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Any Cseries Updates?  
User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 388 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 40123 times:

Seems like it's been several weeks since I've seen any news on how the program is progressing. As far as the development of the initial frames, there hasn't been much at all in the form of pictures or updates since the media presentation. Clearly, based on BBD's past precedent with this project, secrecy is to be expected, but it's still so strange...almost eerie..that so little information has been leaked to the public just 1 month prior to the month in which its scheduled to fly. Could it possibly still be on schedule? What building/testing stage must the project be at this point for June flight to still be realistic? Do any of our "insiders" have new pictures or details they can share?  

264 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 39730 times:

Latest update is from April 10:

Quote:
The first CSeries flight test vehicle (FTV1) is in its final stages of build and is progressing towards the transfer to the flight test phase following the completion of the full powering up of the main electrical distribution system in March 2013. The CSeries aircraft is moving closer to obtaining the safety-of-flight permit following the successful completion of the critical series of structural and system tests. The fly-by-wire system testing continues and to date, tests have shown results as expected. As for the assembly of the other flight test vehicles: systems installations are being completed on FTV2; the wings are being mated on FTV3; and the fuselage on FTV4 has entered into the assembly stage - all of which are advancing to schedule.

The latest appearance on photo/video of a CSeries aircraft is from the media presentation in March.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1967 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 39604 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 1):
Latest update is from April 10:

That is a long time. And I've been wondering the same thing as the OP. They should have completed rigging the aircraft with instruments. And should be working on things like taxi tests now. FTV 2 should also be nearing completion.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5402 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 39393 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 2):

They must be very close to engine start, at the very least. Darn that Mirabel for being so far away from spying eyes.



What the...?
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 38941 times:

CSeries Update from the #RAA13 - Regional Airline Association conference 2013:
- FTV 3 has wing mated to fuselage - final stages of structural assembly
- CSeries is finalizing last structural tests before receiving its safety of flight certificate

Picture of FTV1 by Bombardier on twitter:


[Edited 2013-05-07 10:16:04]


Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 38926 times:

Part 4 topic has been archive, so I'll post this here!

I just saw these two tweets go through:

Check out cool pic 1st #CSeries test aircraft rolling her 115 foot wing span through the hangar #RAA2013 #avgeek http://ow.ly/i/23Cdd

Image: http://ow.ly/i/23Cdd/original

#CSeries finalizing last structural tests for safety of flight certificate #avgeek #RAA13 http://ow.ly/i/23CzU3

Image: http://ow.ly/i/23CDp/original

The first picture is interesting, but also might be out of date (?). I see ailerons and elevators are there, as well as the rudders, but no flaps/slats. That said, there seem to be snow outside the hangar, and the technicians surrounding the aircraft are clothed with winter gear, both of which seem amiss for May 7th (I live in Mirabel and there is no more snow the ground) :P


User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 38920 times:

double post as well, woops

[Edited 2013-05-07 10:16:33]

User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 38884 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 5):

Bombardier used to post images with original EXIF data so that the date an image has been shot was identifiable.
With this picture there's no information on that... But I agree that it is certainly a "dated" picture.
I'd say mid-April, since from last Bombardier updates, pictures were 2/3 weeks old when updated.

[Edited 2013-05-07 10:19:59]


Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 38838 times:

I correct myself. I am 99% certain that the picture shared today by Bombardier was shot on March 15, around 10:30pm to be precise. It is identical to the pic shared on March 25 by BBD, just from another angle and taken few minutes earlier...
Same hangar, same configuration of the aircraft (ailerons, rudder position, emergency door open), same snow on ground...
So still no up-to-date pic of the CSeries...
For what we know it could even be already painted....



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 38815 times:

Wow, it's that old? It seems like a weird PR idea to use two months old pictures. People will whisper that there's something they don't want them to see.

User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 3 days ago) and read 38746 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 10):
ow, it's that old? It seems like a weird PR idea to use two months old pictures. People will whisper that there's something they don't want them to see.

BBD's PR strategy is interesting...seems to be the polar opposite of Boeing/Airbus' strategy (Boeing especially).
Boeing: "Listen to this guy that we employ talk about how great our new product is, and how it renders anything else obsolete!" (repeat weekly).
BBD: "New airplane, what new airplane? Well it may or may not exist, but you're gonna have to find where we're hiding it first."

One extent annoys me. The other bugs me, leaving me wanting more (perhaps selfishly), and keeps me on edge as a BBD stockholder.  


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6119 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 38679 times:

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 11):
and keeps me on edge as a BBD stockholder.  

Well, then you must be looking forward to Thursday very much!!  



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineA320FlyGuy From Canada, joined May 2012, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 38620 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 10):

Wow, it's that old? It seems like a weird PR idea to use two months old pictures. People will whisper that there's something they don't want them to see.

Bombardier does have a very...how can I put this diplomatically...."French Canadian" PR approach...and by that I mean that unlike Boeing flaunting every little rivet that is punched into an airframe, Bombardier tends to wait until the product has been perfected. Besides....being based in Quebec, the province likes to think about itself being it's own country...it only stands to reason they would have an iron curtain-esque approach to PR news.

Case in point...the CRJ-1000 was heavily touted on the Bombardier website and then....nothing. At the time, it seemed odd...I know Air Canada had been visited by the Bombardier sales team pushing the CRJ-1000....then nothing for almost a year. As we know now, it was due to the rudder control issues that grounded flight testing. But, it was still really odd at the time. I think that they want to wait until the CSeries has been perfected before really rolling it out and flashing it to the world.

I believe that the CSeries would be great to replace some of our oldest A320s and A319s...will it happen? Who knows...it would be great to support Bombardier...Air Canada as a Crown corporation had an obvious reason to support Bombardier...(much like Air France supporting Airbus)...and of course as everyone knows...we didn't (thanks to a very impressive finance package from Airbus...hehehe)...


User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 38547 times:

More news from AINonline:

Bombardier Upbeat on CSeries Path to First Flight
Quote:
Bombardier has reaffirmed its intention to achieve the first flight of its new CSeries airliner next month, with complete airframe static tests (CAST) on track to establish that flight testing can commence safely.
[...]
The first test aircraft (FTV1) has moved out of the assembly hall at the Montreal Mirabel site to the flight-test hall to undergo functional testing on its various systems. Bombardier has hung the engines from FTV2 and is now installing systems, while it mates FTV3’s wings to the fuselage; the FTV4 fuselage is mainly complete and assembly of FTV5 has just started.
[...]



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2225 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 38435 times:

Quoting A320FlyGuy (Reply 13):
Air Canada as a Crown corporation had an obvious reason to support Bombardier

I am presuming by your past tense that you are referring to back in the day when Air Canada was a crown corporation. It of course isn't now and hasn't been since 1988. I point that out that since some people are still confused by that topic despite 25 passing. But perhaps they still drive an American Motors Pacer, shop at Dominion for groceries and wear Johnny Carson suits from Penny's.


User currently offlineA320FlyGuy From Canada, joined May 2012, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 38362 times:

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 15):
I am presuming by your past tense that you are referring to back in the day when Air Canada was a crown corporation. It of course isn't now and hasn't been since 1988. I point that out that since some people are still confused by that topic despite 25 passing. But perhaps they still drive an American Motors Pacer, shop at Dominion for groceries and wear Johnny Carson suits from Penny's.

Yes I am...I know that AC hasn't been a Crown corporation since 1988...but a lot of people assume that the company still has government influence...and to a certain degree, there still is some influence.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5402 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 38304 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 14):

How is it possible that the plane moved from one hall to another without a single photo? Surely it must have been outdoors for the journey?



What the...?
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 37978 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 17):

if You check the location of Bombardier's hangars at Mirabel, You'll see that they are well isolated, there's not actually too much distance between the assembly hangar and the flight test facility, if they were on opposite sides of the airport I'd understand some pics would come out, but they're like next-door...
And there's the location of Mirabel.... You shall go there on purpose an then, someone may stand there, waiting for the CSeries to appear in-between BBD hangars, like for days and days... and the CSeries went out once (as far as we know now...).
They chose the right place for keeping things "under the radar"...
If Boeing or Airbus take a plane out of a hangar in PAE or TLS, there are so many facilities and people in the surrounding area that one would, almost immediately, notice...

[Edited 2013-05-08 04:50:48]


Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 37691 times:

Article on the Montreal Gazette:

Quote:
Ohio-based Fuller, the chief salesman for the CSeries, said his schedule would take him to Tokyo, Bangkok, Dubai, Bahrain, Cape Town and elsewhere — all before the Paris air show in six weeks.

At the CSeries update (March 7), the same Chet Fuller disclosed that Bombardier is in the "final stages" for 5 additional deals (I'd exclude Porter's conditional order, since it was already one of the undisclosed customers).
And here we have the five locations for those five deals:
- Tokyo - ANA and/or JAL (article on Bloomberg specified those two airlines are specific targets for Bombardier's marketing campaign)
- Bangkok - I'm unaware of any anticipation for airlines based here
- Dubai - flyDubai was among the interested airlines for the 160-seat CS300XCS (eXtra Capacity Seating)
- Bahrain - Gulf Air back in the game? Bahrain Air was considering the CSeries but it declared bankruptcy in February this year.
- Cape Town - South African Airlines or its Express subsidiary... SAA has 11 A319 (8-9 years old) but an all-Airbus fleet, while SAA Express has an all-Bombardier fleet (CR2, CR7 and DH4)



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 37468 times:

First CS100 aircraft got registered by Transport Canada.
Flight Permit Specific Purpose - Experimental
msn: 50001
aircraft model: BD-500-1A10
registration: C-FBCS
Date of record: May 6, 2013
http://www.regosearch.com/aircraft/ca/FBCS



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently onlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12869 posts, RR: 100
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 37193 times:
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Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 19):
- Bahrain - Gulf Air back in the game?

As much as I would like that order, is Gulf Air in a condition to order?

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 19):
- Bangkok - I'm unaware of any anticipation for airlines based here

It might be a small order from one of the smaller Thai based airlines. I'm more excited about the stops in Tokyo or Dubai. However, sales will be tough before about six months of flight test data.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineDexSwart From South Africa, joined Aug 2012, 400 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 37129 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 19):
- Cape Town - South African Airlines or its Express subsidiary... SAA has 11 A319 (8-9 years old) but an all-Airbus fleet, while SAA Express has an all-Bombardier fleet (CR2, CR7 and DH4)

Actually, I'd wager that they're going to pitch to Airlink. Airlink's Avro's and ERJ's would be nicely replaced. And the C series would let 4Z (Airlink) really expand beyond its realm.
And, they'd actually be able to finance the purchase, since they're a separate company and not affected by SA's rediculous CEO's.

Another airline that might get pitched to is MN, or Comair.

They ordered 4 737NGs, and they'll need to start replacing their Classic 737s.


Well, by my speculation at least...



Durban. Melbourne. Denver.
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 36889 times:

Today, Bombardier published its results for the 1st quarter.
The first flight is confirmed to take place "in June".
As usual, Bombardier also published its "Program Status Report" for each airplane family offered, notably, from the CSeries orders, 3 CS100 are missing, which were previously classified as "unspecified customer", in the press release nothing is mentioned, apart from the "firm orders from 9 customers and commitments from 4 additional customers".
That means that the "undisclosed, well established airline" that firmed an order for 3 CS100 +3 options during the 2011 Paris airshow is no longer among the customers.
It was earlier rumored that this airline was Gulf Air, but, when they did not announce any order at the Bahrain airshow last year, all the rumours of a Gulf Air order vanished.
Could it be that it was indeed a Gulf Air order and, given all the troubles the airline is in, they cancelled it?



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 36803 times:

Here's the official explanation by Bombardier:

Quote:
During the first quarter of the current fiscal year, we terminated and removed from the order backlog an order from an undisclosed customer for three CSeries aircraft due to financial difficulties of the customer. This customer also had options for three additional CSeries aircraft.

found here: Bombardier 2013 First Quarter Results



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 36850 times:

Looks like a little bit more of an update from BBD...

http://business.financialpost.com/20...-month-as-bombardier-profit-rises/

Seems vague as what seems to be the norm from Mirabel but it still feels positive thus far. Looking forward to seeing this out of the hangar and doing some ground test in front of a few cameras  


25 Post contains links Paolo92 : http://youtu.be/6dCEG1XqVTg In this video uploaded by Bombardier on Youtube, regarding the above-mentioned RAA conference, there are new images of the
26 JoeCanuck : The do put out some slick videos...more recent pics and more details would be nice. Our CSeries experts have been very quiet of late...I'm hoping no
27 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Here are the pictures. [Edited 2013-05-11 09:12:45]
28 kaneporta1 : Is it just me, or these are engines that I can see hanging under the FTV2 wings? If yes, then that aircraft is quite complete!
29 KarelXWB : Yes both FTV2 engines seems to be attached.
30 Post contains links Paolo92 : AINonline confirms: Bombardier Upbeat on CSeries Path to First Flight
31 KarelXWB : /edit Duplicate post.[Edited 2013-05-12 02:12:42]
32 r2rho : Very good news to see all five test frames in assembly progress - having all of them flying in parallel as soon as possible is critical to advancing
33 Post contains images PHX787 : Lookin good! For those posting photos- keep it up, i love it looks like a beautiful airplane. Hopefully some Japanese LCCs will jump on board with it
34 Post contains images lightsaber : From your link Bombardier Commercial Aircraft marketing vice president Philippe Poutissou said its engineers are preparing to hand over the first air
35 Post contains images r2rho : Great news from an enthusiast's point of view We may have both the A350 and the CSeries flying within days of each other, sometime shortly before or
36 xero9 : Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if someone wanted to check out the maiden flight of the CS100, is that even possible? Is that someone the
37 Quantos : It will happen at Mirabel, so it would probably be possible to watch from somewhere in the vicinity (icar, for instance).
38 Post contains links and images queb : The problem is that Mirabel is in the middle of nowhere but BBD will probably notify medias few hours before 1st flight[Edited 2013-05-22 08:59:48] ht
39 Quantos : Hmm, I wonder where BBD will place the press. It could be at the plant itself, but it's a bit far from the runway, isn't it? Maybe on the roof on one
40 JoeCanuck : First good chuckle of the day...thanks. They must have some real tight security happening there...not a single shot since the first viewing way back
41 queb : I don't know, the paint shop is the building between FTV1 and the taxiway. not visible from the road
42 Post contains links Paolo92 : Bombardier published two videos on youtube, regarding the CSeries, in the last few days: Bombardier CAST SOF Celebration Milestone: complention of saf
43 Post contains images lightsaber : Interesting... a bit late. Or maybe I just worked for companies that did that early. But the flying airframe has *not* complete SOF checks. There is
44 JoeCanuck : Actually, (in seemingly normal BBD fashion), they really didn't say anything specific regarding FTV1. The video with Prof Moore, could be as much as
45 Post contains links Quantos : http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...y+testing+ahead/8455420/story.html They did state that FTV1 remains on course for a first flight by the end of
46 Post contains links Paolo92 : The homepage of cseries.com today became "the CSeries Hub" as called by Bombardier, grouping the latest releases by the company in terms of news/pictu
47 JoeCanuck : It's going to finally seem very real when FTV1 rolls into the paint booth, with all its bits attached.
48 queb : not sure if it will be painted before first flight
49 JoeCanuck : That's true...green planes are test flown all the time. That's as much as a week saved just in avoiding the paint job. I suspect the first paint job
50 Post contains links and images Quantos : Wouldn't it be a bit like the generic Airbus planes with the plane's name marked on it? Perhaps they will use the "CS100" livery with the blue and whi
51 Paolo92 : Yeah, it was among the pictures shared by Karel in his post, earlier this month. Regarding the livery... I think they're going to fly it unpainted...
52 Post contains links challengerdan : From our friends at Contrails Aviation: http://www.airliners.net/uf/6099/phpGx1jVx.jpeg First pic of complete aircraft, in daylight, outside the hanga
53 KarelXWB : Beautiful, I love it. The texts on the tail and fuselage let me believe it will fly without paint.
54 Post contains images golfradio : Can't wait to see it fly.
55 KarelXWB : BTW, why is it attached to the ground with those yellow cables?
56 Aviaponcho : That's what I think also !
57 JoeCanuck : I wonder if that's to prevent a runup incident like the QR340. It seems overkill just for tie downs.
58 kaneporta1 : Kinda looks like the nose is slightly raised. It also looks like it is being refueled!
59 JoeCanuck : It does look like a fuel hose is attached....but I would expect some fire suppression equipment around if that was the case. Maybe the tanks are bein
60 bravo1six : Any fire equipment would be standing off quite a bit in any case and might not make it in frame. There's another aircraft behind her too, so unlikely
61 SPQR : The straps are anchored the wrong way for a run-up, they look like they are set to prevent a roll backwards. It looks like there are also straps near
62 YXwatcherMKE : I would agree with "JoeCanuck" that Fire Fighting equipment would be far enough away from the A/C because if it is to close to the A/C that is on fire
63 kaneporta1 : I think the straps are there to prevent the aircraft from moving as the hydraulic system and parking brakes are probably not activated yet. Better be
64 Post contains images transaeroyyz : Wow, looks awesome
65 JoeCanuck : All you need are chocks to prevent rolling. Those straps are way overkill for that. The front tires are chocked. There are two orange wing jacks near
66 BlueSky1976 : She's a beauty! I cannot wait to see her in the air. Looking at the picture I wonder if it is some sort of weight and balance test. The tail is trimme
67 Post contains links and images Paolo92 : Pictures are now also in A.net db: View Large View MediumPhoto © Matthew Lee - Contrails Aviation PhotographyView Large View MediumPhoto © Patrick C
68 JoeCanuck : I suck at photo anything but these; +45.684983,-74.019053 ...are the google map coordinates to the pad upon which the FTV1 is sitting...I think. It's
69 Post contains links and images DIJKKIJK : It is the Canadian Copycat version of the Sukhoi Superjet. View Large View MediumPhoto © Luigi Maccio - SpotIT And I thought it was the Russians who
70 JoeCanuck : Once it was pretty much decided that twins with engines on wings was the way to go, the aeronautical world became a much less exciting place.
71 Post contains images connies4ever : But this one will work ...
72 Post contains images brilondon : Would it not have to be fueled once to be refueled?
73 KarelXWB : Some updates from Twitter: > Bombardier hints at unveiling undisclosed CSeries customer at #pas13 who will fly it into London City. > @Bombardie
74 Paolo92 : It is the carrier rumored to be "Odyssey Airlines". Let's see wether it really is a new startup or just a project code-name for an airline to fly fro
75 Post contains links and images KarelXWB : Now on Flightglobal: Bombardier appears to name Odyssey as CSeries customer: http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...dyssey-as-cseries-customer-386570/
76 queb : there were thunderstorms yesterday in the Montreal area with 90 kmh winds[Edited 2013-06-02 09:01:57]
77 planemaker : They are doing fuel flow testing.
78 connies4ever : Could be Privat Air, who are in for 5 firm and 5 options. I have thought that PT could be a stalking horse for LH to enter the LCY - JFK market. Alth
79 BlueSky1976 : BA CityFlyer? CityJet? BA dumping their A318s for CS100s, making their LCY-SNN-JFK route nonstop? Speculation, speculation... ...oh, and note that Bo
80 Post contains images PlymSpotter : If CityJet are going to remain a going concern they need to upgrade their fleet over the coming years. It's manageable operating a fleet which is one
81 HOmSaR : Why is the type called the BD-500-1A10 C Series 100? It seems Bombardier jets have more complicated designations than jet engines do?
82 JoeCanuck : It's a Canadian thing...all the numbers and letters must get equal representation.
83 Post contains images lightsaber : Best one liner I've seen on a.net in a bit! Lightsaber
84 Post contains links and images Paolo92 : A yesterday's shot (June 2) appeared on wikipedia. Now the aircraft is no longer tied to the ground and is sitting on its gear, instead than on under-
85 Post contains links KarelXWB : > All of the static testing milestones have been passed. > Static load tests up to close to 150% already. > The aircraft has been fueled in s
86 Quantos : Nice bird! If it's not flying before Paris, this leaves a very small window between the 23rd of June and the 30th!
87 JoeCanuck : You can also see the flaps and slats are deployed, and some access panels are now closed. It's a bit of a relief to see the aircraft not covered with
88 YVRLTN : Any connection Dan? Some pretty hot places in Egypt, Algeria and Libya.
89 JoeCanuck : In the middle east, almost every country has temperatures in the shade above 45 degrees in the summer. I can see runway temperatures easily exceeding
90 Post contains images planemaker : Wouldn't it be funny to see the launch customer for the A319NEO order the CS300 as well! He loves to tweak noses. Then there is always Africa... and
91 mariner : Hasn't that already happened? As far as I know, the Republic order for CS300 is still on the books and Republic was the first to order the A319Neo -
92 DeltaB717 : I don't know who the launch customers are for these but being first to order doesn't automatically make you the launch customer. A la the A380, where
93 planemaker : FR issued an MoU in Paris a few months before Qatar signed their order but since QR will be the first to operate the A319NEO they are considered the
94 Post contains images mariner : These modern semantics are beyond me. Certainly, Republic was the first to order the A319Neo - American came later - and had already ordered the CS 3
95 planemaker : At least BBD is more explicit...there is a launch customer and a launch operator.
96 Post contains links mariner : That's a relief. It gets to be quite a maze here on a.net. Let me rephrase - or let let FlightGlobal rephrase it for me: http://www.flightglobal.com/
97 Post contains images planemaker : And in the QR hypothetical, the "order" order would be reversed.
98 ocracoke : This might simply be a media mistype. He might have stated "47 {*} runway", and the press took it to mean degrees, as in temperature (hence the celsi
99 Post contains links mariner : Sorry, I have no idea what that means. As I understand it Qatar didn't sign until Dubai 2011 but is to be the "first operator." http://www.airteamima
100 Post contains links Paolo92 : H.Hohmeister, CEO of Swiss, told Bloomberg regarding the original order for 30 CS100, that LX is going to take "at least" 10 CS100, the other 20 will
101 sirtoby : Oops, did I miss something? GE geared fans??? And Qatar did not order the CSeries until today!
102 Paolo92 : QR reported several times that is interested in the CSeries... Last statement from Al Baker was:
103 Post contains images PlymSpotter : To my knowledge nowhere beats the Middle East for reference temperatures, but you are right these regions can see similar highs so there could well b
104 queb : Gulf Air is the unidentified customer who ordered 10 CS100 + 6 options in june 2011. Official PR will be released soon.
105 Post contains links BD500 : Interesting development today, it was announced by Bombardier and Gulf Air that a previous firm order for 10 CS100 aircraft, with options for an addit
106 Post contains links Quantos : Gulf Air Confirmed by BBD as one of the previous orders: http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...ntified+CSeries/8477170/story.html
107 YTZ : This is aviation's version of Apple's rectangle with rounded corners.
108 Post contains links Paolo92 : Ilyushin Finance's shareholders approved the CSeries order and it now became firm: Russia's Ilyushin Finance Co. Firms Purchase Agreement for up to 42
109 KarelXWB : This also confirms that FTV1 will not have a full livery during its first flight.
110 Post contains links and images CXH : Some more tidbits of positive news for the CSeries. Ilyushin Finance has firmed up their order: http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/bomba...onditional-cser
111 Post contains links transaeroyyz : Russian leasing company firms up conditional CSeries order for 42 planes! http://www.therecord.com/news-story/...irms-up-conditional-cseries-order/
112 planemaker : While Frontier ordered the CSeries first and then Airbus, in the QR hypothetical the "order" order would have been reversed... order Airbus first and
113 BlueSky1976 : A little birdie told me about new CS300 customer. This one will be a coup. Stay tuned.
114 Post contains images KarelXWB : Please give us a hint?
115 sirtoby : When exactly should we be tuned?
116 BlueSky1976 : I'm not sure what is going on with the site today. I posted this earlier in this thread, but for some reason the post never showed up. Anyway, a good
117 Post contains images r2rho : Nice to see these confirmations, there were too many Unidentified customers in the order book. Together with the unoficially identified Odyssey, this
118 connies4ever : BBD now confirming that Gulf Air is indeed the PAS11 customer who signed for 10+6 CS100. As well, IFC deal for 32+10 CS300 (?) is now a firm deal. So
119 BlueSky1976 : I wish I could, but I cannot - yet. Negotiations with Bombardier are going on now. Patience, young padawan. I'm sure it will be all over the news, in
120 Post contains images KarelXWB : Is it Swiss?
121 Post contains images PlymSpotter : What interests me is whether the CS300 will be able to access LCY in time. When the OEW is firmed it will be a chunk higher than the ERJ-190, but its
122 Post contains images davs5032 : Can you disclose whether the parties are hoping to finish the deal before, and announce at, Bourget, or if it will just be finalized whenever it's fi
123 BlueSky1976 : It is not easyJet and the deal most likely won't be announced at Paris.
124 aryonoco : Seems to be going well for BBD and C-Series, I wish them all the best. Is it too far-fetched to think that they might have 400 orders by the end of th
125 PHX787 : If it's a coup, maybe I can go out on a limb and say JL, because if they order the C-series, they wouldn't therefore order the domestically-produced M
126 Post contains links and images Paolo92 : It is known that Bombardier is in talks with ANA and JAL, from an article on Bloomberg dated February. Last month, the Montreal Gazette published an
127 Post contains images queb : too much secrets here!!!
128 Post contains images BlueSky1976 : Right.
129 YTZ : Just can't see a Japanese carrier passing up the MRJ....
130 Post contains images PlymSpotter : I can, size wise it doesn't really compete at all against the C Series. The MRJ-90 has a max pax of 92, the CS100 is 125 - that's a big difference in
131 Post contains images lightsaber : Long term, I expect high density configurations to be the 'bread and butter" of the C-series. I'm of mixed emotions on that... Tease. Could it be Fly
132 sweair : I look forward to seeing CS100 above as I live right under the flight path to Bromma Airport. Currently Avros fly here.
133 YVRLTN : Comair / Kulula Yes to all three, KQ have E-jets & 73G's to replace eventually, TU have A319's, 735's & 736's. ET are growing, along with the
134 Post contains images lightsaber : Thank you. If ever I've seen a fleet that is in the C-series cross hairs... I've heard rumblings about both in my rumor mill... but take that with a
135 Paolo92 : Luxair was/is one of the potential customers, although it is not the undisclosed customer I mentioned.
136 YTZ : Kinda wish the CSeries flew before the A350. Bombardier could use the publicity. Airbus doesn't need it.
137 Post contains links KarlB737 : Courtesy: Fox Business Bombardier Takes On Boeing, Airbus With Mid-Size Jets Bombardier CEO Pierre Beaudoin on the company’s CSeries jets and expans
138 lightsaber : Interesting. Quantity? Lightsaber
139 Post contains links Paolo92 : Do You mean quantity of planes possibly ordered by Luxair? Well, Luxair could place an order for 5 CS300, if they intend to substitute their B737, al
140 lightsaber : I'm glad I was ambiguous and received both answers! I hope Bombardier receives both orders. Have fuel dock tests been completed? Lightsaber
141 Post contains images columba : They would still an A321 sized aircraft doubt that the CSeries could be stretched that long.....although we are talking Bombardier here
142 lightsaber : Someone please photoshop an A321 length C-sereies.... Now the serious question, I haven't done the math, but how much could the C-series be stretched
143 PHX787 : I kinda can. In Japan, it's about how many you can jam into one metal tube. NH already has firm orders on the MRJ (they were part of the design proce
144 Post contains images PlymSpotter : I would doubt that, there would probably be some reinforcing, but that would take it into Code D territory, which is not somewhere they want to go. B
145 Paolo92 : According to the interview in my previous reply, yes.
146 Post contains links and images Paolo92 : Someone asked On the serious side, I think that a 160-seat (standard config) CS500 would be possible with the same wing and a higher thrust engine, p
147 queb : 35.8m with sharklets
148 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Thank you, I figured it would have to be more. Dan
149 JoeCanuck : BBD increased the wing area for the CRJ-1000 by increasing the chord of the -900 wing, and keeping the same span. If, (and I really think when), they
150 lightsaber : Good point that I overlooked. That implies the wingspan will be unchanged as it isn't worth doing a fraction of a meter wingspan extension. Thank you
151 JoeCanuck : I didn't think the NEO engine would be significantly heavier than the CSeries...and the 319/320 NEO would require about the same thrust range as a po
152 Polot : The NEO engine is 9" larger than the one on the C series though. Will it fit?
153 lightsaber : The NEO has a larger core with a higher pressure ratio and a larger diameter fan (81in) in an engine designed to provide 35k of thrust. (33k certifie
154 Post contains links and images KarelXWB :
155 YTZ : I could see a lot of airlines upgauging to the CS500 simply because it'll closer in operating costs to the 319/73G. In essence, a free upsize. This is
156 BlueSky1976 : I have one question with regards to the hypothetical CS500. Bombardier is offering two variants of CS300 - the standard one and heavier CS300ER with U
157 sirtoby : Per my calculations, a CS500 with the same MTOW as the 2950nm CS300 would be a very good 2000nm range aircraft.
158 lightsaber : One typo in prior post, the NEO engine is heavier than the C-series. Yes. But to sell, they will need to offer 2950nm+ range. But when doing the struc
159 sirtoby : LH would love to have such an aircraft. They do not need 3000nm range, as the extra 1000nm are coming with a lot of excessive weight.
160 Post contains images PlymSpotter : I can see a second wing (same span) set up for a double stretch, much the same as the E-Jets. So the CS100/300 and speculative 500/700 would each sha
161 pnwtraveler : And frankly while some carriers want the extra range, just as many don't need it and are paying for the extra weight necessary. For example the recent
162 Post contains images lightsaber : But enough demand the range that it has an impact on resale value. Obviously less range works, otherwise there would be no CRJ or E-jet sales. While
163 Post contains images sweair : If you could put the 752 UC on a A321 that would be a good start on the way up to 4500nm, 40K GTFs would be needed as well and some more lift, bigger
164 PW100 : The positive is off-course, almost infinite on-wing life! Seriously, if used for long stretches, say 3- 6 hrs, the A319NEO should be able to do 30000
165 Post contains images lightsaber : 100% agree. Pratt was working on that. However, total cost of ownership is higher paying for fuel, but the A319NEO will have *incredible* on wing tim
166 Post contains images davs5032 : You know much more about this than I do, so I'm asking these questions more for my own personal enlightenment than anything... -First, didn't the MD-
167 JoeCanuck : They wouldn't need an all new wing. As stated, the current wing already has about the maximum practical span...so some increase of area would be all
168 lightsaber : Agreed. But that limits the resale and lease companies determine quite a bit of what is purchased. Could 2300nm or so range work? Obviously yes or th
169 davs5032 : -Interesting...good points, agree with your comment about a ~2000-2300nm max range plane being somewhat limited in routes. However, you could also ma
170 Post contains images PW100 : I was being conservative . . . . since I don't know the inital LCF limits (which should grow with sufficient service hours). I can see Pratt offering
171 Post contains images lightsaber : For many markets there is no limit. If I'm assuming the leasing companies' role won't be effected so much by range, than my argument is moot. That I
172 SSTeve : What determines "practical span?"
173 Post contains images PlymSpotter : The ICAO limits on wingspan and aircraft category. As a narrow body aircraft you really don't want to get into Code D territory, it seriously limits
174 Post contains images lightsaber : First, I'm happy the debate is not on if the C-series will do well, but which flavor of stretch. I think we can all agree a stretch will sell well. My
175 Post contains images UnitedTristar : Well as for the new yet unnamed carrier, I am going to go out on a limb and say UA. They need an efficient aircraft that size to replace capacity the
176 davs5032 : IMO the CS300 would make a lot of sense in UAs fleet as they'll have a whole bunch of 73Gs and A319s approaching 20 years old in about 5-7 years. Rep
177 Post contains images UnitedTristar : Yes, but I think the CS100 would be a great fit for high frequency business markets on the east coast from ORD and IAH That combined with replacing so
178 lightsaber : Many possible variations... WIth UTC's deep pockets, they'll figure out whatever has the best ROI or cash flow and run with it... That would be one h
179 Paolo92 : As PAS is approaching I'll give another hint. First it is not UA (if they will sign with BBD, I expect them to order in larger numbers, more than the
180 PHX787 : Looking at the 900 quoted in this reply, is this going to be the size of a 757????? I mean, it looks like it could be serviced from the L-2 Door
181 rikkus67 : The 700 & 900 are mere paper planes, PHX787 (however, one can dream!).
182 YTZ : Curious why a CS500 needs a larger wing? I was under the impression that the current wing is sized large enough to handle a slightly higher MTOW from
183 Post contains links KarelXWB : FTV1 has been handed over to the flight test team. Video here: http://youtu.be/YVR0hVt91A4
184 Post contains links Paolo92 : As Karel posted, Bombardier published a video regarding the FTV1 handover to the flight test team. Since declarations from BBD executives in the past
185 YTZ : Monarch seems to like larger aircraft. I could see them going heavily for the NEO. At that point, the CSeries wouldn't really make sense. Seems to me
186 mad99 : I've never heard of this "500" being discussed at Bombardier.
187 BlueSky1976 : CS500 is a.net's Bombardier equivalent of Boeing's 787-11 and -12, discussed here ad nauseum some time ago as the best and only option to replace 777
188 ferpe : I had a quick model check at prolonging the CS300 with the same extra frames as the 100 to 300 (BTW anyone know the frame spacing of the Cseries?). In
189 Post contains links Aviaponcho : Ferpe, I guess that 1.3 t / per m is more like for widebodies, for Cseries you can go at way less than 1 t For OEW I've got (my own calculations here
190 Post contains images PlymSpotter : For the typical bucket and spade market yes, an A320/321 rammed to the gills is just fine most of the time. But they have also been trying to branch
191 ferpe : Thanks Poncho, when I put this in I get a 600nm loss.
192 Post contains images Aviaponcho : So a CS500 will easily at the same MTOW a 2300 Nm bird ? that's it ? So it's a no brainer BTW what's your pax count for this CS500 ?
193 Post contains images ferpe : I'm not the cabin guy, you are
194 Aviaponcho : What payload did you take for your range estimate ? CS500 @+3.7 m should be 155 PAX one class layout @ 32 in or 12+138 = 150 PAX @ 2 class layout (the
195 Post contains images ferpe : , in the last check I forgot to change this, the previous had 160. Now with 150 pax we would lose 950nm, ie it is a 2000nm bird.
196 Aviaponcho : Not so bad. Cs500 will need a mtow boost But a small one
197 mad99 : Ok Thanks for that! Like i said, i've never seen or heard of this at bbd
198 YTZ : So I take it that in the end, it's possible to get to the CS500 with a small MTOW bump and no changes to the wing?
199 Post contains links and images queb : location of CS300 extra frames, 21 inches between
200 ferpe : Thanks, excellent.
201 kd5mdk : I think it's closer to the 787-10, The 788 and 789 were the official models at launch, and the CS100 and CS300 are the official models for Bombardier
202 JoeCanuck : Bombardier and customers have mentioned the possibility of a plane larger than the CS300, without specifically giving it a name....though I believe B
203 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Will there be a live feed of the first flight, or will they do this in 'secret'? Dan
204 BlueSky1976 : I remember a thread about it and it said that BBD copyrighted everything up to CS900, so... take it for what its worth. Personally, I will not be sur
205 Post contains links Paolo92 : An interesting article by AINonline, with interviews to C.Fuller and M.Arcamone. Bombardier CSeries first flight could happen by the end of June Main
206 neutrino : If by "fruition" you mean authority to offer, I will hazard a guess it will be within 3 years, or even 2 if sales of the first two models roared afte
207 Post contains links KarelXWB : Daily video from Mirabel for the Paris Air Show: Watch the latest updates on the CSeries from Rob Dewar. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZH_vADOVm4&am
208 FlyingGoat : I think an eventual CS500 is a given, and I would not be surprised to see a CS700. The CS900, however, would be a bit of a stretch.
209 ferpe : Thanks for sharing, feels good, also that they work to their own schedule, if it slips a bit into July in the end who cares. Nice with these updates.
210 Post contains links Paolo92 : A new video update from Mirabel, this time there's also the interior of FTV1 and a nice explanation of it (equipment, engineer's workstation...) Paris
211 Post contains links KarelXWB : First production frame being built, well on its way: http://twitter.com/ghimlay/status/346577856870109184
212 Post contains links KarelXWB : Bombardier just confirmed Odyssey as CSeries customer: http://twitter.com/ghimlay/status/346579917275820032
213 PHX787 : Now the issue I have with leasing companies....who the heck do these people deliver to? I am completely in the dark about these companies whenever th
214 Post contains links YYZYYT : Press Release here: http://bombardier.com/en/corporate/m...ses/details?docID=0901260d802c56e9 Correct me if I am wrong, but it's not a leasing compan
215 ferpe : It involves putting exitisers (transducers) on the different parts of the aircraft and sweeping with the frequency to find the resonance frequencies
216 Kaiarahi : Video has been removed.
217 LH707330 : Part of the poor sales of the 739 was the exit door limitation, which limited it to use by full-fare carriers with two classes. In the case of the A3
218 Post contains images lightsaber : Its all based on one's runway performance/ thrust estimates for a given MTOW I expect a little MTOW increase, even with no wing area increase. Partia
219 pnwtraveler : The papers this morning quoted Bombardier as saying the first flight will happen next week. Unspecified specifically and also said that the timing was
220 Post contains links JoeCanuck : This link seems to work if you copy it to the address bar. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3znwkVvXah0&feature=youtube_gdata_player BBD is saying
221 golfradio : I am hoping for at least the low speed taxi test by end of Sunday. There were reports on last Friday, that they are doing a software upgrade based on
222 r2rho : That is a major difference to the A350. For comparison, A350 MSN3 will only fly in october, MSN2 in early 2014. Having all test frames up in the air
223 Post contains images ferpe : If Bombardier can keep their plans as they pan out right now they will be the best managed program between the A380, 787, 350 and Cseries. Wonder why
224 davs5032 : If such mistrust exists, I'd wager it's more based on BBD's relative lack of experience with planes of this size. The step up from the regional jet m
225 Post contains images KarelXWB : I asked myself the same today. Embraer launches its E-Jet E2 - which will EIS after the CSeries - with 365 orders / commitments while the CSeries is
226 Post contains links Paolo92 : VIDEO: Our CEO discusses #CSeries first flight at the end of the month, orders and business expectations http://t.co/42nLYmbb4x #pas13— Bombardier I
227 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Price. Bombardier make excellent aircraft, but so do Embraer/ATR and they are considerably cheaper. Dan
228 Viscount724 : To post a Youtube video in A.net so it appears as a link just delete the"s" in "https".
229 YTZ : But operational costs tend to outweigh acquisition costs. Surely, Bombardier has some room to play with, here.
230 JoeCanuck : Derivatives seem to be the rule rather than the exception. There is less risk and the programs are less expensive than going all new, so there is a s
231 Post contains images planemaker : It seems that people have short memories... From the CRJ700 through to the CRJ1000, as well as the Q400, there were program delays and support proble
232 queb : the opposite is also true, no Cseries... no GTF.
233 Polot : Except there is still the MRJ. He is right though, it is the engines that are driving the next gen of narrowbodies, not the airframes. If PW (and GE)
234 Post contains images planemaker : Absolutely!! PW went from "out of the race" to pole position because of the CSeries! But, hey, they can fall back on improved versions of the IAE, CF
235 queb : Not because of the Cseries, because without the Cseries... no NEO. No CS100... no E2.
236 planemaker : Of course not in "numbers" but the CSeries was the catalyst... everything else came after.
237 JoeCanuck : Nothing in aeronautics, (technology wise), occurs in a vacuum. There are so many companies and technologies involved with every aircraft that it's pre
238 Post contains links planemaker : It wasn't in the cards. IAE and CFM would have continued to improve their engines, as they always have, and A & B would have been ecstatic to mai
239 Post contains links tortugamon : Interesting article on the '787 Tax' on the CSeries. I think Fuller has a point: "But while the company has several sales campaigns underway, includin
240 Post contains images lightsaber : I had high faith that wouldn't be the case... Until Embraer came out of Day #1 of the Paris Air show swinging for the fences. Perhaps it is the "787
241 BlueSky1976 : Paris just began. IIRC, Bombardier always saved the best for last during 2011's show.
242 lightsaber : I hope that is the case... Lightsaber
243 sweair : I think with time the C-series will be a very successful program.
244 KarelXWB : The same applied to the 787 and A350, yet those were (and still are) selling in large numbers.
245 ghifty : But BBD hasn't built an aircraft this large yet. Nor do they offer an entire family of aircraft. In any case, the CSeries is doing alright. The E-jet
246 Post contains links Paolo92 : It seems like easyjet is not going to buy the CSeries (for now). Regarding #Airbus fleet deal, EasyJet says "that's everything" - in other words, don'
247 Post contains links Paolo92 : Paris Airshow - Daily First Flight Readiness Video from Mirabel (18JUN) new daily video is out, this time focuses onto the ground facilities for the f
248 connies4ever : [quote=Polot,reply=233]Except there is still the MRJ.[/quote I'm dubious about whether or not that will ever see the light of day. Strikes me as small
249 Post contains links and images lightsaber : And yet they announced first flight within 2013. Japan’s first indigenous commercial passenger jet, the MRJ, is on track to make its first flight t
250 Post contains links Paolo92 : PARIS: Interview with Bombardier Commercial Aircraft president Mike Arcamone I am a bit confused with the declarations about the first operator for th
251 Post contains links planemaker : There isn't "space" even "in the not so distant future". The fleet planning through to 2022 is detailed in: easyJet plc Fleet Plans 18 June 2013 .
252 Post contains links tortugamon : Daniel Tsang of Aspire Aviation has made the following comment regarding U2's purchase: "However, Airbus made a last-ditch proposal with a per unit pr
253 queb : Sometimes (often), Daniel Tsang is the new Saj Ahmad...
254 aryonoco : PAS is nearly over, and not a single new order for C-Series. As a BBD enthusiast, this is depressing. Looks like we are stuck with the duopoly for the
255 BlueSky1976 : Just wait until the thing is flying in service. E-190 and 195 suffered the same fate - and look where it is now.
256 columba : I think we got spoiled over the last few years with the record sales of the 787, A350, NEO and Max before first flight.
257 JoeCanuck : Nothing has changed for the CSeries. The Skywest order didn't compete against the CSeries and the only order which may have, is the 25 e2-195's for IL
258 KarelXWB : I'm not sure what he is trying to say. Offering a lower price is how business works, and not only aviation.
259 JoeCanuck : Airbus could always offer the lowest deal since their infrastructure is already in place...something Boeing would have to implement from scratch...an
260 mad99 : Agreed! AC / might be a little late but the first 6 are moving forward w/o issues
261 JoeCanuck : And don't forget, LH has admitted that at least part of the delay was caused by modifications requested by customers. Every aircraft had to be modifi
262 mad99 : I think the delayed sections from China helped the delay, at least what i saw. I wasn't aware of the customer mods. Anyway she'll be in the air soon!
263 Post contains links Paolo92 : Paris Airshow - Daily First Flight Readiness Video from Mirabel (19JUN) Daily video from Mirabel is out: focus on the flight test crew.
264 Post contains links wilco737 : Part 2 now available here: Any Cseries Updates? Part 2 (by wilco737 Jun 19 2013 in Civil Aviation) Please continue there, this thread will be locked n
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