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Boise Poised For A Comeback?  
User currently offlineatcgod From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 661 posts, RR: 2
Posted (11 months 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 8156 times:

Sounds like Boise is making a push to add nonstops to SAN and DFW. I've worked here for 6 years and never seen DFW. SAN for a short time but not with AS. It's been a huge decline from 2008. Interesting that WN is still a major player here despite dropping service to RNO, SEA, PDX, and SLC. QX seems eager to fill any drop in service that WN wants to give up. This is an airport that could desperately use some good news.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/0...e-pushes-for-airport-comeback.html

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (11 months 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 7992 times:
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American Eagle ran 2x CR7 BOI-DFW June 1,2002 until January 2003.
Odd to me how the post 9/11 year was one of the better at BOI.
QX added SAN SMF DEN ( IIRC on DEN) n/s
F9 started their BOI-DEN flights June 25,2002
GQ statred BOI in MAy 2002 and the MQ DFW on June 1.
Of course, all since ended save for SMF.

As for WN, they have ended every route from BOI that was operated when they took over Morris Air.
I saw a few Expressjet flights from SAN and thought they did ok. I always thought SAN would be a good ad for BOI.

Having been born there and lived there for over 35 years, and worked at BOI for over 14, I have seen many an ebb and flow there.
Guessing 1982 as one peak year, as that was first year that 10 (yes TEN!) carriers flew there simultaneously.
United
Republic
Cascade
Western
Frontier
Wien
Transwestern
Pacific Cal Air
Pacific Express
and Minuteman Aviation
And just before downward slide, in early 2007, BOI had:
United
Alaska
America West
Delta
Southwest
Northwest
SkyWest
Horizon
Big Sky
Salmon Air
Mesa off and on

I think there should be no where but up to go now.Hopefully.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (11 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 7798 times:

BOI is an interesting market in that it's one of the most isolated cities with a metro population above 500,000+ in the US. Thus air service is more critical to the local economy than in it is in other cities in the rest of the continental United States. While I'm always a little iffy on subsidized air service, Boise is the kind of market where it really makes sense since driving to a nearby larger airport is considerably more impractical. It's not the east coast where you have 15 major airports in a 100 mile radius. Another dynamic in play is that Boiseans from my experience don't seem to travel a whole lot in a down economy. The level which passenger numbers have dropped since the 08 recession is pretty incredible.

But I don't think it's all bad. It used to be Boise was very well, arguably overserved for quite a few years. Now with mergers and fuel prices I think airlines may have cutback to the point where its a little underserved now If I had to guess what the future holds, I think the AA/US merger will result in a BOI-DFW nonstop. The E-175 is a perfect aircraft for the route and while the market isn't really large, I think it could at least support 1x daily in the winter, 2x daily in the summer. I also think a 1x daily BOI-MDW on WN could be a financially viable venture.

[Edited 2013-05-19 21:55:08]

User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (11 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7676 times:
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Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
I also think a 1x daily BOI-MDW on WN could be a financially viable venture.

I agree with that. And with the summer GEG-MDW this year, maybe BOI next year.

When Delta had the n/s to ATL, I was hoping that that would stick around, but alas not to be.

2.6 mill pax in 2012
3.3 mill pax in 2007

I see BOI is real close to Rochester,NY, just as a piece of trivia.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 829 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (11 months 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 7321 times:

I think that the DL hub in SLC is what doomed point-to-point for BOI. Just a short hop to SLC and BOI folks can be pretty much anywhere in the country.

User currently offlineSevensixtyseven From United States of America, joined May 2011, 160 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (11 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6015 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):

I drew a strong comparison between BOI to my home city, ABQ. It's a relatively large population in the "middle of nowhere", which makes it impractical to drive elsewhere to fly out, as you said, HOWEVER, over the past few years, the people who have flown out of both cities have been dropping since 2006-2007 by quite an amount, and service has been slashed to both. WN has been cutting and slashing many small-city to small-city markets recently, because they don't make enough money. How does BOI-GEG stick around?



Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2312 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5298 times:

I find it odd that a city like BOI can't support mainline(or RJ in AA's case) flights on a route like BOI-LAX, yet is complaining about not having nonstops to everywhere.


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (11 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5205 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 6):

UA flies 2x daily BOI-LAX. That service has been around for a long time. QX ran it 2-3x daily for many years but backed out as it couldn't support two carriers during the recession.


User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1644 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (11 months 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 4532 times:
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Quoting Airport (Reply 7):
QX ran it 2-3x daily for many years but backed out as it couldn't support two carriers during the recession.

I believe the cessation of CRJ-700 service at Horizon played a significant role in the end of BOI-LAX. Q400 on that route is really pushing it, if not doable period.


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4229 times:
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Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 5):
How does BOI-GEG stick around?

I would guess since they are the only ones doing it, plus some thru flights down south (LAS, PHX etc).

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 6):
I find it odd that a city like BOI can't support mainline(or RJ in AA's case) flights on a route like BOI-LAX, yet is complaining about not having nonstops to everywhere.

Maybe because the carriers that are at BOI would rather try to force pax to go thru SLC SFO OAK or LAS, IDK?

At the height, BOI had 2x ONT 2X SAN on XE; 2x LAX on QX; 2x LAX on OO simultaneously. Too much in my mind. Then DL* and AA* weak attempts also. I was somewhat amazed DL* wasn't trying again lol.

As for SAN, I think this could be a route Allegiant could do well in.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7006 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (11 months 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 4225 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 4):
I think that the DL hub in SLC is what doomed point-to-point for BOI. Just a short hop to SLC and BOI folks can be pretty much anywhere in the country.

I think is a major point that and SEA and its a one stop to almost anywhere and a fairly quick 1 stop. How many flights a day are there between BOI-SEA and BOI-SLC?



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (11 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4163 times:
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8 DH4 (QX) to SEA and around 6 to SLC varying CRJ,CR7,CR9,738 ,maybe a sporadic 752 and A319/20 (DL,DL*) at different times.

Added 757.

[Edited 2013-05-20 22:53:09]


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3493 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (11 months 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 4087 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 10):
I think is a major point that and SEA and its a one stop to almost anywhere and a fairly quick 1 stop. How many flights a day are there between BOI-SEA and BOI-SLC?


Yeah, but BOI-SEA-XXX is backtracking to just about anywhere. I'm sure those connections happen, but passengers originating in Boise surely can't like it. It's an extra hour or so in the wrong way to just about anywhere, If we're going to make the "nearby hub" argument, SLC is the culprit.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2885 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (11 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 1):
Guessing 1982 as one peak year, as that was first year that 10 (yes TEN!) carriers flew there simultaneously.
United
Republic
Cascade
Western
Frontier
Wien
Transwestern
Pacific Cal Air
Pacific Express
and Minuteman Aviation

Don't forget GG, which I do not see a 1982 timetable, but in 1981 GG had 4 n/s cities from BOI to Oregon, Idaho, Nevada and Utah. http://www.departedflights.com/GG070181.html

I love that FL was the only n/s service between BOI-EUG, and that FL served EUG for many years before trying the skies at PDX. http://www.departedflights.com/FL050182.html

At one time QX had a much larger presence. I don't think there has been type QX has flown that didn't see BOI at some point during the service of that aircraft. I've personally flown QX SWM, F27, F28, CRJ, DH8, DH4, DC9, 328's PDX-BOI



Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 147 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (11 months 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3837 times:

The DEN - BOI market seems to fluctuate depending on the time of the year. With OX and F9 out of the market you have UA, SW and DL via SLC. With SW not being the low cost carrier it once was, the fares are higher than in the past. What has always seemed lacking on this route has been the lack of tourism advertising in Colorado regarding the outdoor opportunities that also exist in Idaho. I have friends that used to go salmon fishing on the Snake annually, and others who enjoyed the Idaho winter sports options. Can't help but wonder if the state and local tourism would do more pr to nearby states that would help fill some of the BOI seats, Parts of Idaho have lots to offer but maybe, just maybe, the focus is on tourism from California that is at the top of their list.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3993 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (11 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 3681 times:

The disappearing Albertson's brand has had a huge impact on BOI air travel and carriers desire to service the city. Micron Computers and WinCo Foods can't cover what Albertson's did once upon a time for BOI in business traveler numbers.


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5229 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (11 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3589 times:

Over a period covering many years, QX has tried connecting BOI (and GEG) with SAN a couple of times. The most recent service was in 2007/08 and was a result of XE serving the route. QX flew the CR7 on the route at that time.

The DOT figures for SAN-BOI for 2012 show an average PDEW of about 70 O&D. That's a viable number of local pax -- and there would be some connecting pax flying the route as well -- for the right a/c. As has been mentioned, I think the Q400 is not particularly a suitable plane for the route so AS would probably need to set up another OO line with a CRJ flying a daily r/t. (And I could certainly think of some other routes that such a line could also serve...) This idea does not seem too far fetched now given AS's expansion in San Diego these days. Of course I'd love to see it happen!

From the article:

Quote:
Hupp said Delta Airlines is close to adding another flight to Minneapolis. And she said there soon could be nonstop service to Dallas-Fort Worth (American) and San Diego (Alaska).


The usual question applies: is this fact-based or just the typical wishful thinking? It sounds rather optimistic to me.

Also from the article:

Quote:
Airports can resort to more extreme incentives to boost service. One such incentive is guaranteeing that a certain number of seats are filled on new flights, particularly as a way to encourage airlines to add a new nonstop destination.


I'll write this off to journalistic ignorance but unless something has recently changed, no airport can offer seat guarantees; local businesses and local government entities can (and do) offer subsidies of this sort but NOT the airport.

bb


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (11 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3458 times:
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Quoting RWA380 (Reply 13):
Don't forget GG, which I do not see a 1982 timetable, but in 1981 GG had 4 n/s cities from BOI to Oregon, Idaho, Nevada and Utah. http://www.departedflights.com/GG070181.html

Yes Golden gate started Feb 81 to RNO then added SUN SLC and PDT. But then when they went belly up AUg 81, These were then operated by Swift Aire for about two weeks lol. Then they went out like their co corp GG. I remember a KTVB news story after GG left and WI was here reporter stated "Whether Golden Gate or Swift Aire, they are here to stay." Guess not.....

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 13):
I love that FL was the only n/s service between BOI-EUG, and that FL served EUG for many years before trying the skies at PDX. http://www.departedflights.com/FL050182.html

Hughes Airwest also did a BOI-EUG n/s. Also that it continued to SFO. Guess it was RW's way to compete with UA to SFO form BOI. Not sure if that lasted to RC merger.
Just looked. Was in 9/1980 RW tt, but not in RC 8/82 tt.
Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
local businesses and local government entities can (and do) offer subsidies of this sort but NOT the airport.

Well Boise Airport is part of the City of Boise, and a mostly stand alone arm of it, so I suppose they would be considered a govt agency that could offer something. I would think anyone with $$ to blow could offer an airline $$ to do anything.

[Edited 2013-05-22 12:11:28]


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 2968 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (11 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3275 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
It used to be Boise was very well, arguably overserved for quite a few years. Now with mergers and fuel prices I think airlines may have cutback to the point where its a little underserved now

Ever since deregulation in the early 80's, airlines have been "right-sizing". Wonder why they just recently discovered that the BOI market was over-served? Crazy.



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 1164 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (11 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3263 times:

How about a UA IAH-BOI comeback? CO has been on/off for years, but I think a IAH-BOI-DEN-BOI-IAH, or some smaller tag-on, crew routing could work for aircraft and crew scheduling purposes, with a late morning arrival into BOI and a redeye from BOI-IAH. Maybe twice a week could work?


Я говорю по-русский. :)
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2885 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (11 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 3046 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 17):
Was in 9/1980 RW tt, but not in RC 8/82 tt.

Yes RC started chopping RW routes shortly after the merger was complete. It makes you wonder why these carriers wanted to merge, when in fact very little of the RW network lasted, right up to the RC & NW merger.



Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1446 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (11 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3019 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 20):

I have a 1982 and 1983 OAG and much of the RW and SO network still existed. I think the change in strategy favoring DTW, MEM and MSP happened in 1984. ATL, ORD and PHX were reduced to spokes.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 2885 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (11 months 13 hours ago) and read 2846 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 21):
I have a 1982 and 1983 OAG and much of the RW and SO network still existed. I think the change in strategy favoring DTW, MEM and MSP happened in 1984. ATL, ORD and PHX were reduced to spokes.

You can see by 1982 the cutting had begun, by 1984 a good part of the RW network was gone by 1985 it was all but gone.

RW 09/01/80 - http://www.departedflights.com/RW090180.html

RC 12/01/80 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC120180.html

RC 04/26/81 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC042681.html

RC 06/01/82 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC060182.html

RC 12/15/82 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC121582.html

RC 07/01/83 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC070183.html

RC 06/01/84 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC060184.html

RC 04/28/85 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC060184.html

RC 03/02/86 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC060184.html



Rule number One, NEVER underestimate the other guys greed
User currently offlinemsp747 From United States of America, joined May 2010, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (11 months 7 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 4):
I think that the DL hub in SLC is what doomed point-to-point for BOI. Just a short hop to SLC and BOI folks can be pretty much anywhere in the country.

The SLC hub has been there since the WA days. For years, it was the only option for people flying DL out of BOI. I think what changed was when DL took over NW, they scaled back MSP flights dramatically. NW was three flights daily on A320s. After the merger, it was back to 2 flights and had become a regional jet route with the occasional 738 on it. Kind of forces travelers to use SLC. I know there were several occasions where it cost me significantly less to connect through SLC than take the direct between MSP and BOI


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (11 months 3 hours ago) and read 2675 times:
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Quoting msp747 (Reply 23):
The SLC hub has been there since the WA days. For years, it was the only option for people flying DL out of BOI. I think what changed was when DL took over NW, they scaled back MSP flights dramatically. NW was three flights daily on A320s. After the merger, it was back to 2 flights and had become a regional jet route with the occasional 738 on it. Kind of forces travelers to use SLC. I know there were several occasions where it cost me significantly less to connect through SLC than take the direct between MSP and BOI


But this summer there will be 4x BOI-MSP, 2 mainline and 2 connection. Seems as the SLC has been cut back as of late. When MSP was 2x rj, SLC was 7 or 8 mix f rj/mainline. But will be about 5 or so when MSP is 4, so they seem to be evening it out a bit.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
25 USAIRWAYS321 : Albertson's has recently (through a series of transactions) reconsolidated all stores under a single parent company which is once again headquartered
26 SLCUT2777 : But it isn't where it was back in the 1990s, and doubtful it will ever be. MSP is a much better East/West hub airport for DL than SLC, and it will be
27 mtnwest1979 : In June DL will have 5/day BOI-SLC ( at least the day I looked at). 1 738, 1 A320, 2 CR7, 1 CRJ. Looking at mid July, goes to 2 x 320, 3 x CR9. Same d
28 Post contains images mtnwest1979 : I probably won't have a better time to throw this on here, so here I go: These are the airlines that I have as serving BOI thru the years as I have li
29 msp747 : I agree that it is great that service to MSP has been beefed up over the years. If you have to connect, it's nice to have that midwest option, and MS
30 Post contains images BoeingGuy : That's a really excellent list. Maybe you can make one for other airports like SJC. I'm not seeing Air Cal on your list. Air Cal or Air California ne
31 surfandsnow : BOI's fortunes will depend on the comeback of its catchment market - in relative terms, of course. Every upgauge, additional/restored frequency, or ne
32 mtnwest1979 : No AirCal never ventures into BOI sevice. Although I did send a letter asking for it lol. They seemed to be more conservative in their post dereg day
33 msp747 : QX actually flew the BOI-GEG route for years, long before WN started service in the mid 90's. I forget how many daily flights they had, but I want to
34 slcdeltarumd11 : Lets remember too southwest used to connect alot of people in SLC especially from BOI it was not o&d filling those flights. They have reduced flig
35 capejet : Does Boise have earthquakes? Tornadoes? Hurricaines? Major snowstorms? Icestorms? When you stop and think about it, Boise is really one of the ideal l
36 ridgid727 : I started my airline career at Pacific Express in BOI. At that time the big carrier in BOI was United. UAL has laways had a very strong FF base in BO
37 RWA380 : My best friends Father has lived in Boise 30+ years and is a million mile flier, they met him at the gate with his plaque. He was on a first name bas
38 slcdeltarumd11 : I would have to think the AS partnership has helped Delta in BOI gain more loyal followers than United. Even the most loyal AS fans probably need DL o
39 RWA380 : I am sure you are correct, at one time though UA was the big game in town, with non-stops to DEN, PDX, PDT, SFO, ORD & SLC at one time or another
40 ridgid727 : Also, remember that prior to QX being sold to AS Air Group, QX was partnershipped with UA. QX operated a lot of feed to BOI (and SLC) for United. Uni
41 RWA380 : Yes I do remember QX in it's infancy days being teamed up with UA, with connections in BOI, GEG, SEA & PDX. This was just after QX and JT merged,
42 Wingtips56 : I happen to have a bad, very dark photo of an Air California 737 at BOI, but it was a SMF-BOI charter with the UC Davis football team for a game at B
43 ridgid727 : I think they acquired Air Oregon in 82, and became a UA codeshare airline in 85 or 86 Back in 86, I was non reving on a QX flight from EUG-PDX, and b
44 RWA380 : So that time frame is more consistent with the QX/CZ merger, UA was pretty big here in the Northwest with routes like PDX-PDT-BOI, PDX-SLE-MFR, PDX-E
45 slcdeltarumd11 : I think Boise has really done nothing wrong its just the exact market that will never regain that level of service unless the population booms or oil
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