Sabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2712 posts, RR: 48 Reply 3, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 886 times:
Airbus is not government owned, my friend!
Airbus is owned by:
EADS (French/German/Spanish) for 80%
BAe (British) for the remaining 20%
Both companies are (partially) listed on the european stock exchanges so if you want even you can buy a share of them, thus a share of Airbus!
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12956 posts, RR: 79 Reply 4, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 869 times:
Hate to disappoint you, but the first carriers showing real signs of problems are AA and CO, who have exclusive contracts with Boeing. If a European carrier did the same with Airbus you'd whine like hell.
Still, US carriers may get a big goverment cash injection, if things get really bad some European airlines may get a boost too, but we're dirty lowdown pinko commies aren't we?
I suspect your rather nationalistic, protectionist and rather ignorant view of things are about to be turned on it's head.
Anyone who thinks that the industry would prosper with just ONE manufacter i.e. Boeing, has no idea about the commercial, political and technical factors which have produced the aircraft we all fly in.
M27 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 314 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 817 times:
I'm not sure how an infusion of government money into US airlines helps only Boeing. Somehow, I get the feeling that GDB is against such a move though!
I do seem to remember some whining going on when Boeing signed some exclusive contracts in the past. Does anyone else remember that? I think maybe this whining got those contracts negated.
I'm not sure what my ignorant, protectionist, and nationalistic view means in this case, but if it means that the US Aviation industry is finally going to get some help like its European counterparts have been, then I most certainly hope I am turned on my head.
The only problem is that I have not seen any mention of direct aid to Boeing out of all of this. Maybe the government could give them a "loan" on the development of the SC. This would only be fair don't you think?
I wonder if US Air, Northwest and America West will get any of this Government Aid. Hey, what about Frontier and JETBLUE?
GDB, do you hope these Airlines will get any of the money? Is there any US airlines that you think should not get any of the money? What about American, Delta, Continental?
So yes, Boeing will suffer from this! You seem to say that Airbus won't and that you hated to disappoint the topic poster. Well, its my thought that if Airbus doesn't suffer, its because they get government help (both US and EU in this case) and you should really be glad for that!
GDB From United Kingdom, joined May 2001, 12956 posts, RR: 79 Reply 9, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 783 times:
No, I'm not against help for US carriers, this is an unpredented situation.
I just wanted to point out the double-standards of some on this site.
The SC already has got govt. cash, through NASA research, but that is what is sometimes required.
Sabenapilot From Belgium, joined Feb 2000, 2712 posts, RR: 48 Reply 10, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 769 times:
Well yes, but that's our right to do so!
In fact, Boeing always tries very hard to make everybody believe it is unfair competition and illegal subsidies, but in fact it is part of a larger European program to give government aid to companies producing highly competitive products within the E.U.
As you probably know, taxes are much higher in the E.U then in the USA, thus resulting in an unfavourable economical position for manufacturors in Europe.
Rather then to cut taxes in a blind and general operation, the E.U. has a policy of helping those companies which suffer the most from this.
Mind you, this is not often mentioned, but even forgeign companies can benefit from it! Toyota for instance receives millions every year, which keeps them from shifting production to overseas.
Hepkat From Austria, joined Aug 2000, 2341 posts, RR: 2 Reply 11, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 762 times:
Wait a sec! U.S. airlines will not be getting aid from the U.S. government.
According to official sources (I saw members of the Senate being interviewed about this), this money is compensation for their loss of business due to the FAA grounding their fleet and for the extra costs involved in carrying out the FAA's new directives. This is certainly not a bailout, or any form of aid.
In a free market society, no company gets "aid" from the government. Well, at least not officially.
777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 12, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 754 times:
Let's just clarify a few things. The US airlines (might) get aid from the US government, for the loss of earnings caused by government actions (the grounding and future security measures). Boeing recieves money from the government for government projects, but nothing else. EADS and BAe Systems *DO* get subsidies from EU governments. This is fact. You have to scrutinise government financial reports but they DO get subsidies. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure the US government would bail Boeing out if it got into serious trouble, but the fact is, Airbus has that extra safety net that Boeing doesn't have.
UPS Pilot From United States of America, joined May 1999, 869 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 701 times:
You have definately reiterated the definition of ignorance.
This is nor the place or time for an Airbus-Boeing debate.
I unfortunately have been sucked in. Most Middle East countries are now flying Airbus. They will suffer economic sanctions if they do not support the coalition and do support terrorism. Boeing has a very strong military product line. From choppers to bombers Boeing has it. History has a way of repeating it's self. WWII had the Boeing B-17, Vietnam had the Boeing B-52, The Gulf War aircraft all had Boeing components on them.
Please refrain from making ignorant statements unless you have facts. Speculation does not cut it in aviation!
Flying-Tiger From Germany, joined Aug 1999, 4137 posts, RR: 38 Reply 15, posted (12 years 2 months 4 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 677 times:
Just one question: how do you call the US gouvernment development aids for Boeing and NASA? Most of them were for military projects but a lot has been redirected to civil programms, often in indirect ways. Airbus is getting help from gouvernents for developing some parts of their projects, yes, but even the US gouvernment agrees on them!! As someone already said, here are doubble-standarts applied.