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Delta To Add LAX-PDX Plus Other Changes  
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20682 times:

Delta is making more changes at LA.

New:
LAX-PDX 4x daily (CR9) starts 9/3

Added
Daily frequency on LAX-CMH(738) and LAX-IND(320). 8/20
2 more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3
LAX-BOS extended to 9/2 (73H)
LAX-MSY getting a 3rd daily flight 9/3(all 319)
LAX-TPA going to a morning flight again. 8/20 and going to 738 from 320)


With all the changes it puts Delta at nearly 120 flights per day.

two things, all this is in the Delta timetable and I tried to post times twice and anet crashed on me. So its someone elses problem now.      



[Edited 2013-05-08 23:09:22]


yep.
144 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 20723 times:

More new service at PDX.   


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5432 posts, RR: 12
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20557 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-PDX 4x daily (CR9) starts 9/3

Added
2 more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3

Obviously retaliation at AS for their PDX-ATL announcement!  

bb


User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20504 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
Obviously retaliation at AS for their PDX-ATL announcement!

Ha ha!


Way back when, they used to fly PDX - LAX with an MD-11! Among other planes.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20472 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-PDX 4x daily (CR9) starts 9/3
Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3

It just got serious! lol

Quoting cschleic (Reply 3):
Way back when, they used to fly PDX - LAX with an MD-11! Among other planes.

We flew them LAX-PDX-SEA in the last row of a 727-200. Would have liked the MD11, though.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently onlineANA787 From United States of America, joined Jun 2012, 284 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 20470 times:

Nice!

Hopefully now DL will add the rumored PDX-CDG service.

I also hope DL will bring back the evening/late afternoon PDX-HNL service.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20424 times:

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 5):

I'd like to see PDX-HNL back. (not holding my breath for CDG)

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):

I am starting to think maybe Delta is getting a little pissy.

While I thought LAX-PDX was only a matter of time....I really thought ORD, Texas and Denver would come first. The late add(after just adding BNA,GEG,ANC,BOS,SEA,SJC plus extra flights/capacity to SFO,LAS,PHX,OAK,SMF) makes me think this came due to PDX-ATL on AS. (i mean, why wait till 9/3 when all those new routes/adds are starting in June?)

but maybe not. hopefully more LAX growth keeps coming.

I think we all knew they would go daily on IND/CMH.

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 4):
It just got serious! lol

what will be interesting is if they continue the mainline flying of the route.



yep.
User currently onlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2115 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20393 times:

Quoting cschleic (Reply 3):
Way back when, they used to fly PDX - LAX with an MD-11! Among other planes.

I don't think they ever flew the MD-11s on the PDX-LAX route. Maybe when they first got the GE powered ones and had to do fuel stops, but I don't think they were regularly scheduled.

I do remember the 727s and 757s on the route though.

In any event, this is good news. The Alaska flights have been packed to the gills lately and a little more capacity is a good thing. The Skywest CR9s are nice planes.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20380 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 6):
I am starting to think maybe Delta is getting a little pissy.

I wouldn't make too much of it. We might not even be back to the full nonstop capacity we had when United ran 737s down to LAX.

The Portland economy is heating up. I haven't verified this elsewhere, but the news this morning said homes coming onto the market are selling 'within hours'. That's a huge uptick in our local economy from 4-5 years ago.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20339 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):

Oh like i said, I honestly think it was coming one way or another. I just think DFW/IAH/ORD would come first. (and really, SAT/AUS and maybe even OKC)

DEN/PDX seemed like some of the last few pieces of the puzzle. guess not.

Also, like i said, they had the big PR for all the new service not even a month ago. Now they are expanding into SEA/PDX-LAX and new AA markets.

(and i generally don't believe in airline pissing matches, but we just may be seeing one here)



yep.
User currently onlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2115 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20276 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 8):
The Portland economy is heating up. I haven't verified this elsewhere, but the news this morning said homes coming onto the market are selling 'within hours'. That's a huge uptick in our local economy from 4-5 years ago.

An increase in home sales doesn't necessarily mean the economy is picking up and adding jobs. A lot of the sales could be attributed to investors looking for a bargain.

The Oregon economy as a whole is certainly much healthier than 2007 and 2008 (that was a scary time at my company...along with most others), but it's still not doing all that great. I think the March unemployment number in Oregon was 8.3%. Nationally it is 7.6% and in WA it's 7.3%.


User currently offlineSurfandSnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2865 posts, RR: 30
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20261 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
Delta is making more changes at LA.

Yes, and I think their recent LAX expansion makes a lot more sense than that haphazard mess of the mid-2000s. They've gradually established a great regional base that appeals to local FFers (no Angeleno can routinely fly an airline that doesn't offer service to Vegas and the Bay Area) whilst providing feed for the longer haul stuff. Now, with that increased local loyalty and connecting feed, they should be much better positioned to pull off niche routes like LAX-GEG or jump back into uber-competitive markets like LAX-BOS.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
New:
LAX-PDX 4x daily (CR9) starts 9/3

After LAX-SEA, this was only a matter of time. However, I do wonder if 4 competing nonstop carriers (plus the WN one stops) on this route is viable. If 4 was too many for the DEN-PDX route, I wonder if something will have to give on LAX-PDX. AS won't be going anywhere, but it will be interesting to see if DL, UA, and VX can hold up. I believe UA was flying 757s on LAX-PDX just a few years ago..now CRJs. How times have changed.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
Daily frequency on LAX-CMH(738) and LAX-IND(320). 8/20

No resumption of BDL? Or PIT? Or STL? Or AUS? Or DFW? Or ORD? Or a daytime MIA flight? They are letting AA off pretty easily here. Last time they upped the RDU frequency and decided to give them some more competition on LAX-BNA.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
2 more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3

Wow. As I alluded to earlier with regards to LAX-PDX, I wonder if this has less to do with AS (as many people are quick to think) and more to do with UA, or VX. Maybe DL thinks it can run UA or VX right off the LAX-SEA/PDX routes?

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-BOS extended to 9/2 (73H)

Still just a summer seasonal route. For now. Sit back and let the other 4 duke it over the slower winter months  .

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-MSY getting a 3rd daily flight 9/3(all 319)

3x daily?!? This is, IMO, the biggest surprise. I realize that DL is quite strong historically in the MSY market, but its not like competitors UA and WN are all that weak there. I do wonder if DL is trying to target UA on some of its seemingly weakest LAX routes with these moves...

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-TPA going to a morning flight again. 8/20 and going to 738 from 320)

I hear DL has been trying to put the AVOD 738s on its longer routes, and I sure hope that's the case. I was stuck on the non-AVOD 738 when I took TPA-LAX. At least this means it's no longer a redeye, though.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
With all the changes it puts Delta at nearly 120 flights per day.

Nobody can accuse them of gate squatting anymore! If anything, it seems AA and DL have been putting their LAX gates to very good use, while UA...



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 20249 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 10):
I think the March unemployment number in Oregon was 8.3%.

No good news goes unpunished, I guess. Portland unemployment has averaged in the lower 7% range lately. You know, where the flight goes to.  

Now we return you back to your scheduled discussion about Delta's new routes!   



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlinepanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4910 posts, RR: 25
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 20070 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
They've gradually established a great regional base that appeals to local FFers (no Angeleno can routinely fly an airline that doesn't offer service to Vegas and the Bay Area)

Another not-often-mentioned attribute about Delta's LAX schedule is that they now consistently offer 2-class aircraft on all routes out of LAX now, even LAX-SAN (combo of CR7 and CR9s). OAK, SMF, PHX, SJC, etc., all use either CR7s and/or CR9s as well.


User currently offlinecommavia From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 11630 posts, RR: 61
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 19984 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
Daily frequency on LAX-CMH(738) and LAX-IND(320). 8/20

Looks like AA is keeping DL honest in the LAX-CMH and LAX-IND markets, like LAX-RDU.

Ah, competition ...


User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 19793 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 9):
and maybe even OKC)

That would make three carriers on the route...as AA and UA are already established. DL tried it once...and lasted barely 6 months


User currently offlinedlflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 19662 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
2 more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3


Great because every time i look up these flights since it started its been around 90% full...Don't remember the MD-11 going to PDX but the last time i flew to PDX on DL it was on an L10-11 and now a CR9 oh well at least we have the route coming back.


User currently offlinecschleic From United States of America, joined Feb 2002, 1248 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 19531 times:

Quoting chrisair (Reply 7):
I don't think they ever flew the MD-11s on the PDX-LAX route. Maybe when they first got the GE powered ones and had to do fuel stops, but I don't think they were regularly scheduled.

I do remember the 727s and 757s on the route though.

They did. It was an extension of one of the Asian flights back when they had a mini-Asia hub at PDX. So it represented one-stop service to LAX. Don't recall which city, though. Granted, PDX - LAX mostly was 727 or 757 service. The one flight/day that operated with an MD-11 had higher fares, due to "higher service level" despite being only a two-hour flight. They also flew L-1011's to SLC.

This article, while somewhat long, has some history and a photo representative of the time....three MD-11's, a 1011, and smaller planes.

http://blog.seattlepi.com/airlinerep...-in-portland-%E2%80%93-guest-blog/


User currently offlineORD14R From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 51 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 19313 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):

Daily frequency on LAX-CMH(738) and LAX-IND(320). 8/20

In my opinion no way IND can support 2 daily flights to LAX, especially after Labor Day. Who will blink first?


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4059 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 19161 times:

Quoting ORD14R (Reply 18):
In my opinion no way IND can support 2 daily flights to LAX, especially after Labor Day. Who will blink first?

You would likely have to see DL drop IND-SLC to do this. SLC offers IND a myriad of other west coast destinations.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18955 times:

Quoting awacsooner (Reply 15):

Hmm good call.


Oh crap, you do know that ~80 of the new flights they have added over the last 4 years also failed with the ERJ expansion?
But hey thanks. It never fails that someone has to bring up the ERJ expansion. Clearly not the same but thanks for getting it out of the way  



yep.
User currently offlineawacsooner From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 1913 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18819 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
Oh crap, you do know that ~80 of the new flights they have added over the last 4 years also failed with the ERJ expansion?
But hey thanks. It never fails that someone has to bring up the ERJ expansion. Clearly not the same but thanks for getting it out of the way

But did DL also have competition on the OKC-LAX route during the ERJ expansion? Methinks not...as AA and UA came in after they exited the route.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18767 times:

Good news. More competition indeed. With that said, I'm wondering how much longer UA will stay on PDX-LAX and if Virgin will increase their frequency.

User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 18739 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):

Not necessarily.


User currently offlinergreenftm From United States of America, joined Jan 2008, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 18662 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Wow. As I alluded to earlier with regards to LAX-PDX, I wonder if this has less to do with AS (as many people are quick to think) and more to do with UA, or VX. Maybe DL thinks it can run UA or VX right off the LAX-SEA/PDX routes?

Me thinks there is a very good possibility that DL that is run off the LAX-SEA/PDX routes  


User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1027 posts, RR: 0
Reply 25, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 19101 times:

Quoting panamair (Reply 13):
Another not-often-mentioned attribute about Delta's LAX schedule is that they now consistently offer 2-class aircraft on all routes out of LAX now, even LAX-SAN (combo of CR7 and CR9s).

And not just availability on every route from LAX, it's 2-class airplanes on every FLIGHT by DL and DL Connection carriers. There's isn't a single 50-seater (or smaller) in the mix.

[Edited 2013-05-09 09:14:01]

[Edited 2013-05-09 09:14:24]

User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 26, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18877 times:

Quoting rgreenftm (Reply 24):
Me thinks there is a very good possibility that DL that is run off the LAX-SEA/PDX routes

With DL and AA cozy with AS, and with UA more focused on SFO (and down to CRJ's to to SEA/PDX ex-LAX), I would tend to think it will be VX or UA that blink.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlinedoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3407 posts, RR: 3
Reply 27, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 18966 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 26):
VX or UA that blink.

VX loads seem to have been improving based on my anecdotal observations. If UA wants to be a be able to provide a full network to LAX FFs it seems 2 50 seaters a day is pretty much the floor of what they can do. I would say VX (if they fold) or DL (because they will still have AS feed) would be most likely to blink.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineMah4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32782 posts, RR: 72
Reply 28, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18968 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 26):
With DL and AA cozy with AS, and with UA more focused on SFO (and down to CRJ's to to SEA/PDX ex-LAX), I would tend to think it will be VX or UA that blink.

It is rumored that AA will be entering the LAX-SEA/PDX markets within a year as part of yet another LAX push. Cozy with AS or not, the market will get more crowded, and UA surely isn't going to blink.



a.
User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 29, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 18687 times:

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 28):
UA surely isn't going to blink.

Well, perhaps they'll upgauge? Regardless, it will indeed be a crowded market.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 30, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18439 times:

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
I hear DL has been trying to put the AVOD 738s on its longer routes, and I sure hope that's the case. I was stuck on the non-AVOD 738 when I took TPA-LAX. At least this means it's no longer a redeye, though.

Easy way to tell if your -800 has AVOD or Global: the 73H "Has" AVOD and the obviously the 738 is then an -800 w/global.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6533 posts, RR: 2
Reply 31, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18302 times:

Quoting B727FA (Reply 30):
Easy way to tell if your -800 has AVOD or Global: the 73H "Has" AVOD and the obviously the 738 is then an -800 w/global.

Last year I had an overnight PHX-JFK flight, and it was scheduled to be one of the non-AVOD aircraft, however, in the end it was operated by an AVOD aircraft. Hopefully this is also the case with my upcoming PHX-ATL flight on June 5.

Fact is, you cannot totally rely on the DL website to determine if your 738 flight will have AVOD or not.

[Edited 2013-05-09 12:30:17]


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently onlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2115 posts, RR: 3
Reply 32, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 18110 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 31):
Fact is, you cannot totally rely on the DL website to determine if your 738 flight will have AVOD or not.

+1. Had four or five flights scheduled as 73Hs last year--all were swapped for the non AVOD 738s. Really no big deal since they were PHX-SLC runs.


User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 33, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 17074 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
Delta is making more changes at LA.

All good.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Yes, and I think their recent LAX expansion makes a lot more sense than that haphazard mess of the mid-2000s.

And now we await the rumored more destinations in C. America from LAX (SAL for example)

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Now, with that increased local loyalty and connecting feed, they should be much better positioned to pull off niche routes

I agree.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 28):
It is rumored that AA will be entering the LAX-SEA/PDX markets within a year as part of yet another LAX push.

And this is why DL is acting now. I cannot allow AA to turn LAX into a latin/pacific fortress like MIA. And also the reason why i think that unless they are bleeding lots and lots, DL will stick it out in LAX this time.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineProst From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1041 posts, RR: 1
Reply 34, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 16896 times:

So United is the largest network carrier in LAX, AA is number two, WN is number three, and DL pulls up number four. The question that I have is with AA and DL beefing up their schedules, who loses? Are these passengers being poached from UA and WN, or are AA and DL stimulating new demand?

User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 35, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 16857 times:

Quoting Prost (Reply 34):

DL should be larger than WN in flights and market share. Just FWIW



yep.
User currently offlineDeltaRules From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3771 posts, RR: 9
Reply 36, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 16280 times:

DL dropping the gloves with AA over CMH-LAX...saw that coming! It'll be interesting to see how DL's red-eye Eastbound leg does against AA's daylight version.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 32):
+1. Had four or five flights scheduled as 73Hs last year--all were swapped for the non AVOD 738s. Really no big deal since they were PHX-SLC runs.

I can vouch for this as well. 738 and 757 action into CMH may say it has AVOD, but the best way to tell if it actually will is to sit down and see if you have a screen or just a headrest in front of you once you get on the plane.



Let's Kick the Tires & Light the Fires!!
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 37, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15677 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
Delta is making more changes at LA.

New:
LAX-PDX 4x daily (CR9) starts 9/3

Added
Daily frequency on LAX-CMH(738) and LAX-IND(320). 8/20
2 more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3
LAX-BOS extended to 9/2 (73H)
LAX-MSY getting a 3rd daily flight 9/3(all 319)
LAX-TPA going to a morning flight again. 8/20 and going to 738 from 320)


With all the changes it puts Delta at nearly 120 flights per day.

two things, all this is in the Delta timetable and I tried to post times twice and anet crashed on me. So its someone elses problem now.

Wow, just a whole bunch of AS and AA retaliation routes. I guess they are rolling in cash (as evidence by their new dividend), so they are "investing" some money in retaliation.

Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
Obviously retaliation at AS for their PDX-ATL announcement!

Exactly...you wonder if that partnership will continue. I think it is more valuable for DL than AS and DL is making waves. AS is too, but I think DL's SEA operation collapses without AS. The reverse is not true.


User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6533 posts, RR: 2
Reply 38, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15580 times:

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 36):
I can vouch for this as well. 738 and 757 action into CMH may say it has AVOD, but the best way to tell if it actually will is to sit down and see if you have a screen or just a headrest in front of you once you get on the plane.

If you want to know in advance, you can manually search every registration on FlightAware until you find your flight.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 39, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 15393 times:

Quoting Prost (Reply 34):
The question that I have is with AA and DL beefing up their schedules, who loses?

Nobody does and the consumer wins. As for which airline in LAX will blink first, I honestly think UA is most likely to draw down before AA, DL or WN.

Quoting enilria (Reply 37):
I think DL's SEA operation collapses without AS

I don't think so. Even on the remote chance the relationship between AS and DL crumbles, DL can ramp up whatever domestic feed they deem necessary and would have no problem finding a regional partner to pick up the smaller, more valuable PNW destinations (i.e. PDX, GEG, YVR, etc).

In the end it all depends on what DL wants Seattle to look like. There's this tendency on Anet, especially when discussing DL, that they have to be the biggest (and everyone else has to fail) and that is always the measure of success. DL can be a solid #2 in Seattle and still make it a highly profitable operation. DL will still be the primary international airline and will be tapping those lucrative yields because AS is unlikely to launch Asia or Europe anytime soon. In the end, as for transoceanic marketing and feed, AS indeed needs DL more than the other way around. I suspect the most profitable part about the AS/DL relationship is access to each other's elite passengers (who pay more, show more loyalty) more than connections to Wentachee or Bend.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 40, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 15250 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 39):

In the end it all depends on what DL wants Seattle to look like. There's this tendency on Anet, especially when discussing DL, that they have to be the biggest (and everyone else has to fail) and that is always the measure of success. DL can be a solid #2 in Seattle and still make it a highly profitable operation. DL will still be the primary international airline and will be tapping those lucrative yields because AS is unlikely to launch Asia or Europe anytime soon. In the end, as for transoceanic marketing and feed, AS indeed needs DL more than the other way around. I suspect the most profitable part about the AS/DL relationship is access to each other's elite passengers (who pay more, show more loyalty) more than connections to Wentachee or Bend.

this.

Worst thing happens, Delta has the back up plan to be able to use some of the 739/717 capacity for growth. They also have cap room in the section 1 to add 30 more 76 seaters for DCI feed.
but at this point that is just worse case. As you said, its not like Delta will be growing to some huge hub. Really 2-3 three banks of western US cities (LAX,SAN,SFO,PDX,DEN,LAS,PHX) Limited mid-con (DFW,IAH,ORD) and some trans-con (MCO,MIA,BOS,IAD) would be the basic need.



yep.
User currently onlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2115 posts, RR: 3
Reply 41, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 14667 times:

Quoting cschleic (Reply 17):
This article, while somewhat long, has some history and a photo representative of the time....three MD-11's, a 1011, and smaller planes.

Thanks for the article. I really can't remember that LA flight, but I really only started following the happenings at PDX once I moved there in 1998.

Somewhere I have a photo of me sitting on the main gear of the last MD-11 PDX-Asia flight.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 42, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 14623 times:
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Does it mean that SEA-LAX will retain mainline, or is just simply DL Connection will have 5X daily (give or take) after 9/3?

My guess is that AS is not able or willing to provide additional capacity on the SEA-LAX route to accommodate DL pax.


User currently offlinePlanesNTrains From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 5582 posts, RR: 28
Reply 43, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 14602 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 39):
I don't think so. Even on the remote chance the relationship between AS and DL crumbles, DL can ramp up whatever domestic feed they deem necessary and would have no problem finding a regional partner to pick up the smaller, more valuable PNW destinations (i.e. PDX, GEG, YVR, etc).

I think DL can survive in SEA without AS, but it won't be nearly as easy. For one thing, they don't have unlimited terminal capacity from what I can tell. AS has a lot of capacity and can move things around (drop a flight in one market so that they can grow in another) without disrupting the flow in SEA. One thing that the PDX additions might be doing for AS is freeing up some SEA capacity for additional flying in these markets that DL is encroaching in.

I really have to wonder if DL is trying to secure lift, trying to hurt AA/UA, or trying to pressure AS into DL's arms? I hope that it's simply a revenue play at SEA to carry people from point A to point B vis SEA without needing to cut a check to AS.

-Dave



Next Trip: SEA-ABQ-SEA on Alaska
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 44, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14540 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 42):

With 5x CR9 total capacity of 380 seats

with the current mix, 1x 738, 1x 757, 1x CR7, its 399 seats. So its a small net decrease with much better connection opportunities. Like SFO/LAS, I would expect a mainline mix in the peak summer months and more DCI in the off season.



yep.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 45, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14506 times:

Quoting PlanesNTrains (Reply 43):

I think DL can survive in SEA without AS, but it won't be nearly as easy. For one thing, they don't have unlimited terminal capacity from what I can tell. AS has a lot of capacity and can move things around (drop a flight in one market so that they can grow in another) without disrupting the flow in SEA. One thing that the PDX additions might be doing for AS is freeing up some SEA capacity for additional flying in these markets that DL is encroaching in.

While S doesn't have really any room to grow, I believe A or B does have some empty space(that Delta uses some of, during peak operations) that Delta could move into.



yep.
User currently offlineProst From United States of America, joined Oct 2012, 1041 posts, RR: 1
Reply 46, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14516 times:

Currently DL uses S gates and A & B gates during the midday rush. I have no idea how that will work when UA moves their operations in to the A concourse, however.

User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 47, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 14497 times:

Quoting Prost (Reply 46):

Right, not sure how things will work once SEA gets everyone moved around.



yep.
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3256 posts, RR: 5
Reply 48, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 14420 times:

Congrats to my hometown airport for once again, landing some new service. There is no stopping the expansion here at PDX. I am sure this signals a more solid economy, and airlines are seeing the NW as an important part of a network.

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 5):
I also hope DL will bring back the evening/late afternoon PDX-HNL service.

That would be too much capacity, HA is upgauging to the 330 soon, and AS flies a daily 738, if DL adds a 757-300 there are too many seats, that is why DL left the route before. Plus if they do add it, I think the late departure is very undesirable, as a whole day is lost by the time you arrive HNL, and the red-eye return is equally undesirable.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 7):
I don't think they ever flew the MD-11s on the PDX-LAX route.

They did not use the M11 to LAX from PDX. DL had a SEA-LAX flown on a L-1011 before the WA merger, and PDX had a flight a day to LAX during the Asia bank of arrivals that were operated by 757's, 72S and 733's.

Quoting chrisair (Reply 10):
An increase in home sales doesn't necessarily mean the economy is picking up and adding jobs. A lot of the sales could be attributed to investors looking for a bargain.

There are few homes available for sale, which is why some homes are selling within hours, as was eluded above. This is a huge indicator of how the economy is doing in the Portland area. Nike has just announced a big expansion plan in Beaverton, and apartment buildings are popping up all over the place when I drive around town. Apartment vacancies are hovering in the 3% range, there are few bargains buying or renting in Portland.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):

Wow. As I alluded to earlier with regards to LAX-PDX, I wonder if this has less to do with AS (as many people are quick to think) and more to do with UA, or VX. Maybe DL thinks it can run UA or VX right off the LAX-SEA/PDX routes?

I think UA will blink first, their token 2-3 RJ service is nothing remarkable, I know SFO will stay as the connecting point to all of California from the NW for UA.

Quoting cschleic (Reply 17):

They did. It was an extension of one of the Asian flights back when they had a mini-Asia hub at PDX. So it represented one-stop service to LAX. Don't recall which city, though. Granted, PDX - LAX mostly was 727 or 757 service. The one flight/day that operated with an MD-11 had higher fares, due to "higher service level" despite being only a two-hour flight. They also flew L-1011's to SLC.

The two cities that received extensions on the M11's once they came along were ATL & CVG, DL did run a L10 to SLC for a short period of time. LAX had one M11 a day that did LAX-HKG n/s but at a later time than the PDX hub, that service started with the L15 and at that time had a fueling stop in ANC.

The service level was enhanced, what you may consider a higher fare, was the fact that L class was not offered on the M11's but K was, so L often times being the lowest priced inventory of that period for DL, then yes, they did not offer their most bargain basement fare on that aircraft, they both were full a lot.

Quoting enilria (Reply 37):
Exactly...you wonder if that partnership will continue. I think it is more valuable for DL than AS and DL is making waves. AS is too, but I think DL's SEA operation collapses without AS.

I have been of the mind that this is not DL & AS fighting, but more of AS & DL co-operating, there is no way that less than a year ago two CEO's got together in SEA with a DL 744 as a backdrop with lots of DL & AS employees to announce a stronger partnership in SEA, only to spend the time since, playing tit for tat on competing routes. There is a reason AS just announced ATL & DFW from PDX, the largest hub cities of their two domestic partners, this is strengthening, not fighting.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 42):
My guess is that AS is not able or willing to provide additional capacity on the SEA-LAX route to accommodate DL pax

With new routes, the current network, and additional places AS wants to fly to, my guess is they don't have the extra planes to add more flights, then DL can control some of the inventory by flying their own aircraft, a nice plus for DL loyal fliers when travelling via SEA or PDX. I think we will see DL & AA connecting passengers via both airports to AS.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineenilria From Canada, joined Feb 2008, 7191 posts, RR: 13
Reply 49, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14238 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 39):
I don't think so. Even on the remote chance the relationship between AS and DL crumbles, DL can ramp up whatever domestic feed they deem necessary and would have no problem finding a regional partner to pick up the smaller, more valuable PNW destinations (i.e. PDX, GEG, YVR, etc).
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 39):
In the end it all depends on what DL wants Seattle to look like. There's this tendency on Anet, especially when discussing DL, that they have to be the biggest (and everyone else has to fail) and that is always the measure of success.
Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 39):
DL can be a solid #2 in Seattle

Yes, you can be the #2 carrier in a city and do fine, but not in the way DL is going to be the #2 carrier. There is not a single non-hub domestic route where DL is the #1 carrier from SEA and in most cases DL is flying a vastly inferior schedule to AS. That's fine for feeding Asia, but you will never get business passenger loyalty on domestic routes with that kind of crappy schedule. It works at IAD and JFK because UA is the only player at IAD and at JFK because DL also has LGA for schedule quality. In SEA it won't work any time soon, they need AS. Without loyal domestic business travelers all the domestic routes will be loss-leaders to feed the Asia flights. My guess is that the Asia flights are profitable, but they'd have to be inordinately profitable to also be able to underwrite all the losing domestic feeder flights. AS was providing essentially "free" feed meaning that Delta only needed to pay for the seats they actually used for int'l connectors. Running a whole plane for that is a different level of commitment. If AS dropped DL in the next 24 months it would put DL in a very bad position. If DL has gotten to the point of having 80% of AS's frequency in markets like SEA-SFO by that point then *maybe* DL could splinter off, but AS would be dumb to help them get to that point and should cut them off long before it gets to that point. It's a very interesting situation. It's a bit of a game of chicken. Get some popcorn.

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 48):
I have been of the mind that this is not DL & AS fighting, but more of AS & DL co-operating, there is no way that less than a year ago two CEO's got together in SEA with a DL 744 as a backdrop with lots of DL & AS employees to announce a stronger partnership in SEA, only to spend the time since, playing tit for tat on competing routes. There is a reason AS just announced ATL & DFW from PDX, the largest hub cities of their two domestic partners, this is strengthening, not fighting.

Trust me, things are deteriorating.


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 50, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 14163 times:

All this doom and gloom LOL. Comedy.

Once I have some materials in hand and NOT on my phone ill respond.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinejetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3297 posts, RR: 35
Reply 51, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14175 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 49):
Yes, you can be the #2 carrier in a city and do fine, but not in the way DL is going to be the #2 carrier. There is not a single non-hub domestic route where DL is the #1 carrier from SEA and in most cases DL is flying a vastly inferior schedule to AS. That's fine for feeding Asia, but you will never get business passenger loyalty on domestic routes with that kind of crappy schedule. It works at IAD and JFK because UA is the only player at IAD and at JFK because DL also has LGA for schedule quality. In SEA it won't work any time soon, they need AS. Without loyal domestic business travelers all the domestic routes will be loss-leaders to feed the Asia flights. My guess is that the Asia flights are profitable, but they'd have to be inordinately profitable to also be able to underwrite all the losing domestic feeder flights. AS was providing essentially "free" feed meaning that Delta only needed to pay for the seats they actually used for int'l connectors. Running a whole plane for that is a different level of commitment. If AS dropped DL in the next 24 months it would put DL in a very bad position. If DL has gotten to the point of having 80% of AS's frequency in markets like SEA-SFO by that point then *maybe* DL could splinter off, but AS would be dumb to help them get to that point and should cut them off long before it gets to that point. It's a very interesting situation. It's a bit of a game of chicken. Get some popcorn.
Quoting enilria (Reply 49):
Trust me, things are deteriorating.

My friend, all of this is a dramatic overreaction. While, DL & AS are clearly sending each other signals, there is no jeopardy in the relationship deteriorating to the point that it is eliminated. It is far to valuable to both carriers. The fact is, that in several of these prime markets, AS has not been able to provide enough feed for Delta. Between AS' own paxs, and its other partner's paxs, there isn't enough capacity coming into LAX in the key hours to accommodate the kind of feed volume that Delta wants in these markets.

It really is that simple. I think the SEA-SLC, PDX-ATL and SEA-ANC stuff is a little more contentious, but it just isn't that significant in the scheme of things. They may be partners, but they are still competitors. They want each other to know that.

The sense I get, however, is that the fundamentals of this relationship are way too strong for this stuff to really be a big deal.


User currently offlinemiaami From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 52, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14053 times:

Any guesses as to when AA adds LAX-ATL or LAX-DTW?

User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 53, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 14018 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 49):
Trust me, things are deteriorating.

Trust you? Based off what proof? The big PR event they had a few months ago?

It's fine to hypothesize, but please don't shoot from the hip and make facts out of opinions, that's how bad a.net rumors and misinformation gets spread. Unless you have some damning information we don't have, don't say that it's a fact that the partnership is crumbling.

I'm thinking they are flying to each others' hubs more to increase recognition on both ends. We're seeing routes here, routes there, but no crazy capacity dumping or fare cutting. If that was the case, I'd be more inclined to agree with you. But bottom line, I don't know anything more than anyone else here, so I'm not gonna pass anything off as fact



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineB727FA From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 764 posts, RR: 0
Reply 54, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13906 times:

Quoting DeltaRules (Reply 36):
I can vouch for this as well. 738 and 757 action into CMH may say it has AVOD, but the best way to tell if it actually will is to sit down and see if you have a screen or just a headrest in front of you once you get on the plane.

If you're able to see the a/c from the gate the "H" will have the antenna "hump" about 2/3 back on top.



My comments/opinions are my own and are not to be construed as the opinion(s) of my employer.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 55, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 13829 times:

Quoting enilria (Reply 49):
Yes, you can be the #2 carrier in a city and do fine, but not in the way DL is going to be the #2 carrier. There is not a single non-hub domestic route where DL is the #1 carrier from SEA and in most cases DL is flying a vastly inferior schedule to AS.

So? Again, they don't have to crush everyone to be successful. They can offer a limited domestic schedule to boost their position in the area and I for one, think Seattle can sustain a bigger DL and give AS some competition. No other region in the country is dominated by a single airline as much as the PNW. Obviously they can't compete for those elite passengers who want 15 fights a day to LAX, but they can compete for those passengers who sit in the front of those widgety jets to Asia. Those passengers will accept a limited schedule on Delta to keep their elite statuses.

In either case, I don't see the AS/DL marriage crumbling unless something more significant happens between the two. I honestly think the DL build up is nothing more than seizing an opportunity to develop marketshare and there is no intention to weaken their AS relationship.


User currently offlinetimpdx From United States of America, joined Jul 2009, 554 posts, RR: 0
Reply 56, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 13675 times:

I remember doing PDX to LAX on the MD11 continuation from Tokyo in 90s sometime. That was the last WB flight I have ever taken along the west coast.

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 57, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 13653 times:

Some will be very surprised to find out just how many passengers each airline float on the other's metal. It's not a ton. DL has their own passengers to accommodate, along with J/V partners and the like. AS has their own people on to of the other code-shares. There's only so many seats that can be divided up on a 737...


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 58, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 13447 times:

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 51):
My friend, all of this is a dramatic overreaction. While, DL & AS are clearly sending each other signals, there is no jeopardy in the relationship deteriorating to the point that it is eliminated. It is far to valuable to both carriers. The fact is, that in several of these prime markets, AS has not been able to provide enough feed for Delta. Between AS' own paxs, and its other partner's paxs, there isn't enough capacity coming into LAX in the key hours to accommodate the kind of feed volume that Delta wants in these markets.

It really is that simple. I think the SEA-SLC, PDX-ATL and SEA-ANC stuff is a little more contentious, but it just isn't that significant in the scheme of things. They may be partners, but they are still competitors. They want each other to know that.

Now you have hit on the real answer. As those AS flights get fuller and fuller....it is harder and harder for DL to feed its flights to SYD, GUA, MEX and (soon) SJO etc.

I would not be surprised to see DL try AKL from LAX soon with feed from CDG on AF.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3505 posts, RR: 9
Reply 59, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 13294 times:

Quoting ANA787 (Reply 5):
Hopefully now DL will add the rumored PDX-CDG service.

It's tough to say anything like this and not come off as somehow "anti-PDX," but I can't see DL throwing metal at this one. PDX has no track record of sustaining multiple flights to Europe and one could argue that the scene down there is at least as dodgy now as when LH left town. PDX-AMS is already in play and connecting flights for SEA-CDG are plentiful. That being said, I hope I'm wrong for the sake of all my Portland friends/enthusiasts.

Quoting SurfandSnow (Reply 11):
Wow. As I alluded to earlier with regards to LAX-PDX, I wonder if this has less to do with AS (as many people are quick to think) and more to do with UA, or VX. Maybe DL thinks it can run UA or VX right off the LAX-SEA/PDX routes?

Could be. UA seems to be in a very extended decline on west coast routes and DL might be muscling up to kick them out for good. The AS partnership certainly helps if that's the case.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 28):
It is rumored that AA will be entering the LAX-SEA/PDX markets within a year as part of yet another LAX push. Cozy with AS or not, the market will get more crowded, and UA surely isn't going to blink.

I'd be shocked to see it. AA's brand presence in Washington/Oregon might be it's weakest anywhere of significance in the lower 48. Considering the strength of AS and the presence of other players in that market, I'd say that's a bloodbath not worth entering--especially when you're a world-class carrier going through the motions of a merger.

Quoting jetlanta (Reply 51):
The sense I get, however, is that the fundamentals of this relationship are way too strong for this stuff to really be a big deal.

I suspect that might be the case, but you never know. I have to note that watching all of this play out gives me the feeling that neither carrier has an intention of merging and simply wants to keep the other in check as a competitor while taking advantage of their current arrangement...



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 60, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13153 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 58):

I'm not sure CDG feed would help that much with an AKL service. Feed from VS flights from/to LHR would help though. The UK is I believe a significantly larger market to/from NZ than France. VA may also be able to help on the NZ end although I'm sure Air NZ would not be too happy with VA feeding DL passengers.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 61, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13078 times:

Quoting nickofatlanta (Reply 60):

Why would air NZ be upset with two JV partners feeding each other?



yep.
User currently offlineyellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6171 posts, RR: 2
Reply 62, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13099 times:

I dunno why I get the funny feeling that we will continue to see DL ramp up at LAX (incl some surprise announcements) over the next few months. How much gates space do they have left?

Those guys in ATL have their act together now and they have a clear plan. only time will tell if it will be profitable or not.



When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 63, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13043 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 61):

Why would air NZ be upset with two JV partners feeding each other?

Because Air NZ owns approximately 20% of Virgin Australia and would likely want VA to feed NZ's own flights AKL-LAX. Of course, through their ownership in VA, NZ does benefit from VA's joint-venture with DL.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 64, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 13039 times:

Quoting nickofatlanta (Reply 63):

There you go.

NZ wants VA to make money first and formost.

And IMO there is room for DL on LAX-AKL



yep.
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 65, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12993 times:

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 62):
I dunno why I get the funny feeling that we will continue to see DL ramp up at LAX (incl some surprise announcements) over the next few months. How much gates space do they have left?

The situation is getting critical. From what i've read in different company reports, the RJ remote parking is a temporary agreement between DL and LAWA. It's not suppose to be permanent (as of now) so i'm not sure what the long term plan is but they could use a couple more gates.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 66, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12966 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 64):

Does the DL/VA joint venture even encompass NZ? I would like to see a bigger DL presence in this part of the world.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 67, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 12884 times:

Quoting nickofatlanta (Reply 66):

No. That's JV is just VA and DL.

But in a round about way it sends money to NZ



yep.
User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 68, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 12804 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 67):

Apologies I meant NZ as the country not the carrier.


User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 69, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12768 times:

I'm suprised DL didn't try upgaging the LAX/MIA 738 to a 752
or add a second flight. They have a good network out of LAX to
Asia. Wouldn't they give AA a run for there money if they did that?


User currently offlinepdx From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 35 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 12672 times:

Whoever said DL did NOT fly the M11 PDXLAX is wrong. I flew DL74 on 25JUN92. It arrived from Asia and departed PDX for LAX at 1220P. Also, I just checked and the new DL PDXLAX flights (eff 09SEP13) are not loaded on delta.com. If they're really going to offer 4 flights...unfortunately...that will be too many. Hopefully it's too many for SEA too. They don't need anymore flights to LAX (or other places).

User currently onlinechrisair From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 2115 posts, RR: 3
Reply 71, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 12578 times:

Quoting pdx (Reply 70):
They don't need anymore flights to LAX (or other places).

Says who?


User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 72, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 12584 times:

Quoting pdx (Reply 70):

Delta.com get loaded last. Almost always on Saturdays if I'm not mistaken.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently onlineGentFromAlaska From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3145 posts, RR: 1
Reply 73, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 12230 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-PDX 4x daily (CR9) starts 9/3
Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
2 more daily frequencies on LAX-SEA (all CR9) 9/3
Quoting SANFan (Reply 2):
Obviously retaliation at AS for their PDX-ATL announcement!

I'm not convinced CR9 service when compared to larger jet service offered by AS, WN and others is really competition. If the prices were comparable DL could fly all the regional jets up and down the left coast all day every day. I'd stick to something a little more roomy. If DL really wanted to get pissy. They would have announced LAX. PDX or SEA to Alaska (the state)



Man can be taken from Alaska. Alaska can never be taken from the man.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 74, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12169 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 73):
They would have announced LAX. PDX or SEA to Alaska (the state)

DL did announce and will be operating seasonal non stops from Seattle and Los Angeles to Anchorage.


User currently offlinen92r03 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 75, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12155 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Thread starter):
LAX-TPA going to a morning flight again. 8/20 and going to 738 from 320)

Only for two weeks then back to the red-eye and the A320? What's up with that?


User currently offlineLAXintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25369 posts, RR: 49
Reply 76, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 12173 times:

Quoting mia305 (Reply 69):
They have a good network out of LAX to Asia.

1 flight to NRT and 1 to HND is a "good network"  



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 77, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days ago) and read 12154 times:

Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 73):
If DL really wanted to get pissy. They would have announced LAX. PDX or SEA to Alaska (the state)

They already have  



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 78, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 11962 times:

Quoting nickofatlanta (Reply 68):
Apologies I meant NZ as the country not the carrier.

oh.
AFAIK if DL/VA operated a AKL-US flight it would be covered under the JV.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 69):
Wouldn't they give AA a run for there money if they did that?

no.
AA has a ton of capacity between LAX-MIA. 2x daily 738s won't even be a blip on the radar.

Quoting n92r03 (Reply 75):
Only for two weeks then back to the red-eye and the A320? What's up with that?

give it time. See if it changes with the next few weeks.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 76):
1 flight to NRT and 1 to HND is a "good network"

same size as UA and AA

Quoting pdx (Reply 70):
Also, I just checked and the new DL PDXLAX flights (eff 09SEP13) are not loaded on delta.com.

because it won't loaded till today or tomorrow.

Quoting pdx (Reply 70):
If they're really going to offer 4 flights

They are.

Quoting pdx (Reply 70):
that will be too many.

? says what data?

Quoting pdx (Reply 70):
They don't need anymore flights to LAX (or other places).

Oh? care to explain this?

Quoting pdx (Reply 70):
Hopefully it's too many for SEA too.

....Hopefully? So you just want Delta to fail I guess?



yep.
User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 79, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 11537 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 78):

The joint venture does seem to cover New Zealand - see fourth last paragraph below:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-antitrust-nod-from-the-us-356479/


User currently offlinekgaiflyer From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 4282 posts, RR: 1
Reply 80, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 11519 times:
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Quoting chrisair (Reply 7):
I don't think they ever flew the MD-11s on the PDX-LAX route.

I certainly remember flying a DL MD-11 DFW-PDX -- though it was some time ago (1995 as I recall).


User currently offlineMIflyer12 From United States of America, joined Feb 2013, 1027 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 11511 times:

Quoting nickofatlanta (Reply 79):
The joint venture does seem to cover New Zealand - see fourth last paragraph below:

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...6479/



excerpt: Delta and Virgin Blue have allayed DOT's concerns over a strong connecting network by agreeing to include revenue from third points in Canada, Mexico and New Zealand in their revenue sharing agreement.

Sure, they can include revenue from NZ (the country) but that doesn't necessarily imply the JV specifies NZ-US non-stop operations, or that the JV has the rights to it.


User currently offlinenickofatlanta From Australia, joined May 2000, 1488 posts, RR: 0
Reply 82, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11070 times:

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 81):

Any Australian airlines, a

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 81):

Any Australian and US airline has the rights to fly USA-NZ.


User currently offlinealexinwa From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 1150 posts, RR: 0
Reply 83, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11009 times:

There was a time you would see at least 4, sometimes 6 MD11's on the ground at PDX. PDX-ATL/CVG/LAX/DFW have all seen the MD11. Even PDX-JFK was a 763 for a time. LAX-SEA used to be a L1011 in the evening.


You mad Bro???
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 1
Reply 84, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11008 times:

I see one new SEA-LAS OO CR9 starting 6/10. Does anyone think one late evening flight will do well for them to keep it around?


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 85, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 11004 times:

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 81):

That's pretty much how it reads to me.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 86, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 10493 times:

Quoting n92r03 (Reply 75):

Ok now i can publicly answer this.

Check again, they have extended the morning flight.
LAX-TPA
DL0933 0955 1730 320

TPA-LAX
DL1558 0705 0922 320

LAX-MCI goes double daily
DL5700 0905 1414 E75
DL5702 1815 2324 E75

MCI-LAX
DL5700 0700 0830 E75
DL5702 1600 1722 E75
(so a net increase of 32 seats.)

LAX-CMH goes to a morning flight
DL1170 0950 1707 738

CMH-LAX
DL1327 0735 0936 738

Just a comparison to AA's CMH flights
LAX-CMH
AA1260 1015 1735 738
CMH-LAX
AA1267 1820 1955 738

So Delta has moved both RDU and CMH to morning flights both ways. IND is still in the red-eye set up so it will be interesting to see if they move this or keep it as is.
Also SEA-LAX will have 1 CR9 replaced with a 320 and 1 replaced with a E75.



yep.
User currently offlinecessna2 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 338 posts, RR: 2
Reply 87, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 10213 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 86):
So Delta has moved both RDU and CMH to morning flights both ways.

CMH yes...but where in the schedule do you see LAX-RDU switched to a morning flight? Still shows the red-eye...


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10123 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 86):
LAX-MCI goes double daily
DL5700 0905 1414 E75
DL5702 1815 2324 E75

MCI-LAX
DL5700 0700 0830 E75
DL5702 1600 1722 E75
(so a net increase of 32 seats.)

Hmmm...I've noticed that DL seems to have flights to most of their larger midwest outstations...ie...IND, MCI, CMH, MKE too I think.

I wonder if OMA-LAX might be in the cards too with an E-175? No other carrier currently operates this route. I know DL ran a A-319 for a couple of days a few weeks ago because of the Berkshire Hathway Meeting. In addition, Expressjet ran 2x daily E-145's OMA-ONT for years and was one of the last routes to get axed when Expressjet folded their independent operation...showing their is demand.


User currently offlinedlflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 89, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10075 times:

I like the the two flights to MCI that will help when I go see my Broncos play in Arrowhead!!
Thanks Deltal1011man for the info,the only thing that irritates me is the LAX-GDL flights in the summer it looks like it goes double daily,One flight is on a 757-200 AM doesn't even do that to GDL,why not send A 757 to KOA??


User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4401 posts, RR: 6
Reply 90, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 10102 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting miaami (Reply 52):
Any guesses as to when AA adds LAX-ATL or LAX-DTW?

I could see the potential for LAX-MSP as well on AA.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 84):
I see one new SEA-LAS OO CR9 starting 6/10. Does anyone think one late evening flight will do well for them to keep it around?

Interesting find. DL has been doing well out of LAS, and has greatly expanded LAS-LAX offerings. WN and AS both serve LAS-SEA but DL may be able to squeeze out a couple daily CR9's on this route.

[Edited 2013-05-17 15:25:12]


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD. Return: US SJD-PHX, WN PHX-MDW-DSM
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 91, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9910 times:

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 88):
I wonder if OMA-LAX might be in the cards too with an E-175? No other carrier currently operates this route. I know DL ran a A-319 for a couple of days a few weeks ago because of the Berkshire Hathway Meeting. In addition, Expressjet ran 2x daily E-145's OMA-ONT for years and was one of the last routes to get axed when Expressjet folded their independent operation...showing their is demand.



That would be an interesting one. Even a daily CR7 or CR9 to start would be a good thing just to test the waters but i'm afraid heavy hitters like LAX-DFW, LAX-DEN, and LAX-ORD would/should come first. Yes, heavy competition on all but DL would eventually have to serve these destinations.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 92, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days ago) and read 9599 times:
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Quoting GentFromAlaska (Reply 73):
I'm not convinced CR9 service when compared to larger jet service offered by AS, WN and others is really competition. If the prices were comparable DL could fly all the regional jets up and down the left coast all day every day. I'd stick to something a little more roomy. If DL really wanted to get pissy. They would have announced LAX. PDX or SEA to Alaska (the state)

The CR9 is a not a bad a/c for a flight just over 2 hours. It's a lot more comfortable than those CR2s. The cabin is much nicer. It would be nice if DL offered fresh BOB meals like AS does. That way their products will be almost identical in the main cabin.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 86):
Ok now i can publicly answer this. Check again, they have extended the morning flight. LAX-TPADL0933 0955 1730 320TPA-LAXDL1558 0705 0922 320 LAX-MCI goes double daily DL5700 0905 1414 E75DL5702 1815 2324 E75MCI-LAXDL5700 0700 0830 E75DL5702 1600 1722 E75(so a net increase of 32 seats.)
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 86):
Also SEA-LAX will have 1 CR9 replaced with a 320 and 1 replaced with a E75.

Is LAX-TPA mainly operated with a A320 since it's mainly a leisure market versus operating a 73H?
Too bad MCI is being downgauged to a E75, but then again, the E75 is a nice a/c and an additional frequency is good news versus operating a single rotation. On the longer E75 flights such as to MCI, does DLC or will they offer fresh BOB meals?


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 93, posted (1 year 4 months 4 days ago) and read 9632 times:
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In regards to the UA in the LAX-PDX/SEA markets, I wouldn't be surprised to see them axe both routes. These are not high priority routes for them out of LAX anymore like they were years ago.

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 94, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 9492 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 92):
The CR9 is a not a bad a/c for a flight just over 2 hours. It's a lot more comfortable than those CR2s. The cabin is much nicer. It would be nice if DL offered fresh BOB meals like AS does. That way their products will be almost identical in the main cabin.

BOB (EATS) is only offered on flights over 1,499 miles. EATS was available on ATL-STX while the CR7/9 was on its. Premium snacks for purchase is available on all flights over 599 miles. Whether is a CR2 or 757.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 92):
On the longer E75 flights such as to MCI, does DLC or will they offer fresh BOB meals?

No, see above.

MCI-LAX is only 1360 miles.

Again, at the moment there are exactly zero large RJs operating flights over 1499 miles which would qualify for

[Edited 2013-05-17 17:14:42]


What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 95, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 9282 times:
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Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 94):

BOB (EATS) is only offered on flights over 1,499 miles. EATS was available on ATL-STX while the CR7/9 was on its. Premium snacks for purchase is available on all flights over 599 miles. Whether is a CR2 or 757.
Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 94):

No, see above.

MCI-LAX is only 1360 miles.

Again, at the moment there are exactly zero large RJs operating flights over 1499 miles which would qualify for[Edited 2013-05-17 17:14:42]

Thanks, FlyASAGuy2005. DL/DLC really needs to think about changing this for these midcons. AS offers fresh BOB meals on their Southern California-SEA flights.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 96, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 9176 times:

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 88):
MKE too I think.

No it got cut not long after the merger when Midwest(via E90s) came back on the route. Now that it is just down to WN i expect Delta will try to run it again.

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 88):
I wonder if OMA-LAX might be in the cards too with an E-175? No other carrier currently operates this route.

I agree with flyASA. I think it would work but IMO cities like DEN,DFW,ORD,IAH,OKC,AUS,SAT,STL,MKE,IAD etc. would all come first. Delta is really starting to run out of room, and flights like the places above are more needed than OMA right now.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 92):
Is LAX-TPA mainly operated with a A320 since it's mainly a leisure market versus operating a 73H?

I'm not sure why its a 320 not a 738. Its one of the longest routes without any IFE. IMO something Delta needs to work on.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 92):
Too bad MCI is being downgauged to a E75, but then again, the E75 is a nice a/c and an additional frequency is good news versus operating a single rotation.

At least its going 2x daily. Hopefully one or both of the flights ends up without to mainline.

Quoting laca773 (Reply 95):
AS offers fresh BOB meals on their Southern California-SEA flights.

I would say very little chance of DL doing this.



yep.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 97, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9168 times:

I missed this.

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 89):
why not send A 757 to KOA??

Delta has 1x daily LAX-KOA

DL1299 LAX KOA 1450 1722 75V D
DL1298 KOA LAX 2050 0506 75V D +1

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 89):
Thanks Deltal1011man for the info

Welcome   

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 89):
the only thing that irritates me is the LAX-GDL flights in the summer it looks like it goes double daily,One flight is on a 757-200 AM doesn't even do that to GDL,

the 757 flight only runs for 2 months then LAX-GDL goes back to 1x daily 320.



yep.
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25255 posts, RR: 85
Reply 98, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 9132 times:
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Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 78):
AFAIK if DL/VA operated a AKL-US flight it would be covered under the JV.

If it is a JV, wouldn't it need approval from the NZ authorities, as Qantas/Emirates had to get?

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlinesydscott From Australia, joined Oct 2003, 3064 posts, RR: 19
Reply 99, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 9052 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 98):
If it is a JV, wouldn't it need approval from the NZ authorities, as Qantas/Emirates had to get?

Yes. At the moment, New Zealand was not a party to the approval of the JV so an application would need to be made to the NZ Commerce Commission to cover it.

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 64):
NZ wants VA to make money first and formost. And IMO there is room for DL on LAX-AKL

AF/KL feeds traffic onto 3K out of Singapore and Jetstar Australia has a handy little domestic network within New Zealand that DL could feed off if it wanted connections. And JQ is one of the few LCC's in Asia that is geared up to do it. So there is a way for DL to have the best of both worlds in Australia with its VA Partnership and in New Zealand with a JQ one. Now if AA was to start AKL-LAX or AKL-DFW, there would be a grand old fight over that, but I'm sure QF/JQ would be more than happy to take a stab at NZ and help DL for as long as AA isn't in the market.  


User currently offlinedlflynhayn From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 427 posts, RR: 1
Reply 100, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9058 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 97):

I know DL has 1 flight to KOA I'm based in LAX and I'm from Kona,I was just saying it would be cool if we saw an additional flight to KOA or just to Hawaii period flights to Hawaii are full,and with high school graduations I hope I make it home next week. I just think that 757 that we will be sending down to GDL will be a waste of a plane!!


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 101, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 9044 times:

Quoting dlflynhayn (Reply 100):

Oh roger.
Hopefully as delta keeps growing the 4th daily to HNL comes back. More capacity is added to OGG/LIH and KOA.



yep.
User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 102, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days ago) and read 8915 times:

Quoting iowaman (Reply 90):
Interesting find. DL has been doing well out of LAS, and has greatly expanded LAS-LAX offerings. WN and AS both serve LAS-SEA but DL may be able to squeeze out a couple daily CR9's on this route.

A CR9 between SEA and LAS wouldn't be a good fit. At that stage length and with Vegas fares, there aren't enough seats to sell on the Barbie jets to make it worthwhile. They could easily throw three mainlines between the two, which is what I predict they will do if they continue their Seattle expansion (which I also think they will do).


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 103, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 8771 times:
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Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 102):
A CR9 between SEA and LAS wouldn't be a good fit. At that stage length and with Vegas fares, there aren't enough seats to sell on the Barbie jets to make it worthwhile. They could easily throw three mainlines between the two, which is what I predict they will do if they continue their Seattle expansion (which I also think they will do).

I'm sure they would if they could but there's only so many gates available at the S-gates and B-gates. Since DL flies to more Asian cities than anywhere else along the west coast, they need to provide additional connection opportunities like SFO, LAS, etc. Especially if AS can't meet DL's expectations for accommodating DL pax.


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3462 posts, RR: 0
Reply 104, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 8681 times:

Its really hard to know what is going on behind the scenes.

DL needs AS at SEA I dont see why they would want to start a war. AS can just become cozier with AA at any minute the only thing they would loose is SLC connection power to the smaller markets in the Rocky Mountain Region/lower midwest. After a full US/AA merger access to PHX down the road would fill in alot those holes though. It just seems like DL needs AS right now more than AS needs them. I can't see why Delta would want to start a war. Maybe they have a gentlemens agreement in place of some type.


User currently onlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 105, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 8376 times:

Quoting FlyASAGuy2005 (Reply 91):
Even a daily CR7 or CR9 to start would be a good thing just to test the waters but i'm afraid heavy hitters like LAX-DFW, LAX-DEN, and LAX-ORD would/should come first.

DL used to fly LAX-DEN a while ago, then somehow found themselves the fifth wheel here after UA, (hub-to-hub), AA, F9 and WN (now market leader I believe). DL discontinued the route....... then DL announced that they would be flying LAX-DEN with 4 daily non-mainlines (to begin somewhere about 9 months later)...... but this was cancelled a couple of months before the service even started, and DL's LAX-DEN didn't quite make it off the ground on the second go-around. If DL were to attempt LAX-DEN, well...... maybe a couple of well-timed mainlines for connects could be done (even with UA, AA, F9 and WN) Attempting to begin with 4 dailies again, even on such a high-volume route as this, wouldn't be the smartest by DL at this time.

 


User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 106, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 8270 times:

How is LAX-BNA-LAX performing?

User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 107, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8225 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 96):
I agree with flyASA. I think it would work but IMO cities like AND CURRENT: Denver - International (DEN / KDEN), USA - Colorado">DEN,DFW,ORD,IAH,OKC,AND CURRENT: Austin - Bergstrom International (AFB) (AUS / KAUS), USA - Texas">AUS,SAT,STL,MKE,IAD etc. would all come first. Delta is really starting to run out of room, and flights like the places above are more needed than OMA right now.

Yeah was thinking the same thing, the only question becomes if DL can get better yields from OMA vs those others knowing there is no OMA-LAX nonstop competition vs all those others have lots of competition. I just took a peek and daily O/D between OMA AND LAX, ONT, BUR, SNA is 473. I assume this is plenty high to fill a single E175 and if timed right, appeal to higher yield business travelers.


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 108, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 8184 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 105):

You know that if this is what delta used for what routes they will or won't fly from LAX, they won't be flying anything but hubs?

It failed during th ERJ build up. At some point delta has to fly to cities like DEN,DFW,IAH,ORD and IAD if they ever want to have any chance in the corporate and business market.



yep.
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 109, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8094 times:
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Quoting Joeljack (Reply 107):

Yeah was thinking the same thing, the only question becomes if DL can get better yields from OMA vs those others knowing there is no OMA-LAX nonstop competition vs all those others have lots of competition. I just took a peek and daily O/D between OMA AND LAX, ONT, BUR, SNA is 473. I assume this is plenty high to fill a single E175 and if timed right, appeal to higher yield business travelers.

How did F9 do in this market when they flew it nonstop with E90s?


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 110, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 8045 times:

Quoting laca773 (Reply 109):

How did F9 do in this market when they flew it nonstop with E90s?

I think they did ok during the summer months then so-so during the winter. Remember, F9 had very little brand loyalty and no connecting traffic on either end which Delta would have both going from them.

Midwest express flew this route 2x daily for 10 years with DC-9's, then Expressjet flew OMA-ONT 2x daily as well as OMA-SAN at 2x daily which overlaps a little bit. Then Frontier flew it for 2 years again, most recently a year ago. All these over the past 20 years had no connecting traffic or large Alliance/ FF program behind them. I really think that if DL were to fly this, it would be quite successful comparatively to the others with the large brand loyalty in OMA and the large connecting traffic in LAX.


User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20640 posts, RR: 62
Reply 111, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days ago) and read 7998 times:

What the heck does Omaha have to do with LAX-PDX on DL? Please create a new thread if you want to discuss something outside the parameters of this thread. Thanks.


International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 112, posted (1 year 4 months 2 days ago) and read 7981 times:

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 107):
Yeah was thinking the same thing, the only question becomes if DL can get better yields from OMA vs those others knowing there is no OMA-LAX nonstop competition vs all those others have lots of competition. I just took a peek and daily O/D between OMA AND LAX, ONT, BUR, SNA is 473. I assume this is plenty high to fill a single E175 and if timed right, appeal to higher yield business travelers.

Looking at it that way, yes although i'm not sure about an E-Jet. It will most likely come down to what a/c is available for the time they go with. Whether it be a CR7/9 or 170/175. Who knows, they may field the route and find that a 319 rotation best fits what they need as far as a/c availability and timing (we can wish).



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3256 posts, RR: 5
Reply 113, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7399 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 108):
You know that if this is what delta used for what routes they will or won't fly from LAX, they won't be flying anything but hubs?

With that mind set, I guess PDX-LAX won't meet that criteria, and the route will once again be abandoned by DL.

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 111):
What the heck does Omaha have to do with LAX-PDX on DL? Please create a new thread if you want to discuss something outside the parameters of this thread. Thanks

Thanks for saying something, it bothers me too .... but I'm really the last person who should point fingers for that, therefore I am glad you said it, so I would not be a hypocrite in public.   

Honestly I think DL will try and grow the West further, if these flights take off. I am not suggesting they will be offering SAN-YVR or PHX-GEG as the SLC hub works for these aforementioned city pairs. I can see DL pursue LAX-PSC, LAX-BOI, SEA-GEG with CR9's and if DL really wanted to get at QX/AS, they would start like 6 daily departures a day between SEA-PDX, and take passengers from AS's I-5 shuttle's they run dozens each day.

If DL really wants to take passengers from AS in SEA, they would have to also make a big play for the PDX market too, or too many loyal AS'ers here would keep DL from going forward.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 114, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 7068 times:
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Quoting RWA380 (Reply 113):
I can see DL pursue LAX-PSC, LAX-BOI, SEA-GEG with CR9's and if DL really wanted to get at QX/AS, they would start like 6 daily departures a day between SEA-PDX, and take passengers from AS's I-5 shuttle's they run dozens each day.If DL really wants to take passengers from AS in SEA, they would have to also make a big play for the PDX market too, or too many loyal AS'ers here would keep DL from going forward.

Using what gates???? DL really doesn't have a whole lot of gate space, especially from the early AM through mid PM. AS pretty much the north half of the airport taken over, with the exception of B6 and AA, who recently moved to the D-concourse.

F9, VX and one other moved from the A-concourse to the B-concourse. HA moved from the A-concourse to the S-concourse. UA moved from both the B-concourse and the N-concourse to the A-concourse. Lastly, AS has taken over the rest of the N-concourse while still occupying all of C-concourse, about half of the D-concourse and part of the B-concourse.

There's really no more gate space at SEA for a massive DL uprising, unless they are going to build up without international connections. I suppose they could use the evening timeframe to connect to HND and PEK, but there's also all of those RON's and redeyes.

Conflict or not, DL is still reliant on AS to give them a significant amount of feeder traffic for their international flights out of SEA.


User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 115, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6973 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 113):
Honestly I think DL will try and grow the West further, if these flights take off. I am not suggesting they will be offering SAN-YVR or PHX-GEG as the SLC hub works for these aforementioned city pairs. I can see DL pursue LAX-PSC, LAX-BOI, SEA-GEG with CR9's and if DL really wanted to get at QX/AS, they would start like 6 daily departures a day between SEA-PDX, and take passengers from AS's I-5 shuttle's they run dozens each day.

If DL really wants to take passengers from AS in SEA, they would have to also make a big play for the PDX market too, or too many loyal AS'ers here would keep DL from going forward.

What makes you think that AS can't hold their own against DL in SEA/PDX. They can and they will. DL is a giant but they aren't able to start any market and have instant success - believe it or not, not everyone wants to fly on them.


User currently offlineJoeljack From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 937 posts, RR: 0
Reply 116, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 6992 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 113):
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 111):
What the heck does Omaha have to do with LAX-PDX on DL? Please create a new thread if you want to discuss something outside the parameters of this thread. Thanks

Thanks for saying something, it bothers me too .... but I'm really the last person who should point fingers for that, therefore I am glad you said it, so I would not be a hypocrite in public.

This thread wasn't only LAX-PDX...it was having to do with many LAX changes so that is why i brought it up on this thread...it related to LAX-MCI and this thread was LAX-MCI. Oh well...nevermind.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3256 posts, RR: 5
Reply 117, posted (1 year 3 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 6724 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 115):
What makes you think that AS can't hold their own against DL in SEA/PDX. They can and they will. DL is a giant but they aren't able to start any market and have instant success - believe it or not, not everyone wants to fly on them.

You got the wrong impression, I was suggesting if DL wanted to create an all out war with AS, they could hit AS in the bread basket by showing up on the PDX-SEA route. I fully would expect for AS/QX to go back to every half hour flights, and drop the fares to keep market share. AS would hold it's own and then some against DL in the SEA-PDX-SEA market.



AA AC AQ AS BD BN CO CS DL EA EZ HA HP KL KN MP MW NK NW OO OZ PA PS QX RC RH RW SA TG TW UA US VS WA WC WN
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 118, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6317 times:

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 116):

this is true. This thread is basically turning into the weekly change thread.

changes I see this week.
1) LAX-OAK is going to 7x daily. All flights op by OO
2) LAX-IND is going daily and to a morning LA dept.
3) LAX-SJC is getting an extra flight also.
4) LAX-SFO is going to an hourly shuttle. Starts at 7am and goes to 9pm. All flights will be flown by Compass Ejets.

these changes should now push Delta past 115 daily flights.



yep.
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 119, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6248 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 118):
4) LAX-SFO is going to an hourly shuttle. Starts at 7am and goes to 9pm. All flights will be flown by Compass Ejets.

Now that is interesting, as its primarily always been CR7/9 aircraft with the occasional mainline.


User currently onlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 3074 posts, RR: 7
Reply 120, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6259 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 115):
What makes you think that AS can't hold their own against DL in SEA/PDX. They can and they will. DL is a giant but they aren't able to start any market and have instant success - believe it or not, not everyone wants to fly on them.

Agreed. Their very such Frequent Flier redemption "bait and switch" is enough to make me stay away from DL when possible. I always pick AS first, then AA second when given a choice.

We've all discussed how AS has very successfully built up a brand loyalty in the Northwest. They've fought off WN in some markets and could with DL also. My advice to DL is do what they do best in the PNW (NRT, AMS, CDG, JFK, ATL, MSP and SLC, etc) and leave the local west coast flying to their code-share partner AS.


User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 121, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 6085 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 118):
this is true. This thread is basically turning into the weekly change thread.

changes I see this week.
1) LAX-OAK is going to 7x daily. All flights op by OO
2) LAX-IND is going daily and to a morning LA dept.
3) LAX-SJC is getting an extra flight also.
4) LAX-SFO is going to an hourly shuttle. Starts at 7am and goes to 9pm. All flights will be flown by Compass Ejets.

these changes should now push Delta past 115 daily flights.

I know they are investing in some T5 remodeling at LAX, but how far can DL push their operations at LAX without more infrastructure? I was at LAX T5 two weeks ago and it seemed packed, stretched to the limits.

Is LAX T5 this year's JFK T3?


User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 122, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 6063 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 119):

It is interesting. My guess is they are trying to add the best 76-seat product. Also could open up some mid-con opportunities with the better E75.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 120):
My advice to DL is do what they do best in the PNW (NRT, AMS, CDG, JFK, ATL, MSP and SLC, etc) and leave the local west coast flying to their code-share partner AS.

Good plan. As always you're looking at a dot of paint on a painted wall.
In other words you're telling Delta to give up Asia because you somehow think AS just fixes all of their problems. Why do you think Delta is even adding flights like this? to lose money? I have said it time and time again, to truly be successful to Asia they need a operation much like United has. A key hub(SFO for UA, SEA for DL) and a large presence/smallish hub in LA. "leaving" the flying to AS doesn't do this. They can't coordinate schedules, they are having to fight for inventory with AS, AA and all the other partners. It does nothing for Skyteam(or those that don't have a partnership with AS) and it does help them in the corporate market. Four corners of growth. (SEA/LAX/ATL/NYC)

edit to add, Airlines are already using AS against Delta. Delta is very lucky they got the HND slot, UA's argument was very valid and could mean later down the road it cost Delta opportunities. I am also willing to be UA is pitching the same thing in the corporate market.

Delta is going to expand in SEA and LAX. Its going to happen, period. One way or another. Its not an if but when.

Note, this doesn't mean that Delta is going to add some crazy 300-400 flight operation. Key markets, limited frequency.
Note part two, current Delta. Mergers could change this if something happens. (and I'm not talking about AS, just saying any merger Delta is in, if they are in one)

Quoting questions (Reply 121):
I know they are investing in some T5 remodeling at LAX, but how far can DL push their operations at LAX without more infrastructure? I was at LAX T5 two weeks ago and it seemed packed, stretched to the limits.

At some point they will have to do something. They have a temp deal to run some RJ opps from the pad over at the hangar but they will have to work something out with LAWA and get a RJ terminal and or work a deal with AS to use more gates at T6 and or work a deal with United for use of gates at T6.

Quoting questions (Reply 121):
Is LAX T5 this year's JFK T3?

huh?
Have you really been in T5? its not even comparable to T3 at JFK (hell or T3 at LAX)
Its getting to capacity, but is in so much better shape its not funny)

[Edited 2013-05-30 23:21:38]


yep.
User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 123, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 5992 times:
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Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 118):
this is true. This thread is basically turning into the weekly change thread.

changes I see this week.
1) LAX-OAK is going to 7x daily. All flights op by OO
2) LAX-IND is going daily and to a morning LA dept.
3) LAX-SJC is getting an extra flight also.
4) LAX-SFO is going to an hourly shuttle. Starts at 7am and goes to 9pm. All flights will be flown by Compass Ejets.

these changes should now push Delta past 115 daily flights.

It's nice to hear both SJC and OAK are being increased. Obviously the demand is there. I hope this works out for them. I'll be interested to see what UAEx does with these CRJ fights in the same markets and how long they will keep them around to PDX/SEA/OAK/SJC.

SFO will now be flown with E75s? They're definitely a much more popular a/c compared even to the next generation CR9s. I bet they are doing this for competitive reasons.

It will be interesting to see how well IND will do now operating daily and with a morning departure versus a redeye.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7591 posts, RR: 27
Reply 124, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 5855 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 122):
It is interesting. My guess is they are trying to add the best 76-seat product. Also could open up some mid-con opportunities with the better E75.

Yep, and MCI-LAX appears to be the bridge for the E75s for the LAX-SFO flights.


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 125, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 5698 times:
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Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 122):
In other words you're telling Delta to give up Asia because you somehow think AS just fixes all of their problems. Why do you think Delta is even adding flights like this? to lose money? I have said it time and time again, to truly be successful to Asia they need a operation much like United has. A key hub(SFO for UA, SEA for DL) and a large presence/smallish hub in LA. "leaving" the flying to AS doesn't do this. They can't coordinate schedules, they are having to fight for inventory with AS, AA and all the other partners. It does nothing for Skyteam(or those that don't have a partnership with AS) and it does help them in the corporate market. Four corners of growth. (SEA/LAX/ATL/NYC)

edit to add, Airlines are already using AS against Delta. Delta is very lucky they got the HND slot, UA's argument was very valid and could mean later down the road it cost Delta opportunities. I am also willing to be UA is pitching the same thing in the corporate market.

Delta is going to expand in SEA and LAX. Its going to happen, period. One way or another. Its not an if but when.

Note, this doesn't mean that Delta is going to add some crazy 300-400 flight operation. Key markets, limited frequency.
Note part two, current Delta. Mergers could change this if something happens. (and I'm not talking about AS, just saying any merger Delta is in, if they are in one)

You have some good points in your argument. There is no doubt that DL will increase service to/from SEA. They're already planning on increasing frequency on SEA-LAX as of September, plus the introduction of service to LAS and ANC.

Today, the majority of DL's ops to both Asia and Europe is during late morning and afternoon. Where is DL going to get space???? SEA doesn't have a whole lot of gate space left for too much more expansion.

AS does provide DL with plenty of feed at SEA.


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 126, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5500 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 115):
What makes you think that AS can't hold their own against DL in SEA/PDX. They can and they will.

Agreed. There is room in the market and if if the competition gets too heated (and DL remains committed), I predict United will blink first and pull out of the PNW to LAX market.


User currently offlinemia305 From United States of America, joined Mar 2013, 319 posts, RR: 0
Reply 127, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 5507 times:

Would DL consider operating LAX-AMS or LAX-CDG? Or is that pretty well
covered by AF and KLM.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 128, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5371 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 115):
What makes you think that AS can't hold their own against DL in SEA/PDX. They can and they will.

Who says DL is trying to fight AS? People seem to forget the big PR ceremony the two airlines have had a few months ago, and AS then started to add more flights to DL hubs and vice versa. I don't see why DL would all of the sudden turn on AS... they have been good partners.

That is not to say DL will never make a move on SEA and fight AS, but in the near to mid future, I don't see it happening. It would be stupid and probably less effective than the AS partnership they have now. If they want to be successful I would think they would have to build brand and loyalty in SEA more... people love AS



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlineLDVAviation From United States of America, joined Dec 2008, 1069 posts, RR: 4
Reply 129, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 5337 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 122):
At some point they will have to do something. They have a temp deal to run some RJ opps from the pad over at the hangar but they will have to work something out with LAWA and get a RJ terminal and or work a deal with AS to use more gates at T6 and or work a deal with United for use of gates at T6.

A new RJ terminal just for Delta? There is no stipulation in Delta's current rental contract for such future considerations. As you may know, there is a gate cap at LAX and LAWA is hoarding the remaining amount for the common use facilities it plans to build (i.e., the MSC). The only exception to this is the AA RJ terminal situation because the gate count for that operation preexisted the cap.

There are also hindrances to expanding at T6. Why would United allow Delta to expand? By contract, the gate requirements of AS take precedence. Even AA has a right of first refusal on new gates on the south side.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3256 posts, RR: 5
Reply 130, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 5145 times:

Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 126):
Agreed. There is room in the market and if if the competition gets too heated (and DL remains committed), I predict United will blink first and pull out of the PNW to LAX market

IMO, UA gave up a very long time ago. I remember flying UA DC-8-70, 727-200, 737-300/200 aircraft between PDX & LAX in the past.



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User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 131, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5011 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 122):
Delta is going to expand in SEA and LAX. Its going to happen, period. One way or another. Its not an if but when.

Delta really doesn't have much more room for growth in SEA. The idea of expanding there is great but they're just about out of room and there isn't any more for them to take. They don't have the kind of pull at SEA as they do at, say, NYC, ATL or (possibly?) LAX. AS is dominant at SEA and I doubt they're going to give DL any of their space. To say that DL WILL expand at SEA is all well and good but they have to places to park planes or it can't happen.


User currently offlineASFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1172 posts, RR: 3
Reply 132, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 5005 times:

Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 128):
Who says DL is trying to fight AS? People seem to forget the big PR ceremony the two airlines have had a few months ago, and AS then started to add more flights to DL hubs and vice versa. I don't see why DL would all of the sudden turn on AS... they have been good partners.

Yeah, AS didn't "add more flight to DL hubs". AS added twice daily service to SLC. So, maybe "add flights to a DL hub" would be more appropriate. Beyond that, AS has maintained twice daily service to ATL and MSP for a while now. They don't fly to JFK, DTW, CVG or MEM (if you can even call those hubs anymore). As for the "big PR ceremony" - I still don't understand what that was about. It was much ado about nothing really. It didn't announce anything new - or ground breaking. I was totally confused about that and still am.


User currently offlineDeltaMD90 From United States of America, joined Apr 2008, 7908 posts, RR: 51
Reply 133, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 4869 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 132):
As for the "big PR ceremony" - I still don't understand what that was about. It was much ado about nothing really. It didn't announce anything new - or ground breaking. I was totally confused about that and still am.

Well yeah I was a little confused on the intent too, but I doubt they'd set it up knowing they'd be going at each other's throats. Lately, every time DL added a SEA flight people have been losing their minds and declaring they're going to war with AS. I'm not saying that's impossible, but the way some people react, it sounds like the sky is falling and it's a definite fact



Ironically I have never flown a Delta MD-90 :)
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 134, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4805 times:

Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 131):
Delta really doesn't have much more room for growth in SEA. The idea of expanding there is great but they're just about out of room and there isn't any more for them to take. They don't have the kind of pull at SEA as they do at, say, NYC, ATL or (possibly?) LAX. AS is dominant at SEA and I doubt they're going to give DL any of their space. To say that DL WILL expand at SEA is all well and good but they have to places to park planes or it can't happen.

Wow. So they're done doing what they set out to do at SEA?


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 135, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4835 times:
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Quoting DeltaMD90 (Reply 133):
Well yeah I was a little confused on the intent too, but I doubt they'd set it up knowing they'd be going at each other's throats. Lately, every time DL added a SEA flight people have been losing their minds and declaring they're going to war with AS. I'm not saying that's impossible, but the way some people react, it sounds like the sky is falling and it's a definite fact

DL's domestic expansion at SEA has been minimal. With the exception of LAX, I hardly see DL's 1X daily seasonal SEA-ANC and 1X daily SEA-LAS flights can be considered putting AS in jeopardy. You should notice that those markets DL has decided to open are the some of the most popular routes for AS. AS has their own passenger following and the amount of available capacity may not be satisfactory to DL. Therefore, they are bringing their own metal.

I can't see DL really GOING AFTER AS unless we start seeing flights connecting SEA with places like OAK, SJC, GEG, SNA, SAN, etc.

I'm still hoping DL brings a few 717's out west.


User currently offlinelaca773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4018 posts, RR: 2
Reply 136, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4464 times:
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Quoting BigGSFO (Reply 126):

Agreed. There is room in the market and if if the competition gets too heated (and DL remains committed), I predict United will blink first and pull out of the PNW to LAX market.

I've been saying this since they downgauged both PDX & SEA to UAEx. It's time for them to eliminate the service in both markets as well as a few others from LAX which are operated by UAEx.

Quoting mia305 (Reply 127):
Would DL consider operating LAX-AMS or LAX-CDG? Or is that pretty well
covered by AF and KLM.

KL & AF have both markets adequately covered and I don't see that ever changing.


User currently offlinesmoot4208 From United States of America, joined Jan 2010, 1307 posts, RR: 11
Reply 137, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4451 times:

On top of BZE, last week DL/Skywest applied for LAX-BJX beginning on 12/19. Looks like the aircraft to be used will be a CR7/CR9

http://airlineinfo.com/Sites/DailyAi...e/web-content/ost15/ost053013.html


User currently offlinebobnwa From United States of America, joined Dec 2000, 6471 posts, RR: 9
Reply 138, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4303 times:

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 122):
It is interesting. My guess is they are trying to add the best 76-seat product. Also could open up some mid-con opportunities with the better E75.

I wish they would increase the Better E75 product but all the recent orders have been for the Bombardier product which I consider an inferior product. UA seems to be adding dozens of E75 products


User currently offlinewedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 139, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4040 times:
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Where is BJX?

Filler

Filler


User currently offlineBigGSFO From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2924 posts, RR: 6
Reply 140, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4005 times:

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 139):
Where is BJX?

Leon, Mexico.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=bjx


User currently offlineavi8 From United States of America, joined Jun 2011, 661 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3872 times:
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Where is Delta getting all these airplanes from?


avi8
User currently offlinequestions From Australia, joined Sep 2011, 779 posts, RR: 1
Reply 142, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3820 times:

RE terminal 5... as you're walking through the concourse, from security and towards the end, on the right, maybe half way down, there looks like a construction wall. Is this part of the renovation? What is it?

User currently offlineFlyASAGuy2005 From United States of America, joined Sep 2007, 7004 posts, RR: 11
Reply 143, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 3800 times:

Quoting avi8 (Reply 141):
Where is Delta getting all these airplanes from?



Increased utilization. Doesn't take much to shuffle around the way you've been routing a/c to add a few more legs into the system.



What gets measured gets done.
User currently offlineDeltal1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9424 posts, RR: 14
Reply 144, posted (1 year 3 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3544 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 124):

and could be more routes added. They had E75s on SEA also but changed it to CR9s this week.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 125):

Today, the majority of DL's ops to both Asia and Europe is during late morning and afternoon. Where is DL going to get space???? SEA doesn't have a whole lot of gate space left for too much more expansion.

Thats is the issue.
but its not like Delta is going to ass 500 flights in SEA. Generally AS will be feed, 1-3x to SFO,SAN,LAS,PDX,SJC,DEN,PHX wouldn't really be shocking though.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 129):

A new RJ terminal just for Delta? There is no stipulation in Delta's current rental contract for such future considerations. As you may know, there is a gate cap at LAX and LAWA is hoarding the remaining amount for the common use facilities it plans to build (i.e., the MSC). The only exception to this is the AA RJ terminal situation because the gate count for that operation preexisted the cap.

ah yes, LAWA is going to stop Delta from growing.
If Delta wants to pay for a small RJ terminal(or adding the three gates back to T5) I'll put whatever you want on it that LAWA lets it happen.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 129):
Why would United allow Delta to expand?

because UA doesn't want to pay lease payments on empty gates? With UA's current size I could see them leasing 61/63 back to Delta.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 129):
By contract, the gate requirements of AS take precedence

no kidding?  
DL has the right to use all of AS's gates when AS isn't using them.......and its not like AS is growing in LA.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 129):
Even AA has a right of first refusal on new gates on the south side.

lol. Maybe you can keep saying this?
Oh and not true. UA or AS can sublease gates to Delta......and your beloved(in a creepy way) American can't do jack diddley dog shit about it.  
Quoting ASFlyer (Reply 131):

Which is an issue. Its not like Delta is going to add a bunch of flights, but limited flying is coming.

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 138):

And AA is adding E75s.
Hopefully with the 30 aircraft cap space in the Scope agreement with DALPA OO will add 30 E-jets. Not holding my breath on that though.

Quoting avi8 (Reply 141):

higher utilization mostly.



yep.
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