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El Al Shut Out From Alliances  
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24814 posts, RR: 46
Posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 13573 times:

The recent El Al strike helped highlight the carriers difficulty competing in a market place dominated by airline alliances that help drive customer loyalty and revenues.

Carrier says “EL AL has been trying to become a member, but for obvious political reasons, has not been accepted. The fact that we are not able to join an alliance severely restricts our global operations and destinations served.”

Seems the alliances in deference not to offend its current or future Arab members have steered clear of El Al, while also as an analyst points out Israel being a destination market is very well served by alliance flights already.
With the fact that as a destination market, El Al also has never built a network focused on connectivity further reduces the attractiveness of the carrier for alliances which in their race continue to look to build and maximize global connection points.

Story:
http://skift.com/2013/05/01/the-reas...al-airlines-alliance-anytime-soon/

=


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
39 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineraffik From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2006, 1716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 13356 times:

Interesting article. I noted the author tied in many possible political reasons why EL AL couldn't join, plus the conflicts between them and other Arab members.

However, I do wonder how much of this is actually down to the lack of connections and value that the airline could bring to an alliance. The TLV market is already massively served- look at how many New York- Tel Aviv services there are in place. People don't necessarily need to transit through Europe to reach Israel, so the synergy of a codeshare is less beneficial than the US-Lebanon market (for example) which relies on cooperation and alliances with different airlines through different airports to get the people into the country.

Who knows what the future will hold for the airline but I would say that they will be around for a long time yet!



Happy -go- lucky kinda guy!
User currently offlinePolot From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 2122 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12629 times:

I guess that they gave up on or forgot about their attempt to create their own alliance.

User currently offlinesteex From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 1607 posts, RR: 9
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12479 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Thread starter):
Seems the alliances in deference not to offend its current or future Arab members have steered clear of El Al, while also as an analyst points out Israel being a destination market is very well served by alliance flights already.
With the fact that as a destination market, El Al also has never built a network focused on connectivity further reduces the attractiveness of the carrier for alliances which in their race continue to look to build and maximize global connection points.

These are valid points, but it's not as though El Al has just chosen not to develop connections due to a lack of vision - El Al has very little ability to build a network that focuses on connectivity given the political issues at hand. They have a huge disadvantage for flights to/from the east due to the necessary detours, and that is the primary direction they would want to provide connectivity to Europeans (similar to the other ME carriers). They also can't provide connectivity within their geographic region since most of those countries are entirely off limits. The only place they can really fly openly is Europe, and the location is obviously terrible to serve Europe-to-Europe flows.

In the scope of alliances, airlines are generally supposed to serve as the source of connectivity within their regions. Focusing on the connectivity that they would be able to provide, which would primarily be via longer flights, would still provide little value to alliances. Given the necessary detours, many places in Asia start to become marginally closer to Tel Aviv compared to Europe, and it makes sense for European carriers to serve the routes on their own. So while political deference to Arab members may play some role, I suspect the larger problem is that political issues make it impossible for El Al to build a network that brings value to an alliance.


User currently onlineBMI727 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 15715 posts, RR: 26
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12433 times:

It's unfortunate that political sensitivities are hampering El Al's ability to do business, but the alliances aren't wrong. If the choice is take El Al or take one of the major Gulf carriers as a partner, you'd take the Arab airline seven days a week and twice on Saturday.


Why do Aerospace Engineering students have to turn things in on time?
User currently offlinereifel From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 1327 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12251 times:

Indeed. The only connecting flights they offer are from Europe to Asia, and the detour is quite big. Plus you need to be lucky that a schedule fits, the prices are average to high compared to especially Gulf Carrier, and flying with El Al alone and all security stuff included will put most connecting travellers off. That said, there is a connecting flights security check point in TLV, however not even a transfer counter airside.... No, this is defninitely not an airline which builds their network to offer convenient connections. Sometimes when you're lucky flight timings would fit, gulf (and other competitor) airlines too expensive, and then - maybe - you would choose El Al...

User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24803 posts, RR: 22
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11935 times:

Flying only 6 days a week also doesn't help. Even without that obstacle I can't see LY being of much if any benefit to the major alliances.

[Edited 2013-05-02 14:58:45]

User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1293 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11749 times:

Shame the cold shoulder LY receive.

But interesting to note that Israel market is one of the highest per-capita air travel markets in the world.
Due geography and high standard of living, the propensity for air travel is very high in population, plus add in the big tourism market.
This makes Israel a significant and attractive market that should not be ignored.


User currently offlineORDTLV2414 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10594 times:
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I dont truly believe that LY is being shut out for political reasons. It may have a small part to do with it but not a ton. Like people have been saying Israel is an amazing place to visit (I've been there 4 times) but not to change planes in. Europe to Asia via TLV is unpractical. Maybe one day if a peace agreement between Israel and all its neghibors were complete, LY could be a regional carrier TLV-CAI-AMM ..... but untill then no. Also LY's fleet is so old, they need to replace their 747's soon. maybe they should fase them out. idk.

User currently offlineflyguy89 From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1899 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10536 times:

What I don't understand is why LY is seemingly shut out because it brings no strategic value, yet an airline like SV is apparently Skyteam material...I don't really see a difference between what SV and LY brings strategically to an alliance.

User currently onlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2346 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9889 times:

LY would be better served by forming tighter alliances(FFP, codesharing, lounge, ground, terminals) with individual airlines. In particular, AA and IB partnerships should be fortified. AA gives them US coverage while IB offers routes to latin America.

A close relationship with QF via HKG would also be beneficial for Israeli pax traveling to and within Australia.



The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlinekoruman From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

This is an unfortunate thread, because in this context you simply cannot separate aviation and politics.

Quite simply, if and when there is a comprehensive peace agreement - which can only mean the 2002 Arab League Proposal for a universal settlement in return for total adherence to pre-1967 borders - then Israel will be recognised by all of its neighbours and Israeli and Arab nationals will enjoy unhindered movement.

At that point Ben Gurion becomes they key airport in the Middle East, and everyone will want El Al in their alliance, because Israel has the best economy in the region and Ben Gurion serves all the Biblical sites on both sides of the Green Line which tourists would want to visit.

But the current status quo excludes Israel from such a position. They have total military dominance and therefore are essentially secure, but all of their neighbours in their region are either formally at war with them or else have a peace agreement which is almost unanimously rejected by their own citizens. But anywhere on earth, the price of enjoying peace through military superiority rather than diplomacy tends to be ostracism and exclusion. El Al's isolation is a classic case in point.

As I wrote, you can't answer this question accurately without reference to politics, because politics is the cause of El Al's isolation.


User currently offlineRyanairGuru From Australia, joined Oct 2006, 5177 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 9104 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 11):
This is an unfortunate thread, because in this context you simply cannot separate aviation and politics.

  

It's Not Just an Airline, It's Israel


I agree entirely with your points, as you say El Al will have a very bright future in-and-when there is a universally recognised settlement, but until then it is unfortunate that El Al will continue to struggle to gain traction outside of its core market.



Worked Hard, Flew Right
User currently offlineIndianicWorld From Australia, joined Jun 2001, 2910 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 7677 times:

Quoting raffik (Reply 1):
However, I do wonder how much of this is actually down to the lack of connections and value that the airline could bring to an alliance

That could very well be the case.

Not sure its entirely fair, but I am sure the alliances are taking a number of factors into consideration.


User currently onlinecedarjet From United Kingdom, joined May 1999, 8050 posts, RR: 54
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 7147 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 11):
This is an unfortunate thread, because in this context you simply cannot separate aviation and politics.

True, but remarkably civil so far - good work everybody!

This is excellent -

Quoting koruman (Reply 11):
Quite simply, if and when there is a comprehensive peace agreement - which can only mean the 2002 Arab League Proposal for a universal settlement in return for total adherence to pre-1967 borders - then Israel will be recognised by all of its neighbours and Israeli and Arab nationals will enjoy unhindered movement.

At that point Ben Gurion becomes they key airport in the Middle East, and everyone will want El Al in their alliance, because Israel has the best economy in the region and Ben Gurion serves all the Biblical sites on both sides of the Green Line which tourists would want to visit.

But the current status quo excludes Israel from such a position. They have total military dominance and therefore are essentially secure, but all of their neighbours in their region are either formally at war with them or else have a peace agreement which is almost unanimously rejected by their own citizens. But anywhere on earth, the price of enjoying peace through military superiority rather than diplomacy tends to be ostracism and exclusion. El Al's isolation is a classic case in point.

So true. Even if you set aside the moral reasons for granting statehood to Palestine, I don't know why Israel can't see the commercial logic behind a two-state solution - imagine the influx of visitors if the injustices of the last 65 years ended, with Jerusalem an international city with joint administration by both nations. It would be the world's number one tourist destination - gorgeous weather, incredible history, developed infrastructure, the focal point of three of the world's major religions, fantastic beaches, side trips to the pyramids, the three Bs of Lebanon (Beirut, Byblos*, Baalbek**), Petra***... Come on, let's get there already.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 7):
But interesting to note that Israel market is one of the highest per-capita air travel markets in the world.

Because most of Israel's population was born outside the country.

* the place the Bible is named after
** the greatest Roman ruins in the world
*** I know it is possible to do Jordan and Egypt from Israel but an all-white 737 to Cairo some days a week isn't what we're talking about, we're talking about three or four A330s a day, packed every day - one day...



fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2960 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6850 times:
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Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 13):
an all-white 737 to Cairo some days a week isn't what we're talking about, we're talking about three or four A330s a day, packed every day - one day...

Its not a white 737 any more - its this bird



User currently offlineq120 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 6211 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 11):
Quite simply, if and when there is a comprehensive peace agreement - which can only mean the 2002 Arab League Proposal for a universal settlement in return for total adherence to pre-1967 borders - then Israel will be recognised by all of its neighbours and Israeli and Arab nationals will enjoy unhindered movement.


Sadly this will never happen. As Israel will never return to the pre-1967 borders because that would be suicide for the countries defense. History has also shown that regardless of what "occupied" land has been returned, the Arabs just used it as their new front-line to attack Israel. There is a reason why Eilat.Haifa and Tel Aviv are mainstream targets now.

EL AL has to fly smart in order to continue competing with other national airlines. This would mean, a step back from the Israeli mentality and being serious about the product, this is very important if you are trying to attract new customers.



However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results
User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2960 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 6039 times:
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Quoting q120 (Reply 16):
History has also shown that regardless of what "occupied" land has been returned, the Arabs just used it as their new front-line to attack Israel. There is a reason why Eilat.Haifa and Tel Aviv are mainstream targets now.

Debatable and definitely for another place to discuss in detail.


User currently offlineLurveBus From Philippines, joined Mar 2007, 286 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5581 times:

Very interesting article.

I can also imagine that any alliance that welcomes El Al could also endanger their existing rights to fly over Arab or Iranian airspace. Most Asian members won't be able to access TLV, either.

At the end of the day, though, in the grander scheme of things, El Al's woes are a small price to pay for Israel's sense of security.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11208 posts, RR: 52
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 5581 times:

Quoting reifel (Reply 5):
No, this is defninitely not an airline which builds their network to offer convenient connections.

Definitely.

El Al is an airline whose mission is to bring people to and from Israel, Tel Aviv in particular. Compare that to any large airline (of which El Al with is 37 planes and 38 destinations can't really claim to be, can it?). Large airlines move people from place to place. KLM's mission is not to bring people to and from Amsterdam, Air France Paris, Air China even Beijing.

Other airlines in the region are simply much better positioned to help an alliance. Saudia has about four times the fleet and 3 times the destinations. Qatar has about four times the fleet and four times the destinations. And most importantly, Saudia and Qatar can take you to the more local cities in the area that European, Asian, and American airlines do not serve. Without being able to serve the region, El Al basically can only duplicate the service already provided by other distantly-based carriers.



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User currently offlineORDTLV2414 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 295 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5256 times:
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Yes all that being said I would say alot of LY money woe's have to do with the fact that the product is crap. If i had the choice (which I usually dont) every time I fly between ORD-JFK-TLV I would fly DL because the product is nice. For this winter I'm even considering flying ORD-PHL-TLV because US has a fine product for this route. LY needs to upgrade both their Y and J product.

User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2960 posts, RR: 7
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5231 times:
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Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 20):
I would say alot of LY money woe's have to do with the fact that the product is crap

Beyond doubt !


User currently offlinerutankrd From United Kingdom, joined Sep 2003, 2960 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 5229 times:
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Quoting ORDTLV2414 (Reply 20):
I fly between ORD-JFK-TL

Why not give Alia (Royal Jordanian) a go ?


User currently offlineScottishDavie From UK - Scotland, joined Feb 2011, 181 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4186 times:

Quoting rutankrd (Reply 17):
Quoting q120 (Reply 16):
History has also shown that regardless of what "occupied" land has been returned, the Arabs just used it as their new front-line to attack Israel. There is a reason why Eilat.Haifa and Tel Aviv are mainstream targets now.

Debatable and definitely for another place to discuss in detail.

Hear hear and preferably after reading Sari Nusseibeh's wonderful book "Once Upon a Country".


User currently offlineSEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4075 times:

I really don't think it's a political issue at all. LY just don't have anything to offer an alliance. Their fleet is getting old and in poor condition, TLV isn't exactly a huge hub, their route network is pretty limited internationally. They don't really have a major presence in any Star or Skyteam or OneWorld hub. I really just don't see them having much to offer anyone.

User currently offlinejfklganyc From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3378 posts, RR: 5
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 4070 times:

1. I think it definately has to do with the fact that they don't fly on Saturdays. That is unacceptable to most of the travelling public.

2. To fly EL AL you have to show up hours early for security reasons. They are famous for this and quite successful...they have never lost an airplane due to terrorism. Yet, unless you are going to Israel, why would you put yourself through the hassle of connecting there?

3. Politics...I think quite the opposite. The US is very pro-Israel. Any alliance led by a US airline: United with Star, AA with Oneworld, DL with Skyteam, would do quite well politically at home if they hooked up with El Al.

I think it really is the lack of connections and the lack of Saturday flying that effects them most


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11208 posts, RR: 52
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3920 times:

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 25):
2. To fly EL AL you have to show up hours early for security reasons. They are famous for this and quite successful...they have never lost an airplane due to terrorism. Yet, unless you are going to Israel, why would you put yourself through the hassle of connecting there?

I had completely forgotten about that.
Even when flying airlines other than LY, passengers have to arrive early for a special screening. I flew CO EWR-TLV last year and the rule of the day was that we had to go through the normal screening then save an hour or more before the flight once already through the first screening to be screened again at the gate, said gate being fairly distant from the other flights.

I can only imagine what security issues would result when a passenger flying, say, LAX-IAD-TLV has to go through an additional, lengthy screening at Dulles because he flew United to Dulles, then El Al onward. Imagine arriving at Dulles 45 minutes before your LY flight because of a minor delay, and still not being able to make your connection.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 25):
3. Politics...I think quite the opposite. The US is very pro-Israel. Any alliance led by a US airline: United with Star, AA with Oneworld, DL with Skyteam, would do quite well politically at home if they hooked up with El Al.

Yeah, but it's pretty naive and maybe even a little arrogant to think that simply being led by a US airline would make the other partners in the region bend to their will. If LY joins an alliance that has Saudia, expect Saudia to leave. Then the question is not who do you like more politically, but which of these two airlines (LY or Saudia) would benefit the alliance more?

It's Saudia.



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User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17335 posts, RR: 46
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3872 times:

Quoting BMI727 (Reply 4):
. If the choice is take El Al or take one of the major Gulf carriers as a partner, you'd take the Arab airline seven days a week and twice on Saturday.

I don't know if it's quite that simple--LY does offer access to a relatively large, wealthy, and frequently traveling local population that is not replicated anywhere else in the Middle East. Those passengers add some value to say an EU carrier flying them beyond the EU to the Americas, whereas the ME3 just compete for the same traffic that EU carrier would prefer to carry nonstop, without much of a local component.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently onlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3782 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 11):
Quite simply, if and when there is a comprehensive peace agreement - which can only mean the 2002 Arab League Proposal for a universal settlement in return for total adherence to pre-1967 borders - then Israel will be recognised by all of its neighbours and Israeli and Arab nationals will enjoy unhindered movement.

It's been so long since that 2002 proposal that I'm not even sure either of the two sides has any interest in it. I suspect that the accords Clinton worked out in 2000 would have made a big difference had Yasser Arafat not rejected it.

That said, Israel's success on the technology and venture capital front suggest there may be something the airline isn't doing. It also suggests there are sound business reasons favoring travel to Israel and not just tourism.

El Al has reach into the CIS states that many of the other ME carriers don't have. From that standpoint, it should be attractive to one of the alliances. That one of them hasn't made a move suggests that the American carriers don't have the dominant influence over the alliances that their European and Asian partners have. Star is identifiably Lufthansa, not United, SkyTeam represents Air France's influence more than Delta, and OneWorld is dominated by IAG, not American.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11208 posts, RR: 52
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3251 times:

Let's see if we can look at it this way:

what routes would LY open up to Star Alliance? As in, list a few routes that Star could enjoy by adding LY.



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User currently offlinefalkerker From Seychelles, joined Apr 2012, 162 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3196 times:

Quoting D L X (Reply 29):

Let's see if we can look at it this way:

what routes would LY open up to Star Alliance? As in, list a few routes that Star could enjoy by adding LY.

Don't Orthodox Jews prefer LY? That is pretty much the only advantage any alliance would get, tempting Orthodox Jews...


User currently offlineSEA From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 235 posts, RR: 0
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3167 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 27):
I don't know if it's quite that simple--LY does offer access to a relatively large, wealthy, and frequently traveling local population that is not replicated anywhere else in the Middle East.

I think you're forgetting a major city and hub and destination... DXB.


User currently onlinetoxtethogrady From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 1213 posts, RR: 0
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3150 times:

Quoting SEA (Reply 31):
I think you're forgetting a major city and hub and destination... DXB.

Dominated by Emirates, who are allied with no one save QANTAS.

Emirates does not fly to Tel Aviv, and neither do the other MEB carriers, so that's three competitors out of the way.


User currently offlineAesma From France, joined Nov 2009, 6526 posts, RR: 9
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3040 times:

Quoting koruman (Reply 11):
At that point Ben Gurion becomes they key airport in the Middle East, and everyone will want El Al in their alliance, because Israel has the best economy in the region and Ben Gurion serves all the Biblical sites on both sides of the Green Line which tourists would want to visit.

Maybe for a time but I would expect Palestine to build an airport not too far from Jerusalem.

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 28):
That said, Israel's success on the technology and venture capital front suggest there may be something the airline isn't doing. It also suggests there are sound business reasons favoring travel to Israel and not just tourism.

The successes have a lot to do with the good education Israelis enjoy, and the links with the US. That can't really help an airline, though.



New Technology is the name we give to stuff that doesn't work yet. Douglas Adams
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24803 posts, RR: 22
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2812 times:

Quoting flyguy89 (Reply 9):
What I don't understand is why LY is seemingly shut out because it brings no strategic value, yet an airline like SV is apparently Skyteam material...I don't really see a difference between what SV and LY brings strategically to an alliance.

SV offers far more potential connecting destinations beyond Saudi Arabia in Asia and Africa than LY, and without the time-consuming detours LY requires to several of their very few Asian destinations to avoid overflying Arab countries. SV serves roughly 30 destinations in about 20 countries where Saudi Arabia would be a potentially convenient connecting hub.

For example, how many other alliance members serve 4 cities in Pakistan? How many other alliance members even serve Pakistan? They also serve about 8 cities in India as well as Sri Lanka and Bangladesh.


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24814 posts, RR: 46
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2801 times:

Quoting Aesma (Reply 33):
Maybe for a time but I would expect Palestine to build an airport not too far from Jerusalem.

There are two already - TLV 25miles and AMM 44miles away.

Politics or not, be total waste to try to develop another airport square in the middle.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offline777way From Pakistan, joined Dec 2005, 5716 posts, RR: 4
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2776 times:

But Jerusalem has its own airport Atarot to Israeils, Qalandia to Arabs.

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 28):

El Al has reach into the CIS states that many of the other ME carriers don't have

Future maybe, they currently serve only four cities in CIS, one each in Belarus and Ukraine, two in Russia.

[Edited 2013-05-03 13:03:44]

User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17335 posts, RR: 46
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2740 times:

Quoting SEA (Reply 31):
I think you're forgetting a major city and hub and destination... DXB.

It's a big hub, but the local, onshore population is not that big. The dynamics of TLV are a little different, with both a large onshore population but also an even larger offshore population that frequently travels back to the homeland.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 24814 posts, RR: 46
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2675 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 27):
I don't know if it's quite that simple--LY does offer access to a relatively large, wealthy, and frequently traveling local population that is not replicated anywhere else in the Middle East.

  

Israel is a pretty unique market - its essentially an isolated island where air transport is a very important link.

Add in the high standard of living, big tourism market, and ever growing business market, the demand for air travel is strong.

For example for a population of 7mil people, airports handled about 15.5mil travelers in 2012, virtually 100% O&D.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineq120 From Canada, joined Aug 2008, 278 posts, RR: 0
Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 months 3 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 2546 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 38):
Israel is a pretty unique market - its essentially an isolated island where air transport is a very important link.

well said.
A unique market indeed.
EL AL should abandon the idea of joining an alliance for now and focus internally on their overall product. They are capable of surviving on their own if their management actually makes an attempt at even setting an objective for the company. It seems as if this company has been in limbo for a while now while other companies with much better products enter the market.


The YYZ-TLV route has got to be one of the most under served and ignored markets in their route structure - and they compete with Air Canada on the direct flights with the oldest Boeing 767-200ER in its fleet (now-300), with no IFE, ancient interiors and seats compared to Air Canada's remodeled interiors with their great IFE at a cheaper price or comparable. The loads on these flights are extremely healthy out of YYZ - so why offer such a poor product compared to your competition. At least throw the 777 on it or the 747-400 and connect some other destination if the loads are not enough to fill the aircraft.



However beautiful the strategy, you should occasionally look at the results
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EL AL Pulling Out Of YUL For Winter posted Mon Jan 3 2000 03:34:04 by Noise
El Al Moves From STN To LTN - Daily Flight posted Thu Mar 26 2009 02:30:51 by El Al 001
El AL To Purchase Used 744 From SQ posted Thu Nov 22 2007 01:32:07 by Amirs
El Al Q3 Net Profit Down To $1.8m From $52m posted Wed Nov 29 2006 20:43:51 by El Al 001
EL-AL All Lights Out Departure,A Procedure? posted Sat May 7 2005 16:12:22 by Wing
El Al Has Bumper Summer From N. America posted Mon Oct 4 2004 14:48:59 by El Al 001
El Al Plane Looking Like PIA From Distance posted Wed Apr 28 2004 21:41:33 by Airmale
2 EL AL 744 Departing At Same Time From JFK posted Thu Mar 18 2004 23:48:40 by Amirs
El Al Is Make Increase Flight From LAX-TLV! posted Wed Dec 10 2003 00:43:56 by ScottysAir