Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Ryanair Eyes German Expansion, 5-6 More Airports  
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3962 posts, RR: 5
Posted (1 year 3 months 16 hours ago) and read 7535 times:

Ryanair's Michael O'Leary is in the news today here in Germany as Germany's largest broadsheet FAZ has done an interview with him. He is quoted with plans to significantly boost Ryanair's presence in Germany by adding 5 or 6 additional German airports to its route network. To achieve this, he claims that Ryanair is currently negotiationg with 20 airports. He also says that Ryanair does not intend to serve BER once it opens because of the high costs charged there.

Realistically, if he plans to serve an additional 5-6 airports, they must come from this list - as everything else would be too unrealisitc (FRA, MUC), too exotic even by Ryanair standards (GWT, HDF) or too overlapping with existing FR destinations (AOC):

HAM
HAJ
DUS
KSF*
PAD*
STR*
FDH*
SCN/ZQW
ERF
RLG
DRS

* = on the record for not willing to accept Ryanair's conditions (note: almost every FR airport with existing service said that at some point)

The most interesting aspect, in my opinion, is, however, potential growth at CGN, NUE, DTM and LEJ, airports Ryanair has begun to serve relatively recently. They certainly offer a lot of potential as they are in the heart or close to lucrative markets and could easily be expanded at the expense of existing airports such as HHN, NRN or SXF.

[Edited 2013-04-25 08:19:31]

[Edited 2013-04-25 08:20:03]

52 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineluxair747sp From Germany, joined May 2010, 504 posts, RR: 17
Reply 1, posted (1 year 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 7435 times:

SCN would be quite a good choice IMO as the catchment area goes well into Luxembourg and France.
They could start cheap OPO flights from there as there is a lot of VFR traffic on that route.
That said, they already tried ZQW and it did not work.

Just my thought.
Cheers


User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3962 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 7405 times:

Well, "does not work" and Ryanair pretty much means that somebody did not cough up enough dough to make it work  

User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 7394 times:

Well...they could add Monchengladbach and market it as Dusseldorf/Cologne.

User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3962 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (1 year 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 7341 times:

Not unless they are prepared to add small turboprops to their fleet - the runway there is 1.200m

User currently offlineEurohub From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2005, 236 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 7306 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 3):
Well...they could add Monchengladbach and market it as Dusseldorf/Cologne

They already have NRN for Dusseldorf!



Forget A vs B - Give me E or BAe any day of the week!
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3962 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (1 year 3 months 15 hours ago) and read 7221 times:

Well, they also had GRO for Barcelona or LPL for Manchester....

User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1882 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 3 months 13 hours ago) and read 6960 times:

Quoting Eurohub (Reply 5):

Yah...but how many other airports do they have within short distances (50 km) of each other? Eindhoven and Maastrict are two that come to mind.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3681 posts, RR: 19
Reply 8, posted (1 year 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 6872 times:

What about Speyer? Is it ready commercial aviation?

User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 6831 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 3):
Well...they could add Monchengladbach and market it as Dusseldorf/Cologne.

The runway at Mönchengladbach is waaaay too short for a fully-loaded B738. It's just 1200m/3937ft.

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 8):
What about Speyer? Is it ready commercial aviation?

No. It does not have the necessary terminal infrastructure, and even the recently lengthened runway only has 1400m/4593ft of usable length. Like above, not nearly enough.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlineeicvd From Ireland, joined Mar 2008, 2146 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (1 year 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 6777 times:

Could SZW be a possible new destination?

User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3962 posts, RR: 5
Reply 11, posted (1 year 3 months 12 hours ago) and read 6681 times:

Theoretically yes. But for what purpose? I think Ryanair is moving away from airports such as SZW if there are more established options around (HAM, RLG).

User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 6667 times:

Quoting eicvd (Reply 10):
Could SZW be a possible new destination?

I suppose, but SZW is in the middle of nowhere even by Ryanair standards.

And to make matters worse, the Landkreis (kind of like a county) in which Parchim lies has the fifth-lowest population density in Germany, with just 46 people per square kilometer (for comparison, the national average is 230 people per square kilometer).

And the area's economic data isn't great either...

[Edited 2013-04-25 12:39:24]


Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8685 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (1 year 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 6599 times:

Quoting eicvd (Reply 10):
Could SZW be a possible new destination?

By car and according to Google Maps, it's only one and a half hours from Hamburg and two from Berlin. There's also quite a bit of tourism infrastructure in the "Müritz" area east of SZW, so maybe there's still some subsidy money to be extorted there.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineAviaco From Germany, joined May 2012, 34 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 6584 times:

What about BWE? They just inaugurated the runway extension some months ago.

User currently offlineflyingalex From Germany, joined Jul 2010, 1016 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 6521 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 13):
By car and according to Google Maps, it's only one and a half hours from Hamburg and two from Berlin. There's also quite a bit of tourism infrastructure in the "Müritz" area east of SZW, so maybe there's still some subsidy money to be extorted there.

There might be subsidy money to be had, sure. But the Müritz tourism market is largely domestic, and Ryanair already serves airports that are closer to Hamburg and Berlin, like LBC and BRE or SXF and CSO, respectively.



Public service announcement: "It's" = "it is". To indicate posession, write "its." Looks wrong, but it's correct grammar
User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3962 posts, RR: 5
Reply 16, posted (1 year 3 months 11 hours ago) and read 6495 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 13):

By car and according to Google Maps, it's only one and a half hours from Hamburg and two from Berlin.

For that kind of "substitute" airport, they already have LBC (for HAM) and LEJ (for BER) which both are better positioned to serve those markets.

Quoting Aviaco (Reply 14):
What about BWE? They just inaugurated the runway extension some months ago.

Not sure if BWE is actively acquiring airlines, the status of the airport is unique.


User currently offlineZKCIF From Lithuania, joined Oct 2010, 290 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 6381 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 12):
ith just 46 people per square kilometer

no worries This ain't a problem. The population density in Lithuania is roughly the same, the income is FAR FAR lower yet they merrily fly to two airports


User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8685 posts, RR: 43
Reply 18, posted (1 year 3 months 10 hours ago) and read 6332 times:

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 15):
But the Müritz tourism market is largely domestic

Ah, that's true...

Quoting flyingalex (Reply 15):
and Ryanair already serves airports that are closer to Hamburg and Berlin, like LBC and BRE or SXF and CSO, respectively.
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 16):
For that kind of "substitute" airport, they already have LBC (for HAM) and LEJ (for BER) which both are better positioned to serve those markets.

But we all know what happens when one of those airports stops playing FR's game: they move. So perhaps one is "acting up" and they're looking for alternatives?



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineeurowings From UK - England, joined Sep 2011, 298 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 3 months 9 hours ago) and read 6234 times:

Quoting aloges (Reply 18):
But we all know what happens when one of those airports stops playing FR's game: they move. So perhaps one is "acting up" and they're looking for alternatives?

Until they reach the point when they have saturated the market and there are few viable alternatives remaining, like they have done in the UK and Ireland. Then their ability to play airports head-to-head diminishes and they are willing to pay higher fees to increase loads and yields.


User currently offlineSetjet From United States of America, joined Mar 2002, 1102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 5789 times:

Ho about Bitburg?

No passenger facilities, but hey, it´s Ryanair, who cares...  


User currently offlinevfw614 From Germany, joined Dec 2001, 3962 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5691 times:

Bitburg is a dead as can be. The private investor who held 40 per cent of the airport turned out to be a happy-go-lucky sort of fellow and was removed a couple of weeks ago. The other major sharehold, a public authority, now wants to dispose of its shares asap. There is even talk about closing the whole place down for good.

User currently offlineKL911 From Ireland, joined Jul 2003, 5119 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 5639 times:

Never say never to MUC and FRA. Fares are quite high from those airports, and FR does fly to other 'major' airports or capitals like BCN, MAD, MAN, DUB, BUD, WAW etc


Next trip : DUB-AUH-CGK-DPS-KUL-AUH-CDG-ORK :-)
User currently offlineMHG From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 774 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 5319 times:

No matter how much I look out for viable alternative airports for Ryanair I can´t find any suitable (availlable) ones that could generate sufficient passenger numbers either in itself or by cannibalizing neighbouring airports.

"Availlable" is mentionned because LHA (for sure) and IGS = Ingolstadt-Manching (potentially) would be viable and have a serious impact on surrounding airports.
But unfortunately both are "put in handcuffs" for political reasons.
LHA has intentionally become restricted to 12t MTOW (to protect FKB / STR and probably a lesser degree BSL and SXB ) with every a/c movement above that weight limit needing a special permission ...
IGS is still run by the German Air Force but has a civilian part which is already used by a/c up to the size of A319 (DC Aviation) quite regularly. I don´t see the operator willing to fall on its knees because of Ryanair´s "financial requirements"...



I miss the sound of rolls royce darts and speys
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9156 posts, RR: 29
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 5311 times:

Quoting eicvd (Reply 10):
Could SZW be a possible new destination?
Quoting flyingalex (Reply 12):
I suppose, but SZW is in the middle of nowhere even by Ryanair standards.
Quoting flyingalex (Reply 15):
There might be subsidy money to be had, sure.
SZW had the chance to becme the second FR airport after HHN, but the land oif MeckPomm refused to fork out DM 500.000 for advertising the splendid nature out there. IMHO it waqs a mistake, FR would have loaded millions of pax there meanwhile and LBC might not have been chosen as a destination. That was back in the late 90s. SZW still dreams the dream of the innpocent. The county manager understood it but he did not have the funds then. Pumping money over the years hoping that this questionale Chinese "investor" finally pays up was much more expensive. Hopefully, Pang will not go Peng.

Quoting KL911 (Reply 22):
Never say never to MUC and FRA. F

At least FRA would need to build a dedicated terminal, the regular ops simply do not fit the requirements


Forgot to mention:
Distance HAM - SZW is about the same as FRA / HHN. BER - SZW is a bit far bit for the northern and north western parts of Berlin absolutely OK compared to LEJ and it might really be that once BER is opened MOL does not agree to the conditions to be there, at least he would probably scale down ops. Or BER offers to maintain the old SXF terminal which would solve a couple of other problems.

[Edited 2013-04-26 22:56:02]

[Edited 2013-04-26 23:38:28]


E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
25 vfw614 : It is earmarked to become the new government terminal, so no chance.
26 PanHAM : They should really pull the emergency brake and keep TXL open as a government airport with space for general/business aviation. That would solve even
27 vfw614 : Well, just three words: Not. Gonna. Happen.
28 PanHAM : You know what, I even aree with you. These guys are so stubborn, they drive the plane at landing speed against the wall and don't give a damn about it
29 mozart : I am not sure whether there is something "too exotic" for Ryanair. Vatry, Altenburg, Targu Mures, Bydgoszcz, Dôle? Some of these places hardly have
30 na : I am pretty sure that LH will give Ryanair increasing problems with Germanwings expanding.
31 Post contains images PanHAM : Neubrandenburg is a good candidate but they would have to fight the Barndenburg government. Lahr is possible but they are in receivership as far as I
32 RussianJet : HAJ would be good. Is there actually any chance of HAM being likely? This would be my ideal.
33 vfw614 : Both are island airports with hardly any outbound traffic (lack of population). They are strictly (low volume) seasonal, high-end inbound markets. Bo
34 Post contains images ZKCIF : Oh man... Considering that Bydgoszcz and Torun essentially make one city Roterdam starts looking like a village
35 Pe@rson : Well, 105,163 flew FR on Bydgoszcz-Stansted-Bydgoszcz in 2012, and the vast majority are surely Polish.
36 C010T3 : But why? Is Brandenburg building/upgrading another airport in the northern Kreisen? Does Ryanair want incentives from the airport administration or e
37 A342 : ??? FDH is a functioning airport with scheduled services.
38 Eagleboy : That is close to an insult!!!
39 PanHAM : True. Whoever can afford sylt (GWT) yes, but likely not accepting the FR standard requirements to "inveswt" at FDH well, may be but when you go to tha
40 Post contains links PHX Flyer : The COO of Ryanair, Michael Cawley gave a lecture at the University of Cologne Business School earlier this week, as well as an interview to a local p
41 LJ : Didn't U2 try CGN before (and reduced to a twice daily CGN-LGW flight)?
42 vfw614 : IIRC, they only ever served EMA and LPL in addition to LGW, so not exactly a full-blown attack.[Edited 2013-04-28 07:35:42]
43 PHX Flyer : I assume, with your question you are trying to insinuate CGN may not be a good choice and prone to failure. Easyjet started to serve CGN in the summe
44 r2rho : Any regional airport where AB has pulled down (or exited altogether) recently due to their restructuring would be a good candidate. HAJ has potential,
45 Post contains links Pe@rson : Good summary article on this topic: http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...ill-be-serving-germany-more-107944
46 Semaex : Erm. Why? Neubrandenburg, even though misleading, is not in Brandenburg, but in MV. To be honest, I think RLG has a really good chance. No it isn't.
47 PanHAM : I may get this mixed up, but my memory tells me that Berlin and Brandenburg made sure no airport in the vicinity can become a threat to their single
48 Semaex : That is true, but I doubt if FR is going to open up a base in this area they are going to promote it as "Hamburg" or "Berlin". Keep in mind, they alr
49 vfw614 : I think it is obvious that Ryanair's more recent strategy is to fly from what can be seen as "tertiary" airports (CGN, NUE, DTM, FMO, BRE) and that th
50 r2rho : Agree that HAJ and DRS are top of the list, but disagree about HAM as a target. It's not the kind of airport FR would fly to. LBC is already very con
51 vfw614 : I am not so sure. Ryanair has never expanded at LBC like they have at HHN or NRN. LBC only ever had a token presence which, in my view, shows that it
52 eurowings : I wouldn't rule it out. In the UK, FR opened a base at MAN (third busiest airport nationwide) despite falling out with the airport a few years previo
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Ryanair Expands At MAD: More Domestic Flights posted Thu Oct 2 2008 04:29:20 by Joost
BAA May Be Forced To Sell One Or More Airports posted Tue Apr 22 2008 05:24:26 by Smeg
Long-term Expansion Of Airports In New York City? posted Mon Oct 23 2006 05:47:53 by CoolGuy
Ryanair Hint At Expansion Into Asia! posted Sun Jun 11 2006 12:22:46 by EI321
Ryanair Eyes 2nd Germany Base + 1st In E. Europe posted Fri Feb 17 2006 14:09:26 by Pe@rson
Bournemouth Expansion, More Routes posted Mon Nov 14 2005 22:50:31 by BMED
Ryanair Exercises Options For 9 More 738s posted Tue Oct 4 2005 11:45:36 by PanAm_DC10
WN Announces More ISP Expansion. 4 More Gates! posted Tue Nov 23 2004 14:04:49 by NIKV69
Cities With Two (or More) Airports posted Sat Aug 9 2003 19:52:44 by Funflyer
Ryanair Eyes Eastern European Hub posted Fri Mar 14 2003 15:24:52 by Britair