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United orders upto 70 E175 Aircraft  
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11691 posts, RR: 33
Posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 30426 times:

United Airlines has placed an order for 30 76-seat Embrear ERJ-175 aircraft for United Express. United will begin to take deliveries in the beginning in 2014. All aircraft will have 12 United First seats, 16 Economy Plus seats and 48 Economy seats. Source: WSJ.



I did not see this one coming, have I slept under a rock?

[Edited 2013-04-29 14:38:22]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
143 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineRL757PVD From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 4676 posts, RR: 11
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 30389 times:

This would be a good aircraft to bring IAH to PVD/BDL back


Experience is what you get when what you thought would work out didn't!
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4106 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 30368 times:

Source? United Continental Holdings bought their own regional jets? That kind of flies in the face of what most airlines have been doing as of late with regionals.

E-jets are nice but I am still holding out for a C-series order...


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 11691 posts, RR: 33
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 30266 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
Source?

The Wall Street Journal: http://twitter.com/jonostrower/status/328978370576646144



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinerotating14 From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 667 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 30256 times:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...nited-express-fleet-205291031.html


Source.


User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 30141 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):

Source? United Continental Holdings bought their own regional jets? That kind of flies in the face of what most airlines have been doing as of late with regionals.

It gives them more control to whipsaw airplanes faster.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 941 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 30080 times:

Congrats to United I don't think anyone saw this coming.

12 seats in first class on a regional jet is a lot it will be interesting to see what routes United deploys these aircraft on.

Also if anyone would like to speculate why is the order so small the United Express fleet still has a lot of 50 seat aircraft will we see United order more E-jets or will the 50 seat jets be around for the remainder of this decade and into the next?


User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 30084 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
Source? United Continental Holdings bought their own regional jets? That kind of flies in the face of what most airlines have been doing as of late with regionals.

Not really. No different than what DL did with the recent CR9 order. They'll own the jets, but contract the operation out to the regionals.



Flown: DL,OS,NZ,UN,VV,NW,AA,UA,HP,TZ,AS,AF,KL,SK,WS,AZ,OK; op by OO,MQ,XJ,9E,G7,EV,QX,RP
User currently offlineredzeppelin From United States of America, joined Feb 2012, 598 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 30030 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 6):
12 seats in first class on a regional jet is a lot it will be interesting to see what routes United deploys these aircraft on.

Same configuration used by DL Connection.



Flown: DL,OS,NZ,UN,VV,NW,AA,UA,HP,TZ,AS,AF,KL,SK,WS,AZ,OK; op by OO,MQ,XJ,9E,G7,EV,QX,RP
User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 30003 times:

One thing that sticks out to me is the E+ cabin being virtually half what it is on the CR7 and E70. Is this signaling a move away from more E+ or just a coincidence that they decided to adopt the DL config?

User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29956 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 6):
Also if anyone would like to speculate why is the order so small

My speculation is that they are't going to any of the Republic clan, so, based on the launch date, this gives other carriers enough time to ramp up getting the type added to their certificate (which takes a while.)



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29883 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 10):
My speculation is that they are't going to any of the Republic clan, so, based on the launch date, this gives other carriers enough time to ramp up getting the type added to their certificate (which takes a while.)

Im guessing Skywest. There have been long rumors about an E-Jet program being started there, not to mention their long standing relationship with UA.



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User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25438 posts, RR: 49
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29834 times:

Now starts the fun.

Regional's can flight for the the opportunity to fly the aircraft.

  



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRodRB From Brazil, joined Feb 2010, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29747 times:

Press release by Embraer:

http://www.embraer.com.br/en-US/Impr...United-Airlines-para-30-EJets.aspx

btw, that's the second big order for Embraer this year!


User currently offlineSHAQ From Panama, joined Jun 2007, 378 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29705 times:

Also, United made an announcement at United Hub
https://hub.united.com/en-us/News/Company-Operations/Pages/united-express-to-get-new-embraer-jets.aspx
Kudos for United. This is a very comfy regional aircraft.



Studying hard, for flying right!
User currently offlinejetmatt777 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2799 posts, RR: 33
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 29496 times:

I bet we see these flown out of EWR.


No info
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 29362 times:

Me thinks these are for ExpressJet.


Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4106 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 29237 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 7):
Not really. No different than what DL did with the recent CR9 order. They'll own the jets, but contract the operation out to the regionals.

In that case, any chance part of the deal involves Embraer taking back 30 E145s (I believe UA also owns those)?

Certainly not complaining, this one definitely took me by surprise.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25438 posts, RR: 49
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 29134 times:

According to the Embraer press release - United also took 40 options

Also delivery is quite soon - first one in Q1 2014.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinewingnutmn From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 643 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 29135 times:

Would Express Jet give up a 2-1 or 3-1 on erj145 for say a 10 year capacity agreement? I don't know how well the integration negotiations are going, but it is only a matter of time when UA does what DL did. Get on board early and hopefully get a favorable term contract for the flying?

Wingnut



Any landing you can walk away from is a good landing! It's a bonus if you can fly the plane again!!
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 29106 times:

I can see the options being fulfilled and I really see these on high yield, but also long routes like IAH-DFW and Eastern Canada, and anywhere between EWR and ORD. I also don't really see these heading out west.


Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 28798 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 9):
One thing that sticks out to me is the E+ cabin being virtually half what it is on the CR7 and E70. Is this signaling a move away from more E+ or just a coincidence that they decided to adopt the DL config?

Yeah, me too. Unfortunately it makes me think they'll continue slashing elite benefits -- they already restricted E+ to silvers until T-24, so I wonder if this is coming for golds too...or worse, pulling the benefit at booking altogether. I've been an elite for a few years and its been one of my favorite benefits, because even if I don't get the complimentary upgrade, I know I'll still have a decent seat. In my opinion, 16 E+ seats is about 10 too few, so that definitely worries me.

What blows my mind is the 12F seats. A319s only have 8F! I suppose that's good for elites and will maybe free up some E+ seats as a result of complimentary upgrades, but it still baffles me.

Too many F seats and too few E+. Regardless, I can't complain with more E-jets because hopefully they'll replace some CRJs.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 16):
Me thinks these are for ExpressJet.

Me thinks you're right. I've heard a rumor that ExpressJet just got 175 manuals, but rumors from pilots don't often count for much. I think the only two likely operators are ExpressJet and SkyWest, but I'm personally hoping for the former.


User currently offlineE170Driver From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 3 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 28548 times:

As the pilots are always the last to know the details, I haven't heard anything, but does anyone think Shuttle America will be picking up the flying being how the training program and experience with the fleet is already in play?

[Edited 2013-04-29 16:56:00]

User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 28470 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 21):
What blows my mind is the 12F seats. A319s only have 8F! I suppose that's good for elites and will maybe free up some E+ seats as a result of complimentary upgrades, but it still baffles me.

Yeah that is worrying on the one hand. Although, I tend to think there is such a niche -- for 76ish total seats and you sell the 12F seats, but you just can't fill enough of the back to make the next bigger thing you have (319 or 73G) work. The problem domestically is that even if you can move the 12F at reasonable rates, those just aren't expensive enough to pay the bills like 20-30 J seats are on an int'l flight.


User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 28249 times:

Quoting E170Driver (Reply 22):
As the pilots are always the last to know the details, I haven't heard anything, but does anyone think Shuttle America will be picking up the flying being how the training program and experience with the fleet is already in play?

The press release talks about these E-jets will replace 50-seat capacity, and Republic(CHQ) only has 15 E145s operating for UAX. I think it is a much more likely event that Skywest/Expressjet will start reducing E145 capacity in exchange for these E175s.

According to wiki:
Expressjet-
14 CR2
9 E135
234 E145

[Edited 2013-04-29 17:14:36]


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User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 29421 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 23):
for 76ish total seats and you sell the 12F seats, but you just can't fill enough of the back to make the next bigger thing you have (319 or 73G) work.

I think we are reading too much into this. IIRC, the UA pilot contract limits them to 76 seats for Express operated planes, so that was the magic number and they probably had a decision to make the F 9 seats or 12 (assuming 3 across). If they went with 9 they may have had to all E+ in the back to make it work and that is not good either.
IIRC, if they go above 76 then it has to be operated by mainline crews. I expect to see an order in the future to do that, but they have time.

I believe this is a great solution to some of the pains that are out there for the 50 seaters.

I also love this that UA owns the aircraft because then they can determine the amenities on the aircraft. Like wifi and ovens. This is what DL is doing and it is proving successful.

Remember CO owned many of the expressjet planes for a long time, I am pretty sure that UA still owns more than a few of the express fleet, but all in the 50 seat size. This was not something pmUA did, ie buying planes for express ops.


User currently offlinedeltaflyertoo From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1653 posts, RR: 1
Reply 26, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 29009 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 12):
Now starts the fun.

Regional's can flight for the the opportunity to fly the aircraft.

Okay so I know so much about the industry but don't know the deets of how this works, so sorry if stupid question.

I thought that the regionals partnered with the mainline but had to supply their own aircraft. So when you hear of United placing order, is this to suggest United would own these aircraft and then allocate them to whatever regional they see fit as a form of a lease?


User currently offlinemurf From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 141 posts, RR: 0
Reply 27, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 29580 times:

In the picture in reply 1 the winglets look different....Will these 175's be coming with different winglets? They look larger and sweep out further...almost CRJ900ish...or is this just a bad picture

User currently offlineOH-LGA From Denmark, joined Oct 1999, 1436 posts, RR: 19
Reply 28, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 29308 times:

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 26):
I thought that the regionals partnered with the mainline but had to supply their own aircraft. So when you hear of United placing order, is this to suggest United would own these aircraft and then allocate them to whatever regional they see fit as a form of a lease?

Not a stupid question at all.

As you state it, in the past this has been how it has worked in general within the US airline industry. DL has done it differently for many years, handling the purchasing of the aircraft and then allocating them to their regional partners as they see fit.

The second part of your question/answer is that you essentially answered it yourself. With this order (which is a definite change for United strategically), United will own the aircraft and follow Delta's lead in assigning them to a United Express partner for actual operation.



Head in the clouds... yet feet planted firmly on the ground.
User currently offlineflyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1151 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 29302 times:

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 26):
Okay so I know so much about the industry but don't know the deets of how this works, so sorry if stupid question.

I thought that the regionals partnered with the mainline but had to supply their own aircraft. So when you hear of United placing order, is this to suggest United would own these aircraft and then allocate them to whatever regional they see fit as a form of a lease?

Pretty much. UA can hold the aircraft as bait and request proposals from all the regional carriers, and usually the cheapest bid wins. Partially explains why the regional airlines have such low pay and brutal working conditions.



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User currently offlineLHCVG From United States of America, joined May 2009, 1580 posts, RR: 2
Reply 30, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 29035 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 25):
I think we are reading too much into this. IIRC, the UA pilot contract limits them to 76 seats for Express operated planes, so that was the magic number and they probably had a decision to make the F 9 seats or 12 (assuming 3 across). If they went with 9 they may have had to all E+ in the back to make it work and that is not good either.
IIRC, if they go above 76 then it has to be operated by mainline crews. I expect to see an order in the future to do that, but they have time.

I get the 76-seat scope cap, my point was just that I can see how there may be legitimate demand in the system for routes with good F loads that are worth getting/keeping but, unlike international flights, that alone can't support a mainline flight.


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 16
Reply 31, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 28952 times:

I cant wait to take a ride on these. Any word on the routes they will used on???

KH



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently onlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1542 posts, RR: 12
Reply 32, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 28328 times:

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 9):
One thing that sticks out to me is the E+ cabin being virtually half what it is on the CR7 and E70. Is this signaling a move away from more E+ or just a coincidence that they decided to adopt the DL config?
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 21):
Yeah, me too. Unfortunately it makes me think they'll continue slashing elite benefits -- they already restricted E+ to silvers until T-24, so I wonder if this is coming for golds too...or worse, pulling the benefit at booking altogether. I've been an elite for a few years and its been one of my favorite benefits, because even if I don't get the complimentary upgrade, I know I'll still have a decent seat. In my opinion, 16 E+ seats is about 10 too few, so that definitely worries me.

What blows my mind is the 12F seats. A319s only have 8F! I suppose that's good for elites and will maybe free up some E+ seats as a result of complimentary upgrades, but it still baffles me.

Too many F seats and too few E+. Regardless, I can't complain with more E-jets because hopefully they'll replace some CRJs.

The E70 for UAX is actually 6F, 16 Y+, and 48 Y so the only difference between the E70 and E75 will be 6 first class seats. Regarding the A319, I'd bet that when they start reconfiguring them with the new slimline seats that 4 first class seats will be added for a 12F/112Y configuration.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1244 posts, RR: 19
Reply 33, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 28107 times:

For what it's worth.. Embraer brought an CT E175 in Mid February to St. George and Atlanta for a day at each HQ for display and then took it back down to the factory... They wouldn't bring that frame all the way up from Manaus and back down if it wasn't to their advantage... http://flightaware.com/live/flight/PTTHB

[Edited 2013-04-29 19:01:06]

User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2502 posts, RR: 2
Reply 34, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 27670 times:

Quoting OH-LGA (Reply 28):
The second part of your question/answer is that you essentially answered it yourself. With this order (which is a definite change for United strategically), United will own the aircraft and follow Delta's lead in assigning them to a United Express partner for actual operation.

Under this arrangement, who would perform maintenance? If it's mainline UA, then presumably the only cost benefit would derive from flight crews (front and back). Personally, I still can't wrap my head around the ridiculously deflated wages some regionals offer.

Either way, a nice move by UA - I hope it eventually pushes the CR2s out to pasture.

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 35, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 27412 times:

Quoting 777fan (Reply 34):
Under this arrangement, who would perform maintenance?

The regional who gets the contract does. It's part of contract fulfillment. If mainline MX fixed these planes, they'd essentially be working on planes that are not on their certificate, and thus would have to become subcontractors themselves to work on them.

Quoting 777fan (Reply 34):
Either way, a nice move by UA - I hope it eventually pushes the CR2s out to pasture.

Nope. It's just how they're going to meet the current 50 seat cap. Only the UA pilots can push 50 seat or less out entirely, and even they realize that they just can't do that without losing a LOT of markets and feed.



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User currently offlineCODC10 From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 2412 posts, RR: 6
Reply 36, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27393 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 21):
Too many F seats and too few E+.

And this is a problem why?  
Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 25):
I expect to see an order in the future to do that, but they have time.

A small mainline-operated jet (CSeries, MRJ, E-190/195) will be on property by 2016. The new pilot contract basically ensures that this will be the case.

Quoting FL787 (Reply 32):
Regarding the A319, I'd bet that when they start reconfiguring them with the new slimline seats that 4 first class seats will be added for a 12F/112Y configuration.

I don't think that this will be the case. Word is that an additional row of Y will be added, so the config will go to 8/118. I'd love to be proven wrong, though. We will find out soon enough as the first aircraft is in the shop undergoing the mods.


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21642 posts, RR: 55
Reply 37, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27298 times:

Quoting deltaflyertoo (Reply 26):
I thought that the regionals partnered with the mainline but had to supply their own aircraft. So when you hear of United placing order, is this to suggest United would own these aircraft and then allocate them to whatever regional they see fit as a form of a lease?

Correct. In an ideal world, we'd see a scope clause that states that mainline-owned aircraft must be flown by mainline crews, which would prevent that sort of whipsawing. But it's not going to happen, because the mainline pilots would have to give up something in order to get it, and the only people it would help would be regional pilots. A real shame.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13141 posts, RR: 100
Reply 38, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 27216 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
I did not see this one coming, have I slept under a rock?

I feel the same way. I figured UA would order more 'larger RJ flying,' but I didn't expect them to by the jets.

Quoting RodRB (Reply 13):
tw, that's the second big order for Embraer this year!

Kudos to them. That will help keep the line going until E-jets with Pratts go out the door.   

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 18):
first one in Q1 2014.

I'm confused. We're at the limit of the window for long lead time parts. Did Embraer have parts on order 'at risk' or are the vendors getting hit right now?

LIghtsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 60
Reply 39, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 26960 times:

Maybe the 12F can be looked at this way. It pleases the elites with a good chance of upgrade on regional routes where the block time is too short for any 21st century business to pay for F but winning over business travelers is still important. Yet the flights are short enough that Y+ won't appeal to as many paying willing to pay other than a token amount like $9.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineinaforeignsky From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2013, 39 posts, RR: 1
Reply 40, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 26762 times:

When we (XJT) were bought by Skywest Inc. in 2010, part of the deal agreed with CAL was that Skywest Inc. and thus ExpressJet would be given first refusal on the first 75 replacement aircraft for the ExpressJet 50 seaters when they started to be taken out of service. When I flew with one of our Chief Pilots back at the beginning of the year he said that the 170/175 program was already in place from back in 2007 when we nearly bought the 170 for our branded operation out west.

We have had some very strong indications in recent months that the 175s will be coming our way. Not least with our contract having recently (just three weeks ago) been amended to include rates for up to 79 seat aircraft. As a pilot group we were very upset at the new rate agreed as it makes us one of the cheapest 70+ seat pilot groups out there.

I can't see Republic getting these aircraft, particularly after just getting the 47 new 175s for AE. Compass might be in the running for them, but I would think it unlikely. Skywest Airlines is very much a CRJ airline, and I don't see that changing any time soon, plus if the aircraft were for SKW the company would have financed the purchase themselves. However, at ExpressJet a great number of our aircraft are still owned by United Continental Holdings and so I can see this being a very simple swap. However, I have a feeling it will be at least 2 145s for every 175 that comes on property.


User currently offlinesilentbob From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 2104 posts, RR: 1
Reply 41, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 26302 times:

Quoting inaforeignsky (Reply 40):
I can't see Republic getting these aircraft, particularly after just getting the 47 new 175s for AE.

Like most regionals Republic is having problems hiring enough pilots right now. They are going to have enough problems filling the slots for the Eagle flying, I can't see any way they could do the United flying as well.

Quoting inaforeignsky (Reply 40):
I can see this being a very simple swap. However, I have a feeling it will be at least 2 145s for every 175 that comes on property.

That makes sense and will require fewer pilots, something that will appeal to most regionals right now.


User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 42, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 26100 times:

If these are for ExpressJet, then would the simulator go to Houston or Atlanta?


Go coogs! \n//
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 43, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 26054 times:

Quoting inaforeignsky (Reply 40):
Skywest Airlines is very much a CRJ airline, and I don't see that changing any time soon, plus if the aircraft were for SKW the company would have financed the purchase themselves.

SKYW is a little tied up with MRJ funding right now.



Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineF9animal From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 5055 posts, RR: 28
Reply 44, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 26029 times:

I wonder if UA is looking close at the C Series?


I Am A Different Animal!!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13141 posts, RR: 100
Reply 45, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 26014 times:
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Quoting F9animal (Reply 44):

I wonder if UA is looking close at the C Series?

I could dream.    But that would have been an MRJ order for this size of aircraft.  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 2079 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 25235 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 45):
I could dream.    But that would have been an MRJ order for this size of aircraft.  

Well, what does the new pilot contract say about scope?



Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlinejolau1701 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 47, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 24806 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 43):

That's what I was thinking too.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 48, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 23969 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):

C-Series doesn't compete with the E175. Also UAX can't operate the C-Series.


User currently offlineLogos From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 793 posts, RR: 1
Reply 49, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 23534 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 21):
What blows my mind is the 12F seats. A319s only have 8F! I suppose that's good for elites and will maybe free up some E+ seats as a result of complimentary upgrades, but it still baffles me.
Quoting LHCVG (Reply 23):
Yeah that is worrying on the one hand. Although, I tend to think there is such a niche -- for 76ish total seats and you sell the 12F seats, but you just can't fill enough of the back to make the next bigger thing you have (319 or 73G) work. The problem domestically is that even if you can move the 12F at reasonable rates, those just aren't expensive enough to pay the bills like 20-30 J seats are on an int'l flight.

It's called scope, folks. Their contract with mainline pilots limits regional aircraft to 76 seats, just like at Delta, which is why the relatively high number of F in this aircraft and CR9s as well. It's not really any more complicated than that.

Cheers,
Dave in Orlando



Too many types flown to list
User currently onlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1542 posts, RR: 12
Reply 50, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 23077 times:

Quoting CODC10 (Reply 36):
I don't think that this will be the case. Word is that an additional row of Y will be added, so the config will go to 8/118. I'd love to be proven wrong, though. We will find out soon enough as the first aircraft is in the shop undergoing the mods.

Well that would be disappointing if true. 8F was chosen at a time when UA did not have the current elite upgrade system in place and I would have thought they might go for consistency with the 320 and the same number of F seats that DL and US (and soon AA) have on their 319s.



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 23031 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 6):
12 seats in first class on a regional jet is a lot it will be interesting to see what routes United deploys these aircraft on.

Simply matches DL and the new AA's configuration for the same aircraft.

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 21):
Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 16):
Me thinks these are for ExpressJet.

Me thinks you're right. I've heard a rumor that ExpressJet just got 175 manuals, but rumors from pilots don't often count for much. I think the only two likely operators are ExpressJet and SkyWest, but I'm personally hoping for the former.

I agree that ExpressJet is the likely operator. However, I wouldn't rule out Compass either. The configuration matches the 175s that Compass already flies for DL and Trans States Holdings has a long-standing relationship with UA.

Quoting murf (Reply 27):
In the picture in reply 1 the winglets look different....Will these 175's be coming with different winglets? They look larger and sweep out further...almost CRJ900ish...or is this just a bad picture

The E175 Enhanced has different winglets. They are the same as those pictured in Republic's American Eagle 175 image.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 52, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 22867 times:

This order was expected considering their new mainline pilots contract. The contract contains the following with regards to regional aircraft:

Quote:

No 76-seat aircraft until Jan. 1, 2014; current legacy United 70-seat and turboprop limits until then
- After Jan 1, 2014: Cap 70-/76-seat aircraft at 255 hulls; no more than 130 76-seat aircraft
- Q400 included in 76-seat aircraft count limits (currently no limit in legacy Continental contract)
- UAL currently has 148 70-seat aircraft and 35 Q400s
- Under United Pilot Agreement definitions, UAL currently has 183 of the 255 70/76-seat aircraft
• After Jan. 1, 2016: Cap 76-seat aircraft at 153
• Can only go above 153 76-seat aircraft if new small narrowbody aircraft added to UAL fleet and forces reduction of 70-seat aircraft from 148 to 102 cap
• Must park 50-seat aircraft if going above 153 76-seat aircraft
• Maximum UAX hard cap of 450 total hulls, from current 588
• All 76-seat aircraft downgraded to 70-seats (remove seats) if furlough
• New small narrowbody aircraft – we fly it, forces reduction in UAX block hour ratio limit and number of 50- seat aircraft

Credit to future ualpilot in the following thread for the information:

http://www.airliners.net/aviation-fo...al_aviation/read.main/5609610/1/#1

When all is said and done the UAX fleet will be capped at 450 frames, down from the current 588. A lot of 50 seaters are going to be parked, currently there are 374 35-50 seat RJs (ERJ-135, ERJ-145, CRJ). By 2016 the 50 seat fleet should be down to about 100.

Quoting F9animal (Reply 44):
I wonder if UA is looking close at the C Series?

Yes but not for UAX, but for mainline.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4285 posts, RR: 1
Reply 53, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 22809 times:
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Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 51):
I agree that ExpressJet is the likely operator. However, I wouldn't rule out Compass either. The configuration matches the 175s that Compass already flies for DL and Trans States Holdings has a long-standing relationship with UA.

I've flown the DL 175s IAD-MSP (in the back). Don't they have ovens? I notice that on DL the F-class folks have meal service.

Anyway, the DL 175s are a bit cramped in the back. So . . . will the UA 175s have E+?
Or will they be configured like the UA 170s and CR7s?


User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 22618 times:

Bigger RJ's may lead to less frequencys between some cities!


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineUnited1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 5969 posts, RR: 9
Reply 55, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 22637 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 53):
will the UA 175s have E+?
Or will they be configured like the UA 170s and CR7s?

The 175s will have 16 Y+ seats...

UAs 170s and CR7s already are configured for F/Y+/Y.



Semper Fi - PowerPoint makes us stupid.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7595 posts, RR: 18
Reply 56, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 22520 times:

Quoting redzeppelin (Reply 8):
Same configuration used by DL Connection.

Hmm this is interesting....is UA going to operate this under Shuttle America?

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 2):
Source? United Continental Holdings bought their own regional jets? That kind of flies in the face of what most airlines have been doing as of late with regionals.

Just for future reference, Airliners won't allow any links from the WSJ to be linked here for whatever reason.



次は、渋谷、渋谷。出口は、右側です。電車とホームの間は広く開いておりますので、足元に注意下さい。
User currently offlineAA777 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 2544 posts, RR: 28
Reply 57, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 22442 times:
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Quoting ikramerica (Reply 39):

I'm sure they have statistics about who tends to buy a Y+ upgrade vs. who is elite and receives automatic upgrades etc, i.e., on which sectors Y+ is most popular. There arent going to be routes on the E175 that go much beyond 3.5 hours, if that. (Average will prob. be 1-2 hours, I'd guess) So... that's different than a transcon, where a person such as myself (6'3") cannot tolerate being jammed in coach for 5-6 hours. I can handle 2-3 hours in regular coach. But beyond that, I am happy to pay whatever I need to pay for th extra leg room.

For example  


User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 58, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 22264 times:

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 53):
I've flown the DL 175s IAD-MSP (in the back). Don't they have ovens? I notice that on DL the F-class folks have meal service.

The Compass E-175s definitely have ovens, as NW had hot meal service on the CR9 and E75. DL typically just has cold options on Delta Connection meal flights, so I'm not sure if the S5 E75's have the ovens.



Good goes around!
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 941 posts, RR: 2
Reply 59, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 21549 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 21):
Yeah, me too. Unfortunately it makes me think they'll continue slashing elite benefits -- they already restricted E+ to silvers until T-24, so I wonder if this is coming for golds too...or worse, pulling the benefit at booking altogether. I've been an elite for a few years and its been one of my favorite benefits, because even if I don't get the complimentary upgrade, I know I'll still have a decent seat. In my opinion, 16 E+ seats is about 10 too few, so that definitely worries me.

What blows my mind is the 12F seats. A319s only have 8F! I suppose that's good for elites and will maybe free up some E+ seats as a result of complimentary upgrades, but it still baffles me.

Here we go again with people thinking UA is again cutting elite benefits because there will only be 16 E+ seats and silver member have to wait till 24 hours prior to departure to get the seat for free we all feel your pain.    If you are afraid that there won't be any seats remaining in E+ spend the $30-$45 extra dollars and BUY the E+ seat or move up to gold status at any rate UA is not cutting benefits for elite members just because these aircraft will have a small E+ cabin.

The truth is these aircraft are going to be UAX aircraft and according to the contract that UA has with the pilots UAX aircraft can have a maximum of 76 seats on board any thing above the 76 seat threshold means the aircraft is no longer a UAX aircraft but a mainline aircraft which would be flown and worked by UA pilots and UA flight attendants. This has nothing to do with cutting benefits for elites these aircraft will have 12 seats in first class the most on any regional jet in the UAX fleet and just for the record that is more first class seats than UA has on their A319 fleet. Oh but I almost forgot silver members don't receive complementary upgrades into first class on regional flights.   


User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4106 posts, RR: 5
Reply 60, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 21435 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 59):
Oh but I almost forgot silver members don't receive complementary upgrades into first class on regional flights.

Not disagreeing with you on the absurdity of elite complaints, but is this actually true? I find it hard to believe UA would have a different upgrade policy on regional than on mainline.


User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 61, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 21074 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 60):
I find it hard to believe UA would have a different upgrade policy on regional than on mainline.

United's entire M.O. with regional flights is to degrade the entire experience to make themselves look better in comparison. (which is really saying a lot since even Delta's regional product has been better than United's domestic first for quite some time now---even if it IS a cold meal.)

[Edited 2013-04-30 08:11:24]


Two all beef patties, special sauce, lettuce, cheese, pickles, onions on a sesame seed bun.
User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 62, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 20926 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 60):
Not disagreeing with you on the absurdity of elite complaints, but is this actually true? I find it hard to believe UA would have a different upgrade policy on regional than on mainline.

No, he was being sarcastic...


User currently offline2travel2know2 From Panama, joined Apr 2010, 2631 posts, RR: 1
Reply 63, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 20818 times:

12F seats could mean that those E175 may be seen on UA international flights, specially if that aircraft could be used to fly 4h30m non-stop segments.
Pretty sure those will have 2 lavatories unlike other similar aircraft of its size/capacity.



I'm not on CM's payroll.
User currently offlineAlias1024 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2760 posts, RR: 2
Reply 64, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 20510 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 63):
Pretty sure those will have 2 lavatories unlike other similar aircraft of its size/capacity.

DL CRJ-900s are configured to 76 seats with two lavatories. It wouldn't be at all exceptional if UA put two lavs in their 76 seat aircraft.



It is a mistake to think you can solve any major problems with just potatoes.
User currently offlineABQopsHP From United States of America, joined May 2006, 851 posts, RR: 3
Reply 65, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 19891 times:

Quoting inaforeignsky (Reply 40):

About a year ago, just as we got the announcement that the XJT ground employees were going to be furloughed, we had heard that E170 or 175s were likely coming into the fold. That from our Regional Manager out of IAH. I can see these being used out of IAH on routes such as the one mentioned above. IAH-BDL or poss. IAH-ABQ/ELP/COS or TUS.

JD CRP



A line is evidence that other people exist.
User currently offlineC767P From United States of America, joined Oct 2008, 886 posts, RR: 2
Reply 66, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 19959 times:

Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 63):
12F seats could mean that those E175 may be seen on UA international flights, specially if that aircraft could be used to fly 4h30m non-stop segments.

The new UA pilot contract limits 80% of UAX flying to flights under 900 miles. So won't see them doing many flights of 4.5 hours.


User currently offlineODwyerPW From Mexico, joined Dec 2004, 861 posts, RR: 3
Reply 67, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 19723 times:

Kudos to Embraer. I love flying the EmbraerJets. The 175 has become so popular. Amazing that it was almost an afterthought. Embraer originally launched the 170 and the 190-100 and the 190-200. Launching the 175, led to the 170/175/190/195 name changes.


Quiero una vida simple en Mexico. Nada mas.
User currently offlineMSPNWA From United States of America, joined Apr 2009, 1950 posts, RR: 2
Reply 68, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 19312 times:

Glad to see that United is going with the E175 over, say, a CR9. Very comfortable aircraft.

Not glad to see them being flown by regional carriers instead of mainline however.

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 51):
I agree that ExpressJet is the likely operator. However, I wouldn't rule out Compass either. The configuration matches the 175s that Compass already flies for DL and Trans States Holdings has a long-standing relationship with UA.

Very true. I hadn't thought about the possibility of Compass flying some of these aircraft.


User currently onlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4285 posts, RR: 1
Reply 69, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18242 times:
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Quoting 2travel2know2 (Reply 63):
12F seats could mean that those E175 may be seen on UA international flights, specially if that aircraft could be used to fly 4h30m non-stop segments.

Not sure what you mean by "international".

CR-2s already fly DEN-YYC/YEG, IAD-YYZ, and SFO-YYJ. E145s fly all over Mexico from Houston and all over eastern Canada from EWR as well as IAH-NAS, and IAD-YHZ


User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1046 posts, RR: 1
Reply 70, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18128 times:

Quoting jayunited (Reply 59):
Here we go again with people thinking UA is again cutting elite benefits because there will only be 16 E+ seats and silver member have to wait till 24 hours prior to departure to get the seat for free we all feel your pain. If you are afraid that there won't be any seats remaining in E+ spend the $30-$45 extra dollars and BUY the E+ seat or move up to gold status at any rate UA is not cutting benefits for elite members just because these aircraft will have a small E+ cabin.

Right on....you complainers are all nuts. We are going from 50 seat CRJs and ERJ's w/o first or E+ to an industry standard 76 seat plane w/12 (WOW for an RJ) first and 16 E+ (25% of all seats). That's the upgrade sir. If you don't like it as a Silver, you can pay the $ as suggested or become a gold. If not, tough cause if you switch to AA or DL you'll get the same a/c.

Let's be happy for the more comfortable ride and move along.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9449 posts, RR: 14
Reply 71, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 17802 times:

Quoting E170Driver (Reply 22):

Source? United Continental Holdings bought their own regional jets? That kind of flies in the face of what most airlines have been doing as of late with regionals.

The only carrier who hasn't been doing this is AMR.
but they have been selling/leasing back the majority of the mainline fleet also. (and all the A32S are coming on lease) So i guess they don't want to own any assets.

Delta on the other hand owns the majority of its RJ fleet. The bulk of the CR2s at 9E (the largest CR2 operator) is owned by Delta, leased to 9E. Almost all the big RJs are owned by Delta. (most of the OO fleet and some of EVs fleet is owned by Skywest and I believe all of the S5 EMBs are owned by RH, the rest of DCIs 70/76 seaters are owned by Delta)
This makes changing things around much easier for Delta. Also if say G7 was shut down tomorrow, Delta can just take its aircraft and move them on to another carrier. Its kind of like how the majors have added a ton of carriers to their express/connection network, it just gives them more of an ability to control the carriers and gives them protections if bad things happen.

Quoting flyby519 (Reply 24):

The press release talks about these E-jets will replace 50-seat capacity, and Republic(CHQ) only has 15 E145s operating for UAX. I think it is a much more likely event that Skywest/Expressjet will start reducing E145 capacity in exchange for these E175s.

I would think the OO/EV will benefit here. Start pulling down 50 seat capacity for 76 seat capacity. They have already been willing to do so for Delta. (and it looks like the bulk of the 50 seat flying that will stay will be on OO/EV and the little bit of E45s RP has for Delta)

wasn't too long that EMB had a E70 in Atlanta at the EV hangar for a look around. Maybe that was more than just the normal showing off the product thing OEMs tend to do.



yep.
User currently offlineJAAlbert From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1604 posts, RR: 1
Reply 72, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 16776 times:

I love these small twin jet regional planes. They are comfortable and different than the usual 737/320 offering.

How do they compare to the new C-series jets that are supposed to be coming down the pike (er runway) soon?


User currently offlineflight152 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 3399 posts, RR: 6
Reply 73, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 16416 times:

Quoting JAAlbert (Reply 72):
I love these small twin jet regional planes

As opposed to the non existent single engine regional jets?

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 69):
E145s fly all over Mexico from Houston and all over eastern Canada from EWR as well as IAH-NAS, and IAD-YHZ

There are more cities then that. YWG, YYT, YYZ, YUL, YQB. Also, there is no direct IAD-YHZ. YHZ has service to EWR and ORD.


User currently offlineatcsundevil From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 1205 posts, RR: 2
Reply 74, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 16199 times:

Quoting Logos (Reply 49):
It's called scope, folks. Their contract with mainline pilots limits regional aircraft to 76 seats, just like at Delta, which is why the relatively high number of F in this aircraft and CR9s as well. It's not really any more complicated than that.

Thanks I didn't know that   It is actually more complicated than that, because 8 or 10 F seats with more than 16 E+ would give the same result of 76. The only thing I can figure with this arrangement is that they have a specific plan to deploy the aircraft on heavy premium/elite markets and/or need that many F seats to keep the airplane profitable.

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 51):
I agree that ExpressJet is the likely operator. However, I wouldn't rule out Compass either. The configuration matches the 175s that Compass already flies for DL and Trans States Holdings has a long-standing relationship with UA.

I'm not sure I'd rule out many contenders because I've been surprised by enough nonsensical decisions in this industry over the years, but I think the evidence points strongly to ExpressJet being the most likely contender. Just my opinion, though. Obviously time will tell!

Quoting jayunited (Reply 59):
Here we go again with people thinking UA is again cutting elite benefits because there will only be 16 E+ seats and silver member have to wait till 24 hours prior to departure to get the seat for free we all feel your pain.    If you are afraid that there won't be any seats remaining in E+ spend the $30-$45 extra dollars and BUY the E+ seat or move up to gold status at any rate UA is not cutting benefits for elite members just because these aircraft will have a small E+ cabin.

Thinking? No, they HAVE cut benefits. The merger dropped or downgraded benefits for every level, which screwed Million Milers more than anyone. There is no reason for you to make your post so damn personal -- I'm not a silver, but I can lament with them because it was a previously offered benefit more valuable for silvers/premiers than complimentary upgrades. If anything, it's better for me with my status because I have a better selection of E+ seats when I book, but it doesn't change the fact that in 2011 people spent a few thousand dollars for 2012 status that was later changed to restrict that benefit, among others. Million Milers got even more screwed to the point that several dozen have filed class action lawsuits.

Cut the personal crap and debate the topic on merit and actual intelligence instead of attacking me based on my opinion that UA has devalued its elites since the merger. We're all entitled to our opinions, so how about you respect mine while I respect yours?

Quoting jayunited (Reply 59):
Oh but I almost forgot silver members don't receive complementary upgrades into first class on regional flights.

Obviously you didn't read what I said..

Quote:
Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 21):
What blows my mind is the 12F seats. A319s only have 8F! I suppose that's good for elites and will maybe free up some E+ seats as a result of complimentary upgrades, but it still baffles me.


User currently offlineN908AW From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 934 posts, RR: 1
Reply 75, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 16078 times:

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 68):
Very true. I hadn't thought about the possibility of Compass flying some of these aircraft.

This would be a big get for Compass, exactly the kind of thing Trans States was looking for when they made this purchase. The fact that United didn't have a regional partner already figured out when they made this decision tells me that it's not quite a clear-cut ExpressJet handoff. There are other fish biting on this one, methinks...and Shuttle and Compass may both be in on this one to some extent. Don't forget about the possibility that United may split these up, too.

The most logical option is to send it to Shuttle America to ensure the fewest headaches operationally, but RAH is putting a lot into ramping up the American operation and may not be so willing to jeopardize that right now. 30+ more aircraft beginning just 6 months after the American E175 deal begins is doable for Shuttle, but it's not ideal at the moment as it necessitates more hiring and more financial commitment.

United needs to solve its 50-seat addiction soon though, and many of the signs both on this forum and elsewhere point to ExpressJet getting some or all of these 175s. And that's an equitable outcome for EV considering how many of their -145s will end up in the scrap heap in the not-so-distant future.



'Cause you're on ATA again, and on ATA, you're on vacation!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25438 posts, RR: 49
Reply 76, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16050 times:

Republic had some interesting things to say this morning.

They said they saw more flying opportunities in the 2014-2015 timeframe, and made specific mention of the new United order.

They also went on to say, they were unsure if UA would actually ever take delivery of these planes, or simply hand them over to a regional partner to finance. They were of the opinion UA simply was getting in line to lock down delivery slots and frames while it worked through how to structure things.

So sounds like the ball is still up in air according to how Republic sees it.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinejayunited From United States of America, joined Jan 2013, 941 posts, RR: 2
Reply 77, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 16012 times:

Quoting atcsundevil (Reply 74):
Thinking? No, they HAVE cut benefits. The merger dropped or downgraded benefits for every level, which screwed Million Milers more than anyone. There is no reason for you to make your post so damn personal -- I'm not a silver, but I can lament with them because it was a previously offered benefit more valuable for silvers/premiers than complimentary upgrades. If anything, it's better for me with my status because I have a better selection of E+ seats when I book, but it doesn't change the fact that in 2011 people spent a few thousand dollars for 2012 status that was later changed to restrict that benefit, among others. Million Milers got even more screwed to the point that several dozen have filed class action lawsuits.

Cut the personal crap and debate the topic on merit and actual intelligence instead of attacking me based on my opinion that UA has devalued its elites since the merger. We're all entitled to our opinions, so how about you respect mine while I respect yours?

I didn't bring up the cut in benefits you did and I just responded to the post that you put up where you some how came up with the ridiculous idea that because UA will only have 16 E+ seats on these aircraft that UA is now once again reducing benefits for their elite customers. You said and I will now quote your first post "Unfortunately it makes me think they'll continue slashing elite benefits -- they already restricted E+ to silvers until T-24, so I wonder if this is coming for golds too...or worse, pulling the benefit at booking altogether. I've been an elite for a few years and its been one of my favorite benefits, because even if I don't get the complimentary upgrade, I know I'll still have a decent seat. In my opinion, 16 E+ seats is about 10 too few, so that definitely worries me." End quote.

I didn't take your response personal but it seems as though you took my response to your post extremely personal. Because while you are saying that you fill like UA by not having 10 more E+ seats is continuing to cut elite benefits you seem to have forgotten that the aircraft will have 12 first class seats on them instead of 6 which means more G.S. and/or 1K customers will be able to upgrade into first class if UA does not sell all 12 seats. A benefit that obviously does not apply to you because I am sure that if you were a 1K or a G.S. passengers then you would see the addition of 6 more seats in first as an added benefit not UA continuing to cut elite benefits.


User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 15636 times:

Seems like this may headed EV/OO way, even though UA hasn't specifically announced their choice of carrier. Esp. how there may be a underlying agreement regarding their 50 seat flying between UA and EV/OO.

If EV is able get this flying I feel that would put them in a position not only to fly the E175 for UA, but also go after DL E170/175 flying. If this happens that begs the question what will happen with the MRJ order if EV can emerge an E-Jet operator.


User currently onlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 60
Reply 79, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 15472 times:

Quoting AA777 (Reply 57):

That's my point. For 1-2 hour flights, UA gets more back in loyalty from "segment based elites" who appreciate the assured upgrade with 12F than would get in very marginal revenue with more Y+. My guess is that they would end up giving away Y+ seats to non elites to avoid empty seats.

I'm 6-3 as well and don't need Y+ below 2 hours unless regular Y is below 31".



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4285 posts, RR: 1
Reply 80, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 15275 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting flight152 (Reply 73):
there is no direct IAD-YHZ.

Actually -- nonstop service is seasonal and comes and goes with regularity.

This year daily service starts July 2nd and ends August 26th.

NB - Leaves Dulles 8:15am (EDT) and arrives Halifax 11:31am (ADT).
SB - Leaves Halifax 9:21am (ADT) and arrives Dulles 10:55am (EDT).

Flight numbers and equipment vary.


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2900 posts, RR: 9
Reply 81, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14940 times:
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Congrats to United. I love that airplane. As for so many F seats, remember corp contracts and Star Gold and those willing to pay. Someone in international J or Global F connecting from somewhere else should get an F seat on an RJ. How many people even fly from LGA/JFK/EWR to a big United hub? Today it's a prop or CRJ. Often I have selected a flight from IAD and take a puddle jumper down for a J or F seat to a destination only served from IAD.

Great news. And they are beautiful jets.



The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1244 posts, RR: 19
Reply 82, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14926 times:

Statement from Brad Holt of EV in regards to the UA E175 announcement

"Most of you know that United announced late Monday it will purchase 30 three-class E175s from Embraer for delivery in 2014 and 2015. That announcement did not include United’s choice of regional partner to operate these aircraft, and unfortunately these 30 aircraft are not slated to come to ExpressJet. This is disappointing news to all of us, but please know that we will continue to work with our major partners to gain additional flying; I still believe there is significant opportunity out there for us as we continue to improve our operation and become more efficient."


User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 14754 times:

Quoting N908AW (Reply 75):
Don't forget about the possibility that United may split these up, too.

Hmm, never thought about that possibility. My initial thought was that RAH's resources are spread too thin between finishing Q400 ramp up and starting the AA program to take on 30 aircraft on that type of timeline, but if they were say to split it between S5 and CP, that might be more manageable of a ramp up for both carriers. Both holdings companies also operate 50 seat RJ's for UA as well.

Quoting PHLapproach (Reply 82):

Interesting development.

[Edited 2013-05-01 06:48:46]

[Edited 2013-05-01 07:15:43]


Good goes around!
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1572 posts, RR: 4
Reply 84, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 13808 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 38):
I figured UA would order more 'larger RJ flying,' but I didn't expect them to by the jets.

Why not? About half of their upper management (at least) is already used to the idea...

Quoting inaforeignsky (Reply 40):
However, at ExpressJet a great number of our aircraft are still owned by United Continental Holdings

Pretty sure all of the E145s are owned/leased by UAL and then sub-leased to ExpressJet.

Quoting inaforeignsky (Reply 40):
However, I have a feeling it will be at least 2 145s for every 175 that comes on property.

In a lot of markets you could do one 76-seater flight and carry the same passengers that two 50-seaters running an hour apart are carrying now without losing more than a couple of basement fare passengers...

Quoting N908AW (Reply 75):
The fact that United didn't have a regional partner already figured out when they made this decision tells me that it's not quite a clear-cut ExpressJet handoff.

A later post would seem to back that up, but I'm still hopeful that ExpressJet will get some of them... I deal with them most of my day and I'm really getting sick of E145s...



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlineKrisair747 From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 234 posts, RR: 1
Reply 85, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 13450 times:

I know its a long shot, but I wonder if Air Wisconsin will once again become a UAX flying partner? Who's to say their hat isn't in the ring? With the uncertainty of the US/AA merger on its Regionals, ZW has to start looking else where and with new equipment.


Open your heart and push the limits
User currently offlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13294 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 52):
This order was expected considering their new mainline pilots contract.

It's unfortunate there is still scope language in the contract. If they were willing to pay their regional pilots UA scale, they could have had as many of these 175's as they wanted.

As it is, I don't think Smisek is smart enough to know how to use the airplanes, so they won't be showing up on the routes from Houston to Mexico anytime soon.


User currently offlineAVENSAB727 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 937 posts, RR: 1
Reply 87, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 13269 times:

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 86):
so they won't be showing up on the routes from Houston to Mexico anytime soon.

How do you know? They have not been delivered yet. It is most likely up to the network planners to decide on what routes the planes go on.



Always look on the bright side of Life!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13141 posts, RR: 100
Reply 88, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13238 times:
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Good questions, who will fly these E175s?

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 84):
Why not? About half of their upper management (at least) is already used to the idea...

Because the other half were working 'old school.'   Also as this will create friction if Expressjet doesn't fly the planes and I think UA should bid out the work.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineamwest2united From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 89, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 12917 times:
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Quoting FL787 (Reply 32):
I'd bet that when they start reconfiguring them with the new slimline seats that 4 first class seats will be added for a 12F/112Y configuration

You would lose - 8/42/78 - 128



Life is what happens to you while you making plans to live it!
User currently onlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4285 posts, RR: 1
Reply 90, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12719 times:
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Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 86):
they won't be showing up on the routes from Houston to Mexico anytime soon.

But . . . the 170s fly out of Houston -- I know because I've flown on them.

Why, then, would the 175s be dispatched differently?


User currently offlineVC10er From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 2900 posts, RR: 9
Reply 91, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 12459 times:
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What do the F seats look like? I can't recall. All I do remember are very old looking small F seats.


The world is missing love, let's use our flights to spread it!
User currently onlineFL787 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 1542 posts, RR: 12
Reply 92, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 12381 times:

Quoting amwest2united (Reply 89):

Interesting, surprised they didn't go with 12F/114Y like DL. Thanks for sharing. Any idea what the new 320 configuration will be? 12F/42Y+/96Y?



717,72S,732/3/4/5/G/8/9,744,752/3,763/4,772/3,D9S/5,M8/90,D10,319/20/21,332/3,388,CR2/7/9,EM2,ER4,E70/75/90,SF3,AR8
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6197 posts, RR: 34
Reply 93, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 12311 times:

Quoting VC10er (Reply 91):
All I do remember are very old looking small F seats.

I guess perception is everything. The E170 F seats are up to 3" wider than any other UA NB F class seat.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinefloridaflyboy From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 2015 posts, RR: 0
Reply 94, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 12026 times:

Republic's Bryan Bedford said late last week in a memo to employees that RAH "does not want to create false hope that we're on the short list" to operate this airplane.

According to sources at Compass, they have also been advised that these aircraft aren't destined for them.

This is getting interesting. The only possible players that I can think of left who haven't told their employees they aren't getting the airplanes or are unlikely to get the airplanes are Air Wisconsin and SkyWest Airlines. Can anyone else think of any? (Of course assuming that since compass isn't getting them, that rules out Trans States Holdings entirely).

There have been some pilot rumor murmurings of United pulling a NW-style buy an operating certificate and start a wholly owned like Compass. Of course, we all know the validity of pilot rumors typically.



Good goes around!
User currently offlineFlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 95, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11939 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 88):
Good questions, who will fly these E175s?

Answer: The lowest bidder.

We already know that it wasn't ExpressJet or Compass.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently offlineT5towbar From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 560 posts, RR: 1
Reply 96, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 11919 times:

Can we say "Whipsaw".................?

It always goes to the lowest bidder.



A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 97, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11394 times:

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 95):
Answer: The lowest bidder.

Nay. Usually, the best value wins, which could possibly be the lowest bidder. However, more than likely, there will be NO bidder for this, since this is not an RFP.



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User currently offlinexpfg From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 633 posts, RR: 7
Reply 98, posted (1 year 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11419 times:

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 94):
The only possible players that I can think of left who haven't told their employees they aren't getting the airplanes or are unlikely to get the airplanes are Air Wisconsin and SkyWest Airlines.

Without divulging a very trustworthy source (from corporate), OO has been discussed on taking these on heavily before it was even announced by UA by those who know.

I would not be surprised to see these under the OO banner.

[Edited 2013-05-06 21:16:36]

User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 99, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10738 times:

And a winner is: SkyWest!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united...add-40-more-embraer-104840742.html

edited to reflect that not all 70 are filled.

[Edited 2013-05-21 04:27:59]


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User currently onlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 841 posts, RR: 1
Reply 100, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 10730 times:
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Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 99):
And the winner is: SkyWest!

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united....html

No, Skywest gets the 40 additional 175s, I do not think the operator for this first group of 30 is any clearer at this point.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 101, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10652 times:

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 100):
first group of 30 is any clearer at this point

Or would that be the 2nd group of 30?



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User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 102, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10746 times:

On further investigation, these initial 40 will be self-financed by SKYW, inc., and up to another 60 to be ordered once contract negotiations with their other partners are completed, plus options of up to 100 more.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...on-of-embraer-jets.html?cmpid=yhoo



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User currently offlinePHLapproach From Philippines, joined Mar 2004, 1244 posts, RR: 19
Reply 103, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10681 times:

"Earlier today our parent company, SkyWest, Inc., announced it has entered into an agreement with Embraer to purchase 100 E175 aircraft with options for an additional 100 E175s. At the same time, SkyWest, Inc. announced that the first 40 of these aircraft will be flown in a 12-year capacity purchase agreement (CPA) with United Airlines and will be operated by SkyWest Airlines. The 76-seat, dual-class aircraft will be delivered beginning in April 2014. The placement of the remaining aircraft remains to be determined."

"This aircraft order is separate from the 30 E175s that United announced last month. Since that time, I’ve heard from many of you about how disappointed you are that ExpressJet was not awarded those aircraft. While today’s announcement from SkyWest, Inc. is positive in that our parent company has secured a significant number of delivery slots for the future, I know it’s disappointing to all of us that ExpressJet is not slated to take delivery of this first group of aircraft. This announcement does not mean that we will not be awarded future aircraft, and because of that, we are continuing our work with the FAA on the certification process for the E175 to ensure we are in a position to quickly put the aircraft into service if and/or when we get that opportunity."

As stated this new order is not related to the 30 UA purchased. Bearing this news, those 30 I could see now going to S5.


User currently offlineFlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 104, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10240 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 97):
Nay. Usually, the best value wins, which could possibly be the lowest bidder. However, more than likely, there will be NO bidder for this, since this is not an RFP.

No. In today's environment, it's the lowest bidder.



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 105, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 10225 times:

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 104):
No. In today's environment, it's the lowest bidder.

If that were true, then GoJets would have won every RFP since their inception.



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User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4106 posts, RR: 5
Reply 106, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10080 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 102):
On further investigation, these initial 40 will be self-financed by SKYW, inc., and up to another 60 to be ordered once contract negotiations with their other partners are completed, plus options of up to 100 more.

So...any chance this means a good chunk of those OO CR2s are going away soon?


User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 107, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10092 times:

So the question still remains....who is flying the EJets that UA actually ordered with their money? That has not been answered yet.

User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 108, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 10058 times:

Quoting FriendlySkies (Reply 106):
So...any chance this means a good chunk of those OO CR2s are going away soon?

Perhaps a few, but I suspect these are straight growth.



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User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 109, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9955 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 108):
Perhaps a few, but I suspect these are straight growth.

I highly doubt this.

UA has been beating the 'capacity discipline' drum for quite a long time and I find it hard for them to change that tune.
This would mean a HUGE increase in domestic capacity.

I expect we will see 75-100 (if not more) 50-seat rj's to depart over the same period that these will be delivered.

The one thing that will be interesting to see is how UA downsizes the EWR 50 seat rj operation in Terminal A with the addition of these new planes and the reduction in 50 seaters. They have a great balance where all of the plus 50 seat operations are out of C. It sucks for some connections and when I leave on a explus and return on express, but there is some rationality too it.


User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 110, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9893 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 109):
expect we will see 75-100 (if not more) 50-seat rj's to depart over the same period that these will be delivered.

I highly doubt that since it would be impossible to achieve that number from SkyWest.



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User currently offlineFlyHossD From United States of America, joined Nov 2009, 890 posts, RR: 2
Reply 111, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9889 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 105):
If that were true, then GoJets would have won every RFP since their inception.

From what I've heard, they don't bid on every contract (this from a current GoJets jet jockey). Rather, they realize that they'd be hard pressed to do much more than they're flying now and that their costs are rising (again, according to this same pilot).



My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 112, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9817 times:

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 111):
From what I've heard, they don't bid on every contract (this from a current GoJets jet jockey). Rather, they realize that they'd be hard pressed to do much more than they're flying now and that their costs are rising (again, according to this same pilot).

I can agree with that, although, unless he's a mangement pilot, I doubt the company just up and tells their pilots just what they do and do not bid on.

I suspect filling the ranks might have something to do with that, too, and I don't mean in a lack of qualified pilots sort of way, but because GoJet's reputation from startup (regardless of whether that still holds true today or not...)



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User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 113, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 9706 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 110):
I highly doubt that since it would be impossible to achieve that number from SkyWest.

I never said that this the removal of 50-seaters was going to be done via one express carrier.

Nevermind that UA has a ton of 50 seaters with Skywest Inc (specifically ExpressJet) that they could easily hit the numbers I suggest, but I never said it. (I think it was well over 100 E-145LR's alone)

I do not for one second believe all of these 76-seaters are for pure growth. That would be capacity suicide.

They will be removing existing capacity, that I feel is a fact, where it comes from we will have to wait to find out.


User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 114, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 9637 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 113):
I do not for one second believe all of these 76-seaters are for pure growth. That would be capacity suicide.

You're welcome to not believe a word I say; however, the sources I have say otherwise.



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User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 115, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 9302 times:

As I mentioned previously, look for more in a similarly aggressive delivery schedule. Under the new pilot contract UA can add up to 153 76 seaters by 2016, they can even add more if they add a new narrow body mainline aircraft (C Series). Right now UAX fleet is at 588 aircraft, by 2016 they're going to have a hard cap of 450. Of that 450 aircraft 250 can be 70-76 seaters, of that 250 153 can be 76 seaters (ERJ-175) and 102 70 seaters (CR-7, ERJ-170, Q400). RIght now they have 183 70 seats (CR-7s, Q400s, ERj-170s), to accommodate the 153 76 seaters and be under the 250 cap they're going to have to drop some 70 seaters, most likely CR-7s.

That leaves 200 sub 70 seaters, which can be any combination of props (BE-1s, SF3s, DH8-200s, Q300s, ATRs) as well as CRJs and ERJ-145s/ERJ-135s.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1572 posts, RR: 4
Reply 116, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8717 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 113):
(I think it was well over 100 E-145LR's alone)

105 XRs, close to 150 LRs. A few leftover 135s, too.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5597 posts, RR: 5
Reply 117, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8720 times:

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 116):
105 XRs, close to 150 LRs. A few leftover 135s, too.

While I feel sorry for the EV crews that will suffer (IMHO they're some of the best regional crews out there) I think this will be where we see the biggest draw down in 50 seat flying. UA (CO) own the aircraft so could probably park them relatively easily. As I understand it the agreement for the PMCO flying ends in 2015, is that correct? If they wanted to, UA could take something like 250 ERJs out of the system at that point. They will need to keep 200 50 seaters, and I could see the 105 XRs being part of that, but it could well be buh-bye to the LRs and 135s.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 118, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 8592 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 115):
As I mentioned previously, look for more in a similarly aggressive delivery schedule. Under the new pilot contract UA can add up to 153 76 seaters by 2016, they can even add more if they add a new narrow body mainline aircraft (C Series). Right now UAX fleet is at 588 aircraft, by 2016 they're going to have a hard cap of 450. Of that 450 aircraft 250 can be 70-76 seaters, of that 250 153 can be 76 seaters (ERJ-175) and 102 70 seaters (CR-7, ERJ-170, Q400). RIght now they have 183 70 seats (CR-7s, Q400s, ERj-170s), to accommodate the 153 76 seaters and be under the 250 cap they're going to have to drop some 70 seaters, most likely CR-7s.

That leaves 200 sub 70 seaters, which can be any combination of props (BE-1s, SF3s, DH8-200s, Q300s, ATRs) as well as CRJs and ERJ-145s/ERJ-135s.

As of the current fleet plan posted on the UA investor site they plan to end 2013 with:
Q300 - 5
Q200 - 16
ERJ-145 - 277
ERJ-135 - 7
CRJ200 - 75
EMB-120 - 9
Total - 389
which means that UA has to cut a minimum of 139 frames from this fleet by 2016, in addition to the cuts from the EMB-170 and CR7 fleet as stated by STT757 due the pilot contract....

STT757, your numbers for the 70-76 add up to 255 not 250, ie 153 76 seaters and 102 70 seaters. Per here it is 255...
http://www.pilotsunited.com/downloads/ta.pdf


User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 119, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8464 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 118):
EMB-120 - 9

I'll believe this when I see it. Until then, they are are pretty crucial on many west coast small markets.



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User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 120, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8433 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 119):

I'll believe this when I see it. Until then, they are are pretty crucial on many west coast small markets.

I think he was just listing how many are in the fleet at the end of the year, not subtracting.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 121, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8410 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 120):
I think he was just listing how many are in the fleet at the end of the year

I know what he meant. The thing is, they've been on a "retirement schedule" for a long time. The problem is, though, that this schedule keeps getting pushed back later and later.



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User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 8395 times:

Well I red on another thread a month or so ago there are currently 88 mainline planes in some sort of modification and out of service. ie...dtv, bins, paint, complete interrior mods etc. I would guess UA plans to have most these mods done within 2-3 years and they will be able to backfill the 138 RJ's that are leaving to a certain extent.

It will be interesting if UA adds another mainline small plane before 2016, even if it's only 30 frames by then, that means that 450 number increases not to mention the 30 mainline frames.

I assume a reduction straight up of 138 frames without considering the above would be a big hurt to UA and the cities they serve, there are just too many planes to be cut with significant cuts.

My guess is we see a small UA mainline plane order for the 100 seat variety within the next 18 months. They wouldn't have added this into the scope without intention of going forward with it.


User currently offlineThePinnacleKid From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 725 posts, RR: 8
Reply 123, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 8330 times:

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 117):
While I feel sorry for the EV crews that will suffer (IMHO they're some of the best regional crews out there) I think this will be where we see the biggest draw down in 50 seat flying. UA (CO) own the aircraft so could probably park them relatively easily. As I understand it the agreement for the PMCO flying ends in 2015, is that correct? If they wanted to, UA could take something like 250 ERJs out of the system at that point. They will need to keep 200 50 seaters, and I could see the 105 XRs being part of that, but it could well be buh-bye to the LRs and 135s.

Nope... incorrect. When XE was sold to SkyWest in 2010, SkyWest, Inc. negotiated a new CPA with pmCO to ensure carrier viability for their investment. The new CPA was for the specific number of airframes (not specific aircrafts) for another 10 years.. so the pmCO CPA for ExpressJet goes until 2020. That said, it was for 205 airframes if I'm not mistaken as the other aircraft operating are under CPA with pmUA and have shorter lifespans on them.... in addition, SkyWest negotiated into the 10 yr CPA that 75 of the 205 someodd airframes could be upgauged to larger equipment with SkyWest (ExpressJet side) having first rights of refusal for those planes...... It's also no secret that EV is adding the E175 to it's ops specs.... that said, none of these planes are for them.

SO, these aircraft joining the fleet do not indicate a draw down of EV 145's at all thanks to their CPA... it does however leave open the TransStates ERJ's, SkyWest's CR2's, and ASA's CR2's. FWIW, rumour has it that the CR2's will be the first to go as the E145 is a more efficient 50 seater...



"Sonny, did we land? or were we shot down?"
User currently offlineORDBOSEWR From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8137 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 119):
I'll believe this when I see it. Until then, they are are pretty crucial on many west coast small markets.

It was simply a chart to show the totals, I have no clue what is leaving or staying.

If we believe what the pilot contract says then the reality is there are 139 small planes that have to leave the fleet before 2016.
You may not want to believe that but the UA mainline pilot contract makes it very clear. Simple math tells me this.
To hit that number they have to take out more than just the CR2's, some of the 145's will have to leave to hit this number. You can add up all of the ones I listed above and they do not add up to 138.

Please tell me where my understanding is wrong? These are facts or correct me. All you are saying is 'trust me' and I say the facts speak otherwise.


User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 125, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 8094 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 124):

Please tell me where my understanding is wrong? These are facts or correct me. All you are saying is 'trust me' and I say the facts speak otherwise.

I've stated my answer in post 121.

I'm not disagreeing that somewhere that something has to give. SkyWest took a reduction in form of aircraft swaps with the DL contract. Thus, I believe that there will be SOME 2:1 CRJ-200 swaps in exchange for these E-175s. Heck, there will probably be a swap out of CRJ-700 to fit the E-jets. The thing that you must remember that is that just because this is happening DOES NOT mean that OO is going to shrink.You have to remember that OO has contracts with other carriers than UA, and can shuffle these CRJ2/7, and even E-120 aircraft as contracts are initiated or renegotiated.



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User currently offlineFriendlySkies From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 4106 posts, RR: 5
Reply 126, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days ago) and read 7988 times:

Does anyone know the details on UA's contracts with the former ASA CR2s, or the Trans States E145s, or Mesa CR7s? I wonder if those are set to lapse anytime soon, and could contribute to some of the expected draw down.

User currently onlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5597 posts, RR: 5
Reply 127, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 7890 times:

Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 123):
Nope... incorrect
Quoting ThePinnacleKid (Reply 123):
The new CPA was for the specific number of airframes (not specific aircrafts) for another 10 years

Interesting, I wasn't aware of that. That's good to know.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineapodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4280 posts, RR: 6
Reply 128, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 7701 times:

Golden shield...the DL contract is shrinking...and the UA contract is shrinking because of scope limits both places...and the only other option for new flying is AA. I don't see how OO grows much without other carriers going under.

User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 129, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 7579 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 128):
I don't see how OO grows much without other carriers going under.

I don't like the thought of others going under---especially those with a long history like yours---given the number of people that would be put on the street, but unfortunately, in the regionals, it's come to the point in the last few years with major consolidation that if you don't grow and diversify your own portfolio (or have no power to do so,) you face stagnation and, eventually, irrelevence. This is why I'd be scared as hell if I was working at a US wholly-owned right now.

Of the three you listed, only one has massive opportunities currently; however, there's also Alaska. There's also the possibility of branded flying, or charters. I don't know what the future holds, but regardless of how you look at it, even if the company were to replace its entire fleet (which it currently has no plans to do,) the total number of orders (firm, pending, and options) is a full 20% growth over the current total fleet.



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User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 130, posted (1 year 4 months 1 hour ago) and read 7289 times:

So the total ERJ-175 order thus far:

30 firm plus 40 options from UA
40 firm for UA plus 60-100 options for other carriers from OO

So total commitments is 110 76 aircraft.

The new pilots contract allows for up to 255 70-76 seat regional aircraft. They can go higher all the way to 325 larger regional aircraft if UA adds 88 new narrow body mainline aircraft (C series etc..)

Quote:
Given the highly competitive nature of the airline industry, having too many inefficient 50-seat aircraft could be a huge drag on profitability. United's pilot contract does allow the company to go beyond 255 large regional aircraft. The airline can add up to 70 more large regional aircraft (bringing the total to 325) if it also adds 88 small narrowbodies to be flown by United pilots. This language mimics Delta's fleet restructuring plan.
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2013/05/...igger-regional-jets-but-still-lag/



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 131, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6769 times:

Quoting AVENSAB727 (Reply 87):
How do you know? They have not been delivered yet.

I don't. Pure speculation based on Smisek's previous track record. He really has not shown that he knows how to properly use the asset. As it is, he is losing market share to Southwest in Houston.


User currently offlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6761 times:

But . . . the 170s fly out of Houston

Quoting kgaiflyer (Reply 90):
But . . . the 170s fly out of Houston -- I know because I've flown on them.

As far as I've been able to observe, they fly the longer hauls like IAH-YUL. But the bulk of the 70-seaters are CR7's.


User currently offlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 133, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6740 times:

Quoting ORDBOSEWR (Reply 109):
UA has been beating the 'capacity discipline' drum for quite a long time

And losing money as a result.

"Capacity discipline" is collusion between supposed competitors by a different name.


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 134, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6740 times:

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 132):

As far as I've been able to observe, they fly the longer hauls like IAH-YUL. But the bulk of the 70-seaters are CR7's.

The E170's have 70 seats but the Cr7's only have 66 seats I believe. If I read this right, the CR7's wouldn't count against the 70-76 seat allowed aircraft total.

Am I looking at this correctly?


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 135, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 6661 times:

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 134):
e E170's have 70 seats but the Cr7's only have 66 seats I believe. If I read this right, the CR7's wouldn't count against the 70-76 seat allowed aircraft total.

The CR-7s absolutely count towards their 70-76 seat regional quotas, as does the Q400 and ERJ-170s.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1312 posts, RR: 0
Reply 136, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6617 times:

Just a hint for Jeff Smisek...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/housto...hy-texas-juggernaut-125536748.html


User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 137, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 6593 times:

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 136):
Just a hint for Jeff Smisek...

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/housto....html



That just solidifies what happened, Chicago was desperate to bring in jobs and Houston feeling confident in their robust job market choose not to match the incentive package Chicago was offering. It's a money decision, whether it was the right move in the long term for the operation remains to be seen. However if you remove the emotional aspect the decision gets easier, the Headquarters went to the highest bidder. It would have been a disservice to UA's investors to leave money on the table.

Houston's hot job market was inconsequential to the Headquarters location. The hub remaining in Houston, and by many measures is still UA's largest hub, is what will benefit from the hot Houston economy. The Headquarters itself would operate no different no matter where it's located. The headquarters doesn't generate revenue, the operations do. The Headquarters cost money, which is why taking the City of Chicago up on their huge incentive package made sense.

Personally I would have rather the hub remained in Houston.

[Edited 2013-05-29 12:52:23]


Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9449 posts, RR: 14
Reply 138, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 6295 times:

Quoting apodino (Reply 128):

OO isn't getting smaller for Delta.
EV is getting a tad smaller but capacity is about the same or up. (they dumped some CRJs for 16 9E CR9s)

OO/EV/RP look to be the only 50-seat operator for Delta. 9E is the one who is giving up the CRJs.

On the flip side, if Delta goes ahead with the additional 30 76-seat jets it looks like they will give them to 9E which hurts for OO/EV.



yep.
User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 139, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 6207 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 138):
On the flip side, if Delta goes ahead with the additional 30 76-seat jets it looks like they will give them to 9E which hurts for OO/EV.

This is a big "wait and see" for me. All 3 carriers are capable to fly the CR9, which makes an all-out war for them, but Delta then has to worry about getting delivery slots---which is at something like a 3 year wait right now. Depending on where the lift is needed, then we could very well see deliveries to all 3 carriers.

Then there's this SKW E-175 order...



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User currently offlineinfiniti329 From United States of America, joined Jul 2012, 668 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 5923 times:

1. So who's gonna fly these? since nearly all the regional's have told their employees it not them (which I dont believe to be true)

2. If it is OO cant they just share the burden with EV, even though EV said they wont be operating the e175 its OO whos running the show


User currently offlinejolau1701 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5728 times:

I'm surprised OO is getting them, what happened to their MRJ's?

User currently onlineGoldenshield From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 6041 posts, RR: 14
Reply 142, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5720 times:

Quoting jolau1701 (Reply 141):

I'm surprised OO is getting them, what happened to their MRJ's?

Still a firm deal. It's still at least 6 months before first flight,and 18 months until the first aircraft is delivered, and then 3.5 years until SKYW, Inc's first delivery. Anything can happen until then, but as it stands, INC. is still committed.



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User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9449 posts, RR: 14
Reply 143, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5679 times:

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 139):

This is a big "wait and see" for me. All 3 carriers are capable to fly the CR9, which makes an all-out war for them, but Delta then has to worry about getting delivery slots---which is at something like a 3 year wait right now. Depending on where the lift is needed, then we could very well see deliveries to all 3 carriers.

true point.
and with the focus on the west coast it could very will mean some OO orders.

Quoting Goldenshield (Reply 139):
Then there's this SKW E-175 order...

and I for one would MUCH rather see DCI get 30 more E75s.....but I'm not sure how Delta is going to play it. I don't think they got those 30 options for nothing.....sadly.



yep.
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