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Will EK Go Non-stop To Buenos Aires?  
User currently offlineVCy From Cyprus, joined Dec 2012, 236 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9383 times:
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Does anyone have any information on the loads to EZE? Can't GIG & EZE support individual flight to DXB?

26 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineyowza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4892 posts, RR: 15
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9335 times:

I don't have any raw data (but would love some if anybody has it) but I suspect not. Let's not forget the additional frames that supporting these stations independently would require and the fact that planes would sit idle for long periods at both airports. Beyond this the fact that QR are in the mix with great product, competitive prices and similar schedules may make it harder to split the route.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 626 posts, RR: 16
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 9305 times:

With the current economic slowdown in Argentina, it is probably not the best timing for a direct flight to EZE from DXB... On the other hand, Brazil is doing quite well right now (economically).


I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlineCXfirst From Norway, joined Jan 2007, 3068 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9159 times:

Well, EK are using their 777-200LR on the route, while the 777-300ER can do the route (as it does DXB-GRU). So until it becomes daily 77W, it would be odd for EK to split the route to presumably one daily to each GIG and EZE.

-CXfirst



From Norway, live in Australia
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9147 times:

I think it is bound to happen in a few years. Both GIG and EZE are large and growing markets. Right now though, the economic climate is not the best to split the flights.

Quoting Azure (Reply 2):
With the current economic slowdown in Argentina, it is probably not the best timing for a direct flight to EZE from DXB... On the other hand, Brazil is doing quite well right now (economically).

Actually, the brazilian economy is suffering a heavy de-industrialization process because of inefficient laws and high taxes that haven't been effective in controlling the influx of foreign capital in regard to the appreciation of the Real. Thus, the brazilian economy is showing very slow growth. It is a cyclic thing and Brazil, due to it's enormous size, will be back on track in a few years, but right not it wouldn't be recommendable to split the flights, due to Argentina but also to Brazil.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineAzure From France, joined Dec 2012, 626 posts, RR: 16
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 9029 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 4):
Actually, the brazilian economy is suffering a heavy de-industrialization process because of inefficient laws and high taxes that haven't been effective in controlling the influx of foreign capital in regard to the appreciation of the Real. Thus, the brazilian economy is showing very slow growth. It is a cyclic thing and Brazil, due to it's enormous size, will be back on track in a few years, but right not it wouldn't be recommendable to split the flights, due to Argentina but also to Brazil.

Thanks for the update. I had in mind the tourism industry and the prospect for 2014 and 2016. The Brazilian govt is hoping that GDP growth for 2013 will be 3,3%... Not an amazing figure not a catastrophic one, unless it is overestimated....



I fly because it releases my mind from the tyranny of petty things - A. de Saint Exupery
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8373 posts, RR: 10
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8861 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 4):
Actually, the brazilian economy is suffering a heavy de-industrialization process because of inefficient laws and high taxes that haven't been effective in controlling the influx of foreign capital in regard to the appreciation of the Real. Thus, the brazilian economy is showing very slow growth. It is a cyclic thing and Brazil, due to it's enormous size, will be back on track in a few years, but right not it wouldn't be recommendable to split the flights, due to Argentina but also to Brazil.

  
Compared to recent years the Brazilian economy is actually cooling down. Africa is now where the big growth potential is for airlines.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 8816 times:

Quoting CXfirst (Reply 3):

Well, EK are using their 777-200LR on the route, while the 777-300ER can do the route (as it does DXB-GRU). So until it becomes daily 77W, it would be odd for EK to split the route to presumably one daily to each GIG and EZE.

The route gets the 77W back on October 1st.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8287 times:

Quoting Azure (Reply 5):
I had in mind the tourism industry and the prospect for 2014 and 2016. The Brazilian govt is hoping that GDP growth for 2013 will be 3,3%... Not an amazing figure not a catastrophic one, unless it is overestimated....

For developing economies to generate more disposable income and faster business dynamics, growth figures of less than 4% are not sufficient, not terrible, but not enough. That is what generates more air traffic. Brazil's economy grew a mere 0.9% last year, which is actually bad for a developing nation. You can see the sever cooling down of the domestic air market already, with GOL loosing millions of dollars and not being able to improve their load factors even after severe capacity cuts.

But as you said, the country will be back on track in a couple of years and surely EK will then split the flight into two.

Looking at Argentina, it's just sad. Foreign business is not welcome, the inefficient government keeps pouring millions of dollars into ridiculous subsidies and inefficient institutions (look at AR, which is one of many), the protectionist measures are unreasonable and Cristina just keeps going further. There will be a point in which these policies will take a huge effect on the economy, it they aren't doing so already.

Also, I heard EK was bringing the A380 to GRU, is it true? Is GRU A380 ready yet?



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineRodRB From Brazil, joined Feb 2010, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8208 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 8):
Also, I heard EK was bringing the A380 to GRU, is it true? Is GRU A380 ready yet?

GRU new Terminal will be opened in May 2014 and will be ready for the A380.

EK, among others, will probably fly their biggest bird to GRU.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 8174 times:
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Quoting VCy (Thread starter):
Does anyone have any information on the loads to EZE? Can't GIG & EZE support individual flight to DXB?

EK says that GIG performs very well in terms of yields. The route (both GIG and GRU) is now around 85% LF year round, with busy weeks due to the heavy agenda in Rio.

As for EZE, i don't think so. They are losing activity quickly (AA will downgauge again DFW-EZE to 763 and AF Is now using a 772 without F to EZE) and i just don't see that huge ties now to Asia.



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineincitatus From Brazil, joined Feb 2005, 4014 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 7883 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 4):
Actually, the brazilian economy is suffering a heavy de-industrialization process because of inefficient laws and high taxes that haven't been effective in controlling the influx of foreign capital in regard to the appreciation of the Real. Thus, the brazilian economy is showing very slow growth.

In 2012 the biggest drag in Brazil's economy was companies shrinking capital investment. Industrial production took a small hit but so did commodity prices. On the other hand consumer spending is up and it is the main reason why the economy has not really cooled off. Consumer spending coupled with a favorable exchange rate drives non-business international travel. Last March saw an all-time record in Brazilian tourists' spending abroad. The economy is being sustained by cheap credit and the housing market is showing signs of irrational exuberance. I can't see a big chance of a happy ending, but things are going a lot better than across the Rio de la Plata.



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User currently offlineIrishAyes From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 2190 posts, RR: 15
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 7613 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
AA will downgauge again DFW-EZE to 763

Yeah, but this is a routine fleet adjustment. AA generally sends a 772 to EZE from DFW in the high season (northern winter) and downgauges DFWMAD to a 763, and then the two flip-flop in the northern summer.

However, there have been previous occasions during which AA has maintained a 777 on DFWEZE year-round.

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 10):
EK says that GIG performs very well in terms of yields. The route (both GIG and GRU) is now around 85% LF year round, with busy weeks due to the heavy agenda in Rio.

Should EK perhaps consider giving GIG dedicated services and linking EZE with another Brasilian/South American city>



next flights: jfk-icn, icn-hkg-bkk-cdg, cdg-phl-msp
User currently offlineAA767LOVER From Hong Kong, joined Aug 2007, 609 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6588 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 12):

Given the current growth in Brasil, I would say that GIG could support a 77W or 77L independent of EZE.
With the slowdown in Argentina, but yet not wanting to give up the landing rights, this is a good fifth freedom flight.
I'm surprised nobody has ever tried connecting DOH-CCS (with a 77W) or DXB-CCS (772 or 343) or IST-CCS with a 77W.

Is there a business market for it? Is there a strong Arab enclave in Caracas?



J.I. Tsui, American Advantage Member, United Mileage Plus (Premier)
User currently offlineIstanbuler83 From Turkey, joined Nov 2009, 17 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5903 times:

I would like to know how TK is doing on the same route. Is there some data out there?


Istanbuler83
User currently offlinefalkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 4154 times:

Quoting AA767LOVER (Reply 13):

Foreign investors (including airlines) are very reluctant to enter Venezuelan market, not only due to the political turmoil but to the fact that the government has been known for nationalising and or expelling foreign companies, so much that AV has slowly decreased frequencies on CCS-BOG. If economy strength and proyected growth where the only variables, perhaps BOG wiuld be an interesting new destination (rumors say EK has looked onto it) but the altitude in BOG make it unviable for a direct flight to the middle east (LH, AF and AV all operate at about 70% due to the altitude)


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3833 times:
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Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 12):

Should EK perhaps consider giving GIG dedicated services and linking EZE with another Brasilian/South American city>

It very well could be. In my view these tags such as EK, TK and QR (the last two out of Sao Paulo) to EZE should be allowed only thru secondary markets in Brazil.
Problem is... no market in Brazil is strong enough to/from Asia or Africa to justify an Emirates flight, with the exception of Rio de Janeiro and Sao Paulo.

But during World Cup, they could run EZE-BSB/CNF-DXB without a problem.
We will need such flights as i don't see the required extra capacity to deal with the huge demand !



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8373 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks ago) and read 3525 times:

Quoting RodRB (Reply 9):
GRU new Terminal will be opened in May 2014 and will be ready for the A380.

That all depends on what will be open in May 2014, which they're not saying. Is it just the terminal building, or will the pier with the gates also be open? Even just the terminal, I find it highly unlikely that it will be ready by May 2014. This video was shot just 4 months ago and there was hardly anything built yet. It's hard to imagine a new terminal, let alone the attached pier, being built from the ground up in just a year from now.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4d4rOjKw1w

Are there any more recent photos/videos anywhere?

Quoting incitatus (Reply 11):
Consumer spending coupled with a favorable exchange rate drives non-business international travel. Last March saw an all-time record in Brazilian tourists' spending abroad. The economy is being sustained by cheap credit and the housing market is showing signs of irrational exuberance. I can't see a big chance of a happy ending, but things are going a lot better than across the Rio de la Plata.

Sounds like the US economy circa 2000, or Europe circa 2004   I hope it's not a bad case of déjà vu'.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3704 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3456 times:

Quoting airbazar (Reply 17):
Are there any more recent photos/videos anywhere?

Yes, there are:

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpost.php?p=102697928&postcount=6692


User currently offlineyowza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4892 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3347 times:

To clarify my first post:

I think Brazil, even with muted growth can support dedicated ops to DXB shortly, or maybe even today. It's more EZE that I have an issue with. Can EZE fill a 77L/77W to DXB daily?

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlinefalkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3077 times:

Quoting yowza (Reply 19):
Can EZE fill a 77L/77W to DXB daily?

Probably not, I am sure other South American destinations would fill them better, SCL, CCS, BOG or LIM...


User currently offlineSCQ83 From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 938 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 3066 times:

Quoting IrishAyes (Reply 12):
Should EK perhaps consider giving GIG dedicated services and linking EZE with another Brasilian/South American city>

I could imagine it would make some sense to link EZE with SCL (DXB-EZE-SCL). It would give EK a comparative advantage (only direct connection with ME since every one else is via GRU) and for SCL it would be the only ME carrier.


User currently offlineAvianca From Venezuela, joined Jan 2005, 5925 posts, RR: 40
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2775 times:

Quoting falkerker (Reply 15):
Foreign investors (including airlines) are very reluctant to enter Venezuelan market, not only due to the political turmoil but to the fact that the government has been known for nationalising and or expelling foreign companies, so much that AV has slowly decreased frequencies on CCS-BOG.

Venezuela ows around 1.2 Billions of USD to the foreign airlines. this is money that is still not approved / transfered via CADIVI in order to be reexpetriated to their home countries.. Really unbelivable amount - specially if you consider that the international market ex VE is not big at all.



Colombia es el Mundo Y el Mundo es Colombia
User currently offlinefalkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

Quoting Avianca (Reply 22):

Im pretty sure EK would rather go elsewhere, even BOG with its big payload penalty due to altitude would be more appealing than CCS, I think the time when most airlines stopped in CCS is long gone.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5579 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 2446 times:

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 21):
for SCL it would be the only ME carrier.

I guess the question is what traffic flows are there from SCL. More specifically, where abouts is there demand? If it is to HKG/East Asia then I would say that it is unlikely that ME3 could be competitive in SCL. If, however, there is strong demand to the Indian Sub-Continent then it might be worth giving a go.

It has been noted on here before that LA/CX have a strong partnership SCL-AKL-HKG, and that this is the "normal" route for LA to Asia.

If demand is to HKG/PRC/Korea then this route is something like 1000mi shorter than going via DXB.

For India, though going SCL-EZE-DXB-DEL is about 3000mi shorter than via AKL/HKG.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineairbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8373 posts, RR: 10
Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 2419 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 18):
Yes, there are:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...=6692

Awesome. Thank you very much.

Now back on topic, does anyone know what the bigger Asian markets from EZE, are? That may provide more insight into the viability of a dedicated EZE-DXB route.


User currently offlineCX288 From Germany, joined Jan 2008, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 26, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 2338 times:

If they were to delink EZE from GIG in order to cater for more passengers from Brazil, they could think of extending their MAD service to EZE if they were given 5th freedom rights. It is a obvious detour, yet substantial traffic potential to tap between Argentina and Spain. Routing it via FCO might also be an option, now that they have linked MXP with JFK.

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