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A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 10  
User currently offlinejetblueguy22 From United States of America, joined Nov 2007, 2757 posts, RR: 4
Posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 64666 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
HEAD MODERATOR

The previous thread became quite long so part 10 is being created in order to make it easier for members. The previous thread can be found here A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 9 (by iowaman Apr 30 2013 in Civil Aviation) .
Thanks!
Pat


You push down on that yoke, the houses get bigger, you pull back on the yoke, the houses get bigger- Ken Foltz
257 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 64721 times:

Quote:
Ponchos site has the June 13 as a good date for MSN002 FAL spotting.

Ponchos site, is that an area in TLS? I'm afraid I don't understand you ferpe.

And "spotting" means a movement I guess, going from station 40 to 30 on June 13?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 64728 times:

Ponchos site is here http://avia.superforum.fr/ and it had a little bird singing 13 June for MSN002 today  Wow!


Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 64622 times:

Oh, you mean aviaponcho's website  
Quote:
So with that, lets speculate wild for a while:

MSN001 flies mid June

MSN003 flies mid July

MSN002 flies mid October

July is too soon for MSN003 I think, August is more likely. In one of the earlier thread we calculated that MSN003 should roll out from station 30 during the Bourget airshow. But you need to add at least another month for ground tests, painting and engine attachment.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 64224 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 3):
July is too soon for MSN003 I think, August is more likely.

I tend to agree with that. August would still be good enough I guess. But to keep up with the planned flight test schedule it should be ready by that time to enter that test program.


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 63784 times:

A new angle of MSN001 from the A350XWB blog.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jqf6Y51jZ2k/UZK2ZGQOvzI/AAAAAAAAEHE/6qlcJyQ0IXA/s1600/roolout130513.jpg

The proportions are just right in my opinion.



BV
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 63540 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 5):
The proportions are just right in my opinion.

Not least from that angle. It looks almost perfect. (Stupid thing to say, I know, but it's going to be an absolute delight seeing these things at airports from next year!)


User currently offlineAF185 From Hong Kong, joined Sep 2012, 256 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 63408 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 5):
A new angle of MSN001 from the A350XWB blog.

What a beautiful bird!! Can't wait to see it flying


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 63133 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 2):
Ponchos site is here http://avia.superforum.fr/ and it had a little bird singing 13 June for MSN002 today

Thanks, I now found the thread. I don't speak any French so I put it through Google Translate:

Quote:
Arrival of MSN 2 Fal for June 13

Isn't that a bit late? I expected MSN2 to be in FAL now.

The whole translation gives me:

Quote:
Arrival of MSN 2 Fal for June 13 will be the first version with commercial and A350 800 that this will ever but soon boot tray for the A350 in 1000

Google Translate messed this up but I have no idea what he means with the -800 and -1000?

The little bird also confirms first flight for June 11.

[Edited 2013-05-16 01:07:15]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineBogi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 63137 times:

Beautiful from afar (350.blogspot)


"The first start of the jet's twin engines, produced by Rolls-Royce Holdings PLC (RYCEY, RR.LN), could come as early as Friday, said the people familiar with the process."

http://www.foxbusiness.com/news/2013...us-a350-nears-key-electrical-tests


User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 62936 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):

Ask me for translation 


User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 668 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 62919 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 10):
Ask me for translation

Dear Aviaponcho,

Can you please translate?

Sincerely,

Starbucks   



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 62846 times:

It's done over there


:D

[Edited 2013-05-16 02:28:59]

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 62808 times:

Thanks for the translation.

Smart move for Airbus to put the A350-1000 before the A350-800 IMO    This could EIS the -1000 in 2016, 3 to 4 years before the 777X EIS  scratchchin 

[Edited 2013-05-16 02:11:12]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 62766 times:

KarelXWB, indeed without accelerating A350-1000 scheduled it frees slots for more and earlier -1000 slots

User currently offlinePugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 62640 times:
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It would make sense to produce the A35J next, but I suppose it depends on where they are upto on the program. Would the A35J sections fit inside the current Beluga?

User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 62645 times:

Pugman, it should ! next Beluga is for late in this decade

User currently offlinePugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 62516 times:
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I thought it would, and I hope they do make it the next variant.

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 62476 times:

@Pugman211 any news on wing transport? Will we see another set of wings being transported to Bremen later this month?


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 62124 times:
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I would imagine so, MSN 004 (both wings) had the L/E painted beginning of May, but I believe that the wings required some additional work before they are sent to Bremen. Will try to get an update.

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 62076 times:

Excellent.

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 19):
MSN 004 (both wings) had the L/E painted beginning of May

This also confirms my suspicion that the wings of last month were for the EF2 section.

Thus, MSN4 should enter FAL by the end of July (or maybe a bit later).



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 61540 times:

Beochien at Avia forum has found the little brother of MSN001, msn01:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/raton_laveur_animal_animaux_zoo_zps1cf1e5a3.jpg


He looks like he is wondering where his big mate went....     



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 61457 times:

Now that's really cute. A raccoon bastard.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 61418 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 13):
Smart move for Airbus to put the A350-1000 before the A350-800 IMO.   

The only thing pushing back the A350-800 EIS is the reluctance of the current customers for the type to take delivery, so I wonder if Qatar and the others have told Airbus they don't want it in 2016?


User currently offlineBlueshamu330s From UK - England, joined Sep 2001, 2865 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 61239 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
The only thing pushing back the A350-800 EIS is the reluctance of the current customers for the type to take delivery, so I wonder if Qatar and the others have told Airbus they don't want it in 2016?

Apologies if I'm misinformed, but didn't Qatar convert its 20 -800s into 3 x -900s and 17 x -1000s ?

Quote:
The State of Qatar’s national airline, Qatar Airways and Airbus have signed an amendment to convert its existing firm order for twenty (20) A350-800s, forty (40) A350-900s and twenty (20) A350-1000s to forty three (43) A350-900s and thirty seven (37) A350-1000s. Qatar Airways’ total order for A350 XWB aircraft remains at eighty (80) aircraft.
http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...dorses-the-larger-a350-xwb-models/

Rgds



So I drive a 4x4. So what?! Tax the a$$ off me for it...oh, you already have... :-(
User currently offlinePM From Germany, joined Feb 2005, 6868 posts, RR: 63
Reply 25, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 62116 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 23):
I wonder if Qatar and the others have told Airbus they don't want it in 2016?

Qatar don't want it at all. Ever. In fact, they say it's been cancelled.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 26, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 62141 times:

I believe only 2 customers were/are scheduled to take delivery of the -800 in 2016 and it is reasonable to think they found a way to put the delivery further back into 2017.

Now if Leahy gets its dedicated assembly line for the -1000 and if Airbus can EIS it into 2016, that could explain where all those new orders are coming from.

[Edited 2013-05-16 06:16:49]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 27, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 63167 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 26):
Now if Leahy gets its dedicated assembly line for the -1000 and if Airbus can EIS it into 2016, that could explain where all those new orders are coming from.

Airbus are going to need to run this by RR first as the TXWB-97 is not scheduled for first flight until 2016, I'm sure this can be pushed up but the decision will have to be made soon...



BV
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 28, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 63043 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 27):
Airbus are going to need to run this by RR first

That is true. Same story for the main landing gear.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineCCA From Hong Kong, joined Oct 2002, 830 posts, RR: 14
Reply 29, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 62692 times:

Any ideas for a time line of rollout of the first dozen A/C and which A/C are for which airline?

Something like what 747classic did over on the 747-8 production thread.

Quote:
L/N 1420 - 747-8R7F, RC501, serial number 35808, first test aircraft, light Boeing livery N747EX, based at KBFI.
L/N 1421 - 747-8KZF, RC521, serial number 36136, second test aircraft, light Boeing livery, N5017Q,based at KVCV.
L/N 1422 - 747-8KZF, RC522, serial number 36137, third test aircraft,light Boeing livery, N50217, now at KIWA
L/N 1423 - 747-8R7F, RC502, serial number 35806, first production aircraft for Cargolux, painted grey, KPAE flight line
L/N 1424 - 747-8R7F, RC503, serial number 35807, 4th test aircraft, new Cargolux livery, N5573S, KPAE flight line
L/N 1425 - 747-8HTF, RC541, serial number 37132, KAL Cargo #1, (leased GuAP), full livery, HL7609, KPAE flight line
L/N 1426 - 747-8HTF, RC542, serial number 37133, KAL Cargo #2, (leased GuAP), full livery, HL7610, KPAE flight line
L/N 1427 - 747-867F, RCXXX, serial number 39238, CPA/CX #1, future registration B-LJA, in assembly, slant#1 position
L/N 1428 - 747-867F, RCXXX, serial number 39239, CPA/CX #2, future registration B-LJB, in assembly, slant#2 position
L/N 1429 unk. -8F, in assembly
L/N 1430 unk. -8F, in assembly
L/N 1431 unk. -8F, in assembly
L/N 1432 unk. -8F, in assembly
L/N 1433 unk. -8F, in assembly
L/N 1434 - 747-8XX, RC001, serial number ---------, First 747-8I test aircraft, destined for a BBJ customer in Kuwait, wing assembly and section 41 assembly started.


[Edited 2013-05-16 07:12:32]

Thanks KarelXWB


[Edited 2013-05-16 07:13:57]


C152 G115 TB10 CAP10 SR-22 Be76 PA-34 NDN-1T C500 A330-300 A340-300 -600 B747-200F -200SF -400 -400F -400BCF -400ERF -8F
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 30, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 62718 times:

Quote:
Any ideas for a time line of rollout of the first dozen A/C and which A/C are for which airline?

I will work on that soon.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 31, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 62686 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 8):
Arrival of MSN 2 Fal for June 13
Isn't that a bit late? I expected MSN2 to be in FAL now.

As I understand it: to get the A350 certified before the end of 2014 it's important to get MSN1, MSN2 and MSN3 into the air this year because as you can see in the chart these frames will do all the heavy work. MSN4 and MSN5 can easily follow next year because they will do light work.

As far as I know those 3 heavy fit frames will fly this year. Sure the schedule is tight but doable.

As I said in the previous thread before it was closed, I still think it is very/too tight for the type certificate. Remember that MSN2 will take much longer to assemble as it is the 1st cabin aircraft. Surely lots of little surprises to be discovered there. It should still be in the air by end of the year but I guess it will be late Fall.

Quoting Bogi (Reply 9):
"The first start of the jet's twin engines, produced by Rolls-Royce Holdings PLC (RYCEY, RR.LN), could come as early as Friday, said the people familiar with the process."

No, too soon, we haven't even seen APU runs yet. I think we can bet/hope for APU runs & ground tests next week, engine runs by end of may. Taxi tests beginning of June... enabling FF the week before Le Bourget as rumored in the previous thread   


User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 668 posts, RR: 6
Reply 32, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 62391 times:

Quoting r2rho (Reply 31):
No, too soon, we haven't even seen APU runs yet. I think we can bet/hope for APU runs & ground tests next week, engine runs by end of may. Taxi tests beginning of June... enabling FF the week before Le Bourget as rumored in the previous thread

Rumors after rollout were that the APU could run as early as Wednesday (Yesterday)
Nothing has been confirmed, but it could be that is ran already  



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlinefrigatebird From Netherlands, joined Jun 2008, 1565 posts, RR: 1
Reply 33, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 61936 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 27):
Airbus are going to need to run this by RR first as the TXWB-97 is not scheduled for first flight until 2016, I'm sure this can be pushed up but the decision will have to be made soon...

I'm not so sure it will be that easy. Original EIS of the -1000 was rather optimistic IMO (end of 2015), and after Airbus changed the design to enable HGW it was said EIS would be delayed to 2017 as a result of RR having to redesign the T-XWB (higher thrust requirements, resulting in a bigger core IIRC). Further postponement of the -800 will sure help Airbus getting the -1000 ready to fly 2nd half of 2016, but it would need at least 9 months of test flights as well.

Don't forget original EIS of the -1000 at the end of 2015 also when Airbus expected the -900 to EIS in 2013. This will now be Q3 2014 at the earliest, this delay will also have its effect on the -1000 (as the 787-8 delays resulted in a later EIS of the 787-9 as well).



146,318/19/20/21,AB6,332,343,345,388,722,732/3/4/5/G/8,9,742,74E,744,752,762,763,772,77E,773,77W,AT4/7,ATP,CRK,E90,F50/7
User currently offlinetransaeroyyz From Canada, joined Dec 2010, 149 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 61879 times:

In regards to the possible Paris fly bye do you think the Alfa-Max test is off the table....   

User currently offlinePugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 61474 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 20):
This also confirms my suspicion that the wings of last month were for the EF2 section.

I'm not 100% certain. All the wings I have seen at the moment seem to be MSN allocated frames. I think, MSN 002 is still at Bremen, whereas MSN 004 is still in UK, but going to Bremen very soon. We know where 001 + 003 are.


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 36, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 61062 times:

Quoting frigatebird (Reply 33):
Don't forget original EIS of the -1000 at the end of 2015 also when Airbus expected the -900 to EIS in 2013. This will now be Q3 2014 at the earliest, this delay will also have its effect on the -1000 (as the 787-8 delays resulted in a later EIS of the 787-9 as well).

Yes but the -800 was then scheduled for 2014, ie 1 year after the -900.

If the -800 is shuffled backwards 2015 FF for the -1000 should be possible if the engine is available and from that 2016 EIS should also be possible.



BV
User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 37, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 60957 times:

Quoting transaeroyyz (Reply 34):
In regards to the possible Paris fly bye do you think the Alfa-Max test is off the table....   

I say combine the visit to Paris and the difficult parts of the flight test plan  the crowds demand live testing


User currently offlineTheRedBaron From Mexico, joined Mar 2005, 2191 posts, RR: 8
Reply 38, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 60816 times:

Quoting transaeroyyz (Reply 34):
In regards to the possible Paris fly bye do you think the Alfa-Max test is off the table....   

To do that you will need a lot of trees.... LOL

CANT WAIT... the suspense ... I hope at least I can see the Engine run test and rejected take off....

TRB



The best seat in a Plane is the Jumpseat.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 39, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 60817 times:

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 35):
I'm not 100% certain. All the wings I have seen at the moment seem to be MSN allocated frames. I think, MSN 002 is still at Bremen, whereas MSN 004 is still in UK, but going to Bremen very soon. We know where 001 + 003 are.

Hmm but you said:

> March 13: The wings of MSN002 were transported to Bremen today by Beluga. I only saw the R/H wing leave, but assume the L/H already went.
> April 23: The only update I have is there will be another set of wings ready for transport to Bremen in the coming weeks.

We also know that the wings stay 1 month in Bremen so MSN002 wings have to be in TLS now and the wings from April 23 should be for EF2? And MSN4 wings are currently being prepared for transport to Bremen.

[Edited 2013-05-16 09:59:28]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinePugman211 From UK - England, joined Dec 2012, 103 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 60438 times:
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I think where i've been confused is the wings for April 23 could possibly be for MSN 004 (like I said, they required some additional work, but I dont know what that was).

I will try to get a fresh update next week.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 41, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 60373 times:

Thanks for the clarification Pugman211.

Quoting Pugman211 (Reply 40):
I will try to get a fresh update next week.

Great! And maybe you can also find out why:

> The wings for MSN002 are still in Bremen, why is it taken so long? Is it related to the cabin?
> Where are the wings for EF2, have they been shipped before MSN002?

Thanks in advance  

[Edited 2013-05-16 10:46:30]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 42, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 60259 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 41):
Why is there additional work on the MSN4 wings?

If Pugman is in the painting the wings get fabricated complete in Broughton, then I would guess get painted and then there is part of the wing avionics which gets fitted at Broughton as well (part of the fuel system electronics if I remember right), not all electrics get fitted at Bremen.

You can find all the facts in one of the early threads (I find it easier to go out and do a Google search with some words like airliners in them then sift through these threads to try and find the posts  ).



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 43, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 60206 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 42):
If Pugman is in the painting the wings get fabricated complete in Broughton, then I would guess get painted and then there is part of the wing avionics which gets fitted at Broughton as well (part of the fuel system electronics if I remember right), not all electrics get fitted at Bremen.

I see, I first understood the MSN4 wings require work in Broughton than MSN1 so forget my second question  

[Edited 2013-05-16 10:45:43]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 44, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 60040 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 42):
You can find all the facts in one of the early threads (I find it easier to go out and do a Google search with some words like airliners in them then sift through these threads to try and find the posts  ).

I found it, it is Bigsmile (one of our in the know persons  ) who informs us that Broughton actually fits the fuel and hydralics after wing completion, Bremen then puts on the high lift stuff and finishes the wings (Thread 1 post 43, 18 moons ago, does time fly  Wow! ).



Non French in France
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3386 posts, RR: 10
Reply 45, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 59853 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 42):
(I find it easier to go out and do a Google search with some words like airliners in them then sift through these threads to try and find the posts  ).

Absolutely agree. If you type into google 'site:airliners.net' before what you are searching for it will only search this site.

tortugamon


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 46, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 59492 times:

Quote:
1) MSN001 First Flight 11 june

Still in line with the other rumors. Be aware this is a "window", it could slip if an issue shows up. Weather conditions could be a b***h sometimes  The week of June 10 would be a safer bet.

Quote:
2) MSN002 FAL Start 13 june

EADS chief financial officer Harald Wilhelm now said that Airbus is preparing MSN002 to enter the assembly line "soon".

This still surprises me though, I would have expected it in FAL now. The wings for MSN002 are also longer in Bremen than usual so what's going on   

Quote:
3) MSN003 currently in station 30 until June 20th

Funny, in one of the earlier threads ferpe had calculated a roll out from station 30 on June 17.

That makes a total of 6 weeks faster assembly time than MSN001.

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 45):
Absolutely agree. If you type into google 'site:airliners.net' before what you are searching for it will only search this site.

That's how I search in almost every site.

[Edited 2013-05-16 12:07:43]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineSemaex From Germany, joined Nov 2009, 823 posts, RR: 2
Reply 47, posted (1 year 2 months 2 weeks 7 hours ago) and read 59307 times:

I just can't resist saying it now:

They could have done a better paintjob on the sunglasses. I think it looks strange that they followed the contours of the windows. Instead they should have drawn the black paint more horizontal, to give it the mean look the CGIs were giving us ahead of production....
Truely hope they're going to change it on the upcoming test frames.



// You know you're an aviation enthusiast when you look at your neighbour's cars and think about fleet commonality.
User currently offlinethesultanofwing From El Salvador, joined Dec 2012, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 48, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 57261 times:

Getting more excited about this aircraft!
Let's throw in a bit of fuel, go taxi and do a few aborted take off's while we're there, strap on some parachutes at the back of a few Airbus pilots.....and FLY!

I ignored the troll thread about the A350 looks, but me too would like to report I quite like the looks!
Can't wait till B787'S and A350's are a common sight, anywhere; even where I live!


Please keep us updated with the nitty gritty in these oh-so critical weeks ahead!



I feel like the A318 at times: I am probably worth more parted out than as a whole.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 49, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 55838 times:

According the little bird, MSN001 will roll out from the C63 hangar on Monday and than the APU will be started for the very first time.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 668 posts, RR: 6
Reply 50, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 55670 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 49):
According the little bird, MSN001 will roll out from the C63 hangar on Monday and than the APU will be started for the very first time.

Could it be that if everything goes well the engines will be started as well (later that day..)



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 51, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 55629 times:

I don't expect an engine run on Monday, it will take a few days to scrutinize all the data from the APU run.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 52, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 54726 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting PM (Reply 6):
Not least from that angle. It looks almost perfect. (Stupid thing to say, I know, but it's going to be an absolute delight seeing these things at airports from next year!)

I could not agree with you more.  .

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 26):
Now if Leahy gets its dedicated assembly line for the -1000 and if Airbus can EIS it into 2016, that could explain where all those new orders are coming from.

2016 is news to me. But it would be very good news.  .

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 13):
Smart move for Airbus to put the A350-1000 before the A350-800 IMO. This could EIS the -1000 in 2016, 3 to 4 years before the 777X EIS

They reacted to the wishes/demands the customers will have expressed to them. And they reacted in the correct way.  .


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 53, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 53525 times:

Here is an interesting quote from Tim Clark (EK):

Quote:
"As Airbus knows, I want to see it on its wheels with its engines running and preferably in the air," Clark said in an interview at a recent trade show. "I am afraid I am not prepared to accept anything until I see telemetry giving performances of the engines and the fuel. The A350-1000 is definitely one that we would be looking at. But first of all - show me."

Factbox: Countdown to A350 first flight



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 54, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 51985 times:

Yet another evidence our threads are being read:

https://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/336941802840002560/photo/1

(I don't think the found the animal where Beochien posted it    )



Non French in France
User currently offlineknoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 258 posts, RR: 23
Reply 55, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 51596 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Seems the MSN 001 is visible from the TLS airport side. It is located at the long range Morvan flight test preparation line, and I could see fuel pump lines being connected to the wings.


No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 56, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 51486 times:

Thank you

On his way to bikini ?


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 57, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 51431 times:

Quoting knoxibus (Reply 55):
It is located at the long range Morvan flight test preparation line, and I could see fuel pump lines being connected to the wings.

Fuel in the wings and flight test center preparation line sounds like engine tests to me  Wow!



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 58, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 51432 times:

How would Airbus turn on the APU for the first time, with ground power or internal power (fuel) ?


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 59, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 51332 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 57):
Fuel in the wings and flight test center preparation line sounds like engine tests to me

I believe this is the area where MSN001 currently is parked:

http://oi42.tinypic.com/33f5keg.jpg



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineTristarsteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 3981 posts, RR: 34
Reply 60, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 51303 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 58):
How would Airbus turn on the APU for the first time, with ground power or internal power

Both.
You must have ground power on to see what is happening. Previous Airbus designs use ground power through a TRU to provide most of the muscle for the APU starter, with the battery assisting for a while.
On A320 the TRU provides 300amps, and the battery around 200amps to start with. As the APU accelerates the load goes down and the battery bows out.

Starting without ground power works OK, but there is absolutely no indication in the flight deck until the APU gets to 100pc and the generator comes on line.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 61, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 51255 times:

Thanks.

That means there was probably no APU run last Monday?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 62, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 51121 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 61):
run last Monday?

The indication on Avia forum was there should be APU runs this Monday, ie 2 days ago. An APU run does not take a lot of fuel, I imagine one can fuel the tanks for an APU run around the C63 hangar. But then why not fuel the airframe and do all the runs in one go, APU and Engines.



Non French in France
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 63, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 50581 times:

Ferpe, not sure for APU run indoor (C63...).

User currently offlineairmagnac From Germany, joined Apr 2012, 303 posts, RR: 44
Reply 64, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 50468 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 62):
But then why not fuel the airframe and do all the runs in one go, APU and Engines

The APU has probably been extensively tested on its own, so the purpose of the APU runs would probably be to check the interactions of APU and fuel system, APU and electric system, APU and bleed system, APU and structure (vibrations, heat loads), and maybe some other multi-system interactions I can't think of.

You'd want to clear all that before moving to the next step, otherwise you'd risk missing important problems, and you'd introduce some confusion in your testing. As an example, say you run APU and engines for the first time in one go, and at the end of the tests someone notices some cracks* in the structure. Problem : were the cracks initiated by the APU running, by the engines running, or by both running in a quick sequence ? Often, the only way to figure that out is to re-run the test, costing time and money.

Testing is very similar to manufacturing in this regard : Discipline is key, you have to complete each step properly before proceeding to the next, otherwise you just end up with a big mess.

But I don't really know a whole lot about testing a complete aircraft...now where's the world's favourite flight test director when we need him ?  


*it's just an example, I don't even know if it's realistic. And it probably isn't

[Edited 2013-05-22 14:46:04]


One "oh shit" can erase a thousand "attaboys".
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 65, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 50359 times:

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 64):
Testing is very similar to manufacturing in this regard : Discipline is key, you have to complete each step properly before proceeding to the next, otherwise you just end up with a big mess.

Thanks for a good post, I did mean fuel and run the tests sequentially but if I would have been more clear this nice post would not have been made, glad I goofed  .



Non French in France
User currently offlineairmagnac From Germany, joined Apr 2012, 303 posts, RR: 44
Reply 66, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 49605 times:

haha, I should have read more carefully !

Still, the point is, before you start a test you want to be sure of the exact status the aircraft is in. That way, when the test is over you can do another assessment. And if you find any undesirable changes between before and after the test, you can trace that back to the actions performed during the test and perform an analysis, without confusion.
So the test teams would probably do the APU runs, then gather all the data and do some checks on the fuel, bleed and electric systems, then use that to assess the status of the airplane at the end of the APU tests. If everything looks good, or if all detected issues are documented and cleared, only then do you proceed to a different test. It might take a little time, hence the delay between 2 sets of tests.

At least that's what I would do, generally speaking (there may be clever tricks to accelerate the whole process). But I work with digital models running on computers - all I have to do before starting a new test is reset the sim to get a clean initial status ! As I mentioned, tdscanuck would really be a better source for such matters



One "oh shit" can erase a thousand "attaboys".
User currently offlineUnflug From Germany, joined Jan 2012, 447 posts, RR: 2
Reply 67, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 49540 times:

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 66):
Still, the point is, before you start a test you want to be sure of the exact status the aircraft is in. That way, when the test is over you can do another assessment. And if you find any undesirable changes between before and after the test, you can trace that back to the actions performed during the test and perform an analysis, without confusion.

Could you explain this to my software developers, please?

Just joking, but testing really is an art in itself. If you do it wrong you can loose an incredible lot of time.


User currently offlineairmagnac From Germany, joined Apr 2012, 303 posts, RR: 44
Reply 68, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 49335 times:

Quoting Unflug (Reply 67):
Could you explain this to my software developers, please?

Sorry, it's already hard enough explaining it to mine !    
But I can't blame anyone, I myself learned the hard way what you say :

Quoting Unflug (Reply 67):
testing really is an art in itself. If you do it wrong you can loose an incredible lot of time



One "oh shit" can erase a thousand "attaboys".
User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 69, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 48619 times:

The FTB is getting a good workout for some reason, F-WWOW is up now and has been up 4 times in a week.

According to Flightradar24

AIB51OW seen @ 2013-05-23 14:28 UTC
FWWOW seen @ 2013-05-22 13:52 UTC
FWWOW seen @ 2013-05-17 07:29 UTC
FWWOW seen @ 2013-05-16 07:32 UTC



BV
User currently offlinejollo From Italy, joined Aug 2011, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 70, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 9 hours ago) and read 48540 times:

Quoting Unflug (Reply 67):
Just joking, but testing really is an art in itself.

Not really: testing is a discipline, and asks for a disciplined approach. The "artistic" 5% is best left last.



Quoting Unflug (Reply 67):
If you do it wrong you can loose an incredible lot of time.

Agreed 100%    . Alas, in the software industry you can have a miserable time explaining that to top management. I gather (hope) that in the aviation industry the proper role of testing is a bit more integral to doing business (787's recent woes notwithstanding).


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 71, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 48361 times:

Quoting jollo (Reply 70):
Agreed 100%    . Alas, in the software industry you can have a miserable time explaining that to top management. I gather (hope) that in the aviation industry the proper role of testing is a bit more integral to doing business (787's recent woes notwithstanding).

Well they lost the plot with the A400M engine software and had to start again adding about a year to the program so its not all good news in the Aviation industry.



BV
User currently offlineairmagnac From Germany, joined Apr 2012, 303 posts, RR: 44
Reply 72, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 8 hours ago) and read 48114 times:

Quoting jollo (Reply 70):
I gather (hope) that in the aviation industry the proper role of testing is a bit more integral to doing business.

It is, but I think the aviation manufacturing industry has the benefit of its history. Once upon a time there was almost only one way to test an airplane, and that was to take it up and shake it up. A sometimes dangerous task which required people with great skills. That created a strong tradition of flight testing, and aircraft testing more generally.

But extensive testing is useless if you haven't properly specified and designed your product in the first place, which itself requires lots of far-sighted investment to deploy a large array of specialised design tools and to structure communications between all the stakeholders. And guess what,

Quote:
you can have a miserable time explaining that to top management

 



One "oh shit" can erase a thousand "attaboys".
User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1308 posts, RR: 52
Reply 73, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 7 hours ago) and read 47941 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Quoting ferpe (Reply 21):
He looks like he is wondering where his big mate went....     

So I'm not the only one who thinks of a Racoon when I see it. Not bad - Racoons are cute. I had a pet one named Rachel when I was a kid (true story). But that's what I see every time....



rcair1
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 74, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 5 hours ago) and read 47636 times:

I don't think you are alone, wonder how many at Airbus who has put up a picture of this cute animal on their cupboard 


Non French in France
User currently offlinecmf From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 75, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 47421 times:

Quoting jollo (Reply 70):
in the software industry you can have a miserable time explaining that to top management

Even harder to explain why you didn't test and now need to go back to go... Honestly, I have no idea where you guys work because every company I worked with the last 15 years have insisted on tests. If those tests actually provided valuable info is a different issue.


User currently offlinercair1 From United States of America, joined Oct 2009, 1308 posts, RR: 52
Reply 76, posted (1 year 2 months 1 week 4 hours ago) and read 47383 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
CUSTOMER SERVICE & SUPPORT

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 73):
Racoons are cute. I had a pet one named Rachel when I was a kid (true story).

If the 350 is as clever as Rachel was - it'll be a great plane (and fun to watch too).



rcair1
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 77, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 47314 times:

From the A350 blog:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-nQCfNU1_rTI/UZe1_elEjnI/AAAAAAAAENI/63N8vG4tzG4/s1600/WP_20130506_021.jpg



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinejollo From Italy, joined Aug 2011, 212 posts, RR: 0
Reply 78, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 15 hours ago) and read 46954 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 71):
Well they lost the plot with the A400M engine software and had to start again adding about a year to the program so its not all good news in the Aviation industry.

Agreed but IIRC in A400M's case it wasn't specifically a test (or lack thereof) issue: they used the wrong development environment and design process in view of the civil certification requirements. The software (probably) worked fine, it just couldn't be certified as is. That was nevertheless a bad, costly mistake, and we've been discussing the organisational roots of that mistake at lenght in another thread in MilAv&Space. We also agreed that A350 program management seems to have their act much better together.

Quoting cmf (Reply 75):
Honestly, I have no idea where you guys work because every company I worked with the last 15 years have insisted on tests.

Aw, if you were never asked to make up for project delays by shaving time allocated to tests in order to meet that "critical" deadline, I really, *really* envy you. Insisting on tests? Sure. Paying (in terms of $$$ and time) for tests to reach the target confidence level? Much less enthousiasm, in my experience.

All in all, I am confident Airbus knows exactly how much they can push their schedule: FF before Le Bourget (and a flyover at the show) would surely be a great PR benefit, but not at all costs.

[Edited 2013-05-24 04:49:32]

User currently offliner2rho From Germany, joined Feb 2007, 2579 posts, RR: 1
Reply 79, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 46540 times:

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 64):

You'd want to clear all that before moving to the next step, otherwise you'd risk missing important problems, and you'd introduce some confusion in your testing.
Testing is very similar to manufacturing in this regard : Discipline is key, you have to complete each step properly before proceeding to the next, otherwise you just end up with a big mess.

Nice post and fully correct. That's why when people ask here about engine runs, I say wait to see an APU run first. And before an APU run you'll have to have some fuel tests first (have there been any of those that we know of?) And an APU run has to happen outside the hangar, so we'll know when it happens. But I think next week is certainly a realistic guess.

Quoting airmagnac (Reply 64):
The APU has probably been extensively tested on its own, so the purpose of the APU runs would probably be to check the interactions of APU and fuel system, APU and electric system, APU and bleed system, APU and structure (vibrations, heat loads), and maybe some other multi-system interactions I can't think of.

Correct. I'm sure the APU has done plenty of hours at the supplier (was it Honeywell?) facilities, you're not doing this to "rediscover" the APU (in theory at least, as "little issues" are always discovered during flight test), but to test at aircraft level how it interacts with everything. Flight testing is really just the very last (but most publicly visible) step in testing, before that there have been thousands of smaller tests, from the little supplier of a valve testing it in a lab, to running a full system on a test rig, to running the Iron Bird, etc.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 80, posted (1 year 2 months 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 46477 times:

Sneaky Airbus has added photos of the paint process on their gallery but not on the first page.

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1368136800_A350_XWB_MSN1_painted_12.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1368136800_A350_XWB_MSN1_fuselage_painting_05.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1368136800_A350_XWB_MSN1_tail_demasking_11.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1368136800_A350_XWB_MSN1_Wing_demasking_09.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1368136800_A350_XWB_MSN1_Sanding_HG.jpg

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1368136800_A350_XWB_MSN1_fuselage_demasking_06.jpg

See http://www.airbus.com/galleries/photo-gallery/ for high-res pictures (page 2).



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineaffirmative From France, joined Jul 2009, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 81, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 45292 times:

it's been very quiet the last couple of days.. No news on APU run or engine run? Things need to come together if we're gonna see her in the skies over Paris. Not that I want them to rush but I would love to see her flexing her wings on Friday the 21st..


I love the smell of Jet-A1 in the morning...
User currently offlineAirlineCritic From Finland, joined Mar 2009, 699 posts, RR: 1
Reply 82, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 44807 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 80):

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1368136800_A350_XWB_MSN1_painted_12.jpg

Amazing picture! Hoping that there'll be an on-air version of this picture some day!


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 83, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 43861 times:

Quoting affirmative (Reply 81):
it's been very quiet the last couple of days.. No news on APU run or engine run? Things need to come together if we're gonna see her in the skies over Paris.

I think we can assume that the APU tests are being run from the present place (Morvan apron), look in the test schedule factbox from Reuters that Karel posted:

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/...a350-factbox-idUSBRE94J0LA20130520

The APU tests is not only to test the APU but also all the systems it services, hydraulics, electricity, bleed air...

Then when this is all OK it is time for Bikini (the apron closer to the airfield which has sound and blast walls) to test the engines, perhaps this week.



Non French in France
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 84, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 43608 times:

Ferpe, some of your questions have for sure answers... in french  

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 85, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 43362 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 84):
in french

Thanks  



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 668 posts, RR: 6
Reply 86, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 43116 times:

Soooo, anyone wants to share those French words?? (A) :P


A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 87, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 43087 times:

Sorry it's done  
I haven't tested google translate but I usually go on russian sites with it ... sometimes it's funny ... but It can helpful !


User currently offlineaffirmative From France, joined Jul 2009, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 88, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 42947 times:

Thanks aviaponcho.. I speak french too and did manage to decode what you were actually hinting to..  

//A-firm



I love the smell of Jet-A1 in the morning...
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 668 posts, RR: 6
Reply 89, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 42935 times:

Found it now as well  
Thanks for the translation   I'll try to decode the rest :P



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlinetravelavnut From Netherlands, joined May 2010, 1586 posts, RR: 7
Reply 90, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 42800 times:

Quoting starbucks (Reply 89):
Found it now as well

Guys c'mon!! Can you please post what you found! 



Live From Amsterdam!
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 91, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 42719 times:

The APU run has been completed. Now the next step is the engine run, those RR XWB engines on MSN001 will be started for the very first time and I hope Airbus will shows us the video.

From a previously Airbus interview we've learned that the engine tests will last 10 days. Then the next step are the taxi tests; 3 taxi tests will be done I believe.

So engine run this week + 10 days testing = taxi tests around 8 - 10 June ?

[Edited 2013-05-27 03:17:19]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 92, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 42665 times:

Karel, where's your link for the engines tests ?

User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 93, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 42674 times:

You can find the interview here:

http://www.aeronewstv.com/en/article...24-a350-first-flight-imminent.html

Very interesting information!



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 94, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 42419 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 21):
He looks like he is wondering where his big mate went....

His big mate is in jail  



http://twitter.com/FlightDKM/status/338751066789257217



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 668 posts, RR: 6
Reply 95, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 42287 times:

Nah, his big mate is still on the run... Hopefully engine-run soon!  :P


A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 96, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 42265 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 94):
His big mate is in jail  
Quoting starbucks (Reply 95):
Nah, his big mate is still on the run... Hopefully engine-run soon!  :P

best yet      



Non French in France
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 97, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 42120 times:

I think I didn't catch the pun with "hell raisin "

Can someone explain ?


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 98, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 42086 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 94):
Nah, his big mate is still on the run... Hopefully engine-run soon! :P

Exactly, we are expecting him to take flight soon  
Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 97):
I think I didn't catch the pun with "hell raisin "

Can someone explain ?

Making trouble - Raising hell



BV
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 99, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 42038 times:

All right

Raisin is grape in french, so I was a bit confused  


User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3386 posts, RR: 10
Reply 100, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 41773 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 94):
His big mate is in jail
Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 99):
Raisin is grape in french,

Hilarious stuff guys. I like it. Thanks for sharing all of the information. Cannot wait for first flight.

tortugamon


User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 101, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 41786 times:

Then il will be time for some good "raison" based beverages with some tiny tniy bubbles ... (not the huge subprime bubble I mean   )

For sure I can also save some bottles for Cseries First Flight, 787-9 first flight, Interjet SSJ delivery, MRJ ?

It's a hard life !


User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3386 posts, RR: 10
Reply 102, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 41924 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 101):
Interjet SSJ delivery

Ok, now you are just looking for un raison a boire rather than a raison d'être .

tortugamon


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 103, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 41499 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 93):
You can find the interview here:

http://www.aeronewstv.com/en/article...24-a350-first-flight-imminent.html

Very interesting information!

Indeed. Thanks for posting.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 91):

The APU run has been completed.

So far everything seems to go quite smoothly. A fly-by during the Paris Air Show is still very much a possibility.  


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 104, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 6 hours ago) and read 41070 times:

About the recent overweight discussion, here is Aspire Aviation again with its 3 tonnes overweight claim:

Quote:
For instance, Aspire Aviation‘s multiple sources at Airbus and people familiar with the matter all confirmed that MSN001, the first A350-900 ever built, is 3 tonnes (6,613.9lbs) overweight against the aircraft’s manufacturer weight empty (MWE) of 115.7t, or 1.1% of its 268t maximum take-off weight (MTOW).



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 105, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 40092 times:

Hello folks
Some news of MSN5000

http://avia.superforum.fr/t1358p440-airbus-a350xwb#37482

Have a nice day


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 106, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 39914 times:

Wing load test completed at 115 or 125% ?


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 107, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 39931 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 105):
Some news of MSN5000

This should then be OK for the first flight tests. I don't think there is any hard limits for the flight tests, here what Tom wrote when we had the subject up last time:

A350 Prototypes Production Thread Part 6 (by ManuCH Nov 8 2012 in Civil Aviation)#61

Quoting ferpe (Reply 60):
Great, now which of these tests does A have to do minimum before they can fly MSN001?

Technically, none. MSN001 will fly as an experimental, which gives you very wide latitude. However, you'd fly with a very restricted flight envelope if you were being prudent and didn't have any of the static frame data yet. It would be vaguely similar to the situation with 787 ZA001 after they found the side-of-body problem...they could fly but not with the full flight envelope.

Tom.



Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 108, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 39979 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 106):
Wing load test completed at 115 or 125% ?

125% apperently, should be enough for flying the aircrafts full envelope in flight test. Now A can thread to ultimate load (150%) ever so cautiously.



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 109, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 39989 times:

I believe Bombardier also said that 125% is enough for a first flight. At least you know for sure that the wing will not break after takeoff  

150% can be done later, I believe the A380 wing load test at 150% was done almost a year after first flight (and failed at 145%).



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 110, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 39966 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 109):
I believe Bombardier also said that 125% is enough for a first flight. At least you know for sure that the wing will not break after takeoff  

Well it should not  . Actually the test director said the first flight is one of the easiest for the tests, there is almost no load factors taken and you fly well within the speed and height envelope with 2 engines  Wow! . It gets exiting later on when you go to full load factors, stalls, one engine take-offs and landings, and what have you.

Further the test is 125% of the calculated highest load the aircraft will ever theoretically be subjected to, normally that is in a thunderstorm gust (positive g) or a very very hard landing (negative g) if I recall the discussions of late.



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 111, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 39954 times:

So when do you hit 150% load? When you nose dive the airplane?


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 112, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 39826 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 111):
So when do you hit 150% load? When you nose dive the airplane?

You don't in an Aibus as long as the FBW is in normal or one of the degraded modes with flight envelope protection still active (can remember all but alternate is one of them), the active protection only gives you 2.5G max IIRC. In a Boeing or other aircrafts which does not have hard envelope protection (B makes it harder to pull Gs over the limit but you can still if you pull REALLLY hard) you can reach 150% of limit load, it would typically be in a pull up close to ground from a total mess up of your flying (you have to have lost it completely to be forced to pull that hard).

Such flying can be compared to your panic braking when you realize you will hit something hard, you basically stamp as hard on the brakes as you can and let the car do the rest. When you pull to 150% of limit load you in more cases than not has stopped flying long before that.

We shall we aware that a normal flight probably uses less than 30% of limit load or so.

[Edited 2013-05-28 05:41:23]


Non French in France
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 113, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 39779 times:

On the 787 I read that it's 150% for 3 seconds.

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 114, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 39471 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 104):
About the recent overweight discussion, here is Aspire Aviation again with its 3 tonnes overweight claim:

Aspire's claim of an MWE of 118.7t for MSN 001 would track with statements from Airbus.

In June 2008, Airbus noted target MWE for the A350-900 had risen from 113.5 to 115.7t (with a concurrent rise in MTOW of 3t to compensate).

In June 2011, A350 Chief Engineer Gordon McConnell was quoted in Aviation Week & Space Technology that the MWE for the first developmental frames had risen by an additional 3 tons, which would put it at 118.7t and the same as Aspire's figures.

[Edited 2013-05-28 07:52:32]

User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 115, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 39324 times:

Stitch do you have any link for the june 2008 MWE ?
Thanks


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 116, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 39217 times:
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Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 115):
Stitch do you have any link for the june 2008 MWE?
Here you go

Quote:
Analysis of the global finite element model, along with input from systems suppliers that has provided a more accurate weight for the system equipment and installation, has established that the A350-900's manufacturer's weight empty is 2.2t greater than the 113.5t target and (A350 Chief Engineer Gordon) McConnell expects "similar deltas" for the -800 and -1000.

"We've increased the MTOW by 3t across the family to maintain the payload/range capability," says McConnell. The previously quoted MTOWs for the -800, -900 and -1000 were 245t, 265t and 295t, respectively.


The actual figure was 115.7 tons (113.5 + 2.2), so that puts Aspire's 118.7t figure for MSN 001 on target based on Mr. McDonnell's subsequent comment that OEW rose another 3t between 2008 and 2011 for the early frames.

[Edited 2013-05-28 07:57:11]

User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 117, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 39177 times:

Thanks
I got this one
But for the 114.2 t MWE ?


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 118, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 39070 times:
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Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 117):
But for the 114.2 t MWE ?

I'd rounded up 113.5t to 114t then added the 2.2t to get 116.2 tons. The specific figures were a target MWE of 113.5 tons, with that increasing by 2.2 tons by 2008 (to 115.7 tons) and by another 3 tons by 2011 (to 118.7 tons) for the early frames.

[Edited 2013-05-28 07:56:15]

User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 119, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 39056 times:

All right

I've got +2.2 t corresponding with +3 t MTOW
+2.3 t acknowlegded in PAS2011

And I don't round up  

So far for me no real weight problem

Everyone seems to have forgotten that the 21500lbs overweight ZA001 was against an already much increase MEW since the beginning of the program (see Airbus 787 lessons learnt), so the 787 is still overweight vs the initial concept, and you can see it in the race for the thrust increase ... and the maybe not so straighforward 787-10X

Thanks


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 120, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 38935 times:
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Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 119):
Everyone seems to have forgotten that the 21500lbs overweight ZA001 was against an already much increase MEW since the beginning of the program...

Some of that OEW growth was driven by airline requirements, who still wanted the original range, just now with higher payload weights as they moved from the original 8-abreast specification to 9-abreast. The 787-9 was especially affected by this, eating into the MTOW overhead Boeing had planned for the 787-10.

We've seen this with the A350-1000, as well. When Airbus increased the performance, they noted OEW would also rise by 2.4 tons due to the heavier engines, structural reinforcements to support a 10t increase in MTOW and the changes to the wing.


User currently offlineabba From Denmark, joined Jun 2005, 1330 posts, RR: 2
Reply 121, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 37801 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 110):
It gets exiting later on when you go to full load factors, stalls, one engine take-offs and landings, and what have you.



Sure, landings are one of the most critical phases of flight. Better not run an unnecessary risk early on in the flight test program. Avoid landing after first flight and only do such dangerous thing later on  




(Sorry Ferpe - I just couldn't resist. I guess that "one engine" also covers landings - I just didn't see that at first)


User currently offlineswallow From Uganda, joined Jul 2007, 554 posts, RR: 0
Reply 122, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 37654 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 114):
Aspire's claim of an MWE of 118.7t for MSN 001 would track with statements from Airbus.

How does the 359 MWE of 118t compare with that for the 333 and 343, which it replaces?



The grass is greener where you water it
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 123, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 37420 times:

A330-300 is 109 t, really light indeed (probably lighter than the smaller 787-9).
But the A330-300 is a 300PAX (36+264) 2 class bird whereas the A350-900 is a 315 PAX bird (48+267 PAX)


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 124, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 37137 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 112):
You don't in an Aibus as long as the FBW is in normal or one of the degraded modes with flight envelope protection still active

All right, I was more thinking of a "shit hits the fan" situation.

Quoting ferpe (Reply 112):
can remember all but alternate is one of them

This is one for the bookmarks: http://www.airbusdriver.net/airbus_fltlaws.htm



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently onlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1542 posts, RR: 2
Reply 125, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 36654 times:

I'm curious to know if Airbus are still doing away with the Li ion battery, considering that Boeing have found a solution, and also it must complicate things starting flight testing with one type of battery and at some stage changing to another.

Surely just putting their Li ion battery in a box like Boeing would be the quickest, cheapest and easiest. I can't imagine it was possible to patent the Boeing solution.

Ruscoe


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 126, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 36494 times:

Swapping should be relatively easy because Airbus developed their plan B already in 2011.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 125):
Surely just putting their Li ion battery in a box like Boeing would be the quickest

Boxing the battery is not the problem, the li-ion battery puts the EIS at risk because there is a chance that the authorities will take more time to review the battery construction.

[Edited 2013-05-29 03:45:44]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 127, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 36749 times:
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Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 125):
I'm curious to know if Airbus are still doing away with the Li ion battery, considering that Boeing have found a solution, and also it must complicate things starting flight testing with one type of battery and at some stage changing to another.

Boeing did not find any solution imho. By using a containment construction for smaller battery cells, and with some additional measures they have minimised the risks and consequences of a battery fire greatly. But they did not find a real solution, nor the direct cause of the battery fires or batteries overheating.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 125):
Surely just putting their Li ion battery in a box like Boeing would be the quickest, cheapest and easiest. I can't imagine it was possible to patent the Boeing solution.

That is exactly why Boeing chose this construction to "fix" the problem. I agree with you that such a solution (making the batteries smaller and containing them better) could be worthy of a patent.

[Edited 2013-05-29 04:01:32]

User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3386 posts, RR: 10
Reply 128, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 36352 times:

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 127):
making the batteries smaller

I have read that they have added space between the cells, controlled the range and rate of charge, but this is the first that I have heard that the batteries are actually smaller.

tortugamon


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 129, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 36173 times:

Quoting tortugamon (Reply 128):
I have read that they have added space between the cells, controlled the range and rate of charge, but this is the first that I have heard that the batteries are actually smaller.

I think that's right, tortugamon - no change in the battery size. But I believe that they have fitted insulation between the battery cells (previously there was none). Just 'instinct' on my part, but I think that that lack of insulation could very possibly have been the root of the problem?



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlinetortugamon From United States of America, joined Apr 2013, 3386 posts, RR: 10
Reply 130, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 36046 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 129):
but I think that that lack of insulation could very possibly have been the root of the problem?

I have no info to say anything different but I know that It certainly did not help the thermal runaway dynamics.

tortugamon


User currently offlineknoxibus From France, joined Aug 2007, 258 posts, RR: 23
Reply 131, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 35703 times:
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In order to stay on topic, just to let you know that MSN 001 has just entered the weighting hall next to the Final Assembly Line. hopefully some spotters will catch her, as soon as she moves out.


No matter what anybody tells you, words and ideas can change the world.
User currently offlineAviaponcho From France, joined Aug 2011, 611 posts, RR: 8
Reply 132, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 35641 times:

maybe some spotters can snap a shot of the weighting device screen  

Thanks


User currently offlinerheinwaldner From Switzerland, joined Jan 2008, 2213 posts, RR: 5
Reply 133, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 34327 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 125):
I'm curious to know if Airbus are still doing away with the Li ion battery, considering that Boeing have found a solution, and also it must complicate things starting flight testing with one type of battery and at some stage changing to another.

According to the following link, the Version at EIS will not have lithium ion batteries. But for the second version in 2015 or 2016 (?) a switch is already planned. Airbus is working closely together with the FAA about that:
(sorry, in German only) http://www.aerotelegraph.com/airbus-...nen-batterien-statt-nickel-cadmium


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 134, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 34335 times:

Quoting Aviaponcho (Reply 132):
maybe some spotters can snap a shot of the weighting device screen

Apparently Airbus are following the 'ancient' tradition - the A350 is indeed overweight! Only about three tons, though, not nearly as bad as the 787 was at the same stage  :-

"According to Aspire Aviation‘s sources at the world’s largest plane-maker, the A350-900 is around 3 tonnes overweight although more change in part designs will enable more weight savings to be realised as Airbus begins flight-testing the airplane from mid-2013 onwards, which should be carried out carefully in order to prevent unintended consequences in overburdening the supply chain with change orders.

"Excessive weight remains an issue, although the situation is allegedly much less dramatic than in the case of the 787."


http://bloga350.blogspot.com.au/2012...xwb-overweight-estimated-in-3.html



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 135, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 33885 times:

The weight should be under control from airplane number 17 (MSN17).


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 136, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 33666 times:

I have 4 updates from a little bird.

1) MSN002 FAL start imminent

This was reported earlier, Airbus is currently preparing FAL start for MSN002.

2) MSN004 wings sent to Bremen a few weeks ago

There were some reports in the previous thread about "another wing shipment"; these were for MSN004 and are now in Bremen for outfitting since a few weeks. Based on this, I think MSN004 could start FAL in July.

3) Wings for destruction

The wings which will be brought to destruction as part of static/fatigue testing will be shipped after MSN004 in June of July. Not sure if these are the EF2 wings but I think they are.

4) MSN005

The wings for MSN005 will be shipped to Bremen after the "destruction wings", probably in August. Based on this, MSN005 won't be in FAL until September or October.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineap305 From India, joined Jan 2000, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 137, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 33478 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 135):

3) Wings for destruction

The wings which will be brought to destruction as part of static/fatigue testing will be shipped after MSN004 in June of July. Not sure if these are the EF2 wings but I think they are.

This is extremely confusing... From what I can make of this article, http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-for-main-structural-tests-365076/ , Ef2 is a test station that deals with the center section of msn5000. Almost all aircraft in the recent past have had the ultimate load/destruction test done on the full static airframe. There is also a left hand wing section undergoing testing in Germany. I am not sure where this new "wing for destruction" is popping up all of a sudden. One wild guess is that Airbus wants to perform an ultimate load test on this section before performing another on msn5000?.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 138, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 33403 times:

Quoting ap305 (Reply 137):
Ef2 is a test station that deals with the center section of msn5000

EF2 will also have wings attached, see here:

http://oi42.tinypic.com/f6j44.jpg

Ultimate wing load will be done on MSN5000 but it seems like the destruction will be done on EF2, likely after the fatigue tests have been completed.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineap305 From India, joined Jan 2000, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 139, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 33361 times:

Quoting ap305 (Reply 137):
This is extremely confusing... From what I can make of this article, http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-for-main-structural-tests-365076/ , Ef2 is a test station that deals with the center section of msn5000. Almost all aircraft in the recent past have had the ultimate load/destruction test done on the full static airframe. There is also a left hand wing section undergoing testing in Germany. I am not sure where this new "wing for destruction" is popping up all of a sudden. One wild guess is that Airbus wants to perform an ultimate load test on this section before performing another on msn5000?.

After looking at that article again, perhaps its just me getting confused  . There must be a separate static airframe (i.e msn 5000) and this fatigue airframe that is in separate pieces. However this still does not explain the ultimate load test/destruction aspect.


User currently offlineap305 From India, joined Jan 2000, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 140, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 33359 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 138):
EF2 will also have wings attached, see here:

http://oi42.tinypic.com/f6j44.jpg

Ultimate wing load will be done on MSN5000 but it seems like the destruction will be done on EF2, likely after the fatigue tests have been completed.

Thanks... the fog is clearing a bit now  


User currently offlineovercast From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 141, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 33318 times:

I think it goes like this:

EF1-3 are parts for Fatigue testing

EW is Static and Fatigue for the Wing, most likely focusing on the flaps( remember these are far more active on the A350 as they are used during all phases of flight )

ES(aka MSN 5000) is the Static Airframe, and will be used for ultimate load test.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 142, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 33278 times:

Quoting overcast (Reply 141):
ES(aka MSN 5000) is the Static Airframe, and will be used for ultimate load test.

Correct but ultimate load test is not the same as destruction?



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 143, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 33226 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 142):
Correct but ultimate load test is not the same as destruction?

Assuming Airbus uses the same terminology as Boeing, "Limit Load" would be the maximum load the wings should ever be subjected to in flight and this test would be performed prior to first flight of the test airframes.

"Ultimate Load" is the 150% test, which would be performed later on (after flight testing and certification is underway).


User currently offlineovercast From United Kingdom, joined May 2005, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 144, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 33229 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 142):
Correct but ultimate load test is not the same as destruction?

Correct, but I'd imagine you'd only go to Ultimate on a complete airframe, then carry on to destruction on the same frame to see how close your predictions are to reality. Only ES(5000) will have enough structure for that.

Also all other units, EF1-3 and EW, are listed as being for Fatigue testing, which indicates they will be in use after any Ultimate/Destructive testing.


User currently offlineBogi From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 145, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 33109 times:

Published today by bloga350.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-9CM5J67W1Kw/UZe16B9CJxI/AAAAAAAAEM8/p6QsCj8O26w/s1600/IMG_2505.jpg
Is this MSN 3?


User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 146, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 32986 times:
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Quoting Bogi (Reply 145):
Published today by bloga350.

Very nice! Those wing-lets..........  .


User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 147, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 32986 times:

Quoting Bogi (Reply 145):
Is this MSN 3?

Can't be, MSN003 does not have engines, it is MSN001 going to painting.



Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 148, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 31996 times:

Ponchos bird has been active again, here what his last post in the Avia forum is giving us:

http://avia.superforum.fr/t1358p480-airbus-a350xwb#37751


" Ceux qui veulent voir du Trent fumer feraient mieux de foncer à Toulouse plutôt que d'aller à la messe dimanche!

Smoke screen testing on A350XWB ... using two Trent XWB smoke generator

et l'avion est desormais aux mains de,l'equipe d'essai "

""Those who want to see Trents smoking better force their way to Tls instead of visiting the mass on sunday!

........

and the aircraft is in the meantime in the hands of the flight test department""


The last sentence is really positive, as we can see from the 350 blog the flight test department only accepts a ready aircraft, this means all preparatory testing has been going well and they will now start engine and taxi tests. Exiting  Wow! . Time for flightradar 24 with call sign F-WXWB ! 

[Edited 2013-05-31 20:38:50]


Non French in France
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 149, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 31951 times:

Quoting ferpe (Reply 148):
The last sentence is really positive

Possibly even more positive than you suggest, ferpe. As far as I know 'desormais' best translates into English as 'henceforward' or 'from now on.'!  

But, as you say, lots of taxi tests etc. to do - plus the 'infamous' simulated tailstrike one - before any actual flights.



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2212 posts, RR: 56
Reply 150, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 31865 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 149):
plus the 'infamous' simulated tailstrike one

Vmu (minimum unstick, where the tail is dragged on the runway) will come later in the test program, and will most likely be performed at Istres near Marseille. Istres is France's version of Edwards AFB, with really loooong runways... it was even a trans-Atlantic abort site for the Space Shuttle orbiter.


User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 151, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 31273 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 149):
But, as you say, lots of taxi tests etc. to do - plus the 'infamous' simulated tailstrike one - before any actual flights.

Nope, only 2 to 3 taxi tests are required.

> Engine tests will last 10 days
> 2 or 3 taxi tests are required before takeoff (low and high speed)



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 152, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 31280 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 151):
> Engine tests will last 10 days
> 2 or 3 taxi tests are required before takeoff (low and high speed)

And it's the first of June...........

Still looks 'lineball' whether Airbus can achieve a 'fly-by' over the Paris Show.

Odd really - anyone who knows me will realise that I'm instinctively a Boeing fan. But I'm also basically fair-minded, and my instinct is that, after all sorts of stuff-ups like the A380, Airbus have finally 'got one right' with the A350. I find myself honestly hoping that they achieve a 'hit' with it.......



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineaffirmative From France, joined Jul 2009, 350 posts, RR: 0
Reply 153, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 30833 times:

With the current timeframe a direct link to Toulouse for the first flight during the show seems more likely than a flyby. But I'm still keeping my hopes up.


I love the smell of Jet-A1 in the morning...
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 154, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 30618 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 152):
And it's the first of June...........


In theory, taxi tests can be done in 1 day. So engine tests until June 11, taxi tests on June 12 and first flight on June 13   



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 155, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 8 hours ago) and read 30346 times:

Flight has seen our posts and verified it with Airbus 

Here the link http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...nsfers-to-flight-test-team-386563/



Non French in France
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 156, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 30022 times:

Ostrower tweets: MSN001 is outside, next to A380 MSN001.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 157, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 28893 times:

We have engine run!   


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 158, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 28919 times:

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1370170702_A350_XWB_engine_run.JPG


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 668 posts, RR: 6
Reply 159, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 28893 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 158):

Looks like they didn't use the APU bleed air... 

2 High pressure air hoses from a ground airstarter are visible



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 160, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 28881 times:

Speaking about the APU, the APU doors are open.


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 161, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 28941 times:

Picture from the other side:

http://www.airbus.com/fileadmin/media_gallery/photogallery/big/800x600_1370171680_A350_XWB_first_engine_run.JPG

Both engines are running.



Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlineflood From United States of America, joined Feb 2009, 1381 posts, RR: 1
Reply 162, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 28742 times:

Great news, maybe they'll release some video later as well. Loving those wings!

User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 163, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 28571 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 157):
We have engine run!

Very good news   a few additional thing though

1) Ponchos man was bang on with engine start on a Sunday, which is a bit of an unusual day to do this type of work so we have to +1 the credibility of his information.

2) Engine start on a Sunday? The project seems to be working 7 days a week, it's like they are working towards some sort of unannounced deadline, like flying up to Paris in 2 weeks.



BV
User currently offlineKarelXWB From Netherlands, joined Jul 2012, 10743 posts, RR: 31
Reply 164, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 28529 times:

Airbus is working 24/24 and 7/7 on the A350 since a very long time.

[Edited 2013-06-02 07:09:39]


Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the universe.
User currently offlinestarbucks From Netherlands, joined Feb 2013, 668 posts, RR: 6
Reply 165, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 28480 times:

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 165):

Airbus is working 24/24 and 7/7 on the A350 since a very long time.

7 days I believe, but I remember reading about people working 13/14 hour shifts to get MSN001 ready, so it doesn't seem that Airbus has a full 24 hour shift running...

Morning, afternoon and nightshift

If someone has confirmation about the 24 hour shift please feel free to correct me  



A350 logbook: http://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AlVgPnmHLOovdFdzbVlyQzhYNDhCb1VFN1RkYXkwV3c&output=html
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 166, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 28337 times:

Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 164):
The project seems to be working 7 days a week

The advertising guys are probably working 20 hours a day, BoeingVista.............  
Quoting BoeingVista (Reply 164):
it's like they are working towards some sort of unannounced deadline, like flying up to Paris in 2 weeks.

The 'deadline' is indeed to get the A350 'on the map' in the available time - that is, flying over Paris during the Show, on live TV. Achieving that will instantly establish the A350 as a 'contender;' for the industry as well as for Joe Public.

Failing to achieve it during the Show will require Airbus to undertake a two-month-long (and expensive) campaign involving lots of flights and all sorts of press briefings..........

I'm pretty sure that Airbus will pull it off. As I've said, I'm no particular fan of theirs. But, in PR terms (given that the aeroplane appears to be flying safely) this situation doesn't appear to be an unduly difficult one to resolve?



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineEPA001 From Netherlands, joined Sep 2006, 4705 posts, RR: 38
Reply 167, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 28268 times:
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Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 157):
We have engine run!   

Fantastic news!     .

Quoting starbucks (Reply 159):
Press release  http://www.airbus.com/newsevents/new...irst-a350-xwbs-engines-powered-up/

And officially conformed as well!  
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 162):
Both engines are running.

They are not waisting any time with the program.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 165):
Airbus is working 24/24 and 7/7 on the A350 since a very long time.

They must have been seeing how fast they are making progress. O the other hand it is also an indication there are no real set-backs or bumps in the program lately. Which is of course very good news for all involved. A fly-by during the Paris Air Show, and becoming the headline of the show, seems more and more possible.     .


User currently offlineBoeingVista From Australia, joined Jan 2009, 1562 posts, RR: 3
Reply 168, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 27974 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 167):
Failing to achieve it during the Show will require Airbus to undertake a two-month-long (and expensive) campaign involving lots of flights and all sorts of press briefings..........

Yup, getting flying before or during the PAS will get the attention of the assembled aviation journalists, they will happily stand around to be briefed by Airbus, and pass this briefing on to their readers. If Airbus do not get her flying making the same impact will involve chasing them down to far corners of the earth and the journos finding column space to run the story in.



BV
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 169, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 27429 times:

And she is indeed standing besides a A380 (XWB testbed) on the flightline like Jon Ostrower tweeted before. Even though she smokes a bit  one must says she is a beauty    .


Non French in France
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 170, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 26490 times:

For location geeks like me  Wow! some more info from AVIA and Aero Web forums:

The engine runs today was preceded by the APU run (also first time) in front of the flight test departments building at TLS. The apron name is Abreuvoir (green arrow in picture, click on it to see better). This was just to light the TXWB up and check their basic (idle) running. Then follows taxi (tomorrow?) to the engine run area, Bikini (market in picture north of Abreuvoir), where the engines will be cycled up to full power (this area has the concrete blast walls that the Ethiad A340 ran into).

I have also marked where the 350 FAL is (where our friend Knoxibus works  ) and the paint hangar where MSN001 was painted. Further P18, the outside fuel and antenna test area, is marked and I think C63 (where the engines were mounted) are the hangars north of P18:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm262/ferpe_bucket/TLSaprons_zps41d82fe7.jpg



Non French in France
User currently offlinemariner From New Zealand, joined Nov 2001, 25008 posts, RR: 85
Reply 171, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 26386 times:
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Quoting NAV20 (Reply 167):
The 'deadline' is indeed to get the A350 'on the map' in the available time - that is, flying over Paris during the Show, on live TV. Achieving that will instantly establish the A350 as a 'contender;' for the industry as well as for Joe Public.

I don't understand this obsession with the Paris Air Show.

I understand that spotters are excited and want to see it, but surely the fact that it flies at all - when it does - is enough.

Any buyer, actual or potential, can see it at TLS, and the idea that Paris is some threshold it must meet is baffling to me.

mariner



aeternum nauta
User currently offlineferpe From France, joined Nov 2010, 2800 posts, RR: 59
Reply 172, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 26684 times:

Quoting mariner (Reply 172):
I don't understand this obsession with the Paris Air Show.

I understand that spotters are excited and want to see it, but surely the fact that it flies at all - when it does - is enough.

Any buyer, actual or potential, can see it at TLS, and the idea that Paris is some threshold it must meet is baffling to me.

There are many infos on french forums (and it has been pointed out here by Poncho) that MSN001 might not have clearance to fly over congested areas so early in the flight test program, so the whole PAS overfly issue might be a hoax. Lets focus on that she flies, where will come next  .



Non French in France
User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30584 posts, RR: 84
Reply 173, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 26757 times:
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Quoting mariner (Reply 172):
I don't understand this obsession with the Paris Air Show...Any buyer, actual or potential, can see it at TLS, and the idea that Paris is some threshold it must meet is baffling to me.

It's all about Public Relations, IMO.

Certainly no airline will buy it just because it flew at Paris (the 747-8 is proof enough of that), but the world's press will be at Paris, including a fair bit of media that normally do not cover commercial aerospace. An A350 fly-by will generate significantly more column-inches and page hits and get the A350 exposed to the general public and that is not a bad thing for Airbus.