mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 23863 posts, RR: 87 Reply 1, posted (7 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 13104 times:
There was some confusion about the city pairs in the code share with Turkish Airlines, so here is the full list, from the filing:
Operated by Turkish Airlines (TK/NZ*)
Istanbul - Los Angeles
Istanbul - London (LHR)
Istanbul - Ankara
Istanbul - Hong Kong
Operated by Air New Zealand (NZ/TK*)
Los Angeles - London (LHR)
Los Angeles - Auckland
Auckland - Brisbane
Auckland - Hong Kong
Auckland - Sydney
Auckland - Melbourne
Auckland - Wellington
Auckland - Christchurch
Auckland - Queenstown
Wellington - Sydney
Wellington - Melbourne
Christchurch - Brisbane
Christchurch - Sydney
Christchurch - Melbourne
At the risk of repeating myself, this pleases me on many levels, not all of them directly aviation related. I think it is great that it will be in place in good time for 1915, the centenary of Gallipolli.
koruman From Australia, joined Feb 2006, 3254 posts, RR: 5 Reply 2, posted (7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12997 times:
I don't share the enthusiasm shown for two issues late in the last thread.
Firstly, while I am fiercely proud of the decision to legalise gay marriage, I don't think that it will really affect Air New Zealand or New Zealand aviation at all. It's marvellous, but I can't see an impact, sorry.
Secondly, I don't see the relevance of the Turkish Airlines codeshare. TK is an excellent carrier, but who is this codeshare supposed to serve?
Which TK passengers could conceivably find themselves on NZ metal who wouldn't otherwise, or indeed vice versa?
In Mariner's example, surely anyone going to Gallipoli would fly 1-stop from New Zealand on Emirates rather than flying Air NZ to London and then backtracking on Turkish Airlines to London? I suppose that there could be a transfer at Hong Kong, but all the same, it's not exactly a big market.
I'm glad to see that under Luxon there appears to be some thought about where the airline is going. But many of the missed opportunities are much closer to home.
Why aren't people incensed that Air NZ has restricted AKL-HNL to twice weekly (and occasionally 3 x weekly) when now Hawaiian has added three weekly frequencies and we can all see that there was demand for 5x weekly all along, but NZ was deliberately charging inflated fares and restricting supply?
The Honolulu case is really scandalous, an example of how an airline can abuse a market monopoly to maximise yields but minimise volumes, yet end up inflicting self-harm upon itself.
If Air NZ had kept its lounge and kept 5 to 7 weekly frequencies at sensible prices they might now dominate Honolulu's markets from not just NZ but also BNE, SYD and MEL.
Even now, with Seats To Suit, AKL-HNL fare levels in both classes on Air NZ are around 40% higher than on the equivalent SYD-HNL flight, even when corrected for distance. I suspect that the bloated yields of the last ten years have been economically insignificant compared with the missed opportunity to sell 1200 seats per week instead of 500.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 23863 posts, RR: 87 Reply 3, posted (7 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 12980 times:
Quoting koruman (Reply 2): Firstly, while I am fiercely proud of the decision to legalise gay marriage, I don't think that it will really affect Air New Zealand or New Zealand aviation at all. It's marvellous, but I can't see an impact, sorry.
Whether it does or it doesn't, it's created headlines, which is half of the battle:
But I worry that you put words in my mouth, Koruman:
Quoting koruman (Reply 2): In Mariner's example, surely anyone going to Gallipoli would fly 1-stop from New Zealand on Emirates rather than flying Air NZ to London and then backtracking on Turkish Airlines to London? I suppose that there could be a transfer at Hong Kong, but all the same, it's not exactly a big market
I didn't claim it was a big market. It is some market, but I said that my comments about Gallipoli were not all aviation related:
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6720 posts, RR: 13 Reply 5, posted (7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12796 times:
Quoting cchan (Reply 4): I wonder what AKL-RAR-LAX and AKL-RAR-SYD will be operated with after the 763s retire. Seems a waste to put the new 789 on these routes, but 772 maybe too big?
the question remains whether Christopher will maintain the RAR-LAX sector in the future, especially if the best aircraft for the job is not going to remain in the fleet. Even with the the 763 still in the fleet, if say CHC-PER proves to be a hit I could see the frequency increase coming from the RAR-LAX service.
RAR-SYD can be operated with whatever aircraft type is the ground spare easily enough - the rotation can pretty much be completed in 24h, it's the AKL-RAR-LAX-RAR-AKL flight which takes a plane out of action for around 40h and is harder to schedule..
cchan From New Zealand, joined May 2003, 1744 posts, RR: 2 Reply 6, posted (7 months 2 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 12765 times:
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 5): the question remains whether Christopher will maintain the RAR-LAX sector in the future, especially if the best aircraft for the job is not going to remain in the fleet. Even with the the 763 still in the fleet, if say CHC-PER proves to be a hit I could see the frequency increase coming from the RAR-LAX service.
From memory, RAR-LAX is sustained by an agreement / contract with the Cook Islands government. Any idea when does that agreement expires?
ZKOJH From China, joined Sep 2004, 1571 posts, RR: 1 Reply 7, posted (7 months 2 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 12682 times:
''Air NZ's trans-Pacific flight plans hit bump''
Air New Zealand's trans-Pacific plans for operating Boeing 787 Dreamliners have hit a major problem with an announcement in Washington that rules over how far they can fly from an airport are unlikely to be extended.
As the rule for Extended Twin-engine Operations (ETOPS) now stands, Air New Zealand will not be able to fly its new Dreamliners direct from Auckland to the United States or Canada without a stop or a significant route change.
Under ETOPS, twin-engine planes must always be within 180 minutes' flight of an airport when flying on a single engine in an emergency.
Boeing sold the troubled aircraft on the basis that ETOPS would be changed to 330 minutes.
But today the US Federal Aviation Agency (FAA) chief Michael Huerta told a Senate hearing in Washington that the authority was going to further restrict the ETOPS rule.
kiwirob From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 6024 posts, RR: 3 Reply 9, posted (7 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 12641 times:
Quoting mariner (Reply 1): I think it is great that it will be in place in good time for 1915, the centenary of Gallipolli.
Except for the fact that the number of Kiwis allowed to go to Gallipoli for ANZAC Day has been significantly reduced, it was capped at 2000, whereas the Aussies get 8000 places. So really there won't be that much demand.
mariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 23863 posts, RR: 87 Reply 10, posted (7 months 2 weeks 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 12594 times:
Quoting kiwirob (Reply 9): Except for the fact that the number of Kiwis allowed to go to Gallipoli for ANZAC Day has been significantly reduced, it was capped at 2000, whereas the Aussies get 8000 places. So really there won't be that much demand.
As I tried to explain to Koruman, I am more concerned with the symbolic significance of it. As in:
Be careful of quoting the media direct as they often get- it-wrong!
This article is plainly incorrect. Air New Zealand currently conducts EDTO 180 minute operations on all its current Pacific and Asia routes. In fact EDTO 240 minute operations are about to commence for the 777-300 operation, however looking at the current route structure and expedited cruise winds, do not expect to see EDTO 240 used very often at all.
How anyone can portray EDTO 180 for the 787 as being short term problem for the airline is beyond me........
aerorobnz From Rwanda, joined Feb 2001, 6720 posts, RR: 13 Reply 14, posted (7 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 12252 times:
Quoting cchan (Reply 6): Any idea when does that agreement expires?
I recall it being renegotiated about the same time NZ18 stopped being RAR-PPT-LAX. If it's up for renewal about the same time as the 763s are supposed to go then they may have to offer a great incentive to maintain NZ. I recall last time that there were problems even getting the Cooks to pay what they are paying.
I'm not sure why these were removed. The LAX AKL flight you referred to definitely used EDTO 240, as did the AKL GRU AKL flight.
There were a few final issues to resolve before the airline put EDTO 240 into regular use. One of these was some additional software onboard to help crew monitor for fuel leakage at a supply and engine level. This software is now aboard and the crew have been instructed how to use this.
So use of this new capability will occur on a more regular basis from this point on. However, unless one of the en-route alternates is unavailable for some reason (like weather), it won't be used that often. Also, the Tahitians have a very expensive charging schedule for use of their airspace which ensures Air New Zealand doesn't often plan flights into their airspace, as the cost benefit equation doesn't often stack up.
Is there anywhere that this flight plan could be accessed? Since IPC is so critical to this route is the weather predictable enough to be able to stick to a schedule most days? Is IPC a 24/7 airport and also what CAT level are the landing aids if any?
Yes same here. I thought it was almost an acknowledgement of the fact there is some serious issues with the loyalty program and I did use some of the examples Koruman has put forward over the last year or two. Hopefully it will have the effect of swinging the weighting back to actual flying instead of retail purchases. I beleive a good move by Luxon, even giving the direct email of the program head (forget the name) so it appears to be a move to be more engaging with top tier customers
Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 14): I recall last time that there were problems even getting the Cooks to pay what they are paying.
I may well have a befuddled memory, but I seem to recall the New Zealand Govt. coming to the party in the guise of NZAid, thus enabling the Govt. of The Cooks to recommit to the flight, unlike the Govt. of Samoa when its Tongan counterpart pulled out of their JV.
A debate which surfaces every now and then. The answer is, in fact, peace.
I gave them my $0.02 worth too. The airpoints scheme for me is all about status credits to maintain NZ *G. And as soon as EK/QF return to AKL-LAX, it's all over for me and Air NZ. Had enough of the overpriced fares and progressively less comfortable inflight product. It could well be that the high-density 77W, and ratty little A320s on the Tasman are appropriate for the market as a whole - but sorry, it isn't for me.
aotearoa From New Zealand, joined May 2005, 103 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (7 months 2 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 11822 times:
My apologies. My earlier post referred to the AKL GRU AKL flight, clearly I need to not try and remember IATA airport codes from memory....I really meant to refer to the AKL EZE AKL flight!
In response to the question on the use of Easter Island, yes it is a critical part of the EDTO operation if one wants to operate anywhere close to the GC route.
Please refer to the two thumbnails above from GC Mapper. One shows EDTO 240 and the other EDTO 330. Clearly the EDTO 330 is the way to go in terms of route flexibility. I'm not sure when ANZ intends to apply for this approval.
Easter Island has some key restrictions, one being apron space. I believe this needs to be 'booked' to cover the extremely remote case of an en-route diversion. It's reasonably served with approach aids; an ILS at one end plus an RNAV approach, VOR and NDB approaches on the other end. I'm unfamiliar with the weather patterns.
25 motorhussy: Gosh, hadn't thought of that. EK will soon have RTW capability if they do this.
26 ZKSUJ: Yea Long haul will be operated by 1 set of crew (777 and 747) while Taspac will be operated by another set (320, 767, 787). Thought it was a bit stra
27 777ER: What I got from that article is that the B767 is the only aircraft (at this stage) in the fleet thats having reduced crewing and the A320/B787/B767 h
28 ZKEOJ: Re the NZ Airpoints programme: When living in Canada I was UA Premier Executive and really liked it. I was contemplating going back, but now hey have
29 gasman: And therin lies the issue. While EK isn't anything like the airline it's cracked up to be, it does have quite a generous loyalty program. If QF or EK
30 NZ107: That basically shows you what their intentions are.. That the 763 and 789 will be the plane of choice to these places. Reduced crewing in terms of pe
31 gasman: definitely - although you can't imagine it'll be long before the rest of the Star network puts pressure on A3 to close this little loophole.
32 NZ107: But in saying that, if you get it now, you've got it for 2 years - they're highly unlikely to revoke membership or that'd cause an exodus. So in esse
33 aerorobnz: Sure, there are plenty - but if it isn't a problem for A3, then it shouldn't be a problem for Star. Remember by having so many members who have never
34 NZ107: The point I wanted to get to was the fact that they could make a little bit off these people themselves and maybe even help the Greek economy... But
35 xiaotung: Funnily the most recent Airpoints update had the following regarding Star Gold benefits: With Star Alliance Gold Status you can enjoy additional comf
36 zkojq: A few things that have got me thinking... Air New Zealand's next Airbus A320 has been assigned a serial number! The aircraft will apparently be ZK-OJT
37 Kaiarahi: It took 55 years, but I gave up on them last year. If you buy a flight with a N. American connection from NZ, you'll pay more than double for the con
38 aerokiwi: Good. Glad to see they're going to address their cost base. This I did not know. Funny the things you learn, and where you learn them
39 KarelXWB: Correct, ZK-OJT will not have sharklets.
40 PA515: Planespotters has ZK-OJT while ATDB has ZK-OXA. E-mailed planespotters two days ago but no reply so far. Possibly both. NGE had a test flight on 15 A
41 zkojq: That is unfortunate. I was rather hoping that I was wrong. NZ1's most recent post on fleet deliveries has -OXA due to being delivered in June. Howeve
42 KarelXWB: I also took a look in the ATDB, it says: - MSN5629: ZK-OXA, 06/13 - MSN5682: ZK-???, 07/13 - MSN5847: ZK-???, 11/13 All with sharklets. So who has it
43 aotearoa: I believe there was some discussion around ZK-OAB being re-registered with an OJ series tail number. Maybe this is OJT? However this doesn't make much
44 KarelXWB: Thanks, case solved. Planespotters is having it wrong.
45 aotearoa: Just took a look at Planespotters. It's a simple case of the wrong rego for MSN 5629. This frame is ZK-OXA, the sharklet equipped domestic aircraft.
46 NZ107: Makes me wonder if they still offer the original wingtip for sale.. But can't wait to see the sharkletted A320 and also what livery it will carry! Or
47 zkojq: Also, ZK-MVC is due to be delivered anytime soon. I'm going to search around for some photos of in in Toulouse. It should be out of the factory by now
48 NZ107: I suppose so.. Though it can't be that significant, surely? Especially seeing that the sharklets are smaller than the blended winglets too- thus prob
49 Mr AirNZ: It's just a change of whose doing the flying. The change relates to cabin crew with the aircraft to be crewed by Taspac (A320 international Flight At
50 zkojq: Agreed. Production constraints likely have something to do with it also. 42 A320s per month means 84 sharklets per month for the manufacturer (Korean
51 Mr AirNZ: I've seen a photo. Looked pretty black to me sorry.
52 NZ107: Air NZ improves ground experience at LAX Looks like good news for passengers on NZ1/2 transiting at LAX.. Sounds like the end of the holding pen. Let'
53 BonzoLab: MVC suffered damage on the production line, and acceptance by Air NZ was initially refused until repairs were made. In service here mid-May.
54 gasman: Here's hoping the TE901 episode will be balanced - and not yet another regurgitation of the facile views of Holmes and Mahon.
55 777ER: Could this see a launch of an international LCC flying for NZ to better compete against the likes of JQ? What routes will the B763s fly? NZ1, is ther
56 NZ107: What competition from JQ? Reports are that their AKL-SIN route is not doing that well.. So there's no other JQ route to be 'competing against'. And i
57 NZ1: No further updates yet sorry. NGE is slated to head to an airline in Africa. Two more aircraft to follow. It's not a done deal yet, but that is the c
58 ZKOJH: some news today, feeding thru the email's the new 77W's will be used on the SFO next year, (which will speed up the retirement of the 744's - ''Los An
59 Mr AirNZ: Not the plan. JQ are likely to announce soon the cancellation of the AKL-SIN route so as NZ107 says, what competition? The 767s (and then 787s) will
60 777ER: I wasn't aware JQs AKL-SIN route wasn't performing well. What competition? JQ is a threat that NZ can't ignore. JQ can easily launch routes from AKL
61 aerorobnz: As I said from the beginning. the 77W was never going to be a new unproven routes. no. the US is firmly 77W territory. YVR definitely 77E territory.
62 NZ107: Of course they can easily launch routes from AKL. Doesn't mean they'll succeed. If they can't get SIN to work, where will they get to work? Japan? NZ
63 Mr AirNZ: There is plenty of international competition from New Zealand. It just isn't really in the low cost form of Jetstar. There a murmurings from a wide v
64 777ER: So no new USA routes opening with 787s? NZ was previously saying the new 787 would open/enable new North American destinations (IAH, ORD, JFK/EWR as
65 aerorobnz: I believe if there were viable options, JQ would have been far more aggressively expanding NZL services. I think you underestimate NZ a little here,
66 NZ107: It seems to be the goal of every NZ CEO to drive competitors to the corner - It didn't take long for Freedom Air to rampage all over Kiwi Air. Ok, le
67 zkojq: Grrrrr. Thanks for the info anyway. I hope she gets fixed up satisfactorily. Thanks for sharing. Agreed, though realistically in a one hour episode t
68 PA515: After ZK-MVD arrives in September: NPL-CHC gets twice daily DHC's eff. 14 Oct. NPL will have three overnighting DHC's. NPL-CHC 0640/0805 NPL-AKL 0650/
69 Mr AirNZ: Most of the time there is one (and often one of each) out for heavy maintenance.
70 alangirvan: JQ could be a different proposition when the 787s are in the fleet, when the airline knows what range they will get out of the planes. If the planes w
71 sunrisevalley: Has this been announced ? If not are there any intelligent guess/estimates? This leaves the 77E for South America. Nobody that I have contacted that
72 sunrisevalley: That is known now within a per cent or two. The 789 in 280-seat configuration will haul ~43t from LAX-AKL based on a 12hr 30m segment. The fuel burn
73 aerorobnz: not officially, it's rather hush-hush within the company but yes I have heard rumour of what it may be... GRU/GIG are out of the running but that doe
74 aerorobnz: HKT charter is now a 77E rather than a 744...obviously not so popular
75 NZ107: Jetstar pilots complain of lasers No laughing matter.. But is the media trying to make the police look stupid? A Jetstar 737? Not that I ever expected
76 koruman: HKT charter? 744 or 77E? Please, please tell me that Air New Zealand wasn't thinking of market-testing Phuket. They already serve plenty of idyllic is
77 mariner: As you might guess, I'm rather hoping they do. If that's where Kiwis want to go, why not fly there. mariner[Edited 2013-04-23 00:03:07]
78 koruman: Yes Mariner, I thought you might, but I suspect that secretly you're hoping that Air NZ will collapse so totally that it becomes a subsidiary of Fron
79 mariner: That isn't my wish for either airline, but I can't stop you making assumptions. But you live in more affluent Australia, you spend up big on air trav
80 koruman: Believe it or not, me too. Lion Air's entry into Australia ain't going to happen. If a nimble airline hubs narrowbody aircraft at Darwin or Broome th
81 mariner: At last - we agree. I'd add a few to that list from DRW - Kota Kinabalu, Langkawi, Lombok, even Balikpapan with the feed they'd get from Australia. B
82 ZKSUJ: It is not laughing matter, yet look what happened to the last guy who got caught shining lasers into aircraft. He got a few hours community service a
83 gasman: Do you think this might in fact become something of a self-fulfilling prophecy? If you provide, and market a LCC service you will end up attracting o
84 NZ107: Air NZ CEO dreams of flying first 787 to China Also implies that the 772 which goes to HKG will be put back on the PVG route... Effectively meaning th
85 xiaotung: Just read the article. I think it simply implies that the 772's going back to PVG are the same as those currently go to HKG. It doesn't mean these 77
86 mariner: Nope. I think the airline is responding to the market. I think that an airline flies (or should) where most of its passengers want to go at prices th
87 NZ107: So do they have spare 772 capacity to operate both PVG and HKG?
88 xiaotung: Not an expert on aircraft usage but yes it was 3 x 777 and 4 x 767 a week a few months ago before they moved to daily 767. So this simply moves back
89 koruman: Sounds like an admission of failure with respect to Honolulu. Air NZ had a monopoly, and restricted themselves to 2-3x weekly 763s without lie-flat be
90 PA515: Or perhaps he meant the HKG-LHR-HKG aircraft is now used on PVG. And that goes to 4 x 772 and 3 x 767 from Dec. Europe seems doubtful now. The previo
91 xiaotung: Interesting you should mention that. NZ really need to revisit the S2S model particularly on these island long haul routes. VA recently announced tha
92 mariner: The code share application - Air NZ/Turkish - has been approved by the US DOT. Here's the page - click on the pdf icon to view the ruling: http://www
93 mariner: Some very good numbers coming out of Air New Zealand for March: http://media.nzherald.co.nz/webcontent/document/pdf/201317/airnz.pdf "Air New Zealand
94 ZK-NBT: 772s are currently doing up to 5 weekly of the daily SFO services, that's where the 772s will come from to increase 772s to PVG again as the 744s go
95 aerorobnz: the days of the 744 are now well and truly numbered. They'll be lucky to see out the end of next year I think. Once the 2 extra 77Ws arrive they will
96 ZKOJH: Should NZ be worried !! that BA are going to put 2 A380's on the LHR-LAX ROUTE over the next year, seems to ring bell's when the announced the A380 on
97 Kaiarahi: Still by far the best PE in the fleet - especially the main deck.
98 sunrisevalley: How will NZ deploy 7- 77W's ? Three AKL-LHR -AKL , three on NZ5/6/7/8 and AKL-MEL/BNE-AKL most days plus a spare ??
99 PA515: Air NZ will need all seven 77W's most of the time. Three on NZ2/NZ1 AKL-LAX-LHR-LAX-AKL Daily Two on NZ6/NZ5 AKL-LAX-AKL Daily ex Tu Two on NZ8/NZ7 A
100 sunrisevalley: For the sceptics ... This link shows ZB001 ( or ZK NZC ) in production. The action is starting ! http://www.flickr.com/photos/flightblogger/8679419302
101 777ER: Can't see any evidence (signage, posters etc) saying first B789? Does look longer but photos can make something look bigger
102 ZKSUJ: Still the best leg room in the fleet too. In Y class that is I'm wondering if Standbys had much to do with this increase. If so, what will the effect
103 ZKOJH: Air New Zealand NW13 Long-Haul Changes as of 25/04/2013 Auckland – Honolulu 19DEC13 – 16JAN14 Service increases from 3 to 4 weekly (Except 26DEC13
104 cchan: Interesting that AKL-HKG has no changes, the 772 still sits on the tarmac at HKG for 12+ hours each day. Wouldn't it be better if NZ80 leaves HKG a f
105 koruman: Once a year the Korufamily books an additional discretionary long-haul Premium Economy trip for a holiday where we can use our 2 (each) Gold Elite re
106 aerorobnz: Hawaiian loads have not been great so far - despite all the publicity... I don't think it's so clear cut as you like to convince yourself. Yes they a
107 ZK-NBT: HNL has never been a 772 in the NW, only NS. Pretty sure NRT was actually daily last NW. It could change yet plenty of time for that to happen but it
108 koruman: Good point, but it's hard to see how Air New Zealand can prevail now. If they use the 77E year round they can probably command higher yields but will
109 aotearoa: AKL HNL AKL looks to be a perfect fit-to-mission for the 787-9, especially in the proposed config. Perth also looks to be a better fit than the 777-20
110 ZKOJH: I've just been speaking with my friend who works in the ANZ Travel Center in Auckland, and I asked him about the 787 to PVG next year because i'm look