Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
F9 Coming Unbundled?  
User currently offlinexcltflyboy From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 33 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15144 times:

This press release indicates that Frontier, like Allegiant and Spirit, will begin charging (certain) passengers for carry-on bags, as well as beverages. Is this a positioning move to align themselves the policies of a potential suitor?

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fronti...ces-customers-using-160000209.html

140 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offline0NEWAIR0 From United States of America, joined May 2007, 939 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15141 times:

I don't believe this announcement is new news. I think it has been known for some time now that Frontier was moving towards an unbundled product and service offering that would be some what similar to Allegiant and Spirit. They're quickly changing in an effort to survive.

[Edited 2013-05-01 10:08:00]


"The future belongs to those who believe in the beauty of their dreams."
User currently offlinestlgph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9373 posts, RR: 26
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15105 times:

Not necessarily. Instead it could outline potential revenue for an interested buyer to either a) sweeten a deal or b) Republican can ask more in a sale.

[Edited 2013-05-01 10:09:53]


if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6324 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15018 times:

So, they will charge carry-on fees to people with Basic fares that are booked on 3rd party sites...any idea what percentage of the customers will fit in to this? Sounds like it could be decent sized, but not necesarilly gigantic.

User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23026 posts, RR: 20
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 15020 times:

Quoting 0NEWAIR0 (Reply 1):
I think it has been known for some time now that Frontier was moving towards an unbundled product and service offering that would be some what similar to Allegiant and Spirit.

It's not at all similar. F9 has the opposite goal with unbundling. They WANT people to buy the more expensive bundled fares (see their website, where they boast that Classic Plus gives you "more than $175 in value" for usually far less than $175 in fare difference). NK doesn't even sell a bundled fare.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlinexcltflyboy From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 33 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 14994 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
It's not at all similar. F9 has the opposite goal with unbundling. They WANT people to buy the more expensive bundled fares (see their website, where they boast that Classic Plus gives you "more than $175 in value" for usually far less than $175 in fare difference). NK doesn't even sell a bundled fare.

Excellent observation, Cubsrule.


User currently offlinejreuschl From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 547 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14953 times:

WN says "Thank you!"

User currently offlineEricR From United States of America, joined Jul 2010, 1904 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14955 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
It's not at all similar. F9 has the opposite goal with unbundling. They WANT people to buy the more expensive bundled fares (see their website, where they boast that Classic Plus gives you "more than $175 in value" for usually far less than $175 in fare difference). NK doesn't even sell a bundled fare.




And to add to this, Allegiant's objective is to sell a complete travel package (air fare, hotel, rental car, etc.). Therefore, while all 3 can be categorized as ULCC's, each has its own strategy unique to each carrier.


User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14878 times:

What is ground breaking here is carryones will still be free if you book at FlyFronter.com. If you book at Orbitz or Expedia etc there will be a carryon fee.


The problem I see with charging for beverages is they are doing only to the lowest fare pax. Naturally they still want a premium product for their better passengers. Kind of like what they do for TV. But what happens when pax begin changing seats to open seats?

Overall what they aren't doing isn't too bad, but it will complicate things a bit. Hope the revenue they get (or cost savings) is worth the confusion.

If this works I can see airlines begin charging pax differing fees if they use Third Party sites for bookings.

Quoting xcltflyboy (Reply 5):
Excellent observation, Cubsrule

Ditto

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 6):
WN says "Thank you!"

Southwest will soon be a
'Full Service" airline


User currently offlinesanti319 From Mexico, joined Dec 2005, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14849 times:

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 6):
WN says "Thank you!"


Actually, judging by the numbers posted by NK and G4 vs all the other airlines, WN says " Oh Crap!"....


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6324 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14801 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 8):
What is ground breaking here is carryones will still be free if you book at FlyFronter.com. If you book at Orbitz or Expedia etc there will be a carryon fee.

It's not even that, from my understanding of it. If you were to go on Expedia and book a full-fare, refundable ticket for a Frontier flight, I assume it would not have a carry-on fee. It's only if you book the "basic", absolute cheapest ticket on Expedia (and others) that would be hit with a carry-on fee. Perhaps I am incorrect, but that's how I read it. That being said, I would guess that the majority of people booking on Expedia are doing so to find the cheapest, not the most flexible, of fares.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23026 posts, RR: 20
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14774 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 8):
The problem I see with charging for beverages is they are doing only to the lowest fare pax. Naturally they still want a premium product for their better passengers. Kind of like what they do for TV. But what happens when pax begin changing seats to open seats?

To me (a semi-frequent F9 traveler), one of the mysteries of F9 is how they make the onboard differentiation work. The answer seems to be that f/as keep a tight hold of their manifest and engage the passengers who are entitled to freebies while not really engaging the others directly. Most folks who buy a fair amount of Classic Plus but don't have status will grab the card that activates the tvs from the f/a, swipe it and hand it back. Those with status can simply swipe their FF cards to get free tv.

Of course, the group of FFs with status plus travelers in Classic Plus tickets is a lot smaller than the group that will get free soda and free carryons under this plan. That said, most F9 f/as (in contrast with f/as at other carriers, particularly DL), do a good job of keeping non-paying customers out of Stretch seats. To succeed at unbundling, the carrier has to have f/a buyin. F9 seems to have that. I don't know how exactly they got it.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7192 posts, RR: 13
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14732 times:

Quoting xcltflyboy (Thread starter):
This press release indicates that Frontier, like Allegiant and Spirit, will begin charging (certain) passengers for carry-on bags, as well as beverages. Is this a positioning move to align themselves the policies of a potential suitor?
Quoting sw733 (Reply 3):
So, they will charge carry-on fees to people with Basic fares that are booked on 3rd party sites...any idea what percentage of the customers will fit in to this? Sounds like it could be decent sized, but not necesarilly gigantic.
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 4):
It's not at all similar. F9 has the opposite goal with unbundling. They WANT people to buy the more expensive bundled fares (see their website, where they boast that Classic Plus gives you "more than $175 in value" for usually far less than $175 in fare difference). NK doesn't even sell a bundled fare.

If I may, very few people understand what the purpose of of the carry on bag fee is. It is not as 99.9% of people think, to generate revenue through the collection of the fee. That is a sizable side benefit, but that is not why Spirit did it and it is not way F9 should do it.

The sole reason that the carry on bag fee is a good idea is that in this industry everybody has the same price because everybody matches each other down to the nickel. When the price is the same for everybody, you decide which airline to fly based upon other factors like frequent flier program, schedule frequency, product comfort, etc. Frontier loses on most of those measures by virtue of being a small carrier, as did Spirit. So what Frontier ends up carrying are only passengers that the other airlines didn't want. The other airlines planes fill up and then Frontier takes their revenue management cast-offs. A bottom feeder. That strategy won't pay the fuel bills.

The way to make money in this industry consistently is to not be matched. That is very difficult to do. The only way to do it is to introduce a product that the other carriers can't copy. Allegiant has done that with tour packaging. It is very hard to compare Allegiant's package pricing to any other airline and it's even harder for other airlines to decide how to price against them because they don't have time or tools to compare package prices and back into an air fare that is competitive.

Similarly, the legacies are not (yet) charging carry-on bag fees. At the point they do that it will kill NK unless they find a new differentiator, but until they do, NK's fares will not be matched almost all the time by the legacies (because if they match and NK collects a carry on fee, they are at a revenue disadvantage) which gives NK an enormous advantage. They will then get a disproportionate share of traffic across all segments and all the way up the revenue management pricing ladder. It's really brilliant even if I hate it as a consumer.

So, for Frontier will it work? It may work. The way they are doing it with only OTAs is different, but that is where people are price shopping, so I give them some credit for that. I think on F9.com they eventually unbundle as well if that is not already the plan. I think this has the potential of giving WN a big advantage financially in Denver where it seems NK has done well competing against way too many other airlines. I do not think this has anything to do with merging other than improved earnings helps sell the company. If anything, it means they are not close on a deal to sell the company as this is a big change that will take a while to implement. The biggest issue I'd expect for F9 is compliance. They have subbed out every station except Denver. Contract handlers won't be good about collecting the carry on fee. That's just a fact of life. It's basically untrackable, so if the contractor doesn't collect it then F9 will never know it went uncollected and unless they pay the contractors a commission on the fee they have no incentive to harass customers about it.

Quoting jreuschl (Reply 6):
WN says "Thank you!"

Right now F9 already should have a fare advantage against WN because WN does not charge chkd bag fees. I think WN has been matching them anyway and eating the loss. This will make it harder for them to do. If WN matched F9's base fare it would cost WN a lot of money but would likely decimate what remains of F9 in Denver. OTOH, they have shown limited appetite toward matching NK for any sustained period of time.


User currently onlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 23026 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 14658 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
The biggest issue I'd expect for F9 is compliance. They have subbed out every station except Denver. Contract handlers won't be good about collecting the carry on fee. That's just a fact of life. It's basically untrackable, so if the contractor doesn't collect it then F9 will never know it went uncollected and unless they pay the contractors a commission on the fee they have no incentive to harass customers about it.

Two points on this:

1) I expect f/as will be part of the enforcement scheme (just like they have to enforce Express Boarding now).

2) Most of F9's contract handlers are not scum-of-the-earth lowest bidders but actually do a pretty good job. Much like YX used to, F9 uses a lot of actual airlines (AS in GEG, for instance). The contract handlers are already pretty good about doing what they are supposed to do with top end passengers, so I don't see why bottom end passengers would be any different.



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
User currently offlineKcrwflyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3817 posts, RR: 7
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 14509 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
Similarly, the legacies are not (yet) charging carry-on bag fees. At the point they do that it will kill NK unless they find a new differentiator, but until they do, NK's fares will not be matched almost all the time by the legacies (because if they match and NK collects a carry on fee, they are at a revenue disadvantage) which gives NK an enormous advantage. They will then get a disproportionate share of traffic across all segments and all the way up the revenue management pricing ladder. It's really brilliant even if I hate it as a consumer.

Are you suggesting that all the legacies have to do to lower their fares to NK's level is start charging for carry-ons? There is no way on this earth that that's the case. Nobody matches NK's fares now ( to my knowledge) or has the desire to do so. The entire legacy cost structure is much too far out of line to match fares with NK and not leed profusely with every ticket sold.

Even if the legacies start charging a carry-on fee, we all know they won't lower fares as a result. It will only make their domestic product less attractive. Everyone that hates NK now for charging for carry-ons ( yet still flies them) will either have less of a product differential to cite when booking... making NK an even more attractive option. OR a less, less attractive option depending on how you lok at things.


User currently offlinesw733 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6324 posts, RR: 9
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 14453 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
If I may, very few people understand what the purpose of of the carry on bag fee is.

I understand it completely, but that wasn't really what I was getting at. I remember when AA started introducing bag fees, they talked about how few people it actually would hit, between the frequent fliers, international travelers, full fare customers, military customers, etc, etc. I am just wondering what percentage of F9's customers this would impact - that is, people only buying the absolute "Basic" fare from a third party provider. I really have no idea if that's 5% of F9's customer base, or 50% of F9's customer base.


User currently offlineDLD9S From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 14342 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 8):
What is ground breaking here is carryones will still be free if you book at FlyFronter.com. If you book at Orbitz or Expedia etc there will be a carryon fee.

It will be curious to see if the OTAs react to this. I wonder if Frontier can survive by only selling tickets on their own site if the OTAs decide to cut ties. Sure, most of them also sell Spirit, but then again Spirit is not penalizing just a select group of customers.



717 727 737 747 757 767 777 DC9 DC10 M80 M90 M11 L10 AB6 333 340 319 320 321 ARJ CRJ EM2 EMJ SF3 146 100 BE1...
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14268 times:

Quoting sw733 (Reply 3):

Unless things have changed in the recent past months less than fifty percent of Frontier's tickets have been booked on their website per Shurz's comments a couple of calls back. They want that number to increase significantly and this is a step in that direction they hope.


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25281 posts, RR: 85
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14247 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Frontier14 (Reply 17):
Unless things have changed in the recent past months less than fifty percent of Frontier's tickets have been booked on their website per Shurz's comments a couple of calls back. They want that number to increase significantly and this is a step in that direction they hope.

Things have changed some. The latest I heard was that the number was closer to 60% and that at TTN it is around 80%.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 218 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 14218 times:

[quote=mariner,reply=

Things have changed some. The latest I heard was that the number was closer to 60% and that at TTN it is around 80%.[/quote]


Thanks Mariner for the updated numbers. This is good news.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25416 posts, RR: 49
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14093 times:

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 13):
Most of F9's contract handlers are not scum-of-the-earth lowest bidders but actually do a pretty good job. Much like YX used to, F9 uses a lot of actual airlines (AS in GEG, for instance). The contract handlers are already pretty good about doing what they are supposed to do with top end passengers, so I don't see why bottom end passengers would be any different.

Just remember the whole handler thing is changing at F9. With news out, that all stations are going to contract handling and F9 seeking to do multi-city bundle deals, most stations will be covered by likes of Swissport, Menzies, Servisair etc..

Lowest bidder rules.   



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 14055 times:

Quoting DLD9S (Reply 16):
if the OTAs decide to cut ties

Yes, there could definitely be some OTA retaliation

CubsRule's comments have been pretty good on this thread.


User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3356 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 13682 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 12):
The biggest issue I'd expect for F9 is compliance. They have subbed out every station except Denver. Contract handlers won't be good about collecting the carry on fee. That's just a fact of life. It's basically untrackable, so if the contractor doesn't collect it then F9 will never know it went uncollected and unless they pay the contractors a commission on the fee they have no incentive to harass customers about it.

Fortunately for my former colleages at Spirit, this consideration is what keeps them from outsourcing staff at legacy stations such as FLL or LGA. The higher costs from having organic employees are offset by the increased revenue brought in by more stringent enforcement of the baggage policy.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 20):
Just remember the whole handler thing is changing at F9. With news out, that all stations are going to contract handling and F9 seeking to do multi-city bundle deals, most stations will be covered by likes of Swissport, Menzies, Servisair etc..

That being said, Swissport is one of the better ground handling companies. At Miami International Airport, they provide customer-facing staff for 23 of the 37 scheduled passenger carriers, including the likes of Avianca-Taca, Lufthansa, and (of course) SWISS.


User currently onlineairliner371 From United States of America, joined Aug 2012, 1394 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 13458 times:

Frontier's social media pages have been very interesting to watch today...


You will either love or hate the airline industry. If you love it, it will get in your blood and it will never leave.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25281 posts, RR: 85
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 13295 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 23):
Frontier's social media pages have been very interesting to watch today...

With quite a lot of the noise coming from people who are buying $39 fares - as happened last time.  

mariner

[Edited 2013-05-01 18:07:31]


aeternum nauta
25 Cubsrule : I'm not sure how you get from bundle deals what I've termed "scum of the earth lowest bidder." With F9 looking to outsource the likes of LAX, LGA and
26 unmlobo : Coming unbundled or coming unglued? Clever choice of words for the thread title.
27 n471wn : Frontier is shooting themselves in the foot once more.....
28 airliner371 : I'm not necessarily saying they are gonna do bad but they are really ruining their brand. They are being just like Spirit, the only difference, people
29 questions : What was F9's original business model? Who was their target? What was their service offering focus -- no frills; trying to be like B6? And what are th
30 Cubsrule : With what part of F9's brand are the new fees inconsistent? The "you can get a $39 ticket on expedia with a bunch of perks" part? I doubt that's the
31 skycub : I checked out the Frontier Facebook page... I did not see anywhere where the people leaving comments had a chance to post what fares they paid. Am I
32 mariner : Frontier's original model was always to be the cheaper alternative, long before JetBlue came along. Its original slogan was "Always Affordable." How
33 mariner : Some research was done on it when they first changed the rules for third party booking, which caused some yells on Facebook - and here. I'm scarcely
34 enilria : That could be, but at the moment you mix the FAs into the enforcement mix you will see a huge decline in "love" for what has traditionally been a str
35 IllinoisMan : Another reason not to fly F9. Remind me again, why did everybody fight so hard to support the sale of YX to these guys? I mean, the "Save the Cookie"
36 mke717spotter : Not sure it matters too much for MKE...unless you're forgetting that F9 has cut about 90% of its service here?
37 PlanesNTrains : I think this is another example of projecting one's wishes onto an unrelated event. Are you implying that Frontier would not be continuing its evolut
38 BN747dfwhnl : On the local Denver news tonight (at least the TV station I watched), they had a short news blurb about these fees but did not clarify that they woul
39 Post contains links mariner : Yes, that was sad, especially the money side of things. Between them, TPG, Northwest/Delta and Republic/Frontier lost well in excess of half a Billio
40 awacsooner : Yup...and they just have to sit back and watch their market share in DEN increase even more. And apparently, my flight on F9 three years ago was my l
41 bobloblaw : My concern is I always book at flyftontier.com but how will the staff at the gate know I booked at the company web site? I guess based on the type of
42 Cubsrule : Agreed completely, but it shouldn't be hard. They'll just have to sell separate fare codes on flyfrontier.com and elsewhere (even if some of those co
43 bobloblaw : They are smart for realizing their current brand isn't going to work for them. But the mistake and risk they take is making their brand confusing. For
44 bobloblaw : CubsRule: Your comments and observations on this topic have been among the best that I have ever seen on A.net for any poster.
45 Cubsrule : Thanks (and thanks for the compliments). Fare buckets is the term I was trying--but failing--to come up with above. We know F9 has the IT infrastruct
46 Pe@rson : They might have been "a great airline" from a product/service perspective - I don't know as I haven't flown them - but they certainly haven't been go
47 n7371f : I am very curious how F9 is going to pull this off - boarding and during flight - without large risk to its excellent customer service reputation. How
48 kgaiflyer : Just an observation -- At BWI WN seems to be growing way faster than NK. It would appear that in this region, folks like the WN product better than t
49 LAXintl : Nothing to do with people. NK can't be everywhere. They are only a 50-plane airline, not 700 like SWA. But when the day comes NK decides to add 30-fl
50 ScottB : They don't necessarily need to use different fare classes; the place of issue for the ticket will also differentiate between company and third-party
51 LAXintl : Except when the airline pays commission to handler employees for such revenue. For example folks like Sun Country, WestJet, Volaris all to some degre
52 enilria : The point is that if you were really just days from selling the company which is where they said they were a quarter ago and big decision like this w
53 awacsooner : And then slowly cuts back on them bit by bit over the next few years?
54 toltommy : It may be tedious but it is trackable. It's as simple as an intern in revenue management pulling a manifest and looking at the past date PNRs for the
55 enilria : Sort of, but I assume they are doing like Spirit and allowing under seat carry-ons for free still. That makes it impossible. You could get something
56 Cubsrule : They are already looking over our shoulders and collecting fees for food (all passengers) and alcohol (some passengers). How is this different? F9 f/
57 Post contains images mariner : But - they have. According to the fleet plan they have at least 3 more A320 coming in this year/ mariner
58 767driver : About half the time it does now since less people will be ordering drinks. Just get on any of the full NK flights from SAN/LAX-LAS or FLL-MCO/TPA whe
59 planeadmirer : Enjoy the drive to ORD...... Because one might reasonably think that non-stop service was more important than fresh baked cookies which turned out no
60 PlanesNTrains : I "get it" but disagree. They aren't spending billions on airplanes, they are making a modest change to their fee structure. You make it sound like a
61 awacsooner : Not when they're racing to join NK and G4 at the bottom of the airline cesspool!
62 planeadmirer : I may not want to fly NK or G4, but a lot of people do and pay good money to do so and both airlines are profitable compared to the previous F9 model
63 GentFromAlaska : I would also add it is a less expensive means to market and advertise the brand. Just as people eat with their eyes first; the leisure flyer tend to
64 PlanesNTrains : I posted this reply in the Spirit earnings thread: You might find these carriers a "cesspool", but to many people they find them perfectly fine. Agai
65 Frontier14 : The dickie birds were chatting about all of this coming last fall. Are we surprised, I would say no. Are we disappointed, yes. But life is full of ch
66 enilria : Buying a product for $3 or $10 is one thing. This is a lot of money and the argument will be "it fits" under the seat. They really have to do that be
67 jerseyguy : How bad are the 3rd party fees that they are so concerned with them, with places like TTN and ILG on their routemap and assuming they are looking for
68 IllinoisMan : I was once a Summit member and and I'm very sad to see F9 slide into the "nickel and dime" model. If you don't like working with the Orbitz of the wo
69 mariner : You didn't make that qualification originally, but yes, I believe the first A320, at least, is new - whatever difference that makes - and of course,
70 PlanesNTrains : I'm not sure why making the news somehow makes this a bigger deal than it really is? It isn't groundbreaking. It isn't all-emcompassing. And it won't
71 Cubsrule : Who is twisting Frontier's arm and forcing them to sell lower fares on OTAs than on flyfrontier.com? Of course it does. All the f/as have to do is ca
72 Post contains links gustywinds : Someone asked the question about the cost to Frontier when passengers book via the OTAs (Travelocity, Priceline). F9 claims it costs them up to $25 pe
73 HiFlyerAS : I read recently that Frontier has a strong possibility of being sold off by Republic Holdings to Spirit. Maybe these changes at F9 are connected in so
74 jerseyguy : F9 and Spirit merge? Now I think I know how the fans of Midwest Express felt. Hoping that doesn't happen. $25 a booking. Thats way too much. You coul
75 PlanesNTrains : I think I stated my position poorly, as I wasn't trying to imply that anyone was forcing Frontier to do anything. What I was trying to say - and expl
76 Cubsrule : I think what you are seeing now is what you are getting. Unlike NK and G4 (and arguably more like at least some legacy fees), F9 has always used fees
77 awacsooner : Fine with me...kill 2 for the price of 1
78 PlanesNTrains : I'd agree with that. Bitter much? -Dave
79 enilria : Those planes weren't just ordered and I think the same point is valid there. Having all these aircraft orders is a noose around their neck. That's wh
80 mikefrommke : The C-Series order is for Republic and would not be included in the assets partially acquired by a new investor unless that investor really wanted th
81 awacsooner : Nope, just massively anti-carryon fee... If your bottom line is that bad that you feel the need to charge people who already do the work for you by c
82 HiFlyerAS : An investor? For how long now has RAH been trying to unload Frontier? Merger, investor, whatever....they just want to be rid of it.
83 mariner : They're usually thought of an extremely attractive asset. At the very least, worst case, they are excellent - that is early - production slots. A mer
84 Cubsrule : Again, though, the point isn't necessarily for people to pay this fee. It's to steer them to flyfrontier.com. What's wrong with steering folks to you
85 mikefrommke : This idea that RJET wants to be totally rid of Frontier is a complete fabrication by the media and message boards. They are looking for another party
86 beechtobus : "Nope, just massively anti-carryon fee... If your bottom line is that bad that you feel the need to charge people who already do the work for you by
87 milemaster : Man, you really like cookies.
88 OB1504 : I'm sure the shareholders of Spirit disagree with you.
89 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : I didn't take it as a negative. I just see it as an out-of-options scenario. But it's not worth dragging out further. Hahahahahah -Dave
90 awacsooner : How about simply not allowing third party sites to sell your tickets...seems to work for WN?
91 awacsooner : Oh come off it...the fact of the matter is that two of these three airlines were running in the red due to mismanagement until they decided to stick
92 mariner : That may happen. Frontier has already dropped Expedia. It's a process. The only people this really affects are those who buy the cheapest fare throug
93 bobloblaw : They may be headed that way, but they will have in greatly increase advertising spending.
94 Frontier14 : A shock of some sorts in reading the Denver Post letters to the editor this morning (5/4) in that the paper actually posted a letter from a Frontier c
95 Post contains links beechtobus : ["...the fact of the matter is that two of these three airlines were running in the red due to mismanagement until they decided to stick it to their
96 Post contains links awacsooner : Here's something that perfectly illustrates the mentality that seems to plague folks here regarding carry-on fees: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpE_
97 jerseyguy : I applaud WN for that myself and its the reason that they are my second choice of airline (F9 is #1 based on a convenience factor). A few things abou
98 Cubsrule : Given that all of these fees can be avoided by simply booking on flyfrontier.com, I'm having a hard time understanding how these fees are unethical i
99 awacsooner : I agree about F9's scenario...and I really loved the trips I had with that airline. But they could have easily avoided all this negative press and sto
100 Cubsrule : Maybe that's where they are headed? The publicity raises folks' awareness of flyfrontier.com and will pull traffic away from the OTAs. Seems pretty s
101 Post contains links mariner : Sure. Frontier dropping of Expedia was a big clue: http://www.denverpost.com/breakingne...ill-no-longer-sell-tickets-expedia "Frontier Airlines will
102 Post contains images par13del : So are we saying that WN cattle call is a good thing Well this works in politics and people accept it - discourage folks from smoking by taxes - but
103 santi319 : Thats a very mature comment.....
104 mariner : Quite ignoring any contracts or agreements they may have with the OTAs? From the article about dropping Expedia: ""The contract with Expedia was up f
105 par13del : Probably a lot because AA was trying to "welch" by unilaterraly lowering fees to be paid versus looking for an amicable way to end the relationship.
106 Post contains links mariner : I think that is a completely reasonable assumption - and maybe a richer airline would be willing to pay the penalties - but in Frontier's case it lea
107 IllinoisMan : And yet this is all from the airline's perspective, not the customer's. These fees won't be a forecast for the industry's future if travelers will sw
108 mariner : Hmmm? What I quoted was from the media and analysts' perspective. The airline said nothing in those articles. There'll be some seepage, I'm sure, but
109 GentFromAlaska : We have to remember there a couple of third party sites exclusivley set-aside for the military community travel management centers including SATO whi
110 awacsooner : Military travel is different... I think we're talking specifically about expedia, orbitz, kayak, and travelocity.
111 Antoniemey : And people here also ignore the fact that WN INCLUDES the extra cost of bags in their base fare. If you are comparing prices on an advance purchase,
112 Post contains links jerseyguy : To everyone who wanted to know how they would work out the carry-on thing, who pre-paid or who qualifies for free because they booked at flyfrontier.c
113 N908AW : That's not entirely true...Indigo Partners LLC is one of the rumored suitors, but they are only a minority (16.6%) shareholder in Spirit after their
114 Post contains images jerseyguy : Yes, their brand has changed considerably but I'd pick them over Spirit anyday of the week (and twice on sundays )
115 awacsooner : You're not the only one. There is a fierce loyalty to the company that their employees have...the only other US airline I've seen that kind of passio
116 mariner : It's called survival - to a large extent against Southwest. Or because of Southwest. mariner.
117 psa188 : For this I give them credit for honesty. I'd rather pay one fare up front than get constantly nickle and dimed after I've bought my ticket.
118 mikefrommke : That's why the Classic or Classic Plus fares exist on Frontier.
119 PlanesNTrains : .. That's the irony. People hold up the likes of Southwest - which is fine - but ignore that WN is in many responsible for Frontier's woes. It's hard
120 mariner : I don't think any small airline has had to withstand the juggernaut that Southwest was/is at DEN - even the CEO admitted that they changed the model
121 airliner371 : There is absolutely nothing offensive, tasteless or bad about what he said. He was stating a fact.
122 mariner : Mr., Kelly was stating an opinion, not a fact, and I find it fairly tasteless - even offensive - when overtly committed Southwest supporters weigh in
123 airliner371 : Well you are taking it way to personally then, no reason for it and it certainly wasn't meant to be offensive, just to state a fact. Charging for car
124 mariner : Why would it be personal? You keep claiming it is a fact, when it isn't. If Mr. Kelly had said that Frontier is nickel and diming those pax who book
125 airliner371 : He's not the Frontier PR department. Frontier is nickel and dimming, period. I'm not gonna continue this though. Think what you want, but it is certa
126 mariner : I can't do anything other than shrug. Given all that has happened at DEN - including the auction - I think Mr. Kelly might, for once, have just kept
127 skycub : Good lord you do that a lot. Shrug. Shrug. Shrug. Don't your shoulders ever get tired?
128 Post contains images mariner : Haven't done it too much for a while - not since others started copying it. mariner
129 Cubsrule : No, as a number of us have pointed out, F9 wants to change behavior, not collect the fees. Mr. Kelly apparently does not understand this.
130 airliner371 : Of course he understands this, he even mentions it in the article, he just wants it to be seen a different way... That doesn't change the fact that i
131 mariner : So when Frontier was offering $15 fares TTN-CMH that was nickel and diming their passengers? mariner
132 airliner371 : Yes. That is a very low fare, but that doesn't change the fact that they are also nickel and dimming beyond that.
133 mariner : You need to explain that one to me. If you didn't have a bag, you could do the round trip for $30 and $20 over the base fare gets you most of the goo
134 airliner371 : The fare is not nickel and dimming. The definition of nickel and dimming is "to expose to financial hardship or bankruptcy by the accumulation of sma
135 jerseyguy : I know that Frontier's customer base might have an income on the lower part of the scale but $22 each way is hardly a "finanical hardship". Most peop
136 Post contains images mariner : Even so, no one has to pay the charges, the base fare gets you where you want to go, with a small carryon. I don't think (?) we've quite reached the
137 jerseyguy : Actually it was $16 in honor of Ohio State making the Sweet 16 during March Madness. The regular fare is $39 which is pretty good too.
138 FreequentFlier : And who needs an actual PR department when you've got a virtual one right here on A.net?
139 mariner : LOL - hate to tell ya', but a.net isn't the world, or even a teensy-weensy fraction of the travelling public. What amazes me is the attention that Fr
140 Post contains images PlanesNTrains : Lol There seems to be a plethora of shrugs and dickie birds anymore around here - but so far, only one sparrow fart. I only say this because you use
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Attention BCN Spotters: LH A346 Coming Your Way! posted Tue Apr 30 2013 02:18:52 by flyingalex
New International B6 Destination Coming Soon? posted Tue Apr 23 2013 19:40:12 by werdywerd
F9 @ YYC? Reason? posted Wed Apr 17 2013 10:04:31 by rikkus67
F9 And MDW posted Fri Apr 12 2013 08:25:51 by sdoyon
WSJ: Investment Firms Looking At Buying F9 posted Tue Apr 9 2013 12:25:56 by enilria
Could / Should G4 Consider Merging/acquiring F9? posted Tue Apr 2 2013 14:12:46 by STT757
OAG Changes 4/5/2013: AS/B6/DL/F9/UA posted Mon Apr 1 2013 07:21:41 by enilria
When Are 787 Coming Back? posted Thu Mar 14 2013 11:27:51 by joacocifuentes
Good News Coming For SSJ And MC-21 posted Fri Mar 1 2013 14:28:20 by art
Big Changes Coming For Kansas City Intl. (MCI) posted Thu Feb 28 2013 19:35:39 by rising