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Boise Poised For A Comeback?  
User currently offlineatcgod From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 661 posts, RR: 2
Posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 8232 times:

Sounds like Boise is making a push to add nonstops to SAN and DFW. I've worked here for 6 years and never seen DFW. SAN for a short time but not with AS. It's been a huge decline from 2008. Interesting that WN is still a major player here despite dropping service to RNO, SEA, PDX, and SLC. QX seems eager to fill any drop in service that WN wants to give up. This is an airport that could desperately use some good news.

http://www.idahostatesman.com/2013/0...e-pushes-for-airport-comeback.html

45 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 8068 times:
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American Eagle ran 2x CR7 BOI-DFW June 1,2002 until January 2003.
Odd to me how the post 9/11 year was one of the better at BOI.
QX added SAN SMF DEN ( IIRC on DEN) n/s
F9 started their BOI-DEN flights June 25,2002
GQ statred BOI in MAy 2002 and the MQ DFW on June 1.
Of course, all since ended save for SMF.

As for WN, they have ended every route from BOI that was operated when they took over Morris Air.
I saw a few Expressjet flights from SAN and thought they did ok. I always thought SAN would be a good ad for BOI.

Having been born there and lived there for over 35 years, and worked at BOI for over 14, I have seen many an ebb and flow there.
Guessing 1982 as one peak year, as that was first year that 10 (yes TEN!) carriers flew there simultaneously.
United
Republic
Cascade
Western
Frontier
Wien
Transwestern
Pacific Cal Air
Pacific Express
and Minuteman Aviation
And just before downward slide, in early 2007, BOI had:
United
Alaska
America West
Delta
Southwest
Northwest
SkyWest
Horizon
Big Sky
Salmon Air
Mesa off and on

I think there should be no where but up to go now.Hopefully.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7874 times:

BOI is an interesting market in that it's one of the most isolated cities with a metro population above 500,000+ in the US. Thus air service is more critical to the local economy than in it is in other cities in the rest of the continental United States. While I'm always a little iffy on subsidized air service, Boise is the kind of market where it really makes sense since driving to a nearby larger airport is considerably more impractical. It's not the east coast where you have 15 major airports in a 100 mile radius. Another dynamic in play is that Boiseans from my experience don't seem to travel a whole lot in a down economy. The level which passenger numbers have dropped since the 08 recession is pretty incredible.

But I don't think it's all bad. It used to be Boise was very well, arguably overserved for quite a few years. Now with mergers and fuel prices I think airlines may have cutback to the point where its a little underserved now If I had to guess what the future holds, I think the AA/US merger will result in a BOI-DFW nonstop. The E-175 is a perfect aircraft for the route and while the market isn't really large, I think it could at least support 1x daily in the winter, 2x daily in the summer. I also think a 1x daily BOI-MDW on WN could be a financially viable venture.

[Edited 2013-05-19 21:55:08]

User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 7752 times:
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Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
I also think a 1x daily BOI-MDW on WN could be a financially viable venture.

I agree with that. And with the summer GEG-MDW this year, maybe BOI next year.

When Delta had the n/s to ATL, I was hoping that that would stick around, but alas not to be.

2.6 mill pax in 2012
3.3 mill pax in 2007

I see BOI is real close to Rochester,NY, just as a piece of trivia.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineHiFlyerAS From United States of America, joined Jul 2011, 924 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 7397 times:

I think that the DL hub in SLC is what doomed point-to-point for BOI. Just a short hop to SLC and BOI folks can be pretty much anywhere in the country.

User currently offlineSevensixtyseven From United States of America, joined May 2011, 170 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (1 year 2 months 5 days ago) and read 6091 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):

I drew a strong comparison between BOI to my home city, ABQ. It's a relatively large population in the "middle of nowhere", which makes it impractical to drive elsewhere to fly out, as you said, HOWEVER, over the past few years, the people who have flown out of both cities have been dropping since 2006-2007 by quite an amount, and service has been slashed to both. WN has been cutting and slashing many small-city to small-city markets recently, because they don't make enough money. How does BOI-GEG stick around?



Will that ex-HP 752 get delayed...again?
User currently offlineByrdluvs747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 2348 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5374 times:

I find it odd that a city like BOI can't support mainline(or RJ in AA's case) flights on a route like BOI-LAX, yet is complaining about not having nonstops to everywhere.


The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
User currently offlineAirport From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5281 times:

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 6):

UA flies 2x daily BOI-LAX. That service has been around for a long time. QX ran it 2-3x daily for many years but backed out as it couldn't support two carriers during the recession.


User currently offlinen7371f From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1688 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4608 times:
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Quoting Airport (Reply 7):
QX ran it 2-3x daily for many years but backed out as it couldn't support two carriers during the recession.

I believe the cessation of CRJ-700 service at Horizon played a significant role in the end of BOI-LAX. Q400 on that route is really pushing it, if not doable period.


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4305 times:
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Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Reply 5):
How does BOI-GEG stick around?

I would guess since they are the only ones doing it, plus some thru flights down south (LAS, PHX etc).

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 6):
I find it odd that a city like BOI can't support mainline(or RJ in AA's case) flights on a route like BOI-LAX, yet is complaining about not having nonstops to everywhere.

Maybe because the carriers that are at BOI would rather try to force pax to go thru SLC SFO OAK or LAS, IDK?

At the height, BOI had 2x ONT 2X SAN on XE; 2x LAX on QX; 2x LAX on OO simultaneously. Too much in my mind. Then DL* and AA* weak attempts also. I was somewhat amazed DL* wasn't trying again lol.

As for SAN, I think this could be a route Allegiant could do well in.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineflymia From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 7115 posts, RR: 9
Reply 10, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4301 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 4):
I think that the DL hub in SLC is what doomed point-to-point for BOI. Just a short hop to SLC and BOI folks can be pretty much anywhere in the country.

I think is a major point that and SEA and its a one stop to almost anywhere and a fairly quick 1 stop. How many flights a day are there between BOI-SEA and BOI-SLC?



"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4239 times:
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8 DH4 (QX) to SEA and around 6 to SLC varying CRJ,CR7,CR9,738 ,maybe a sporadic 752 and A319/20 (DL,DL*) at different times.

Added 757.

[Edited 2013-05-20 22:53:09]


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3499 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 4163 times:

Quoting flymia (Reply 10):
I think is a major point that and SEA and its a one stop to almost anywhere and a fairly quick 1 stop. How many flights a day are there between BOI-SEA and BOI-SLC?


Yeah, but BOI-SEA-XXX is backtracking to just about anywhere. I'm sure those connections happen, but passengers originating in Boise surely can't like it. It's an extra hour or so in the wrong way to just about anywhere, If we're going to make the "nearby hub" argument, SLC is the culprit.



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (1 year 2 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 4101 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 1):
Guessing 1982 as one peak year, as that was first year that 10 (yes TEN!) carriers flew there simultaneously.
United
Republic
Cascade
Western
Frontier
Wien
Transwestern
Pacific Cal Air
Pacific Express
and Minuteman Aviation

Don't forget GG, which I do not see a 1982 timetable, but in 1981 GG had 4 n/s cities from BOI to Oregon, Idaho, Nevada and Utah. http://www.departedflights.com/GG070181.html

I love that FL was the only n/s service between BOI-EUG, and that FL served EUG for many years before trying the skies at PDX. http://www.departedflights.com/FL050182.html

At one time QX had a much larger presence. I don't think there has been type QX has flown that didn't see BOI at some point during the service of that aircraft. I've personally flown QX SWM, F27, F28, CRJ, DH8, DH4, DC9, 328's PDX-BOI



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineFrontier14 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 186 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 3913 times:

The DEN - BOI market seems to fluctuate depending on the time of the year. With OX and F9 out of the market you have UA, SW and DL via SLC. With SW not being the low cost carrier it once was, the fares are higher than in the past. What has always seemed lacking on this route has been the lack of tourism advertising in Colorado regarding the outdoor opportunities that also exist in Idaho. I have friends that used to go salmon fishing on the Snake annually, and others who enjoyed the Idaho winter sports options. Can't help but wonder if the state and local tourism would do more pr to nearby states that would help fill some of the BOI seats, Parts of Idaho have lots to offer but maybe, just maybe, the focus is on tourism from California that is at the top of their list.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3757 times:

The disappearing Albertson's brand has had a huge impact on BOI air travel and carriers desire to service the city. Micron Computers and WinCo Foods can't cover what Albertson's did once upon a time for BOI in business traveler numbers.


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently onlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5352 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3665 times:

Over a period covering many years, QX has tried connecting BOI (and GEG) with SAN a couple of times. The most recent service was in 2007/08 and was a result of XE serving the route. QX flew the CR7 on the route at that time.

The DOT figures for SAN-BOI for 2012 show an average PDEW of about 70 O&D. That's a viable number of local pax -- and there would be some connecting pax flying the route as well -- for the right a/c. As has been mentioned, I think the Q400 is not particularly a suitable plane for the route so AS would probably need to set up another OO line with a CRJ flying a daily r/t. (And I could certainly think of some other routes that such a line could also serve...) This idea does not seem too far fetched now given AS's expansion in San Diego these days. Of course I'd love to see it happen!

From the article:

Quote:
Hupp said Delta Airlines is close to adding another flight to Minneapolis. And she said there soon could be nonstop service to Dallas-Fort Worth (American) and San Diego (Alaska).


The usual question applies: is this fact-based or just the typical wishful thinking? It sounds rather optimistic to me.

Also from the article:

Quote:
Airports can resort to more extreme incentives to boost service. One such incentive is guaranteeing that a certain number of seats are filled on new flights, particularly as a way to encourage airlines to add a new nonstop destination.


I'll write this off to journalistic ignorance but unless something has recently changed, no airport can offer seat guarantees; local businesses and local government entities can (and do) offer subsidies of this sort but NOT the airport.

bb


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (1 year 2 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3534 times:
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Quoting RWA380 (Reply 13):
Don't forget GG, which I do not see a 1982 timetable, but in 1981 GG had 4 n/s cities from BOI to Oregon, Idaho, Nevada and Utah. http://www.departedflights.com/GG070181.html

Yes Golden gate started Feb 81 to RNO then added SUN SLC and PDT. But then when they went belly up AUg 81, These were then operated by Swift Aire for about two weeks lol. Then they went out like their co corp GG. I remember a KTVB news story after GG left and WI was here reporter stated "Whether Golden Gate or Swift Aire, they are here to stay." Guess not.....

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 13):
I love that FL was the only n/s service between BOI-EUG, and that FL served EUG for many years before trying the skies at PDX. http://www.departedflights.com/FL050182.html

Hughes Airwest also did a BOI-EUG n/s. Also that it continued to SFO. Guess it was RW's way to compete with UA to SFO form BOI. Not sure if that lasted to RC merger.
Just looked. Was in 9/1980 RW tt, but not in RC 8/82 tt.
Quoting SANFan (Reply 16):
local businesses and local government entities can (and do) offer subsidies of this sort but NOT the airport.

Well Boise Airport is part of the City of Boise, and a mostly stand alone arm of it, so I suppose they would be considered a govt agency that could offer something. I would think anyone with $$ to blow could offer an airline $$ to do anything.

[Edited 2013-05-22 12:11:28]


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineGSPSPOT From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 3007 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3351 times:

Quoting Airport (Reply 2):
It used to be Boise was very well, arguably overserved for quite a few years. Now with mergers and fuel prices I think airlines may have cutback to the point where its a little underserved now

Ever since deregulation in the early 80's, airlines have been "right-sizing". Wonder why they just recently discovered that the BOI market was over-served? Crazy.



Finally made it to an airline mecca!
User currently offlineTWA772LR From United States of America, joined Nov 2011, 1725 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (1 year 2 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

How about a UA IAH-BOI comeback? CO has been on/off for years, but I think a IAH-BOI-DEN-BOI-IAH, or some smaller tag-on, crew routing could work for aircraft and crew scheduling purposes, with a late morning arrival into BOI and a redeye from BOI-IAH. Maybe twice a week could work?


Go coogs! \n//
User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3122 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 17):
Was in 9/1980 RW tt, but not in RC 8/82 tt.

Yes RC started chopping RW routes shortly after the merger was complete. It makes you wonder why these carriers wanted to merge, when in fact very little of the RW network lasted, right up to the RC & NW merger.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlinebobloblaw From United States of America, joined Jan 2012, 1607 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (1 year 2 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3095 times:
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Quoting RWA380 (Reply 20):

I have a 1982 and 1983 OAG and much of the RW and SO network still existed. I think the change in strategy favoring DTW, MEM and MSP happened in 1984. ATL, ORD and PHX were reduced to spokes.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (1 year 2 months 11 hours ago) and read 2922 times:

Quoting bobloblaw (Reply 21):
I have a 1982 and 1983 OAG and much of the RW and SO network still existed. I think the change in strategy favoring DTW, MEM and MSP happened in 1984. ATL, ORD and PHX were reduced to spokes.

You can see by 1982 the cutting had begun, by 1984 a good part of the RW network was gone by 1985 it was all but gone.

RW 09/01/80 - http://www.departedflights.com/RW090180.html

RC 12/01/80 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC120180.html

RC 04/26/81 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC042681.html

RC 06/01/82 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC060182.html

RC 12/15/82 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC121582.html

RC 07/01/83 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC070183.html

RC 06/01/84 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC060184.html

RC 04/28/85 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC060184.html

RC 03/02/86 - http://www.departedflights.com/RC060184.html



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlinemsp747 From United States of America, joined May 2010, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (1 year 2 months 6 hours ago) and read 2840 times:

Quoting HiFlyerAS (Reply 4):
I think that the DL hub in SLC is what doomed point-to-point for BOI. Just a short hop to SLC and BOI folks can be pretty much anywhere in the country.

The SLC hub has been there since the WA days. For years, it was the only option for people flying DL out of BOI. I think what changed was when DL took over NW, they scaled back MSP flights dramatically. NW was three flights daily on A320s. After the merger, it was back to 2 flights and had become a regional jet route with the occasional 738 on it. Kind of forces travelers to use SLC. I know there were several occasions where it cost me significantly less to connect through SLC than take the direct between MSP and BOI


User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (1 year 2 months 1 hour ago) and read 2751 times:
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Quoting msp747 (Reply 23):
The SLC hub has been there since the WA days. For years, it was the only option for people flying DL out of BOI. I think what changed was when DL took over NW, they scaled back MSP flights dramatically. NW was three flights daily on A320s. After the merger, it was back to 2 flights and had become a regional jet route with the occasional 738 on it. Kind of forces travelers to use SLC. I know there were several occasions where it cost me significantly less to connect through SLC than take the direct between MSP and BOI


But this summer there will be 4x BOI-MSP, 2 mainline and 2 connection. Seems as the SLC has been cut back as of late. When MSP was 2x rj, SLC was 7 or 8 mix f rj/mainline. But will be about 5 or so when MSP is 4, so they seem to be evening it out a bit.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineUSAIRWAYS321 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1845 posts, RR: 9
Reply 25, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2750 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 15):
The disappearing Albertson's brand has had a huge impact on BOI air travel and carriers desire to service the city. Micron Computers and WinCo Foods can't cover what Albertson's did once upon a time for BOI in business traveler numbers.

Albertson's has recently (through a series of transactions) reconsolidated all stores under a single parent company which is once again headquartered in Boise.


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4028 posts, RR: 11
Reply 26, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 2520 times:

Quoting USAIRWAYS321 (Reply 25):
Albertson's has recently (through a series of transactions) reconsolidated all stores under a single parent company which is once again headquartered in Boise.

But it isn't where it was back in the 1990s, and doubtful it will ever be.

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 24):
But this summer there will be 4x BOI-MSP, 2 mainline and 2 connection. Seems as the SLC has been cut back as of late. When MSP was 2x rj, SLC was 7 or 8 mix f rj/mainline. But will be about 5 or so when MSP is 4, so they seem to be evening it out a bit.

MSP is a much better East/West hub airport for DL than SLC, and it will be interesting to watch if it eclipses SLC for top passenger load city pairs.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 27, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2415 times:
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In June DL will have 5/day BOI-SLC ( at least the day I looked at). 1 738, 1 A320, 2 CR7, 1 CRJ. Looking at mid July, goes to 2 x 320, 3 x CR9.

Same day in July is 2x 320 2x E175 to MSP.

Sure beats the 2x DC9S NW started BOI service with in '94 (?). At the time NW was ground handled by DL. Minor irony I guess ( really just lowest bidder lol).

As for the business community:
Also, I agree that Albertsons will never rival what it was at its zenith. Also at the time, Micron actually did production and manufacturing at Boise, as well as r & d. Now, only the latter is true.

I think maybe the next big thing at BOI would be someone trying a BOI-Mexico n/s not aimed solely at tourists ( as attempted in mid 90s). Perhaps 2x/week or something light. With the increase in Latino population over the last couple of decades ( and longer) there might be a potential at this market. But not soon but perhaps someday. Anyone going to Mexico can surely be accommodated thru LAS LAX SFO PHX easily enough. But maybe someday.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 28, posted (1 year 1 month 4 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 2386 times:
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I probably won't have a better time to throw this on here, so here I go:

These are the airlines that I have as serving BOI thru the years as I have listed on a graph I have put together on paper.
So bear with me if it bores you  .

United April 1926-current (via Varney and then United)
Hughes Airwest ( and AirWest, West Coast, Empire, Zimmerly) until Oct 1980 (then Republic)
Republic Oct 1980 until April 1983
Frontier 7/79-8/86
Minuteman Aviation summer 1982
Continental 6/83-9/83, 11/86-9/88
CO Express 7/04-9/06
Wien 9/81-11/84
Pacific Express 3/82-2/84
Sunworld 9/87-1/88
Alaska 11/84-1/93; 6/03-4/08
PSA 12/85-9/86
America West 10/88-2/91; 3/00-9/07 merger with US
US Airways 9/07-current
HP Express/Mesa 10/01-6/03; 8/04-?
Western 5/82-4/87
Delta 4/87-current
Morris Air 9/92-10/94
Southwest 10/94-current
NPA UA Express 3/89-mid 90. Became all westAir
Northwest 5/94-DL merger
Air Wisconsin UA Exp 5/98-6/00
Air Ketchum 4/99-10/99
SkyWest 12/83-6/84; 3/88-current
Cascade 79-9/85
Horizon 6/83-current
Big Sky 1979, 5/02-1/08
American Eagle 6/02-1/03; 4/11-1/12 Both times service ended 1/31 iirc
Frontier/Frontier Jet Exp 6/02-9/11
Air Oregon 4/79-1/80; 6/81-9/81
Golden Gate 2/81-8/81
Swift Aire 8,9/81
Key Airlines -79
Transwestern 12/81-9/83 taken over by QX
Mountain West 2/79-2/81
Empire 1/83-6/95
Gem State 12/78-12/79
Pacific Cal Air 6/82-10/82
Salmon Air (sched) 7/02-9/07
McCall Air (to MYL SZT BFI) 6/04-10/04
Allegiant Air 10/12-current
ExpressJet (branded) 4/07-9/08
SeaPort 7/11-12/11
Air Northwest 3/93-late 93 flew Navajos BOI-Elko-BAttle Mtn-Winnemucca-Reno 3x week
Eagle Air late summer 83. Flew Navajo BOI-TWF 1x day. Utilized old SkyWest counter when they were around.
plus Mesaba, Compass, Republic, GoJet, Lynx, Pinnacle for their partners.
And other small carriers (TransMagic, etc) pre 1979.

[Edited 2013-05-27 00:16:45]


"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinemsp747 From United States of America, joined May 2010, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 29, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 2162 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 27):
Sure beats the 2x DC9S NW started BOI service with in '94 (?). At the time NW was ground handled by DL. Minor irony I guess ( really just lowest bidder lol).

I agree that it is great that service to MSP has been beefed up over the years. If you have to connect, it's nice to have that midwest option, and MSP is a great place to connect. The only problem with SLC is if you are trying to get to a smaller city in the midwest or the east which requires another stop. MSP helps you avoid that. I hope that DL keeps both cities a solid option for travelers, which up until this point, they have. If there is something BOI needs to strengthen, it is California connections


User currently offlineBoeingGuy From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 2973 posts, RR: 7
Reply 30, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 2087 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 28):
These are the airlines that I have as serving BOI thru the years as I have listed on a graph I have put together on paper.
So bear with me if it bores you .

That's a really excellent list. Maybe you can make one for other airports like SJC.  

I'm not seeing Air Cal on your list. Air Cal or Air California never served BOI in post-intrastate airline days? I see PSA served BOI for a very short time.


User currently offlinesurfandsnow From United States of America, joined Jan 2009, 2846 posts, RR: 30
Reply 31, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2019 times:

BOI's fortunes will depend on the comeback of its catchment market - in relative terms, of course. Every upgauge, additional/restored frequency, or new/resumed service has an opportunity cost: the airline could be using those resources for service to other markets. Boise could be doing quite well economically, but still not make a comeback because airlines can allocate their scarce capacity to other markets that are doing even better.

Quoting atcgod (Thread starter):
Sounds like Boise is making a push to add nonstops to SAN and DFW.

Both markets make sense, and have been attractive enough for airlines to try in the recent past. SAN pretty much has to rely on O&D, although AS could probably get a few connections like Hawaii or Mexico if the flights were timed right. DFW opens up quite a few unique one-stop connections that aren't available through the likes of DEN/LAS/MSP/ORD/PHX/SLC, and Texas is doing very well economically these days, so I'd say this would be the more likely of the two. Probably a great mission for the new E-175 or A319...

Quoting atcgod (Thread starter):
Interesting that WN is still a major player here despite dropping service to RNO, SEA, PDX, and SLC.

WN has been focusing on longer haul stuff with greater O&D - I doubt too many folks miss the nonstop option to RNO when they can fly nonstop to LAS. They were at a competitive disadvantage when it came to PDX/SEA/SLC, given that the hub carrier in each market benefits from local FF loyalty and much greater connectivity. I'm sure many folks in Boise appreciate the superior eastbound connectivity that the WN nonstops to DEN/LAS/PHX provide versus the options the airline gave them back in the 90s and early 2000s. I'm shocked that WN still flies BOI-GEG, I wouldn't be surprised to see that cut in the next year or so. On the other hand, now that WN is willing to try MDW-GEG, I wouldn't put it past them to try MDW-BOI either. Nonstops to DEN, LAS, MDW, OAK, and PHX would provide seamless access to the entire network.


Quoting atcgod (Thread starter):
QX seems eager to fill any drop in service that WN wants to give up.

Actually, QX seems to be consolidating its focus on the AS hub markets and focus cities. 10 years ago, if WN dropped BOI-RNO or BOI-GEG I would have expected QX to fill the void. That was when BOI was somewhat of a focus city for QX. Today, I think BOI-SAN is a possibility, but only because AS/QX have targeted growth efforts at SAN, looking at unserved/underserved niche market opportunities from there (FAT, LIH, MCO, MRY, PVR, etc.). BOI fits the bill if you think about it.

Quoting atcgod (Thread starter):
This is an airport that could desperately use some good news.

Well, G4 deemed it worthy of a nonstop link to Hawaii, and AA selected it as part of its regional LAX expansion strategy. Clearly the airlines see opportunity at BOI. However, the failure of AA's LAX-BOI, complete withdrawal of mainline AS and F9 from the market, and uncertainty over the future of G4's BOI-HNL make me wonder just how strong of a market BOI actually is. The good news is that the AA/US merger puts BOI back on the AA route map. Then again, with the viability of the PHX hub in doubt, who knows what the future of AA/US at BOI may be. I don't see F9 coming back, it's probably too small of a market for NK, and there's no way it's on the radar for B6 or VX. Best bet they keep working with existing airline partners to build upon their BOI presence any way they can.



Flying in the middle seat of coach is much better than not flying at all!
User currently offlinemtnwest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2426 posts, RR: 1
Reply 32, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 1947 times:
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Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 30):
I'm not seeing Air Cal on your list. Air Cal or Air California never served BOI in post-intrastate airline days? I see PSA served BOI for a very short time.

No AirCal never ventures into BOI sevice. Although I did send a letter asking for it lol. They seemed to be more conservative in their post dereg days than PSA. But the end result for both was the same.

As for BOI-GEG, I think since WN is only option, maybe that's why it still maintains. Also, if there were no BOI-ORD on UA*, I think WN may have tried a BOI-MDW n/s as well.

Next route cuts I would guess in NW are SEA-SLC and ABQ. Just a guess though.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlinemsp747 From United States of America, joined May 2010, 305 posts, RR: 0
Reply 33, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 1899 times:

Quoting surfandsnow (Reply 31):
10 years ago, if WN dropped BOI-RNO or BOI-GEG I would have expected QX to fill the void.

QX actually flew the BOI-GEG route for years, long before WN started service in the mid 90's. I forget how many daily flights they had, but I want to say it was almost hourly. It was by far the best option for me when I was in college. Then again, that was when QX flew Q200's and Metroliners, so I'm sure it was much easier to fill the plane back in those days. I guess there just isn't enough demand with Q400's, especially when you're competing against WN. But I was still stunned when I heard they dropped the route


User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 34, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1799 times:

Lets remember too southwest used to connect alot of people in SLC especially from BOI it was not o&d filling those flights. They have reduced flights alot at SLC and moved that connection traffic thru DEN now.

Lower fuel costs made more routes possible for BOI. Also Southwest used to have more interest in point to point routes in smaller markets. I don't think BOI can turn back the clock. Also look at all the consolidation that has happened in the industry alot of medium markets have lost service in the same time.

I am pretty sure DL has the largest and most valuable FF base of elites in the BOI market too. No reason for them to do anything but continue to offer one stop options at any time of day.


User currently offlinecapejet From United States of America, joined Sep 2012, 72 posts, RR: 0
Reply 35, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 1781 times:
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Does Boise have earthquakes? Tornadoes? Hurricaines? Major snowstorms? Icestorms? When you stop and think about it, Boise is really one of the ideal locations in the country for a company to have an operation and not have to worry about major disruptions due to Mother Nature. At least compared to a lot of places in states like CA, OK, TX, FL, NJ, MA etc.

[Edited 2013-05-28 18:51:09]

User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 36, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 1730 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 34):
I am pretty sure DL has the largest and most valuable FF base of elites in the BOI market too. No reason for them to do anything but continue to offer one stop options at any time of day.

I started my airline career at Pacific Express in BOI. At that time the big carrier in BOI was United. UAL has laways had a very strong FF base in BOI, although it may have been diluted with DL, and AS has always had a very strong base as well.


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 37, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1709 times:

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 36):
UAL has laways had a very strong FF base in BOI,

My best friends Father has lived in Boise 30+ years and is a million mile flier, they met him at the gate with his plaque. He was on a first name basis with the entire BOI UA customer service staff. His buddies were also very loyal UA fliers.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 38, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 1697 times:

I would have to think the AS partnership has helped Delta in BOI gain more loyal followers than United. Even the most loyal AS fans probably need DL occassionally in BOI. SEA is way too far out of the way and DL opens up more cities and many more realistic connections unless you are headed to the pacific northwest.

User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 39, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 1673 times:

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 38):
I would have to think the AS partnership has helped Delta in BOI gain more loyal followers than United.

I am sure you are correct, at one time though UA was the big game in town, with non-stops to DEN, PDX, PDT, SFO, ORD & SLC at one time or another. UA has really retreated over the years in the Pacific Northwest, leaving any local flying to an aging fleet of OO EMB-120's. I expect that today's BOI based travelers fly AS/QX or DL with reciprocal agreements in each others loyalty programs it makes that decision pretty easy, and with DL & AS/QX providing a fair part of the lift out of BOI.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 40, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 1536 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 39):
am sure you are correct, at one time though UA was the big game in town, with non-stops to DEN, PDX, PDT, SFO, ORD & SLC at one time or another

Also, remember that prior to QX being sold to AS Air Group, QX was partnershipped with UA. QX operated a lot of feed to BOI (and SLC) for United. United even had a partnership desk at the Sun Valley Co Inn in Sun Valley at that time, along with a city ticket office in downtown BOI


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 41, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 1463 times:

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 40):

Also, remember that prior to QX being sold to AS Air Group, QX was partnershipped with UA. QX operated a lot of feed to BOI (and SLC) for United. United even had a partnership desk at the Sun Valley Co Inn in Sun Valley at that time, along with a city ticket office in downtown BOI

Yes I do remember QX in it's infancy days being teamed up with UA, with connections in BOI, GEG, SEA & PDX. This was just after QX and JT merged, or was it QX & CZ? UA had a nice downtown ticket office here in Portland, on SW 6th Ave.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently onlineWingtips56 From United States of America, joined Dec 2010, 353 posts, RR: 0
Reply 42, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1453 times:

Quoting mtnwest1979 (Reply 32):
No AirCal never ventures into BOI sevice. Although I did send a letter asking for it lol. They seemed to be more conservative in their post dereg days than PSA. But the end result for both was the same.

I happen to have a bad, very dark photo of an Air California 737 at BOI, but it was a SMF-BOI charter with the UC Davis football team for a game at Boise State....somewhere between 1975 and 1977. (I was with the Aggie Band meeting the flight. We were relegated to getting there on a bus.) Who knew then that I would later end up working for OC.



Worked for WestAir, Apollo Airways, Desert Pacific, Western, AirCal and American Airlines
User currently offlineridgid727 From United States of America, joined Jul 2008, 1108 posts, RR: 0
Reply 43, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 18 hours ago) and read 1449 times:

Quoting RWA380 (Reply 41):

Yes I do remember QX in it's infancy days being teamed up with UA, with connections in BOI, GEG, SEA & PDX. This was just after QX and JT merged, or was it QX & CZ? UA had a nice downtown ticket office here in Portland, on SW 6th Ave.

I think they acquired Air Oregon in 82, and became a UA codeshare airline in 85 or 86

Back in 86, I was non reving on a QX flight from EUG-PDX, and believe it or not, we were hijacked by a deranged guy. It was a Metroliner.

They also had a Metro crash in TWF on a training flight in about 87


User currently offlineRWA380 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 3114 posts, RR: 5
Reply 44, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 1321 times:

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 43):
I think they acquired Air Oregon in 82, and became a UA codeshare airline in 85 or 86

So that time frame is more consistent with the QX/CZ merger, UA was pretty big here in the Northwest with routes like PDX-PDT-BOI, PDX-SLE-MFR, PDX-EUG-MFR up until the early 80's.

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 43):
Back in 86, I was non reving on a QX flight from EUG-PDX, and believe it or not, we were hijacked by a deranged guy. It was a Metroliner.

OMG, I can't even imagine what a horrific experience that was, I was never a fan of the SWM and as I went to college in EUG and my folks lived in PDX at the time, I flew AA mostly on 727s then M80s as their fares were around $20-25 o/w, but my GFs Dad owned KMJK radio here in Portland and they traded advertising space for QX passes, so we flew to PDX a lot with QX, one had to try pretty hard to miss flying the SWM on that route, those SWMs came from JT, QX started with those awesome F-27s with great viewing with those over sized windows, on an over wing aircraft

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 43):
They also had a Metro crash in TWF on a training flight in about 87

I did not know that happened, or maybe I forgot, but it does sound vaguely familiar somehow, I moved from Oregon to LA in 1987, so I may not have been paying attention to the outside world for a bit.



AA-AC-AQ-AS-BN-BD-CO-CS-DL-EA-EZ-HA-HP-KL-KN-MP-MW-NK-NW-OO-OZ-PA-PS-QX-RC-RH-RW-SA-TG-TW-UA-US-VS-WA-WC-WN
User currently offlineslcdeltarumd11 From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 3347 posts, RR: 0
Reply 45, posted (1 year 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 1259 times:

I think Boise has really done nothing wrong its just the exact market that will never regain that level of service unless the population booms or oil crashes again.

Fuel prices are too high, and all the airlines even southwest seem to rolling to focus cities/ large hubs only flying. Even southwest the real king of these west o&d routes seems to just want to shift the majority out west to lax, oak, las, phx, and DEN now. Fuel prices and consolodation no longer leave room for some routes that once were possible and successful.


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