Tango-Bravo From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3810 posts, RR: 27 Posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 2209 times:
During the 1960s-'70s it was fairly common for a European airline to route flights entirely within Europe to make an intermediate stop in a country outside its borders enroute to the final destination in a third country. Since timetables from the era are mostly unclear on the issue...
Did European airlines typically have traffic rights between intermediate stops in countries beyond the borders of their home nation and final destinations in a third country (aka Fifth Freedom rights)...or was it very much on a case-by-case basis as to whether, as an example, Swissair could carry pax/cargo originating at ARN to HEL on their ZRH-ARN-HEL route?
What are some examples of 5th Freedom rights within Europe during the 1960s-'70s, for airlines based in Europe...as well as some examples of the lack of traffic rights between intermediate stops in country 'B' and final destinations in country 'C'?
On a related subject, outside of some flight sectors within West Germany, did any European airline(s) have Cabotage rights (i.e. an airline based in country 'A' being allowed to carry local/domestic traffic between points within country 'B') within other European countries?
(whereas topics of a similar title previously posted here at a.net concern 5th Freedom rights within Europe for airlines based outside of Europe, in more recent times, this topic focuses on airlines based within Europe, some 4-5 decades in the past)
factsonly From Montserrat, joined Aug 2012, 1147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2019 times:
Ever since the 2nd World War, the European airlines operated many 5th Freedom flights within Europe. This lasted well into the 1980s and ended with the liberalisation of European air transport in the early 1990s.
Some examples from memory:
= DUB-MAN-AMS with BAC111/B732
- AY846 = HEL-GOT-AMS with CVL/DC9
- AY854 = HEL-HAM-AMS with CVL/DC9
- AY101 = HEL-CPH-AMS-JFK with DC8/DC10
- LO256 = WAW-SXF-AMS-LHR with IL18 1x/week
- LO007 = WAW-AMS-JFK with IL62 2x/week
- MA641 = BUD-PRG-AMS with Tu3 & IL18
- OK601 = PRG-AMS-JFK with IL62
- RO301 = BUH-AMS-JFK with B707
- TP624 = LIS-AMS-CPH with B727
- IB = MAD-AMS-HAM with D93
DANAIR = TXL-AMS v.v. with HS7
- LIS-OPO with A310 (domestic cabotage),
- GOT-HEL with 737,
- ARN-HEL with DC9,
- LED-WAW with DC9,
- SVO-WAW with DC9
- AMS-ZRH-LIS-Latin America with DC10, DC8
- AMS-ZRH-MAD-Latin America DC8
- AMS-FRA-LIS-Latin America DC8
- AMS-FRA-FCO-Asia with DC8
- AMS-VIE-ATH-Asia with DC8
BOAC, Swissair, Lufthansa and Air France all operated similar European patterns.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26382 posts, RR: 22
Reply 8, posted (1 year 10 months 1 week 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 1700 times:
Quoting Tango-Bravo (Thread starter): Did European airlines typically have traffic rights between intermediate stops in countries beyond the borders of their home nation and final destinations in a third country (aka Fifth Freedom rights)...or was it very much on a case-by-case basis as to whether, as an example, Swissair could carry pax/cargo originating at ARN to HEL on their ZRH-ARN-HEL route?
Fifth freedom rights were common but they depended on the individual bilaterals so there were a wide variety of conditions. Cabotage rights were very rare. As already mentioned, a couple of carriers had rights to carry domestic passengers GVA-ZRH on flights that served both points. I recall TAP and Tunisair were two that did that.