-I guess we are all done with "orders" for most of the Turkish airline companies for sometime.
Now, it is time to build a new airport in Istanbul and the tender is due in a few days. Too bad the number of bids are going to be around 3-5. Good Luck to them, hope they can start on time and finish the first phase by late 2017.
-There is talk of a strike at TK, probably won't happen.
Please continue from where we left off, especially the role of ESB for the near future.
ankaraflyjet From Turkey, joined Mar 2007, 372 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (2 years 7 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 16519 times:
Thnaks to TK105 for the extensive information on ESB and is network potential, expectations etc.
However, I disgaree that any other alliance other than Star has no chance in ESB. In fact One World (through Air Berlin /Pegasus) has some chance to grow so BA can step in,
Also Skyteam should cover the airport with KL and AF and AZ all of which will make good business.
The reports prepared by TAV do not refer to ESB North America traffic. There is considerable transit traffic between North America and ESB too. We covered this topic in former debates, I mentioned the ESB JFK route introduction (in fact to be reinstated would be a right term to use as PAN AM flew the route between 1955 and 1990) and of course lots of discussion took place. I still think that it would work very well intially on thrice weekly basis.
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 16358 times:
What I think is ESB needs a hometown carrier that can emulate TK on a smaller scale, if TK itself is unwilling to do so, by creating a regional hub between Europe, N. Africa, Central Asia and MidEast. AnadoluJet is TK, so that leaves PC as the only candidate. Now, if PC can base at least 15-20 or so of its orders at ESB, it can carry traffic between these regions and possibly Turkish hinterland as well. It would also serve O&D at Ankara too.
Maybe TK will eventually expand into ESB, it is just waiting to reach critical mass at IST (the way LH branched into MUC after FRA was saturated).
LAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 28018 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 16210 times:
Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 1): In fact One World (through Air Berlin /Pegasus) has some chance to grow so BA can step in,
Except Sabanci specifically said PC would not join an alliance as it would complicate the business.
Quoting ankaraflyjet (Reply 1): (in fact to be reinstated would be a right term to use as PAN AM flew the route between 1955 and 1990)
In reality PA flew many places around the world regardless of economics. Ankara service which was intermittent over the decades and was no different. The last attempt with 727 service via IST a few times per week was lucky to have 30-40 people onboard with most actually bound for Germany not the US.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
stylo777 From Turkey, joined Feb 2006, 3123 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (2 years 7 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 16081 times:
I remember we tried to do this before (some months or even years ago). Is there a chance that we can compile a COMPLETE list of all different subtypes of TK. What I mean is for example in various booking systems the aircraft type shows 77C which obviously is a 777-300ER; however, there are others which aren't that clear to me. I'm pretty sure this is connected with the differentiation of leased and owned aircraft. It would be perfect to add the particular registrations to that list as well. Here is what I've found so far:
I think long distance flights for ESB is still early. For such flights you need enough domestic and medium distance international flights for connecting transfer passengers. Otherwise you always have to rely on O&D traffic resulting lower yields even if you can find enough loads. ESB has very good domestic connections but medium distance international flights are missing.
I do not believe that Pegasus would ever be a dominant player in ESB (as in IST). To my view, passengers of Pegasus are the same group of people who used to be traveling with Varan 15 years back: Students, Private Business Owners (Doctors, Lawyers, Architects, etc), Young Professionals having private trips, Educated people visiting their summer houses; belonging to Medium-Medium/Upper Class with Secular Lifestyle.
Demand in ESB for international destinations is premium traffic which is corporate travelers. All such companies already have agreements with TK for certain benefits for corporates and additional benefits for decision makers in the companies. Even a simplest construction worker does not want LCC ticket as it is paid by the company. Similarly engineers or managers complains a lot if LCC ever have to be used. For example 2-3 years back in our company we had to use Anadolujet for ESB-AMS as it was the only alternative and it was a big headache for management after a few flights. Similarly a few months back one of our clients had to make TLV-ESB but TK tickets were very high. His company management opted to buy a Pegasus ticket for TLV-SAW-ESB-SAW-TLV. During the 3 days this person stayed, he complaint about the flight. For 1 hour flights (i.e. domestic) LCC is Ok, but longer flights it is not good for corporate travelers.
On an other note, now 3rd parallel runway for ESB, Government is taking new steps. It looks like it will be tendered with in 2013 or early next year. It will have 60m width and be able to accommodate A380.
Today all members should be excited about the new IST airport tender so I am not going to make a long discussion topic.
I think ESB case is not very difficult to restore. Immediate future development should be to reinstate some routes suspended or start new international routes and this will make it work;
Underserved routes; AMS (KL to step in), MUC (TK to step in), VIE (OS to step in), GYD (TK to step in), Arbil (TK to step in),
Routes to be introduced: LHR by BA and TK, Kiev by TK, Tripoli by TK, DXB by EK, CDG by AF, FCO by AZ or TK, ORY by TK, CPH by TK, ZRH by TK or LX, AMM by TK or RJ, Riyadh by TK, Tebriz (by TK), Batumi (by TK), Cairo (by TK or MS) + various CIS destinations to be served mainly by TK like Bishkek, Almaty, Ashgabat etc. The CIS flights can be triangle flights.
This will give sufficient boost also to Turkish domestic connections and will put ESB on the map for an initial step.
leftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 740 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (2 years 7 months 17 hours ago) and read 15234 times:
Honestly, this is insane. These companies are claiming that they can cover the 8-9 bn euros of construction costs AND pay 22 billon euros as rent for the airport? I doubt any airport can bring in over 30 billion euros over 25 years, (let's not forget operating costs and any profit the consortium is hoping to make). I know the rent is spread out over the lifetime of the project, but that coupled with financing costs for the construction can cripple any company.
gokmengs From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1152 posts, RR: 2
Reply 21, posted (2 years 7 months 16 hours ago) and read 15132 times:
I wanted TAV for operational reasons I really think they know what they are doing. The price is outrageous and the winning group was going to bid higher no matter what. Limak is owned by someone extremely close to PM and has ten fold his net worth in last 10 years.
TK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4797 posts, RR: 11
Reply 23, posted (2 years 6 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 14792 times:
RTE says Tokyo flights to go 3 x daily.
I think he signed the nuclear reactor tender with the Japanese partner yesterday.
We know that TK doesn't have the metal yet, but is there demand for 3 x daily? Even in a decade?
TK's Hamdi TOPCU;
-3 x daily flights to JFK is not enough, might have to make a decision by the end of the year for 380/748, the same number of pax could be carried with 2 flights instead of 3.
-TK will fly to Caracas, Havana and Mexico City in 2013.
-TK marketing budget is up to $130M annually.
: Maybe what they meant to say was Japan was going to go 3x daily. At the moment TK is limited to 14x weekly frequencies to Japan. With the nuclear dea
: I hear Saga Airlines shut down or was grounded by the DGCA due financial issues.
: Hi, are there already hints of which airplane will get painted in Borussia Dortmund colors? Thanks, Jan
: Does this justify getting a new - that too a VLA? How many other routes would need it? The other way to deal with this might be increasing 77W freque
: I bet only a 77W will do. Since Barca and ManU planes need a new paint job after those sponsorships end. JFK. Also he mentions China routes and HKG.
: TK is going ahead with plans to open more routes. 4 more this month; Isparta (Domestic), Santiago De Compostela, Malta and Salzburg. What happened to
: IST-KTM-IST is open for sales in GDS to be operated by a 330-200 as of 01SEP
: Cool, Cross another destination from the wish list. I think it is slightly out of the range for TK 739ERs.[Edited 2013-05-08 10:52:50]
: Thanks! Happen to have access to the schedule?
: ISTKTM: .2.45.7 2145IST 0715*1 TK 726 3HF KTMIST: 1.3.56. 0845 1340IST TK 727 3HF For 739ER below you can see the comparison between 739ER range vs IS
: Thanks for the map! Also, Trivuban airport (KTM) is at an elevation of 4400 ft ... eating into the payload / range of 739ER
: These timings will 100% have to be changed due to visibility issues and fog at KTM between OCT and MAR. Even in SEP, the earliest u can arrive is at
: Indeed a great move. TK will become the fastest option in many European markets. QR will not be thrilled at this move. I can see this flight go daily
: I think this is from ch-aviation.ch but found it quoted elsewhere with no reference: "myCargo Airlines (9T, Istanbul Atatürk/Yesilköy International
: Yes the A300's were grounded. But the companies name is still ACT Airlines.
: Very interesting: LH 1781 MUC-ADB flight diverted to Cigli Air Force Airbase due to fuel critical. Plane is now waiting at airbase. http://www.airport
: I see TK is introducing the Do&Co flying chef concept on the 14x weekly Dubai services. TK now has 222 Do&Co flying chefs serving 16 markets.
: I guess TK has abandoned its plan of opening further Indian destinations?
: Its not a question of abandoning anything, TK as an airline cant do anything until a more liberal air-service agreement is reached between the governm
: What is the main problem right now in liberalising the air services agreement?