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Turkish Airlines Restricts FA LipStick Colours  
User currently offlineDIJKKIJK From France, joined Jul 2003, 1791 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 6042 times:

TK will not allow its flight attendants to wear bright coloured( red or pink) lipstick. This is causing a storm in Turkey where Islamization is on the rise, and a Conservative Government is bending backwards to please the Islamists.

Link only in French , Sorry.

http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-...-voyants-polemique-en-turquie.html


How sad! I'm sure the average Turkish woman is dead against this.


Never argue with idiots. They will bring you down to their level, and beat you with experience.
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 5960 times:

What would it matter if they were against this? That's the price of living in an extreme religious country (area). Common sense is thrown out to the sea and women's rights take a leap in as well. It's kinda funny how men in that part of the world are so "intimidated" by women that they need to control them and how they look. Sad.

User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12508 posts, RR: 46
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5785 times:
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So they CAN still wear lipstick, just not bright red or pink? Doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me - I'm sure TK (and other airlines) would not allow an FA to have bright green hair either. The airline has the right to have its crew project the image it wants, not the image the crew wants.

I don't see it's a big deal and certainly not pandering to Islamisation.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinejagflyer From Canada, joined Aug 2004, 3517 posts, RR: 4
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5730 times:

Red lipstick is pretty standard and hardly a "vibrant colour" in terms of make-up for a lady.


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User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5729 times:

Uhh..what color are lipsticks normally? Blue?

User currently offlineleftyboarder From Turkey, joined Apr 2008, 693 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5654 times:

I also do not agree with TK management's decision, as red (not perhaps a fiery red but plain red) lipstick should be OK. However, for the sake of accuracy, the title of the thread should be changed. Lipsticks still allowed (in fact enforced) at TK - FAs are supposed to wear lipstick, blush and eye shadow. Eyeliner also allowed. Here's a source quoting TK make-up policy (sorry in Turkish only): http://www.airporthaber.com/havacili...e-tek-yasak-kirmizi-ruj-degil.html

User currently offlineQuokkas From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 5621 times:

Quoting toobz (Reply 4):
Uhh..what color are lipsticks normally? Blue?

Only if worn by cabin crew on Finnair, maybe.

But yes, you can buy blue lipstick, and black, purple, silver, gold and green. The linked article states that natural looking lipsticks are acceptable.

As to red, there are dozens of shades of red and it would appear that Turkish does not regard the bright, shocking reds and pinks as appropriate.

But Turkish is not alone in deciding what is and what isn't appropriate wear in a service industry. For example, Finnair states on its web site aimed at would be job applicants that they do not permit visible tattoos, dental jewellery or piercing. As none of the above prevent crew from performing the actual job, why are they regarded as acceptable demands while a limitation on lip stick colours isn't?

Personally I think that unless what a person wears is a safety risk it shouldn't make a difference but it is accepted that airlines in the West apply dress codes, so why do we insist that Turkish Airlines doing the same is wrong?


User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5560 times:

Lol would live to see AY crew wearing blue ha. I find this very bizarre. Who is to say what is too bright? Sounds like a lot of personal interpreting to me. I get the super bright colors. You don't want your cabin crew walking around like Times Square whores. I get that. But I still think bright red is rather vague.

User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12508 posts, RR: 46
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 5479 times:
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Quoting toobz (Reply 7):
Who is to say what is too bright? Sounds like a lot of personal interpreting to me.

In this case, TK themselves.

Many employers reserve the right to apply some control over how their employees dress. At work I'm expected to dress in "business casual". If I turned up in flip-flops, shorts and a t-shirt, I'd be sent home. I've had to speak to female employees who's dress, especially in summer, is more suited to the beach than an office. We're not Google or Apple and neither is TK.

In my view, TK has every right to control the image its FAs project. If they don't want their FAs wearing bright red lippy I really don't see it as a big issue and certainly not a religious one.

If you want to be an FA and wear bright red lippy, go work for VS.   



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13033 posts, RR: 100
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 5289 times:
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Is this uniform standardization or for religious reasons? IMHO, this is more the former. As Quokkas noted, this is service industry enforcing a look.   

FWIW, I prefer my women without lipstick, but I'm not setting the dress code.  
Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
So they CAN still wear lipstick, just not bright red or pink? Doesn't seem entirely unreasonable to me

Exactly.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 2):
I'm sure TK (and other airlines) would not allow an FA to have bright green hair either.

Eh, is that prohibited at Spirit?   

Quoting scbriml (Reply 8):
At work I'm expected to dress in "business casual".

My new employer's business casual is far more casual than my last workplace... each site sets their own rules. For example, collared shirts were required for business casual at my last employer (no tee shirts). Here, every Friday everyone is wearing Tee shirts... (Almost everyone... I'll wear a Hawaiian shirt, I'm just not ready to go down to a Tee shirt...) So all I see is this setting a color code.

Quoting scbriml (Reply 8):
If you want to be an FA and wear bright red lippy, go work for VS.

With F-me boots.  

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlinetoobz From Finland, joined Jan 2010, 781 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5109 times:

Scbri..I get that. But it's not the same thing as having biz casual environment and comin to work in flip flops. It's the same as saying u need to wear biz casual but NOT bright red or pink shirts. But only for males. Kinda ridic eh? Would that happen in your office? But I get this isn't taking place in the US but in a country where I guess it's feasible and accepted that not everybody is equal.

User currently onlineB777LRF From Luxembourg, joined Nov 2008, 1334 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5051 times:

Dude, lighten up. This restriction is nothing compared to what other airlines, hailing from completely secular societies, have foisted onto their front line employees when it comes to personal appearance, in same cases all the way down to the exact brand, model and colour of lipstick and nail polish. Ever heard of the VPL check? Well, it's still done to this day.

It's all about conveying the appearance management of the company is intent on broadcasting, and in this case it would seem the TK grooming wallah's have decided they don't wish for their biscuit chucking ladies to come across as cheap tarts. Plenty of other airlines that'll happily endorse strutting stuff like the best them, Virgin to name but one, but TK will not. They are, just like most other airlines, a tad conservative.

Claiming this was done because of political influence brought upon by religiously conservatives, is an allegation that requires more than just your opinion in order to have a leg to stand on. My guess is it's plain and simple application of common sense, and maybe certain elements within TK cabin staff needed to have the rules spelled out and rammed down their throats.



From receips and radials over straight pipes to big fans - been there, done that, got the hearing defects to prove
User currently offlinelightsaber From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 13033 posts, RR: 100
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5016 times:
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Quoting toobz (Reply 10):
It's the same as saying u need to wear biz casual but NOT bright red or pink shirts. But only for males. Kinda ridic eh? Would that happen in your office?

I'd have a lot of red Hawaiian shirts left in my closet...  

But that is business attire. My entire industry used to be one color of shirt per pay grade!
Technicians: Dark Blue shirts
Engineers: White shirt (no stripes allowed) with black tie (on Fridays you could wear a collage tie)
Managers: White shirt (w/ or without stripe)or light blue shirts with any 'classy tie'

Then Verner Von Brown was brought to the USA and imposed casual Friday.   

But there are Male/Female differences:

Monday through Thursday we must wear 'business shoes' which for men mean black or brown and men must wear a collared shirt or a sweater. Woman can wear about anything (dress, collared shirt) other than tennis shoes and tee shirts. So we already have that differentiation in 'advanced economies.'

The issue is ambiguous dress codes. I do not see an issue with TK's choice of lipstick colors.

Lightsaber



Societies that achieve a critical mass of ideas achieve self sustaining growth; others stagnate.
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25196 posts, RR: 48
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 5009 times:

Why does the OPer seek to stir up some political or religious debate here?

This is a basic uniform and grooming standard.

The same way companies can tell folks what color pantyhose they must to use, or how much jewelry they can have in uniform, appropriate nail polish colors, or how their hair needs to be held up.

No story here. Move on.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1396 posts, RR: 2
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4924 times:

This story has nothing to do with religion or politics.


I guess they should look and complain at Air Tahiti Nui as well.

TN has clear restrictions on make up tones, how the hair must be worn(short or up), restrictions on nail polish etc.


I think in America at the happiest place on earth - Disneyland also have incredibly strict uniform standards. I recall reading in paper a few years ago that staff have to be groomed and appear exactly or face suspension.


TK can create standards it desires. This is very basic concept in service industry.


User currently onlinescbriml From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2003, 12508 posts, RR: 46
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4776 times:
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Quoting toobz (Reply 10):
It's the same as saying u need to wear biz casual but NOT bright red or pink shirts.

But my office is not customer-facing and we don't wear uniforms. FAs at TK (and just about every other airline) are and do. The airline is simply setting the standard for what is and isn't acceptable for their FAs to wear while on duty. It's not unreasonable and I can't see it's got anything to do with politics or religion.



Time flies like an arrow, but fruit flies like a banana!
User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6617 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4761 times:

The source articles are only in French and Turkish, but the subject is a real polemic in Turkey, not something the OP is making up.

The fact that such policies are common and thus the polemic a little futile is only highlighting the "fight" going on in the country between a strong secular part of the population and another strong part who wants more religion in everything. Everything gets interpreted.



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User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26954 posts, RR: 58
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 4741 times:

This issue has more to do with internal Turkish politics. Turkeys main opposition party CHP made a huge fuss about anything considered pro Islamic. TK seems to be held up by politics in certain areas which is a shame. Its an airline not a game. The airline to should be allowed to be free from these kinds of issues.

User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20562 posts, RR: 62
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 4724 times:

What's TK's policy on pearl necklaces for their female staff? Or do they only control lipstick colors which might clash with the uniform (if that's the reason, I don't read French).


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinequiet1 From Thailand, joined Apr 2010, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4298 times:

I wonder if this is a reaction to a crew member who wore a shockingly bright shade of red that even non-Islamics would agree is inappropriate for cabin crew? All too often a knee-jerk reaction to the 5% who ruin it for the 95% is an exaggerated micro-managing policy change.

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25205 posts, RR: 22
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 3850 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 13):
Why does the OPer seek to stir up some political or religious debate here?

The OPer isn't doing that. He/she is only quoting the points made in the linked news story.


User currently offlineKaiarahi From Canada, joined Jul 2009, 2991 posts, RR: 28
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 3595 times:

Quoting toobz (Reply 1):
That's the price of living in an extreme religious country

Please explain (with facts, not ethnic stereotypes) how Turkey is extreme.

[Edited 2013-05-04 04:22:30]


Empty vessels make the most noise.
User currently offlineindcwby From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 135 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3546 times:

Sadly, I wonder if an airlines bending backwards to those who are hardcore Islamists, wanting their way or no way, will be a slow death to an airline? Wasn't it on a SV or PK flight, that a man who was a strict Muslim forced a plane to divert because he was screaming at the cabin crew because they were all women?

User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3173 times:

Bright red lispstick looks really cheap, they should decide on a few darker red shades and use them officially.

Quoting indcwby (Reply 22):
Sadly, I wonder if an airlines bending backwards to those who are hardcore Islamists,

Some Egypt Air crew now wear Hijab, after they protested to be allowed to do so.

Quoting indcwby (Reply 22):
Wasn't it on a SV or PK flight, that a man who was a strict Muslim forced a plane to divert because he was screaming at the cabin crew because they were all women?

that incident was onl Saudia, and it was for women without male companions no other reason, their crew wear makeup by the way.


User currently offlinesmi0006 From Australia, joined Jan 2008, 1531 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

Qantas and Virgin Atlantic both limit the colours of lipstick their uniformed staff can wear... One requires natural colours, the other, requires bright red.

I see nothing wrong with tight uniform and presentation guidelines, that how branding is created. So long as there are no discriminatory policies (regarding age weight, religious garments etc), and the guidelines are equally tough for Men as they are for woman then I feel it contributes to a higher level of professionalism.

Does anyone have access to the entire TK grooming and presentation guidelines?


25 TK787 : This is what I came across today on kokpit.aero, a Turkish aviaition website, from UGUR CEBECI's article. (all in Turkish) I used Google Translate an
26 JQflightie : we at QF have a 70-odd paged guide on how our uniform has to look, right down to make up worn for the girls and jewelry worn... i think its a common p
27 Tupolev160 : I fully support the move and no, you would be surprised that most of Turkish women actually never use provocative lipstick. I know the "seculars" are
28 Post contains links TK787 : Let's see what happens next week; "90% of TK employees may strike come May 15th" (this includes ground crews, cabin crews, pilots....) http://www.hur
29 DocLightning : IIRC, SQ actually has a team of cosmetologists who individualize the lipstick tone to the F/A's skin color. The F/A is required to wear that color of
30 Post contains links TK787 : Hmmm, this is different. In today's news , TK's CEO T.Kotil says that there is no limitations on lipstick color at TK, this must have been done by som
31 Turkish350XWB : Does this make the situation better that such important things can happen in such a big company? This changes the ciriticism from islamistic to incap
32 Post contains images Viscount724 : [/quote] Reminds me of Canadian carrier Wardair that had a dispute with their male flight attendants sometime in the 1970s or 80s over whether they co
33 777way : Also looks like a U-turn after criticism, the junior made the right decision, bright colours look cheap and unprofessional bet it in a secular enviro
34 Aesma : I'd say it's neither, but rather that CEO went the PC way. In practice someone at a lower level made a minor change to the grooming standard to make
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