the 777-300 operation, however looking at the current route structure and expedited cruise winds, do not expect to see EDTO 240 used very often at all.

How anyone can portray EDTO 180 for the 787 as being short term problem for the airline is beyond me........

[Edited 2013-04-19 21:43:54]

User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 870 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 6 days ago) and read 13723 times:

Quoting aotearoa (Reply 11):
In fact EDTO 240 minute operations are about to commence for the 777-300 operation

Air NZ 77W's were approved for ETOPS 240 mins in Dec 2011 and there were Boeing and Air NZ press releases about the first flight LAX-AKL.

The press releases were removed from both websites during 2012. What happenned?

PA515

[Edited 2013-04-19 22:55:02]

User currently offlinenz2 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2007, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 13677 times:

Has anyone one else completed the survey currently doing the rounds from Luxon? Curious to know what others think of it

User currently offlineaerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 7172 posts, RR: 13
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 13634 times:

Quoting cchan (Reply 6):
Any idea when does that agreement expires?

I recall it being renegotiated about the same time NZ18 stopped being RAR-PPT-LAX. If it's up for renewal about the same time as the 763s are supposed to go then they may have to offer a great incentive to maintain NZ. I recall last time that there were problems even getting the Cooks to pay what they are paying.


User currently offline777ER From New Zealand, joined Dec 2003, 12082 posts, RR: 18
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 13594 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting nz2 (Reply 13):

Is that survey for NZ staff or members of the public?


User currently offlineZKEOJ From New Zealand, joined Feb 2005, 1006 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 13485 times:

Quoting nz2 (Reply 13):
Has anyone one else completed the survey currently doing the rounds from Luxon? Curious to know what others think of it

yup, done it, and gave them my peace  
Quoting 777ER (Reply 15):
Is that survey for NZ staff or members of the public?

For Gold and Gold Elite members

Cheers
micha


User currently offlinePA515 From New Zealand, joined Nov 2007, 870 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 13418 times:

Air NZ are sending a 744 to Phuket 25 to 30 Jun 2013.
25 Jun AKL-HKT 1040/1655
30 Jun HKT-AKL 1845/1045+1
Seats remaining: 245 Economy, 27 Premium Economy, 19 Business Premier

http://grabaseat.co.nz/secure/getaways

PA515


User currently offlineaotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 13363 times:

Quoting PA515 (Reply 12):

I'm not sure why these were removed. The LAX AKL flight you referred to definitely used EDTO 240, as did the AKL GRU AKL flight.

There were a few final issues to resolve before the airline put EDTO 240 into regular use. One of these was some additional software onboard to help crew monitor for fuel leakage at a supply and engine level. This software is now aboard and the crew have been instructed how to use this.

So use of this new capability will occur on a more regular basis from this point on. However, unless one of the en-route alternates is unavailable for some reason (like weather), it won't be used that often. Also, the Tahitians have a very expensive charging schedule for use of their airspace which ensures Air New Zealand doesn't often plan flights into their airspace, as the cost benefit equation doesn't often stack up.


User currently offlinesunrisevalley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 4883 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 13308 times:

Quoting aotearoa (Reply 18):
as did the AKL GRU AKL flight.

Is there anywhere that this flight plan could be accessed? Since IPC is so critical to this route is the weather predictable enough to be able to stick to a schedule most days? Is IPC a 24/7 airport and also what CAT level are the landing aids if any?


User currently offlinenz2 From New Zealand, joined Aug 2007, 213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 13264 times:

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 16):
yup, done it, and gave them my peace

Yes same here. I thought it was almost an acknowledgement of the fact there is some serious issues with the loyalty program and I did use some of the examples Koruman has put forward over the last year or two. Hopefully it will have the effect of swinging the weighting back to actual flying instead of retail purchases. I beleive a good move by Luxon, even giving the direct email of the program head (forget the name) so it appears to be a move to be more engaging with top tier customers


User currently offlineNZ107 From New Zealand, joined Jul 2005, 6408 posts, RR: 38
Reply 21, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 13234 times:

Air NZ eyes crew cutbacks

They're making a profit but claim that their cost base is 20% higher than other airlines.. And that leads to staff cuts.

Less cabin crew = potential for worse service.. ie 763s will be serviced by 7 people rather than 8.

Not only that but it seems like there's going to be a revival of a second entity, similar to what ZEAL320 was - which seems like it'll cover the 787, 767 and A320 fleets.



It's all about the destination AND the journey.
User currently offlinemotorhussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3139 posts, RR: 9
Reply 22, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 13230 times:

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 16):
yup, done it, and gave them my peace

Sorry was that peace or piece?

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 14):
I recall last time that there were problems even getting the Cooks to pay what they are paying.

I may well have a befuddled memory, but I seem to recall the New Zealand Govt. coming to the party in the guise of NZAid, thus enabling the Govt. of The Cooks to recommit to the flight, unlike the Govt. of Samoa when its Tongan counterpart pulled out of their JV.



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlinegasman From New Zealand, joined Mar 2004, 862 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13202 times:

Quoting motorhussy (Reply 22):
Sorry was that peace or piece?

A debate which surfaces every now and then. The answer is, in fact, peace.

I gave them my $0.02 worth too. The airpoints scheme for me is all about status credits to maintain NZ *G. And as soon as EK/QF return to AKL-LAX, it's all over for me and Air NZ. Had enough of the overpriced fares and progressively less comfortable inflight product. It could well be that the high-density 77W, and ratty little A320s on the Tasman are appropriate for the market as a whole - but sorry, it isn't for me.

[Edited 2013-04-20 17:08:37]

User currently offlineaotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 138 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 13204 times:



My apologies. My earlier post referred to the AKL GRU AKL flight, clearly I need to not try and remember IATA airport codes from memory....I really meant to refer to the AKL EZE AKL flight!

In response to the question on the use of Easter Island, yes it is a critical part of the EDTO operation if one wants to operate anywhere close to the GC route.

Please refer to the two thumbnails above from GC Mapper. One shows EDTO 240 and the other EDTO 330. Clearly the EDTO 330 is the way to go in terms of route flexibility. I'm not sure when ANZ intends to apply for this approval.

Easter Island has some key restrictions, one being apron space. I believe this needs to be 'booked' to cover the extremely remote case of an en-route diversion. It's reasonably served with approach aids; an ILS at one end plus an RNAV approach, VOR and NDB approaches on the other end. I'm unfamiliar with the weather patterns.


25 motorhussy : Gosh, hadn't thought of that. EK will soon have RTW capability if they do this.
26 ZKSUJ : Yea Long haul will be operated by 1 set of crew (777 and 747) while Taspac will be operated by another set (320, 767, 787). Thought it was a bit stra
27 777ER : What I got from that article is that the B767 is the only aircraft (at this stage) in the fleet thats having reduced crewing and the A320/B787/B767 h
28 Post contains images ZKEOJ : Re the NZ Airpoints programme: When living in Canada I was UA Premier Executive and really liked it. I was contemplating going back, but now hey have
29 gasman : And therin lies the issue. While EK isn't anything like the airline it's cracked up to be, it does have quite a generous loyalty program. If QF or EK
30 NZ107 : That basically shows you what their intentions are.. That the 763 and 789 will be the plane of choice to these places. Reduced crewing in terms of pe
31 gasman : definitely - although you can't imagine it'll be long before the rest of the Star network puts pressure on A3 to close this little loophole.
32 NZ107 : But in saying that, if you get it now, you've got it for 2 years - they're highly unlikely to revoke membership or that'd cause an exodus. So in esse
33 aerorobnz : Sure, there are plenty - but if it isn't a problem for A3, then it shouldn't be a problem for Star. Remember by having so many members who have never
34 NZ107 : The point I wanted to get to was the fact that they could make a little bit off these people themselves and maybe even help the Greek economy... But
35 xiaotung : Funnily the most recent Airpoints update had the following regarding Star Gold benefits: With Star Alliance Gold Status you can enjoy additional comf
36 zkojq : A few things that have got me thinking... Air New Zealand's next Airbus A320 has been assigned a serial number! The aircraft will apparently be ZK-OJT
37 Kaiarahi : It took 55 years, but I gave up on them last year. If you buy a flight with a N. American connection from NZ, you'll pay more than double for the con
38 Post contains images aerokiwi : Good. Glad to see they're going to address their cost base. This I did not know. Funny the things you learn, and where you learn them
39 KarelXWB : Correct, ZK-OJT will not have sharklets.
40 Post contains links PA515 : Planespotters has ZK-OJT while ATDB has ZK-OXA. E-mailed planespotters two days ago but no reply so far. Possibly both. NGE had a test flight on 15 A
41 Post contains links and images zkojq : That is unfortunate. I was rather hoping that I was wrong. NZ1's most recent post on fleet deliveries has -OXA due to being delivered in June. Howeve
42 Post contains images KarelXWB : I also took a look in the ATDB, it says: - MSN5629: ZK-OXA, 06/13 - MSN5682: ZK-???, 07/13 - MSN5847: ZK-???, 11/13 All with sharklets. So who has it
43 aotearoa : I believe there was some discussion around ZK-OAB being re-registered with an OJ series tail number. Maybe this is OJT? However this doesn't make much
44 KarelXWB : Thanks, case solved. Planespotters is having it wrong.
45 aotearoa : Just took a look at Planespotters. It's a simple case of the wrong rego for MSN 5629. This frame is ZK-OXA, the sharklet equipped domestic aircraft.
46 NZ107 : Makes me wonder if they still offer the original wingtip for sale.. But can't wait to see the sharkletted A320 and also what livery it will carry! Or
47 zkojq : Also, ZK-MVC is due to be delivered anytime soon. I'm going to search around for some photos of in in Toulouse. It should be out of the factory by now
48 NZ107 : I suppose so.. Though it can't be that significant, surely? Especially seeing that the sharklets are smaller than the blended winglets too- thus prob
49 Mr AirNZ : It's just a change of whose doing the flying. The change relates to cabin crew with the aircraft to be crewed by Taspac (A320 international Flight At
50 Post contains images zkojq : Agreed. Production constraints likely have something to do with it also. 42 A320s per month means 84 sharklets per month for the manufacturer (Korean
51 Mr AirNZ : I've seen a photo. Looked pretty black to me sorry.
52 Post contains links NZ107 : Air NZ improves ground experience at LAX Looks like good news for passengers on NZ1/2 transiting at LAX.. Sounds like the end of the holding pen. Let'
53 BonzoLab : MVC suffered damage on the production line, and acceptance by Air NZ was initially refused until repairs were made. In service here mid-May.
54 gasman : Here's hoping the TE901 episode will be balanced - and not yet another regurgitation of the facile views of Holmes and Mahon.
55 777ER : Could this see a launch of an international LCC flying for NZ to better compete against the likes of JQ? What routes will the B763s fly? NZ1, is ther
56 NZ107 : What competition from JQ? Reports are that their AKL-SIN route is not doing that well.. So there's no other JQ route to be 'competing against'. And i
57 NZ1 : No further updates yet sorry. NGE is slated to head to an airline in Africa. Two more aircraft to follow. It's not a done deal yet, but that is the c
58 ZKOJH : some news today, feeding thru the email's the new 77W's will be used on the SFO next year, (which will speed up the retirement of the 744's - ''Los An
59 Mr AirNZ : Not the plan. JQ are likely to announce soon the cancellation of the AKL-SIN route so as NZ107 says, what competition? The 767s (and then 787s) will
60 777ER : I wasn't aware JQs AKL-SIN route wasn't performing well. What competition? JQ is a threat that NZ can't ignore. JQ can easily launch routes from AKL
61 aerorobnz : As I said from the beginning. the 77W was never going to be a new unproven routes. no. the US is firmly 77W territory. YVR definitely 77E territory.
62 NZ107 : Of course they can easily launch routes from AKL. Doesn't mean they'll succeed. If they can't get SIN to work, where will they get to work? Japan? NZ
63 Mr AirNZ : There is plenty of international competition from New Zealand. It just isn't really in the low cost form of Jetstar. There a murmurings from a wide v
64 777ER : So no new USA routes opening with 787s? NZ was previously saying the new 787 would open/enable new North American destinations (IAH, ORD, JFK/EWR as
65 aerorobnz : I believe if there were viable options, JQ would have been far more aggressively expanding NZL services. I think you underestimate NZ a little here,
66 NZ107 : It seems to be the goal of every NZ CEO to drive competitors to the corner - It didn't take long for Freedom Air to rampage all over Kiwi Air. Ok, le
67 Post contains links and images zkojq : Grrrrr. Thanks for the info anyway. I hope she gets fixed up satisfactorily. Thanks for sharing. Agreed, though realistically in a one hour episode t
68 PA515 : After ZK-MVD arrives in September: NPL-CHC gets twice daily DHC's eff. 14 Oct. NPL will have three overnighting DHC's. NPL-CHC 0640/0805 NPL-AKL 0650/
69 Mr AirNZ : Most of the time there is one (and often one of each) out for heavy maintenance.
70 alangirvan : JQ could be a different proposition when the 787s are in the fleet, when the airline knows what range they will get out of the planes. If the planes w
71 sunrisevalley : Has this been announced ? If not are there any intelligent guess/estimates? This leaves the 77E for South America. Nobody that I have contacted that
72 sunrisevalley : That is known now within a per cent or two. The 789 in 280-seat configuration will haul ~43t from LAX-AKL based on a 12hr 30m segment. The fuel burn
73 aerorobnz : not officially, it's rather hush-hush within the company but yes I have heard rumour of what it may be... GRU/GIG are out of the running but that doe
74 aerorobnz : HKT charter is now a 77E rather than a 744...obviously not so popular
75 Post contains links NZ107 : Jetstar pilots complain of lasers No laughing matter.. But is the media trying to make the police look stupid? A Jetstar 737? Not that I ever expected
76 koruman : HKT charter? 744 or 77E? Please, please tell me that Air New Zealand wasn't thinking of market-testing Phuket. They already serve plenty of idyllic is
77 Post contains images mariner : As you might guess, I'm rather hoping they do. If that's where Kiwis want to go, why not fly there. mariner[Edited 2013-04-23 00:03:07]
78 koruman : Yes Mariner, I thought you might, but I suspect that secretly you're hoping that Air NZ will collapse so totally that it becomes a subsidiary of Fron
79 mariner : That isn't my wish for either airline, but I can't stop you making assumptions. But you live in more affluent Australia, you spend up big on air trav
80 koruman : Believe it or not, me too. Lion Air's entry into Australia ain't going to happen. If a nimble airline hubs narrowbody aircraft at Darwin or Broome th
81 Post contains images mariner : At last - we agree. I'd add a few to that list from DRW - Kota Kinabalu, Langkawi, Lombok, even Balikpapan with the feed they'd get from Australia. B
82 ZKSUJ : It is not laughing matter, yet look what happened to the last guy who got caught shining lasers into aircraft. He got a few hours community service a
83 gasman : Do you think this might in fact become something of a self-fulfilling prophecy? If you provide, and market a LCC service you will end up attracting o
84 Post contains links NZ107 : Air NZ CEO dreams of flying first 787 to China Also implies that the 772 which goes to HKG will be put back on the PVG route... Effectively meaning th
85 xiaotung : Just read the article. I think it simply implies that the 772's going back to PVG are the same as those currently go to HKG. It doesn't mean these 77
86 mariner : Nope. I think the airline is responding to the market. I think that an airline flies (or should) where most of its passengers want to go at prices th
87 NZ107 : So do they have spare 772 capacity to operate both PVG and HKG?
88 xiaotung : Not an expert on aircraft usage but yes it was 3 x 777 and 4 x 767 a week a few months ago before they moved to daily 767. So this simply moves back
89 koruman : Sounds like an admission of failure with respect to Honolulu. Air NZ had a monopoly, and restricted themselves to 2-3x weekly 763s without lie-flat be
90 PA515 : Or perhaps he meant the HKG-LHR-HKG aircraft is now used on PVG. And that goes to 4 x 772 and 3 x 767 from Dec. Europe seems doubtful now. The previo
91 xiaotung : Interesting you should mention that. NZ really need to revisit the S2S model particularly on these island long haul routes. VA recently announced tha
92 Post contains links mariner : The code share application - Air NZ/Turkish - has been approved by the US DOT. Here's the page - click on the pdf icon to view the ruling: http://www
93 Post contains links mariner : Some very good numbers coming out of Air New Zealand for March: http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/201317/airnz.pdf "Air New Zealand
94 ZK-NBT : 772s are currently doing up to 5 weekly of the daily SFO services, that's where the 772s will come from to increase 772s to PVG again as the 744s go
95 aerorobnz : the days of the 744 are now well and truly numbered. They'll be lucky to see out the end of next year I think. Once the 2 extra 77Ws arrive they will
96 ZKOJH : Should NZ be worried !! that BA are going to put 2 A380's on the LHR-LAX ROUTE over the next year, seems to ring bell's when the announced the A380 on
97 Post contains images Kaiarahi : Still by far the best PE in the fleet - especially the main deck.
98 sunrisevalley : How will NZ deploy 7- 77W's ? Three AKL-LHR -AKL , three on NZ5/6/7/8 and AKL-MEL/BNE-AKL most days plus a spare ??
99 PA515 : Air NZ will need all seven 77W's most of the time. Three on NZ2/NZ1 AKL-LAX-LHR-LAX-AKL Daily Two on NZ6/NZ5 AKL-LAX-AKL Daily ex Tu Two on NZ8/NZ7 A
100 Post contains links sunrisevalley : For the sceptics ... This link shows ZB001 ( or ZK NZC ) in production. The action is starting ! http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblogger/8679419302
101 777ER : Can't see any evidence (signage, posters etc) saying first B789? Does look longer but photos can make something look bigger
102 ZKSUJ : Still the best leg room in the fleet too. In Y class that is I'm wondering if Standbys had much to do with this increase. If so, what will the effect
103 ZKOJH : Air New Zealand NW13 Long-Haul Changes as of 25/04/2013 Auckland – Honolulu 19DEC13 – 16JAN14 Service increases from 3 to 4 weekly (Except 26DEC13
104 cchan : Interesting that AKL-HKG has no changes, the 772 still sits on the tarmac at HKG for 12+ hours each day. Wouldn't it be better if NZ80 leaves HKG a f
105 koruman : Once a year the Korufamily books an additional discretionary long-haul Premium Economy trip for a holiday where we can use our 2 (each) Gold Elite re
106 aerorobnz : Hawaiian loads have not been great so far - despite all the publicity... I don't think it's so clear cut as you like to convince yourself. Yes they a
107 ZK-NBT : HNL has never been a 772 in the NW, only NS. Pretty sure NRT was actually daily last NW. It could change yet plenty of time for that to happen but it
108 koruman : Good point, but it's hard to see how Air New Zealand can prevail now. If they use the 77E year round they can probably command higher yields but will
109 aotearoa : AKL HNL AKL looks to be a perfect fit-to-mission for the 787-9, especially in the proposed config. Perth also looks to be a better fit than the 777-20
110 ZKOJH : I've just been speaking with my friend who works in the ANZ Travel Center in Auckland, and I asked him about the 787 to PVG next year because i'm look
111 sunrisevalley : ....which is ?
112 aotearoa : I'm sorry. I can't reveal the exact layout of passenger accomodation (LOPA) just yet. I can confirm what others 'in the know' have discussed here prev
113 mariner : Except that Air NZ has just guided to increased profit and Hawaiian has lost money for the last two quarters. mariner
114 sunrisevalley : Do you expect it to have about 10 less seats than the present 77E? When the 77E goes 10 wide what do you expect the total seat count to be?
115 alangirvan : Judging from the TV promotion in NZ just before Hawaiian started flying the route, Hawaiian is telling Kiwis that Hawaii is a good place to change pl
116 aerorobnz : Yep, a bloody good profit considering most carriers from the region, let alone the rest of the world. Yeah they have a few mainland bound passengers,
117 koruman : The above link should be to today's Wall Street Journal, BTW. I don't think that AKL-HNL is responsible for either of those performances, do you? Unti
118 koruman : Firstly, I should make clear that my antipathy to Air NZ management has much reduced and I actually have some time for recent decisions. Secondly, I'
119 aerorobnz : No one would ever say it did, but the aircraft size is right for the job and it is no worse onboard than HA. The only reason you care so much about i
120 koruman : With respect, I think you're misinterpreting the figures. You are saying that Air NZ is retaining its loads with its 2-3 times weekly frequencies now
121 cchan : I have a suspicion that the 77E will get a larger PE section along with Y going 10 wide, the 789 may have a very small business and PE section, large
122 koruman : I'm going to horrify Kaiarahi by saying that I love the Premium Economy SpaceSeat, or whatever it's called. I find the 2-2-2 configuration on a 77W i
123 mariner : I think if it wasn't making money for Air NZ it would have gone. Why? Hawaiian coming to NZ was close to inevitable, no matter what Air NZ had done.
124 cchan : From what I have read in these threads so far, it seems NZ is going to put the 789 on markets with lots of package tourists, backpackers etc who don'
125 koruman : You will recall that when Air Australia failed I wrote that I thought that Air NZ had a great opportunity to make HNL a profit centre by rotating 763
126 mariner : I think it is both. I think it is a business whose primary function is to fly Kiwis where they want to go - and where they can afford to go - and to
127 aerorobnz : I think you can safely assume that the NG product on the 77E/789 will be different from anything already offered - otherwise the refit config wouldn'
128 koruman : I've never been one for original thought. The idea of the triangle AKL-Australia-Honolulu-AKL route actually came from another senior Air NZ employee
129 koruman : Now I'm stumped again. I had thought that the 744s would exit the fleet, but that the 763s would carry on, perhaps with the 789 interior. This would
130 aerorobnz : Indeed. I for one would rather relax in the Philippines than Hawaii, or any of the islands in the South Pacific. I have several trips planned there i
131 kiwiflyer791 : HNL has always been a 767 market, the 77E has only ever serviced this route while covering for maintenance on the 767 fleet, this is the only reason y
132 Post contains images zkojq : When is the first 777-200ER due to begin its refurbishment? Do we know which specific aircraft will undergo the conversion first? I assume this means
133 777ER : Yes the market certainly does talk in regards to S2S. When you have passengers who are wanting a meal and baggage included and can get that service o
134 sunrisevalley : I guess there is still plenty of time ( ~ 18-months) for the FAA to grant the 77E EDTO-330minutes.
135 Kaiarahi : To be honest, I haven't flown it since 2011 (before the pitch was increased), but I wasn't a fan of the sliding seat. If I take NZ PE these days, I g
136 mariner : The risk? I've no idea if there is "a risk" or not. There are any number of things that Air NZ could do that may not - or may - be risky. Whether the
137 koruman : I think that you have a bit too much deference for these people. Air NZ has replaced a failed TV executive with a former soap salesman as CEO. Neithe
138 Post contains images mariner : I think you're throwing words around. I have respect for anyone whom I think is doing a good job, no matter how much, or how little, their ideas equa
139 koruman : I hate agreeing with Mariner. It takes all the fun away. But I do half-agree with him about Seats To Suit. I love the a la carte model when it include
140 aerorobnz : I have already heard for multiple sources rumours that the skycouchs won't be on the 787. I'd like to think it was because they were adopting the 2-4
141 mariner : Or it may be the changing nature of the market. I recall the shock/horror we all felt (I was in Australia then) in the mid-1970's when the airlines s
142 koruman : I actually agree with you. But as I flagged earlier, what I don't understand is this: Why did the airline say "not enough people are buying $850 each
143 xiaotung : If you were buying Seats to Suit at the last minute you would absolutely hate it. Explain to me why a $900 full Y fare from AKL to SYD one-way doesn'
144 koruman : Mariner, my respect for Singapore Airlines' management evaporated when they were thoroughly outflanked and outlobbied by Qantas as Air New Zealand so
145 mariner : I can't explain it, I've never had that problem. I use Works de Luxe and I don't fly when it isn't available. I had a couple of problems with Virgin
146 koruman : Oh Mariner, You really do have a certain "je ne sais quoi", as Basil Fawlty said to Lord Melbury. Everyone else buys Works Deluxe like a Burger Delux
147 CHCalfonzo : With CZ announcing that they will send an A380 to SYD from October this year, freeing an A330 and with the imminent arrival of their first 787 by the
148 Post contains links mariner : You and your trendy Americanisms. Isn't it enough I have to put up with the so-coy "rest rooms" on aircraft these days? Because three is only two? I'
149 deconz : but it does! Fare basis YWRKNF is $885 (online $875) plus $65.53 taxes and the next down BWRKNF is $ 715 (online $705) plus taxes. "WRK" denotes The
150 nz2 : I work running ships between NZ and AU and the Pacific/Asia region. The biggest issue is to try to omit the low yielding leg from AU to NZ and we oft
151 Post contains images mariner : Nope. I don't care who I sit next to. I was making the point that the empty seat happens on Works de Luxe. As you say, my prerogative. It is simple f
152 777ER : I havn't read anything that says CZ are launching CHC, all I've read is CZ is considering both WLG and CHC. Could you please provide a link to the ar
153 xiaotung : AKL-SYD is $880 (all in) oneway Seat Only! That's effectively full Y fare. I am not 100% sure how the fare basis work but you get my point. Just did a
154 MillwallSean : What I don't get with this discussion about fares is why anyone that's a gold or higher would be booking their own tickets? and researching all this?
155 koruman : Sean, I think you've been in Asia too long. Try Australia! I don't know where to start with your generalisations really. I'm an elite tier frequent fl
156 MillwallSean : Koruman I fully understand that a contractor is careful with his/hers travel arrangements. Makes full sense. You plan your travel to maximise yours an
157 koruman : Great post Sean. I can only speak for Australia nowadays with regard to corporate travel. What I would say is that Qantas Travel and FCM have pretty d
158 Post contains links gasman : It was precisely this mentality that lead the outfit I work for to ditch the requirement to use the corporate travel agent. They gave us crap, surly
159 nz2 : I flew them to BA last September for the All Black test. Being a party of 12 mates we flew economy which is my only private trip down the back some q
160 Post contains images mariner : You might have just tipped me over the edge for my next trip to Oz - at least, back from Oz. I wasn't planning to fly into SYD but I could really use
161 MillwallSean : I maybe wasn't clear enough in my post but using Orbit or FCM is using a travelagent, just what I mentioned reduces productivity in just the same way
162 koruman : I suspect that what we see in both New Zealand and Australia is one or two dominant airlines using their market power to position their own subsidiar
163 NZ107 : Yep.. That ex-AKL sector was horrible! Now I just hope that their 787s are timed better! Though just be aware of their on-time performance.. My secto
164 mariner : Not a problem for me. I enjoy it when things go wrong, it's all part of the game of travel. mariner
165 Kaiarahi : I'm in the same situation (consultant) as Koruman. Apart from the big firms (PwC, KPMG, etc), it's rare to find EAs (PAs) in the consulting industry.
166 sunrisevalley : I am thinking about a trip from YVR/SFO/LAX -AKL and return . I will get a separate ticket from YXU/YYZ or DTW. How do I find the best deal on line ?
167 777ER : Takes time but checking all the airlines web-sites I've found gets the best prices/schedules. I've just booked a rental car in DTW for two weeks in J
168 aerorobnz : Have flown LA many times within Latin America and will likely fly them again, but they are definitely variable. Worth a punt, similar to QF in somewa
169 Post contains links and images Palmyboy12 : I've actually done the 6am flight ex AKL before - had to escort my grandma to SYD for a connecting flight to KUL (D7 223 which departs at 10.55am) Fl
170 NZ107 : Unless you go in Dec or Jan and the sun rises before you've left the gate at AKL. The sunrise is no different to one on any other leg such as AKL-LAX
171 Palmyboy12 : Well....sadly I haven't got the privilege to fly AKL-LAX yet....I went in June so I guess I was pretty lucky. Anyway as I don't do too much flying it
172 Post contains images mariner : Oh, I'm already hooked. What has held me back (in this case) has been that my destination is the northern NSW coast, so I had been planning to use BN
173 koruman : Mariner, If you're coming to northern NSW, why not be boring and fly to OOL? A flight from AKL to SYD can't be that Latin an experience. And if I'm no
174 Post contains images mariner : Two birds, one stone, K'man. I have chums outside Brisbane (north) that I would visit if I fly into BNE. But I also have old chums in Sydney that I w
175 gasman : Good choice. Any widebody - even if operated by Garuda - probably beats the experience of an NZ A320. And everyone should do the Trans tasman experie
176 Post contains images NZ107 : Don't forget CI flies A333s 3x weekly from BNE.. But anyway, BNE seems to get 2x NZ 777s on most days from AKL. You can still do that on CX for the n
177 koruman : Air NZ is going to have to reverse the use of Seats To Suit to Denpasar, Honolulu and Papeete. The a la carte model targets price-sensitive infrequent
178 alangirvan : Regarding the discussion in the Australian thread about the EK A380 possibly starting to BNE in Oct, would that be the flight that continues to AKL or
179 NZ107 : Yes, because that's the only nonstop flight DXB-BNE IIRC.. The other one goes through SIN. There was talk about this some weeks ago and about how AKL
180 cchan : Precisely the reason why I have chosen NZ for all my AKL-HKG-AKL travel for the past 15 years, at least I get a decent takeoff on the 767 and 777. We
181 NZ107 : I wasn't criticizing the A340.. I always have a 77W to make up for it for the leg to Europe/USA anyway so I'm not bothered by it. All I'm bothered ab
182 cchan : Haven't tried them but I have seen a lot of negative comments about them that I am not interested to try them Tried this once on NZ 77W on AKL-HKG 01
183 NZ107 : The thing is that I'm an elite CX member so the odd op-ups occur when I fly CX. No chance for that when flying on NZ metal. So maybe I'll just try fl
184 cchan : Well, in that case, I guess unless you are prepared to pay more to go on Y+, you will have to put up with those shell seats till the A350s are delive
185 Post contains images ZKOJH : Now that we see Garuda are eager to start a Bali-AKL service no doubt on an A332, and there enter into 'SKYTEAM' it seems a dream that NZ can even mak
186 777ER : Have I missed something about Garuda starting Bali-AKL?
187 aerorobnz : I thought from the earlier press release posted a while ago that GA had been looking at CGK-AKL with 332. That makes sense both as feed to their new
188 Post contains links ZKOJH : the information comes from http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-n...581-garuda-announces-bali-akl.html and http://centreforaviation.com/news/ga...te-exp
189 777ER : Interesting is an under statement right now! wasn't expecting DPS but certainly was expecting CGK. Will be interesting to see how NZ handles another
190 sunrisevalley : who do you expect to see come into the LAX/SFO-AKL market ? Perhaps DL or US/AA ?
191 aerorobnz : The current rumour, and therefore wet dream of many here is that EK want QF as part of their alliance to use an A380 AKL-LAX. If on the other hand a
192 ZKSUJ : Maybe JQ with the 332?
193 sunrisevalley : QF gave it away with the 332. I have trouble trying to figure out how JQ has a significantly lower cost structure than QF mainline.
194 alangirvan : Noting the thread about Boeing granting authority to offer the 777X to airlines (not quite a launch) I wonder which models will appeal to AirNZ - the
195 Post contains links NZ1 : Interesting times in the Air NZ Hangar. There have been rumours floating around for a while, but looks like there are plans of some sort to outsource
196 NZ107 : Or I just fly through SYD..
197 Post contains images ZKEOJ : Just like LH....
198 Post contains links and images zkojq : And here is ZK-MVC... ZK-MVC Air New Zealand Link (Mount Cook Airlines) ATR 72-600 - cn 1084 by Flox Papa, on Flickr
199 ZKOJH : NZ1 - didn't they outsource 'D Checks' from the ANZES at AKL to Asia a couple of years ago with some job losses? whats going now? 'C' Checks too?? So
200 ZKSUJ : Quite sad seeing the black tail on there. Wish they would hurry up and make a decision if they should to go ahead with it or not
201 ZKOJH : are they trying to go head to head with Fiji airways and the new A332's ?? think a lot of it is demand over Xmas..Nice to see 3 different types of A/C
202 Post contains images mariner : I don't often complain about airline liveries = but I really, really dislike this one. Email to Air NZ expressing that dislike already sent. mariner
203 ZKSUJ : No reply I bet
204 Post contains images mariner : I'll give 'em a day or two. mariner
205 Mr AirNZ : I don't mind the new livery. I'd describe it as 'crisp and minimalistic.' I also think it looks better in person.
206 Post contains images zkojq : ZK-OKC had an engine shutdown just before descending into Vancouver on April 26th. Its return to Auckland was delayed by a day, probably due to an eng
207 timpdx : I am booked to go LAX o RAR in a couple of days, I noticed the equip. Is a 767. I could have sworn I read here that NZ was done with the 767. Not that
208 777ER : I would give NZ a few weeks to reply judging by how long it took them to reply to a massive complement over a medical emergency on NZ7 (SFO-AKL) in 2
209 ZKSUJ : 767's have a few more years left in them. They are not going anywhere in the immediate future
210 cchan : Any idea how many 77E will be replaced by 789? NZ has 10x 789 on order, 5x 763 to be replaced. 5x 789 seems a lot for "growth".
211 sunrisevalley : A way back when, part of the 77E fleet ( I think 4 ) were on relatively short term leases. Those had to be extended because of the 789 delays . Wheth
212 777ER : I'm not able to answer that as all I know is the B763 fleet will be replaced by the 789s. With 10x 789s on order NZ have three options: 1) Future gro
213 777ER : I thought NZ was giving every 772 an interior upgrade shortly? If thats the case then doesn't that mean the 772s are staying?
214 sunrisevalley : True, but alternatively if some of them go in about 2017 , and for fleet commonality, it is perhaps good sense to do the upgrade.
215 777ER : True. Personally I hope the leased 772s stay longer to enable NZ to expand to a few more destinations
216 Post contains links cchan : As this thread is getting quite long, please continue the discussion in New Zealand Aviation Thread Part 127 (by cchan May 4 2013 in Civil Aviation) T
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