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Any Cseries Updates?  
User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 388 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 3 months 18 hours ago) and read 40155 times:

Seems like it's been several weeks since I've seen any news on how the program is progressing. As far as the development of the initial frames, there hasn't been much at all in the form of pictures or updates since the media presentation. Clearly, based on BBD's past precedent with this project, secrecy is to be expected, but it's still so strange...almost eerie..that so little information has been leaked to the public just 1 month prior to the month in which its scheduled to fly. Could it possibly still be on schedule? What building/testing stage must the project be at this point for June flight to still be realistic? Do any of our "insiders" have new pictures or details they can share?  

264 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 39762 times:

Latest update is from April 10:

Quote:
The first CSeries flight test vehicle (FTV1) is in its final stages of build and is progressing towards the transfer to the flight test phase following the completion of the full powering up of the main electrical distribution system in March 2013. The CSeries aircraft is moving closer to obtaining the safety-of-flight permit following the successful completion of the critical series of structural and system tests. The fly-by-wire system testing continues and to date, tests have shown results as expected. As for the assembly of the other flight test vehicles: systems installations are being completed on FTV2; the wings are being mated on FTV3; and the fuselage on FTV4 has entered into the assembly stage - all of which are advancing to schedule.

The latest appearance on photo/video of a CSeries aircraft is from the media presentation in March.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1985 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 39636 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 1):
Latest update is from April 10:

That is a long time. And I've been wondering the same thing as the OP. They should have completed rigging the aircraft with instruments. And should be working on things like taxi tests now. FTV 2 should also be nearing completion.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 39425 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 2):

They must be very close to engine start, at the very least. Darn that Mirabel for being so far away from spying eyes.



What the...?
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 38973 times:

CSeries Update from the #RAA13 - Regional Airline Association conference 2013:
- FTV 3 has wing mated to fuselage - final stages of structural assembly
- CSeries is finalizing last structural tests before receiving its safety of flight certificate

Picture of FTV1 by Bombardier on twitter:


[Edited 2013-05-07 10:16:04]


Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently onlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 38958 times:

Part 4 topic has been archive, so I'll post this here!

I just saw these two tweets go through:

Check out cool pic 1st #CSeries test aircraft rolling her 115 foot wing span through the hangar #RAA2013 #avgeek http://ow.ly/i/23Cdd

Image: http://ow.ly/i/23Cdd/original

#CSeries finalizing last structural tests for safety of flight certificate #avgeek #RAA13 http://ow.ly/i/23CzU3

Image: http://ow.ly/i/23CDp/original

The first picture is interesting, but also might be out of date (?). I see ailerons and elevators are there, as well as the rudders, but no flaps/slats. That said, there seem to be snow outside the hangar, and the technicians surrounding the aircraft are clothed with winter gear, both of which seem amiss for May 7th (I live in Mirabel and there is no more snow the ground) :P


User currently onlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 38952 times:

double post as well, woops

[Edited 2013-05-07 10:16:33]

User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 38916 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 5):

Bombardier used to post images with original EXIF data so that the date an image has been shot was identifiable.
With this picture there's no information on that... But I agree that it is certainly a "dated" picture.
I'd say mid-April, since from last Bombardier updates, pictures were 2/3 weeks old when updated.

[Edited 2013-05-07 10:19:59]


Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 38870 times:

I correct myself. I am 99% certain that the picture shared today by Bombardier was shot on March 15, around 10:30pm to be precise. It is identical to the pic shared on March 25 by BBD, just from another angle and taken few minutes earlier...
Same hangar, same configuration of the aircraft (ailerons, rudder position, emergency door open), same snow on ground...
So still no up-to-date pic of the CSeries...
For what we know it could even be already painted....



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently onlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 38847 times:

Wow, it's that old? It seems like a weird PR idea to use two months old pictures. People will whisper that there's something they don't want them to see.

User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 38778 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 10):
ow, it's that old? It seems like a weird PR idea to use two months old pictures. People will whisper that there's something they don't want them to see.

BBD's PR strategy is interesting...seems to be the polar opposite of Boeing/Airbus' strategy (Boeing especially).
Boeing: "Listen to this guy that we employ talk about how great our new product is, and how it renders anything else obsolete!" (repeat weekly).
BBD: "New airplane, what new airplane? Well it may or may not exist, but you're gonna have to find where we're hiding it first."

One extent annoys me. The other bugs me, leaving me wanting more (perhaps selfishly), and keeps me on edge as a BBD stockholder.  


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 38711 times:

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 11):
and keeps me on edge as a BBD stockholder.  

Well, then you must be looking forward to Thursday very much!!  



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineA320FlyGuy From Canada, joined May 2012, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 38652 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 10):

Wow, it's that old? It seems like a weird PR idea to use two months old pictures. People will whisper that there's something they don't want them to see.

Bombardier does have a very...how can I put this diplomatically...."French Canadian" PR approach...and by that I mean that unlike Boeing flaunting every little rivet that is punched into an airframe, Bombardier tends to wait until the product has been perfected. Besides....being based in Quebec, the province likes to think about itself being it's own country...it only stands to reason they would have an iron curtain-esque approach to PR news.

Case in point...the CRJ-1000 was heavily touted on the Bombardier website and then....nothing. At the time, it seemed odd...I know Air Canada had been visited by the Bombardier sales team pushing the CRJ-1000....then nothing for almost a year. As we know now, it was due to the rudder control issues that grounded flight testing. But, it was still really odd at the time. I think that they want to wait until the CSeries has been perfected before really rolling it out and flashing it to the world.

I believe that the CSeries would be great to replace some of our oldest A320s and A319s...will it happen? Who knows...it would be great to support Bombardier...Air Canada as a Crown corporation had an obvious reason to support Bombardier...(much like Air France supporting Airbus)...and of course as everyone knows...we didn't (thanks to a very impressive finance package from Airbus...hehehe)...


User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 38579 times:

More news from AINonline:

Bombardier Upbeat on CSeries Path to First Flight
Quote:
Bombardier has reaffirmed its intention to achieve the first flight of its new CSeries airliner next month, with complete airframe static tests (CAST) on track to establish that flight testing can commence safely.
[...]
The first test aircraft (FTV1) has moved out of the assembly hall at the Montreal Mirabel site to the flight-test hall to undergo functional testing on its various systems. Bombardier has hung the engines from FTV2 and is now installing systems, while it mates FTV3’s wings to the fuselage; the FTV4 fuselage is mainly complete and assembly of FTV5 has just started.
[...]



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2228 posts, RR: 12
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 38467 times:

Quoting A320FlyGuy (Reply 13):
Air Canada as a Crown corporation had an obvious reason to support Bombardier

I am presuming by your past tense that you are referring to back in the day when Air Canada was a crown corporation. It of course isn't now and hasn't been since 1988. I point that out that since some people are still confused by that topic despite 25 passing. But perhaps they still drive an American Motors Pacer, shop at Dominion for groceries and wear Johnny Carson suits from Penny's.


User currently offlineA320FlyGuy From Canada, joined May 2012, 25 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 38394 times:

Quoting pnwtraveler (Reply 15):
I am presuming by your past tense that you are referring to back in the day when Air Canada was a crown corporation. It of course isn't now and hasn't been since 1988. I point that out that since some people are still confused by that topic despite 25 passing. But perhaps they still drive an American Motors Pacer, shop at Dominion for groceries and wear Johnny Carson suits from Penny's.

Yes I am...I know that AC hasn't been a Crown corporation since 1988...but a lot of people assume that the company still has government influence...and to a certain degree, there still is some influence.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 38336 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 14):

How is it possible that the plane moved from one hall to another without a single photo? Surely it must have been outdoors for the journey?



What the...?
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 38010 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 17):

if You check the location of Bombardier's hangars at Mirabel, You'll see that they are well isolated, there's not actually too much distance between the assembly hangar and the flight test facility, if they were on opposite sides of the airport I'd understand some pics would come out, but they're like next-door...
And there's the location of Mirabel.... You shall go there on purpose an then, someone may stand there, waiting for the CSeries to appear in-between BBD hangars, like for days and days... and the CSeries went out once (as far as we know now...).
They chose the right place for keeping things "under the radar"...
If Boeing or Airbus take a plane out of a hangar in PAE or TLS, there are so many facilities and people in the surrounding area that one would, almost immediately, notice...

[Edited 2013-05-08 04:50:48]


Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 37723 times:

Article on the Montreal Gazette:

Quote:
Ohio-based Fuller, the chief salesman for the CSeries, said his schedule would take him to Tokyo, Bangkok, Dubai, Bahrain, Cape Town and elsewhere — all before the Paris air show in six weeks.

At the CSeries update (March 7), the same Chet Fuller disclosed that Bombardier is in the "final stages" for 5 additional deals (I'd exclude Porter's conditional order, since it was already one of the undisclosed customers).
And here we have the five locations for those five deals:
- Tokyo - ANA and/or JAL (article on Bloomberg specified those two airlines are specific targets for Bombardier's marketing campaign)
- Bangkok - I'm unaware of any anticipation for airlines based here
- Dubai - flyDubai was among the interested airlines for the 160-seat CS300XCS (eXtra Capacity Seating)
- Bahrain - Gulf Air back in the game? Bahrain Air was considering the CSeries but it declared bankruptcy in February this year.
- Cape Town - South African Airlines or its Express subsidiary... SAA has 11 A319 (8-9 years old) but an all-Airbus fleet, while SAA Express has an all-Bombardier fleet (CR2, CR7 and DH4)



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 37500 times:

First CS100 aircraft got registered by Transport Canada.
Flight Permit Specific Purpose - Experimental
msn: 50001
aircraft model: BD-500-1A10
registration: C-FBCS
Date of record: May 6, 2013
http://www.regosearch.com/aircraft/ca/FBCS



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 37225 times:
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Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 19):
- Bahrain - Gulf Air back in the game?

As much as I would like that order, is Gulf Air in a condition to order?

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 19):
- Bangkok - I'm unaware of any anticipation for airlines based here

It might be a small order from one of the smaller Thai based airlines. I'm more excited about the stops in Tokyo or Dubai. However, sales will be tough before about six months of flight test data.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineDexSwart From South Africa, joined Aug 2012, 443 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 37161 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 19):
- Cape Town - South African Airlines or its Express subsidiary... SAA has 11 A319 (8-9 years old) but an all-Airbus fleet, while SAA Express has an all-Bombardier fleet (CR2, CR7 and DH4)

Actually, I'd wager that they're going to pitch to Airlink. Airlink's Avro's and ERJ's would be nicely replaced. And the C series would let 4Z (Airlink) really expand beyond its realm.
And, they'd actually be able to finance the purchase, since they're a separate company and not affected by SA's rediculous CEO's.

Another airline that might get pitched to is MN, or Comair.

They ordered 4 737NGs, and they'll need to start replacing their Classic 737s.


Well, by my speculation at least...



Durban. Melbourne. Denver.
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 36921 times:

Today, Bombardier published its results for the 1st quarter.
The first flight is confirmed to take place "in June".
As usual, Bombardier also published its "Program Status Report" for each airplane family offered, notably, from the CSeries orders, 3 CS100 are missing, which were previously classified as "unspecified customer", in the press release nothing is mentioned, apart from the "firm orders from 9 customers and commitments from 4 additional customers".
That means that the "undisclosed, well established airline" that firmed an order for 3 CS100 +3 options during the 2011 Paris airshow is no longer among the customers.
It was earlier rumored that this airline was Gulf Air, but, when they did not announce any order at the Bahrain airshow last year, all the rumours of a Gulf Air order vanished.
Could it be that it was indeed a Gulf Air order and, given all the troubles the airline is in, they cancelled it?



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 36835 times:

Here's the official explanation by Bombardier:

Quote:
During the first quarter of the current fiscal year, we terminated and removed from the order backlog an order from an undisclosed customer for three CSeries aircraft due to financial difficulties of the customer. This customer also had options for three additional CSeries aircraft.

found here: Bombardier 2013 First Quarter Results



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineYXXMIKE From Canada, joined Apr 2008, 308 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 36882 times:

Looks like a little bit more of an update from BBD...

http://business.financialpost.com/20...-month-as-bombardier-profit-rises/

Seems vague as what seems to be the norm from Mirabel but it still feels positive thus far. Looking forward to seeing this out of the hangar and doing some ground test in front of a few cameras  


User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 36634 times:

http://youtu.be/6dCEG1XqVTg

In this video uploaded by Bombardier on Youtube, regarding the above-mentioned RAA conference, there are new images of the whole FTV fleet:
- FTV1 - picture seen earlier, dated "March"; two pictures dated "April" in which wires and harnesses are seen being installed.
- FTV2 - two pictures where it looks structurally complete, movable surfaces, systems and wires to be installed.
- FTV3 - one picture where it looks structurally almost complete (tail assembly still missing).
- FTV4 - one picture, fuselage mated together.
- FTV5 - one picture, fuselage sections.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 36759 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 26):

The do put out some slick videos...more recent pics and more details would be nice. Our CSeries experts have been very quiet of late...I'm hoping no news is good news.

Still...we've waited this long...a bit longer won't cause an aneurysm, I guess....hopefully.



What the...?
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 37224 times:

Here are the pictures.

http://oi41.tinypic.com/2q2k9ac.jpg



http://oi41.tinypic.com/2z69etu.jpg



http://oi42.tinypic.com/689cuf.jpg



http://oi39.tinypic.com/303a45k.jpg



http://oi43.tinypic.com/2u70plj.jpg



http://oi44.tinypic.com/mcrk3k.jpg



http://oi43.tinypic.com/2q893du.jpg



http://oi42.tinypic.com/97l7xd.jpg

[Edited 2013-05-11 09:12:45]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinekaneporta1 From Greece, joined May 2005, 739 posts, RR: 12
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 36927 times:

Is it just me, or these are engines that I can see hanging under the FTV2 wings? If yes, then that aircraft is quite complete!


I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 36757 times:

Yes both FTV2 engines seems to be attached.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 36719 times:

Quoting kaneporta1 (Reply 29):

AINonline confirms:
Bombardier Upbeat on CSeries Path to First Flight

Quote:
Bombardier has hung the engines from FTV2 and is now installing systems



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 36356 times:

/edit

Duplicate post.

[Edited 2013-05-12 02:12:42]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently onliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2587 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 35851 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 26):
- FTV1 - picture seen earlier, dated "March"; two pictures dated "April" in which wires and harnesses are seen being installed.
- FTV2 - two pictures where it looks structurally complete, movable surfaces, systems and wires to be installed.
- FTV3 - one picture where it looks structurally almost complete (tail assembly still missing).
- FTV4 - one picture, fuselage mated together.
- FTV5 - one picture, fuselage sections.

Very good news to see all five test frames in assembly progress - having all of them flying in parallel as soon as possible is critical to advancing quickly through the flight test program.

By comparison, the A350 has only MSN1&3 under assembly, AFAIK MSN2 has not yet arrived in FAL - things are looking better at BBD.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 35871 times:

Lookin good! For those posting photos- keep it up, i love it   looks like a beautiful airplane. Hopefully some Japanese LCCs will jump on board with it


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 35719 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 31):
AINonline confirms:
Bombardier Upbeat on CSeries Path to First Flight

From your link
Bombardier Commercial Aircraft marketing vice president Philippe Poutissou said its engineers are preparing to hand over the first aircraft to the flight-test team in time to achieve the first flight in June.

Most excellent! While Bombardier might due a bit of 'activation' (verify control movement, or what they call functional testing) prior to hand over to flight test, I'll consider the first major 'flight test' milestone when the plane is at the fuel dock.   

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently onliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2587 posts, RR: 1
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 34856 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 35):
Bombardier Commercial Aircraft marketing vice president Philippe Poutissou said its engineers are preparing to hand over the first aircraft to the flight-test team in time to achieve the first flight in June.

Great news from an enthusiast's point of view   We may have both the A350 and the CSeries flying within days of each other, sometime shortly before or around Le Bourget...    And I expect BBD to have a good show performance and announce a few more orders. June should be an exciting month!


User currently offlinexero9 From Canada, joined Feb 2007, 152 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 34219 times:

Forgive me if this is a stupid question, but if someone wanted to check out the maiden flight of the CS100, is that even possible? Is that someone the average Joe would even do? I think it would be fun to make a day of it to go to Montreal and watch.

User currently onlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 34152 times:

It will happen at Mirabel, so it would probably be possible to watch from somewhere in the vicinity (icar, for instance).

User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 34130 times:

The problem is that Mirabel is in the middle of nowhere but BBD will probably notify medias few hours before 1st flight

[Edited 2013-05-22 08:59:48]

http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/17/03/84/59/mirabe10.jpg
http://goo.gl/maps/fkN98


[Edited 2013-05-22 09:16:38]

User currently onlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 33995 times:

Hmm, I wonder where BBD will place the press. It could be at the plant itself, but it's a bit far from the runway, isn't it? Maybe on the roof on one of the buildings, if that's accessible?

What about the terminal itself? It is still opened to everyone?

[Edited 2013-05-22 09:23:49]

User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 33952 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 39):

First good chuckle of the day...thanks.

They must have some real tight security happening there...not a single shot since the first viewing way back when. The last we heard was that FTV1 was going to be turned over to the flight test department...'soon'.

Any rumours about whether or not it has snuck into the paint booth?



What the...?
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 33813 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 41):
Any rumours about whether or not it has snuck into the paint booth?

I don't know, the paint shop is the building between FTV1 and the taxiway. not visible from the road


User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 33150 times:

Bombardier published two videos on youtube, regarding the CSeries, in the last few days:

Bombardier CAST SOF Celebration
Milestone: complention of safety of flight tests on the static airframe.

A Visit of the CSeries FTV1 with Professor Karl Moore
There's the FTV 1 which looks complete, not painted. Prof. Karl Moore of McGill University comments on the program.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 33104 times:
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Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 43):
Milestone: complention of safety of flight tests on the static airframe.

Interesting... a bit late. Or maybe I just worked for companies that did that early.   

But the flying airframe has *not* complete SOF checks. There is quite a bit of work left to be done. I'd love a checklist and status update.   

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 32938 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 44):
But the flying airframe has *not* complete SOF checks. There is quite a bit of work left to be done. I'd love a checklist and status update

Actually, (in seemingly normal BBD fashion), they really didn't say anything specific regarding FTV1. The video with Prof Moore, could be as much as a few weeks old, (which I suspect given the number of panels still missing).



What the...?
User currently onlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 32662 times:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...y+testing+ahead/8455420/story.html

They did state that FTV1 remains on course for a first flight by the end of June.


User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 46, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 32420 times:

The homepage of cseries.com today became "the CSeries Hub" as called by Bombardier, grouping the latest releases by the company in terms of news/pictures/videos.

Nice graphics.

[Edited 2013-05-30 15:46:21]


Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 32216 times:

It's going to finally seem very real when FTV1 rolls into the paint booth, with all its bits attached.


What the...?
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 32199 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 48):

It's going to finally seem very real when FTV1 rolls into the paint booth, with all its bits attached.

not sure if it will be painted before first flight


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 49, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 32228 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 49):
not sure if it will be painted before first flight

That's true...green planes are test flown all the time. That's as much as a week saved just in avoiding the paint job.

I suspect the first paint job will include the logo of their official launch customer.



What the...?
User currently onlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 31990 times:

Wouldn't it be a bit like the generic Airbus planes with the plane's name marked on it? Perhaps they will use the "CS100" livery with the blue and white streaks, similar to what is shown at the top of http://cseries.com/ ? Anyway, I plan to be there to see this thing fly  

I just noticed something interesting on the "photos" section of the http://cseries.com webpage. This is of course not surprising at all, but there is a picture of flaps being installed (in the 2013-05-09 update).

[Edited 2013-05-31 04:21:20]

User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 51, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 31829 times:

Quoting Quantos (Reply 50):
I just noticed something interesting on the "photos" section of the http://cseries.com webpage. This is of course not surprising at all, but there is a picture of flaps being installed (in the 2013-05-09 update).

Yeah, it was among the pictures shared by Karel in his post, earlier this month.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 27):

Regarding the livery... I think they're going to fly it unpainted... If you see the previous aircrafts developed by BBD, taking as an example the CRJ-X, they performed the maiden flight and later on during the test program they painted it.

Anyway I'm looking fwd for 1st flight and it's a pity that I wouldn't be able to be there... I trust BBD will host a webcast as they did for the program update in march, then I'd be watching it live!



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinechallengerdan From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 172 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 31628 times:

From our friends at Contrails Aviation:

http://www.airliners.net/uf/6099/phpGx1jVx.jpeg

First pic of complete aircraft, in daylight, outside the hangar.
Just beautiful!



if your flight goes MX in YUL, I might be called to fix it!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 53, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 31473 times:

Beautiful, I love it. The texts on the tail and fuselage let me believe it will fly without paint.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinegolfradio From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 749 posts, RR: 2
Reply 54, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 31487 times:

Quoting challengerdan (Reply 52):

  

Can't wait to see it fly.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 55, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 31429 times:

BTW, why is it attached to the ground with those yellow cables?


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 56, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 31347 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 53):

That's what I think also !


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 57, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 31231 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 55):
BTW, why is it attached to the ground with those yellow cables?

I wonder if that's to prevent a runup incident like the QR340. It seems overkill just for tie downs.



What the...?
User currently offlinekaneporta1 From Greece, joined May 2005, 739 posts, RR: 12
Reply 58, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 30969 times:

Kinda looks like the nose is slightly raised. It also looks like it is being refueled!


I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 59, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 30903 times:

Quoting kaneporta1 (Reply 58):

It does look like a fuel hose is attached....but I would expect some fire suppression equipment around if that was the case. Maybe the tanks are being flushed.



What the...?
User currently offlinebravo1six From Canada, joined Dec 2007, 397 posts, RR: 2
Reply 60, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 30812 times:

Any fire equipment would be standing off quite a bit in any case and might not make it in frame. There's another aircraft behind her too, so unlikely it was fueling.

User currently offlineSPQR From Canada, joined Jun 2011, 99 posts, RR: 0
Reply 61, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 30819 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 57):

The straps are anchored the wrong way for a run-up, they look like they are set to prevent a roll backwards. It looks like there are also straps near the front, visible by the nose gear that also look anchored in the same direction. I'm not sure if the yellow by the starboard engine is another strap or if it's a jack stand (though it looks like all the other jacks are orange not yellow)


User currently offlineYXwatcherMKE From United States of America, joined May 2007, 971 posts, RR: 2
Reply 62, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 30803 times:

I would agree with "JoeCanuck" that Fire Fighting equipment would be far enough away from the A/C because if it is to close to the A/C that is on fire it may within the fire its self. which is pointless to have it there then.


I miss the 60's & 70's when you felt like a guest on the plane not cattle like today
User currently offlinekaneporta1 From Greece, joined May 2005, 739 posts, RR: 12
Reply 63, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 30803 times:

I think the straps are there to prevent the aircraft from moving as the hydraulic system and parking brakes are probably not activated yet. Better be safe than sorry...


I'd rather die peacefully in my sleep, like my grandfather, not terrified and screaming, like his passengers
User currently offlinetransaeroyyz From Canada, joined Dec 2010, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 64, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 30829 times:

Wow, looks awesome         

User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 65, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 30690 times:

Quoting SPQR (Reply 61):
The straps are anchored the wrong way for a run-up, they look like they are set to prevent a roll backwards.

All you need are chocks to prevent rolling. Those straps are way overkill for that. The front tires are chocked. There are two orange wing jacks near the mains and another near the straps at the front.

It could be the straps are just to stabilize the aircraft on the jacks.

That is definitely a hose going to the fuel filler opening...but it's a guess as to whether it's fuelling or washing the tanks.

Could they be weighing the plane or would that have been done indoors?

This would all be so much easier if they would just give us moment by moment memos.



What the...?
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1871 posts, RR: 4
Reply 66, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 30554 times:

She's a beauty! I cannot wait to see her in the air.

Looking at the picture I wonder if it is some sort of weight and balance test. The tail is trimmed all the way down.

[Edited 2013-06-02 01:09:42]


STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 67, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 30528 times:

Pictures are now also in A.net db:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matthew Lee - Contrails Aviation Photography


View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Patrick Cardinal



It's beautiful  



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 68, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 30380 times:

I suck at photo anything but these;

+45.684983,-74.019053

...are the google map coordinates to the pad upon which the FTV1 is sitting...I think. It's the green arrow.

Anyone know the purpose of the pad?

I'll bet a jelly donut there are load cells in/on/under those jack stands.

Talk about trivia, eh?

[Edited 2013-06-02 02:30:44]


What the...?
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1785 posts, RR: 4
Reply 69, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 30349 times:

It is the Canadian Copycat version of the Sukhoi Superjet. 
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Luigi Maccio - SpotIT



And I thought it was the Russians who copied from others, and not the other way around   



Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 70, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 30196 times:

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 69):

Once it was pretty much decided that twins with engines on wings was the way to go, the aeronautical world became a much less exciting place.



What the...?
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 71, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 30129 times:

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 69):
It is the Canadian Copycat version of the Sukhoi Superjet.

But this one will work ...

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 70):

Once it was pretty much decided that twins with engines on wings was the way to go, the aeronautical world became a much less exciting place.

  



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlinebrilondon From Canada, joined Aug 2005, 4138 posts, RR: 1
Reply 72, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 30064 times:

Quoting kaneporta1 (Reply 58):
It also looks like it is being refueled!

Would it not have to be fueled once to be refueled? 



Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 73, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 30204 times:

Some updates from Twitter:

> Bombardier hints at unveiling undisclosed CSeries customer at #pas13 who will fly it into London City.
> @Bombardier_Aero sees "strong uptake" in CS100 orders in Africa in next 3-5 years.
> CSeries will not fly by #PAS13, #Bombardier exec confirm.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 74, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 30017 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 73):
> Bombardier hints at unveiling undisclosed CSeries customer at #pas13 who will fly it into London City.

It is the carrier rumored to be "Odyssey Airlines". Let's see wether it really is a new startup or just a project code-name for an airline to fly from LCY (BA to implement its LCY-based fleet - my speculation)



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 75, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 29844 times:

Now on Flightglobal: Bombardier appears to name Odyssey as CSeries customer:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...dyssey-as-cseries-customer-386570/

And also:

Quote:
Yet another customer, which remains undisclosed, plans to operate the aircraft out of a "47 [Celsius] runway", says Fuller.

Who could this be?  scratchchin 

[Edited 2013-06-02 08:18:34]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 76, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 29680 times:

Quoting kaneporta1 (Reply 63):

I think the straps are there to prevent the aircraft from moving as the hydraulic system and parking brakes are probably not activated yet. Better be safe than sorry...

there were thunderstorms yesterday in the Montreal area with 90 kmh winds

[Edited 2013-06-02 09:01:57]

User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 77, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 30029 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 65):
That is definitely a hose going to the fuel filler opening...but it's a guess as to whether it's fuelling or washing the tanks.

They are doing fuel flow testing.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 78, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 29965 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 75):
Quote:
Yet another customer, which remains undisclosed, plans to operate the aircraft out of a "47 [Celsius] runway", says Fuller.

Who could this be? scratchchin

Could be Privat Air, who are in for 5 firm and 5 options. I have thought that PT could be a stalking horse for LH to enter the LCY - JFK market. Although they are a "disclosed" customer.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1871 posts, RR: 4
Reply 79, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 29990 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 75):
And also:

Quote:
Yet another customer, which remains undisclosed, plans to operate the aircraft out of a "47 [Celsius] runway", says Fuller.

Who could this be? scratchchin

BA CityFlyer? CityJet? BA dumping their A318s for CS100s, making their LCY-SNN-JFK route nonstop?

Speculation, speculation...

...oh, and note that Bombardier did not say easyJet is not buying CSeries - they said they are not announcing the purchase at Paris.



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11616 posts, RR: 60
Reply 80, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 29828 times:

If CityJet are going to remain a going concern they need to upgrade their fleet over the coming years. It's manageable operating a fleet which is one generation behind the current technology, but two generations behind will see them really struggle. But I was under the impression that their future is uncertain, so I would expect to hear more about that before an order is placed.

I fully expect IAG to order the C Series for BACF at LCY, but the method could be interesting. Do they order it just for BACF and transfer the JFK route to them, or do IAG order the C Series as a 737 replacement at LGW with a couple of aircraft operating out of LCY. Then there is Vueling to consider - it'll be an interesting one.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 75):
And also:

Quote:
Yet another customer, which remains undisclosed, plans to operate the aircraft out of a "47 [Celsius] runway", says Fuller.

Who could this be?

OK, that is a cryptic one. I can think of plenty of Middle Eastern airports which have a reference temperature around 43 degrees, but very few which are near 47. I may be missing some, but I think that means Ahrwaz in Iran, or Damman in Saudi - both with reference temperatures just over 46. Unless they are going on average temperature, in which case Kuwait City is just under 47 degrees on average.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineHOmSaR From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1165 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day ago) and read 29795 times:

Why is the type called the BD-500-1A10 C Series 100?

It seems Bombardier jets have more complicated designations than jet engines do?



I was raised by a cup of coffee.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 82, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 29632 times:

Quoting HOmSaR (Reply 81):

It's a Canadian thing...all the numbers and letters must get equal representation.



What the...?
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 83, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 29234 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 69):

It is the Canadian Copycat version of the Sukhoi Superjet.

  

Best one liner I've seen on a.net in a bit!  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 84, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 28884 times:

A yesterday's shot (June 2) appeared on wikipedia.



Now the aircraft is no longer tied to the ground and is sitting on its gear, instead than on under-wing supports.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 85, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 28678 times:

> All of the static testing milestones have been passed.
> Static load tests up to close to 150% already.
> The aircraft has been fueled in several steps.
> The aircraft has also been pressurized on the ground.
> Ground vibration tests are the next step followed by engine start up, low speed and high speed taxi tests.
> FTV1 will not fly by the time of the Paris air show.

Story here:
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....e-xml/awx_06_03_2013_p0-584408.xml

[Edited 2013-06-03 07:18:03]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently onlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 86, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 28491 times:

Nice bird!

If it's not flying before Paris, this leaves a very small window between the 23rd of June and the 30th!


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 87, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 28151 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 84):

You can also see the flaps and slats are deployed, and some access panels are now closed. It's a bit of a relief to see the aircraft not covered with various scaffolding.



What the...?
User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 27945 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 73):
> @Bombardier_Aero sees "strong uptake" in CS100 orders in Africa in next 3-5 years.
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 80):
OK, that is a cryptic one. I can think of plenty of Middle Eastern airports which have a reference temperature around 43 degrees, but very few which are near 47. I may be missing some, but I think that means Ahrwaz in Iran, or Damman in Saudi - both with reference temperatures just over 46. Unless they are going on average temperature, in which case Kuwait City is just under 47 degrees on average.

Any connection Dan? Some pretty hot places in Egypt, Algeria and Libya.



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 89, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 27755 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 88):

In the middle east, almost every country has temperatures in the shade above 45 degrees in the summer. I can see runway temperatures easily exceeding 47 under the afternoon sun.



What the...?
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 90, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 27801 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 89):
In the middle east, almost every country has temperatures in the shade above 45 degrees in the summer. I can see runway temperatures easily exceeding 47 under the afternoon sun.

Wouldn't it be funny to see the launch customer for the A319NEO order the CS300 as well!  He loves to tweak noses. Then there is always Africa... and BBD is trying to be ambitious in Africa.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25012 posts, RR: 85
Reply 91, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 27761 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting planemaker (Reply 90):
Wouldn't it be funny to see the launch customer for the A319NEO order the CS300 as well!

Hasn't that already happened?

As far as I know, the Republic order for CS300 is still on the books and Republic was the first to order the A319Neo - for Frontier but with the order in Republic's name.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineDeltaB717 From Australia, joined Jun 2012, 413 posts, RR: 0
Reply 92, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 27721 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 91):
As far as I know, the Republic order for CS300 is still on the books and Republic was the first to order the A319Neo - for Frontier but with the order in Republic's name.

I don't know who the launch customers are for these but being first to order doesn't automatically make you the launch customer. A la the A380, where SQ was not the first to order but was the launch customer!


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 93, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 27710 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 91):
As far as I know, the Republic order for CS300 is still on the books and Republic was the first to order the A319Neo - for Frontier but with the order in Republic's name.

FR issued an MoU in Paris a few months before Qatar signed their order but since QR will be the first to operate the A319NEO they are considered the launch customer.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25012 posts, RR: 85
Reply 94, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 27715 times:
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Quoting DeltaB717 (Reply 92):
I don't know who the launch customers are for these but being first to order doesn't automatically make you the launch customer. A la the A380, where SQ was not the first to order but was the launch customer!

These modern semantics are beyond me.  

Certainly, Republic was the first to order the A319Neo - American came later - and had already ordered the CS 300.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 95, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 27696 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 94):
These modern semantics are beyond me.

At least BBD is more explicit...there is a launch customer and a launch operator.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25012 posts, RR: 85
Reply 96, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 27734 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting planemaker (Reply 95):
At least BBD is more explicit...there is a launch customer and a launch operator.

That's a relief. It gets to be quite a maze here on a.net.

Let me rephrase - or let let FlightGlobal rephrase it for me:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...s-deal-includes-40-a319neo-358626/

US carrier Frontier Airlines' parent Republic Airways Holdings has tentatively signed to take 40 Airbus A319neos and 40 A320neos.

The company becomes the first to commit publicly to the A319neo, which is seen as a competitor to the Bombardier CSeries.


And Republic had already ordered the C Series.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 97, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 27749 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 96):
And Republic had already ordered the C Series.

And in the QR hypothetical, the "order" order would be reversed.  



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineocracoke From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 680 posts, RR: 1
Reply 98, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 27466 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 75):

Quote:
Yet another customer, which remains undisclosed, plans to operate the aircraft out of a "47 [Celsius] runway", says Fuller.

Who could this be?   
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 80):
OK, that is a cryptic one. I can think of plenty of Middle Eastern airports which have a reference temperature around 43 degrees, but very few which are near 47. I may be missing some, but I think that means Ahrwaz in Iran, or Damman in Saudi - both with reference temperatures just over 46. Unless they are going on average temperature, in which case Kuwait City is just under 47 degrees on average.
Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 88):
Any connection Dan? Some pretty hot places in Egypt, Algeria and Libya.

This might simply be a media mistype. He might have stated "47 {*} runway", and the press took it to mean degrees, as in temperature (hence the celsius). However, it could also have been a different type of degree, as in longitude/latitude. Montreal sits close to 47*N (well, a few off, off, but close enough). Air Canada is based out of Montreal. Zurich is close to 47*N. Seattle more or less sits on 47*N. Perhaps the mysterious customer is Alaska? Budapest is a few degrees off, if this is Malev's plan to get back into business. Chisinau is also close, if Air Moldova is interested (thought they just added E190 to their fleet).

47* South is mostly ocean, except for a bit of Argentina, Chile, and New Zealand.

Wouldn't an order by Alaska surprise everyone?


User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25012 posts, RR: 85
Reply 99, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 27439 times:
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Quoting planemaker (Reply 97):
And in the QR hypothetical, the "order" order would be reversed.

Sorry, I have no idea what that means.

As I understand it Qatar didn't sign until Dubai 2011 but is to be the "first operator."

http://www.airteamimages.com/aviation_news.php?id=37&kv

Orders for up to 5+3 A380s and 50 Airbus narrow bodies plus 30 options from Qatar Airways, to be powered by GE geared fans – which will result in Qatar Airways becoming the first operator of the A319NEO, A320NEO and A321NEO

Republic had "publicly committed" at Paris five months earlier, which gave John Leahy cover for his comments about the C Series.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 100, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 27303 times:

H.Hohmeister, CEO of Swiss, told Bloomberg regarding the original order for 30 CS100, that LX is going to take "at least" 10 CS100, the other 20 will be a mix of CS100 and CS300.
In the future, LX is looking at a stretched version (a CS500) to replace its fleet of A320.

Swiss Airlines CEO Sees Expanded Role for Bombardier CSeries Jet
Quote:
A stretched version of the CSeries could be a suitable replacement for the Airbus A320, Swiss Chief Executive Officer Harry Hohmeister said in an interview in Cape Town. Still, the the Montreal-based manufacturer should first focus on development of the two models now being created, he said.

Regarding the possible stretch, Mike Arcamone told AviationWeek:

Bombardier Sees High Interest In 160-Seat CS300
Quote:
And with interest in larger aircraft growing, Bombardier is “open to customer feedback” with regards to potentially stretching the CSeries further. However, “for the time being” Bombardier wants to focus on getting the CS100 and CS300 through certification and to customers.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinesirtoby From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 369 posts, RR: 22
Reply 101, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 27249 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 100):
Orders for up to 5+3 A380s and 50 Airbus narrow bodies plus 30 options from Qatar Airways, to be powered by GE geared fans

Oops, did I miss something? GE geared fans???

And Qatar did not order the CSeries until today!


User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 102, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 27294 times:

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 101):
Oops, did I miss something? GE geared fans???

And Qatar did not order the CSeries until today!

QR reported several times that is interested in the CSeries...
Last statement from Al Baker was:

Quote:

Qatar has shelved plans to order the CSeries while it is busy preparing to receive four new aircraft types [...] nonetheless he remains interested in eventually ordering 20 to 30 of the larger version of the 110- to 149-seat commercial plane, plus adding as many options. The aircraft would be used for Qatar's regional service and flights of less than 2 1/2 hours from Doha.
[...]
"It is going to be a very fine airplane," he insists, adding that not only is Qatar Airways interested in operating the aircraft in its own fleet, but "we are interested in buying them for our leasing company" as well.
[...]
“We are still interested in the CSeries,” he confirmed. “We will restart negotiations with Bombardier some time hopefully in the next year (2013). We are waiting first for Bombardier to fly the aircraft, as you can see they have already delayed the flight and I am sure they have similar problems that other new aircraft programs face.”



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11616 posts, RR: 60
Reply 103, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 27268 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 88):
Any connection Dan? Some pretty hot places in Egypt, Algeria and Libya.

To my knowledge nowhere beats the Middle East for reference temperatures, but you are right these regions can see similar highs so there could well be a connection.

I think there is good potential for the type in Africa, airlines like Ethiopian, Kenya Airways, Tunisair etc... who have a number of aircraft which will need replacing in the coming years.

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 89):
In the middle east, almost every country has temperatures in the shade above 45 degrees in the summer. I can see runway temperatures easily exceeding 47 under the afternoon sun.

Air temperatures at times yes, but this doesn't equate to the average temperature or reference temperature - hence why it's reasonably cryptic. Obviously to get people thinking. Part of me wonders if it's a play on words too - Kuwait City is 47 degrees East, and the city has an average temperature of 47 degrees. But whichever airport this is, it doesn't mean that is the base of the carrier which will order, so it could be anyone in the region. I can think of half a dozen carriers which it could be in that case.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 104, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 26966 times:

Gulf Air is the unidentified customer who ordered 10 CS100 + 6 options in june 2011. Official PR will be released soon.

User currently offlineBD500 From Canada, joined Feb 2010, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 105, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 26792 times:

Interesting development today, it was announced by Bombardier and Gulf Air that a previous firm order for 10 CS100 aircraft, with options for an additional six aircraft, was placed by Gulf Air, the national carrier of the Kingdom of Bahrain. The firm order was announced by Bombardier on June 20, 2011. The CSeries aircraft was selected following a detailed and thorough evaluation, including other competing aircraft, conducted by Gulf Air in accordance with the Bahrain Tender Board rules.

If I remember well, it is the launch operator for the CS100.

http://bombardier.com/wps/portal/en/...edia-centre?docID=0901260d802c3b07


User currently onlineQuantos From Canada, joined Jan 2013, 142 posts, RR: 0
Reply 106, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 26623 times:

Gulf Air Confirmed by BBD as one of the previous orders:

http://www.montrealgazette.com/busin...ntified+CSeries/8477170/story.html


User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1985 posts, RR: 24
Reply 107, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 26579 times:

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 69):
is
Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 70):
Once it was pretty much decided that twins with engines on wings was the way to go, the aeronautical world became a much less exciting place.

This is aviation's version of Apple's rectangle with rounded corners.


User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 108, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 26143 times:

Ilyushin Finance's shareholders approved the CSeries order and it now became firm:
Russia's Ilyushin Finance Co. Firms Purchase Agreement for up to 42 Bombardier CSeries Aircraft

FTV1 "painting" videos:
Getting Ready for First Flight : Protecting FTV1 Composite Surfaces and Installing Decals
Painting the FTV1 - Interview with Kévin Hébert, Paint Shop Manager

It looks like BBD policy became more "social sharing alike" in the last period.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 109, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 25999 times:

Quote:
FTV1 "painting" videos

This also confirms that FTV1 will not have a full livery during its first flight.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineCXH From Canada, joined Oct 2004, 143 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 25878 times:

Some more tidbits of positive news for the CSeries.

Ilyushin Finance has firmed up their order:
http://www.ctvnews.ca/business/bomba...onditional-cseries-order-1.1310803

Note how the picture in the CTV item is for Bombardier Recreational Products, not BBD.  

Gulf Air is announced as a previous UFO order:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-0...ies-prepares-for-first-flight.html

List of Orders:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Bombardier_CSeries_orders



I've seen the future, I can't afford it. - Martin Fry
User currently offlinetransaeroyyz From Canada, joined Dec 2010, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 111, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 25779 times:

Russian leasing company firms up conditional CSeries order for 42 planes!

http://www.therecord.com/news-story/...irms-up-conditional-cseries-order/


User currently offlineplanemaker From Tuvalu, joined Aug 2003, 6126 posts, RR: 34
Reply 112, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 25488 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 99):
Sorry, I have no idea what that means.

While Frontier ordered the CSeries first and then Airbus, in the QR hypothetical the "order" order would have been reversed... order Airbus first and then CSeries.



Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - A. Einstein
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1871 posts, RR: 4
Reply 113, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 25356 times:

A little birdie told me about new CS300 customer. This one will be a coup. Stay tuned.


STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 114, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 25190 times:

Please give us a hint?  


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinesirtoby From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 369 posts, RR: 22
Reply 115, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 25138 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 113):
Stay tuned.

When exactly should we be tuned?


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1871 posts, RR: 4
Reply 116, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 25145 times:

I'm not sure what is going on with the site today. I posted this earlier in this thread, but for some reason the post never showed up.

Anyway, a good source of mine reported ANOTHER new CSeries customer - purchase negotiations are under way, so for obvious reasons I cannot say who this will be. However, I can say that this order will be a coup.



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently onliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2587 posts, RR: 1
Reply 117, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 24906 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 104):
Gulf Air is the unidentified customer who ordered 10 CS100 + 6 options in june 2011.

Nice to see these confirmations, there were too many Unidentified customers in the order book. Together with the unoficially identified Odyssey, this leaves only one unidentified customer left (5 CS100 + 10 CS300). IIRC the other unidentified customer for 3+3 CS100 cancelled their order earlier this year.

Quoting BD500 (Reply 105):
If I remember well, it is the launch operator for the CS100.

   correct, we now finally know the mysterious first operator!


User currently offlineconnies4ever From Canada, joined Feb 2006, 4066 posts, RR: 13
Reply 118, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 24640 times:

BBD now confirming that Gulf Air is indeed the PAS11 customer who signed for 10+6 CS100. As well, IFC deal for 32+10 CS300 (?) is now a firm deal. So the firm backlog is now 177.

MEA has said they have serious interest, but given the situation in Syria, and possibly spreading to Lebanon itself, any decision is on hold.



Nostalgia isn't what it used to be.
User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1871 posts, RR: 4
Reply 119, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days ago) and read 24078 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 114):
Please give us a hint?

I wish I could, but I cannot - yet. Negotiations with Bombardier are going on now. Patience, young padawan. I'm sure it will be all over the news, in due time, when signed and confirmed.

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 115):
When exactly should we be tuned?

I'm hearing first delivery in 2015, apparently, but not confirmed. Yet.

...and sorry for double posting - hope the forum is fixed now and running smoothly.



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 120, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 23792 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 119):
I wish I could, but I cannot - yet. Negotiations with Bombardier are going on now. Patience, young padawan. I'm sure it will be all over the news, in due time, when signed and confirmed.

Is it Swiss?  



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11616 posts, RR: 60
Reply 121, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 23759 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 100):
H.Hohmeister, CEO of Swiss, told Bloomberg regarding the original order for 30 CS100, that LX is going to take "at least" 10 CS100, the other 20 will be a mix of CS100 and CS300.

What interests me is whether the CS300 will be able to access LCY in time. When the OEW is firmed it will be a chunk higher than the ERJ-190, but its going to have a significantly bigger wing area and more powerful engines. The CS300 is two and a bit meters longer and higher, but nothing the new stands can't handle. Makes me wonder if it could manage 300-500nm missions (FRA, GVA, ZRH, AMS etc...) on the runway length LCY has.

Quoting queb (Reply 104):
Gulf Air is the unidentified customer who ordered 10 CS100 + 6 options in june 2011. Official PR will be released soon.

That does not surprise me at all - they were top of the list I was thinking of in the ME. Glad I was at least thinking in the right region.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 23654 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 119):
I wish I could, but I cannot - yet. Negotiations with Bombardier are going on now. Patience, young padawan. I'm sure it will be all over the news, in due time, when signed and confirmed.

Can you disclose whether the parties are hoping to finish the deal before, and announce at, Bourget, or if it will just be finalized whenever it's finalized?

-The EasyJet rumor thread says something about a possible announcement at Bourget, so I wonder if there's a possible connection.    (Feel free confirm if your secret suitor is not EasyJet)  

-Things are definitely picking up quickly for the Cseries. One can only guess how many more orders we'll find out about @ Bourget and after first flight. BBD could be much closer to their 300 firm goal by end of June. It sure is fun to speculate!


User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1871 posts, RR: 4
Reply 123, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 23536 times:

It is not easyJet and the deal most likely won't be announced at Paris.


STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlinearyonoco From Australia, joined May 2012, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 124, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 23352 times:

Seems to be going well for BBD and C-Series, I wish them all the best.

Is it too far-fetched to think that they might have 400 orders by the end of the year?

Also, I hope they have the resources to launch the CS500 quickly. They have a goldern opportunity now, competing against decades-old B and A narrowbodies with a new design. This opportunity will all but vanish in 7-8 years once B & A start talking about their next generation of narrowbodies, which are sure to be clean slate designs. Hence why I think this is now a golden opportunity for the C-Series and you need a CS500 with 180 seat capacity and 3 variants in total to be able to make a dent in the market.


User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 125, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 23420 times:

If it's a coup, maybe I can go out on a limb and say JL, because if they order the C-series, they wouldn't therefore order the domestically-produced MRJ.....but that's a guess.


One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 126, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 23428 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 125):
If it's a coup, maybe I can go out on a limb and say JL, because if they order the C-series, they wouldn't therefore order the domestically-produced MRJ.....but that's a guess.

It is known that Bombardier is in talks with ANA and JAL, from an article on Bloomberg dated February.
Last month, the Montreal Gazette published an interview with Chet Fuller, Bombardier's salesman in chief, and reported:

Quote:
Ohio-based Fuller, the chief salesman for the CSeries, said his schedule would take him to Tokyo, Bangkok, Dubai, Bahrain, Cape Town and elsewhere — all before the Paris air show in six weeks.
He said sales campaigns are “making good steady progress.”

This was quoted earlier in this thread, so JAL definitely is one of the airlines Bombardier is aiming at. Whether it will become a CSeries customer could be known just to few, right BlueSky1976?

On the other side, just one "undisclosed customer" is now left (I account Odyssey as known already) and is the one which signed a conditional order for 5 CS100 + 10 CS300 at Farnborough last year (PR here).
A little birdie this time told me who that it is  
I expect it to be also revealed at PAS. Hint: it already did business with BBD.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 127, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 23481 times:

too much secrets here!!!  

User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1871 posts, RR: 4
Reply 128, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 23370 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 126):
This was quoted earlier in this thread, so JAL definitely is one of the airlines Bombardier is aiming at. Whether it will become a CSeries customer could be known just to few, right BlueSky1976?

Right.
 



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1985 posts, RR: 24
Reply 129, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 23036 times:

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 125):
If it's a coup, maybe I can go out on a limb and say JL, because if they order the C-series, they wouldn't therefore order the domestically-produced MRJ.....but that's a guess.

Just can't see a Japanese carrier passing up the MRJ....


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11616 posts, RR: 60
Reply 130, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days ago) and read 23027 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 129):
Just can't see a Japanese carrier passing up the MRJ....

I can, size wise it doesn't really compete at all against the C Series. The MRJ-90 has a max pax of 92, the CS100 is 125 - that's a big difference in the world of regional jets.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 131, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 22852 times:
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Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 100):
Bombardier Sees High Interest In 160-Seat CS300
Quote:
And with interest in larger aircraft growing, Bombardier is “open to customer feedback” with regards to potentially stretching the CSeries further. However, “for the time being” Bombardier wants to focus on getting the CS100 and CS300 through certification and to customers.

Long term, I expect high density configurations to be the 'bread and butter" of the C-series.

I'm of mixed emotions on that...

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 113):
A little birdie told me about new CS300 customer. This one will be a coup. Stay tuned.

Tease.  

Could it be FlyDubai? I've heard rumors... (which, of course, mean nothing...)

Quoting connies4ever (Reply 118):
MEA has said they have serious interest, but given the situation in Syria, and possibly spreading to Lebanon itself, any decision is on hold.

Prudent, but a bummer. IMHO a good fit between MEA and the CS300.

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 126):
Ohio-based Fuller, the chief salesman for the CSeries, said his schedule would take him to Tokyo, Bangkok, Dubai, Bahrain, Cape Town and elsewhere — all before the Paris air show in six weeks.
He said sales campaigns are “making good steady progress.”

Flydubai and the LCCs of Bangkok make sense. I have no idea who is being talked to in Capetown and Tokyo. Bahrain? I'll take with a grain of salt.

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 130):
I can, size wise it doesn't really compete at all against the C Series. The MRJ-90 has a max pax of 92, the CS100 is 125 - that's a big difference in the world of regional jets.

I see them complimenting each other due to part commonality in the engines and somewhat in the airframes.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 132, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 22766 times:

I look forward to seeing CS100 above as I live right under the flight path to Bromma Airport. Currently Avros fly here.

User currently offlineYVRLTN From Canada, joined Oct 2006, 2445 posts, RR: 0
Reply 133, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 22444 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 131):
I have no idea who is being talked to in Capetown

Comair / Kulula
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 103):
I think there is good potential for the type in Africa, airlines like Ethiopian, Kenya Airways, Tunisair etc... who have a number of aircraft which will need replacing in the coming years

Yes to all three, KQ have E-jets & 73G's to replace eventually, TU have A319's, 735's & 736's. ET are growing, along with the Asky operation who are both familiar with BBD.

MS also have 735's & E-Jets.

AH have 735's & 736's.

Lots of potential in Africa.

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 126):
A little birdie this time told me who that it is
I expect it to be also revealed at PAS. Hint: it already did business with BBD.

Luxair



Follow me on twitter for YVR movements @vernonYVR
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 134, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 22331 times:
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Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 133):
Comair / Kulula

Thank you.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 133):
TU have A319's, 735's & 736's.

If ever I've seen a fleet that is in the C-series cross hairs...   

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 133):
MS also have 735's & E-Jets.

AH have 735's & 736's.

I've heard rumblings about both in my rumor mill... but take that with a grain of salt...

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 133):
Lots of potential in Africa.

IMHO, where Bombardier will *have* to gain customers before they go mainstream.

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 133):
Luxair

  

Interesting... and keep up good posts like that and you'll be on my RU list!

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 135, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 22010 times:

Quoting YVRLTN (Reply 133):
Luxair

Luxair was/is one of the potential customers, although it is not the undisclosed customer I mentioned.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1985 posts, RR: 24
Reply 136, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 21995 times:

Kinda wish the CSeries flew before the A350. Bombardier could use the publicity. Airbus doesn't need it.

User currently offlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3096 posts, RR: 10
Reply 137, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 21789 times:

Courtesy: Fox Business

Bombardier Takes On Boeing, Airbus With Mid-Size Jets

Bombardier CEO Pierre Beaudoin on the company’s CSeries jets and expansion and hiring.

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/23443...-mid-size-jets/?intcmp=sem_outloud


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 138, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21119 times:
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Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 135):
Luxair was/is one of the potential customers, although it is not the undisclosed customer I mentioned.

Interesting. Quantity?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 21082 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 138):
Interesting. Quantity?

Do You mean quantity of planes possibly ordered by Luxair?
Well, Luxair could place an order for 5 CS300, if they intend to substitute their B737, although I don't see them ordering in the imminent future (those 737s are still young for replacement).

If You intend quantity of planes ordered by the undisclosed customer I mentioned that is 5 CS100 plus 10 CS300, it is the conditional order placed in July 2012.

Talking about the testing program, interesting interview to Mr. Arcamone here:
http://watch.bnn.ca/#clip942627

FTV1 is now in the hands of the test pilots, they are reviewing the documentation and getting ready for vibration tests, slow and high speed taxiing and then first flight.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 140, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 20724 times:
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Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 139):
Do You mean quantity of planes possibly ordered by Luxair?
Well, Luxair could place an order for 5 CS300, if they intend to substitute their B737, although I don't see them ordering in the imminent future (those 737s are still young for replacement).

If You intend quantity of planes ordered by the undisclosed customer I mentioned that is 5 CS100 plus 10 CS300, it is the conditional order placed in July 2012.

I'm glad I was ambiguous and received both answers! I hope Bombardier receives both orders.

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 139):
FTV1 is now in the hands of the test pilots, they are reviewing the documentation and getting ready for vibration tests, slow and high speed taxiing and then first flight.

Have fuel dock tests been completed?

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinecolumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7058 posts, RR: 4
Reply 141, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 20636 times:

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 100):

H.Hohmeister, CEO of Swiss, told Bloomberg regarding the original order for 30 CS100, that LX is going to take "at least" 10 CS100, the other 20 will be a mix of CS100 and CS300.
In the future, LX is looking at a stretched version (a CS500) to replace its fleet of A320.

They would still an A321 sized aircraft doubt that the CSeries could be stretched that long.....although we are talking Bombardier here  



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 142, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 20624 times:
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Quoting columba (Reply 141):
They would still an A321 sized aircraft doubt that the CSeries could be stretched that long.....although we are talking Bombardier here

Someone please photoshop an A321 length C-sereies....

Now the serious question, I haven't done the math, but how much could the C-series be stretched with the current wing and still maintain decent short field performance with 15% more thrust?

IMHO, the stretch will come with a significant, say 2m, wingspan extension. But that is far in the future.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinePHX787 From Japan, joined Mar 2012, 7233 posts, RR: 17
Reply 143, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 20412 times:

Quoting YTZ (Reply 129):
Just can't see a Japanese carrier passing up the MRJ....
Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 130):
I can, size wise it doesn't really compete at all against the C Series. The MRJ-90 has a max pax of 92, the CS100 is 125 - that's a big difference in the world of regional jets.

I kinda can. In Japan, it's about how many you can jam into one metal tube. NH already has firm orders on the MRJ (they were part of the design process, JL was not.)



One of the FB admins for PHX Spotters. "Zach the Expat!"
User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11616 posts, RR: 60
Reply 144, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 20395 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 142):
IMHO, the stretch will come with a significant, say 2m, wingspan extension. But that is far in the future.

I would doubt that, there would probably be some reinforcing, but that would take it into Code D territory, which is not somewhere they want to go. But, by comparison, the wingspan is already greater than the A320CEO - although I'm not sure if that includes variants with sharklets.

Wingspan:

A320 family: 34.4m
C Series: 35.1m
B737NG family: 35.7
B737MAX family: 35.9

An aircraft is considered Code C if it has a wingspan up to but not including 36m, hence the cluster of designs at that limit.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 145, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 20308 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 140):
Have fuel dock tests been completed?

According to the interview in my previous reply, yes.



Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinePaolo92 From Italy, joined Oct 2007, 260 posts, RR: 0
Reply 146, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 20278 times:

Quoting columba (Reply 141):
They would still an A321 sized aircraft doubt that the CSeries could be stretched that long.....although we are talking Bombardier here  
Quoting lightsaber (Reply 142):
Someone please photoshop an A321 length C-sereies....

Someone asked http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/4286/cseriesfamily.png

On the serious side, I think that a 160-seat (standard config) CS500 would be possible with the same wing and a higher thrust engine, providing little penalty over the existing CS300.
When getting bigger (than CS500) the runway performance would be too penalized, I think.

[Edited 2013-06-09 05:56:00]


Each evening, stars come out their daylight hiding places... But one of those, will be my wingtip, passing over...
User currently offlinequeb From Canada, joined May 2010, 655 posts, RR: 3
Reply 147, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 20062 times:

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 144):
Wingspan:

A320 family: 34.4m

35.8m with sharklets


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11616 posts, RR: 60
Reply 148, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 19949 times:

Quoting queb (Reply 147):
35.8m with sharklets

Thank you, I figured it would have to be more.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 149, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 19829 times:

BBD increased the wing area for the CRJ-1000 by increasing the chord of the -900 wing, and keeping the same span. If, (and I really think when), they offer the CS-500, they'll increase the wing chord a bit and use the NEO engines.


What the...?
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 150, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 19533 times:
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Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 144):
An aircraft is considered Code C if it has a wingspan up to but not including 36m, hence the cluster of designs at that limit.

Good point that I overlooked. That implies the wingspan will be unchanged as it isn't worth doing a fraction of a meter wingspan extension.

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 145):
According to the interview in my previous reply, yes.

Thank you for detailing.

Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 146):
Someone asked
Quoting Paolo92 (Reply 146):
When getting bigger (than CS500) the runway performance would be too penalized, I think.

You make a good point. So we're looking at a 3 to 4 row extansion (in Y).

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 149):
they offer the CS-500, they'll increase the wing chord a bit and use the NEO engines.

The NEO engine adds *far* too much weight and would introduce a cruise TSFC penalty as the engine would be operating too low in its thrust band. I would expect instead a growth of the C-series engine with:
1. a small (say 1") fan diameter increase with the same external nacelle dimensions.
2. Adding back in the fan variable nozzle. This would give a little (about 2%) more takeoff thrust and a little better cruise TSFC (a little better than 2% improvement).

Yes, that would be quite a bit of nacelle change... but far cheaper than many other alternatives.

They will probably increase the chord since the wingspan was closer to the limit than I realized...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 151, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19351 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 150):

I didn't think the NEO engine would be significantly heavier than the CSeries...and the 319/320 NEO would require about the same thrust range as a potential CS500.



What the...?
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2129 posts, RR: 1
Reply 152, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 19528 times:

Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 151):
I didn't think the NEO engine would be significantly heavier than the CSeries...and the 319/320 NEO would require about the same thrust range as a potential CS500.

The NEO engine is 9" larger than the one on the C series though. Will it fit?


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 153, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 19486 times:
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Quoting JoeCanuck (Reply 151):
I didn't think the NEO engine would be significantly heavier than the CSeries...and the 319/320 NEO would require about the same thrust range as a potential CS500.

The NEO has a larger core with a higher pressure ratio and a larger diameter fan (81in) in an engine designed to provide 35k of thrust. (33k certified, but the A321 will need more later on).

The C-series has a 73in fan with a design thrust of 23.3k (growth to at least 26k, per rumors I've heard).

Or fan area of the A321 is 23% greater and since the bypass ratio is the same, the cores scale similarly. Thus the NEO engine will be significantly lighter.

Now you are right that the CS500 will require similar thrust to the A320 (27k for that airframe but only about 26k needed for the CS500 at most).

One would expect a 23k thrust engine (growth to 26k by my estimate) to weight quite a bit less than a 33k thrust engine (growth to 35k per my rumor mill). In fact, about 25% less... Yes, several thousand pounds weight per engine/nacelle pair.

The A321NEO is driving the PW1100 design. It has on the GTF since the late 1990s. Which is one reason I am just not a fan of the A319NEO (very underloaded engine in all flight regimes).

The NEO is gaining weight over the pre-NEO.
Dry weight of CFM-56-5 (33k thrust) is 5,250lbm or 160lbm per k of thrust.
Dry weight of a CF-34-10 (20k thrust) is 3,700 lbm or 185lbm per k of thrust.

I expect the PW1100G to out weight the PW1500G by about 1,000lbm per engine plus about 250lbm per nacelle plus wing structure on the order of 300lbm. So you are talking about adding a ton and a half (or more) of weight to the C-series to switch the engines. There is enough thrust growth in the PW1500G for the CS500, so why put on the weight of an engine designed for 34% more thrust than the C-series would ever require?

But the CS500 will still have a weight advantage. e.g., the CS300 should be at an OEW of 78k lbm or so (anyone have a more exact number?). The current A319 is 90k lbm and that will grow by about 1.5k lbm with the NEO. The CS500 should have a similar advantage over the A320, and thus we should see a 5% or so lower thrust requirement.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10878 posts, RR: 32
Reply 154, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 19128 times:

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BMZqnLrCcAAu9eK.jpg:large


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineYTZ From Canada, joined Jun 2009, 1985 posts, RR: 24
Reply 155, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 hours ago) and read 19059 times:

I could see a lot of airlines upgauging to the CS500 simply because it'll closer in operating costs to the 319/73G. In essence, a free upsize. This is why the CS500 is crucial to the program's success in my most humble opinion.

User currently offlineBlueSky1976 From Poland, joined Jul 2004, 1871 posts, RR: 4
Reply 156, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18973 times:

I have one question with regards to the hypothetical CS500.

Bombardier is offering two variants of CS300 - the standard one and heavier CS300ER with US transcontinental range. Therefore, would it not be possible to offer CS500 with similar weights to ones of CS300ER? While the frame would incur some range penalty, it would save Bombardier some additional work (similar to what Boeing is doing with 787-10X with respect to the -9).



STOP TERRORRUSSIA!!!
User currently offlinesirtoby From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 369 posts, RR: 22
Reply 157, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18973 times:

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 156):
Therefore, would it not be possible to offer CS500 with similar weights to ones of CS300ER?

Per my calculations, a CS500 with the same MTOW as the 2950nm CS300 would be a very good 2000nm range aircraft.


User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 158, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18977 times:
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One typo in prior post, the NEO engine is heavier than the C-series.

Quoting BlueSky1976 (Reply 156):
Therefore, would it not be possible to offer CS500 with similar weights to ones of CS300ER?

Yes. But to sell, they will need to offer 2950nm+ range. But when doing the structural changes to stretch to the hypothetical CS500, Bombardier would do the MTOW increase as well. Without that range, the plane would sell poorly. This isn't the 78J where chopping off 1,500nm of range is ok.



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinesirtoby From Germany, joined Nov 2007, 369 posts, RR: 22
Reply 159, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18902 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 158):
But to sell, they will need to offer 2950nm+ range.

LH would love to have such an aircraft. They do not need 3000nm range, as the extra 1000nm are coming with a lot of excessive weight.


User currently offlinePlymSpotter From Spain, joined Jun 2004, 11616 posts, RR: 60
Reply 160, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 18902 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 150):
Good point that I overlooked. That implies the wingspan will be unchanged as it isn't worth doing a fraction of a meter wingspan extension.

I can see a second wing (same span) set up for a double stretch, much the same as the E-Jets. So the CS100/300 and speculative 500/700 would each share a wing.

Quoting YTZ (Reply 155):
I could see a lot of airlines upgauging to the CS500 simply because it'll closer in operating costs to the 319/73G. In essence, a free upsize. This is why the CS500 is crucial to the program's success in my most humble opinion.

Bombardier are good at stretches - just look at the CRJ-1000. I can easily see a 500 and 700 appearing over the next 5-10 years

Quoting sirtoby (Reply 159):
LH would love to have such an aircraft. They do not need 3000nm range, as the extra 1000nm are coming with a lot of excessive weight.

Many airlines can cope without a 3,000nm range.


Dan  



...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
User currently offlinepnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2228 posts, RR: 12
Reply 161, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 18778 times:

And frankly while some carriers want the extra range, just as many don't need it and are paying for the extra weight necessary. For example the recent LH comment regarding that too many aircraft are being developed for the narrow scope needed by Gulf Carriers and hence the aircraft are overbuilt for medium range high capacity flights. In other words the ultra long range capabilities are only suited for a very small percentage of overall flights. I think it will be interesting to see how the approach the C Series is taking works out, and what versions come next. A higher capacity but shorter range, vs. cross continental US/CAN and smaller capacity and longer range. The orders will tell.

User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 162, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 18760 times:
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Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 160):
Many airlines can cope without a 3,000nm range.

But enough demand the range that it has an impact on resale value. Obviously less range works, otherwise there would be no CRJ or E-jet sales. While the CS500 will have less range than the 738/A320 the two thresholds are 2200/2400nm and 2950nm. Ok, there are also 3400nm, and 3900nm thresholds, but the C-series will not break those with the CS500.

The range thresholds and markets
1500nm/1800nm European hubs (1800nm is preferred but not a show stoppper)
2200nm /2400nm Asian hubs/some US hubs (e.g., DTW-Florida)/US inland hubs more ideal range
2950nm/3100nm US TCON, 3100nm needed for cargo.
3400nm mid-East to Europe and US West Coast to Hawaii. Better US TCON cargo too. Some demand in Asia.
3900nm Near-TATL. More is better.   4500nm is the goal for narrowbodies.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinesweair From Sweden, joined Nov 2011, 1812 posts, RR: 0
Reply 163, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 18613 times:

If you could put the 752 UC on a A321 that would be a good start on the way up to 4500nm, 40K GTFs would be needed as well and some more lift, bigger wing. The 757 sits way off the ground  

There has not been engines made in the 40K thrust class since the 1980´s however.


User currently offlinePW100 From Netherlands, joined Jan 2002, 2374 posts, RR: 11
Reply 164, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 18387 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 153):
The A321NEO is driving the PW1100 design. It has on the GTF since the late 1990s. Which is one reason I am just not a fan of the A319NEO (very underloaded engine in all flight regimes

The positive is off-course, almost infinite on-wing life!
Seriously, if used for long stretches, say 3- 6 hrs, the A319NEO should be able to do 30000 hrs on its Hot Section before shop visit! Almost like throw-away engine; just run until the LCF cycles out and install a new one!

BTW, what is the initial LCF life on the NEO?


PW100



Immigration officer: "What's the purpose of your visit to the USA?" Spotter: "Shooting airliners with my Canon!"
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 165, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 18063 times:
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Quoting PW100 (Reply 164):
Seriously, if used for long stretches, say 3- 6 hrs, the A319NEO should be able to do 30000 hrs on its Hot Section before shop visit! Almost like throw-away engine; just run until the LCF cycles out and install a new one!

100% agree. Pratt was working on that. However, total cost of ownership is higher paying for fuel, but the A319NEO will have *incredible* on wing time for the engines.

You are also onto that it might be close to being cheaper to just run the engine to cycle fatigue and replace it, but likely the engine will be rebuilt.

Oh, I think the NEO will beat your hours on wing.    At least on the A319...

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 166, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 17899 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 158):
Yes. But to sell, they will need to offer 2950nm+ range. But when doing the structural changes to stretch to the hypothetical CS500, Bombardier would do the MTOW increase as well. Without that range, the plane would sell poorly. This isn't the 78J where chopping off 1,500nm of range is ok.

You know much more about this than I do, so I'm asking these questions more for my own personal enlightenment than anything...
-First, didn't the MD-80 find plenty of suitors - even in the U.S. - despite (IIRC) having range of only 2000-2500nm? (I bring up the MD-80 b/c I'd think its impending retirement could provide plenty of replacement routes for the -500.)
-Second question, if BBD does a stretched -500 without increasing MTOW, how much range would be sacrificed...would it really cost them 1,500nm? That seems like a lot to me..pardon my lack of technical knowledge   

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 160):
I can see a second wing (same span) set up for a double stretch, much the same as the E-Jets. So the CS100/300 and speculative 500/700 would each share a wing.

IMO, a second wing would only be a good idea if BBD is definitely going to do a -700, or if the wing is necessary to give the -500 extra range that BBD feels the market requires. As stated above, I question whether the -500 actually needs 2500nmi+ range to appease a few potential customers when I'd think a vast majority of customers would not need that extra range, preferring a lower structural weight instead. Also, I question whether a -700 stretch would be a viable business case at all. When you get that big, wouldn't you be competing directly with the 73G/320? I don't think that's a battle that BBD would win nearly enough (if at all) to justify the costs of producing that variant, much less the added weight the -500 would have to take on as a compromise of sharing a larger wing.


User currently offlineJoeCanuck From Canada, joined Dec 2005, 5410 posts, RR: 30
Reply 167, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 17875 times:

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 166):

They wouldn't need an all new wing. As stated, the current wing already has about the maximum practical span...so some increase of area would be all that's required.

BBD; did it with the CRJ-1000 wing and Airbus is doing it for the 350-1000 wing.



What the...?
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 12904 posts, RR: 100
Reply 168, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 17599 times:
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Quoting davs5032 (Reply 166):
-First, didn't the MD-80 find plenty of suitors - even in the U.S. - despite (IIRC) having range of only 2000-2500nm?

Agreed. But that limits the resale and lease companies determine quite a bit of what is purchased. Could 2300nm or so range work? Obviously yes or there wouldn't be an E-jets. But you are talking about a plane that can only do 80% of the routes so it wouldn't be competing with *any* airline that was bidding TCON length missions.

In general, airlines have 'rationalized' their fleets quite a bit since the days when they would have an MD-80 for short and mid-hops and a 757 for longer missions. That is one of the reasons the MD-90 floundered. The siren's lure of 'one more route' leaves out too many customers for Bombardier IMHO.

Since 2950nm would be possible with the CS500 (probably with a wing area increase), I would suspect Bombardier will wait to stretch until then. A stretch is going to be a significant structural change anyway... best to bite off a bigger piece and go for the range.

Quoting davs5032 (Reply 166):
Second question, if BBD does a stretched -500 without increasing MTOW, how much range would be sacrificed...would it really cost them 1,500nm? That seems like a lot to me..pardon my lack of technical knowledge

No. That would be an exaggeration. Without an MTOW increase, we would see a drop in range to about 1900 to 2100nm. (Very stretch dependent).

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinedavs5032 From United States of America, joined Sep 2010, 388 posts, RR: 0
Reply 169, posted (1 year 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 17355 times:

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 168):
Agreed. But that limits the resale and lease companies determine quite a bit of what is purchased. Could 2300nm or so range work? Obviously yes or there wouldn't be an E-jets. But you are talking about a plane that can only do 80% of the routes so it wouldn't be competing with *any* airline that was bidding TCON length missions.

In general, airlines have 'rationalized' their fleets quite a bit since the days when they would have an MD-80 for short and mid-hops and a 757 for longer missions. That is one of the reasons the MD-90 floundered. The siren's lure of 'one more route' leaves out too many customers for Bombardier IMHO.

Since 2950nm would be possible with the CS500 (probably with a wing area increase), I would suspect Bombardier will wait to stretch until then. A stretch is going to be a significant structural change anyway... best to bite off a bigger piece and go for the range.

-Interesting...good points, agree with your comment about a ~2000-2300nm max range plane being somewhat limited in routes. However, you could also make the argument, when looking at things from a purely geographic standpoint, that such limitations wouldn't exist or be a big issue in many markets. For example, I'd view the North American market as one of the primary locations where more range would be sought by customers, mostly for TCON capability. However, airlines constituting a decent portion of the narrow body market there are already "spoken for," in the sense that they're loyal to A or B narrow body (and value fleet commonality with those variants), or because they've already ordered their future fleets. (See WN=737; AS=737; B6=A320; AA/USair already ordered full A&B narrow body fleet).

-The European market, on the other hand, seems to be much more "up for grabs," and I believe that given the overwhelming majority of narrowbody routes in the EU are less than 2000nm, BBD could have more to gain by meeting the weight demands of these customers, than the range demands of North American customers in particular.

-You'd have to do the same analysis for Asia, Mid-eastern, etc markets (who knows, these markets may kill my argument) but I still get the feeling that favoring weight over range (so long as range is kept over ~2000nm) will result in the more legitimate and realistic world-wide order potential into the future. I might be proven wrong in the long run, but I think it's a very interesting decision with plenty of factors BBD will have to consider.