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Was The UA 752 SHot Down?  
User currently offlineIndianGuy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1464 times:

Not to flame anyone here, but on last nights news, it was mentioned in passing that pieces of the 752 that crashed in Pittsburgh were found 12 miles from the crash site. The rest of the wreckage was found in a concentrated area.

Just a thought: is it possible that pieces of the aircraft fell off because security agencies shot it down, and the crippled aircraft later crashed? By then it was pretty clear that it was headed towards Washington (so either the Senate bldg or the White House were the targets).

If the pax/crew grappled with the pilots, how could a part of the aircraft have separated 12 miles away?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineZbeeblebrox74 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1376 times:

Yep, that's a tough one to answer.

Look at another possibility. Could it be, that during a struggle on the flight deck a very abrupt flight-control movement was made at high speed, exceeding the design load limits of the airframe. (pure speculation, I do apologize) Partial structural failure may have been the result, maybe lost an engine, piece of the tail or part of a wing, flew for another 12 miles before impacting terrain out of control and near vertical. Again, I'm speculating and a proper investigation will bring better insight.

In the meantime, God rest the souls of all who perished on Tuesday.


User currently offlineJwenting From Netherlands, joined Apr 2001, 10213 posts, RR: 18
Reply 2, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1340 times:

No parts separated 12 miles away.
Ligth debris were swept up in the explosion and carried 8 miles (not 12) downwind. This is quite possible without any conspiracies.



I wish I were flying
User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1320 times:


I also think this might have happened. They probably were shot down to avoid even more serious damage.


User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1298 times:

I'm sorry, but our government would not shoot down an airliner in the middle of PA...particularly without warning.

At that point in the morning, no one knew what was going on...


User currently offlineAlpha 1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (13 years 1 week 4 days ago) and read 1277 times:

When I first heard of the plane going down in Pennsylvania, in the middle of nowhere, I thought it might have been shot down as well. I don't think it was now. I think the U.S. military wouldn't have had any assets in place that quickly to shoot down a plane relatively inland. I think there was a titanic struggle onboard between the passengers and these bastards who took over the aircraft.

User currently offlineSinlock From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1647 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1236 times:

This did not happen.

The FDR will prove that once and for all....



My Country can beat up your Country....
User currently offlineJiml1126 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1225 times:

The US Department of Defence didn't confirm this news. I saw the report 2-3 days ago.

User currently offlineSotomayor From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1212 times:

The FBI agent in charge at the sight of the crash is now explicitely denying that this plane was shot down. The 2 other debris fields found were downwind from the crash site and contained light material. The inference is that this material blew off to those spots.


sotomayor
User currently offlineB737-700 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1202 times:


I'm sure they would do it because it causes way less cusualities.
Also at that time the first tower had already collapsed afaik.
So there was good reason to shot it down.


User currently offlineAirbus380 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1200 times:

I have many connections. I know 100% that it was not shot down.

User currently offlineRedngold From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 6907 posts, RR: 44
Reply 11, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 1189 times:

NO it was not shot down, FOR THE LAST TIME!

redngold



Up, up and away!
User currently offlineLewis From Greece, joined Jul 1999, 3636 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1169 times:

It seems as if it was shot down. The debris that was found was small pieces scattered all ver the place. The air force had orders to shoot down al suspicious aircraft and at this time they would rather deny it in order to cause less pain. It is difficult for them to admit that they shot down an american aircraft.

User currently offlineN202PA From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1155 times:

I seriously doubt that it was shot down, although I think we have to consider all possibilities at this point.

The reason I don't think it was shot down is that if the government did so, why didn't they shoot down AA 77 before it hit the Pentagon? Certainly they must have had enough lead time between the WTC bombings and the news that a plane had deviated from its flight path and was turning back around to Washington. It was chaos that morning, and I don't think there was enough time or forethought that gave government officials the ability to make the decision to shoot down UA 93.

I'd believe this conspiracy theory more if the plane crashed closer to Washington, such as in Leesburg, Brunswick, Rockville, etc. But this was way out in the Pennsylvania countryside. If the thought of shooting it down as a dangerous target had come to the minds of government officials, surely they would have allowed it to get closer to Washington to determine its intentions. Southern Pennsylvania and Western Maryland are lightly populated areas. There was still time to make a shoot/no shoot decision.

I find it more likely that the terrorist pilot lost control of the aircraft at low altitude after a struggle between the passengers (already convinced that they were going to die) and the hijackers led to chaos in the cabin and flight deck. We have evidence to suggest this. Was there a bomb? We'll have to see what the investigation turns up.


User currently offlineGreg From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1144 times:

The US gov't would not shoot down an airliner without exhausting all other resources. The (the gov't) did not have a clue that the aircraft was hijacked at that point (remember...no transponder...).
If you all want to be alarmist, go ahead. But it sounds pretty ridiculous.



User currently offlineB727-231 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1116 times:

Didn't one of the "cell phone" calls mention a red box the terrorists claimed was a bomb?

If it was, perhaps they set it off, or it went off accidently in the struggle that brought the plane down. I haven't seen any reports as to WHAT kind of debris was found 6-8 miles away?

Makes sense to me....maybe somebody was trying to get a door open or something? Heck....have they even told us that much, yet?


User currently offlineLMML 14/32 From Malta, joined Jan 2001, 2565 posts, RR: 6
Reply 16, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1120 times:

Transponder or not, the blip is always there unless you are flying at tree top level. You might add that there are hundreds of light planes in the US skies that appear like that, but not at those speeds ! What about the nerve centre deep inside the Cheyenne mountain? The question is: Why were a B757 and B767 allowed to for 40 minutes perpendicular to their filed flight plan seemingly without drawing anybody's attention? The first impact on WTC should have alerted someone about the second plane approaching - 18 minutes later !


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6876 posts, RR: 75
Reply 17, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 1110 times:

Did the red box need to be a real bomb ? No... But then again, we wont know for a while...

Anyway, if it was shot down, maybe it was necessary (sadly)... if the pax tried to takeover the plane back from the hijackers (like the phonecall suggested), then may God bless the passengers !

Mandala499



When losing situational awareness, pray Cumulus Granitus isn't nearby !
User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3827 posts, RR: 33
Reply 18, posted (13 years 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 1066 times:

To be honest, I don't know if the plane was shot down or not, but for all of you who insist that it wasn't, would you mind explaining this news report from yesterday?This may be why IndianGuy asked the question in the first place

FBI Cannot Rule Out Shootdown of Penn. Plane
09/13/2001

SHANKSVILLE, Pa. (Reuters) - Federal investigators said on Thursday that they have not ruled out the possibility that United Airlines Flight 93 was shot down over Pennsylvania, after three other hijacked airliners crashed into the World Trade Center and the Pentagon (news - web sites).

As speculation about what happened aboard the Boeing 757 intensified, FBI (news - web sites) agent Bill Crowley told a news conference that it was too early in the crash investigation to rule out any possibility.

He declined to say whether evidence actually pointed to an explosion before the San Francisco-bound jetliner crashed 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh on Tuesday, killing 45 passengers and crew on board.

``We have not ruled out that. We haven´t ruled out anything yet,´´ Crowley said when asked about reports that a U.S. fighter jet may have fired on the hijacked airliner to prevent it from reaching a target, possibly in Washington.

His remark prompted deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz to say he would look into the matter. ``I have no information on it at all. In fact, that´s the first I heard, and I´m going to look into it,´´ Wolfowitz, the No. 2 Pentagon official, told a briefing.

Much of the mystery could be settled if investigators locate the plane's so-called black boxes, which could provide a tape-recorded account of what occurred inside the cockpit.

The plane had been en route to San Francisco from Newark, New Jersey, when it veered off course over northeastern Ohio and headed back southeast toward Pittsburgh. Crash investigators said it appeared to be moving in an ``easterly´´ direction when it plunged to earth.

The fact that Flight 93 was the only hijacked plane not to hit a U.S. landmark has brought growing speculation about how the aircraft and its occupants met their fate. The speculation has ranged from a struggle between passengers and hijackers to a bomb explosion.

PLAN TO OVERPOWER HIJACKERSSeveral passengers managed to telephone people on the ground to report the hijacking. Accounts described three hijackers claiming to have a bomb and a plan by passengers to overpower them. There were also reports that one man heard an explosion.

``If they are going to take the plane down, then we are going to have to do something,´´ Deena Burnett of San Ramon, California, quoted her husband as saying during a cellular phone conversation moments before the crash.

The Pennsylvania state police said debris from the crash has shown up about 8 miles away in a residential area where local media quoted some residents as seeing flaming debris from the sky.

But investigators were unwilling to say whether the presence of debris in two separate places evinced an explosion. State Police Major Lyle Szupinka said debris found in the residential area seemed small enough to have been carried by air currents after impact.

Meanwhile, scores of searchers in white or yellow protective overalls collected human remains for storage in a makeshift morgue and set aside piece of the shredded fuselage for forensic analysis as part of an on-site probe expected to take three to five weeks.

Much of the debris is said to be in small pieces, none larger than a briefcase so far.

A team of archeologists were also at work digging for evidence in a huge crater left by the plane's impact.

But officials said the main object of the investigation was to find the flight's voice and flight data recorders, which could prove instrumental to agents trying to unearth the identity of those behind Tuesday's the horrific attacks.

``We´re confident that we´re going to keep working on it and that we will account for it,´´ Crowley said. ``That´s the investigative priority right now.´´

Families of the victims were expected to begin arriving at the crash site outside tiny Shanksville, Pennsylvania, as early as Wednesday afternoon.

LoneStarMike

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