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What Crash Had The Most Ground Fatalities?  
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6288 posts, RR: 17
Posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13650 times:

Excluding 9/11, What crash had the most ground fatalities?


This is mainly about commercial accidents......but I think an air show crash back in the 80s killed about 50.......I can't remember where that was.


If I had to guess, that El Al 747 cargo crash near AMS in 1992


Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
44 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFoxBravo From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2988 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13666 times:

I believe it was this one (which Wikipedia confirms, for what that's worth): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_Air_Africa_crash


Common sense is not so common. -Voltaire
User currently offlinealoges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8668 posts, RR: 43
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13638 times:

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
I think an air show crash back in the 80s killed about 50.......I can't remember where that was.

The Ramstein air show disaster on 28 August 1988 killed 70 people, 67 of those were on the ground.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently onlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13582 times:
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9 were killed on the ground in the PSA crash in 1978.

EL AL crash in Amsterdam killed 43

Ukraine airshow crash killed 77


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7114 posts, RR: 17
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13480 times:

Quoting FoxBravo (Reply 1):
Wikipedia confirms, for what that's worth)

Here's Wiki's source for that part:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...ground-carnage-after-crash-217951/



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlineikramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21456 posts, RR: 60
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13439 times:

Obviously the 9/11 crashes had the most by far. But you are asking about pure accidents.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinexlc From United States of America, joined Apr 2012, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13325 times:

Pan Am - KLM crash at Tenerife claimed 583 fatalities.

[Edited 2013-05-01 09:06:50]

User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8031 posts, RR: 54
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13329 times:

Five 707 crashes had a high death toll on the ground. (Spookily, the final three had the same number killed in each case: 22.)

13/10/76: N730JP of LAB, Santa Cruz Bolivia, killed 3 crew and 113 on the ground
incorrect power set on takeoff, aircraft overran the runway and crashed into houses

25/12/76: SU-AXA of Egyptair, Bangkok Thailand, killed 52 pax and crew and 72 on the ground
excessive sink rate not corrected, crashed into industrial area

14/12/83 HK-2401 of Tampa Colombia, Medellin Colombia, killed 3 crew and 22 on the ground
operating a three engine ferry to Miami for repairs, lost a second engine on the same side and banked steeply before crashing into factories and houses

21/03/89 PT-TCS of Trans Brasil Airlines, Sao Paolo Brazil, killed 3 crew and 22 on the ground
a crew member extended the spoilers on final approach causing the aircraft to stall and crash short of the runway (this aircraft was used in the filming of the movie "Airport")

22/10/96 N751MA of Million Air, Manta Ecuador, killed 4 crew and 22 on the ground
failed to climb with an engine out, struck a church steeple then crashed into the ground and exploded



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineIslandRob From US Virgin Islands, joined Apr 2011, 129 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13302 times:

Perhaps the Tenerife disaster in 1977? This is the one where a KLM 747 struck a Pan Am 747. According to Wikipedia, "The resulting collision destroyed both aircraft, killing all 248 aboard the KLM flight and 335 of 396 aboard the Pan Am flight." -ir


If you wrote me off I'd understand it, Because I've been on some other planet, So come pick me up... I've landed
User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8031 posts, RR: 54
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days ago) and read 13246 times:

Quoting xlc (Reply 6):
Pan Am - KLM crash at Tenerife
Quoting IslandRob (Reply 8):
Tenerife disaster in 1977

I think we're talking about people who weren't inside the plane. If we're listing crashes on takeoff that never left the ground (and actually KL4805 was airborne when it hit the other 747) we'll be here all day - Air France 007, Spanair 5022, Comair 5191 et al.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineSoJo From UK - England, joined Nov 2012, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 13138 times:
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Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Excluding 9/11, What crash had the most ground fatalities?

Don't you find this a morbid kind of question to ask?

I've seen some weird posts on this site but.....

This takes the biscuit IMO. Just sad.



RAF Abingdon 1967. I met Beverley from Blackburn. Fantastic!
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6288 posts, RR: 17
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 13053 times:

Quoting SoJo (Reply 10):
Don't you find this a morbid kind of question to ask?

I've seen some weird posts on this site but.....

This takes the biscuit IMO. Just sad.

Care to explain?  

It's just a question. I'm not throwing a contest,:WHO"S GOT THE MOST GROUND FATALITIES???!!! YEEEEEHAAAAAWWW!!!!

I mean, seriously  



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineSoJo From UK - England, joined Nov 2012, 179 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 12918 times:
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Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 11):
Care to explain?

Certainly. Have you seen the video of the 747 crashing at Bagram? Not a nice thing to see. There have been numerous crashes over the years involving the loss of human life. In a lot of cases it has lead to aviation becoming a lot safer. But the human cost is terrible. I am not having a go at you personally, but I did find your post to be rather sick. This is just my opinion and I am not here to start any kind of conflict. I reacted to the post in my own way. Hope you understand.



RAF Abingdon 1967. I met Beverley from Blackburn. Fantastic!
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6288 posts, RR: 17
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12850 times:

Quoting SoJo (Reply 12):
Certainly. Have you seen the video of the 747 crashing at Bagram?

   That is exactly what inspired me to ask the question. I meant no disrespect to anyone that has lost a loved one to any aviation tragedy. This is an aviation forum and I feel that it is not out of bounds to ask ANY question related to aviaition accidents. I hope YOU understand my take......LET"S MOVE ON   



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 6792 posts, RR: 46
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 12813 times:

Quoting xlc (Reply 6):
Pan Am - KLM crash at Tenerife claimed 583 fatalities.

Yes, the planes (or at least one of them) were still on the ground. But all of the fatalities were passengers-I think the intent of the OP was to ask about fatalities among non-passengers (although when I first saw this thread my first thought was Tenerife). When you come down to it, almost all aviation fatalities happen on the ground-they usually don't die until they hit it (there are exceptions of course; i.e. midair explosions.)

[Edited 2013-05-01 10:27:52]


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineHELyes From Finland, joined Oct 2010, 886 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12412 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 7):
25/12/76: SU-AXA of Egyptair, Bangkok Thailand, killed 52 pax and crew and 72 on the ground
excessive sink rate not corrected, crashed into industrial area

Actually 19 died on the ground, 72 was the total number.

http://planecrashinfo.com/1976/1976-86.htm


User currently offlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8031 posts, RR: 54
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12403 times:

Quoting SoJo (Reply 10):
Don't you find this a morbid kind of question to ask?

If you don't like it, stay out of the topic. It's a perfectly reasonable question - accidents and disasters are probably the biggest driver of progress in safety. When I'm around pilots, they talk about crashes and incidents constantly. It's not morbid, it's part of the story of humans learning to fly. I didn't spend ages researching those 707 crashes for the thread to be hijacked by a superficial discussion of what's appropriate for conversation, especially when it's something as mainstream as air safety. Let's get back to the topic or stay out of it.



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7787 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12348 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 16):
When I'm around pilots, they talk about crashes and incidents constantly.

   They show us crash videos all the time in training. It's one thing to hear "be careful with your weight and balance," it's another thing to see a video why. A good chunk of what I learned came from crash videos, and in a way, seeing the videos and learning from their mistakes will save lives and the previous deaths won't be quite in vain...



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinemoose135 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 2291 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12293 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 16):
It's a perfectly reasonable question - accidents and disasters are probably the biggest driver of progress in safety.

A hundred years ago, when I was in Air Force pilot training, they gave us a book with details on a couple of dozen military air crashes (mostly fatal) with the story of what led to the crash, and the lessons learned. It was sobering reading for a bunch of 20-somethings who thought we owned the world because we managed to keep from killing ourselves on T-37 solo flights...

"Learn from the mistakes of others. You can't live long enough to make them all yourself. "



KC-135 - Passing gas and taking names!
User currently offlineCairnterriAIR From United States of America, joined Jun 2008, 401 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12195 times:

This one's pretty brutal....Took place on 2-1-63 in Ankara Turkey...a midair collision between a Turkish Air Force DC-3 and an MEA Viscount. 17 killed aboard the two aircraft, 87 killed on the ground and 50 injured.

User currently onlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1072 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 12095 times:

Viasa DC-9-30 on March 16, 1969. 84 on the DC-9 and 71 on the ground...

http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19690316-0


User currently offlinespacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3594 posts, RR: 12
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 12078 times:

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 16):
It's not morbid, it's part of the story of humans learning to fly.

And it's why even some airlines, like JAL, put their accidents on display for the world to see: http://www.jal.com/en/flight/safety/center/

A visit there is a requirement for all of the airline's employees, and it's open to the public as well.

It's no more morbid to talk about this than it would be to ask which war resulted in the most civilian deaths. There are a lot of valid reasons a person may ask such a question, but the most important thing to remember is that the worst thing we could do would be to sweep it all under the rug. *Not* talking about it and acting as if it didn't happen is not helpful to anybody interested in aviation.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offline802flyguy From United States of America, joined May 2012, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11968 times:

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 21):

And it's why even some airlines, like JAL, put their accidents on display for the world to see: http://www.jal.com/en/flight/safety/center/

A visit there is a requirement for all of the airline's employees, and it's open to the public as well.

An honest and admirable thing for the company to do. IIRC there were two JAL officials who took their own lives after the tragedy.


User currently onlinemaxpower1954 From United States of America, joined Sep 2008, 1072 posts, RR: 7
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11652 times:

For many years, United had a large room, kept under lock and key at the Stapleton MX facility which was a collection of United crash debris from 50 years of operations, complete with detailed descriptions and pictures of the accidents and causes The most haunting was a blood-stained captain's seat. Every new hire pilot was given the tour as part of initial training. Last I heard this practice was discontinued in the late 1980s because a few female new hires were distressed by the graphic photos that were part of the display.

User currently offlinealberchico From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 2908 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 10831 times:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sknyliv_air_show_disaster

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jyB5FL3NZYI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpC-SSmUw_Q

This accident didn't get a lot of attention because it happened in a remote part of the world but it was the worst military airshow accident....

[Edited 2013-05-01 20:09:09]


short summary of every jewish holiday: they tried to kill us ,we won , lets eat !
25 Post contains links greg3322 : Not the most with 15 ground fatalities, but the 1986 Aeromexico DC-9 mid-air over Cerritos, CA, USA (Near Los Angeles) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19
26 olddominion727 : The Sept 11 attacks!
27 olddominion727 : I would need to agree the KL/PA flights. But have there not been other mid-air collisions? What about JL domestic route (I think TYO-OSA) and crashed
28 Post contains images AR385 : You are free to stay out of it, and read some of the other threads in the forum. You´ve waited until 10 responses were given, so it´s not like you
29 bueb0g : Literally the first words of the thread: "Excluding 9/11..." Assuming that the death count is correct, then this is the accident with the most ground
30 AA777 : I for one don't think his post was sick. He was curious. How would this be any different than asking what plane crash had the most fatalities? It doe
31 Post contains links KL577 : Another tragic event was the EAS Airlines crash in the middle of Kano, Nigeria in 2002. At least 74 people died on the ground. http://en.wikipedia.org
32 Post contains images longhauler : Or they could read the book; "The Unfriendly Skies" by Rodney Stich. It's focus appeared to be on how unsafe United Airlines was.
33 Post contains links ardian : I just stumbled upon this article posted on this very own website: The forgotten disaster in Zaire
34 SmittyOne : Good for them. I reckon there were plenty of dudes distressed by those photos who didn't have the balls to say something about it. In a lot of areas
35 type-rated : I saw those photos when they were hanging on the walls of a conference/training room at DEN-TK. While they did show some blood stains on wreckage, th
36 Post contains images SmittyOne : Haha, agreed (though for the record my wife does not have this complaint ). I'd agree with this and with including some sort of 'gore' component in t
37 type-rated : Those photos must have served a purpose otherwise UA would not have had them hanging on a training room wall. I can see the diagnostic and investigati
38 spacecadet : How do you think UA got that way? Presumably UA had that stuff for the same reason JAL has their safety center - to try to change the culture at the
39 DeltaMD90 : Honestly, I think there is no black or white answer, I think to some it really works and to others it's just grizzly and unnecessary. I do learn a lo
40 SmittyOne : Sure, all very sensible in theory. But keep in mind what I was responding to was this: If the pictures served a valid training purpose then United wa
41 type-rated : But the crash photos on the wall showed no dead bodies or body parts at all. The worst was a piece of interior sidewall with some blood spray on it. A
42 cschleic : There's an incredible culture of safety in most parts of the aviation business. While I'm only a private pilot, every GA magazine has regular columns
43 type-rated : Exactly. Because if it happened to somebody else it certainly can happen to you. If you read a lot of the NTSB reports you'll see that often a small
44 SmittyOne : Good stuff. If that's all there was to it I'd be skeptical of the claim about the new hires being distressed. Could just as easily been a rogue PR gu
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