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Is HNL The Largest US-Japan/Orient Market?  
User currently offlineJaxMan19 From United States of America, joined Aug 2009, 95 posts, RR: 0
Posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5614 times:

I noticed today that HNL had over 10 departures just to NRT alone ..I did a little more research and found that they have numerous departures to the orient and made me wonder to ask, where is HNL located in the pacific US-oreint market?

29 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26170 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5585 times:

The largest US-Asia/Pacific gateways are

1. LAX
2. SFO
3. HNL
4. GUM
5. NYC



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineRoseflyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9828 posts, RR: 52
Reply 2, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5559 times:

NRT-HNL is the largest transpac route based on capacity, but HNL is not the largest Asia/Pacific gateway because outside of Japan, the service to Asia is limited although since the visa waiver program was extended to Korea, ICN has grown.

[Edited 2013-05-02 16:23:50]


If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineCOSPN From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Oct 2001, 1661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5511 times:

GUM has the most destinations ..but the island is only 160,000 people so limited in how many tourist we can handle but it is over 1 million a year..

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26170 posts, RR: 50
Reply 4, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 5510 times:

And as far as absolute largest routes with 12-month enplanements.

HNL-NRT - 1,498,175
LAX-NRT - 1,235,145
LAX-SYD - 1,034,192
LAX-ICN - 1,025,360
GUM-NRT - 1,006,974
SFO-HKG - 877,148
LAX-TPE - 872,123
SFO-ICN - 702,794
ORD-NRT - 647,140
SFO-NRT - 600,099
JFK-NRT - 589,510
LAX-HKG - 539,848



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8299 posts, RR: 26
Reply 5, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 5306 times:

LAX, is the above data for 2012? Do you have data for North America's top 10 overall to Japan?

[Edited 2013-05-02 18:30:23]


If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26170 posts, RR: 50
Reply 6, posted (1 year 7 months 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 4910 times:

Yes for 12-months ended September 2012.

Don't have access rest of this week, but next week I can get you a list. When you say Japan-North America, you mean USA right (excluding Hawaii and Guam/Saipan?). Don't have access to Canadian stats.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 320 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 4259 times:

I remeber back in 97 there seemed to be DC10s and 747s taking off almost every hour
by NW and JAL heading towards asia. I know NW was pretty decent in HNL. Not sure
If its the same now with DL there after the merger.


User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2980 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 4096 times:

Quoting JaxMan19 (Thread starter):
I noticed today that HNL had over 10 departures just to NRT alone

It is the Golden Week holiday here in Japan, so there maybe some extra flights. Just off top my head scheduled flights (NRT-HNL) are:
KE-A333, CI-744, UA-777, NH-763, DL-2x744, JL-2x763 & 772.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 7):
I know NW was pretty decent in HNL. Not sure
If its the same now with DL there after the merger

Pretty much the same, if not more, except that there are now 763s in the mix.
Obviously JL has dramatically shrunk, but add in Hawaiian.


User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8299 posts, RR: 26
Reply 9, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3780 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 6):
Don't have access rest of this week, but next week I can get you a list. When you say Japan-North America, you mean USA right (excluding Hawaii and Guam/Saipan?). Don't have access to Canadian stats.

Oh I see. Thanks for the offer, but it would be really interesting to see how YYZ and YVR stack up to some of these US figures.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlinePITrules From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 3256 posts, RR: 6
Reply 10, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3279 times:

I took this photo 8 years ago, I would estimate JAL occupied 1/4 of HNL's terminal facilities..

There was a 7th jumbo not in the pic, it was off to the right tucked in the corner.


http://i644.photobucket.com/albums/uu162/JDawgphoto/SCAN0001-4_zps88b5ac6e.jpg



FLYi
User currently offlineLAXdude1023 From India, joined Sep 2006, 7821 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 3231 times:

As far as US-Japan O&D is concerned, yes HNL is the largest market.

To Asia overall, no. LAX, NYC, and SFO are all larger.



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User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26170 posts, RR: 50
Reply 12, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 3071 times:

Top US-Japan markets in enplanements for the first 10-months of 2012.

Mainland
HND-JFK - 56,868
HND-LAX - 220,097
HNL-SFO - 109,431

NRT-ATL - 166,912
NRT-BOS - 53,112
NRT-DFW - 240,811
NRT-DTW - 190,740
NRT-EWR - 135,245
NRT-IAD - 236,142
NRT-IAH - 141,672
NRT-JFK - 446,968
NRT-LAX - 1,046,631
NRT-MSP - 140,689
NRT-ORD - 563,856
NRT-PDX - 98,664
NRT-SEA - 320,219
NRT-SFO - 536,543

KIX-JFK - 75,566
KIX-SEA - 75,327
KIX-SFO - 117,702

NGO-DTW - 168,929


Hawaii
HNL-CTS - 4,758
HNL-FUK - 115,138
HNL-HND - 410,879
HNL-KIX - 434,848
HNL-NGO - 214,275
HNL-NRT - 1,332,817
HNL-SDJ - 4,563


Guam/Saipan
GUM-CTS - 20,386
GUM-FUK - 51,873
GUM-HIJ - 13,371
GUM-KIJ - 9,760
GUM-KIX - 356,262
GUM-NGO - 199,343
GUM-NRT - 915,584
GUM-OKA - 11,032
GUM-OKJ - 12,570
GUM-SDJ - 17,761

SPN-NRT - 210,436

=



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1729 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

Japan sure loves their beach holidays.

Interesting to see how concentrated longhaul service to US is from Tokyo.

Even huge metro's like Osaka (18million people) and Nagoya (10mil) barely sustain any service.

Why does neither have link to largest US market like Los Angeles for example?


User currently offlinecarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2980 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2914 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):
Why does neither have link to largest US market like Los Angeles for example?

Two words: TSA and visas.
Hugely popular destination prior to 2001 but Europe, southeast Asia and other markets have taken their place.


User currently offlineinfinit From Singapore, joined Jul 2008, 617 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2873 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 1):


The thread starter says US- Japan/Orient. This would only refer to Northeast Asia like China, Korea and Taiwan.

The data you posted though is for Asia Pacific which would include Southeast Asia like Thailand and Singapore.


User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1729 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2698 times:

Do Japan no longer view America as interesting market still?

I know it seems China is starting to eclipse Japan as the big outbound tourism producer these days.

[Edited 2013-05-08 12:03:39]

User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26170 posts, RR: 50
Reply 17, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2689 times:

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):
Even huge metro's like Osaka (18million people) and Nagoya (10mil) barely sustain any service.
Why does neither have link to largest US market like Los Angeles for example?

Historically both cities had LAX links, but none at the moment.

Its probably also important to note that Japan-US market has seen continued to shrinkage over the last decade.

Some reasons are probably economic, however much of it has to do with Japan no longer being the defacto gateway to broader Far-East as airlines have pursued growth of direct services deeper into the region, and as other airports such as ICN have arrived on the scene as viable gateways themselves.

Quoting infinit (Reply 15):
The thread starter says US- Japan/Orient. This would only refer to Northeast Asia like China, Korea and Taiwan.

The data you posted though is for Asia Pacific which would include Southeast Asia like Thailand and Singapore.

The US DOT classifies regional entities and traffic statistics into 3 buckets - Pacific, Latin and Atlantic, so what I post will be inclusive of all activity across such regions.

You'll have to ask the OPer as to what he might consider to be "Orient".



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineluckyone From United States of America, joined Aug 2008, 2234 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2660 times:

Quoting carpethead (Reply 14):
Two words: TSA and visas.

Japan is a participant in the visa waiver program, and as such its citizens do not require a visa. Secondly, Hawaii, being part of the United States, falls under the same rules for visas and TSA as LAX, so those probably aren't very good ones.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 26029 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 2574 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Its probably also important to note that Japan-US market has seen continued to shrinkage over the last decade.

Some reasons are probably economic, however much of it has to do with Japan no longer being the defacto gateway to broader Far-East as airlines have pursued growth of direct services deeper into the region, and as other airports such as ICN have arrived on the scene as viable gateways themselves.

Apart from the weak Japanese economy, the Japanese population is also shrinking and rapidly aging. More Japanese are dying than being born due to a very low birth rate.


User currently offlinehawaiian717 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 3212 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2434 times:

Quoting PITrules (Reply 10):
I took this photo 8 years ago, I would estimate JAL occupied 1/4 of HNL's terminal facilities..

Looks about right. It used to be that in the morning, the Ewa Concourse would be pretty much all JAL/JALways/Japan Air Charter 747s, with the occasional DC-10, and ANA way down at gate 34. By 11-noon they'd be clearing out and Hawaiian's morning departures from the west coast would be arriving.

Seems like now JAL has far fewer flights, and mostly 767s with some 777s.


User currently offlineaaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8299 posts, RR: 26
Reply 21, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 2409 times:

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 17):
Some reasons are probably economic,

More like most!

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):
Even huge metro's like Osaka (18million people) and Nagoya (10mil) barely sustain any service.

The markets themselves are important to look at. Osaka has a huge population but traditionally has had a more manufacturing-based economy than Tokyo. It is more difficult for people in those jobs here to get the vacation time needed to go anywhere, compared to the office jobs that dominate Tokyo.

Japanese in Tokyo are also more loose with their disposable income. Nagoya, for example, is well known throughout Japan as a conservative town that doesn't part with money easily, despite the fact that salaries on on par with Tokyo and household savings are actually higher than any other metro in Japan (probably because fewer people spend thousands of dollars a year on overseas family holidays).

The only reason NGO has had DTW service forever is because of Toyota and their group companies' massive footprint in Michigan and the Ohio River valley.

All three metros have seen pretty stable service (if not increases) to destinations like Bali, Guam, and Cheju. Hawaii will never lose its appeal, particularly to honeymooners and retired persons, but it ain't what it used to be either.

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 13):
Interesting to see how concentrated longhaul service to US is from Tokyo.

It's not all that surprising. The majority of Americans residing in Japan live in the Kanto area, and a clear majority of American firms with significant Japanese operations are also HQ'd in the region.



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2908 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2386 times:

Keep in mind that Japan was the second country to join the U.S. Visa Waiver Program (months after the U.K.) back in 1988. Thus, for 2 1/2 decades Japanese citizens have enjoyed hassle-free access to Hawaii, whilst all other Asians* have had to do the arduous U.S. visa routine process (high processing fees, face to face interviews at the American embassy or consulate, etc.), even just for a Hawaiian vacation. Almost all traffic on these flights is inbound Asian tourists. As such, pretty much all Asian traffic at HNL has been service to Japan - since the advent of the 747-400, anyway. Really the only exception is the Philippines, which has unique political and sociocultural ties to the Hawaii and of course the U.S. at large. Now we are starting to see new opportunities arise as other major countries like South Korea and Taiwan join the Visa Waiver Program, while airlines are still hesitant to serve Hawaii from non-VWP nations other than the Philippines - even China. Hopefully HA's new HNL-PEK will be successful in spite of the onerous American visa rules for Chinese citizens, though!

*Except the citizens of Brunei, since 1993, Singapore, since 1999, South Korea, since 2008, and Taiwan, since 2012.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26170 posts, RR: 50
Reply 23, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 2280 times:

Since I mentioned the large decline in traffic between Japan and the US, let me supply the numbers.

Total enplanements:
2000 - 15,248,725
2001 - 14,642,994
2002 - 13,103,061
2003 - 12,662,564
2004 - 13,055,435
2005 - 13,356,808
2006 - 12,813,167
2007 - 12,075,037
2008 - 11,286,645
2009 - 10,826,781
2010 - 10,773,156
2011 - 10,199,965


Almost a 50% drop in a decade !



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlinemercure1 From French Polynesia, joined Jul 2008, 1729 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (1 year 7 months 3 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2136 times:

Out of ciriosity, what does traffic look like from other markets like Korea, Tiawan, Chona etc to US?

25 LAXintl : Enplanements. China 2000 - 636,567 2011 - 3,319,336 Hong Kong 2000 - 1,413,506 2011 - 2,341,894 Taiwan 2000 - 2,272,197 2011 - 2,488,218 South Korea 2
26 aaron747 : Interesting, so interpolating a bit based on the above, around 2008-2010 would have been the first time China + HK + Taiwan + South Korea combined for
27 carpethead : Yes, I am aware of the visa waiver, but still one travelling to the US need to go on-line or have the travel agent fill out forms, etc. Plus horror n
28 LAXintl : The growth of these other markets, especially China and Korea are quite impressive. Also with Korea and Taiwan as recent entrants in the Visa Waiver
29 aaron747 : Absolutely. Pretty much every person I know who travels to the US comes back complaining of how they were treated by airport officials, particularly
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