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What's Going On In CLE - Part 3  
User currently offlineiowaman From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4403 posts, RR: 6
Posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 26043 times:
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Due to length of part 2, please continue the discussion here. Previous thread: What's Going On In CLE - Part 2 (by MasseyBrown Jan 24 2013 in Civil Aviation)


Next flights: WN DSM-LAS-PHX, US PHX-SJD.
249 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 1, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 25797 times:

View from the new control tower, recently topped out:


View from the new control tower.


[Edited 2013-05-14 08:29:00]


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 841 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 25746 times:
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Wow, I knew it was tall based on my drive bys to FedEx but I did not realize it had such a great perspective on the region. Cool shot!


Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlinecle757 From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 1137 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 21 hours ago) and read 25550 times:

UA is still playing with CLE summer schedule, some days they have 5 LAX (even the 757-300 shows up sometimes) sometimes 2 SEA ( sometimes a 757)..probably others,


Cleveland the best location in the Nation
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 4, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 25469 times:

Quoting cle757 (Reply 3):
UA is still playing with CLE summer schedule,

As you note, CLE-LAX on June 6th shows a 753, three 739s, and a 738. (The 753 is a 6 A.M. departure; nobody's connecting on that one.) Maybe it's related to a couple of major movies being filmed in CLE in May-June.

I wonder if they're going to blow up East 9th Street again.   



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8269 posts, RR: 23
Reply 5, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 25429 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
I wonder if they're going to blow up East 9th Street again.

How could you tell if they did?



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1045 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 4 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 25418 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
I wonder if they're going to blow up East 9th Street again.

Looks like the near west side shoreway mostly. Impressive impact if that is what they added a 200+ pax 753 for. Flying on the day after on a 739 CLE>LAX.

Updated: Cleveland’s role in Marvel Studios’ Captain America:The Winter Soldier bring
important economic benefits and some temporary alternate traffic patterns too.

CLEVELAND – This spring, Cleveland will once again be buzzing with excitement as it hosts super heroes and film crews. Partnering with the production company and the Greater Cleveland Film Commission on this film will help position Cleveland to become a location destination for the movie industry and in turn, support local businesses and create jobs for Cleveland area residents. But transforming the streets into a movie set will require some temporatry road closures and alternate routes for motorists and pedestrians from May 18 through June 28, 2013 (weather permitting).

http://clevelandfilm.com/blog2/?cat=3


User currently offlineAntoniemey From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1572 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 25284 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
I wonder if they're going to blow up East 9th Street again.

They probably will.

Quoting N766UA (Reply 5):
How could you tell if they did?

E 9th doesn't (usually) have rubble and burning cars strewn across it.



Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
User currently offlinefreeze3192 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 164 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 25235 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 1):

Can you tell me what is on top of the tower? It looks like there is a Christmas tree sitting at the top.



"A passenger bets his life that his pilot is a worthy heir to an ancient tradition of excellence and professionalism."
User currently offlinefun2fly From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 1045 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 10 hours ago) and read 25159 times:

When will the new tower be in service? What will they do with the old tower?

I know I have brought this up before, but the TSA security areas are way undersized for peak times. Monday was unbelievable at all 3 points at 7:30AM. 30 min wait in the priority line at B. Somehow, they need to add some space to those areas to process more people faster. There is some space above the taxi stand/baggage claim area in the C area at least. If CLE is really going to see 10+% more people in 2013 as it has in Q1, summer is going to be a nightmare.

I see temporary construction offices being setup near the long term parking garage. Any idea what project those are for?


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 25118 times:

Quoting freeze3192 (Reply 8):
Can you tell me what is on top of the tower? It looks like there is a Christmas tree sitting at the top.

Wish I could. I live in Washington. Just guessing - it might be elevator machinery or antenna foundations.

TSA lines: Bad, but good news. It means O&D is up. Early morning seems to be a bad time at lots of hub airports. A surge of O&D comes in the AM, later times of day have a higher percentage of connecting traffic, which (obviously) doesn't go through the TSA lines.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2004 posts, RR: 13
Reply 11, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 25111 times:

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 9):
When will the new tower be in service? What will they do with the old tower?

Maybe they can dismantle that tower and move it to TOL since we've been waiting for one for what seems 25 years now....


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 25105 times:

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 11):
Maybe they can dismantle that tower and move it to TOL since we've been waiting for one for what seems 25 years now....

Bad news. The CLE TRACON will expand to include Youngstown, Akron/Canton, and Mansfield airports. I understand that Toledo will (at some point) be consolidated with DTW TRACON. If you're looking solely at a radar scope, it doesn't matter where the scope is located.

Edit: I just checked and TOL will be consolidated with CLE, not DTW. Tower and TRACON (colocated but not the same thing) are scheduled to open in Fall, 2014.

[Edited 2013-05-17 08:24:59]


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8269 posts, RR: 23
Reply 13, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 25069 times:

Quoting Antoniemey (Reply 7):
E 9th doesn't (usually) have rubble and burning cars strewn across it.

You're dead wrong about the rubble part, it always has rubble, but I'll give you burning cars.

LOL the city's got one road and it's a freakin' disaster.



This Website Censors Me
User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 14, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 25054 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 12):
Bad news. The CLE TRACON will expand to include Youngstown, Akron/Canton, and Mansfield airports. I understand that Toledo will (at some point) be consolidated with DTW TRACON. If you're looking solely at a radar scope, it doesn't matter where the scope is located.

Edit: I just checked and TOL will be consolidated with CLE, not DTW. Tower and TRACON (colocated but not the same thing) are scheduled to open in Fall, 2014.

Post a link to the source? I know they were talking about it before but the plan was scrubbed. Want to make sure its an actual current plan and not the old one you are still referencing.


User currently offlineflyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2004 posts, RR: 13
Reply 15, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 24985 times:

First, I was speaking of the tower only...not the TRACON for TOL...A new tower is needed as the current one still can't see the end of runway 7. Second, while it is scheduled to do what you are saying to, doesn't mean it is going to happen. Logistics still have to be figured out with the 180th ANG on ready alert status. Right now, they have the ability to be off the ground in minimal time and cannot wait on a release. This has been brought up numerous times and to my knowledge (very recent), nothing has changed or worked out. Also, CLE doesn't make sense, it should go to DTW as we handle most overflights into Detroit satellites. Then again, FAA isn't ever really about making sense lately.

User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 24972 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 1):
View from the new control tower, recently topped out:

Hey..... I'm not from Cleveland, but have traveled through there a few times, both by air and car, and I guess that there's some bashing of the city going on (what's a city without some bashing, eh?) .... but I find that with that picture of the skyline..... I have to say that I've found that Cleveland does have a sense of majesty....... and I've only experienced a great city there during my travels there. Nice shot of the city.......

Quoting flyinryan99 (Reply 15):
I was speaking of the tower only

I think that control towers at airports are probably pretty easily done, and are (just my thinking out loud here) among the lesser expensive items for an airport to replace. I think that it's important for a control tower at an airport be able to see all of the airfield. I've read that even DEN is going to eventually be replacing (sometime in a long-term future) their existing control tower (already among the tallest and newest) at some point as well as more runways and concourses will be added with time.

 


User currently offlineouboy79 From United States of America, joined Nov 2001, 4599 posts, RR: 22
Reply 17, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 24947 times:

Quoting point2point (Reply 16):
I think that control towers at airports are probably pretty easily done, and are (just my thinking out loud here) among the lesser expensive items for an airport to replace. I think that it's important for a control tower at an airport be able to see all of the airfield. I've read that even DEN is going to eventually be replacing (sometime in a long-term future) their existing control tower (already among the tallest and newest) at some point as well as more runways and concourses will be added with time.

If memory serves correctly, TOL has been trying for about 20 years to get the tower replaced. The Port Authority even proposed paying for it themselves and leasing it to the FAA and it was rejected. So not sure how easy it actually is suppose to be. LOL


User currently offlinepoint2point From United States of America, joined Mar 2010, 2758 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (1 year 4 months 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 24911 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 17):
So not sure how easy it actually is suppose to be. LOL

I guess in this sense with TOL you are correct..... but airport towers..... really? How difficult or costly can it be to build one? The structure itself is really nothing, just some elevation and windows on top and a way to get up there ...... and then the avionics are needed anyway, so.....???


 


User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (1 year 4 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 24822 times:

Quoting ouboy79 (Reply 14):
Post a link to the source? I know they were talking about it before but the plan was scrubbed.

The FAA's Tracon Consolidation Plan was "delayed" because of concerns regarding the NYC area. This plan included CLE Tracon takng over all Ohio airports north of Columbus and Columbus taking everything in the south, except CVG, which isn't in Ohio. Despite the Plan's delay, new tracon construction was approved for Cleveland and Kalamazoo; both facilities are sized to support the consolidation. My understanding from knowledgeable people is that if the revised plan for NYC gets a green light (from Congress among others) there will be procedural tests in the new CLE and AZO Tracons. Effectively, the consolidation for those two locations will be implemented. The new NYC plan is due for public release sometime this month.

Please excuse the weasel-wording 'knowledgeable people'. The CLE consolidation is not a done deal, but it's close. Plan adjustments are always possible. It's also worth noting that previous FAA tracon consolidations in NoCal and Georgia were financial disasters. They think they have fixed it.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5438 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 24626 times:

Thursday UA actually scheduled a widebody on IAH-CLE-IAH. It was a 762 subbing for a what is a 735 most days. I don't know if the 762 was the only spare available or if there was some extraordinary load that required it, nevertheless it came and went on schedule.


I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinegreenair727 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 568 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 24566 times:

^ was it full (in at least one direction)?

User currently offlinembm3 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 841 posts, RR: 1
Reply 22, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 24526 times:
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Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 20):

Thursday UA actually scheduled a widebody on IAH-CLE-IAH. It was a 762 subbing for a what is a 735 most days. I don't know if the 762 was the only spare available or if there was some extraordinary load that required it, nevertheless it came and went on schedule.

Me thinks it has to do with the two movies filming in town at the moment.



Let Me Tell You, Landing A 772ER Is Harder Than It Looks!
User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 676 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 24475 times:

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 4):
I wonder if they're going to blow up East 9th street again.

Of note on our last trip through downtown, we counted "zero" people dressed in suits and ties from Public Square to East 9th via Euclid. It was somewhat reminiscent when Chevy Chase and his family in "Vacation" ended up on the wrong side of town and he rolled down the window and quipped, "we're not from around here. "

Interestingly during my stay on the 9th floor of the Sheraton Hopkins, I counted five United mainline aircraft along the C Concourse and two mainline aircraft that RON at the far side of the banjo-wing; a total of six various series Boeing 737s and an A320. The morning departure bank made Hopkins briefly resemble an earlier age before regional jets became the dominant aircraft. And those heavily loaded CFM-equipped Boeing 739s bound for the west coast do use all but a thousand feet of runway 24L-6R.

The new taller and repositioned control tower looks impressive!

[Edited 2013-05-20 09:30:03]

User currently offlineN766UA From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 8269 posts, RR: 23
Reply 24, posted (1 year 4 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 24392 times:

Quoting mbm3 (Reply 22):
Me thinks it has to do with the two movies filming in town at the moment.

No, it was just outsized COMAT that had to be transported up from Houston. Nothing to do with movies.

Quoting Highflier92660 (Reply 23):
Of note on our last trip through downtown, we counted "zero" people dressed in suits and ties from Public Square to East 9th via Euclid.

That's Cleveland! I used to work downtown, and it was not uncommon for me to encounter, during my 3 block walk to the building, exactly ZERO other people. At 830AM! Such a weird place.

[Edited 2013-05-20 12:48:43]


This Website Censors Me
25 MasseyBrown : Thanks for the compliment, Highflier. Maybe I should remind people that I have a little bit of government access but NO inside information from any ai
26 joeman : With a 96.3% occupancy rate for residential and just below 80% for office after a major corporation loss to suburbs, not too worried since my wife re
27 Post contains links joeman : Try again: http://www.crainscleveland.com/article/20130425/FREE/130429883
28 MasseyBrown : Summer UA schedule shows a morning Q400 to MCI, replacing an ERJ. It adds about a half hour to a two hour trip. I wonder if the equipment choice was t
29 fun2fly : That's a long time in prop! The UA schedulers are having fun this summer. I know we have talked a lot about UA putting ER170 on the CLE>IAH route
30 greenair727 : ^ Could it be the long-awaited new FIS?
31 swacle : I have not been able to find plans online, but the construction equipment in long term parking is for parking "upgrades." As I understand it, the emp
32 fun2fly : A while back, the Sheraton was to be bought by CLE and also torn town w/a big long term lot replacing both structures. Not sure if that ever went thr
33 Highflier92660 : I had the opportunity of staying at the Sheraton Hopkins during part of my last CLE visit a few weeks back. When I inquired about the possibility of
34 MasseyBrown : A helpful hint from somebody who knows told me the Q400 on the morning CLE-MCI is a maintenance rotation, getting the IAD/EWR based Q400s to their mai
35 Post contains links fun2fly : Garage update: http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...e_long-term_ga.html#incart_m-rpt-2
36 Highflier92660 : That airport parking article in the PD contains an embarrassment of riches; a "temporary" parking structure still going strong in its fifth decade of
37 fun2fly : Everyone on Snow Rd. rejoices as their rates can go up also. This solution is a significant disappointment for CLE. They requested a replacement gara
38 steeler83 : I don't care what anyone thinks. IMO, that is a huge middle finger to the residents of CLE, especially if they wish to go to Chicago! Hub-to-hub flyi
39 ncflyer : Yep, more middle fingers: no international service, no talk of it. Severe under capacity to major business centers leading to a hidden tax on all Clev
40 steeler83 : Considering how UA is treating CLE, I'd say UA can go screw itself. Top business markets need capacity, especially business/first class capacity. CRJ
41 flight152 : So just because UA in some cases doesn't offer enough capacity and first class seats for your liking UA should go "screw" themselves? I'm pretty sure
42 joeman : Maybe better than nothing at all. The current level of service coupled with the numerous complaints of price gouging detailed above and in thread 1 a
43 MasseyBrown : To be fair to UA, they are not picking on CLE. Or maybe it would be better said: they are not picking ONLY on CLE. Their fleet is a mess with a zillio
44 fun2fly : Or provide consistent service with soooo many regional carriers it also makes it hard to provide service with swaps, a/c, crew, etc. One good thing a
45 steeler83 : As someone who watched a certain airline dismantle a hub at his hometown, yes. By "screwing" itself, I mean dropping the hub. Besides, for a while th
46 Post contains links fun2fly : CLE has about half the spots of PIT, CMH, and IND per the article below. Lots of lost revenue. http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...ncart_river_defa
47 STT757 : EWR-ORD is 16 daily, 5 of those are 70 seat ERJ-170s. The rest are a combination of A319s, A320s, 737s and 757s. I think those ERJ-170s are repositio
48 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Conversely, I wonder if those airports are over-supplied with parking. Just a thought. My guess is the airport is trying to avoid those capital expen
49 N766UA : CLE-AUS starts in September with a CR7. A new route and it's NOT an ERJ!
50 Post contains images steeler83 : Hmm... the way Fun2Fly was wording it, he made it look like UA was running a ton of ERJs on that route. Thanks for indicating otherwise! I guess at t
51 STT757 : EWR-ORD July 12, 2013 3 A319, 2 A320, 3 73G, 1 738, 1 739, 2 757, 5 ERJ-170.
52 MasseyBrown : On August 27th AA will convert two of its CLE-DFW flights to brand new A319's and Sep 16 the third and last MD-80 goes. Edit: This info is based on AA
53 MasseyBrown : Lessons for CLE in MEM: 1. Cuts costs. 2. Get UA to commit to int'l service. Neither UA, DL, nor AA will operate a hub without international routes. H
54 mbm3 : I remain optimistic about getting a new FIS facility and know we are not going to get TATL service from UA until we replace that embarrassment in Term
55 Sligo : What work are they doing now over in A that has caused the US gates to be cordoned off?
56 greenair727 : Massey---and I think I've mentioned this before based on something else you had written--if you have any influence or connections with the decisions m
57 MasseyBrown : I don't.
58 greenair727 : ^perhaps write anyway--its sound advice!
59 MasseyBrown : Probably no need, I'd bet Smith has thought of all this and more. He keeps a low profile but seems like a realist.
60 greenair727 : ^except for the fact that he's been there quite a while and no new FIS has been built despite it being perhaps the single-most important need for the
61 greenair727 : UA gave DEN a 787 route to NRT, which started this week. CLE is a stronger market than DEN for Asia, yet UA chose DEN. I hope the CLE marketing folks
62 cle757 : At this point UA has no interest in CLE, so I think the city needs to get a carrier like AA,BA, or even DL to start some international service.
63 fun2fly : Glad you did, excellent post. What about the Greater Cleveland Partnership? They are the ones supporting Unitedforthehub.com. Surely they have the ab
64 MasseyBrown : We don't know what UA has been telling the city in confidence. Perhaps the city already knows UA's long-term plans - meaning either 1) they're please
65 greenair727 : ^the "Thomas" Administration---do you mean Jackson? if not, I'm missing something.... An entirely new FIS would cost more than $3-5M I would expect. I
66 Post contains links joeman : For right now, I'll take the angle that UA's interest in CLE is about control of a market with limited competition and in the top ten high airfare ma
67 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Yes, sorry ...
68 Post contains links and images greenair727 : Cleveland Port Control just put a RFQ on the street for the development of land on the harbor, north of Browns Stadium for some mixed use development
69 Post contains images steeler83 : Looks exciting! And I'm kinda pissed... Continental should take a lesson from this, because they are planning utter $hit around Heinz Field! 6-10 sto
70 N766UA : It's about FREAKING time!! Cleveland's single best feature is its waterfront, and it took until 2013 to finally realize that a giant gravel and aspha
71 steeler83 : Seriously! My wife and I were there last year and thought the same thing...
72 MasseyBrown : The lakefront has long been recognized as a valuable resource; however, there used to be a fixed 150-ton crane (the Buckeye Booster) on the west face
73 MasseyBrown : Correction: The 150-ton crane is still there, although I believe it was moved northward when Dock 28 and the western portion of the foreign trade zone
74 Post contains links MasseyBrown : http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...hold_its.html#incart_river_default UA announced they will hold their 2014 annual meeting in CLE. So maybe the h
75 greenair727 : ^you mean LHR/CDG/FRA/GRU/NRT/HKG/TLV/DXB? just drop the "a" in front of "CLE-" in your post above.[Edited 2013-06-22 02:45:33]
76 Post contains images greenair727 : Thanks for the details Massey. Below is a google earth screen shot of the area in question, Docks 28-32, with the crane on the left edge of the image
77 fun2fly : That is kind of a big deal for CLE. Certainly shows some commitment by UA to CLE. Might be interesting to see. Perhaps they can have all the brass th
78 Post contains links greenair727 : from Crain's Cleveland. This development is not directly about air service, but is relevant to Cleveland and air research/development (which could lea
79 MasseyBrown : Rumors about Silver (formerly Gulfstream) are circulating again. Apparently their EAS hub in Montana is in trouble. They lost two cities and that is m
80 flyinryan99 : Here come the Diversions from DTW. Couple of 764s should be on your ramp now. What about moving the flights from CLE to IAD? Wouldn't that make more s
81 MasseyBrown : Air Midwest (a Mesa subsid.) used to do that very thing. The EAS cities probably wouldn't mind; and since Silver now operates other flights at IAD, t
82 Post contains links MasseyBrown : http://billingsgazette.com/news/stat...8-39d2-5b27-8d16-889a9aa0829a.html Silver formally announced the end of their Billings hub. I'm not sure what t
83 fun2fly : On the inaugural CLE>TVC today looks like 4/50 seats available and the inaugural CLE>CHS shows full, both according to CO.com. So, looks like th
84 Post contains links crownvic : Why isnt anyone attending Airliners International Convention today??? its the last day of a three day show! Largest airline memorabilia show in the wo
85 swacle : Visit table 407 if you do visit!
86 MasseyBrown : Looking at the post-July 4th schedules UA has posted, it appears they are continuing to "slim" the 7:30 AM departure bank. Lots of spokes are gone. No
87 MasseyBrown : Not sure what to make of this, but the rumors of new Silver flying in "the CLE system", as Silver calls it, persist. I don't think Silver would be doi
88 cle757 : Probabyl DTW,TOL etc?
89 flyinryan99 : From what I've been told in the past, Silver has aircraft and is ready to start some cities around the CLE system, but they have not been able to wor
90 Post contains links greenair727 : FIS info. Perhaps this was known before, but I only came across it now. In the long term capital plan for CLE, the new FIS was placed in the 2016-2025
91 greenair727 : ^MODERATOR---something happened to my post above--and I am unable to "EDIT" to fix it. Could you please delete it. I've reposted a modified post here:
92 MasseyBrown : I hope you're right. (Gotta confess: I love little airlines and Beeches.) Notice, though, PIT also has high hopes for luring Silver away. The plan wa
93 fun2fly : $118m for FIS is an absurd amount - must have included the Terminal D connector or something else. All they need to do is put the facility under C4(?)
94 greenair727 : Yes. The plan had three phases. Phase 1 (2011-2015), Phase 2 (2016-2025), and Phase 3 (2026-2035).... So at least its in the first year of a new phas
95 fun2fly : Found the one w/the prices, thanks. For $118mm, sure looks like I'll never see it especially since it seems to be somewhat tied to the C expansion. L
96 MasseyBrown : . Four baggage carousels? Dulles isn't *that* much bigger. I'd guess a more realistic proposal could come in a lot cheaper. They should let an airline
97 Post contains links MasseyBrown : http://www.gosilver.com/about-silver...veland-network-as-it-exits-montana The plot thickens: "The DOT’s recent announcement, coupled with our decisi
98 greenair727 : ^ I would love to see those B1900's operating (under UA) some kind of shuttle service on BKL - LGA, though I know that that's not likely....
99 cle757 : Hmm.. What new flying could CLE get?..I would guess DTW would be one
100 fun2fly : Charleston, WV? Huntington, WV? South Bend, IN (I think it's currently dormant)? Evansville, IN Toledo, OH? London, ON?
101 greenair727 : ^DTW makes sense--its pretty crazy that UA has no service on this route currently. Its probably the biggest city within 1000 miles of CLE with no UA s
102 Post contains images MasseyBrown : If you look at UA's current schedule, there are service gaps at some of the spokes: no morning flight to CMH, no evening flight to BUF, etc. I think w
103 greenair727 : ^a new crew domicile--that's great. Not counting the Montana aircraft, how big is Silver in Cleveland right now?
104 Post contains images MasseyBrown : They're fun sized. Not big at all. They base their crews and aircraft in out-stations like Parkersburg, DuBois, etc. I believe only three aircraft ar
105 greenair727 : This was an interesting bit from enilria's weekly OAG update: AA ORD-TOL SEP 0>4 OCT 0>4 NOV 0>4 DEC 0>4 JAN 0>4 FEB 0>4 MAR 0>4
106 fun2fly : So, if they move the 4 a/c here, we'd see 13-14 flights per day? Hey, I guess take the volume any way you can get it. every 100k passengers help. How
107 flyinryan99 : This was a part of a filing error. They've been flying to TOL for a long time, the only network carrier to fly here. Actually, I wouldn't be surprise
108 flyguy89 : AA has actually been flying ORD-TOL for a number of years now, the above was just a reversal to fix the glitch that was filed last week which mistake
109 MasseyBrown : 100K pax annually (about the equivalent of a 738 round trip six days a week) isn't a lot, even against CLE's traffic base, but, as you say, every lit
110 cle757 : Maybe HPN?...does a Beech have the range?
111 N766UA : Yep, it's almost exactly the same as MHT-YYZ, which Air Georgian used to fly every day with 1900's. There's a good reason they dropped the route, tho
112 Post contains images Highflier92660 : Having flown aboard Silver Airways- a reincarnation of the former Gulfstream Airways- I can say that a flight aboard one of their Saab 340B-Plus' fro
113 greenair727 : On enilria's weekly OAG post, he posted a year over year comparison as follows: Quote: YOY Compare.... UA CLE-ALB MAR 3>4 UA CLE-AUS FEB 0>0.9 M
114 MasseyBrown : greenair, I'm guessing ... but the Florida March 2014 schedules seem to merely straight-line the January post-Christmas reductions. I suspect that UA
115 MasseyBrown : Looking at the timetables for FIS construction and 737 MAX deliveries, I wonder if the 737-900 MAX is CLE's ticket to international service. Supposedl
116 greenair727 : ^Interesting. When does the MAX come on line? With that range, we could have CLE- HNL to the west; GRU (and MEX) to the south; and FRA/WAW/CDG/LHR to
117 MasseyBrown : Late 2017, commencement of service in 2018, if Boeing can keep to their schedule. It's a bit of a wait.
118 greenair727 : Re 2017/18, you're right that it may dovetail nicely with the FIS in the master plan (assuming that stays on schedule as well)....
119 fun2fly : Let's hope a CLE 757 TATL route occurs and then is phased into a 737 MAX. 2018 is a long time to wait! Hope for good ops tomorrow on CLE>SEA.
120 Post contains images MasseyBrown : UA could force enough feed through CLE today to support a European flight if they wanted to - but what's their incentive, when they are awash in hubs
121 greenair727 : I realize that flight crew pay varies per airline, but is there a good source on operating costs (fuel, mx) by equipment type? This would be great in
122 Post contains links and images MasseyBrown : Amazing you should ask! US Airline Aircraft Operating Cost Report (by LAXintl Jul 17 2013 in Civil Aviation) Notice the caveats from other postrers.
123 greenair727 : ^Good and interesting stuff! Thanks very much---just two days ago, too, I must have missed LAXIntl's posting.
124 PITrules : Looks like you guys had some nice diversions last night; an Air Canada 773 from PEK, Condor 763 from FRA, Air Canada A-320s from SJO and MBJ. All boun
125 Post contains links greenair727 : Status on the new FAA tower at CLE: "Construction of the 324-foot tall tower started in 2011 and current projections call for it to be completed in 20
126 Post contains links cle757 : http://www.cleveland.com/opinion/ind...nited_airlines_improved_on-ti.html Its nice to see that the shareholders meeting is in CLE, but United adding f
127 MasseyBrown : Early 2015, I hope. It was originally scheduled for late 2014.
128 MasseyBrown : Minor bit of good news. After the $50 million rise in 2011, CLE reduced its debt by $20 million in 2012, according to a report lately made public by t
129 joeman : True, just another dose of positive persuation/distration the consumer and voter is fed based on symantics on a daily basis. After all, UA added a on
130 N766UA : "And among United's eight hubs, Cleveland has posted the best on-time performance numbers over that period." LOL no kidding. The other hubs are O'Hare
131 joeman : Doesn't say much for travel quality or convenience for the passenger at our pet hubs
132 fun2fly : As a pax that just transited ORD F6B Gate, I can't believe they don't push every passenger they can via CLE Terminal D. Just nutty how uncustomer foc
133 MasseyBrown : $856.7 million as of the end of 2012. Every $20 million helps. Moody's rates the airport revenue bonds at Baaa1 and says: "STRENGTHS - Above average
134 greenair727 : ^As all the spots are rented out ( I think), it must mean that tenants pay a base rate + a percentage of sales or something. But without more traffic,
135 joeman : I guess I don't understand the big debt burden/prospects in comparison to airports that have completely re-worked both terminals and runways such as P
136 cle757 : Since UA seems to like seasonal flights maybe CLE could get some this winter! like COS,PUJ,POP,SAN,AUA to name a few
137 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Hope Silver is doing alright. While Friday's CLE flights were apparently normal, they had some kind of operational meltdown in Atlanta - almost nothin
138 fun2fly : It seems like CLE has expenses and the facility in line (save FIS), so the only true way to lower airline operating cost and airport debt is to get m
139 ncflyer : fun2fly, I think CLE has the curse of being a marginal hub. It's too small to for UA to make meaningful investments, but it's big enough that competit
140 MasseyBrown : Too true. This winter MDW is being cut to 5 on peak days, BWI to 3.
141 joeman : I guess PIT and CAK aren't spending advertising money in the CLE market for nothing. Wouldn't surprise me to see YNG doing the same as G4 soon expand
142 MasseyBrown : Ohio approved tax credits to Constant Aviation to add as many as 300 jobs and build a new hangar and offices at CLE. Constant had previously complaine
143 greenair727 : ^I saw a Crain's article on that and I'm glad you clarified it because the way Crain's wrote it, it wasn't clear. It said "City of Cleveland" (but did
144 MasseyBrown : The State press release did not specify that the construction would be on the CLE property - I was assuming that based on a Constant press release of
145 fun2fly : You don't see that very often - a move from the South to the North! Cleveland Lakefront Development Bids are due on Aug 15 - two weeks. Anyone heard
146 Post contains links MasseyBrown : I don't think they are closing the entire Birmingham MRO operation, just the landing gear portion. That makes sense since Nextant, a sister company,
147 PITrules : There's a pretty nice photo spread in the July issue of Airliner World featuring CLE's heyday. Pics include an AA 707, Northwest Orient DC-10, Contine
148 Post contains links greenair727 : New winebar, Vino Volo--part of a chain--opens at CLE, near Gate B2. Here's their press release: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...ternational-ai
149 MasseyBrown : UA has posted CLE Christmas schedules, including the customary adds to SAN, SEA, LAX, PHX, and Florida points. No surprises that I could find. This su
150 cle757 : I hope next summer they operate PDX and PHX, alot of customers had to go through ORD to get to PHX this summer
151 Post contains images MasseyBrown : Did you notice UA cut ORD-PHX to two flights for the summer? Low yields and high temperatures ...
152 fun2fly : The lakefront development RFP responses are due Aug 15. I have not seen or heard a word about the project since its launch. Any news? Sure hope a few
153 MasseyBrown : Interesting item in Crain's Cleveland's latest. Based on June 30, 2012 compared to 2013 numbers, UA added employees at CLE. 2,276 compared to 1,954 la
154 MasseyBrown : DL is putting 717's on CLE-ATL starting Oct 25th and ramping up to four a day during November. I always liked the looks of the 717 in AirTran livery.
155 greenair727 : ^I once flew Midwest Express from MKE to CLE instead of CO even though I was trying to build status on CO because I wanted to test out the 717. Its in
156 greenair727 : That's great to hear. Also good to hear! I wish DCP would publish [recent] pax numbers on their websites like other aviation authorities do....
157 cle757 : I think this is a mistake, if anything we've lost a few employees.
158 MasseyBrown : Yes, frequencies stay the same, model of aircraft changes. Sorry to hear that. Maybe one number counted Chelsea and the other didn't, something ? New
159 greenair727 : Ah! I thought you meant ramping up to "four frequencies"--i see you meant "four 717's". sorry for the confusion. so even if one of those 717's is rep
160 flyinryan99 : I kind of wondered as I hadn't heard anything from my contacts after I asked the question about them moving B1900s to CLE.
161 greenair727 : DOJ blocked the US-AA merger for now, but it will likely be 'resubmitted' with some modifications, such as US/AA giving more slots at DCA. Unless, it
162 MasseyBrown : Not on a non-stop basis; they fly only to their hubs from CLE. This merger isn't necessarily dead, just stalled for now. If DoJ succeeds in killing i
163 Post contains links greenair727 : Some improvements at BKL: "...The $20 million project at Burke Lakefront Airport at the edge of downtown Cleveland includes installation of a 400-foot
164 fun2fly : Not a peep mentioned in the defunct Plain Dealer. Any bidders? There is a ton of truck traffic involved in this for the past 30 days - perhaps normal
165 Post contains links greenair727 : Don't know, though I am curious to learn more as well. But there someone plugging for an aerial tram along the waterfront. What's nice to see is that
166 MasseyBrown : The Request for Quotation was mailed to 149 potential bidders, of whom 59 people (representing 39 interested firms) attended an informational briefin
167 greenair727 : I hope so. Thanks for the info.
168 Post contains links greenair727 : Re DPC's lakefront development plans, there were three bids for the full property and two smaller bids for parts of the property. The three for the fu
169 Highflier92660 : From the news articles the project description sounds confusing. I assume the EMAS will be placed on the approach end of 24R where there is ample roo
170 N766UA : Those have been gone for some time now. Burke gets pretty hopping with community events, I've seen the terminal full of runners/kid's day patrons/blo
171 MasseyBrown : (Greenair727 was wondering about UA's 2014 CLE-Florida schedule.) As noted in enilria's weekly OAG post, UA has *finally* listed the coming winter CL
172 greenair727 : ^Wow, Massey, you're good! I asked that question over a month ago--and you still remembered! Thanks.
173 MasseyBrown : WN says they will add back the January-February cuts (1 to BWI and 1 to MDW) with the March 8 schedule change. Also adding back 1 a week to MCO.
174 bjorn14 : Are commercial flights allowed at BKL?
175 swacle : This is true, back to 13 daily in March, including 2 week day -800's. In addition to the Saturday only MCO, the Saturday only RSW returns for the Mar
176 greenair727 : Yes---and there has been service in the past---but the city is powerfully doing nothing to bring new service at the airport. The terminal needs some
177 mbm3 : I might be very wrong, but I thought there was some sort of agreement with UACO that prohibits anything but charter service from BKL.
178 MasseyBrown : BKL gets lots of sports charters, although the 764 arriving today from IAH to take the Browns to/from Chicago is using CLE. Interestingly, UA is ferr
179 mbm3 : Could that 764 takeoff from BKL with that load?
180 greenair727 : I've heard that before too, but is that legal? Its sounds anti-competitive.[Edited 2013-08-28 12:24:35]
181 MasseyBrown : The Celtics flew in/out of BKL in a 767-200 last January, but I'd guess a basketball team is a much lighter load than a football team. However, the B
182 fun2fly : At CLE this week, I will give Ricky Smith some credit that he does continually work on the place. New cosmetic vending machine by the D tunnel, as wel
183 musicalmartian : How do you know when something different (like a 767) is flying into Cleveland to pick up/drop off the Browns? Id love to go up and see it, but I have
184 MasseyBrown : The IAH-CLE (regular schedule) and CLE-ORD (Charter UA 1830) flights are both listed on FlightAware The Browns return ORD-CLE, not yet on FlightAware,
185 MasseyBrown : Crain's Cleveland makes mention of Washington County (Marietta) Ohio, saying it may be the next drilling hot spot. Marietta is about 3 miles from PKB
186 fun2fly : BKL: Aweful lonely w/o the airshow this weekend due to sequester cuts.
187 cle757 : Yeah, but Obama can still have his vacation to Hawaii on our dime!
188 Post contains links fun2fly : Update on the harbor projects... http://www.cleveland.com/business/in...ncart_river_default#incart_m-rpt-2 I was reading that DL plans on starting CMH
189 mbm3 : Might make a comeback given all of the "new" metal coming in to their network with the 717s and 739ERs, plus the jumbo sized revenue to the west coas
190 greenair727 : ^Wouldn't CLE-SLC be a larger market? Why did DL do CMH instead of CLE---fear of UA starting the same route and undercutting them?
191 fun2fly : Just read that BA is starting AUS>LHR. I guess it proves that BA is willing to start new TATL routes. This thread has discussed a BA CLE>LHR rou
192 Post contains links PITrules : Isn't the SLC-CMH just a one off flight? Is DL To Resume SLC-CMH/BDL...start SYR? (by flyCMH Sep 2 2013 in Civil Aviation) Actually they don't. BA ret
193 greenair727 : ^CLE-CDG was killed by the recession; CLE-LHR by the preference to move the LHR slot to EWR----neither route was lost due to the was the lack of viabi
194 PITrules : Almost every city was affected by the 2008 recession, but bottom line the CLE service did not survive at the end of the day when many others did. It'
195 Sligo : DL's SLC service would be about the connections, not really the O&D....so it would be more effective for UA to add DEN capacity as retaliation. B
196 Sligo : PS I, for one, really hope that DL adds this service. It's needed badly IMHO. I just flew CLE-ATL-SNA. SLC would have made much better sense. I also h
197 Post contains images point2point : Wow..... DTW or MSP don't work for these, or are the fares just that much higher?
198 Sligo : Yes, MSP definitely gets you to both. I always avoid the one-class aircraft if I can though for all except something like CLE-DTW...hopefully CLE-MSP
199 fun2fly : Not sure of the onward connections, but the 2+ hrs in the CR2 kill it for me. I default to DEN / ORD going west on UA vs. DL via MSP which is my poin
200 joeman : Agree with this statement Not so much this one, I don't think CO flew CLE-LGW for 9 years (before the LHR bonanza) unsuccessfully, otherwise it sure
201 Post contains images MasseyBrown : I agree with joeman's history of CLE-Europe flying, except I suspect that the loss of Europe and many other destinations was as much a result of CO's
202 PITrules : I think the loss of nonstop service has exaggerated the declines more than 15-20 percent. PIT-FRA has declined a whopping 50% during the same period
203 MasseyBrown : Possibly correct. I use up to 20% without hesitation, because that amount is what the CAB/DoT allow for an expected traffic increase attributable to
204 Post contains links LoneStarMike : This is from an article that originally ran in February about AUS trying to get the new service to London, and was updated yesterday to reflect the a
205 greenair727 : ^Thanks for the article on what Austin had planned to do. Do you know if the route is being subsidized? The update to the article makes no mention of
206 Post contains links LoneStarMike : I don't know for sure, but in every article I've read, I haven't seen the words "subsidy" or "subsidized" being used. I haven't seen the words "trave
207 MasseyBrown : Well, good for Austin. I hope they fill the planes. The more successes the airlines find in second tier cities, the more they are likely to try. I thi
208 Post contains links and images MasseyBrown : Directional Aviation Capital (now a billion dollar company) has just bought Bombardier's FlexJet operation. The Bombardier press release makes no ment
209 fun2fly : With this transaction and their volume at Cuy County airport, it will make Cuy County airport busier than BKL! Ha. It is a big deal to have a rather
210 greenair727 : BKL is a much more capable airport than CGF--I wonder if this transaction has any impact/plans related to BKL. Also, on the topic of BKL, is there onl
211 Post contains images MasseyBrown : UA's October "low season" schedule for CLE includes more mainline flights than were in the summer schedule. It also includes four 752's. Strange peopl
212 AS739BSI : As long as the corporate contracts keep up and there is still money to be made, as we predicted, CLE would be optimized to function a bit more toward
213 Post contains links fun2fly : http://www.cleveland.com/business/in..._award_for_5th_straight_month.html UA team at CLE wins STAR award 5 months in a row and 6 of the last 10 months
214 Post contains links greenair727 : Some kind of BKL event happening. I never saw any advertising for it though--I only stumbled upon it by going to Port Control's website for something
215 joeman : Sincere congratulations and appreciation to the CLE team.
216 greenair727 : ^^By chance, did anyone attend that event at BKL?
217 MasseyBrown : The CLE-PKB route continues to fascinate me. Next week's loads ex-CLE (based on ua.com seat occupancy) are 81.6% for Monday (four flights), 63.2% for
218 fun2fly : Anyone know the hold up on the onsite fueling station at the airport to support the rental car facility? Sure is inconvenient to travelers to have to
219 Post contains links MasseyBrown : Good info on the FlexJet acquisition by Directional Aviation. http://www.marketwatch.com/story/for...-of-fractional-industry-2013-09-23 With the indus
220 joeman : CLE-AUS resumed with UA...
221 cle757 : The ramp workers at United are going to vote on a contract soon and it says all employees at the 7 hubs(there are 8 right now) are protected from furl
222 MasseyBrown : With just 25-35 mainline flights depending on time of year, CLE isn't a hub for UA labor purposes. (BOS, for example, has about 40 UA mainline flight
223 joeman : Maybe wrong, but sounds like another win for UA at CLE expense...no furlough protection for CLE ramp employees? Shame if it is. Back to other threads
224 cle757 : We do have furlough protection until 1/2018, but CLE is now considered a Tier 2 station.
225 MasseyBrown : Meant to say "bad for employee peace of mind."
226 joeman : Glad of at least that for the employee sake
227 MasseyBrown : DL is adding another CLE- ATL flight in January. The schedule will be one CR9 and six 717's. Because the 717 is smaller than the MD-88/D95's, capacity
228 Post contains links and images MasseyBrown : http://finance.yahoo.com/news/united...ive-airline-partner-155900637.html UA announced it is the exclusive travel company for the Gay Games, to be hel
229 joeman : I guess it's good news in the article linked by MassyBrown above and UA even refers to CLE as a hub and "nearly 200 daily flights". And we have this i
230 fun2fly : I was at the Cleveland Convention Center today. Nice place. There were two events: Some medical convention with seminars and exhibit space and the Roc
231 cle757 : Judging by the current ramp T/A agreement, the hub (or tier 2 station) will be ok until at least 1/2018..but hopefully longer!
232 joeman : All around, things are happening in a positive way for the CLE area and not in accordance with images projected by the ignorant "rustbelt" fanatics.
233 MasseyBrown : The Healthcare Information and Management Systems Society (HIMSS) on the fourth floor is supposed to bring 50,000 people to town annually all by them
234 MasseyBrown : As noted in enilria's OAG thread, CLE-CHS goes daily with the March UA sked change.
235 MasseyBrown : Too late to edit my last post ... This year's once weekly CLE-CHS was, I'm guessing, Saturday only Hilton Head travel. Seeing it go to daily is intere
236 joeman : Seems only the handful of EAS routes do. Nice add to the mix for as long as it lasts... I agree it's undoubtedly about CLE O&D, just like everyth
237 MasseyBrown : Ok, I looked it up, in winter, Q1/2013, CLE-CHS was 62 pax daily; the previous summer, Q3/2012, it was 85 daily. I guess - with a little feed - the ro
238 fun2fly : I guess what we can conclude from the CHS OKC and TVC additions is that UA is not ignoring CLE, rather they are having the route engineers take a har
239 cle757 : Has anyone else noticed that CLE seems to have alot of 757 activity lately?
240 fun2fly : PHX, IAH, MCO, where else? Enjoy them while they are around - only a year or two left.
241 Post contains links clewatcher : Can anyone find out what happened with Qantas #107 this afternoon? according to flightaware and flightradar24, this 747 made a wide turn down towards
242 freeze3192 : Anyone know what's up with the B753 sitting at C2 right now (10/12 1030L)?
243 MasseyBrown : UA 1837 753 arrived at 3:34 Saturday from DTW. Lions charter?
244 MasseyBrown : Hearing negative stories about Silver. They have apparently decided that retention of the Beeches just for CLE is not worth it and plan to go to all S
245 flyinryan99 : Which makes total sense as Silver wanted to expand back into markets that used to have B1900 flights out of CLE. UA obviously wouldn't play ball with
246 joeman : Yes it stinks since UA can't, better said won't, find a way to make things work for the CLE ops. So, further erosion huh? Then add these routes to 50
247 fun2fly : I heard you, tough seeing CLE being lapped. Haven't heard much from UA locally in some time, will have to check in with them to see if they know anyt
248 MasseyBrown : I think UA is scheduling CLE to make money on O&D alone with connecting traffic being treated almost as an low-profit/no-profit inconvenience. It
249 Post contains links iowaman : Just about to the 250 mark so I will go ahead and roll this to Part 4. This makes it easier for our members with slow connections and on mobile device
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