Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Neither Of The Voice Recorders Worked  
User currently offlineI Like To Fly From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, RR: 2
Posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1503 times:

They have been trying to get the info out of the block boxes of the plane that hit the Pentagon & the one crashed in PA all day. It doesn't sound good. The voice recorders, that are considered much more important than the data recorders in this investigation are not providing any info from either plane. The one in PA is mysteriously blank and they think a software glitch contributed to it not recording anything, however they are still looking into it. The one from the Pentagon is VERY burned and they don't think it will be of any use. It apparently burned at very high temperatures for many hours, they are built to survive 2,000 degrees F for only 1 hour. The data recorders did apparently survive, but the FBI is saying they don't really need that info since they know what the planes were doing before the crashes and why they went down. Damn, I would have found it very interesting to know the conversations in the cockpit and how the terrorists got in for sure.

Anyone know if the flight data recorders less sensitive than the voice recorders and that's why they survived and the voice recorders didn't? Or is this just bad luck that the ones we really need don't work?

18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineB808/A400 From United States of America, joined May 2001, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1387 times:

I think there's a general idea of what went on in the cockpit. Heavily accented threats of bombs, etc. I can say one thing for certain, no such accident will ever happen again. From now on, any hijacking attempt will be viewed as a Ram-a-landmark attempt, and people passengers/crew will try to stop it from happening.

User currently offlineRyu2 From Taiwan, joined Aug 2002, 495 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1374 times:

The terrorists probably pulled the circuit breaker to the CVR/FDR, turning it off. The same thing was done in 1997 in the SilkAir crash, which many people think was a pilot suicide.

User currently offlineI Like To Fly From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1351 times:

B808/A400, we still DON'T KNOW exactly how they got entry into the cockpit and that's what we hoped to find out.

User currently offlineSotomayor From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1344 times:

I believe those voice recorders used real tape, so the tape must be damaged by the intensity of the fire (very high temperatures), especially at the Pentagon site. I haven't heard anything about a voice recorder box for the UA93 plane. The flight data recorders are storing data in memory (solid state devices) which apparently are less sensitive to the conditions of the crash.


sotomayor
User currently offlineI Like To Fly From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, RR: 2
Reply 5, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1329 times:

Ryu2, they were aparently educated and I suppose could do that. But why? As long as they got the job done they didn't care. I mean they didn't bother to cover their tracks anyplace else so why on the plane? They left evidence everywhere else it was them and one even left a note, so they are proud of what they did and I would imagine would also want their voices heard. Doesn't make sense to turn them off.

User currently offlineH. Simpson From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 949 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1293 times:

Ryu2, you stated the point, these terriost READ the MENAUL, they might really turn off the circuit breaker.
but we will see what really happen.


User currently offlineI Like To Fly From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1253 times:

H. Simpson, first of all why would they? Second, how will we find out what really happened without the voice recorders? You didn't support you statements that well. Confused

User currently offlineJoni From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 1239 times:


Maybe they left false clues on the ground and turned the cockpit recorders off to conceal whatever "trade secrets" they have.



User currently offlineI Like To Fly From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1224 times:

Joni, I have to admit I never thought of that. But I don't know how likely that is. They are too proud of what they did to want to turn off the recorders.

Ryu2, the DATA was recorded and I think they would both not work if they pulled a circuit, at least from what I can gather.


User currently offlinePilot1113 From United States of America, joined Aug 1999, 2333 posts, RR: 11
Reply 10, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1209 times:

>>I believe those voice recorders used real tape

According to the FARs all airliners MUST BE EQUIPPED with digital flight recorders as of March of this year. If they failed to meet this requirement, then the airliner would be considered 'unairworthy.'

- Neil Harrison


User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1192 times:

Another little point for conspiracy theorists. How comes we can find voice data recorders for planes that crash right into the ocean (TWA, Egyptair) with information on them, when two out of two found recorders in this act of terrorism do not work. I eagerly await the other two recorders to be found. Should it be claimed that they were empty as well, I might just lose any faith in the "it was bin Laden" theory - that would smell too much of cover-up.

Until then, I wait. Disappointed, but still hopeful for REAL information... Especially the easily found Pittsburgh recorder should have provided that already. Empty tape, huh? Software glitch???

Regards

Ikarus


User currently offlineI Like To Fly From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, RR: 2
Reply 12, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 1190 times:

Ikarus, they have already said that it is VERY unlikely that the two WTC plane recorders survived something that violent.

User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2903 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1165 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

I heard a couple of days ago that one of the cockpit radio mic's was left open and that ATC tapes picked some things up, so it may not be a total loss...

User currently offlineI Like To Fly From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1188 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 1141 times:

Flashmeister, where did you hear that? I hope it's true! But I would think it would be big news if they did, but who knows. Anyone else hear this?

User currently offlineSotomayor From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 0 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 1096 times:

Your information is wrong, since by the time you started this thread only one cockpit voice recorder had been found, the one at the Pentagon. This one was probably destroyed by the heat, if in fact it was a tape used in that box.

They just found the UA93 (in PA) CVR about 3 hours ago. No word yet on whether it's usable or not, but I'm sure word will leak out in less than a day on whether the recording is usable or not.



sotomayor
User currently offlineGator17 From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 20 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1080 times:

EgyptAir and TWA had lots of seawater to extinguish any flames there might be on the ocean floor. All the data recorders for each plane was subject to many hours of intense heat, along with millions of tons of collapsing debris around it. Recorders are not built to survive a building collapse, or hellish infernos. So don't start up with these conspiracy theories.

User currently offlineLoneStarMike From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 3868 posts, RR: 33
Reply 17, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 1 day ago) and read 1072 times:

Solomayer is right. They just found the second black box about 8:30 pm. You must be confusing the CVR with the FDR.

Pa. Flight's Second Black Box Found

SOMERSET, Pa. (AP) - The cockpit voice recorder from the hijacked United flight that crashed in western Pennsylvania was found Friday and sent to Washington for analysis.

Search crews found the ``black box´´ at about 8:30 p.m. some 25 feet deep in the crash site crater, FBI (news - web sites) spokeswoman Linda Vizi said. It was sent to the National Transportation Safety Board (news - web sites) in Washington.

FBI spokesman Bill Crowley said the recorder appears to be ``in fairly good shape,´´ citing descriptions by those who found it. The recorder, which is designed to capture at least the last 30 minutes of cockpit conversation, could provide more detail about what happened on board United Flight 93.

The plane's other black box, the flight data recorder, was found Thursday.

The Boeing 757 went down 10 miles from here, near rural Shanksville, after leaving Newark, N.J., for San Francisco. Radar showed the plane on route and heading over Cleveland when it abruptly turned back east, began losing altitude and flying erratically toward Maryland before it crashed.

Cell phone calls made by passengers to relatives before the crash suggested they planned to wrest control of the jet from the hijackers and prevent the plane from becoming a missile like the ones that toppled the World Trade Center and damaged the Pentagon (news - web sites).

Some have speculated that the hijackers planned to target Camp David, Md., the Capitol or even the White House. In a tribute Friday night that brought friends and relatives of the dead to tears, Gov. Tom Ridge called some of the passengers heroes for battling their captors.

``The passengers on that plane decided to fight back their hijackers,´´ Ridge said at a vigil attended by thousands. ``They undoubtedly saved hundreds, if not thousands, of lives in the process. They sacrificed themselves for others - the ultimate sacrifice.´´

``What appears to be a charred, smoldering hole in the ground is truly and really a monument to heroism,´´ he said.

About 80 friends and relatives, none who spoke at the service, were escorted by police and Red Cross workers past a crowd estimated at 3,000 to attend the vigil. Many cried as they waved candles and flags while singing ``God Bless America.´´

Earlier, volunteers at the crash site led a prayer service. Heeding President Bush (news - web sites)'s call for a national day of prayer, Salvation Army and Red Cross workers prayed and sang ``Amazing Grace.´´

LoneStarMike

User currently offlineIkarus From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2001, 3524 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (13 years 3 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 1022 times:

Gator17, I like To Fly:

So they can find a closed section of the cockpit with a terrorist inside, a stewardess with her arms tied behind her back in the back section of the plane - but they cannot find the CVR or FDR - both (unlike human bodies) being devices designed to withstand extreme conditions, designed to survive airplane crashes?


If LoneStarMike is right, then there is still hope for proper information.



Regards

Ikarus


Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Auditions For The Voice Of "ted" (United) posted Thu Apr 1 2004 17:32:46 by SonicKidatBWI
Randy - Forward Section Of The 787 Completed posted Thu Feb 22 2007 02:06:17 by NAV20
First Picture Of The PW6000 Powered LAN A318 posted Sat Feb 17 2007 15:56:58 by LTU932
Reason For AA's Closure Of The RDU, SJC, BNA Hub? posted Sat Feb 17 2007 01:21:35 by Noise
What's the meaning of the term CUTE? posted Fri Feb 9 2007 23:12:48 by DiscoverCSG
11th Year Of The Birgenair Crash posted Wed Feb 7 2007 15:38:30 by Emrecan
Luggage Tag Destroys The Cover Of The Passports! posted Tue Jan 30 2007 16:15:17 by SAS-A321
Anyone Have Photos Of The New US 767 Interior? posted Sat Jan 27 2007 07:07:41 by Malaysia
QX Named ATW's Regional Airline Of The Year posted Sat Jan 27 2007 00:28:33 by Jetboy319
Horizon ATW Regional Of The Year posted Fri Jan 26 2007 18:35:57 by Dash8tech