Total flights: 20
Total mainline: 13
Total regional: 7
Now looking at the data it is obvious that UA has more flights out of DFW that UA has at IAH, however the ratio between mainline and regional is different. Why is it that AA can sustain 6 daily mainline flights on the DFW-IAH route when UA can only support 1? I also noticed that the reason UA has more flights out of DFW than AA has from IAH is because UA has more hubs than AA. Could that be the reason why AA has more mainline at IAH due to less amount of hubs to funnel passengers?
LHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1767 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 12127 times:
Quoting avi8 (Thread starter): Now looking at the data it is obvious that UA has more flights out of DFW that UA has at IAH, however the ratio between mainline and regional is different. Why is it that AA can sustain 6 daily mainline flights on the DFW-IAH route when UA can only support 1? I also noticed that the reason UA has more flights out of DFW than AA has from IAH is because UA has more hubs than AA. Could that be the reason why AA has more mainline at IAH due to less amount of hubs to funnel passengers?
Offhand I'd say that explains at least part of it -- probably not all, but at least some. On IAH-DFW for instance, UA has decided to go for frequency rather than mainline flights (as we often see these days) so it's not unthinkable that they would put less mainline here, but OTOH they offer total fewer daily seats (not to mention fewer F seats) as well.
So I think you're seeing comparative advantage at play here, where each is leveraging what it perceives as strengths and/or routes of emphasis (some routes will always be more important to you than others).
avi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 771 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11939 times:
I'm sorry I did not make myself clear. I was actually referring to the amount of mainline flights and the fact that even though UA has more destinations out of DFW, AA isn't that far behind at IAH with the majority of the flights being mainline. My theory lies in that AA has fewer hubs to funnel passengers through so that could be the reason for more mainline flying. I wanted to see your opinions.
PHXFlyer16 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 48 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11899 times:
Quoting avi8 (Thread starter):
So I was looking at the number of flights that each offered and noticed that AA has a much larger presence at a UA fortress hub when compared to UA's presence at DFW. Why is that?
I think the answers is pretty simple: UA has more hubs right now that AA. Once AA and US merge there will be flights to PHX, PHL, CLT and potentially DCA (i'm not sure about perimeter and slots though).
Thus, UA likely has a larger presence is most major cities because they have more hubs to fly to. This will change shortly.
mesaflyguy From United States of America, joined Dec 2012, 3692 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 11852 times:
What you're saying make no sense, as UA at DFW is larger than AA at IAH. But, even if your premise was correct, you would have to look at individual market size and brand loyalty in their respective markets. Plus, you have to look at which point of sale each airline is looking at. Based on the amount of RJs on the AA routes, they seem to be focusing on more O&D while UA wants more connections.
Against popular belief, my username has nothing to do with the airline. \______(---)______/
Roseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 10390 posts, RR: 52
Reply 16, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11419 times:
Quoting avi8 (Thread starter): Why is it that AA can sustain 6 daily mainline flights on the DFW-IAH route when UA can only support 1?
One reason. southwest has over 25 daily HOU -DAL Flights. Both AA and UA lose money flying people between Houston and Dallas so both stay relatively small.
Also don't forget UA flies to DAL.
One final reason is the fleet planning at UA prior to the merger. UA dumped its 737 classics right after bankruptcy and outsourced the flying to E170 s andCR7s. UA had a shortage of Mainline narrow bodies. Even large airports in the center of the country went to mostly regional flying. Fortunately all the 737s that CO had and the new airplanes the airline is taking are helping bring mainline back to where it belongs.
[Edited 2013-04-21 13:20:49]
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
BA0197 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2011, 374 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11349 times:
First of all, your AA figures are wrong.
IAH-DFW: 8 times daily except weekends where there are 7. (S80)
IAH-MIA: 5 times daily (738)
IAH-ORD: 4 times daily except Saturdays where there are 3 (CR7) (switching to E75 on OCT 1)
IAH-LAX: 3 times daily (CR7)
IAH-JFK: 1 times daily (738)
Chicago and Los Angeles are with American Eagle. All other flights are mainline.
American Eagle also flies 8 times daily to HOU from DFW
This argument really has no standing, but I have found one thing quite interesting. On Dallas-UA hub routes, AA is larger than UA. eg: George Bush Intercontinental, Chicago, EWR, Los Angeles, DEN, all have a larger AA presence even though UA has hubs at the destination. I think this is due to UA reassures being too broad (ie too many hubs).
TWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2988 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11305 times:
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 16): Fortunately all the 737s that CO had and the new airplanes the airline is taking are helping bring mainline back to where it belongs.
I would love to see more mainline on DFW-IAH. It would be a lot easier for me to go home from college on the weekends than trying to squeeze in (literally and figuratively because I'm 6'2" and I nonrev!) on an RJ!
A landing EVERYONE can walk away from, is a good landing.
AAexecplat From United States of America, joined Sep 2009, 662 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11179 times:
The reason AA is flying more mainline is because their scope clause has been far more restricted than UA's. I have not done the math, but of you adjust the number of flights to a seat count, I suspect the two will be very close.
us330 From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 4034 posts, RR: 13
Reply 24, posted (2 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 10874 times:
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 16): oth AA and UA lose money flying people between Houston and Dallas so both stay relatively small.
I'd be curious to see whether the percentage of O&D passengers flying on UA/AA between IAH and DFW is noticeably less than the percentage of O&D pax on the other routes of the respective non-hub. I would imagine that the main purpose for those flights are to attract connecting passengers.
: I would'nt be surprised to see a larger number in O/D pax as compared to other city pairs. Houston and Dallas have a huge economic cooperation, so, f
26 EA CO AS
: I think we may have forgotten one major factor here; the Houston metro area is simply larger and more important economically than the Dallas/Ft. Worth
: Me thinks you've just awoken a sleeping giant!!! LOL OK DFW area slightly larger than Houston (we're talking metro areas here, not city proper size)
: Wow I assume there is some sarcasm in there. A.net has a fascination with Houston, but DFW serves 30-40% more passengers per year than IAH and despit
: DFW also is more conveniently located in the middle of the country for connections than IAH, and PAX know that.
: The passengers that make the route profitable and motivate WN to serve it with 25x are not buying $79 WGA fares.
: Although a little old, the last numbers I have seen have both DFW and IAH at around 60% connecting passengers each. DFW was 61% and IAH 59%. You are
32 usflyer msp
: DFW doesn't have half the local domestic O/D going to another airport like IAH does with HOU. DAL gets some but thanks to the Wright Amendment the bl
33 EA CO AS
: Well, you know what they say about assuming...because there was no sarcasm intended. Check out the number of Fortune 500 companies based in or around
: Of these cities, only SEA is a pilot domicile.
: WoW, the idea of flying a CR7 between IAH-LAX or DFW-SFO is painful. Happy I flew a 763 today between DFW and SFO on AA; so much more comfortable even
: I did it DFW-LAX on a CR7 in Y+ and it wasn't terrible, even better than flying IAH-SNA on a 737, and I'm 6'2".
: DFW is up there. In fact a few years ago UA was sending a lot of their new hires in other OZ (line) stations to DFW for training for the fact that it
: It may be slightly, but the difference in importance is going to be small at best. If you want to look at fortune 500 companies alone as an indicator
: Seems like most here are stuck on th topic of frequencies. Allow me to calculate the seats for both carriers... Assuming the seatcounts published by s
: Thanks for showing some real "numbers"! While much smaller, what are the AA numbers for HOU-DFW and the UA ones IAH-DAL?
: AA at HOU: 9 50-seaters to DFW= 450 seats/day UA at DAL: 7 50-seaters to IAH= 350 seats/day
: Ummm, UA flies to EVERY hub that AA does from IAH. The way you word it, you make it sound as if AA is flying to all of these places from IAH, thus has
: AA only operates around 4 or 5 flights a day to IAH from DFW. On weekends its no different.
: No, aside from the fact BA0197 is an AA agent at IAH, go to aa.com and type in DFW to IAH for tomorrow. You get 8 daily M80 departures 7am 9:40am 11:
: It changes quite a bit. At one point DFW-IAH was down to 5 flights a day.
: No, what I was getting at was this: Having grown up in Dallas, I'm very aware that taking Southwest out of Love for intra-Texas trips is a borderline
47 EA CO AS
: First off, the personal slam was uncalled for. No need to be petty and insulting. Second, I note from your profile that you're in Plano, part of the
: We have a winner. The reason why AA has a relatively large mainline presence at IAH - like many of its outstations in large metro areas - compared to
: I love how you ignored 2/3 of the factual data provided and zeroed on on Fortune 500 companies instead. Since you think number of fortune 500 compani
: Thank you for your competence. We have NEVER had less than 6 daily departures to DFW (at least in the last 20 years). Except JFK, so not "ALL".
: I have a family member who works for AA and commuted out of IAH for 23 years and has actually just moved to base. All im saying is that there has bee
: It's aircraft size and lack of variety, plain and simple. To be competitive in the market AA has to have frequency but due to the market they also kno
: IAH isn't a UA hub - it is a CO hub that UA is working into their network. Many of the UA flights you mentioned out of DFW are UA flights (i.e. ORD),
: Also, don't forget that NK has recently entered in DFW-IAH. Not a huge game changer, but still relevant to mention. So, you call someone out for maki
: I can confirm that last year (when we had 7 daily departures), we achieved an average load factor of 84.9% IAH-DFW. We were awarded an 8th frequency
: What are you talking about? It's definitely a UA hub
: So you are saying that UA dumped all the history, load factors, marketing and frequency information that Continental acquired over the years. They st
: BOS is a crew base for PMUA f/as only. No pilots or PMCO
: Let it go. CO is gone. Well you are clearly living in denial because the airport is without a doubt a United hub. And as a matter of fact, it's looki